Got a hold of some of these last weekend at a LFS and added them to my sponge filters, and all I can say is wow!!! Endorse the use of them X100000. If it works as good as they say then I will never have to buy another cheap clogging air stone again. They sell then at Smalls for $2.00 each and large for $3.00 each. I figure in the long run I spend that on them anyway but will never have to change them again.
(http://www.aquariumcoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/airstones.jpg)
They're great. I use them in all my sponges.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 07:47:16 AM
They're great. I use them in all my sponges.
on line source???....I saw these back years ago, a guy had them for sale on Pete/Deb's place..but he ran out....
What my understand is you have to buy a ton of them from the online source... If any one is interested, I can purchase them and mail out from my LFS. Please contact me via PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
prices from David???....
lol, I'm so nice to him that he sent me 20 for free. You'll have to contact him to get a price. Last time I checked they weren't on his web site.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 04:37:36 PM
lol, I'm so nice to him that he sent me 20 for free. You'll have to contact him to get a price. Last time I checked they weren't on his web site.
LOL...no comment 8)
I know a guy that brings them back when he visits Singapore.
I don't believe that he wants and arm and a leg for them. IMHO 3$ a piece is too much for something that cost a few pennies to make. When they first became available I saw them at ACA where they were $5.00 each. I loved them but what fool would spent that kind of money on an air stone.
I will be interested to hear how these work.
I have been frustrated enough with airstones that I now mostly just use stiff airline tubing to make larger bubbles instead.
Several years ago I did an experiment based on what I figured was the cause of airstone clogging.
Possible cause:
1) water containing dissolved solids
2) at the place where bubbles are coming out, a thin film of water (containing the dissolved solids) is present and exposed to evaporation, increasing the concentration of the dissolved solids
3) eventually the concentration of the dissolve solids exceeds that which the water conditions can keep dissolved and the solids start to precipitate until things clog up
My experiment was to prevent clogging by preventing the evaporation:
The air going to the airstone being tested was first hydrated by being bubbled through a container of water (sealed).
This worked well for the airstone, but was a hassle to maintain long term, thus not practical.
Any idea how these airstones are supposed to work? Maybe made of a water repellant material.
I have a friend who likes the idea of using sintered glass airstones because they can be dunked into concentrated acid to de-clog them. The sintered glass being a fused mass of glass will not come apart due to the acid treatment.
I would like to get a few of these to try. The ones that we get at the stores fall apart after awhile. so now we just use airline which makes big bubbles and I don`t really like the looks of it. These remind me of leggo`s , can we build them?
These are super cool Jan yes they can be adjusted like legos!! I wasn't sure about it when Aron first said he wanted to try them and now....I would rather have these they are not obnoxious at all and in our fry tank it doesn't seem to bother them
cool, we will have to try them. I will talk to Jon and see if he wants some.
Sounds like another package of goodies from P4A? :o
Quote from: Mugwump on August 06, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
prices from David???....
Speaking of that does David offer a forum discount?
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Yes, use 'Mugwump'.....
http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/index.php?topic=1158.0
Here is the never clog airstones in action
Thanks, they appear to work fine.....cool 8)
Thanks for showing how they work. I like the smaller bubbles best, maybe a female thing? I aslo like that they put off a lot of bubbles. Much better then regular air stones, that turn to mush in soft water or block up with lime in harder water. Regular ones are cheaper, but when you have to keep buying them time and time again are they really? Jon and I have just stopped buying the regular ones , because ours just kept falling apart. We were buying air stones about every month and they were also going up in price. If these last a few years as I think they will, it is worth the price.
I like the ton of small bubbles, too. I got my first 4 of these air stones about 5 years ago. They also were a gift. Kenny tossed them in with a big order of expensive Discus. The original ones are still going strong. I can testify to the fact that they don't wear out.
Quote from: Mugwump on August 06, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
prices from David???....
I contacted David he sells these 8 for $10!:)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Quote from: Jdmcfast on August 11, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 06, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
prices from David???....
I contacted David he sells these 8 for $10!:)
not a bad price then, I guess ??
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Quote from: Mugwump on August 12, 2013, 05:10:21 AM
Quote from: Jdmcfast on August 11, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 06, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 06, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
David has them in stock. He brought a bunch home from China at my request.
prices from David???....
I contacted David he sells these 8 for $10!:)
not a bad price then, I guess ??
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Nope. I ordered 24 and after forum discount and shipping the total was $32.95 :-)
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
cool.....let us know what ya think of them...
I got mine in the mall today. I'll let you know what I think.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/17/jaqegy5u.jpg)
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
I need to get some of these myself. Just threw away a couple of the regular kind that were starting to breakdown. They were not even that old.
Are those 'Lego's' ???....LOL
I wish they came in neutral colors...or black or green.
Quote from: PaulineMi on August 16, 2013, 07:45:17 PM
I wish they came in neutral colors...or black or green.
Why?....I know they won't blend in well....but you can camouflage them somehow.....LOL....just think................"Where's Waldo?"....
