...I know that it's cheaper in some areas, but I just tanked up at $1.94/Gal....it was $2/gal higher a year ago here......I'm loving it folks.....Dang ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
$1.85 here. I filled Charlotte up for $20. today ;D
One station just to our north is $1.74....our usual station is $1.89. Never thought we'd see these orices again. Now if groceries could drop a bit.....
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 02, 2015, 03:44:33 PM
$1.85 here.
That's what I paid here last Tuesday on the way to KFC. $3.00 chicken dinners and $1.85 gas, it just don't get no better.... LOL
Dennis
$1.51 in town 12 miles from our house......and they have a joint in town that serves THE BEST fried chicken dinners ;)
http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices/33/illinois/la_salle/streator/ (http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices/33/illinois/la_salle/streator/)
Quote from: EdKaz on January 02, 2015, 04:45:30 PM
$1.51 in town 12 miles from our house......and they have a joint in town that serves THE BEST fried chicken dinners ;)
http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices/33/illinois/la_salle/streator/ (http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices/33/illinois/la_salle/streator/)
$1.51 !!!!!!...sure rub it in....... ;D
Quote$1.51 !!!!!!...sure rub it in.......
Streator is a bit of a lost town.......miles off of ANY expressway etc.(you would THINK more costly to deliver to) MEANWHILE Still a buck 90 something in Ottawa here, right along I-80 ::)
$1.68 Here
And here I thought our gas was cheap. Not so I see. Now I am jealous of you all. Here in NC
with our high gas tax, it is $2.21 today.
Barb :(
Does your state use the gas tax to pay for road and bridge upkeep? That's what states need to start doing. I wouldn't mind paying higher gas taxes if it would go to keeping roads and bridges well maintained.
I'm paying $2.33. I am surprised by the low rate in Illinois because when I lived there just a year ago they had some of the highest prices in the country. :o :o
We are at 2.27 here in ma. I would love to see numbers under 2.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 02, 2015, 06:12:12 PM
Does your state use the gas tax to pay for road and bridge upkeep? That's what states need to start doing. I wouldn't mind paying higher gas taxes if it would go to keeping roads and bridges well maintained.
Here in Illinois, they add a tax for about anything to the price of gas...LOL...but yes, roads,etc are a part of it......the difference in gas prices between here and Iowa is basically the difference in state taxes added...........likely the difference in most other states too....now Chicago??....geez Louise, there the added taxes are just crazy............very crazy...
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 02, 2015, 06:12:12 PM
Does your state use the gas tax to pay for road and bridge upkeep? That's what states need to start doing. I wouldn't mind paying higher gas taxes if it would go to keeping roads and bridges well maintained.
[/quote
Yes they do, at least they claim that.]
Quote from: Barb on January 02, 2015, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 02, 2015, 06:12:12 PM
Does your state use the gas tax to pay for road and bridge upkeep? That's what states need to start doing. I wouldn't mind paying higher gas taxes if it would go to keeping roads and bridges well maintained.
[/quote
Yes they do, at least they claim that.]
...then every 'podunck' town/county in the state adds there own little tax...LOL
Illinois used to be about 20 cents higher than Wisconsin but I see now that some stations in Antioch (border town) are just as cheap. My home town of Twin Lakes used to be about 10 cents higher than Lake Geneva (both Wisconsin) now its 10 cents cheaper at 199. Maybe the cheaper winter blend has finally hit the pumps. I'm waiting for it to go down in Kenosha. Its usually about 20 cents cheaper than here but right now its only 10 cents.
What gets me is gas prices are dropping but nothing else is. Remember when they said grocery prices went up because transportation costs went up. Well, the conspiracy theorist in me says that is why they are keeping diesel prices up so they can still use the high transportation costs as an excuse.
My favorite part about it all is those people going out and buying the gas sucking 10 MPG SUVs again just because gas prices are low. A small part of me can't wit until gas hits $4.00 a gallon again just so I can listen to those people whine. A very small part of course but a part none the less.
Not that I don't like the low prices but in a way I wish they would hold it at a little higher price and make more money now but keep it lower as costs go up. Make more now and bank it so to speak but I know that will never happen.
All I can say is enjoy it while it lasts and buy yourself some gas cards with your savings if you don't need the money elsewhere. It won't stay this low forever.
