I noticed a bunch of water on the floor when I was feeding and discovered that my 105 G tank (glass) had a big split in a veritcal seam. It was bugled out 1/8" to 1/4" but was mostly still clogged with silicon.
I moved the fish and siphoned the tank.
Now I have to figure out what to do.
Its an old tank (maybe 20, thick glass) I got cheap when the Wet Spot, in Portland, was turning over some tanks.
Thank goodness you saw it and were able to save the fish. Resiliconing a tank isn't hard. With a tank that old, resilicone the entire tank, not just the seam where it leaked.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 27, 2014, 09:15:26 PM
Thank goodness you saw it and were able to save the fish. Resiliconing a tank isn't hard. With a tank that old, resilicone the entire tank, not just the seam where it leaked.
+1
I thought you always HAD to reseal the whole tank,stripping out all the old,because silicone doesn't stick to silicone very well.And water might get in between and still leak after repair.
Quote from: ghonk on October 28, 2014, 01:51:01 AM
I thought you always HAD to reseal the whole tank,stripping out all the old,because silicone doesn't stick to silicone very well......
That's what I always do. It's not really a big deal though. Get some single edge razor blades and remove all the silicone from inside the tank. You don't need to take the tank apart, just remove all the silicone from inside the tank.
At this point the silicone between the glass will still be holding the tank together. Wipe all the joints inside with Acetone to get them perfectly clean just before applying the new silicone. I like to use a caulking gun and apply the silicone to the vertical joints first and then go around the entire bottom before smoothing everything out with my finger. On a big tank you need to keep things moving so the silicone doesn't start to "skin" before you get it all applied. I let everything cure for 24 hours before adding water to the tank.
I get my acetone and silicone, (GE Silicone 1) from the local Lowes store. You will likely find all kinds of recommendations for the proper silicone to use, but like UaruJoey on YouTube, I use the GE Silicone 1 with very good results.
Dennis
I used the 'Loctite' caulk on the 130....sealed real well....doesn't take much either....
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/6/22/cntct_silicone/overview/Loctite-Clear-Silicone-Waterproof-Sealant.htm (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/6/22/cntct_silicone/overview/Loctite-Clear-Silicone-Waterproof-Sealant.htm)
I had no idea that Locktite made a silicone sealant. I'll stick with my GE #1.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 31, 2014, 07:38:42 PM
I had no idea that Locktite made a silicone sealant. I'll stick with my GE #1.
Oh I like my GE 1.....but given the tank size, and 'Loctite's' reputation ....I figured why not seal it, and secure it a bit better.....it's little pricey for the amount that you get in a tube, but worth it for the bonding properties.....
It IS a silicone, right? I use the GE 1 because it does not contain fungicide like most silicones.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 31, 2014, 07:56:57 PM
It IS a silicone, right? I use the GE 1 because it does not contain fungicide like most silicones.
follow the link..it's completely aquarium safe.... 8)
It comes in a little bitty tube! I have big tanks. Little bitty tubes are only worth the price if they're better than the stuff I can put in the caulk gun. Where does is say how it bonds better than GE 1?.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 31, 2014, 08:15:04 PM
It comes in a little bitty tube! I have big tanks. Little bitty tubes are only worth the price if they're better than the stuff I can put in the caulk gun. Where does is say how it bonds better than GE 1?.
It's best to use what you feel comfortable with.........'Loctite products are know for their securing. and bonding of materials....that's what the name implies and what they first built the reputation on years ago.....
It states not recommended for tanks over 30 gallons, but I didn't break the tank down...I simply cleaned up the exposed caulk and re-sealed the bottom and corners....the tank didn't leak anyway..I did it to be sure the exposed caulk wasn't dried out, or was ineffective, and I figured the additional bonding of the Loctite caulk was just a plus....as I didn't know how long it may have sat empty..........GE #1....actually isn't recommended/warrantied for aquariums at all, by GE......but works nicely, being 100% silicone....aquarium folks have used it for years....
Quote from: Mugwump on October 31, 2014, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 31, 2014, 08:15:04 PM
It comes in a little bitty tube! I have big tanks. Little bitty tubes are only worth the price if they're better than the stuff I can put in the caulk gun. Where does is say how it bonds better than GE 1?.
It's best to use what you feel comfortable with.........'Loctite products are know for their securing. and bonding of materials....that's what the name implies and what they first built the reputation on years ago.....
