Don't say fish can't feel pain!

[BallAquatics]

Mainstream press is currently awash with declarations that are sending out a potentially destructive message to the cause of welfare in fish. Nathan Hill highlights the dangers to fish from journalists misrepresenting scientific reviews.  Found this interesting article on the PFK web site...

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5437&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=January_18_2013&utm_term=Dont_say_fish_cant_feel_pain!&utm_content=html

Dennis

[Mugwump]

And the argument will continue on, still.....

[BillT]

Oh I think you got me going with this one.

I have been interested in this issue for many years. In 2010 I organized a series of fish talks at an animal care meeting. One speaker (Stephen Smith, Va Tech, Blacksburg, VA) gave a talk reviewing this subject. This subject is relevant to fish care in labs because of regulations about minimizing animal pain and distress and it therefore has actual consequences in how things are done.

Rose is the major proponent of fish's not experiencing pain (in a conscious manner). This had seemed to me more of an argument about the consciousness of fish than anything else, which gets into what I consider unanswerable philosophical questions of what animals (or other people for that matter) have consciousness. For example, prove to me you are conscious and not some automaton with a complex set programmed responses. The Turing test (created to determine of a machine can think) just ignores the philosophical questions and says if you can not tell if a computer is not a person through conversational exchanges via keyboard and screen, then the computer can think. I would argue that if you accept the Turing test approach, to be consistent, you would have to accept the existence of consciousness in anything displaying certain behaviors. If not, you would have to question the consciousness of other humans.

Another part of Rose's argument is that fish lack the neurological structures in the forebrain (such as a well developed neocortex) to experience the felling of pain as opposed to noxious stimuli. In the many gradations of brain structure found in vertebrates (such as reptiles and birds) however it is not clear where he would draw this line.

However Smith's review went into a lot of recent studies I had not heard of before. Many of these came down to showing a difference in the fish's behavior to a noxious stimuli (like a painful injection) when they are given analgesics like morphine. The morphine treated fish either were not motivated to avoid a painful situation or did not display the cowering behavior of those that got only a placebo rather than the morphine. These are quite convincing arguments to me and are not usually cited in Rose's reviews.

Here is his reference list(unfortunately most will be only found in research libraries such as in a university science department):

General References:
Ashley PJ, Sneddon LU, McCrohan CR. 2007. Nociception in fish: Stimulus-response properties of receptors on the head of trout Oncorhynchus mykiss. Brain Res 1166:47-54. 
 
Chandroo KP, Yue S, Moccia RD. 2004. An evaluation of current perspectives on consciousness and pain in fishes. Fish Fisheries 5:281-295.   

Davis MR, Mylniczenko N, Storms T, Raymond F, Dunn JL. 2006. Evaluation of intramuscular ketoprofen and butorphanol as analgesics in chain dogfish (Scyliorhinus retifer). Zoo Biology 25:491?500.   

Dunlop R, Laming P. 2005. Mechanoreceptive and nociceptive responses in the central nervous system of goldfish (Carassius auratus) and trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss). J Pain 6:561-568. 

Ehrensing RH, Michell GF, Kastin AJ. 1982. Similar antagonism of morphine analgesia by MIF-1 and naxolone in Carassius auratus. Pharmacol Biochem Behav 17:757-761. 

Gregory N. 1999a. Do fish feel pain? ANZCCART News 12(4):1-3. 

Gregory N. 1999b. Can fish experience pain? Surveillance 26(3):8-10.

Harms CA, Lewbart GA, Swanson CR, Kishimori JM, Boylan SM. 2005. Behavioral and clinical pathology changes in koi carp (Cyprinus carpio) subjected to anesthesia and surgery with and without intra-operative analgesics. Comp Med 55:221-226. 
Ishikowa Y. 1994. Innervation of lateral line system in the medaka, Oryzias latipes. Fish Biology 6:17-26. IASP [International Association for the Study of Pain]. 1979. Pain terms: A list with definitions and notes on usage. Pain 6:249-252. 

Neiffer DL, Stamper MA. 2009. Fish sedation, anesthesia, analgesia, and euthanasia: Considerations, methods, and types of drugs. ILAR J 50:343-360. 

Nordgreeen J, Garnerb JP, Janczakc AM, Ranheima B, Muir WM, Horsbergt TE. 2009. Thermonociception in fish: Effects of two different doses of morphine on thermal threshold and post-test behaviour in goldfish (Carassius auratus). Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci. 119:101-107.

Reilly SC, Quinn JP, Cossins AR, Sneddon LU. 2008. Novel candidate genes identified in the brain during nociception in common carp. Neuro Sci Lett 437:135-138.

Rose JD. 2002. The neurobehavioral nature of fishes and the question of awareness and pain. Rev Fish Sci 10:1-38. Rose JD. 2007. Anthropomorphism and ?mental welfare? of fishes. Dis Aquat Org. 75: 139?154.

Sneddon LU. 2002. Anatomical and electrophysiological analysis of the trigeminal nerve in a teleost fish, Oncorhynchus mykiss. Neurosci Lett 319:167-171.

