http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/ (http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/)
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 02:58:55 PM
http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/ (http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/)
They talk about salt water tho....??
Quote from: Mugwump on July 10, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 02:58:55 PM
http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/ (http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/)
They talk about salt water tho....??
That's why I put a ? I don't know how it applies to FW fish.
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 03:15:43 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 10, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 02:58:55 PM
http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/ (http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/09/chemical-in-plastic-bags-threatens-marine-conservation-and-human-health/)
They talk about salt water tho....??
That's why I put a ? I don't know how it applies to FW fish.
I figured that....but was puzzled too..... ???
Some one sent me that link yesterday, but I haven't got around to reading the article.....
Bill has been telling us about all the plastics he found to be toxic.
Dennis
It's a wonder all our fish aren't dead then, huh?.......... ???
Fish are super tough critters.....
Dennis
I'm guessing they got some really bad bags to test. The article did not say where or how they got their bags.
Among plastic experts I have talked with, it seems that there is a lot of lot to lot variability in plastics from some sources. This can involve left over chemicals from the original reactions there were made to generate the plastic material. Other chemicals are added to increase flexibility (like plasticizers) or provide UV protection. Non-virgin plastics (made from recycled plastics) can have bad chemicals from some uncontrolled source. I have heard a lot of concern about plastics coming from China.
I was involved with a lot of testing of shipping fish in bags (as well as a lot of plastic and rubber materials). We got fish bags from normal fish bag suppliers and have done extensive testing of fish held in bags for up to a week. If they have enough oxygen the fish in these tests did fine.
I don't think we ever had an indications of a fish bag having any adverse effects on fish adults or babies.
Generally we found about 1/3 of plastic and rubber compounds to have toxic effects on zebrafish larvae. A toxic effect in this case would be dead, developmentally delayed, or deformed in baby fish (larvae). This is a good test (if you have lots of baby fish) because it is sensitive, easy, and quick.
Testing adults is more involved but has been done when testing the shipping conditions, with no apparent effects. Toxic effects would include dead fish, deformed fish, changes in fish behavior.
Some fish species may be tougher than others. This may be a difference between fresh and salt water fish.
On the other hand, I would be surprised if a 2 day loss of 60% of the fish in a shipment could be attributed to the bags in normal ongoing fish shipments. If the losses in fish shipments were due simply to the bags, someone would have probably figured it out before this. If not they would be losing a lot of money.
I just received a newsletter from Amazonas with this same article in my email inbox.
did Kervokian know about these bags...??.......
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 07:08:37 PM
I just received a newsletter from Amazonas with this same article in my email inbox.
Same here.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 10, 2015, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 10, 2015, 07:08:37 PM
I just received a newsletter from Amazonas with this same article in my email inbox.
Same here.
Dennis
Yep, seems I did too....
I also received that. I recall that awhile back I read something about vinyl airline tubing being toxic. I just now tried to find it but was unsuccessful. I did however find this:
We also have become aware recently of a new kid?s swimming pool vinyl liner on the market that is algae-resistant. Yes, they have treated the vinyl with some kind of toxic chemical that kills any algae that tries to grow on it; just the thing to have your kids swimming in, or your fish: a built-in toxic environment! But at least you won?t get any of that annoying algae around the edges of your tank!
Quote from: PaulineMi on July 11, 2015, 08:41:35 AM
I also received that. I recall that awhile back I read something about vinyl airline tubing being toxic. I just now tried to find it but was unsuccessful. I did however find this:
We also have become aware recently of a new kid?s swimming pool vinyl liner on the market that is algae-resistant. Yes, they have treated the vinyl with some kind of toxic chemical that kills any algae that tries to grow on it; just the thing to have your kids swimming in, or your fish: a built-in toxic environment! But at least you won?t get any of that annoying algae around the edges of your tank!
Saw another article on nuking food in plastic containers too....it's wonder that we're all alive, huh?.... ???
QuoteI also received that. I recall that awhile back I read something about vinyl airline tubing being toxic.
Vinyl airline tubing has quite a reaction in our toxicity test (which is to put some of the material to test in with fish eggs in a small container, and have an identical set-up without the material to be tested container).
When old tubing gets hard, presumably the plasticizers have leached out into the water.
Carbon, water exchanges, and possibly biological processes (like bacterial breakdown) are ways toxins like this could be removed.
Latest info.....
http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/17/delving-into-fish-shipping-bag-toxic-plastic-concerns/ (http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/07/17/delving-into-fish-shipping-bag-toxic-plastic-concerns/)
Dennis
Nice find Dennis! Interesting in many ways.
In my testing PVC pipe did not affect either zebrafish embryos, larvae, or adults.
We did not test flexible pipe, but it makes sense that it would be nasty.
PVC pipe glue solvents however are known to cause kidney damage.
Too bad they didn't say who made the bad bags.
When I worked for a company making things out of plastic (plastic molding company) I often heard the same cautions about plastics: watch out for stuff from China, watch out for non-virgin plastics (meaning recycled), lot to lot variation is possible especially from not top notch plastic producers (chemical companies).
In addition, I was told it probably a good idea to avoid plastics with UV inhibitors.
I'm waiting for them to start testing all the bags used for bread products and other items consumed by humans. If there was one thing learned from Rachel Carson's 'Silent Spring', the chemical companies learned to keep a much lower profile.....
Dennis
I now have a pdf of the original paper. Send me a message if you are interested in a copy.
However, the link Dennis posted is probably more easily understood.