I think it'll drop a bit more, then gel for a bit???....watch the market....once the price of oil begins to rise, they'll be no stopping it....gas will surpass previous prices...why?...because the oil brokers kids are going to college/dentist/ on a world tour..??...who knows.....
I agree, enjoy it while you can... ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on January 03, 2015, 04:58:55 PM
I think it'll drop a bit more, then gel for a bit???....watch the market....once the price of oil begins to rise, they'll be no stopping it....gas will surpass previous prices...why?...because the oil brokers kids are going to college/dentist/ on a world tour..??...who knows.....
I agree, enjoy it while you can... ;D
I agree Jon. $4.00 a gallon gas will be back soon enough. :o
OPEC is the one allowing the lower price. They've got the money to break the US oil production. Fracking is expensive. Below about $40/barrel it is a losing venture. Some fields have already been shut down. OPEC can take the hit. When the US production is cut back far enough they jack up prices again and have full control. Something to remember though. US production has increased on private and state land. Federal drilling is most likely at an all time low. That's the fault of the liberals.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 03, 2015, 06:52:55 PM
OPEC is the one allowing the lower price. They've got the money to break the US oil production. Fracking is expensive. Below about $40/barrel it is a losing venture. Some fields have already been shut down. OPEC can take the hit. When the US production is cut back far enough they jack up prices again and have full control. Something to remember though. US production has increased on private and state land. Federal drilling is most likely at an all time low. That's the fault of the liberals.
I believe the US is flooding Europe with the fracked oil too....to drive down the demand for the Russian oil..........screwing Putin ;D
I've got my doubts on that Jon. I think the oil we produce is not the oil we are allowed to use here but is legal overseas. Brent light sweet crude is a low sulfur oil from the North Sea. WTI is a bit sweeter though. Not really sure why we actually export oil at all instead of minimizing our imports.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 03, 2015, 07:31:14 PM
I've got my doubts on that Jon. I think the oil we produce is not the oil we are allowed to use here but is legal overseas. Brent light sweet crude is a low sulfur oil from the North Sea. WTI is a bit sweeter though. Not really sure why we actually export oil at all instead of minimizing our imports.
Exactly....that's probably why they can increase the European quotas to help with the mini embargo on the use of Soviet oil....??....but who knows......can't find where I read it...
There's a bunch of theories on why it's down. Some talk about less usage but really given things going on I doubt it.
From my understanding we don't actually export crude only refined product.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 03, 2015, 07:50:04 PM
There's a bunch of theories on why it's down. Some talk about less usage but really given things going on I doubt it.
From my understanding we don't actually export crude only refined product.
Refined would do the trick...allowing for what crude they do get to be used to offset their heating, etc needs...but you're right, we may never know or understand what's happening there for years...??
From the research I've done it's pointing to the OPEC deal.
Yes Jon politics and world affairs runs tied with fish.
By this article, the OPEC decision to fight fracking has paid off in dropping Russia's currency ...the increased European fracking, along with the US fracking are significant contributors to this too...amazing stuff when you find the right info, etc.. the price per barrel of oil from fracking has dropped too, both here and in Europe...but still the US has become a major player in barrels produced....
http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/opecs-holiday-present-helps-everyone-except-frackers
One article I read was claiming that with the drop in prices OPEC could no longer dictate and hold prices high. That they were pretty much irrelevant and going down. Still trying to figure out where this guy put his brain. While OPEC can take the loss the US frackers can't stay in business too long losing money. OPEC has deeper pockets.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 03, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
One article I read was claiming that with the drop in prices OPEC could no longer dictate and hold prices high. That they were pretty much irrelevant and going down. Still trying to figure out where this guy put his brain. While OPEC can take the loss the US frackers can't stay in business too long losing money. OPEC has deeper pockets.
I'm wondering too, that if OPEC decides to reverse itself, can they get all their 'old' market base back? The US (North America ) are producing a vast amount of crude oil now and selling big time. Sure losing money isn't good, but the market share increase is invaluable.....and Europe too is growing away from the OPEC influence.......as bad as the 'pipeline' idea is..it would help introduce massive additional oil on the world market....the differences in the type oil produced tho will be a factor as the market shakes out in the future...each has it's place...
