What's everyone's water like where they are...??...Mine's a neutral PH of about 7.0-7.2...tds's are low/mid 100's...I don't check much else....I do have a 100gpd R/O system for blending when I want to get a little better water for some pairs....the PH does rise a bit to the mid 7's, but is stable there.....
anyone take water testing further??...why?..plants?...just curious..
I'm not sure what my tds's are. My PH is around 7.4 How do you check your tds?
Mine is pH6.8 from the tap and 7.2 or 7.4 after aging (I can't remember which been a long time since I tested). gH 0, kH 4.5, uS 235. I need RO to breed. I use aged tap for everything else. I only test when I'm lowering the conductivity of a breeding tank. I only test for conductivity as it's the only thing that matters.
Quote from: b125killer on November 07, 2012, 06:34:31 AM
I'm not sure what my tds's are. My PH is around 7.4 How do you check your tds?
TDS's are the total dissolved solids. It's better for most pairs to have water with low TDS's for spawns. It's an indicator of hardness. Angels come from water with TDS's of about 75-125 ppm TDS's(hardness)...fertilization is better will lower numbers.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 07, 2012, 06:36:51 AM
Mine is pH6.8 from the tap and 7.2 or 7.4 after aging (I can't remember which been a long time since I tested). gH 0, kH 4.5, uS 235. I need RO to breed. I use aged tap for everything else. I only test when I'm lowering the conductivity of a breeding tank. I only test for conductivity as it's the only thing that matters.
Righto Liz, that's a good way to test to...
Conductivity is measured in "Siemens" and these measurements are achieved by use of an electronic device appropriately named a conductivity meter. Water that is low in dissolved ions can measure ten microsiemens less.
I am familiar with tds readings but not siemens are they the same/equal readings or what is the difference and is there a common conversion formula between the two?
Quote from: Jdmcfast on November 07, 2012, 07:00:53 AM
I am familiar with tds readings but not siemens are they the same/equal readings or what is the difference and is there a common conversion formula between the two?
No they aren't the same. They are two different measuring methods that compliment each other. A low conductivity level in micro siemens will normally reflect a low(er) tds level...that's all...
My understanding, and I may have it wrong, is that TDS measures ALL disolved solids while uS measures only disolved mineral salts. I think that EC gives the more acurate reading, but once you know your water either will work. On my meter TDS is around 1/2 uS.
What do you use to measure the EC?
It's a Hanna meter. Let me go check the model number...It says HI 98311.
Why is it important to lower the EC? Is that what the RO is for?
Some people are lucky and have naturally soft water the the fish will produce in. What happens when the water is too hard is that it makes the eggs shells hard and the babies can't break through them. They are trapped inside the egg and die. RO removes the minerals.
A TDS meter typically displays the TDS in parts per million (ppm). You can simply multiply microsiemens by 0.64 to obtain the ppm.
Dennis
Quote from: b125killer on November 07, 2012, 07:35:29 AM
Why is it important to lower the EC? Is that what the RO is for?
How would you know if it' needs adjusting if you don't measure to find out where you stand currently??
Like Liz stated, one test is a little different than the other...I use a TDS meter...it tells all your 'sins'...but testing EC is just as effective..it'll show you a 'range' of TDS's.....you're never going to be exact but need to know the approximate perameters of your water
Quote from: BallAquatics on November 07, 2012, 07:56:46 AM
A TDS meter typically displays the TDS in parts per million (ppm). You can simply multiply microsiemens by 0.64 to obtain the ppm.
Dennis
Thanks, Dennis and Liz.....good stuff.....
It seems to me that conductivity readings are the more scientific method - normally when reading field reports the measurement is given in microsiemens. Then again, maybe conductivity meters are more durable and better suited for field work??
Dennis
Neither is very expensive....but the conductivity testers are likely more durable than the run of the mill TDS pen,etc..
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 07, 2012, 07:24:02 AM
It's a Hanna meter. Let me go check the model number...It says HI 98311.
I like this meter it's waterproof floats and you don't need to calibrate it. I just need to understand water chemistry better. It's a little more involved then understanding the basic water parameters.
Quote from: b125killer on November 07, 2012, 08:56:23 AM
I just need to understand water chemistry better.
Yea, back in the day, we used to say we kept water, not fish! lol It's like anything else, there's a bit of a learning curve, but once you've got it, you're good-to-go!
Dennis
There are several ways to get an idea of the amount of dissolved solids in water and different ways to put a number on it.
Total dissolved solids would be what you have left when you remove all the water and other liquids. This is mostly salts in most cases but can include uncharged solids also (such as uncharged sugars). Besides removing the liquids, which rarely done, you can measure the density of the water with various kinds of floating things (hydrometers) that will have a greater or lessor tendency to flow in water of different densities. Another method is to use a density refractometer. The amount of things in the water change the optical properties of the water which can be detected by looking at how much a light path bends when it goes through the water. Similarly, properties like freezing points and vapor pressure (ease of evaporation) are changed when other chemicals are dissolved in the water. These are used in labs with expensive machines (not realistic for normal people).
Details:
If a standard salt mix is present conductivity (which is the inverse of electrical resistance; 1/R) will provide a good indication of the solids present. Salts are molecules that break apart into two or more pieces in the water, each carrying an opposite charge. Because they are little bits of charge moving around in the water, they can transport current from one electrode to another resulting in a current which the instrument measures and conputes the resistance and therefore the conductivity (1/R). A small fraction of water molecules will also break apart into H+ and OH- ions, so that pure water can carry charge and has a residual level of conductivity.
Not all salt molecules of a particular kind will all break apart in this way and it will vary with the chemistry of the molecules and atoms involved. In addition, different ionized molecules or atoms will have different molecular weights and will therefore move more or less easily through the water, contributing more or less to the measured current.
Most electronic TDS meters are just conductivity meters with a conversion factor like what Dennnis was talking about built in in to their circuitry, probably based upon the most common kinds of salts they would be expected to encounter.
I use both conductivity meters and a refractometer for different purposes.