Sneddon LU. 2003a. Trigeminal somatosensory innervation of the head of a teleost fish with particular reference to nociception. Brain Res 972:44-52.

Sneddon LU. 2003b. The evidence for pain in fish: The use of morphine as an analgesic. Appl Anim Behav Sci 8:153-162.
Sneddon LU, Braithwaite VA, Gentle MJ. 2003c. Do fishes have nociceptors? Evidence for the evolution of a vertebrate sensory system. Proc R Soc Lond B Biol Sci 270:1115-1121.

Sneddon LU. 2006. Ethics and welfare: Pain perception in fish. Bull Eur Assoc Fish Path 26:6-10.

Sneddon LU. 2009. Pain perception in fish: Indicators and endpoints. ILAR J 50:338-342. 

Fish Pain References:
Alvarez FA, Rodriguez-Martin I, Gonzalez-Nunez V, Fern?ndez de Velasco EM, Sarmiento RG, Rodr?guez RE. 2006. New kappa opioid receptor from zebrafish Danio rerio. Neurosci Lett 405:94-99. 

Barrallo A, Gonzalez-Sarmiento R, Alvar F, Rodr?guez RE. 2000. Zfor2, a new opioid receptor-like gene from the teleost zebrafish (Danio rerio). Brain Res Mol Brain Res 84:1-6. 

Gonzalez-Nunez V, Gonzalez-Sarmiento R, Rodr?guez RE. 2003. Characterization of zebrafish proenkephalin reveals novel opioid sequences. Brain Res Mol Brain Res 114:31-39. 

Gonzalez-Nunez V, Barrallo A, Traynor JR, Rodr?guez RE. 2006. Characterization of opioid-binding sites in zebrafish brain. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 316:900-904. 

Gonzalez-Nunez V, Rodr?guez RE. 2009. The zebrafish: A model to study the endogenous mechanisms of pain. ILAR J 50:373-386. 

Langheinrich U. 2003. Zebrafish: a new model on the pharmaceutical catwalk. BioEssays 25:904?912 

Marron Fernandez de Velasco E, Law PY, Rodr?guez RE. 2009. Mu opioid receptor from the zebrafish exhibits functional characteristics as those of mammalian μ-opioid receptor. Zebrafish 6(3): 259-268. 

Pinal-Seoane N, Martin IR, Gonzalez-Nunez V, de Velasco EM, Alvarez FA, Sarmiento RG, Rodr?guez RE. 2006. Characterization of a new duplicate delta-opioid receptor from zebrafish. J Mol Endocrinol 37:391-403. 

Porteros A, Garc?a-Isidoro M, Barrallo A, Gonz?lez-Sarmiento R, Rodr?guez RE. 1999. Expression of ZFOR1, a δ-opioid receptor, in the central nervous system of the zebrafish (Danio rerio). J Comp Neurol 412:429-438. 

Rodr?guez RE, Barrallo A, Garcia-Malvar F, McFadyen IJ, Gonzalez- Sarmiento R, Traynor JR. 2000. Characterization of ZFOR1, a putative delta-opioid receptor from the teleost zebrafish (Danio rerio). Neurosci Lett 288:207-210. 

Sanchez-Simon FM, Rodr?guez RE. 2008. Developmental expression and distribution of opioid receptors in zebrafish. Neuroscience 151:129- 137. 

[PaulineMi]

It's simple:

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" ~Gandhi (1869-1948)

[BallAquatics]

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" ~Gandhi (1869-1948)

We are in dire straits then aren't we.....

I should add that I DO NOT support the above programs as they do nothing to fix the problem!  If they were seeking funds to create laws to prevent the bozo's in this world from being pet owners, I would probably donate.

Dennis

[Frank The Plumber]

If saying that other life feels no pain is the story one must tell themselves to get through the day, hey, great. I'm not buying into that line though. Regardless of what the other life feels, it still deserves the respect it is due for existing as a fellow traveler. If it must pass to the next place by my hand I shall send it there only for good cause and as swiftly and painlessly as is possible. I hope that the Great Mother takes this into account when my passage time comes. I can not request that which I do not entitle another. I hope She squishes me fast and hard rather than let me languish.

[b125killer]

I do think they feel pain. Just from watching them I can tell when something isn't right with my fish. I try hard to make sure there thriving and when I have to I will put one down in a quick and humane manner. Frank has it absolutely right.

[Mir]

Very interesting references! ...I love your post, Frank!

Just in the past week, in my government class, we are having mock congress, and I proposed a bill that has to do with restricting the sale of fish bowls, and it already passed Committee and is headed to the Senate for debate! Yay! It's good that some people actually do care and acknowledge that fish have feelings just like any other animals!

[PaulineMi]

And what about crustaceans ......

http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/evidence-mounts-that-shellfish-feel-pain-130116.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DiscoveryNews-Autos-News+%28Discovery+News+-+Autos+News%29#mkcpgn=rssnws1

[b125killer]

I think what Frank said about this matter says it all.