Dantum Albino Gene Location

[ghonk]

Someone at TAF posted that they did an albino dantum X non dantum albino cross.
And got non albino fry,they only have one fry that survived from that spawn.
They posted a pic,but you really couldn't tell if it was a non albino or not.
Assuming they are correct would probably  mean the albino dantum gene is in a different location.


 

[Mugwump]

Someone at TAF posted that they did an albino dantum X non dantum albino cross.
And got non albino fry,they only have one fry that survived from that spawn.
They posted a pic,but you really couldn't tell if it was a non albino or not.
Assuming they are correct would probably  mean the albino dantum gene is in a different location.

Albino Dantum gene???....Albino is a gene....Dantum is the phenotype name given by Danzinger in Israel, and David.....the Dantum was crossed from who knows what.....Danzinger bought his original pairings from some guy in Europe....who knows what's in them....but imho...probably nothing special...

[ghonk]

Well if he got non albino fry from a cross of 2 albinos that WOULD be special.
Have you heard of  such a cross  like that in angels before?

[Mugwump]

Well if he got non albino fry from a cross of 2 albinos that WOULD be special.
Have you heard of  such a cross  like that in angels before?

Why is it then that Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it?....All his shipments after the original have been just crosses. If it was indeed an Albino derived naturally, not from a cross, then it would still be possible to achieve them from the original pairings....and it doesn't seem to be the case...

Why are there no Albinos from a supposed a/a X a/a ?.....first off....he only had one survivor....and couldn't tell from that....

If the Dantum were a workable viable new work.....the world market would be flooded with them by now....I'm betting even the Asians have experimented with them..?....

Could my opinion be swayed, of course...I've been wrong before....but current workings going on have proven nothing....

BG is another ? mark.....I guess we'll just have to see it play out...

ps....you've raised Albino Dantums......any silvers there?....just curious...

[ghonk]

Well if he got non albino fry from a cross of 2 albinos that WOULD be special.
Have you heard of  such a cross  like that in angels before?

Why is it then that Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it?....All his shipments after the original have been just crosses. If it was indeed an Albino derived naturally, not from a cross, then it would still be possible to achieve them from the original pairings....and it doesn't seem to be the case...

Why are there no Albinos from a supposed a/a X a/a ?.....first off....he only had one survivor....and couldn't tell from that....

If the Dantum were a workable viable new work.....the world market would be flooded with them by now....I'm betting even the Asians have experimented with them..?....

Could my opinion be swayed, of course...I've been wrong before....but current workings going on have proven nothing....

BG is another ? mark.....I guess we'll just have to see it play out...

ps....you've raised Albino Dantums......any silvers there?....just curious...

I don't know where you   are getting your info from,you say all of the shipments after the originals have been crosses.That's  the first i have heard about that,ALL of the fish sold by AUSA are listed as dantums.
Albinos and non albinos,with the non albinos being het albino.

You say Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it,i don't think that's true either.Why wouldn't he be able to if he still has the original stock.

It seems you are trying to  DISPROVE something that was NEVER claimed,(other) then them being said to be a scalare X altum cross.(which is a different story all together)

Do i think they are a scalare X ALTUM cross,NO.There is no proof of that and is unlikely.
I never said there is anything UNUSUAL about them GENETICALLY,UNTIL NOW.

You asked if i got silvers from my albino dantums,yes all silvers,albino silvers.
I only have the one pair,and haven't done any crosses,so i can't say if they have any hidden genes of not.

So you don't think it's odd that non albino fry were born from a albino X albino cross,if that's the case.
Which was the point of the thread. 


   

[Mugwump]

Well if he got non albino fry from a cross of 2 albinos that WOULD be special.
Have you heard of  such a cross  like that in angels before?

Why is it then that Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it?....All his shipments after the original have been just crosses. If it was indeed an Albino derived naturally, not from a cross, then it would still be possible to achieve them from the original pairings....and it doesn't seem to be the case...

Why are there no Albinos from a supposed a/a X a/a ?.....first off....he only had one survivor....and couldn't tell from that....

If the Dantum were a workable viable new work.....the world market would be flooded with them by now....I'm betting even the Asians have experimented with them..?....

Could my opinion be swayed, of course...I've been wrong before....but current workings going on have proven nothing....

BG is another ? mark.....I guess we'll just have to see it play out...

ps....you've raised Albino Dantums......any silvers there?....just curious...