Thanks for that article, Mugs!
Quote from: Mugwump on January 04, 2015, 05:25:33 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 03, 2015, 08:42:52 PM
One article I read was claiming that with the drop in prices OPEC could no longer dictate and hold prices high. That they were pretty much irrelevant and going down. Still trying to figure out where this guy put his brain. While OPEC can take the loss the US frackers can't stay in business too long losing money. OPEC has deeper pockets.
I'm wondering too, that if OPEC decides to reverse itself, can they get all their 'old' market base back? The US (North America ) are producing a vast amount of crude oil now and selling big time. Sure losing money isn't good, but the market share increase is invaluable.....and Europe too is growing away from the OPEC influence.......as bad as the 'pipeline' idea is..it would help introduce massive additional oil on the world market....the differences in the type oil produced tho will be a factor as the market shakes out in the future...each has it's place...
Followed to its logical conclusion they would be the only place to buy oil. Remember OPEC isn't just the Mideast. Get rid of US production first since fracking is so expensive. Russia is about the same time maybe sooner and who's left? BTW we get the majority of our oil from Canada and mexico.
Kind of interesting to watch as this all starts to play out........
The Talking heads place blame on OPEC.........who is basically maintaining production numbers.....and are unwilling to cut production and likely lose market shares..................AGAIN
They disingenuously suggest OPEC started a "price war" with the US and other producers......... while IGNORING the FACT that US oil production has increased tremendously in recent years, and WE.......US PRODUCERS......... have flooded a slowing market.
Im seeing year long low fuel prices this year(and perhaps longer) as it all shakes out.......no one is going to give in and cut production voluntarily.........I see NO benefit to do so.
Meanwhile, in late 2012 the Obama administration set Fuel Efficiency Standards that require US automakers to nearly double the average fuel economy of new cars and trucks by 2025. Current rules mandated an average of about 29 miles per gallon in 2012, with gradual increases to 35.5 m.p.g. by 2016 and eventually to 54.5 miles per gallon for 2025.
It will be interesting to see if "oil money" will be able to BUY themselves a new set of 'rules" in the near future in efforts to help drive up US based oil demand
Here's another similar shot at why OPEC is holding prices....
"Between June and November 2014, oil prices have fallen by some 40 percent, courtesy of robust growth in output and a bleaker outlook for oil demand. In late November, The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) chose to keep its production quotas intact, triggering several obituaries and talks of a price war between OPEC and the United States, where most of the additional supply originates. Yet war is not quite the right term; insurgency is more like it?decentralized, adaptive and, likely, inconclusive. In some ways, OPEC reverts back to its historical role as an important actor on the margins; but in other ways, OPEC confronts a new system where the lag between high prices and high production has shrunk and where the need for spare capacity diminishes."
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/shale-oil-surprise-opec-faces-insurgency-not-price-war-11818
QuoteHere's another similar shot at why OPEC is holding price
In a very GENERIC sense........
OPEC isnt holding "prices".............they simply are NOT willing to throttle back THEIR SUPPLY.
The US and our recent increased supply (driven by a handful of greed driven investors) is AGAIN causing "unrest"........the writing was all over the walls for THIS to happen.....AS IT HAPPENED.
US suppliers
COULD just as easily(As OPEC) cut back OUR additional supply to drive Global PRICES back up............ A Scenario UNLIKELY to happen.
The whole situation is a bit entertaining and educational.
WE Explore for and pump oil here at or near record levels in recent years........ flooding the GLOBAL market with excess oil........and there exists some "confusion" as to who
should or minimally who CAUSED, the global price dive?????
Maybe US oil investors should start looking at beef and milk production in them fields they have been scarfing up to hold em over during these "oil price wars"....... global demand has actually INCREASED while US production has fallen behind.........and consumer prices sent soaring. ;) :)
Quote from: EdKaz on January 05, 2015, 08:44:11 AM
QuoteHere's another similar shot at why OPEC is holding price
In a very GENERIC sense........
OPEC isnt holding "prices".............they simply are NOT willing to throttle back THEIR SUPPLY.
The US and our recent increased supply (driven by a handful of greed driven investors) is AGAIN causing "unrest"........the writing was all over the walls for THIS to happen.....AS IT HAPPENED.
