Something for Mr. Spock

[LizStreithorst]

I know you don't give a flip about Discus, Dennis but I thought you might enjoy this discussion anyway.  I sure did.  http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?99492-Contest-fish-some-thoughts

[BallAquatics]

Thanks Liz.  Very interesting indeed.  I listened to a talk show with Hans Discus where he was against the use of UV.  His opinion was that it's just like the over use of anti-bacteria substances and leads to immune system problems and weaker fish down the road.

The barley straw discussion was very interesting too.  I like this type of natural approach.  I've started using leaf litter in my tanks several years back and they bring many of the same benefits.  When Rusty Wessel was up for a talk the last time, I couldn't help but notice the vast amounts of leaf litter in most of the areas they were collecting fish.  As we pat ourselves on the back for finding modern solutions, if we just look about, we often find that nature has already solved the problem.  Like Professor Malcolm states, "Life finds a way."  I guess that's why I like natural solutions to aquatic problems.....

Dennis

[BillT]

Info on using barley straw to control algae in ponds:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/153/Barley-Straw

[Mugwump]

Info on using barley straw to control algae in ponds:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/pages/full_width/153/Barley-Straw

Cool, it'd be good for an outside pond too then....

[LizStreithorst]

Given that I'm talking about Discus breeding and tank rearing tanks, I can't see leaf debris working.  We do all these huge WCs every day.  The leaf debris made a holy mess in the tank when I tried it before.  I was siphoning with gravity back then.  Now that I'm using a pump, the crap would clog the pump.  I could use a media bag, but with large daily (often twice daily with fry) I can't see the leaves even having a chance to do their job.

I'm leaning toward UV.  Only for my 2 40 gallon breeding tanks.  I can keep a large spawn in that size tank until they are 3 weeks old.  Longer if the spawn is smaller.  After that they had better have enough strength do deal with the occasional pathogen on their own.  I'm still mulling.  It will be a while before I have to decide.

[BallAquatics]

I do large daily water changes on fry tank too, but they are smaller tanks I guess.  I still gravity everything.  I can get multiple tanks draining and move along at a pretty good pace.  I notice my fry feeding from the slime and micro-fauna that grows on the leaves.  Plus any medicinal properties that they may be releasing into the water.

I guess I'm just old fashioned..... no fancy stuff in my fish room.

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

This is a hard mull.  My heart leans your way, Dennis.  The thought of all the fish shit under the leaves grosses a Discus person out.  Perhaps I'll put a UV on one tank and leaf litter in another and put a pair in both tanks.  That's the only way I'll be able to figure out the best way.

I'll tell you an interesting story...About 5 years ago I was feeding the Discus some red wigglers from my culture.  I had 3 day old Discus fry in a 60 gallon with their parents.  I got a wild hair and thought, "why not throw some of the stuff the worms are living in to their tank?"  God only knows why I thought to do that, but I did it.  The worm dirt consisted of normal dirt, lots of semi rotted horse poo, vegetable scraps and egg shells.  Guess what?  The little babies left the sides of their parents and went to the bottom to graze on the worm dirt.  It blew me away!  I took a pic, but I don't know if I still have it.  I posted it once on Simply but I can't bother trying to find it.

[BallAquatics]

I can see where leaves might not be a viable option given the fish you are keeping.  You have very different set-ups from what I'm doing here.  If it's just the 4 week syndrome you're worrying about, I'd probably go with the UV too.  I don't see where running the UV system for a month or so on a fry tank would cause problems.  If memory serves, Hans was talking about fish keepers who run UV all the time.  I know many central filtration systems boast about using UV to prevent the spread of disease, but they neglect to mention the long term side effects on fish living in a sterile environment.

If it's the 4 week syndrome, perhaps your could run the UV from week 2 through week 6 and problem solved without introducing negative side-effects from the first problem solution.  In all honesty, this is exactly the kind of problem that has lead me to adopt a mostly natural fish room.  If you read about this problem and that problem, you soon begin to wonder how on earth did these fish managed to reproduce for the past million years without our help.  A great deal of my success with fish has been that less is often more.....

You're a bright and capable gal, I'm sure you will find a solution that works best for you.   

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

I actually once believed that 4 week syndrome some made up term for the babies not doing well due to lack of correct care   I never had a problem with it.  But over time I've learned that the 3 to 4 week period is a difficult time for Discus babies.   Surely healthy adult Discus, even ones that have been "cleaned up" carry parasites that don't bother them so we don't notice them.  A baby Discus in the 3 to 4 week range might be severely set back by them.  No matter how much water we change a fish tank is not the same as a pristine river.  I'm going to go with the UV.  I will also get some fat lady's pantyhose and make a media bag out of it.  I will fill it with peat and stick it in my RO container.  I've used peat before.  The fish like it. 

I probably should do the same with my 250 gallon tap water storage containers, but that is easier said than done.  If you could see my set up you would understand.  It would require a carpenter and a plumber.  I can do both things a little, but nothing more than basic stuff.  I had a poor upbringing.  My parents always just called repair people