Eggsperimenting

[Mugwump]

OK so here we are, I've got wigglers in fresh RODI water, laid on Friday morning. Just let them percolate and see what happens? Siphon out a little water per day and replace with aged tank water? Am I missing anything? Do you give them a stir when you walk by, reposition the air stone periodically? Leave them alone until day 7 and wait to for them to come up off the bottom?

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You're over mothering.....just start doing 10% water changes on the fry with aged tap..that will make their water eventually more like your tank water...remember to get the replacement water as close to the water temp in the jar as possible.....it does make a difference with young fry...nuke the water if you have to....I do..

...but for the pair, try using 50% RO/50% treated tap water to help get their tank tds's/PH down a bit more....that's all...

no stirring....yada yada.....or anything....


...Lots of folks use jars...lined up in a 5/10 gal with a heater to keep them warm....myself, I use 2 1/2 gal. tanks...

[LizStreithorst]

Get the TDS down to around 90 for the pair.  See how the hatch rate is.  If it's low, take the TDS down to 80.  90 is generally good but everyone's water is different. 

I don't know about raising fry in jars but if they were in a tank I'd start doing WC with straight aged tap.

[wallace]

Have you been ageing your water for water changes in the fry jars? Its possible that this is contributing to the troubles. You might not need to age for the grownups, but fry are sensitive to excess gases and pH swings.

I use jars inside a bigger tank for hatching the Rams (they are smaller than the little end of nothing) and do 4 water changes per day at first, with aged water. Ageing insures that the water chemistry is consistent and allows for bigger water changes without shocks.

[LizStreithorst]

You are absolutely right, Dan.

[nix70c]

I was pulling water from established tanks that hadn't had water changed in at least 3 days, the parent tank when possible. I'm going to pull aside a clean 5g bucket with new tap water, prime it and stick in an air stone. The fish room stays 80-82 so temp won't be an issue.

Man I've seen jars work great with my own eyes. Roger out in north central Iowa (not sure if he's on here) just fills up a goldfish bowl from the parent tank, drops in 1/4tsp meth blue, air stone and the slate, and clamps it inside the parent tank. Changes a couple cups of water a day, like clockwork in a week he has a little cloud of free swimmers.

In the beginning I was very hands off, set it up and forget it. As time went on I just started trying anything I could think of to try and understand what the problem is.



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[wallace]

24 hours is plenty for ageing.

For cleaning the bottom of the jar I wrap a little floss around the end of a rigid air tube and keep it there with a rubber band. Then rub it on the bottom - siphoning - like a little vacuum cleaner. Keeps the crud from mixing into the water.

[nix70c]

I hope you guys never have to go through this chloramine nightmare. Our water company publishes they are dosing 1-3ppm chloramine so who knows the actual number. But I can tell you if I put water in with wigglers from an established tank that had a water change less than 3 days ago it will kill them all. You don't know how many times it took for that to happen before I figured it out..

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[wallace]

Prime detoxifies the ammonia remnant of chloramine, but only temporarily (24-48 hours). If you want to experiment, put some tap water in a bucket, add Prime at 2 drops per gallon, stir, then test for ammonia. It still shows up on the API drop test even though it is made harmless. There will typically be 0.25 to 0.5 ppm of ammonia showing.

When you add treated water to a tank, the biofilter removes this small amount quickly, long before the ammonia becomes toxic again. In a fry tank without a biofilter you are making such frequent water changes that you shouldn't need to worry about chloramine.

[Mugwump]

...just a thought, there municipalities that ramp up their chemical dosage over the warmer summer months...them back off in the fall...yours could be such a town..??

[Mugwump]

...How's the spawn doing Alex ?

[nix70c]

Monday evening I did the big water change on the wigglers with RODI water, all was well. I made up a 5g bucket of tap water, added prime and an air stone at that time. Tuesday evening I changed about 1/4 the water with water from a 75g tank, no problem. It hadn't quite been 24 hours. Wednesday evening I did the same thing but used water from the bucket. Thursday (yesterday) morning everything was dead. I'm telling you guys, Chloramine is no joke. On paper you think OK, add prime, wait 24 hours to age and it's good. I guess I will look at using RODI water again and adding back some trace minerals suggested previously.

On a lighter note I had two new pair lay eggs this week. Didn't pull them, wanted to see how they did. Both ate them but not right away, so there's hope!

[Mugwump]

Monday evening I did the big water change on the wigglers with RODI water, all was well. I made up a 5g bucket of tap water, added prime and an air stone at that time. Tuesday evening I changed about 1/4 the water with water from a 75g tank, no problem. It hadn't quite been 24 hours. Wednesday evening I did the same thing but used water from the bucket. Thursday (yesterday) morning everything was dead. I'm telling you guys, Chloramine is no joke. On paper you think OK, add prime, wait 24 hours to age and it's good. I guess I will look at using RODI water again and adding back some trace minerals suggested previously.

On a lighter note I had two new pair lay eggs this week. Didn't pull them, wanted to see how they did. Both ate them but not right away, so there's hope!

....yeppers..they're spiking your water big time....that sucks...

[nix70c]

Lesson learned, I'm not crazy [emoji1]

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[wallace]

I would do it a different way...

You added the Prime and then used the water 2.5 days later. You should age the water, then add the prime just before water change. That way the Prime is still working.

If you add prime before ageing the water, it wipes out the antibacterial property of chlorine/chloramine, which allows bacteria to grow in the ageing water, and then by the time you use the water the Prime is worn off and you have toxic ammonia again.

Per Seachem's website...

"Prime will bind both ammonia and nitrite in a non toxic form for 24 hours, allowing the bacterial colony enough time to consume it before it harms fish..."

If they are spiking the water, you can check by measuring the ammonia the way I described earlier.

[Mugwump]

I would do it a different way...

You added the Prime and then used the water 2.5 days later. You should age the water, then add the prime just before water change. That way the Prime is still working.

If you add prime before ageing the water, it wipes out the antibacterial property of chlorine/chloramine, which allows bacteria to grow in the ageing water, and then by the time you use the water the Prime is worn off and you have toxic ammonia again.

Per Seachem's website...

"Prime will bind both ammonia and nitrite in a non toxic form for 24 hours, allowing the bacterial colony enough time to consume it before it harms fish..."

If they are spiking the water, you can check by measuring the ammonia the way I described earlier.

...agreed, might work better....but I'd do a trial run first..........the RO will work, then blend the other water in so to acclimate....even then, I'd wait til the fry would be big enough to transfer....