What and how

[LizStreithorst]

All the fish I have been breeding for the past couple of years come from a group of 6 Wifi Blue Marble pearlscales.  One of the group was not a PS.  Right off the bat my second spawn produced Platinums.  That was a bit of a shock but I learned that there was a thing called "the hidden gold gene".  I have silvers, ghosts, and clowns.  I have never had fish like this and all of a sudden I have about 10 in a spawn of under 200.  What is this called, please?  What genes were hidden that got together to produce it.  I hate it, but I am asking you to speak Greek to me.

[Mugwump]

It's a blue blushing......likely carrying a gold....g/+ S/S (+/pb).....and maybe 'het' for pb coming off those pairings....

[LizStreithorst]

I think it's a cool looking fish.  Forgive my stupidity but if I grow them out and breed them what might I expect to get? 

[wsantia1]

I got some of those from a sibling blue marble pairing. I also got a few from a mana x sibling cross a few years ago. Different body shapes but similar coloring. Unfortunately I haven't bred any of them.

[Mugwump]

I think it's a cool looking fish.  Forgive my stupidity but if I grow them out and breed them what might I expect to get?

...if the gold and het/pb...are there......some blue, pariabas, blue blush....yada yada....

[LizStreithorst]

I'll get stuff that is different from my usual stuff.  By Blue Marbles and Blue Plats are good but have become a bit of a bore. The Blue Clowns are all males.  They insist on pairing with Blue Silver PS.  I'm looking forward to growing out the kids from my Blue Ghosts. 

I need more tank space in a big way.  The wholesaler bought from someone else last time.  I have 400 small ++ Angels.  If he won't take them this coming Thursday I'll have to turn them into fertilizer.  I don't want to do it, but I can do it if I have to. 

Sometimes I feel like I'm a whore breeder but then I think about it and decide otherwise.

[waterboy]

Those are sometimes called German Blue Blushers. They have two stripeless genes which are recessive.  So if you breed them you will get more of the same.  Any differences will be determned by what other genes they have.

[Mugwump]

Those are sometimes called German Blue Blushers. They have two stripeless genes which are recessive.  So if you breed them you will get more of the same.  Any differences will be determned by what other genes they have.

..yup....

[LizStreithorst]

I finally figured out where these came from.  I don't keep track of what fry come from which parents because I send almost everything off to the wholesaler so why bother   Their parents are Blue Ghost Pearl scales.  I have two pairs like this and they both are throwing blue and platinum blushers.  The Ghost's parents were parents were Blue marbles.  I don't know if the Blue marbles were both PSs or if one was het.  I just removed mom and dad from another Blue Ghost pair and some of their kids are blushers, too.  The parents of the first ones I saw are still in with another batch of small fry and I can see blushers in that batch, too.

One thing I noticed in these spawns is that there is an unusually high number of culls among the blushers.  Among the Platinum blushers the number of culls to good fish is close to 50/50!

There are a couple of things I'm interested in finding out.  My platinum's all come from the hidden gold gene in the WiFi blue marbles.  Not one platinum so far (and I've had hundreds) has been either wide finned or pearl scale.  I wonder what I will see in these.  If the Plats turn out to be PSs that might explain the high ration of culls to keepers.

[waterboy]

I don't keep track of what fry come from which parents because I send almost everything off to the wholesaler so why bother

Their parents are Blue Ghost Pearl scales. 

One thing I noticed in these spawns is that there is an unusually high number of culls among the blushers.  Among the Platinum blushers the number of culls to good fish is close to 50/50!

There are a couple of things I'm interested in finding out.  My platinum's all come from the hidden gold gene in the WiFi blue marbles.  Not one platinum so far (and I've had hundreds) has been either wide finned or pearl scale.  I wonder what I will see in these.  If the Plats turn out to be PSs that might explain the high ration of culls to keepers.

I am going to give my best shot, but I am not really an expert.

1. If you don't keep track of them, how do you pick out the ones to save for future breeders?

2. Blue Ghost pearl scales will get you all pearl scales.  Pearl scale is recessive and only expresses if the fish has a double dose of it (p/p), so if both parents express it, all the offspring will express it.
Genotypes                                Phenotypes      %
+/+,+/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Blue silver pearlscale   25%
+/+,S/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Blue ghost pearlscale   50%
+/+,S/S,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Paraiba pearlscale   25%   ie: Blushing Platinums

3. If your Blue Marbles express pearl scale, then the Platinums have to be pearl scale (I think).  I am not sure if they can be pearl scale and not express the trait unless there is another gene that blocks the pearl scale like gold blocks the expression of Zebra.

