BSP x Pinoy

[ghonk]

 

[/quote]

....'extensive'.....?....an assumption........I don't recall seeing any fry counts..."how b/g affected expression."...or is it the other way around?...his expressing stock most all have p/b now...

b/g does seem to do something tho...I'm really interested in what Dale and Joel find......Dena spent quite a bit of time on it before throwing in the towel....
[/quote]

Yes extensive,he added the b/g gene to many genotypes.
Some of it is buried in this thread.

http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=24342

I don't see how fry counts are needed to see the effect it has on different genotypes.
If he was trying to prove the b/g gene the would be a different story, according to the ANGELFISH SOCIETY'S standards.
Hey are they  still around. 

I'm sure     all of Raiko's b/g fish aren't polluted with p/b by now.
He wouldn't be that stupid.

[Babers]

Some of them , I've got the headlight, some faint (like a (+/pb) and some didn't. That's why I was initially wondering if the Pinoy is really a Pinoy (D/g pb/pb)...or if it's only a Black lace (D/g +/pb). Although she looks like a Pinoy. So I definitely thinks it does something to the pb expression...

Here's a couple pictures of a very visible "headlight" and a "faint" one.

[Babers]

Faint

[Mugwump]

....'extensive'.....?....an assumption........I don't recall seeing any fry counts..."how b/g affected expression."...or is it the other way around?...his expressing stock most all have p/b now...

b/g does seem to do something tho...I'm really interested in what Dale and Joel find......Dena spent quite a bit of time on it before throwing in the towel....
[/quote]

Yes extensive,he added the b/g gene to many genotypes.
Some of it is buried in this thread.

http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=24342

I don't see how fry counts are needed to see the effect it has on different genotypes.
If he was trying to prove the b/g gene the would be a different story, according to the ANGELFISH SOCIETY'S standards.
Hey are they  still around. 

I'm sure all of Raiko's b/g fish aren't polluted with p/b by now.
He wouldn't be that stupid.
[/quote]

....likely not all.....but everything coming to the states seems be be goulash.....

....fry counts tell the story of the crosses and results.......as of now, there seems to be a collage of genes in the stock.....that would indicate crossing just to cross....without any planned direction.......?....a road map would help bunches....

...yes, 'they' are still around......

[Babers]

Can't attach the one regular headlight for the pb/pb...and it's from the blue silvers.
The "platinum looking" ones also has the headlight and very evident

[Mugwump]

Faint

..thanks Joel.....good pic

[ghonk]

 
[/quote]

....likely not all.....but everything coming to the states seems be be goulash.....

....fry counts tell the story of the crosses and results.......as of now, there seems to be a collage of genes in the stock.....that would indicate crossing just to cross....without any planned direction.......?....a road map would help bunches....

...yes, 'they' are still around......
[/quote]

At one time I saw Raiko state  that he only exported fish to the (US) 2 times,now he may have did it since  then,but as far as I know he hasn't been flooding the market with MUTT stock.

I think at times b/g is getting confused with BSP.
Think of b/g like you would with the p/b gene,you can add it to any genotype and it will express in double dose.

BSP is a double dose b/g fish that is (best I can remember) also D/g.
It would be similar to adding p/b-p/b  to  a D/g fish,which would be a (D/g Pinoy )     

[Mugwump]

....likely not all.....but everything coming to the states seems be be goulash.....

....fry counts tell the story of the crosses and results.......as of now, there seems to be a collage of genes in the stock.....that would indicate crossing just to cross....without any planned direction.......?....a road map would help bunches....

...yes, 'they' are still around......
[/quote]

At one time I saw Raiko state  that he only exported fish to the (US) 2 times,now he may have did it since  then,but as far as I know he hasn't been flooding the market with MUTT stock.

I think at times b/g is getting confused with BSP.
Think of b/g like you would with the p/b gene,you can add it to any genotype and it will express in double dose.

BSP is a double dose b/g fish that is (best I can remember) also D/g.
It would be similar to adding p/b-p/b  to  a D/g fish,which would be a (D/g Pinoy )     
[/quote]

I don't recall saying anything about "mutt' stock...but one man's 'Mona Lisa' is another man's 'fridge' pic..........and no confusion here, I know how recessive genes work........

When you do crosses it's as important as what you didn't get, as what you did get........was 'bg' isolated?......really?

[ghonk]

     
[/quote]

I don't recall saying anything about "mutt' stock...but one man's 'Mona Lisa' is another man's 'fridge' pic..........and no confusion here, I know how recessive genes work........

When you do crosses it's as important as what you didn't get, as what you did get........was 'bg' isolated?......really?
[/quote]

I said at times I think b/g is getting confused with BSP,i didn't say YOU were.

OTHER then the fish having P/B what would make them goulash?
Unless you are calling them goulash because of the p/b that they also have.

