We don't have a sub forum for quack stuff so I'm posting this here.
I had a pair of Marbles that I wanted to take a break from spawning. I knew that if I stuck the pair in a 20 with aged tap their eggs would not be fertile. They were in there for a couple of months and they hadn't even spawned. I thought that maybe they didn't like that tank for some reason huh
Three days ago I decided to put the tea in their tank. I thought that nothing would happen, but they were guarding eggs this morning. Go figure...
Maybe, as a non-anglefish person, I am not following this:
You didn't want them to breed so you put them in non-soft water (tap water is hard where you are?), where they are known to not successfully breed.
Then you add tea extract and they bred.
The tea is normal (tap?) water with the tea leaf extract?
Perhaps a tea chemical bound up and removed the hardness chemicals out of the water resulting in softness.
Or perhaps they bred but the eggs are infertile but have not made that obvious yet.
I thought that was interesting too, Bill....
Quote from: BillT on January 08, 2017, 11:11:41 AM
Maybe, as a non-anglefish person, I am not following this:
You didn't want them to breed so you put them in non-soft water (tap water is hard where you are?), where they are known to not successfully breed.
Then you add tea extract and they bred.
The tea is normal (tap?) water with the tea leaf extract?
Perhaps a tea chemical bound up and removed the hardness chemicals out of the water resulting in softness.
Or perhaps they bred but the eggs are infertile but have not made that obvious yet.
My water is almost always just a tad too hard for eggs to hatch. Every once in a while I'll get a hatch in aged tap but it's quite rare. The pair I did with didn't even breed until I added the tea.
The tea is supposed to be very low in tannin's but something in it does the trick. Since I discovered this I have quit using RO. When I want a spawn I just add a stocking full of tea. Works every time with the Angels. I'm still having fertility issues with the Discus huh but it's better with the tea than with RO when I was getting nothing.
Interesting.
I'm assuming it is just plain old cheap tea then, not something tasty like Lapsang Souchong.
It's quite tasty to me.
Quote from: BillT on January 08, 2017, 02:47:55 PM
Interesting.
I'm assuming it is just plain old cheap tea then, not something tasty like Lapsang Souchong.
...nope....not cheap......and yes, pretty tasty... |^|
It's not too expensive if you buy it in bulk.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2017, 02:57:44 PM
It's not too expensive if you buy it in bulk.
....still not cheap tho.....how much are you buying at a time?
I'm doing some chemistry tests with Rooibos today, I can't help myself. The TDS goes up and the pH goes down quite a lot... whats interesting is that the pH is going down just as much in buffered water as unbuffered. huh
These tests were in a cup, so I need to play with it some more in a tank where it won't be so concentrated.
That's the same thing that happens when you add peat. I know because when I used peat years ago I had both meters. Not I just have the TDS meter.
The rooibos is said to have no tannin's. I wonder what's in it that lowers pH.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2017, 03:12:04 PM
That's the same thing that happens when you add peat. I know because when I used peat years ago I had both meters. Not I just have the TDS meter.
The rooibos is said to have no tannin's. I wonder what's in it that lowers pH.
Q: Is Rooibos Tea acidic or alkaline?
A: A properly brewed cup of Rooibos Tea will be
slightly acidic with a pH in the range of 5.0 to 6.0. A neutral pH is 7.0. The pH of each cup of Rooibos Tea will be affected by the quality and source of the water used to brew it.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 08, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2017, 02:57:44 PM
It's not too expensive if you buy it in bulk.
....still not cheap tho.....how much are you buying at a time?
I bought 7 lbs last time. It was enough to get me a discount. Right now I'm only using it an a 75 gallon and a 29 gallon so it's not costing me an arm and a leg. I switch to aged tap without the tea once I see wigglers. It took me a bit of time to figure out when I needed it and when I did not.
Rooibos seems to be doing the same thing with TDS and pH as peat, oak leaves, alder cones. It contains tannins, but they say much less than regular teas. Tannin and tannic acid are different terms for the same thing.
In a cup of aged water KH <1, with a tablespoon of rooibos soaking for a few minutes..
pH 6.25 --> 5.55
TDS 51 --> 107 ppm
In a cup of aged water KH 3, with a tablespoon of rooibos soaking for a few minutes..
pH 7.24 --> 6.52
TDS 102 --> 189 ppm
In a 29g tank with Rams, after 1 hour with 1 tablespoon rooibos the pH went from 6.29 to 6.23. The TDS didn't change, stayed at 51 ppm
According to this article, it is high in polyphenols, of which tannin is only one type. There are other polyphenolic acids besides tannin that could be dropping the pH.
http://cms.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/issue59/article2550.html?ts=1483912833&signature=2f5aba3880c918a50e108af83c04ef30
That was a good read, Dan.
Cool tests!
..nice work, Dan...
I see that the PH drops rapidly with just a tablespoon of the tea.....that could be a concern as far as Angel acclimation, if not done carefully....big quick swings in PH aren't a good thing for Angel fish.
Occasionally I'll put 1 to 1.5 cups of Rooibos tea in my 150 with the Altums. That's the dose I got from Mike Troxell. They are always quite happy after I do it.
I haven't been using it too much lately though. Next time I do I will check the PH before and after I put in.
Quote from: wsantia1 on January 09, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
Occasionally I'll put 1 to 1.5 cups of Rooibos tea in my 150 with the Altums. That's the dose I got from Mike Troxell. They are always quite happy after I do it.
I haven't been using it too much lately though. Next time I do I will check the PH before and after I put in.
..... |^|....it'd be a nice comparison test....
I dump fish from a tank with straight tap into a tank dark with tea all the time. It has never bothered the fish.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 09, 2017, 05:36:28 AM
..nice work, Dan...
I see that the PH drops rapidly with just a tablespoon of the tea.....that could be a concern as far as Angel acclimation, if not done carefully....big quick swings in PH aren't a good thing for Angel fish.
I doubt if the pH is anything to worry about. The big pH shift is in a cup where the tea is concentrated. Notice that in my tank it only went down by 0.06 and that was over an hour's time.
What was strange is that the water having dKH=3 still had the same alkalinity (dKH=3) after the pH went down. That shouldn't happen except with CO2... the acid should have titrated the alkalinity down quite a bit. Maybe its because these are organic acids. Not sure.