Please click on this thread and look at the pic of the 7th fish. It's a white faced red. It's scales appear to have a pattern. Look behind the pectoral fin. The scales appear to be swirled. There's something going on above the lateral line, too. I've never seen this in any fish. Do you think that the pic has been photo shopped or could this be real? http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?126039-Going-to-USA!#post1232209
That is one great looking fish Liz. I don't think it's been photo shopped but then I am not a Discus person. I do know what looks good to me and that fish is a beauty.
Quote from: wsantia1 on September 28, 2016, 04:09:27 PM
That is one great looking fish Liz. I don't think it's been photo shopped but then I am not a Discus person. I do know what looks good to me and that fish is a beauty.
+1.... |^|
I already know that. Have any of you ever seen a swirl pattern in scales. I don't think it's real.
I looked at that fish this morning, but not as closely as you did. What's the deal with the lateral line? Do you think an injury could heal with swirled scales like that?
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2016, 06:06:23 PM
I already know that. Have any of you ever seen a swirl pattern in scales. I don't think it's real.
There are several fish in the Amazon basin that grow swirled scales, armored to protect against such as piranha ...could it simply (no pun intended) be a morph...?
I just looked too, IMO it is real, but I don't like it and I think it looks like a scale and lat. line deformity. Sorry,
Barb
Quote from: Mugwump on September 28, 2016, 06:33:48 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2016, 06:06:23 PM
I already know that. Have any of you ever seen a swirl pattern in scales. I don't think it's real.
There are several fish in the Amazon basin that grow swirled scales, armored to protect against such as piranha ...could it simply (no pun intended) be a morph...?
It could indeed be. Personally, I think it looks way cool,
Looks to me to be a disruption of the normal patterning of the lateral line and the scales.
Normally, in development, the primordium of the lateral line migrates from the back of the head (in the skin, just behind the developing ear) back to the tail, dragging along the first nerve axons that innervate the lateral line and dropping off little bits of pre-lateral line cells as it goes. This should result in fairly straight line of lateral line sensory elements going back to the tail.
The picture shows a big swirl to the pattern which could have been due to an injury after the basic linear pattern was laid down.
An injury or disruption to the pattern in the embryo just before the primordium migrated through might explain the swirl, but how the front end of the pattern gets connected to the back part is not so clear.
A mutation causing this is possible but might be more difficult to explain. I heard an angelfish breeder once that lateral line mutants are not uncommon.
It would be interesting to see what the other side of the fish looks like.
If it were due to mutation, you would expect to find similar pattern disruptions on both sides of the fish.
If it were due to an injury, than you would not expect to find it on both sides.
Quote from: BillT on September 28, 2016, 10:43:47 PM
Looks to me to be a disruption of the normal patterning of the lateral line and the scales.
Normally, in development, the primordium of the lateral line migrates from the back of the head (in the skin, just behind the developing ear) back to the tail, dragging along the first nerve axons that innervate the lateral line and dropping off little bits of pre-lateral line cells as it goes. This should result in fairly straight line of lateral line sensory elements going back to the tail.
The picture shows a big swirl to the pattern which could have been due to an injury after the basic linear pattern was laid down.
An injury or disruption to the pattern in the embryo just before the primordium migrated through might explain the swirl, but how the front end of the pattern gets connected to the back part is not so clear.
A mutation causing this is possible but might be more difficult to explain. I heard an angelfish breeder once that lateral line mutants are not uncommon.
Interesting. It would be cool if it were a mutation.
It would be interesting to see what the other side of the fish looks like.
If it were due to mutation, you would expect to find similar pattern disruptions on both sides of the fish.
If it were due to an injury, than you would not expect to find it on both sides.
huh huh huh huh huh
Were you going to comment on the above post...?
Yes, It think that it would be way cool if the swirls were a result of a mutation.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 07, 2016, 06:53:04 PM
Yes, It think that it would be way cool if the swirls were a result of a mutation.
that was my first thought(hope) anyway.....
If it's induced, I have no use for it.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 07, 2016, 06:57:55 PM
If it's induced, I have no use for it.
How would/could it be induced ?....
perhaps by sticking a needle in the scales to create an injury (?) I don't know really. I've become leary of good looking Discus here lately.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 07, 2016, 07:12:11 PM
perhaps by sticking a needle in the scales to create an injury (?) I don't know really. I've become leary of good looking Discus here lately.
I can understand.......but then it could be a blessing too....who knows?
It's funny with me and Discus. I started out likening the flashy stuff like the swirl fish. As my taste has gotten more refined I find myself headed to wilds. They have a subtle beauty that takes a long time to appreciate. They aren't perfect and they aren't flashy. Breeding them is quite the challenge.
To mess up the lateral line in that manner by a physical intervention (needle), it would have to happen when they are embryos, before they hatch and before the eyes get pigment.
If it were a mutation, it would probably be at the same time, but of course would happen by itself.
I would guess it could have been from something like a non-lethal bacterial or fungal infection that messed up the embryo, in the egg shell, before it hatched. After overcoming the infection, that part of the body developed in a weird manner because there was a lot of messed up tissue there.
Wounding can mess up the orientation (top/bottom, front/back) of tissues (like the developing scales and lateral line).
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 07, 2016, 07:46:26 PM
... As my taste has gotten more refined I find myself headed to wilds. They have a subtle beauty that takes a long time to appreciate....
+1 I find something lacking in man-made fish variations, (discus or otherwise)... There's much to be said for natures own beauty.
Dennis