They can be ANY genotype with a double dose of b/g and still be Bulgarian Green fish.
(for  those who don't know)

Like I said I wish he would have imported some NON p/b fish too,would have made it much easier to work with.

What  do you consider  isolated?
Pretty sure he had +/+-b/g/b/g fish,can't think how it would be more isolated then that.
 

[ghonk]

Though I saw a pictuce of his fish labeled  +/+-bg/bg.
But couldn't find it in the linked  thread,if I find it I well post.

[Mugwump]

     

I don't recall saying anything about "mutt' stock...but one man's 'Mona Lisa' is another man's 'fridge' pic..........and no confusion here, I know how recessive genes work........

When you do crosses it's as important as what you didn't get, as what you did get........was 'bg' isolated?......really?
[/quote]

I said at times I think b/g is getting confused with BSP,i didn't say YOU were.

OTHER then the fish having P/B what would make them goulash?
Unless you are calling them goulash because of the p/b that they also have.

They can be ANY genotype with a double dose of b/g and still be Bulgarian Green fish.
(for  those who don't know)

Like I said I wish he would have imported some NON p/b fish too,would have made it much easier to work with.

What  do you consider  isolated?
Pretty sure he had +/+-b/g/b/g fish,can't think how it would be more isolated then that.

[/quote]

""Pretty sure he had +/+-b/g/b/g fish,can't think how it would be more isolated then that. ""

...did he ?...

'goulash' being the fact that isolating is a lengthy process, at best......because the stock imported here were very mixed genetically .....by allowing his stock to be brought here early on might have avoided this issue......there were a few folks willing to 'pony up' and do the importing...but no cigar.....he just kept playing his cards close to his chest.....$$$'s..

...too much woulda coulda shoulda going on.....and it makes it ripe for assumption about things....again, I have no problem with bg.....it's how it all came down....if he did isolate it, how come no one else has been able to yet?....

I hope the a vs (a2) work is handled better..........a/a is ok...but will (a2)/(a2) ever be isolated to identify it?   time will tell if a modifier or a new gene is out there.....

[Mugwump]

Though I saw a pictuce of his fish labeled  +/+-bg/bg.
But couldn't find it in the linked  thread,if I find it I well post.

...please do......and thanks

[ghonk]

 
 

[/quote]




  I have no problem with bg.....it's how it all came down....if he did isolate it, how come no one else has been able to yet?....

[/quote]

Isolating the b/g gene would be EASY,assuming p/b isn't thrown into the mix.
   As long as you know the genetics of the fish you are starting with.
Judging by Raiko's work I think he would know the genetics of the fish you would be starting with.
 

No different then starting with a Pinoy Paraiba,and breeding the Dark and Stripless gene out of it,using a +/+ for the crosses you will eventually get blue silvers. 

Not sure either if anyone has actually TRIED to isolate it in  Raiko's stock. 

Again assuming you consider isolated  as a fish that is +/+-bg/bg.

[Mugwump]

 

  I have no problem with bg.....it's how it all came down....if he did isolate it, how come no one else has been able to yet?....

[/quote]

Isolating the b/g gene would be EASY,assuming p/b isn't thrown into the mix.
   As long as you know the genetics of the fish you are starting with.
Judging by Raiko's work I think he would know the genetics of the fish you would be starting with.
 

No different then starting with a Pinoy Paraiba,and breeding the Dark and Stripless gene out of it,using a +/+ for the crosses you will eventually get blue silvers. 

Not sure either if anyone has actually TRIED to isolate it in  Raiko's stock. 

Again assuming you consider isolated  as a fish that is +/+-bg/bg.
[/quote]


....assuming...not sure...again assuming...no different than.......ya see? no one really knows.....

""Isolating the b/g gene would be EASY,assuming p/b isn't thrown into the mix.""....but in most cases it is involved.....

Face it....for other breeders it's not an easy task working with bg.....it's learning on the fly, so to speak.....Joel and Dale, weren't sure exactly what they got with spawns.....a good speculative guess is all......

[Babers]

At this time, using the parents genes that was posted initially...Male (D/g pb/pb bg/bg) and Female (D/+ pb/pb +/bg)....and looking at the phenotypes of spawns that I have....I don't see anything that was not expected. I didn't see any odd-looking fish so far.

Since I really have not seen any postings also on the fry phenotype, this is why I asked Raiko's input on what kind of fry I have. I'm sure those color/phenotype varieties I have is nothing new to him.

So...based on the fish I have, I'm not seeing anything unexpected after Raiko identified each fish in the pictures  for me.  Nothing to disprove that the parents I have has more than what was mentioned...and Nothing to prove "the goulash" genetics...

But like I said, Spawn is smaller...maybe the next spawn after these guys will Tell us a better story.