I know that I'm more trouble than I'm worth....This time it's the breaks on The Beast.
They have gone out on me 3 times now. It's scary because The Beast is huge and heavy and almost impossible to stop without the power brakes not working. The first time was over 2 years ago. It happened in a parking lot in Hattiesburg. Thank God I made him stop. The ABS light never came on. It happened again a year or so ago in my drive way. I was going slow again but I almost hit my horse in the butt. The ABS light did come on but by the time I got to Chip's place it had gone out. It happened 3 times just now as I was driving back from mailing letters at the PO around the corner here in Ellisville. The light never came on.
So far this has only happened when I'm going slow and I have managed to avoid disaster. Every time it has gone away on it's own. Today I have all this running around to do but I'm afraid to do go anywhere that straight home.
Chip says that there's no way he can diagnose it if the light is not on. After today, I'm afraid to drive The Beast. Please tell me what to do?
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 01:04:06 PM
I know that I'm more trouble than I'm worth....This time it's the breaks on The Beast.
They have gone out on me 3 times now. It's scary because The Beast is huge and heavy and almost impossible to stop without the power brakes working. The first time was over 2 years ago. It happened in a parking lot in Hattiesburg. Thank God I made him stop. The ABS light never came on. It happened again a year or so ago in my drive way. I was going slow again but I almost hit my horse in the butt. The ABS light did come on but by the time I got to Chip's place it had gone out. It happened 3 times just now as I was driving back from mailing letters at the PO around the corner here in Ellisville. The light never came on.
So far this has only happened when I'm going slow and I have managed to avoid disaster. Every time it has gone away on it's own. Today I have all this running around to do but I'm afraid to do go anywhere that straight home.
Chip says that there's no way he can diagnose it if the light is not on. After today, I'm afraid to drive The Beast. Please tell me what to do?
....intermittent debris clogging the lines??.... if somehow debris got in the fluid that might do it??...drain and replace??
....this may seem odd but do you hear any wheel bearing noises?....does it happen during turning most times?.....if so, wheel bearings are shot..
Than you once again, Mugs. No. No wheel bearing noise. I'll have Chip flush out and replace the break fluid and replace it with new stuff. I sure hope it does the trick. This is such scary shit.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 01:26:15 PM
Than you once again, Mugs. No. No wheel bearing noise. I'll have Chip flush out and replace the break fluid and replace it with new stuff. I sure hope it does the trick. This is such scary shit.
It may not be the problem....I've read where new fluid caused an issue too...go figure....seals on the break booster or something....where's JR ?...hopefully he'll know something....I'm an amateur wrench guy, he's a pro... |^|
I know...my heart yearns for JR. I'll drive Charlotte until I talk to Chip Tuesday. I'll tell him what you suggested and ask his opinion on what to do. I'll try anything. I don't want to be afraid to drive The Beast.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 01:36:12 PM
I know...my heart yearns for JR. I'll drive Charlotte until I talk to Chip Tuesday. I'll tell him what you suggested and ask his opinion on what to do. I'll try anything. I don't want to be afraid to drive The Beast.
I just read one site that said "if the brake levels are up, and no abs light"...it has to be the master cylinder....
Thanks again. I'll have everything replaced that I know might cause the problem. It happened twice on the way home. no ABS light either time. It only happens when I'm going very slowly. There's surely a clue in that... a break expert would know. Without a break expert or JR, I'll just have stuff replaced that might be the cause and hope for the best.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
Thanks again. I'll have everything replaced that I know might cause the problem. It happened twice on the way home. no ABS light either time. It only happens when I'm going very slowly. There's surely a clue in that... a break expert would know. Without a break expert or JR, I'll just have stuff replaced that might be the cause and hope for the best.
Yep, been looking and the most common similar problems have one common denominator...doing it intermittently at slow speeds....then they start throwing parts at it...break booster and booster lines, etc....only one that made any sense said the 'master' and why...
Quote from: Mugwump on December 12, 2015, 02:32:55 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
Thanks again. I'll have everything replaced that I know might cause the problem. It happened twice on the way home. no ABS light either time. It only happens when I'm going very slowly. There's surely a clue in that... a break expert would know. Without a break expert or JR, I'll just have stuff replaced that might be the cause and hope for the best.
Yep, been looking and the most common similar problems have one common denominator...doing it intermittently at slow speeds....then they start throwing parts at it...break booster and booster lines, etc....only one that made any sense said the 'master' and why...