US suppliers COULD just as easily(As OPEC) cut back OUR additional supply to drive Global PRICES back up............ A Scenario UNLIKELY to happen.
The whole situation is a bit entertaining and educational.
WE Explore for and pump oil here at or near record levels in recent years........ flooding the GLOBAL market with excess oil........and there exists some "confusion" as to who should or minimally who CAUSED, the global price dive?????
Maybe US oil investors should start looking at beef and milk production in them fields they have been scarfing up to hold em over during these "oil price wars"....... global demand has actually INCREASED while US production has fallen behind.........and consumer prices sent soaring. ;) :)
I'm glad that you used beef and milk as the example....those crops needed for both industries are being diverted to benefit the ethanol gas additive, limiting what's needed to support both the dairy and cattle populations thus decreasing the herds on hand......supply and demand occurs raising prices ....however, a new glut of fresh cheaper oil hitting the scene should decrease the amount of ethanol purchases needed saving them money....buy even with the reduced fuel costs (delivery charges) consumer prices are static....they're "milking" us both ways..huh? ;D
QuoteI'm glad that you used beef and milk as the example....those crops needed for both industries are being diverted to benefit the ethanol gas additive, limiting what's needed to support both the dairy and cattle populations thus decreasing the herds on hand
Are they REALLY though.............or has WEATHER actually been playing a much larger part in cattle/dairy production numbers?
FWIW most cattle graze in fields until they hit 7-800 pounds and than are moved and simply finished off to 1200 pounds +/- in feed lots.
Ethanol producers and cattle farmers/ feed ACTUALLY go hand in hand to HELP each other..........if it wasnt for the making of feed from/of the waste products of ethanol, ethanol producers would have to pay landfills to haul away and bury their waste..........instead they sell it for animal food.....cheap
They RETURN 1/3 of ever bushel of corn THEY use.......... as byproducts used in/for animal feed (cows chicken pigs fish etc).......... to date, returning more than enough to supply every feedlot in this country.
Have a gander at this article when ya get bored
http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices (http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices)
Quotehowever, a new glut of fresh cheaper oil hitting the scene should decrease the amount of ethanol purchases needed saving them money
............Or provide US oil money mongers yet ANOTHER place to point their crooked fingers, while hurling baseless accusations and fantasy figures, in hopes of support in shutting down "competition"?
Cutting ethanol production now could have a reversed impact on feed and ultimately end cattle prices, (as in Going to RISE) especially in areas where corn is being shipped in, and the Ethanol produced byproducts are being heavily depended on by beef producers.
Quotewith the reduced fuel costs (delivery charges) consumer prices are static....they're "milking" us both ways..huh?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!
Notice the huge price drop in airline tickets.................or the shipping Industry recently??????
Yeah.............ME NEITHER >:(
"" Ethanol producers and cattle farmers/ feed ACTUALLY go hand in hand to HELP each other..........if it wasnt for the making of feed from/of the waste products of ethanol, ethanol producers would have to pay landfills to haul away and bury their waste..........instead they sell it for animal food.....cheap""
So the farmers are selling the corn, then paying to get the waste product back.....LOL the farmer, nor the cattle are winners here........Ethanol producers set the bushel price with demand, then make money in return on the waste... ;D....sure they dodge the 'waste dump' costs....and make money with the end product too....clever?....LOL.....so where does Del Monte and such come in...?? can't sell em the people poop back....LOL.........jk
I heard on NPR this morning that some dairy farmers are moving all their manure to a pit where it decays anerobiclly and makes methane that they make electricity from and sell to the power company. I suppose that's better than nothing.
The way they raise dairy cows these days is a disgrace. Time was a man could make a good living and send his kid to college milking 40 cows. His cows grazed the land and put their manure there. The manure was a benfit not a problem. Cows had names. It's not like that now and we, the animals, and the environment are the worse for it.
(Dang, I went on a rant!)
Have a gander at this article when ya get bored
http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices
I just noticed that this written by a writer for the 'Renewable Fuel Assoc too'...
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2015, 01:55:10 PM
Time was a man could make a good living and send his kid to college milking 40 cows.
We still have those folks around here Liz. They are called farmers in these parts. Them other fellas you refer to, well we call them "Agra-Businessmen".