It states not recommended for tanks over 30 gallons, but I didn't break the tank down...I simply cleaned up the exposed caulk and re-sealed the bottom and corners....the tank didn't leak anyway..I did it to be sure the exposed caulk wasn't dried out, or was ineffective, and I figured the additional bonding of the Loctite caulk was just a plus....as I didn't know how long it may have sat empty..........GE #1....actually isn't recommended/warrantied for aquariums at all, by GE......but works nicely, being 100% silicone....aquarium folks have used it for years....
Even some of the ones with mildewcide say 100% silicone. The main difference between GE1 and the RTV is shear strength. For building a large tank I sure would look for the right silicone. Not GE1. BTW I will be resealing a few of my 22 and 8 breeders with the GE1 when I get around to needing them.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 27, 2014, 09:15:26 PM
Thank goodness you saw it and were able to save the fish. Resiliconing a tank isn't hard. With a tank that old, resilicone the entire tank, not just the seam where it leaked.
If the outter silicone bead (the thin one between the glass panels has separated, I would also advise a complete tear-down and re-build. It's not difficult, but if you've never done it, or worked with silicones, it can be a painful exercise. In terms of the time you'll invest as well as materials, you may want to at least consider just replacing anything at 55G or smaller. The Petco sale can replace a 55G for $55 where you'll spend $30 on silicone alone. As tanks get bigger, the glass gets thicker and the $ per gallon goes up exponentionally so tear-downs start to make more sense. Also, plan on springing for pizza a beer for the extra hands you'll need to set the panels up correctly once you're ready to re-assemble.
With bigger tanks I'd also recommend a silicone with a higher shear strength too. Momentive (used to be a GE product) adhesives (get it from Grainger) is what I would use on bigger tank tear-downs. I got into a long discussion over all of this some years ago with a Dow chemist who actually formulated and tested sealants, and learned a freakin' ton.
No way I would bother tearing down a 55. Try just removing the old silicone and replacing it with new. It will probably work.
I broke down a 100 and rebuilt it once. I was able to do it without help because I was able to get it apart without breaking the bottom trim. I used the bottom trim and clamps to hold things in place while I worked. This was about 12 years ago and the tank is still in use in my fish room.
I appreciate this discussion about sealants. We don't have a Grainers down here but I can buy the Momentive on line. There are 2. They have INdustrial Silicone sealant and RTV silicone sealant. Which is the one I should get?
RTV.
I would even balk at re-buidling a 75G, but everybody comes at this stuff from different angles. So it's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all type of decision.
I wish I had kept the link to the test reports on the shear strength of various adhesives that the guy from Dow had sent me. It told quite a story. But that was over 10 years ago when I was building frag tanks and sumps during the SW days. The names and product lines have changed quite a bit since then. The GE Momentive line had a bunch of different products back then. So LOTS has changed since then.
Just like there was a time when a tube of GE1 was really cheap. Like a few bucks. That's just not the case anymore. I made sumps with GE1 a long time ago, but they were all eurobraced and shallow to fit space constraints in my fish room, so I never had much to worry about. If you have both handy, just take quick sniff of GE1 vs. pure silicone, even the AGA stuff you can get at a LFS smells like pure acetic acid by comparison. Lots of people call it pure silicone, but acetic acid gets your attention real fast.
That's a really neat trick using the bottom trim for an alignment jig! But I'd still spring for the pizza and beer, lol!
Quote from: Bushkill on November 03, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
RTV.
That's a really neat trick using the bottom trim for an alignment jig! But I'd still spring for the pizza and beer, lol!
Loner types have to be resourceful ;) RTV it is. Thanks for the info.
AS I have been slowly dealing with htis aquarium, I noticed that the top frame corner where the seam split is broken apart.
I guess Ill have to remove it and glue it back together.
A friend also suggested gluing a piece of glass across the top of the end for added support.
Grazy glue will hold the trim together just fine. Just give it time to set well.
I bought a used 90G a long time ago. I knew it had been used for SW. But that was back in the day of Metal Halides. Those things were brutal on plastic cross-braces. Mine broke about 2 years after I got it, and of course the break was right where the cross-brace meets the edge. I cut a piece of clear acrylic into a T-shape to cover the areas on either side of the break well. Crazy glued it in place and the tank's been fine for about 10 years now.
I think what's been suggested to you is eurobracing. Honestly, I'm a big fan, but it isn't just a simple strip of glass siliconed in place at the tank's mid-section. There are a few eurobracing methods, but they all involves siliconing strips of glass to the top rim of the tank and in some cases a center strip siliconed to strips running the tank's front and back edges. It all depends on the dimensions of the tank really. Four feet and longer, I would choose a pattern that involved a center strip.]
