Edward Snowden: No Regrets Two Years After First NSA Leaks

[BallAquatics]

It should not be allowed.

The simple fact  that Congress and the Senate didn't renew the Patriot Act and shut down many of these other programs leads me to believe they were crooked as hell.  One has to wonder though, if Snowden hadn't exposed this, would they have carried on with business as usual???

Our government by the people still works very well when the people get motivated enough to do their part.....

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

I'm not saying that it's not done in Europe.  I said that the Europeans don't have the resources that the US has.  People here bitch about the economy but it way worse in Europe.  They think we have it made over here and wonder why we complain.  The dollar is very strong.  Imported goods are cheap. 

Did you see the size of that NSA building?  It's HUGE  Our taxes are paying them to keep an eye on us.  It ain't right.

[Mugwump]

I'm not saying that it's not done in Europe.  I said that the Europeans don't have the resources that the US has.  People here bitch about the economy but it way worse in Europe.  They think we have it made over here and wonder why we complain.  The dollar is very strong.  Imported goods are cheap. 

Did you see the size of that NSA building?  It's HUGE  Our taxes are paying them to keep an eye on us.  It ain't right.

Oh I agree, I don't like the public watchdogs either...but just to be clear, the Europeans do spy on the public...and they have enough budget to do so....those countries, individually, don't require as many $$$'s as we do....also, the NSA's budget is way more about other things than just the data collection.....airport security, harbor/port security, etc...these are places that the big bucks get spent..

Dennis is right...Congress had a chance to step in and IMHO didn't go far enough....mainly tho it's because it's a lot more about other things, not just computer generated data collection...

[BillT]

They have a lot more video cameras watching the streets in the UK than in the US. These are are probably watched all the time with face recognition software to track the locations of individuals visually. Some people think this is even more intrusive (yet also more public).

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In the US, it is difficult for a politician to be successful (meaning to get elected) and anti-war or anti-defense (since WW2). Many presidents have been generals in wars. This is pretty clear historically and is reflected in the actions politicians (are elected and will have to be re-elected) take. Among the reasons for this are:

1) Fear factor: referring to a danger out there is a strong motivator. Besides politics, its used in sales (financial proof of effectiveness).

2) Keeping local employment high by locating military bases in many congressional districts (thus affecting many votes in congress). More people are happy (as measured by the re-election of incumbent) when employment is high. This is why congress won't let the pentagon close bases it thinks it doesn't need anymore. NASA was set up in a similar way but on a way smaller scale. Nasa has a big base at the closest US point to the equator (making it energetically cheaper to launch in to space), but it also has a big base (Houston) in Texas (a large and politically powerful state), as well as suppliers of large expensive parts, in many other areas of the country.

There are different drivers and filters affecting the behavior of other groups, like bureaucrats or the military, who don't have to get elected.

[Mugwump]

UK intelligence agents have been moved because Russia and China have access to classified information which reveals how they operate, a senior government source has told the BBC.

According to the Sunday Times, Moscow and Beijing have deciphered documents stolen by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The government source told the BBC the countries "have information" that led to agents being moved but added there was "no evidence" any had been harmed.

Mr Snowden leaked data two years ago.

The former CIA contractor, now living in Russia, left the US in 2013 after leaking details of extensive internet and phone surveillance by American intelligence to the media.

His information made international headlines in June 2013 when the Guardian newspaper reported that the US National Security Agency was collecting the telephone records of tens of millions of Americans.

Mr Snowden is believed to have downloaded 1.7 million secret documents before he left the US.
'Hostile countries'

The government source said the information obtained by Russia and China meant that "knowledge of how we operate" had stopped the UK getting "vital information".

BBC political correspondent Chris Mason said the problem for UK authorities was not only the direct consequence that agents had been moved, but also the opportunity cost of those agents no longer being in locations where they were doing useful work.

Intelligence officials have long warned of what they see as the dangers of the information leaked by Mr Snowden and its potential impact on keeping people in the UK safe - a concern Prime Minister David Cameron has said he shares.

According to the Sunday Times, Western intelligence agencies have been forced to pull agents out of "hostile countries" after "Moscow gained access to more than one million classified files" held by Mr Snowden.