Dennis
Oh Dennis, are there actually real farmers in your neck of the woods? Jones county, where I live, used to be the dairy county. Take the scenic route through the county and you'll see lots of old milking barns. I'll have to take pics of one that I'm fond of.
We have chicken houses here. The chickens are raised in terrible conditions. Their poo is spread on the ground to fertilize the ground that the steers graze on. The steers then get sent to the feed lots where their poo will be shoveled into a pit and made into electricity. The whole senerio seems screwy to me.
There's still a few places around here where we can get fresh eggs....go up on the porch, make change from the cigar box that you pay for them in....
A pic from my past. The dairy goat became a champion in 3 straight shows. She came from my doe line. I never showed the chickens but they are good quality. They are Light Bramahs and came from McMurrey hatcheries. They laid beautiful brown eggs.
Quoteso where does Del Monte and such come in...??.........can't sell em the people poop back....LOL
Dont look now, but Del Monte returns 100 million Metric tons of organic WASTE to farmers per year for ANIMAL FOOD in North America......Seems they are doing the SAME thing Ethanol producers are......take what they can use and sell it..........than return whats left to farmers as animal feed............. Them Dirty BASTARDS ;) LOL
Quote"Ethanol producers set the bushel price with demand, then make money in return on the waste... ;D....sure they dodge the 'waste dump' costs....and make money with the end product too....clever?"
Almost as "clever" as the farmers who hold back production of dairy products and beef cattle DISINGENUOUSLY claiming the ethanol industry is eating up all the corn, while collecting Govt subsidies and playing a game of production limits aka "supply management" put in play with/BY a government full of crooks being bought and sold.... and gone to shit.
With RECORD harvests in cribs this year and plummeting fuel prices and demand, You reckon we will see a huge increase in dairy and beef production combined with drastic price cuts in the stores......... due to LARGE increases in feed corn supplies, and corns "decreased worth"?
Or......... will we send even MORE corn out of the country to artificially create a corn shortage here, and "excuse away" stagnant HIGH priced beef and dairy products?
"Supply and demand" works in FREE MARKETS........we havent seen but a shadow of THAT in a decade or more here in the states.
QuoteTime was a man could make a good living and send his kid to college milking 40 cows.
.............and than the GREEDY and DISHONEST took over to show everyone how it
SHOULD be done.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
That appears to be one of those 'sky is falling' sites......almost everything on it is alarmist check out counter material.....
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2015, 01:55:10 PM
I heard on NPR this morning that some dairy farmers are moving all their manure to a pit where it decays anerobiclly and makes methane that they make electricity from and sell to the power company. I suppose that's better than nothing.
The way they raise dairy cows these days is a disgrace. Time was a man could make a good living and send his kid to college milking 40 cows. His cows grazed the land and put their manure there. The manure was a benfit not a problem. Cows had names. It's not like that now and we, the animals, and the environment are the worse for it.
(Dang, I went on a rant!)
Cows still have names. Names like Porterhouse, T-Bone, Ribeye, and my personal favorite Ground Chuck. Just don't bother to call him he doesn't have any legs so he won't come to you anyway.
Reminds me of another joke my nephew just told me.
Where can you find a dog with no legs?
Right where you left him.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2015, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
That appears to be one of those 'sky is falling' sites......almost everything on it is alarmist check out counter material.....
another thing they don't tell you is that for the 6 or 7 months before the big drop oil prices hit record highs prompting record high prices for gasoline and diesel fuel. Was it the low oil prices from later in 2008 or the higher gas prices from earlier that had a bigger impact?
I'm not up economics so I can't argue very well like some of you can. All I know is that when I moved my store in the summer of 2007 after I reopened I saw a steady monthly increase in sales from about august 2007 until about may 2008. That's about the time gas hit $4.00 a gallon around here and everything slowed down. Pet stores usually experience a summer slowdown but what happened in 2008 was that it never picked back up in the fall. After a summer of record high gas prices and the housing market collapse and all that other crap the economy had tanked and it was very slow to recover. Perhaps it was the low oil prices that had more of an impact than the high gas prices I don't know. I hear people saying the economy has recovered but I don't see it. It is better than it was 5 years ago for sure but but it sure doesn't seem like people are spending like they were prior to that. Maybe that's a good thing though.