I don't know where you   are getting your info from,you say all of the shipments after the originals have been crosses.That's  the first i have heard about that,ALL of the fish sold by AUSA are listed as dantums.
Albinos and non albinos,with the non albinos being het albino.

You say Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it,i don't think that's true either.Why wouldn't he be able to if he still has the original stock.

It seems you are trying to  DISPROVE something that was NEVER claimed,(other) then them being said to be a scalare X altum cross.(which is a different story all together)

Do i think they are a scalare X ALTUM cross,NO.There is no proof of that and is unlikely.
I never said there is anything UNUSUAL about them GENETICALLY,UNTIL NOW.

You asked if i got silvers from my albino dantums,yes all silvers,albino silvers.
I only have the one pair,and haven't done any crosses,so i can't say if they have any hidden genes of not.

So you don't think it's odd that non albino fry were born from a albino X albino cross,if that's the case.
Which was the point of the thread. 

Dantums and albino Dantums are not the same thing....'het' albino....never saw that...but could be....how do you know?

Danzinger pairing the originals is not the same as breeding true....yours don't...you got silvers/albino silvers...

I'm not trying to disprove anything...the scalare vs altum thing does matter....I don't recall ever seeing an Albino Altum....could that be the mystery source of the albino gene being located elsewhere...??...and disappearing when crossed...getting silvers says not so....

Is it really an Albino, or Leucism  ??

I'm not being adversarial...I'm skeptical because, like BG, the breeders haven't been up front about any of their breeding from the get go......and as I wrote earlier, the rest of the world hasn't jumped on the bandwagon....

Back crossing in search of any new genes is almost impossible....there have been multi crosses already by the breeders and that alone has already influenced the makeup....    think breeding backwards from your dog to get a wolf....

[ghonk]

Well if he got non albino fry from a cross of 2 albinos that WOULD be special.
Have you heard of  such a cross  like that in angels before?

Why is it then that Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it?....All his shipments after the original have been just crosses. If it was indeed an Albino derived naturally, not from a cross, then it would still be possible to achieve them from the original pairings....and it doesn't seem to be the case...

Why are there no Albinos from a supposed a/a X a/a ?.....first off....he only had one survivor....and couldn't tell from that....

If the Dantum were a workable viable new work.....the world market would be flooded with them by now....I'm betting even the Asians have experimented with them..?....

Could my opinion be swayed, of course...I've been wrong before....but current workings going on have proven nothing....

BG is another ? mark.....I guess we'll just have to see it play out...

ps....you've raised Albino Dantums......any silvers there?....just curious...

I don't know where you   are getting your info from,you say all of the shipments after the originals have been crosses.That's  the first i have heard about that,ALL of the fish sold by AUSA are listed as dantums.
Albinos and non albinos,with the non albinos being het albino.

You say Danzinger hasn't been able to duplicate it,i don't think that's true either.Why wouldn't he be able to if he still has the original stock.

It seems you are trying to  DISPROVE something that was NEVER claimed,(other) then them being said to be a scalare X altum cross.(which is a different story all together)

Do i think they are a scalare X ALTUM cross,NO.There is no proof of that and is unlikely.
I never said there is anything UNUSUAL about them GENETICALLY,UNTIL NOW.

You asked if i got silvers from my albino dantums,yes all silvers,albino silvers.
I only have the one pair,and haven't done any crosses,so i can't say if they have any hidden genes of not.

So you don't think it's odd that non albino fry were born from a albino X albino cross,if that's the case.
Which was the point of the thread. 

Dantums and albino Dantums are not the same thing....'het' albino....never saw that...but could be....how do you know?

Danzinger pairing the originals is not the same as breeding true....yours don't...you got silvers/albino silvers...

I'm not trying to disprove anything...the scalare vs altum thing does matter....I don't recall ever seeing an Albino Altum....could that be the mystery source of the albino gene being located elsewhere...??...and disappearing when crossed...getting silvers says not so....

Is it really an Albino, or Leucism  ??

I'm not being adversarial...I'm skeptical because, like BG, the breeders haven't been up front about any of their breeding from the get go......and as I wrote earlier, the rest of the world hasn't jumped on the bandwagon....

Back crossing in search of any new genes is almost impossible....there have been multi crosses already by the breeders and that alone has already influenced the makeup....    think breeding backwards from your dog to get a wolf....

