Artificial Raising of Discus

[LizStreithorst]

I don't want to say this on my Discus forum right now, so I will say it here. The new big thing in Discus is artificial raising of fry..  Someone has figured out a way to do it that is not as much work as it used to be. 

It's not like we don't already have enough people cranking out junk.  Soon we will have more of them.  It is driving nuts!

Sorry

[Jo]

Oh to me that would take all the fun out of it. The whole reason I ever wanted discus was how well they care for the babies. Me and hubby have watched I don't even know how many videos of people's discus pairs with their fry.

[LizStreithorst]

That's the way I feel.  It takes away from the most wonderful thing about the fish.  I can see it being done in the hands of a master breeder, but for every Discus person in the States to be able to do it will only bring harm.  We will see the results over the next few years.  I'm hoping that this is nothing but a silly fad.

Just what we all need, an abundance of of poor quality Discus

[Jo]

You have breeding pairs don't you? I was thinking I've read that and you got to see it in your own tank! Maybe it will be a fad.

[Mugwump]

I don't believe enough is known about Discus genetics to make mass artificial hatching viable. Some breeders, like Liz says, will crank out the fry...but the first signs of overuse of this technique will be quality....size, qualty, vigor will be diminished and true discus hobbyists will notice it in a heart beat. I can tell angels from a good breeder vs a 'sport' breeder easily.....size/shape/vigor by a certain age reflect it....just breeding(manufacturing) fry to market without the proper techniques such as out crossing,etc..will soon crap a line/breeder out...the fry/product will reflect it too...

That's why I promote folks to seek good breeders for their hatchery stock,

[LizStreithorst]

It will all work out.  It always does.  Quality will suffer for a while and many prospective Discus keepers who want Discus cheap will get their wish.  I shouldn't let it bother me.

[P4Angels]

I hear yah!!! We have the same problem with angels.   Until everyone is educated there is no stopping it.

[b125killer]

How do they artificial raise the fry? If you pull a angelfish spawn and put them in a different tank isn't that artificially raising them?

[BillT]

Seems to me that the problems of poor genetic quality and the artificial raising of fry are different issues.
Poor quality stock due to poor breeding decisions will affect the fish's genetics.
The artificial raising of a spawn (if done well) could result in fish with either good or poor genetics depending on the genetics of the fish bred, unless the technique of artificial raising of the fry results in messed up fish due to poor nutrition, water quality, or perhaps something else.

[Mugwump]

Think 'puppy mills'........overbreeding of random/selected genetics and then line breeding good/bad until the line implodes into rubbish...not all hobbyists will do this but an unwary or uneducated person could knowingly/unknowingly produce low qualty stock and pass it on to...
to the detriment of the genotype......extreme yes, but if repeated again and again, it's bad news...

[LizStreithorst]

It's a little different with Discus.  Discus babies can't survive their first several days without eating the slime that their parents produce on their bodies.  Their mouths are too tiny for even the smallest live food.  With artificial people would raise them in bowls and feed them an egg yoke mix of some kind.  Keeping water quality high was a huge issue.  This new way, it's easier.

I suppose it doesn't matter.  Judging by the gazillions of cones Barb sells, everyone and his brother is already breeding Discus.  Funny, very few of them offer fry for sale.  I have a feeling that the only one who will make money from this new invention is the guy who invented it. 

[Barb]

True Liz.  For the number of cones I have sold in the last 3 years you would think that even Walmart would be offering Discus in their tanks next to feeder goldfish!  Should be so many discus being produced...but we don't see/hear about that many do we?
Barb

[BallAquatics]

Many people want to spawn their fish, but few want to put forth the effort required to raise quality fry.  Thankfully, with most fish, it's a little more involved than just putting male & female together.  IMO this is what keeps fish breeding from the 'puppy mill' status - any idiot can breed dogs, and that's the problem.

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

Very well said, Dennis. 

I could really go on a rant about puppy mills back yard breeders.  I'm a groomer.  Oh the abominations I see. 

[Mugwump]

I guess my 'puppy mill' comment was stretching it a bit....but it did get my opinion on it out....I don't like gargage breeders of anything....