"Senior government sources confirmed that China had also cracked the encrypted documents, which contain details of secret intelligence techniques and information that could allow British and American spies to be identified," the newspaper added.

--the rest of the story---

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33125068

[BillT]

My problem with this kind of information is that it is being selectively leaked from a single anonymous source with no possibility of independent confirmation. Its a credibility issue.

The source was a "government source", probably an intelligence guy of some kind, else they wouldn't know anything.
Intelligence agency employees are the WORST source of info about intelligence agencies.
James Clapper (Director of National Intelligence) testified, a few months before Snowden released his stuff, under oath, before congress (the constitutional oversight group for intelligence among other things) that the US was not gathering info on phone calls by normal Americans.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/mar/11/james-clappers-testimony-one-year-later/
This guy should be out of a job (and maybe prosecuted) for perjuring himself before Congress.
If they perceive a reason to not tell the truth (such as disparaging someone they don't like), they have no reason not to do it.
No one can present a second opinion on the evidence that they won't let anyone see (except for their oversight committees (which they lie to)).

[Mugwump]

My problem with this kind of information is that it is being selectively leaked from a single anonymous source with no possibility of independent confirmation. Its a credibility issue.

The source was a "government source", probably an intelligence guy of some kind, else they wouldn't know anything.
Intelligence agency employees are the WORST source of info about intelligence agencies.
James Clapper (Director of National Intelligence) testified, a few months before Snowden released his stuff, under oath, before congress (the constitutional oversight group for intelligence among other things) that the US was not gathering info on phone calls by normal Americans.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/mar/11/james-clappers-testimony-one-year-later/
This guy should be out of a job (and maybe prosecuted) for perjuring himself before Congress.
If they perceive a reason to not tell the truth (such as disparaging someone they don't like), they have no reason not to do it.
No one can present a second opinion on the evidence that they won't let anyone see (except for their oversight committees (which they lie to)).

All well and good, Bill.....but this from the BBC, not a US source...""UK intelligence agents have been moved because Russia and China have access to classified information which reveals how they operate, a senior government source has told the BBC."".....and ""Mr Snowden is believed to have downloaded 1.7 million secret documents before he left the US.""

[BallAquatics]

But who is "a senior government source"?? 

It's probably James Clapper.  I'll bet they all got together and decided since he's already looking at jail time, what's he got to loose.....  LOL  Maybe Obama will pardon him on the way out like Clinton did with all his hoodlum friends.

Between this thread and the "Half Black Man" thread, I'm wondering who will show up at Jon's door first.....  the ACLU, or the NSA   

Dennis

[Mugwump]

But who is "a senior government source"?? 

It's probably James Clapper.  I'll bet they all got together and decided since he's already looking at jail time, what's he got to loose.....  LOL  Maybe Obama will pardon him on the way out like Clinton did with all his hoodlum friends.

Between this thread and the "Half Black Man" thread, I'm wondering who will show up at Jon's door first.....  the ACLU, or the NSA   

Dennis

LOL.....it was a British official, not American.....they're quoting the "Times" in London.....

now Liz started the "Half Black Man" thread... ....as far as this one...you started it Dennis....he he....

[BillT]

US and British spy agencies are very tight with each other.

[Mugwump]

US and British spy agencies are very tight with each other.

Okay.........it never happened...

[BallAquatics]

Speaking of Clinton & Obama, Monica says.....

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

But who is "a senior government source"?? 

Between this thread and the "Half Black Man" thread, I'm wondering who will show up at Jon's door first.....  the ACLU, or the NSA   

Dennis

You're very funny, Dennis.

[Mugwump]

Speaking of Clinton & Obama, Monica says.....

Dennis

LOL......yep, she's little Miss innocent now....LOL.....hope she's finding better friends than her last girl friend Linda...

[LizStreithorst]

I loved Clinton.  He was so cool but he would lie. He didn't inhale   He never had sexual relations with that woman   Nixon did wonderful things by thawing our relations with China but he was  paranoid.  "I am not a crook"

The upcoming election is very interesting.  Once upon a time a long time ago I liked Hillary a lot.  Now I'm not so sure about her.  I wish the guy who calls himself a socialist and is running as a Democrat would get more press.