I got my first r/o system. I have tested the tds for the ro water and waste water. The ro is 0 the waste is 350. I'm still thinking of useing the waste water for water changes on non breeding tanks. I was just woundering if that's a good ideal or not. The waste water is still better than the water out of the tap. I'm running the water through two pre filters that drop the tbs to 220 before going into the ro system. I'm guessing that the waste is concentrated that's why the higer tds then whats going in. The chlorine is filtered out in the first set of filters. So I'm thinking the waste doesn't have chlorine. I just don't know what else is in the waste waters. Also I'm not sure how to heat the ro water. I was reading that I shouldn't use hot water in the ro system and it needs to be hooked up to the cold water line. but the filters where rated for water at 77?. I could still age it and heat the water that way. But not sure what that would do to the tds. Or would it be ok to use warm water in the filters?
Sometimes you can it, sometimes you cannot. If your kH is 4.5 or less it works. Over that I wouldn't recommend it.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 07, 2014, 11:15:20 AM
Sometimes you can it, sometimes you cannot. If your kH is 4.5 or less it works. Over that I wouldn't recommend it.....
very true....
Quote from: b125killer on March 07, 2014, 09:59:15 AM
I got my first r/o system. I have tested the tds for the ro water and waste water. The ro is 0 the waste is 350. I'm still thinking of useing the waste water for water changes on non breeding tanks. I was just woundering if that's a good ideal or not. The waste water is still better than the water out of the tap. I'm running the water through two pre filters that drop the tbs to 220 before going into the ro system. I'm guessing that the waste is concentrated that's why the higer tds then whats going in. The chlorine is filtered out in the first set of filters. So I'm thinking the waste doesn't have chlorine. I just don't know what else is in the waste waters. Also I'm not sure how to heat the ro water. I was reading that I shouldn't use hot water in the ro system and it needs to be hooked up to the cold water line. but the filters where rated for water at 77?. I could still age it and heat the water that way. But not sure what that would do to the tds. Or would it be ok to use warm water in the filters?
The waste water tds is high because it contains all the impurties stripped from the R/O water itself...yes, it's concentrated....use it for your garden....for grow outs, or other than pairs..try a tap water/R/O blend...it should be perfect at maybe 50/50..??? imho, this might work quite well for your pairs too...??...you really don't want to use straight R/O....test it out and experiment with the ratios in different percentage blends...a tds of anything under 100, say 60-75, will likely be fine for the pairs..
I tested a lot of water. I'm using API kh test kit. I'm not sure if I'm reading things right on it. The r/o water was one drop. the chart saying 1 drop equals 17.9ppm does that mean that the kh is 1? My waste water is at 17 drops 304ppm my tap water is 13 drops 232 ppm
I know the African chiclids can go as high as 400ppm. I'm sure I could use waste water with them.
I'm going to blend ro and filter water to get the tds to 60 ppm. I'm going to start doing smaller water changes on the breeders tomorrow and hopefully soon I can get some good spawns.
Quote from: b125killer on March 08, 2014, 12:01:25 AM
I tested a lot of water. I'm using API kh test kit. I'm not sure if I'm reading things right on it. The r/o water was one drop. the chart saying 1 drop equals 17.9ppm does that mean that the kh is 1? My waste water is at 17 drops 304ppm my tap water is 13 drops 232 ppm
I know the African chiclids can go as high as 400ppm. I'm sure I could use waste water with them.
I'm going to blend ro and filter water to get the tds to 60 ppm. I'm going to start doing smaller water changes on the breeders tomorrow and hopefully soon I can get some good spawns.
Yes on the R/0....it seems the KH is much higher on your tap and waste water tho..
API KH and GH tests
Directions for testing KH
1. Rinse clean test tube with water to be tested
2. Fill to line with 5 ml water
3. Add Carbonate Hardness Test Solution, one drop at a time, holding dropper bottle upside down in a completely vertical position to assure uniformity of drops. After first drop is added, solution will turn blue.
If the water sample contains only 1 degree dKH, the solution will turn from clear to its yellow endpoint after the first drop is added.4. Cap the test tube and invert several times after each drop. Keep count of the drops being added.
5. The test is completed when the water in the test tube, after having been shaken, turns from blue to bright yellow.
6.
Each drop is equal to 1 degree dKH or 17.9 ppm KH.
The 17.9 ppm = 1 grain per gallon hardness
For water softening purposes, you would check the grains per gallons you need to remove from the water to properly size the water softener for your needs. Lots of GPG would call for a bigger softener.
Quote from: Rjb3 on March 08, 2014, 06:39:30 AM
The 17.9 ppm = 1 grain per gallon hardness
For water softening purposes, you would check the grains per gallons you need to remove from the water to properly size the water softener for your needs. Lots of GPG would call for a bigger softener.
