Pic's of Ed's generosity

[Mugwump]

Here's a few of the Koi veils, mentioned about....Ed did a real nice cross with these... ...now I just need to grow em out and cross em......the familiar genes will help hold my line for that.... ...one paler Koi in there, but I like her fins..

[LizStreithorst]

What brand to you use and where do you buy it, Mug?

[Mugwump]

What brand to you use and where do you buy it, Mug?

We have a guy at the swap that makes it up.........$10 for a big bag...a pound plus...
I know Bob has spirulina in his flake, but I don't believe that he's ever sold it straight???
Hilari makes a spirulina flake and freeze dried version too...

[LizStreithorst]

The stuff from the guy at the swap is 100% spirulina?

[Mugwump]

The stuff from the guy at the swap is 100% spirulina?

I really don't know...but looks to be..it's the darkest green flake that I've ever seen....Bob may have an insight on it.......he knows the big old guy too....

[EdKaz]

Trying to catch up in the fish room as well as online and seen this thread while taking a break today......Sorry for being so late to reply, but its been an EXTREMELY ROUGH 3-4 weeks here having just lost our youngest son (29 yrs old) on Aug 3.


Mugs you wrote:

For those interested...the parents of Ed's fry come from an unrelated pair. You should be able to line breed for characteristics and/or cross with existing pairs and do a cross back....for those of you who might have gotten a few veils??...the same will apply...Ed crossed to a Koi veil from another line.

So as Not to screw anyone up..........Actually, ALL the fish I sent out came off the two pairs of siblings that had formed from the 5 fish I initially bought from you. (Koi Pair 1 and 2)  The Koi 1 pair were the ones I got the red ventrals from,produce 80-90% orange coverage and kept spittng out spawn after spawn.....I HAD a TON of those. Koi 2 pair were producing fish with more black in them than the koi 1 pair did.  MOST of the fish I sent out came off the koi 1 pair.....when I ran low on them, I started adding koi2 pair fish to the mixes.

You also wrote:

Here's a few of the Koi veils, mentioned about....Ed did a real nice cross with these...

THOSE fish you got from the 40 were ALL from the Chi Town John Pair......last time you were here was when I had first STARTED swapping pairs around.In fact that first tank on the end in my fishroom with the REAL orage red fry you were eyeing up,and asked me to hold some for you, were the FIRST of the unrelated pair spawns.

I had since swapped around all 3 koi pairs in every concievable way, and they all cooperated.

Just so there is no confusion and or unexpected results............. Outcrosses WERE done here, But the resulting fish from ALL MY Koi outcrosses havent made their way out of the basement, besides to local stores...... by the buckets full

That said, one of Mugs Koi females (from Koi pair1 and responsible for the red ventral fish) consistantly produces fish with GREAT coverage and coloring no matter her partner...........while feeding BBS to the fry and only plain ole tetra flakes as soon as they will eat them.

I lost a lot of young fish in the past few weeks having neglected them while getting things that needed to get done done. As the days start to turn back into individual days instead of the big blur of days mixed into one, I hope to get things back in order in the fish room and get back to yacking in the forum some more.

[wsantia1]

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your son Ed.  My prayers are with you.

[Mugwump]

It's good to see things coming back to normal for you folks, Ed.

see ya in the morn'n...start the coffee early... we'll have the doughnuts..

[LizStreithorst]

I am so sorry, Ed.

[Mugwump]

Mugs you wrote:

For those interested...the parents of Ed's fry come from an unrelated pair. You should be able to line breed for characteristics and/or cross with existing pairs and do a cross back....for those of you who might have gotten a few veils??...the same will apply...Ed crossed to a Koi veil from another line.

So as Not to screw anyone up..........Actually, ALL the fish I sent out came off the two pairs of siblings that had formed from the 5 fish I initially bought from you. (Koi Pair 1 and 2)  The Koi 1 pair were the ones I got the red ventrals from,produce 80-90% orange coverage and kept spittng out spawn after spawn.....I HAD a TON of those. Koi 2 pair were producing fish with more black in them than the koi 1 pair did.  MOST of the fish I sent out came off the koi 1 pair.....when I ran low on them, I started adding koi2 pair fish to the mixes.

You also wrote:

Here's a few of the Koi veils, mentioned about....Ed did a real nice cross with these...

THOSE fish you got from the 40 were ALL from the Chi Town John Pair......last time you were here was when I had first STARTED swapping pairs around.In fact that first tank on the end in my fishroom with the REAL orage red fry you were eyeing up,and asked me to hold some for you, were the FIRST of the unrelated pair spawns.

I had since swapped around all 3 koi pairs in every concievable way, and they all cooperated.

Just so there is no confusion and or unexpected results............. Outcrosses WERE done here, But the resulting fish from ALL MY Koi outcrosses havent made their way out of the basement, besides to local stores...... by the buckets full

That said, one of Mugs Koi females (from Koi pair1 and responsible for the red ventral fish) consistantly produces fish with GREAT coverage and coloring no matter her partner...........while feeding BBS to the fry and only plain ole tetra flakes as soon as they will eat them.

I lost a lot of young fish in the past few weeks having neglected them while getting things that needed to get done done. As the days start to turn back into individual days instead of the big blur of days mixed into one, I hope to get things back in order in the fish room and get back to yacking in the forum some more.

Ah, I missed the part about my getting John's pair fry....thanks...a welcome correction, thanks Ed....
for sure now they're not related... ....the other fry did come from siblings of an original unrelated pair tho....so sibling crosses will be fine... ...then a cross back will set the line nicely.....I'm doing cross backs to the original right now....father/daughter have spawned not but not raised, I'll yank the next one to make sure that I can get them....

[ghonk]

IF i remember correctly,Ted TAF said it might/will take a couple OR MORE? generations AFTER an outcross to get the desired results.

So i ASSUME after an outcross you would do sibling breeding,choosing  the best of those.Does that sound like the way to go about it.   

[Mugwump]

IF i remember correctly,Ted TAF said it might/will take a couple OR MORE? generations AFTER an outcross to get the desired results.

So i ASSUME after an outcross you would do sibling breeding,choosing  the best of those.Does that sound like the way to go about it.   

In this case, the out cross was to another koi line, same phenotype, that's all.....but same applies..cherry pic the best for futures.....Ted was talking a cross to a different phenotype....that can take some time to bring back...

[ghonk]

I figured if you crossed a great koi,high coverage of orange  with something like a wild type,to improve body  shape or finage it would take a long time to get the nice orange back,

But also thought if you crossed 2 LINES,like Mellow X Angelfish +,the resulting fry wouldn't be as good as EITHER of those lines in the first generation.
At least by the numbers of great ones within that cross. 

[Mugwump]

I figured if you crossed a great koi,high coverage of orange  with something like a wild type,to improve body  shape or finage it would take a long time to get the nice orange back,

But also thought if you crossed 2 LINES,like Mellow X Angelfish +,the resulting fry wouldn't be as good as EITHER of those lines in the first generation.
At least by the numbers of great ones within that cross.

Yes, sometimes an initial phenotype cross between the different unrelated lines can be disappointing..I've had that amongst my unrelated koi lines too...but more often than not, a simple sibling cross or back to parent cross pops the desired results. ..and yes, crossing different phenotypes can be very time/resource consuming to get back where you want to be...

[ilroost]

I was asking about you Ed. So sorry for the loss of your son