It is time

[JR]

Now that I have time on my hands I need to start getting back into my fish. I am going with the Angels first. The last time I was into them I just bought what I liked. I had good luck with them. This time I would like to learn and understand them.  If you good folks could help me out it would be great, Next week I will be srtting up a 125 gal tank for them. I would like to know.

1. were on line can In find about the Genetic's on them. You all talk about There Genetic lines and I have no Idea what you are talking about.

2. What is the best size of angels to buy.I would like to get into the blacks. What is a good price for them.

3. What are good tank mates

4. What is the best type of food

I am sure there will be a lot more I will be asking

[Mugwump]

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/forum/content.php/30-Angelfish-Genetics-Index

you might copy the below, to notebook/desktop as reference..
...................
Ten active loci at this time..

1) Dark, Marble, gold Marble, gold
2) Zebra, Stripless
3) Smokey
4) Half Black
5) Albino
6) Blue
7) Veil
Pearlscale
9) Streaked
10) Philippine Blue

Dark (D) incomplete dominant, Gold (g) recessive and Marble (M)

incomplete dominant

Dominate genes are indicated with a capitol letter and the first in the

bracket. ex: Stripless - Ghost: S/+ Generally dominate genes express with

heterozygous traits.

Recessive genes are indicated with a lower case letter and are second in

the bracket. ex: Albino (het) +/a Generally recessive genes do not

express in heterozygous form, only in homozygous form.

Heterozygous: One gene (het)

Homozygous: two genes

Some genes do not show unless the fish is homozygous for the gene

Geneotype: What genes the fish carries

Phenotype: What you see as expression as far as color, pattern, and/or

finnage.

To this day, there are not any gender specific traits that have been

found.

Veiltail
Standard (short fin): +/+
Veil: V/+
Superveil: V/V

Pearlscale:
Flat scales: +/p
..............................
Genetic script..
Angelfish Genetic Notations


A. Notation to be used for accepted genes:

1. The letter designation of a gene name shall be its first letter unless

that letter is already taken in which case the first two letters of the

gene name shall be used.

2. The first letter will be uppercase if the gene is dominant to

wild-type. The first letter will be lowercase if the gene is recessive to

wild-type.

3. The second letter will always be lowercase.

4. If the first two letters are already used for an existing gene

notation, then the next available consonant in the gene name will be used

for the second letter.
5. The first letters of each word will be used for genes with more than

one word attached to them.
6. Wild-type will be designated by (+).
7. The preferred written format will be to separate alleles with a (/).

ex. for Hybrid Black D/g; for Smokey Sm/+. Fish that are dual-hybrids,

tri-hybrids, etc. will have loci separated with a (-). ex. for Zebra Lace

Z/+ - D/+ or Z/Z - D/+; for Half-black Zebra Lace h/h - Z/+ - D/+

B. Genes accepted as being proven through Dr. Norton's work and their

letter designations:

1. Dark 
D
partially dominant
Dark locus

2. Marble   
M
partially dominant
Dark locus

3. Zebra   
Z
partially dominant
Stripeless locus

4. Gold   
g
recessive characteristic
Dark locus

5. Stripeless
S
partially dominant
Stripeless locus

6. Smokey
Sm
partially dominant
Smokey locus

7. Half-black 
h
recessive characteristic
Halfblack locus

8. Gold marble
Gm 
partially dominant
Dark locus

9. Pearl 
p
recessive characteristic
Pearl locus

10. Streaked
St
partially dominant
Streaked locus

11. Veil   
V
partially dominant
Veil locus

12. Albino
a
recessive characteristic
Albino locus

13. Philippine Blue
pb
recessive characteristic
............................................................

genetic calculator here...
http://www.superiorangels.com/superiorangels/Genetics.html

Angels IMHO are best bought at quarter size. You can raise them and let them pair off by themselves, or cross to other angels that you may have.
For blacks, to get the best.....obtain some blacks and some silvers, or wild type angels. Cross them to get a single dose black referred to as a 'black lace' ( D/+), then cross any siblings to get a healthier DD (double dark) angel. ( D/D ) .....we can walk you through it.....

[LizStreithorst]

Now that I have time on my hands I need to start getting back into my fish. I am going with the Angels first. The last time I was into them I just bought what I liked. I had good luck with them. This time I would like to learn and understand them.  If you good folks could help me out it would be great, Next week I will be srtting up a 125 gal tank for them. I would like to know.

1. were on line can In find about the Genetic's on them. You all talk about There Genetic lines and I have no Idea what you are talking about.

2. What is the best size of angels to buy.I would like to get into the blacks. What is a good price for them.

3. What are good tank mates

4. What is the best type of food

I am sure there will be a lot more I will be asking

Since you want to know about Angle genetics you must be wanting to breed. 

1.  This is the place:  http://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=genetics_calculator.  Don't worry too much if it's Greek to you.  You only need to know about the strain you are interested in.

2.  The larger the better. 

3.  I pay little attention to price when I buy.  I'm more interested in quality.

4.  Rams, Discus, Bristlenose Plecos, Sterbai Cat's. 

5.  Live is always best but you should feed a variety.  My Captain is my man for dried food.  Ken't fish had the best price on FBW's last time I checked.

My answers are my opinion only.  I'm curious to see what the Angelfish folks have to say.

[Mugwump]

Good tips, Liz.....

[LizStreithorst]

DD's are genetically weak unless I remember right.

[Mugwump]

DD's are genetically weak unless I remember right.

They can be, yes...that's why my suggestion was a silver/black cross, then a sibling cross...that strengthens them. Back when, folks used to cross a gold gene in to do this....better results with a wild type/silver crossing....

[JR]

Thanks for the info. I agree with you Liz Quality over price. My LFS has a pair of DD blacks superveil He wonts 200 for them.  They are some fine looking fish. I was going to ask him to hold them fo me but I thought I should ask youall first.

[LizStreithorst]

Mug says that DD to DD is not a good idea.  IMHO super veil to super veil isn't a great idea.  The offspring won't be able to hold their fins up.  dd/d+ super veil to dd/d+ standard fin would produce stronger offspring with stronger finnage.

[Mugwump]

Thanks for the info. I agree with you Liz Quality over price. My LFS has a pair of DD blacks superveil He wants 200 for them.  They are some fine looking fish. I was going to ask him to hold them for me but I thought I should ask you all first.

Are they a 'proven' pair.....viable??....DD's can be very deleterious, as Liz pointed out, they're prone to weak fry that are difficult to raise, if not impossible in some cases. If you want them for breeding, myself, I would pass..... a pair of Silver lace, one dark gene, would be ok most times tho...does he know the breeder?.....
lookee here...they are out there much cheaper too.....

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwangelfish&1400434355

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwangelfish&1399837802

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwangelfish&1399677425

[JR]

I did not know what to ask him they are a proven pair. Why do I always like the hard stuff. I will be breeding them in time. I won't the blacks for the 125 gal. They are just so awesome looking. 

[LizStreithorst]

If I were to choose from the group you posted from AquaBid, I would go with the third group.  They sound the most interesting to me.  I'd have to buy a whole shit load of them though.   As dimes, you are taking chances on quality. It's best to have many to choose your keepers from than few.