Mugwump's Fish World

THE POND-THE FRESHWATER PLACE => Angelfish => Topic started by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 08:56:36 AM

Title: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 08:56:36 AM
Is it common for people to cross domestic angels with wild altums? It would be an interesting challenge, but not sure at all what I would end up with. Better shape, maybe.
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 09:31:40 AM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 08:56:36 AM
Is it common for people to cross domestic angels with wild altums? It would be an interesting challenge, but not sure at all what I would end up with. Better shape, maybe.

I think most of the Altum crosses are being done with Peruvians....not a true Altum......even the Dantums are more likely Peruvians....the background lineage is questionable....
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
Found an interesting article which I'm sure you have seen. I would want to try Rio Atabapo altums, more for shape than for color. Snookn has some now.

http://www.dph.nl/article/cat-04/peruvian.shtml
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 10:02:51 AM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
Found an interesting article which I'm sure you have seen. I would want to try Rio Atabapo altums, more for shape than for color. Snookn has some now.

http://www.dph.nl/article/cat-04/peruvian.shtml

...follow this along as well.....Ken started it..

http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=34151 (http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=34151)
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:18:53 AM
I had read that a while back and thats the shape I like. Its all so mysterious... if the goal is an altum-like shape, why use SI scalare?... or am I getting myself confused -LOL
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 10:24:40 AM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:18:53 AM
I had read that a while back and thats the shape I like. Its all so mysterious... if the goal is an altum-like shape, why use SI scalare?... or am I getting myself confused -LOL

..the Sta Isabel has been probably one of the closest scalare to the some of the desired 'Altum' characteristics....one gorgeous angel IMHO  |^|
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 10:35:15 AM
some that I had....more fry growing out now....

(http://www.slickpic.com/pic/url/12805865/MTI0NjA2YjQxMDA3NzA,20160805MTI4MDU4NjUwMTBi/photo/1000)

(http://www.slickpic.com/pic/url/12805841/MTI0NjA2YjQxMDA3NzA,20160805MTI4MDU4NDFiYjRi/photo/1000)
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 05, 2016, 10:45:02 AM
Jon is right and those fish that he has/had are drop dead gorgeous. It's been "rumored" that Scalare and Altum have spawned but I don't think there is documented evidence of that. If anyone has the "evidence" please ledt us know. |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:50:46 AM
Willie, maybe I'll have the evidence for you in a few months... Ha! Why not dream big, eh.

Jon, that sponge has been around for a while looks like. I just ordered about 6 of the cubes with 'cubelifters' to try out.
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 10:58:11 AM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:50:46 AM
Willie, maybe I'll have the evidence for you in a few months... Ha! Why not dream big, eh.

Jon, that sponge has been around for a while looks like. I just ordered about 6 of the cubes with 'cubelifters' to try out.

...yes, I have many older sponges that have been around seemly forever, like old friends...it'd be hard to see them go....so I just keep cycling them in when I clean/change them out of the tanks......
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 05, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 10:58:11 AM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:50:46 AM
Willie, maybe I'll have the evidence for you in a few months... Ha! Why not dream big, eh.

Jon, that sponge has been around for a while looks like. I just ordered about 6 of the cubes with 'cubelifters' to try out.

...yes, I have many older sponges that have been around seemly forever, like old friends...it'd be hard to see them go....so I just keep cycling them in when I clean/change them out of the tanks......

I hope you are successful.  |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: ghonk on August 05, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 10:50:46 AM
Willie, maybe I'll have the evidence for you in a few months... Ha! Why not dream big, eh.

Jon, that sponge has been around for a while looks like. I just ordered about 6 of the cubes with 'cubelifters' to try out.

REAL Altums  have to be a lot older before breeding,tank raised maybe  sooner but i'm guessing still would need to be quite a bit older.   
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 01:59:35 PM
I'm beginning to understand... these are taxonomically different species, and it has likely never been done before? I assumed that wild crosses were with altums, but this is not the case apparently. I need to do some more reading. The stuff on the forums (TAS & finarama) is way over my head.

Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: ghonk on August 05, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
Altums are a lot more difficult to breed then scalare,as far as a cross i think the best way would be to use a proven Altum male and a scalare female.
I did read someone did the cross,but the offspring didn't survive,i think they died before free swimming,or soon after.

Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 06:54:48 PM
Yes, if they are anything like heckles it will be the wild male, so that makes sense. I know that Mike (19ghost79) has had some great success lately with altums.

Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 06:54:48 PM
Yes, if they are anything like heckles it will be the wild male, so that makes sense. I know that Mike (19ghost79) has had some great success lately with altums.

Yes he did....Willie has some of those from Mike.... |^|
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wallace on August 05, 2016, 07:11:02 PM
Cool...they did disappear pretty fast.  ;)  I've got the right water already so I wouldn't have to make two kinds of water.
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: ghonk on August 05, 2016, 07:59:09 PM
Yes Mike did great with his,i started to suggest for him to try the Altum X scalare cross,since he already has the fish available.
But he might have thought i was crazy,and looked at it as sacrilegious. :)

I have wanted to do a Santa Isabel X Domestic cross for several years,with Isabel being the most Altum LIKE.
But finding a proven male that someone would be willing to sell would be very unlikely.
Wild caught  Isabel seem to be as hard to breed as Altum,i know a couple experienced breeders who had no luck at all.   
Title: Re: Altum Cross?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 06, 2016, 08:59:00 AM
The ones I got from Mike are doing great but they are a long term project. They won't be sexually mature for another 1.5 years. I do have an adult wild one in with them that is most likely ready but it has no mate and I don't know what sex it is.