4.  WIFI is not a known gene that I am aware of, and may or may not be reproducible.  I don't think anyone has done a study on the WIFI trait to see how it operates.  It might even be due to a combination of genes that your Platinums did not inherit.  If you have consistantly gotten WIFIs maybe you could do some test crosses to try to figure out how it works and become famous.

[Mugwump]

I don't keep track of what fry come from which parents because I send almost everything off to the wholesaler so why bother

Their parents are Blue Ghost Pearl scales. 

One thing I noticed in these spawns is that there is an unusually high number of culls among the blushers.  Among the Platinum blushers the number of culls to good fish is close to 50/50!

There are a couple of things I'm interested in finding out.  My platinum's all come from the hidden gold gene in the WiFi blue marbles.  Not one platinum so far (and I've had hundreds) has been either wide finned or pearl scale.  I wonder what I will see in these.  If the Plats turn out to be PSs that might explain the high ration of culls to keepers.

I am going to give my best shot, but I am not really an expert.

1. If you don't keep track of them, how do you pick out the ones to save for future breeders?

2. Blue Ghost pearl scales will get you all pearl scales.  Pearl scale is recessive and only expresses if the fish has a double dose of it (p/p), so if both parents express it, all the offspring will express it.
Genotypes                                Phenotypes      %
+/+,+/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Blue silver pearlscale   25%
+/+,S/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Blue ghost pearlscale   50%
+/+,S/S,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,p/p,+/+,pb/pb   Paraiba pearlscale   25%   ie: Blushing Platinums

3. If your Blue Marbles express pearl scale, then the Platinums have to be pearl scale (I think).  I am not sure if they can be pearl scale and not express the trait unless there is another gene that blocks the pearl scale like gold blocks the expression of Zebra.

4.  WIFI is not a known gene that I am aware of, and may or may not be reproducible.  I don't think anyone has done a study on the WIFI trait to see how it operates.  It might even be due to a combination of genes that your Platinums did not inherit.  If you have consistantly gotten WIFIs maybe you could do some test crosses to try to figure out how it works and become famous.

..good thoughts Dale....

I've found wifi to be evasive in reproducing......Pinoy and other darks are more prevalent in displaying this 'trait'....never seen a wifi plat.....but many pinoy, smokey and zebra....never seen a wifi marble, koi either.....the trait has a better chance of showing up if both parents are wifi.....but will pop up frequently with only one parent displaying....it's a quirk that I not sure anyone has put their finger on yet....

[LizStreithorst]

I've found it easy to be passed on except to those Plats.  Everything but the Plats seen to get it, at least among the ones I've grown out to be big fish.  There's a word for it in genetics that starts with an e and has a p and an s or two in it.  I'm much more curious about the PS thing with the Plats. Almost everything I have is PS.  What is not PS is almost certainly het for it.  Why I have not seen a PS Plat is beyond me.

Dale, I prefer not to do scientific experiments and become famous.  I don't want to devote tank space to science and I don't have the least desire in becoming famous.  I'm quite happy bumbling along in my own way.  My way makes me happy.  Isn't that what caring for fish is all about?

[Mugwump]

I've found it easy to be passed on except to those Plats.  Everything but the Plats seen to get it, at least among the ones I've grown out to be big fish.  There's a word for it in genetics that starts with an e and has a p and an s or two in it.  I'm much more curious about the PS thing with the Plats. Almost everything I have is PS.  What is not PS is almost certainly het for it.  Why I have not seen a PS Plat is beyond me.

Dale, I prefer not to do scientific experiments and become famous.  I don't want to devote tank space to science and I don't have the least desire in becoming famous.  I'm quite happy bumbling along in my own way.  My way makes me happy.  Isn't that what caring for fish is all about?

...yes......'epistasis'...

[waterboy]

Yup could very well be that the gold gene blocks the expression of pearl scale the same as it does Zebra, especially double dose as in a Plat.  Could very well have an affect on Wide Fins too. 

See you are already starting to do science.  You've made an observation of fact and recorded it here.  Next step would be to get curious as to why and figure out an experiment to find out.

Yes I agree that's what it is all about. 

[Mugwump]

Yup could very well be that the gold gene blocks the expression of pearl scale the same as it does Zebra, especially double dose as in a Plat.  Could very well have an affect on Wide Fins too. 


See you are already starting to do science.  You've made an observation of fact and recorded it here.  Next step would be to get curious as to why and figure out an experiment to find out.

Yes I agree that's what it is all about.