I know how...I have been preoccupied with other fish matters lately and haven't spent much time looking at my Angels.
I'm working on this Half Black/Pearl Scale cross. I finally was sitting down looking at my one tank of expressing HB Angels and I see shiny! I go look closer and a bunch of them are shiny. Most are not but a bunch are. I knew that there was a chance that my female carried HB carried the PS gene, but the chances were one in four or one in eight (I can't do math).
I got lucky! I got what I wanted without hardly trying! Now I need to choose the best and sell the rest. Whoo hoo!
That's great news. Congratulations.
Sweet.....yep, pearl scale is a recessive gene needing a copy from each parent to express. If you have regular HB to get rid of, I like some....Frank is working heavily on different phenotype HB's , but I'd like to have some regular expressing to work with for another project.
When I get them separated out I'll send pics of what's left, Mug. They're all good fish, some express more fully than others.
Dang, I need to set up 2 20 gallon tanks in a place that isn't hard plumbed for water yet. That's OK. I have water storage drums that I can fill with a hose and a sump pump I can use for WC. I'm a nut case when it comes to changing water. Discus people are that way.
I can't believe that I'm so excited about what I used to call "stupid Angels" :-[
Thanx.....and yes, spawns can do that to ya.. ;D ...I've got 3 tanks of parent raisers going at this time, it's hard to walk away from watching them. Oh, the 'virgin' Koi pair laid again, I'm anxious to see to see how far they take this spawn. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post a photo of them Liz
I will, but Mug has first dibs on the leftovers. You will have to hold your fishy yearning horses and either take the left overs of the left overs or wait until the HBXPS's to mature and spawn.
George, you know that I like you and I know that you have had a very hard time buying from me. I can't help it. It's just the way it has worked out.
That's awesome Liz.
I just wanted to see what yours look like Liz I am not expecting to get any from you because I know you have a limited number of them. I see Marks Discus has some on his website so I will see about getting them from him next month.
Congratulations.
I just set up the tanks I'll be putting them into, George. As soon as the water warms up and I'm sure the heaters are doing right I'll separate them and take pics.
Here are the ones I'm selling. There are only 8 of them, I'm afraid
These are two that I am keeping. There are 7 of them! Here are the two best.
One more of the for sale group.
They look good Liz
lol, it said that you were on at DaaH so I PM'd you about them there. Please, when you have time give me more than, "nice fish". I know nothing about Angles so it would be a great help to me. I don't care if you do it on the open forum or via PM. I have a good thick skin.
I agree, they look very nice. The regular veil look exceptional...nice round bodies, good finage, and click on the 'magnify' + sign..scroll in on the bodies and fins...see the broken striations?..the faded out line of multiple bars?....unlike George's PB Silver ghost, where it's just an educated guess....I definitely see the Zebra gene there.....If you got any non-expressing ,from this batch, were they Zebra's?......
Them are some pretty angels Liz.
Quote from: Mugwump on October 20, 2013, 06:33:07 PM
I agree, they look very nice. The regular veil look exceptional...nice round bodies, good finage, and click on the 'magnify' + sign..scroll in on the bodies and fins...see the broken striations?..the faded out line of multiple bars?....unlike George's PB Silver ghost, where it's just an educated guess....I definitely see the Zebra gene there.....If you got any non-expressing ,from this batch, were they Zebra's?......
Oh yeah, Mug. The first cross I made was to a high finned but not quite veil Zebra from Angels Plus who apparently carried the Pearl Scale gene to a Standard Half Black from George. I've been working with these guys for several generations although I considered them "stupid Angels". I can't believe the variation in the finnage I've seen from them. Everything from veils to wide finned.
If you're looking for pure bred half blacks these will not be your cup of tea. They're a bunch of mutts. All the non expressing ones are Zebra's.