Thanks for providing the cattleman article Ed. I've just recently begun hearing adds on the radio saying the same thing. I know I for one was taken in by the cries of potential food shortages due to so much corn being used for ethanol.
I would like to see more recent statistics and I'd also like to see the effects on the production of food stuffs for human consumption (I know the article mentioned the byproduct being used for corn syrup but that may be a bad thing if its all the high fructose kind. Isn't that what is really screwing up the world...high fructose corn syrup... oh and gluten, don't forget the gluten)
I say I'd like to see them but I'm too lazy to actually look for them myself. Hey, back off, admitting you have a problem is the first step in fixing it right? Of course the second step is actually taking steps to fix it and I'm not up to that point yet but at least I have a start. Anyway, as I was saying I would like to see this other information so if anyone has it at their fingertips, or is perhaps not as lazy as me and would care to look it up and post a link it would be greatly appreciated. I do have my faults I admit but a failure to be properly appreciative is certainly not one of them. I can assure you as long as that proper appreciation does not cost me anything and can be expressed from in front of my computer I can be as appreciative as all get out.
Quote from: sschind on January 07, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2015, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
That appears to be one of those 'sky is falling' sites......almost everything on it is alarmist check out counter material.....
another thing they don't tell you is that for the 6 or 7 months before the big drop oil prices hit record highs prompting record high prices for gasoline and diesel fuel. Was it the low oil prices from later in 2008 or the higher gas prices from earlier that had a bigger impact?
I'm not up economics so I can't argue very well like some of you can. All I know is that when I moved my store in the summer of 2007 after I reopened I saw a steady monthly increase in sales from about august 2007 until about may 2008. That's about the time gas hit $4.00 a gallon around here and everything slowed down. Pet stores usually experience a summer slowdown but what happened in 2008 was that it never picked back up in the fall. After a summer of record high gas prices and the housing market collapse and all that other crap the economy had tanked and it was very slow to recover. Perhaps it was the low oil prices that had more of an impact than the high gas prices I don't know. I hear people saying the economy has recovered but I don't see it. It is better than it was 5 years ago for sure but but it sure doesn't seem like people are spending like they were prior to that. Maybe that's a good thing though.
I agree Steve. Most of those that got burned during the crash, and ensuing economic melt down, became overly cautious with any spending during the recovery period. Even now, as it has recovered, it doesn't seem to have recovered enough. is any, in the prime employment areas. The growth is very weak from the manufacturing, travel, service, retailer, construction, and other industries which are consumer spending main stays. These types of jobs, with static wages, can't keep abreast of the rising costs. Home values have declined, loan stipulations are off the wall, banks pay hardly any interest, and the stock market while flying high...is still viewed as risky by the general population.
Alas, those with funds are making money, those with none to spare are staying barely afloat at best.
Articles...Consumer spending Survey
http://www.bls.gov/cex/
Consumer spending trends
http://www.inc.com/vince-passione/these-4-consumer-spending-trends-are-driving-your-market.html
and for grins....Gallup consumer spending weekly
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127544/consumer-spending-weekly.aspx
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2015, 04:00:50 PM
Quote from: sschind on January 07, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2015, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
That appears to be one of those 'sky is falling' sites......almost everything on it is alarmist check out counter material.....
another thing they don't tell you is that for the 6 or 7 months before the big drop oil prices hit record highs prompting record high prices for gasoline and diesel fuel. Was it the low oil prices from later in 2008 or the higher gas prices from earlier that had a bigger impact?
I'm not up economics so I can't argue very well like some of you can. All I know is that when I moved my store in the summer of 2007 after I reopened I saw a steady monthly increase in sales from about august 2007 until about may 2008. That's about the time gas hit $4.00 a gallon around here and everything slowed down. Pet stores usually experience a summer slowdown but what happened in 2008 was that it never picked back up in the fall. After a summer of record high gas prices and the housing market collapse and all that other crap the economy had tanked and it was very slow to recover. Perhaps it was the low oil prices that had more of an impact than the high gas prices I don't know. I hear people saying the economy has recovered but I don't see it. It is better than it was 5 years ago for sure but but it sure doesn't seem like people are spending like they were prior to that. Maybe that's a good thing though.