Quote from: Mugwump on December 12, 2015, 02:32:55 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
Thanks again. I'll have everything replaced that I know might cause the problem. It happened twice on the way home. no ABS light either time. It only happens when I'm going very slowly. There's surely a clue in that... a break expert would know. Without a break expert or JR, I'll just have stuff replaced that might be the cause and hope for the best.
Yep, been looking and the most common similar problems have one common denominator...doing it intermittently at slow speeds....then they start throwing parts at it...break booster and booster lines, etc....only one that made any sense said the 'master' and why...
I wish I were a mechanic so I could give you some expert advice but I had something like that happen to me (I did not have abs) and my issue was the master cylinder. I agree with Jon about checking those lines for debris.
Thanks again. I'll have everything replaced that I know might cause the problem. It happened twice on the way home. no ABS light either time. It only happens when I'm going very slowly. There's surely a clue in that... a break expert would know. Without a break expert or JR, I'll just have stuff replaced that might be the cause and hope for the best.
[/quote]
Yep, been looking and the most common similar problems have one common denominator...doing it intermittently at slow speeds....then they start throwing parts at it...break booster and booster lines, etc....only one that made any sense said the 'master' and why...
[/quote]
Let me know if I understand correctly...I should have Chip replace the Master cylinder, booster, and booster lines? Anything else? Thank you so much for this help. If the things you suggest don't work I promise that I won't turn into David on you ;)
Are there any symptoms having to do with the break pedal?
Does the pedal go to the floor when things don't work?
Do you have to pump the brakes?
Unusual noises?
Hand break work?
I do not know what year, make or model your truck is Liz but it sounds like the brake booster is going out or there is not vacuum going to it.
This link will give you some idea how it works
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/power-brake1.htm
Quote from: BillT on December 12, 2015, 03:28:29 PM
Are there any symptoms having to do with the break pedal?
Does the pedal go to the floor when things don't work?
Do you have to pump the brakes?
Unusual noises?
Hand break work?
The break peddle is perfect.
No noise at all the first 2 times. Suddenly the breaks simply did not work! Today it made a noise and vibration in the pedal when it happened. At least that let me know that I needed to stomp all my weight on the pedal.
I have no idea about the hand break. I never use it. I just stick it in "park".
Quote from: GeorgeG on December 12, 2015, 03:32:55 PM
I do not know what year, make or model your truck is Liz but it sounds like the brake booster is going out or there is not vacuum going to it.
This link will give you some idea how it works
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/power-brake1.htm
He's a '99 Ford Diesel 350 Extra length Van. 193,000 mostly Hwy miles. I'll take a look at your link. Thank you.
Have your friend check the vacuum pump to be sure it's working
Will do.
Diesel engine do not create vacuum that is why they need a vacuum pump. A quick check I did not find any recalls on your brakes other than the parking brake. You can always ask a Ford dealer if that was taken care of. That should be free for them to check the records. They need the VIN number to do that. Your buddy Chip can write that down for you if you do not know where it is but it is on the right hand corner looking through the windshield. Might be on the drivers door also.
Here is how "Brakes" are spelled
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: BillT on December 12, 2015, 03:28:29 PM
Are there any symptoms having to do with the break pedal?
Does the pedal go to the floor when things don't work?
Do you have to pump the brakes?
Unusual noises?
Hand break work?
The break peddle is perfect.
No noise at all the first 2 times. Suddenly the breaks simply did not work! Today it made a noise and vibration in the pedal when it happened. At least that let me know that I needed to stomp all my weight on the pedal.
I have no idea about the hand break. I never use it. I just stick it in "park".
..that's how I knew my front bearings were going/gone.....stutter/noisy pedal....pump quick and they came back....then pump quick stopped working too....but by that time I had an appt with Steve, my mechanic, had the new wheel bearings ordered/received....I got the parts cheap from his source, then $75 per axle to replace....
Forgive me, George. I'm dyslexic. I never could spell and I will never be able to. Learning to read was dang hard enough! Despite my shortcomings I ended up being pretty dang literate, don't you think? It's because I found good books irresistible and made myself read because the effort I put in paled in comparison of what I got from it. I was thought of as not real bright for most of my life, but I am smart.
I can't spell. I have no sense of direction. I have a bit of a problem with face recognition but I do not appreciate being made to feel stupid
Quote from: Mugwump on December 12, 2015, 04:07:20 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: BillT on December 12, 2015, 03:28:29 PM
Are there any symptoms having to do with the break pedal?
Does the pedal go to the floor when things don't work?
Do you have to pump the brakes?
Unusual noises?
Hand break work?
The break peddle is perfect.
