Dang, Another Pair Spawned!

[LizStreithorst]

My water is too hard to breed in.  I move the pair to a breeding tank and decrease the conductivity with daily WC with RO.  I've also had fry by adding a bag of peat to the tap water.  The Discus really like the peat water, but RO is easier.

I live in the boonies, and I have Discus.  Shipping is your friend when it comes to buying Discus, unless you live close to someone like me.  I've only sold Discus to 3 locals in all the time I've been raising them. 

Pet shop Discus are 99 and 44/100ths poor quality and over priced.  I'll tell you why.  They are over priced because the Discus are expensive in the first place.  The shop owners need to make a profit.  The shop owners know that they will loose some fish to cross contimiation from what the fish from their normal suppliers are immune to but the Discus have never been exposed to.  They will also loose some because they don't know how to keep Discus.  (they don't know why the fish die, they just know that they start looking miserable and die.

They quality is poor because no breeder or importer would sell his best fish to the fish store when their are individuals they can sell them to who have a who have a clue as to what a good Discus is supposed to look like.  The quality  is also poor because these clean fish are tossed into an environment full of pathogens and parasites they don't have antibodies against. 

A lot of the internet suppliers sell crap, too.  A few sell high quality fish.  I've been around long enough to know whose who.   If you decide to play with Discus I hope that you will check with me on recomendations of where to buy before you buy.

[PaulineMi]

Yes I would check around and certainly appreciate your offer to help. 

I learned the hard way that LFS fish can cause disappointment and even some heartbreak. In addition I've discovered I'm not a failure at keeping fish. Mysterious deaths and illnesses have ceased to be a problem now that I get my fish from breeders.

Its encouraging to hear that discus can thrive in hard water out in the boonies. My angels do fine and I have the same situation. Things only need to be changed for raising a spawn.

Once discus reach adulthood do they still require multiple large water changes each week?

[LizStreithorst]

Discus thrive in water in the high 9's as far as pH.  That's some hard water.  Some people can even breed in a pH in the 8's.  I've been told that it's due to which minerals are in your water not how many minerals.  I think that a high gH is fine, but a high Kh is not fine.  I wish that thing about Discus needing soft water to do well would disappear from the Discus literature.  It persists and people believe it.  They need soft water only to breed.

Sweet heart, I hate to burst your bubble, but Discus need daily water change.  I do at least 30% daily.  It's easy peasy with a good pump.

[PaulineMi]

I have a convenient set up with floor drains, nearby water source and a nice little self priming Wayne water pump.
So...what about a planted tank?   And can a person go away for a week and leave a discus tank?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm not real knowledgable about planted but conventional wisdom says that if you are going to go planted it's best to start with adult Discus.  To get the best from juvies you need to feed a lot and often.  In a planted tank much of the food gets lost in the substrate and rots.  Plants in pots work because you can move the pots and vaccum around them.  You can make a very attractive tank with a couple of pieces of driftwood and some plants in pretty containers.

I may have gone a little overboard when I said 30% daily.  Not everyone does that.  I think that Barb changes 80% 2 or 3 times weekly on her adults.  The truth is, Discus love good clean water.  As long as the water going in matches the paramaters of the water going out there is no such thing as too much WC.

[Barb]

Yes, I do about 80% twice a week, works well for my fish.  But they are all adults.  When young I did daily wc's, very important.
Barb

[Mugwump]

I've heard that about Discus..for good health and growth, lots of good clean water. I do a minimum of 50% on my angels, pairs more, and the fry get daily changes. You can't beat fresh, clean water for healthy fish.

[BallAquatics]

You can't beat fresh, clean water for healthy fish.

After reading that great water change article in TFH a couple years ago, I went from 50% to 70% minimum.  Daily for grow-out, 2 to 3 times weekly for breeders, and weekly for maintenance tanks.

Dennis

[PaulineMi]

Are you referring to the article by David Boruchowitz which broke down the amounts of "bad stuff" left behind when lesser percentages of water was changed in a tank?  That article was a real eye opener.

[BallAquatics]

Are you referring to the article by David Boruchowitz.....

That's the one!  I've seen people criticize it before saying it lacked the rigors of a true scientific study.  I think just the opposite.  It's in it's simplicity that it truly shines.

I looked it up...  "Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes"  in Part I (November  2009) and Part II (December 2009).

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

When I have fry I feed the shit out of them and do 80% twice daily.  I'm set up for massive WCs so it doesn't take long.  I know that non Discus people think that I'm over the top, but I get good steady growth and very few deformities.

[BallAquatics]

I know that non Discus people think that I'm over the top, but I get good steady growth and very few deformities.

Hey, I'm with ya Liz.  The same can be said for my Danios, "good steady growth and very few deformities".  The best food in the world won't get you anywhere if your water quality is poor.  If my water wasn't so hard here in Ohio, I'd set-up a flow-through system for growing out fry.

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

A flow through system...I made that once back when I had few tanks.  It was great.  I still needed to vacuum the bottom once daily and add good aged water.  I still gave them a big WC once weekly.  I made the out flow with a PVC thing that I can no longer find the design for.  It sent out water when the water reached a certain level.  I did the incoming with drippers used for drip irrigation.  It was an excellent method.

[BillT]

I made the out flow with a PVC thing that I can no longer find the design for.  It sent out water when the water reached a certain level.

Hey Liz,

Was it something like this?



This is a shot of a friend's fish room. His siphon drains required the part going over the top of the tank to be flooded so the siphon would work. The level in the tanks is controlled by the height of the overflow point (to the right). This one controls the whole row of tank levels since each tank is connected by siphon to the flooded pipe section, but he had also made them for only single tanks (one siphon, one overflow level control).