'Mutts', yep, but double dose HB for sure....they'll fit the 'tinker' project just fine. :D..he he, I may drag Scott into it too... ;D
They have been fun for me to play with, that's all I know.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 20, 2013, 07:16:37 PM
They have been fun for me to play with, that's all I know.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.....along with that sweet air pump.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on October 20, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
'Mutts', yep, but double dose HB for sure....they'll fit the 'tinker' project just fine. :D..he he, I may drag Scott into it too... ;D
What are your plan on tinkering with them? I have the HE female waiting in the community tank for a project ;D
Quote from: b125killer on October 20, 2013, 08:04:51 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on October 20, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
'Mutts', yep, but double dose HB for sure....they'll fit the 'tinker' project just fine. :D..he he, I may drag Scott into it too... ;D
What are your plan on tinkering with them? I have the HE female waiting in the community tank for a project ;D
Me too ;D..but possibly something else.. ;D
Mutts are great! All different things come out that you didn't know where came from. It's a blast! How I got the variation in finnage from the first cross I will never know. I guess I selected what most rang my bell and then selected what most rang my bell in the next generation and it becomes an ongoing thing. It's fun! It's what breeding is all about!
Don't tinker to much and lose the HB trait as non expressing. Spawn the pair and produce some fry then tinker
Quote from: GeorgeG on October 21, 2013, 07:07:03 AM
Don't tinker to much and lose the HB trait as non expressing. Spawn the pair and produce some fry then tinker
George is right. Keep the line 'tight' for a bit. You can even do a sibling/parent cross back to solidify the good expression that you're getting now. HB can be persnickety, so when you have good results, stay the course. Even and 'outside' HB crossed into your line may blow the expression for a few generations.
Keeping it tight will be no problem as these 7 Angles I'm keeping are the only Angles that I own. It is already pretty tight as they all go back to the first cross I made between a Zebra and Half Black. I've always been pleasantly surprised at the high percentage of my spawns would express and at how young they were when they started to turn. I got lucky with that group of good HB's from George that I started with.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 21, 2013, 10:03:17 AM
Keeping it tight will be no problem as these 7 Angles I'm keeping are the only Angles that I own. It is already pretty tight as they all go back to the first cross I made between a Zebra and Half Black. I've always been pleasantly surprised at the high percentage of my spawns would express and at how young they were when they started to turn. I got lucky with that group of good HB's from George that I started with.
Excellent ;D
QuoteI got lucky with that group of good HB's from George that I started with.
Now spawn those so I can buy some back please
Quote from: GeorgeG on October 21, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
QuoteI got lucky with that group of good HB's from George that I started with.
Now spawn those so I can buy some back please
LOL....you tell her, George...... ;D
The ones I got from you are long gone, George. These ones with their blood in them are the only ones I have left.
If there are ever any extras available I am interested too!
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
I'll let y'all know when I start seeing breeding behavior I'll let y'all know. They're still too young to have started thinking about that stuff.
The line is the most important part of the Half black. Fish that have any sort of incomplete line are showing a non expression tendency. Once you have your base phenotypes set you want to focus on keeping the best lined fish as your brood stock. Since the pearls are all minimally het I would keep the Hb's with the best line of Hb separation from them not just the ones expressing the pearl. If they are all het pearl anyway it's better to grab the best expressing Hb's. If you keep the fish with lateral rays or blotches you are going to focus the deleterious that causes that and on the next gens you are going to have a lot more of them and a lesser ratio of expression. Once you lock in your base pheno. cull away all of the deleterious and imediately started building towards pattern strength on the hb line of definition.
The fish that Leslie James had that shows Hb Hb Pb Pb as a barred silver is on Villas City of Angels face book page. Everyone is having a hard time recreating blue expression on these fish. Take a close look at that fish. For those who work with albino and use gold to pop their Pb coloration you will recognize what is in this fish to pop the Pb. I see albino present but I am not certain that I see gold. Pb, Gold and albino make a bright blue fish, Pb and albino make a bright sky blue fish, Pb and gold make a deep blue Pb fish. This makes for a complex situation when creating a Pb Pb Hb Hb angelfish doesn't it? ;)
I have two nice fish with a line that is not well defined. They are not worth keeping, right?
Keep all of them if you don't have a lot of fish that are half black. You can work with them to see what they produce. If you have a lot of fish and no space then work towards keeping only the ones with the best line.