Dantums and albino dantums ARE the same fish,the original fish that Danzinger got at a discus show in germany were NON ALBINOS.

Can't  remember if it was a group or a pair,Danzinger got albino fry from a spawn.
As far as i know that's how he developed the line,which would explain the non albinos being het albino.Which is whats stated for the non albinos listed at AUSA,listed as het albino.

Throw away the scalare X altum cross.
I don't recall ANYONE ever claiming they were any different then any other scalare genetically,it's not like a dantum GENE has been claimed/discussed or even hinted at to my knowledge.
So until now,there was nothing to prove.




   

[Mugwump]

""Dantums and albino dantums ARE the same fish,the original fish that Danzinger got at a discus show in germany were NON ALBINOS.

Can't  remember if it was a group or a pair,Danzinger got albino fry from a spawn.
As far as i know that's how he developed the line,which would explain the non albinos being het albino.Which is whats stated for the non albinos listed at AUSA,listed as het albino.

Throw away the scalare X altum cross.
I don't recall ANYONE ever claiming they were any different then any other scalare genetically,it's not like a dantum GENE has been claimed/discussed or even hinted at to my knowledge.
So until now,there was nothing to prove""

.......
So all the Dantums out there..Albino, Dantum, and 'hets' are the same fish....interesting.....no confusion there, ?...

I know the story, so he buys some fish that he might not know the back ground of, except they're Peruvian crosses, and crosses them and gets albinos.....but they turn out to be special??...ok....

nope nothing to prove....

I can see what you're saying, but lack your enthusiasm for it might being special. that's all....

[ghonk]

I never said they were special,not GENETICALLY .No different then any other scalare as far as that goes,and i don't think others were thinking that either.

Until now,IF  non albino fry were hatched from a albino X albino spawn that wouldn't be the norm,call it what you like,i like SPECIAL.
As far as i know this hasn't been seen before,not in angels.

It's even possible that it was due to the non dantum fish,unless the breeder got albinos from that one before.

   

[Mugwump]

I never said they were special,not GENETICALLY .No different then any other scalare as far as that goes,and i don't think others were thinking that either.

Until now,IF  non albino fry were hatched from a albino X albino spawn that wouldn't be the norm,call it what you like,i like SPECIAL.
As far as i know this hasn't been seen before,not in angels.

It's even possible that it was due to the non dantum fish,unless the breeder got albinos from that one before.

   

Here's a guy who just got his in Taiwan...David says here that they get large 9cm.....but that's only about 3 1/2"....mine/yours were close to that I believe??.....are yours getting any bigger now..?

https://www.facebook.com/tom.huang.16?fref=nf

[ghonk]

My pair is average size,nothing special.
The 5 offspring from them are undersized,i had them at my brother's house in a 29 for awhile,the plan was to move them to his 120 which never happened.
Since i got them back they have grown pretty fast in the 55 they are in now.
I'm debating splitting the pair,and see if the female will pair with one of the offspring that has great color,the fish in my avatar.
Hopefully passing it to the offspring.

[Mugwump]

My pair is average size,nothing special.
The 5 offspring from them are undersized,i had them at my brother house in a 29 for awhile,the plan was to move them to his 120 which never happened.
Since i got them back they have grown pretty fast in the 55 they are in now.
I'm debating splitting the pair,and see if the female will pair with one of the offspring that has great color,the fish in my avatar.
Hopefully passing it to the offspring.

...cross backs are good for setting desired traits.......good luck..

[Mugwump]

Just saw this.....

""OUR SHIPMENT FROM Shahar Danziger is on the way. 17 full boxes of Angelfish and Rams. Blue Night Rams, German Blues, German Golds, Electric Blues, Mixed Rams.. and of course Albino Dantums, Regular Dantums, Kois, Zebra Lace, Platinum, Black, Sunsets, PLUS SHAHAR WAS NICE ENOUGH TO GIVE US A "DEAL" ON ASSORTED ANGELFISH PRE-BREEDERS AND JUVIES. WILL HAVE MORE INFO ON THOSE SOON.
All of these are Born and Raised in ISRAEL.
this is our biggest shipment of Angelfish to date. 17 Full large boxes.""

Apparently David doesn't think that they're the same thing 

[ghonk]

I assume he's calling then regular since they are not albinos.

[Mugwump]

I assume he's calling then regular since they are not albinos.

of course....they are not the same thing...