Good thought, Bob...tap and R/O would both be better too...
I just checked the tds in my water storage it's 75ppm. It went up a little, I'm going to start doing the water changes in a little bit. It's still a little on the cold side. It took a little over6 hours to get enough ro water.
you can not use straight RO, your fish will not have enough minerals to build their bodies and the water will pull the minerals out of them resulting in brain damage, in two months they will go into death spirals. You have to put trace minerals back into the ro.
I'm blending the ro with water from the house filter. I was already warned not to use straight ro. I'm just want to use the water immediately without waiting for it to warm up. The tds is at 80 ppm now. I still haven't done the water change yet. I was waiting for the temperature to get right.
..you're aerating, right??
QuoteI was reading that I shouldn't use hot water in the ro system and it needs to be hooked up to the cold water line.
RO manufacturers have told me that all other things being equal warm water works better in a RO than cold. It makes more filtrate and less reject water.
I guess the more giggling around of the molecules at higher temperatures lets them reach their equilibrium (based on water pressure vs. osmotic pressure) faster (before the water flows out of the membrane pack in the reject stream).
However, your temperature should not exceed the limits of the materials in your machine.
Yep I'm aerating it. That's what I have been reading Bill. But the warm water can't come out of the hot water line. There's alot of mineral deposits from the water heater. It will wear the filter out quickly. I have deen reading that some people are putting their incoming water line coiled in a bucket or small tank. And it heats the water before it goes through the filter.
I did my water changes the tanks tds went from 400 to 350 ppm. I'm going to do daily water changes untill I get to the levels that I want. It's a shame I couldn't just do a 100% change with the ro blend.
QuoteBut the warm water can't come out of the hot water line. There's alot of mineral deposits from the water heater.
That makes sense.
QuoteI have been reading that some people are putting their incoming water line coiled in a bucket or small tank (of hot water?). And it heats the water before it goes through the filter.
Heat exchanger!
Yep home made heat exchanger. I'm going to try to make it next weekend. I'll try and use a bucket first. Some people were complaining that a 5 gallon bucket is to small for it. If that doesn't work I have a few other containers i could try and use.
The heat exchanger didn't work like I was hoping. It did heat the water, the problem was the 50 foot of tubing dropped the water pressure too low. It was a little trickle coming out of the ro filter.
Quote from: b125killer on March 15, 2014, 06:39:28 AM
The heat exchanger didn't work like I was hoping. It did heat the water, the problem was the 50 foot of tubing dropped the water pressure too low. It was a little trickle coming out of the ro filter.
Reverse it....run the hot through the tube to heat the R/O in a container before using.......
The water from your water heater actually has less mineral in it on the exit side as compared to the inlet source water or tap water. Demineralization of water works similarly to condensation. Cold water holds more mineral content molecularly than hot water does. When you heat water the water loses some of its capacity to hold minerals in suspension. When it comes out of suspension it forms the deposits. There is no way for hot water to reabsorb that mineral content because it does not have the molecular capacity to do so. Using your hot water is fine. Maybe even better than using your cold and if your unit runs better on warm water then use the warm water from your water heater.
Thanks Frank, that sounds better then trying to redo the heat exchanger. I also need to get a auto shut off for the filters. I fell asleep last night with them running. Good thing it's in my laundry room. There's a floor drain in there.
When you get a chance, read this thread by Lou, the 'wet fish'.....it's a fish room build in general. but there's some interesting about water heating that you might enjoy.....Lou is the master, by far...some of his designs are mind boggling..... ;D
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=15343&highlight=fish%2C+heating+water
Warm water makes the R.O. unit flow better. Get an adjustable mixing gadget like they use for toilets to mix hot and cold water so moisture doesn't condense on the outside of the toilet tank in the summer. The same mixer will provide warm water for your R.O.
Quote from: Rjb3 on March 16, 2014, 06:24:07 AM
Warm water makes the R.O. unit flow better. Get an adjustable mixing gadget like they use for toilets to mix hot and cold water so moisture doesn't condense on the outside of the toilet tank in the summer. The same mixer will provide warm water for your R.O.
another excellent idea....cool.... ;D....and really, you're not 'flushing' your changes either... ;D
...using heating coils.....
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=22123&highlight=fish%2C+heating+coils
(http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=16623&d=1296801813)
I was trying the coil thing on a much smaller scale. I kind of had a feeling it wouldn't work but was hopeful. I do have spare tanks I could try it with bigger tubing. But I'm losing water pressure with all the tubing. I already had in my mind a way to mix the hot and cold water. Just need to get a few parts for it. I think that's going to be my next step.