No noise at all the first 2 times. Suddenly the breaks simply did not work! Today it made a noise and vibration in the pedal when it happened. At least that let me know that I needed to stomp all my weight on the pedal.
I have no idea about the hand break. I never use it. I just stick it in "park".
..that's how I knew my front bearings were going/gone.....stutter/noisy pedal....pump quick and they came back....then pump quick stopped working too....but by that time I had an appt with Steve, my mechanic, had the new wheel bearings ordered/received....I got the parts cheap from his source, then $75 per axle to replace....
So many possible causes...Poor Chip will have a job on his hands diagnosing and fixing. I'm going to have to get his email address and send a link to this thread to him. Poor guy. He hates break stuff because breaks get him dirty and he hates getting dirty ::) He is the cleanest mechanic I have ever seen! Too bad for him. He will have brakes to suffer though. He will do it for me. He's kind of a buddy.
You should familarize yourself with your hand brake.
It is a back-up to the normal brakes and would allow you to stop your truck if the normal brakes fail.
I shall, Bill. Mine's a foot pedal break but it does the same thing either way. I'll ll try it out when I need to slow down next time I drive the Beast. When my brakes fail I never think of using it because I never use it :-[
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 12, 2015, 05:59:01 PM
I shall, Bill. Mine's a foot pedal break but it does the same thing either way. I'll ll try it out when I need to slow down next time I drive the Beast. When my brakes fail I never think of using it because I never use it :-[
If you try it out...hold on tight...it can bite quick and send ya forward against the wheel....
If I remember correctly, to check the vacuum booster you put your foot on the brake and then start the engine. The pedal will not change if you're not getting vacuum to the brakes. If the pedal pushes your foot up, you've got vacuum. Another possibility is the vacuum is between my ears and I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'll bet Chip will know.
Quote from: Rjb3 on December 12, 2015, 06:57:00 PM
If I remember correctly, to check the vacuum booster you put your foot on the brake and then start the engine. The pedal will not change if you're not getting vacuum to the brakes. If the pedal pushes your foot up, you've got vacuum. Another possibility is the vacuum is between my ears and I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'll bet Chip will know.
I think you're right, Bob....I remember something like that too....
Or does the pedal go down when you start the engine? LOL
Chip will know.
Quote from: Rjb3 on December 12, 2015, 07:06:07 PM
Or does the pedal go down when you start the engine? LOL
Chip will know.
LOL....
note: "System Operation Test"
With the engine OFF , pump the brake pedal until the supply vacuum is entirely gone.
Put light, steady pressure on the brake pedal.
Start the engine and let it idle. If the system is operating correctly, the brake pedal should fall toward the floor if the constant pressure is maintained.
I just re read this thread. The consensus is is that it is most likely the master cylinder and the second most likely thing is the booster pump. I'll talk to Chip tomorrow. He won't like this job that doesn't have a for sure solution and involves brakes. (he hates brakes). If Shiny man is still with him I'll have him make The Beast Shiny while Chip takes care of the working parts.
If its the ABS Chip can pull up history codes. But if the ABS fails it will go back to standard brakes. In less there is a leak in the ABS unit. Is this a Hydro boost system or a vacuum boost system. If the power booster goes out the pedal should get real hard to push. Most Fords Have a one way Valve in the vacuum line to the booster that can cause a problem. Most master cylinders go to the floor when they are bad the fluid bleeds past the seals in the master. The one way valve will restrict the flow of vacuum to the booster if its bad. If it is hydro boost I would check out the hydro boost unit ford had a lot of problems with them. The first thing I would do is check my pressure at the calipers and go from there. You should not have to throw parts at this truck. We know it is not the calipers or the wheel cylinders they all dont stop working at the same time. If the pedal wants to kick back at you its in the hydro boost.If the pedal is hard I would change the power booster if it has vacuum. Don't know what system you have that van could have either one. If they both check out change the master. It is a pressure problem. That is the best I can do without driving the van. If chip is as good as you say Liz he can fix this without throwing parts at it.
I should have said if if its hydro boost make sure the power steering pump is sending enough pressure to the hydro boost unit if it is change the hydro boost unit
Thanks so much, JR. I will write down everything you said and take it to Chip when I take The Beast. The first two times it happened I felt like I couldn't push the pedal but since I was just crawling along I was able to make him stop. When it happened 3 times the same day, the pedal kicked back each time. Chip said that he will drive it and that will help him figure it out. I have faith in him. He's a 3rd generation mechanic and cut his teeth on automible parts. Still, he doesn't have the experience that you have.
Thank you much :-*