I'll wait for Frank here....... ;D...myself, this is a crazy idea.....
Normal bioactive media, siphoning the substrate and water changes...why not? I agree the Rid-X in the aquarium is a good topic for Frank to address.
My feeling is that once you dose...you'll have to continue to dose it...plus, if you have a need to use it, you're doing something wrong, and have a bigger problem ..it's a band-aid, not a cure...
I wouldn't recommend it for it's intended purpose let along in your aquarium. LOL
Dennis
Found some ingredients lists:
Digestin (a digestive enzyme) http://www.progressivelabs.com/product.php?productid=181
Rid- X http://www.rid-x.com/faq.shtml
Here's part of the premise....Probiotic bacteria used as a preventative....remember Monsanto started something like this with GMO's, grain/seed additives.....now we have things that might start glowing in the dark....???..it's not always a good thing...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC99008/
I agree. :o
Edit:
I just read (and scanned parts of) your link. Ugh.....
I recently read about what wheat used to be like and what it is today now that it's been "improved" to produce high yields. It explained how totally different bread made from "old" type wheat is from today's bread.
Sure can't help but feel very sorry for the generations to come....human, plant and animal.
yep, hence my apprehension. Here's the 'Monster Fish Keepers' thread
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?536531-The-Use-of-Probiotics-in-Aquaculture&highlight=probiotic
It's a very interesting and intriguing thread ....a good read...
I told Dan that I'm not too old to learn, but old enough to be very careful....LOL....
That link just takes me to the index page..... no thread???
Dennis
LOL...try it now....it's a long thread but pretty decent to follow
Thanks Jon!
Dennis
I was crazy enough to use Miracle grow in my tanks and it worked, but i don't know if i'll go as far as trying rid-x. I do keep it on hand here and use it once a month in my septic tank
I use Poo Be Gone.
I spray in a bit in the morning and the turds twinkle a bit and poof...gone.
Seriously though. Why would a Plumber with 34 years of field experience in industrial turd smuggling technology be designing and constructing a $5 K plus central filtration system with 18 denitrification reactor towers if a sprinkle of fairly dust would work?
Never close your eyes when walking barefoot behind a horse drawn carriage with no dew bucket in place.
Call me old school, but nothing beats a good water change.No matter how old,fat and lazy i get
I'm still skeptical, but it's not presented as a cure all, but an aid in possibly controlling some harmful bacteria that can arise....in your case,(Frank) your system will handle it fine, with macho to spare....but, just but....what if it could help further being used in your sump??....what if made it even more vermin proof......then would you consider it?...how could you not.....
C9-11 Alcohols Ethoxylate is not good to ingest. In fact, it's toxic to aquatic life. Also, the main ingredient is wheat germ. That means it will cloud the water and kill the fish.
Proteins, enzymes and amino acids are necessary. That's the reason fish foods contain things like: Krill, Spirulina, (brown) micro algae, and Garlic. Example: Vitamin C is also necessary. However, too much vitamin C is not good. My vitamin C experiments were with micro worms. I wanted the worms to supply a high amount of the vitamin for the fry that would eat them. 500 mg per pound in the media was good. 500 mg per culture stopped them from reproducing. It all boils down to enough is good, more is not better.
They must not have enough of the additive in order for it to react badly with just fish poop, etc....in the MFK threads, folks are using it without problems. Could the Cp-11 be a sleeper reaction down the road??.....so far, their use has been free of problems......water changes,etc are continued and perhaps that nullifies any issues???....scan the thread to see if you pick up anything...thanks...that's the kind of thing that can pop up on trying new things.....odd, Seachem 'cycle' and 'start' are made with some of the same items......this is getting more interesting....hmmmmm
note, they even mention fish ingesting some of the product...others pre mix, or add to a replacement carbon filter sleeve, like a tea bag...and let it mix in that way......somethings not making it lethal to plants or fish...even BN's and cory's...
I just went by the MSDS info. The manufacturer of the product says it's made for sewer systems, but I see in the MSDS sheet not to dispose of alcohols ethoxylate into the sewer system. Carcinogen and reproductive hazards to humans. Wash your hands after handling. Don't get it in your eyes. The list goes on. I'm thinking I don't want that in my fish tank.
The folks feeding Trout Chow know how much waste is created in the tank by its use. I say there are foods that create less waste, let's feed those instead. I will not rant about how Trout Chow is not tropical fish food because Trout are fish. I'm just saying it's designed for something else, and so is Rid-X.
In the words of Bert Lance... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Dennis
Quote from: Frank The Plumber on July 14, 2013, 08:05:21 PM
I use Poo Be Gone.
I spray in a bit in the morning and the turds twinkle a bit and poof...gone.
Seriously though. Why would a Plumber with 34 years of field experience in industrial turd smuggling technology be designing and constructing a $5 K plus central filtration system with 18 denitrification reactor towers if a sprinkle of fairly dust would work?
Never close your eyes when walking barefoot behind a horse drawn carriage with no dew bucket in place.
Frank, do you sell the PooBeGon? I've been growing weary of WCs. PooBeGon would make fish keeping maintence free. All I'd have to do is top off the tanks with RO ;)
Thanks for chiming in folks. I'm a water change guy, and don't plan on trying it, but 'live and learn'...there must be something there...good or bad.....I'm watching and searching for more info to see where this all pans out.
There are similar products that are aquarium safe.
Quote from: Frank The Plumber on July 15, 2013, 07:02:32 AM
There are similar products that are aquarium safe.
Yea, Dr. Tim's got all kinds of bacteria.....
Dennis
Jon...... lol. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: PaulineMi on July 15, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
Jon...... lol. ;D ;D ;D
LOL..first thought that ran through my head...'Welcome back, my friends to the show that never ends....."
One of my favorite albums by ELP.....
The concept is not wrong it is that it should be naturally occurring. It all needs oxygen. Most situations are the result of poor gas exchange in the system.
Of course, it's all about the water,aeration/gases/etal....but if there's an edge to be had by using a proper minimal dose, then it could be a good thing for a knowledgeable keeper to consider. Think of it as a possible vaccination?
My fish have always done their best when I didn't try to play mad scientist and add stuff to the tank..... Besides that, if my fish did any better I simply wouldn't know what to do as I don't have enough tanks for all of them now. LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 15, 2013, 08:21:19 PM
My fish have always done their best when I didn't try to play mad scientist and add stuff to the tank..... Besides that, if my fish did any better I simply wouldn't know what to do as I don't have enough tanks for all of them now. LOL
Dennis
LOL..me neither.... ;D....Good food and timely water changes has worked well for me so far, why stop now?... 8)
Probiotics, just another tool to enhance a working system. If nothing other than competitive exclusion as a benefit, it seems worth it to me. Look at humans for instance, if we did nothing to improve the system in which we lived, we would all still be dieing of old age at 45. jmho. I want to keep an open mind which invites improvment and I feel that if I remain reluctant to change then my mind might become stagnant.