I agree Steve. Most of those that got burned during the crash, and ensuing economic melt down, became overly cautious with any spending during the recovery period. Even now, as it has recovered, it doesn't seem to have recovered enough. is any, in the prime employment areas. The growth is very weak from the manufacturing, travel, service, retailer, construction, and other industries which are consumer spending main stays. These types of jobs, with static wages, can't keep abreast of the rising costs. Home values have declined, loan stipulations are off the wall, banks pay hardly any interest, and the stock market while flying high...is still viewed as risky by the general population.
Alas, those with funds are making money, those with none to spare are staying barely afloat at best.
Articles...
Consumer spending Survey
http://www.bls.gov/cex/
Consumer spending trends
http://www.inc.com/vince-passione/these-4-consumer-spending-trends-are-driving-your-market.html
and for grins....Gallup consumer spending weekly
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127544/consumer-spending-weekly.aspx
If this is a recovery it's the slowest I've ever seen.
Those with money are pretty much making it in the market. The question remains though what happens when the Fed stops pouring billions per month into it?
Sad thing is we never seem to learn from history. All this has happened before. Any one remember the S&L debacle? They poured money into the economy during the depression also. Many smart economists think it delayed a recovery by 7 years. Japan poured money into their economy too. They call it the lost decade.
One thing I am 100% absolutely sure of is you can't believe any of the numbers coming out or that have come out in the last 5 years.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2015, 07:43:00 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2015, 04:00:50 PM
Quote from: sschind on January 07, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2015, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-price-of-oil-crashed-like-this/5417215
That appears to be one of those 'sky is falling' sites......almost everything on it is alarmist check out counter material.....
another thing they don't tell you is that for the 6 or 7 months before the big drop oil prices hit record highs prompting record high prices for gasoline and diesel fuel. Was it the low oil prices from later in 2008 or the higher gas prices from earlier that had a bigger impact?
I'm not up economics so I can't argue very well like some of you can. All I know is that when I moved my store in the summer of 2007 after I reopened I saw a steady monthly increase in sales from about august 2007 until about may 2008. That's about the time gas hit $4.00 a gallon around here and everything slowed down. Pet stores usually experience a summer slowdown but what happened in 2008 was that it never picked back up in the fall. After a summer of record high gas prices and the housing market collapse and all that other crap the economy had tanked and it was very slow to recover. Perhaps it was the low oil prices that had more of an impact than the high gas prices I don't know. I hear people saying the economy has recovered but I don't see it. It is better than it was 5 years ago for sure but but it sure doesn't seem like people are spending like they were prior to that. Maybe that's a good thing though.
I agree Steve. Most of those that got burned during the crash, and ensuing economic melt down, became overly cautious with any spending during the recovery period. Even now, as it has recovered, it doesn't seem to have recovered enough. is any, in the prime employment areas. The growth is very weak from the manufacturing, travel, service, retailer, construction, and other industries which are consumer spending main stays. These types of jobs, with static wages, can't keep abreast of the rising costs. Home values have declined, loan stipulations are off the wall, banks pay hardly any interest, and the stock market while flying high...is still viewed as risky by the general population.
Alas, those with funds are making money, those with none to spare are staying barely afloat at best.
Articles...
Consumer spending Survey
http://www.bls.gov/cex/
Consumer spending trends
http://www.inc.com/vince-passione/these-4-consumer-spending-trends-are-driving-your-market.html
and for grins....Gallup consumer spending weekly
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127544/consumer-spending-weekly.aspx
If this is a recovery it's the slowest I've ever seen.
Those with money are pretty much making it in the market. The question remains though what happens when the Fed stops pouring billions per month into it?
Sad thing is we never seem to learn from history. All this has happened before. Any one remember the S&L debacle? They poured money into the economy during the depression also. Many smart economists think it delayed a recovery by 7 years. Japan poured money into their economy too. They call it the lost decade.
One thing I am 100% absolutely sure of is you can't believe any of the numbers coming out or that have come out in the last 5 years.
I'd rather remain optimistic, myself.......your skepticism is shared by many, as I stated above....when the economy tanked it created a aura of caution by many....this alone has slowed spending and recovery...until there is a time coming when all is running well....it'll likely remain an issue...
I'd rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Either way you're covered.
Most of the problem is business owners don't really know what will fall next. And so many policies just aren't conducive to expanding a business in the US.