Probably one of the worst example of eurbracing is the the old Oceanic brand of jumbo tanks. On 180's and bigger they came with an IMMENSE glass centerbrace that was siliconed in place. I should know.....I have one. It's a 2 foot square 1/2" glass panel siliconed over the middle of the tank's top rim. I need a snorkel to get to anything that's at the bottom middle of that tank. I should've removed it and added my own, but it was dirt cheap and I was pressed for time. Lesson learned.............a little late.
I have one of those older tanks too...besides the glass being a foot thick...LOL...the center brace could be used for a table....and it's the same 3/4" thick glass....man those tanks are heavy...really...but solid as a tank...
Quote from: Mugwump on November 03, 2014, 01:52:02 PM
I have one of those older tanks too...besides the glass being a foot thick...LOL...the center brace could be used for a table....and it's the same 3/4" thick glass....man those tanks are heavy...really...but solid as a tank...
They had to be heavy. That centerbrace has enough glass to build another 55G! The only tank I've owned I couldn't move by myself. And I had to buy 8" tweezers and scissors so I can care for the plants in the middle. Gottem' after I tried the snorkel, lol!
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquariumsilicone.html
Rvt 103,, RVT 108
I have a old 125 gal. that needs resealed. It is real old, the kind that is real thick glass and heavy as hell. It is so thick of glass it doesn't even have a center brace on top. Any ways i bought 3 tubes of GE1. Are you guy's telling me that i should of bought some other brand?
My tank has two cross braces near the middle (6 foot tank) but none at the end, so doing that at the ends kind of makes sense, plus the split seam is right there.
It's not as critical on a reseal as on building / rebuilding a tanks. The silicone in the joint already is holding the tank together. What you're adding is to make it watertight so there really isn't a ton of shear pressure.
Wel there is a big gap at the seam, maybe 1/4". The silicon is still sticking to the glass enough to keep most of the water from gushing out, but its not really sealed.
Even without any water in it now there is still a large gap there. The silicon has probably been jammed between the glass at some point and is keeping it separated.
I'll probably cut out everything I can get to before resealing it.
Quote from: ilroost on November 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
I have a old 125 gal. that needs resealed. It is real old, the kind that is real thick glass and heavy as hell. It is so thick of glass it doesn't even have a center brace on top. Any ways i bought 3 tubes of GE1. Are you guy's telling me that i should of bought some other brand?
I had one of those. Full 1/2" glass panels and no cross braces at all. In fact the top trim wasn't even one-piece. It was four mitered sections siliconed in place.
I ended up dismantling that tank altogether and still have some of the panels. Learned a lot in the process. The 1/2" panels had small clear plastic "spacers" between each panel. Looked just like the bumpers some cabinet doors have to keep them from slamming on the frame. Except these were a little smaller and a hard clear plastic. They were all embedded in the outter silicone bead. After asking around quite a bit, I found out what they were for. With 1/2" glass, the weight of the panels starved for silicone. It was a really simple way of assuring a uniform silicone bead thickness between the panels. Made perfect sense after reading about it.
Same tank then. Mine is a black trim top and bottom. 4 pieces glued together.
Dang this thing is heavy
QuoteI ended up dismantling that tank altogether and still have some of the panels. Learned a lot in the process. The 1/2" panels had small clear plastic "spacers" between each panel. Looked just like the bumpers some cabinet doors have to keep them from slamming on the frame. Except these were a little smaller and a hard clear plastic. They were all embedded in the outter silicone bead. After asking around quite a bit, I found out what they were for. With 1/2" glass, the weight of the panels starved for silicone. It was a really simple way of assuring a uniform silicone bead thickness between the panels. Made perfect sense after reading about it.
Sounds like the little spacers for doing tile and easily getting a uniform amount of space for grout between the tiles.
A true back breaker. Don't forget it's 1/2" on the bottom too!
I had no trouble when I bought a newer 125, getting from the store to the house and setting it on the stand by myself.
THAT 125 made two of us sweat.
But they were designed for use in SW systems during the Metal Halide lighting phase. With no center brace, there was no shadow from the MH lamps or from T5's. And best of all, MH would break down the plastic in those braces real quick. What it didn't crack it melted. There weren't many of them made because of the weight. I wish I knew who the Mfr. was just for curiosity's sake.
Yup, same concept. Very simple alignment jigs. Except here, they also compensated for the weight factor of a 6 foot panel of glass that weighed in the area of 80 pounds.