About UV Sterilizers. I used them in my SW tanks they worked great. I am setting up a 75 gal tank next weekend. It will be planted may use Co2 not sure yet. I would like to keep the Algae down. I know a UV Sterilizer will zap the heck out of Algae. I have 2 24watt not doing anything so I thought I would give one try.
Not sure it would "hurt" anything to use one..........especially since you already have them.
One of those 24 watt should be more than enough to zap the algae down. It did the job on a 125 planted display tanks I've had in the past. As far as I'm concerned the only good use for UV except in a lab situation is to zap algae. I could be wrong but I believe that it's bad for the fish to make their environment such that no normal parasites and regular bacteria can survive.
Hi JR, the only good a UV filter will be with algae is if it is the free floating algae, like the pea soup algae the ponds get in summer. The algae must actually go through the unit to kill it off. But it won't do anything for any of the algae that grows on glass, rocks, wood, etc. I use one in my pond with great results for the pea soup! An 18 watt bulb took care of 2000 gal of pond water. Good luck with yours,
Barb
..about ready to chime in with the same response....it won't help much if it's on the glass, but I've found that once the glass is clean, it doesn't seem to build up as fast.....with CO2 and Hi-light, it's hard not to get algae until the tank/plants balance themselves out.....then the plants should use most of the nutrients that algae need to grow..
As other have said, UV's work well against floating algae. In theory, you should be able to control algae in a planted tank either by letting the rooted plants out compete the algae for nutrients, or you could reduce the amount of light (less watts or less time) and/or control the nutrients the algae is making use of: nitrates (from nitrification), phosphorous (in many prepared foods), and potassium.
Reduced feeding and water changes come to mind for the last one.
Vets don't think a lack of parasites are bad, however bacteria can be beneficial in many ways (except for the bad ones). On the other hand, it would be difficult to really reduce the bacterial levels so much the fish could not get the bacteria they need.
UV's are also used in the control of pathogens, but this usually requires much higher UV doses (50,000 to 250,000 mWs/cm2) and can vary a lot for different pathogens. "mW" is the power of the UV. "s" is the time the water is exposed to the UV, this depends upon flow rate and size of the UV housing which determines how long the water is getting exposed to the UV. cm2 is that area (usually in a cylinder around the UV bulb) through which the UV passes. This affects how concentrated the UV light is.
Professionally, UV's are mostly used to prevent disease from spreading from one tank to another in a multi-tank water system. I don't think anyone uses them to reduce the bacteria in a single tank. A quick way to do that would be a massive water change.
Finally for pathogen control, one should remember that this has a statistical killing effect. It may kill 99.999% of somethiing, but over longer time ranges there will always be some that get through.
And I'll bet you a nickle that the pathogens that survive the big UV are strong and hard to treat. I don't have any proof, but I feel that it is good for any animals to be exposed to the normal pathogens that exist in fish water. The fish has an immune system that has a job to do. Giving it nothing to work on can only do harm unless you're doing veterinary fish science and need fish that never seen pathogens in their lives..
Things that are big, like the Ick parasite tend to be more resistant to UV. Tiny spores also seem to be more UV resistant. There are tables you can look these things up in.
Things can also get through a UV if they are hiding from the UV light in a piece of dirt, which is why it is a good idea to have a particle filter up stream of the UV.
People have occasionally been given worms to give their immune system something to do instead of causing trouble for their own body. Can't remember exactly what for, but maybe irritable bowel syndrome.
Normally however, most people probably would not want infected fish, especially if they were housed with large numbers of other fish.
Quote from: BillT on October 19, 2014, 11:42:12 AMPeople have occasionally been given worms to give their immune system something to do instead of causing trouble for their own body. Can't remember exactly what for, but maybe irritable bowel syndrome.
Normally however, most people probably would not want infected fish, especially if they were housed with large numbers of other fish.
I read that somewhere several years back, or may be I heard it on NPR. If I remember right they used tape worms. I don't remember what condition they were treating. I think is was maybe some kind of auto-immune syndrom.
I know that these days they are introducing good gut bacteria into the systems of people who lack it by using poo from people with good gut bacteria. I heard about it twice on the radio but I tried not to pay attention because the thought of it kinda grossed me out.