Hide them inside the filter and nobody will see them..
Jan we have some for you
Josh, any review on how these are working for you
Quote from: Mugwump on September 07, 2013, 08:11:45 AM
Josh, any review on how these are working for you
They work pretty good a little bigger bubbles than I was hoping for but so far so good:))
Josh
Excellent....thanks for the feed back..
Love'em Love'em Love'em
What are these things like after 6 or 8 months in service Aron? I've been dumping my used stones in bleach, but even with that sometimes they just don't work properly after a bit of time.
Dennis
Give me a couple more months and I will be able to give you better advise..
Quote from: BallAquatics on October 09, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
What are these things like after 6 or 8 months in service Aron? I've been dumping my used stones in bleach, but even with that sometimes they just don't work properly after a bit of time.
Dennis
After cleaning, blow em out with a good air hose..then brush lightly.
QuoteI've been dumping my used stones in bleach, but even with that sometimes they just don't work properly after a bit of time.
Bleach will kill everything and if left long enough (a few days) breakdown many organic (carbon containing) compounds.
One problem with airstones is often mineral deposits concentrated out of the water. However there may also be organic biofilms (a mess of bacteria, fungi, ciliates, and the fibers and goo they make) holding the deposits together. The bleach may work by breaking down the organic biofilms and freeing many of the deposits.
These deposits often contain carbonates, they should dissolve in acid. Vinegar (weak acetic acid) and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) are two commonly available acids. You could probably get phosphoric acid from a brew shop since it is used for sterilizing things for brewing.
These would have to soak for a while to dissolve things. Often bubbles are formed which will slow the reaction because the air will form a barrier between the two reactants, the acid in the water and the deposits.
With things like airstones with deposits in small holes, the problem is greater, however it came be overcome by forcing the acudic water through the airstone. This could be done by: a) siphoning the acid solution, via an airline, out of a container down to the airstone in a sink, or b) submerging the airstone in the acidic water while attached to a water-free airline with its other end out of the water. This way you won't chance sucking acid into your mouth.
If bleach and acid don't work, you could make a basic solution with baking soda. That may dissolve something if an acid won't.
Some airstones will fall apart in a long acid soak. They are probably a sandy material held together will something like a carbonate glue.
Some airstones are sintered glass. This is little sand sized pieces of glass, melted together into a single mass of glass with a lot of holes in it.
Wood airstones and acid????
The new airstones look like they will make medium size bubbles but, like Mug, said easy to clean.
Mostly now I just use stiff airline tubing (clear vinyl). Cheap, big bubbles, easy to clean.
If it's just mostly for sponges, David carries sponge filters that don't need an air stone. They have a built in middle that breaks up the air flow....I got a case a while back and am very pleased....takes the flerp noise away. ;D
The bleach method is working very well for me so no complaints. I buy cheap air stones, with shipping they come out to about .20 cents a piece. Before I converted everything over to HMF, I used mostly DIY foam, (sponge), filters without air stones, but I can't get the flow I want through 3/4 PVC without air stones.....
The video is one of my $1 per gallon Petco 40 gallon breeder tanks from last year. The corner HMF is only about 1/2 the size of a standard HMF but at 12 months in service it's not showing any signs of needing a cleaning and just keeps the water crystal clear. Nothing fancy about the air lift, standard 3/4 PVC with a single air stone near the bottom of the lift tube. About every 10 to 12 weeks the stones need to be cleaned/replaced. Lots of bio-film build up in the super oxygen rich environment.
I've got a peanut butter jar with bleach and I just drop the dirty stone in and get a clean stone out. Blow out the bleach and let it run for a few minutes in an empty tank and then put the clean stone into service..... repeat in 10 to 12 weeks. Every once in a while I get a stone that still doesn't work well and they get pitched.
Dennis
Dennis, Do you not have any problems with the plant leaves, etc., clogging the face of the filter, requiring their removal for the continued steady flow?
Ron, there is so much surface area with the HMF that leaves do not become stuck to the filter foam. That being said, I'm sure if I was to put a big enough mechanical water pump behind the foam and started increasing the flow rate, at some point it would indeed start causing things to become attached.
(http://ballaquatics.com/ba-wp/wp-content/uploads/800x600_Tank001-624x468.jpg)
Without water in the tank you get a better idea of the filter size. The foam is 10 inches wide by 16 inches tall. The braces are 6 inches from the corner of the tank which gives the foam a gentle arc.
Dennis
Dennis, This looks interesting, what are the braces made of ? I might want to try this out. Jan
Hi Jan. It's called J Channel. You can find it with the vinyl siding at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. I'm not fond of working with glass so I used this material. Since it's vinyl the silicon will stick to it very well and hold it to the tank wall just as it would a piece of glass. It's like $4.00 for a 12' section.
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/39/390322bd-a896-47f5-a06b-20ae92ab146a_1000.jpg)
I've got some photos somewhere of the modifications I do to it if I can find them.....
