How long before it's us?

[BallAquatics]

I was listening to the talks about Greece and their "Failed State" and I was wondering how long before it will be us here in this country as well.  We are $18,3000,000,000.00 dollars past being broke.  If each tax payer in the US would come up with $154,375.00 dollars we would be out-of-debt as a nation.....

Dennis

[BallAquatics]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Dennis

[Mugwump]

I guess the difference is we always a have a very fluid economy. We make money, accrue debt, pay debt, repeat....not really perfect, eh?

[LizStreithorst]

We are still the favored place to put money for people whose countries are going through hard times.  Once that changes it will be all over.  Heck.  We don't even have the money to repair and upgrade our infrastructure.  Thing of all the jobs that  would be created if were to do that.

[BallAquatics]

Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html

Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817

Dennis

[Mugwump]

Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html

Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817

Dennis

....China?....nope....they have more financial issues than meets the eye....plus serious unrest in their labor market.....they are artificially propping up their currency now.....

[BallAquatics]

....China?....nope....

I'm not so sure.  I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now.  That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece.  Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.

In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country.  Part of the problem really.  Nope, can't happen here.....

Dennis

[Mugwump]

....China?....nope....

I'm not so sure.  I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now.  That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece.  Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.

In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country.  Part of the problem really.  Nope, can't happen here.....

Dennis

Maybe so...........but the 'doom sayers' really stretch reality in there discussions fortified by a lot of 'what ifs'...it's gotten more political, than rational...   

---Greece's issue is a way different, they were absorbed/admitted into the 'euro' community, which is now trying to caste unwanted control on Greece's financial future. I mean come on....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....both of them had those debts forgiven....handcuffing Greece with all the debt, and demanding it be paid, plus wanting to dictate the methodology of how it's done would just make Greece a slave country for many decades...and drag the 'euro' down with it........Greece was wise to reject the offer/plan.....but they still need to crack down internally and get their house in order.....

[Barb]

Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case.  I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life.  And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb

[BillT]

Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.

US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.

[GraphicGr8s]

Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.

US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.

Most people don't really understand how our currency works. Greece has to borrow from the EU. We with fiat currency actually don't have to borrow money. We can print money up to the value of our assets. Care to guess the value of American assets?

The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand. Most people don't understand debt and deficit. If you want to believe we had a surplus you can in reality thank N. Gingrich. And that's as far as I am willing to go political here.

[BallAquatics]

....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....

Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation.  It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile.  They love it when we do that in the UK too.  More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.

Dennis

[GraphicGr8s]

....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....

Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation.  It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile.  They love it when we do that in the UK too.  More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.

Dennis

Since we are not backed by precious metals the value of our money will fluctuate. But look at the price of gold and imagine what a loaf of bread would cost if we were still backed by gold. The value of the dollar has ebbed and flowed many times in the past and yet it is still what people want no matter where they are from. They realize that while we may be having a tough time right now in the end it will be a profitable venture.

Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.

[BallAquatics]

Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.

Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform.....  sound familiar?

Dennis

[GraphicGr8s]

Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.

Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform.....  sound familiar?

Dennis

The one difference however is our money.