Poor JR. He asked about using UV to zap algae and it has degenerated into talk of worms and excrement. Sorry, JR.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on October 19, 2014, 12:16:37 PM
Poor JR. He asked about using UV to zap algae and it has degenerated into talk of worms and excrement. Sorry, JR.
What????....algae poop????.... ;D
I think it was hookworms not tapeworms.
Fecal transplants are becoming more medically accepted for changing the group of bacteria in someone's the intestines as a disease treatment. Now I think that that is what is used for irritable bowel syndrome.
I googled-up hookworm treatment and found it used for autoimmune disease treatments, some in the intestines, some not.
I've heard the same thing that Liz was alluding to a few posts back. Fish raised in a sterile UV environment have troubles if moved to a regular tank environment.
I think the paper I was reading pertained to some Asian breeders using UV and all the problems buyers had with their fish. The problem was sourced down to a weakened immune system due to being raised in the UV environment.
It was an interesting read, but I didn't get too excited about it..... just another hi-tech gadget. How did we ever get along with out these??? ??? ??? :o :o :P :P
Dennis
It's so obvious. If the immune system has never before encountered a pathogen so every one it encounters will knock it for a loop. JR just wanted enough to zap algae. I've used it for that and it worked great
Well we all step into it some times. I think I will just leave my UV units in the basement
I know a guy who used to raise tropical fish in a very closed system (no new fish coming in) to sell to wholesalers.
His guppies were never exposed to the outside pathogens and were very susceptible to some nasty guppy virus from Asia and would often get sick when exposed to the outside world. He was pretty pissed off about poeple importing the virus from Asia (in guppies from Asia), since it got around everywhere. Other fish were exposed to it and developed immunity, but his did not.
This involved a specific immunity to a specific pathogen. An organism can't be immune to something it has not been exposed to. Presumably the rest of the immune system worked fine. This would be different from a general immune system malaise. If it immune system were just no working, any old opportunistic bacteria in a tank could invade a fish and eat it from the inside.
I ran a large system with a lot of UV and a pretty good turnover rate. We did bacterial counts in the water in the tanks and it was full of water. Someone there did a study of the bacteria on and in a zebrafish and count (using molecular techniques) something like 16,000 different species of bacteria. This is one of the main reasons i don't think UV alone can eliminate bacterial in tanks.
We also made a completely sterile room and raised sterile fish in there. These fish could survive until about 7 days after fertilization when their egg yolk food ran out. then they died. Their problem was that the right kind of bacteria were required for the inside of the intestines to develop properly. The bacteria would also help digest food. Unfortunately, they died too young to tell anything about the immune system.
Quote from: BillT on October 20, 2014, 12:13:04 AM
I know a guy who used to raise tropical fish in a very closed system (no new fish coming in) to sell to wholesalers.
His guppies were never exposed to the outside pathogens and were very susceptible to some nasty guppy virus from Asia and would often get sick when exposed to the outside world. He was pretty pissed off about poeple importing the virus from Asia (in guppies from Asia), since it got around everywhere. Other fish were exposed to it and developed immunity, but his did not.
This involved a specific immunity to a specific pathogen. An organism can't be immune to something it has not been exposed to. Presumably the rest of the immune system worked fine. This would be different from a general immune system malaise. If it immune system were just no working, any old opportunistic bacteria in a tank could invade a fish and eat it from the inside.
I ran a large system with a lot of UV and a pretty good turnover rate. We did bacterial counts in the water in the tanks and it was full of water. Someone there did a study of the bacteria on and in a zebrafish and count (using molecular techniques) something like 16,000 different species of bacteria. This is one of the main reasons i don't think UV alone can eliminate bacterial in tanks.
We also made a completely sterile room and raised sterile fish in there. These fish could survive until about 7 days after fertilization when their egg yolk food ran out. then they died. Their problem was that the right kind of bacteria were required for the inside of the intestines to develop properly. The bacteria would also help digest food. Unfortunately, they died too young to tell anything about the immune system.
Excellent explanation, Bill!
agreed.
yup, seen a few breeders get anal over sterile tanks too....and they get a rep for weak fish because they have trouble surviving in other folks tanks......