Dennis
Thanks Dennis,I was wondering how that was done. I like DIY projects and will try to tackle anything. I made a large flight cage some years ago when I was breeding finches. It had 2 levels and each was 6 ft. long by 2ft. wide 2ft. high., that way the birds could fly back and forth and get lots of exercize. :D
You sound like my kind of girl Jan!
I love DIY too. I think it brings me closer to my hobby. When you build it yourself, you know how it works and why it works.
Dennis
Wow this thread could almost be spit into another how 2?
It goes that way sometimes. ;D Topics get started, and then meander around some other interesting things ....
That's what I like about this forum. It's like sitting around the table chatting over a cup of coffee.
Quote from: PaulineMi on January 11, 2014, 06:16:27 AM
That's what I like about this forum. It's like sitting around the table chatting over a cup of coffee.
Coffee????....I need to grab a refill... ;D
Found 'em!!!!!
This is the 'J' channel just cut to length. These went into some 40 breeders so they are somewhere around 15.5 inches long.....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_JChannel001.JPG)
This is with the channel with most of the hook part cut off of the J. You only need just a little bit to grab hold of the foam so I cut most of it off. The cut-offs are shown in the photo too.....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_JChannel002.JPG)
This is the channel all trimmed and ready to silicone into the tank. These were all cut using a table saw, but when I first started playing around with these corner HMF's I cut the pieces using just a utility knife.....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_JChannel003.JPG)
Here the pieces are glued in place with silicone in the tanks. I let them set 24 hours before installing the foam....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_InTank001.JPG)
With the foam installed.....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_FoamInFrame_001.JPG)
All done.....
(http://www.ballaquatics.com/images/stories/tanks/800x600_FoamInFrame_004.JPG)
Hope these help you with your DIY project.
Dennis
Oh Dennis, did you just open a can of worms for me.... Now Lori wants them in all the tanks..... Thanks gees.... lol
Great documentation of the how-to Dennis!
Dennis, Thanks for the pictures and the explaination of how you did this. I would have went to the store and looked at the channels and thought..... Huh! how did he do that! I now know that I will try this in some of our tanks. Where do you buy your sponge / foam from?
Quote from: P4Angels on January 30, 2014, 10:33:40 PM
.... Now Lori wants them in all the tanks.....
Smart girl. Seriously, I love these filters. I wanted to keep all the benefits of the HMF while saving a bit on the cost of foam and these do that perfectly.
Quote from: BillT on January 31, 2014, 02:34:06 AM
Great documentation of the how-to Dennis!
Thanks Bill. I knew I had these photos, just had to track them down.
Quote from: wiggs on January 31, 2014, 04:47:15 AM
Where do you buy your sponge / foam from?
I get all my foam from Stephan at http://www.swisstropicals.com/filtration-shop/poret-foam-shop/ (http://www.swisstropicals.com/filtration-shop/poret-foam-shop/), and I'm not just saying that because we are good friends. I've made sponge/foam filters for years now, using all sorts of materials and for the money the Poret is hands down the best value. Just check out the reference page http://www.swisstropicals.com/references/ (http://www.swisstropicals.com/references/), I'm sure you will see some very familiar names of people who are switching over to the Poret foam in their fish rooms.
Dennis
Dennis, Thanks again for all of the information. I will be trying this sometime this year. I hopefully will have some extra time to get it done in a few tanks. I like this idea as it looks easy to change the sponge filter and put in new clean one. I also want to try the lids that Aron made up. I was thinking about the stuff that they used and it hit me, I could make a green house out ot it. A small one of course, but I will think that over for awhile. ;D
QuoteDennis, Thanks again for all of the information. I will be trying this sometime this year. I hopefully will have some extra time to get it done in a few tanks. I like this idea as it looks easy to change the sponge filter and put in new clean one. I also want to try the lids that Aron made up. I was thinking about the stuff that they used and it hit me, I could make a green house out ot it. A small one of course, but I will think that over for awhile. ;D
I think that making greenhouses out of this stuff is one of the main reasons for its existence:
You can get kits to make greenhouses or buy the components and do it yourself. They can actually get quite large with the proper framing. I have seem very large greenhouses made with this stuff on fish farms housing many very large fish ponds.
Truly the best and most proper use of a greenhouse!
why not plants and fish, I`m willing to share with the fish --- LOL
Quote from: wiggs on February 01, 2014, 07:24:49 PM
why not plants and fish, I`m willing to share with the fish --- LOL
Atta girl, those fish tubs would supply more humidity, and serve as a water source too.. ;D
I remember Norm building a greenhouse using this material.....
I'm thinking I will use this stuff.....
http://ana-white.com/2012/05/plans/barn-greenhouse (http://ana-white.com/2012/05/plans/barn-greenhouse)
I used this material to put a new roof on the barn/shed last summer and it worked great.
Dennis
Nice vid....he makes it look easy, huh?.... ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on February 01, 2014, 08:11:55 PM
Nice vid....he makes it look easy, huh?.... ;D
He certainly does. LOL I've watched Norm since I can't remember when..... if I wasn't doing computers & fish, I could easily be happy doing work working.
Dennis