Mugwump's Fish World

Other topics and Interests => THE LOUNGE => Topic started by: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:18:34 pm

Title: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:18:34 pm
I was listening to the talks about Greece and their "Failed State" and I was wondering how long before it will be us here in this country as well.  We are $18,3000,000,000.00 dollars past being broke.  If each tax payer in the US would come up with $154,375.00 dollars we would be out-of-debt as a nation.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:22:14 pm
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (http://www.usdebtclock.org/)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 02:32:35 pm
I guess the difference is we always a have a very fluid economy. We make money, accrue debt, pay debt, repeat....not really perfect, eh?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on July 07, 2015, 02:38:13 pm
We are still the favored place to put money for people whose countries are going through hard times.  Once that changes it will be all over.  Heck.  We don't even have the money to repair and upgrade our infrastructure.  Thing of all the jobs that  would be created if were to do that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:52:09 pm
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)

Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 03:56:09 pm
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)

Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)

Dennis


....China?....nope....they have more financial issues than meets the eye....plus serious unrest in their labor market.....they are artificially propping up their currency now.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 04:02:43 pm
....China?....nope....

I'm not so sure.  I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now.  That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece.  Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.

In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country.  Part of the problem really.  Nope, can't happen here.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 04:22:09 pm
....China?....nope....

I'm not so sure.  I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now.  That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece.  Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.

In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country.  Part of the problem really.  Nope, can't happen here.....

Dennis

Maybe so...........but the 'doom sayers' really stretch reality in there discussions fortified by a lot of 'what ifs'...it's gotten more political, than rational...   

---Greece's issue is a way different, they were absorbed/admitted into the 'euro' community, which is now trying to caste unwanted control on Greece's financial future. I mean come on....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....both of them had those debts forgiven....handcuffing Greece with all the debt, and demanding it be paid, plus wanting to dictate the methodology of how it's done would just make Greece a slave country for many decades...and drag the 'euro' down with it........Greece was wise to reject the offer/plan.....but they still need to crack down internally and get their house in order.....

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Barb on July 07, 2015, 06:24:44 pm
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case.  I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life.  And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 07, 2015, 07:23:14 pm
Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.

US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 07, 2015, 10:51:06 pm
Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.

US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.

Most people don't really understand how our currency works. Greece has to borrow from the EU. We with fiat currency actually don't have to borrow money. We can print money up to the value of our assets. Care to guess the value of American assets?

The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand. Most people don't understand debt and deficit. If you want to believe we had a surplus you can in reality thank N. Gingrich. And that's as far as I am willing to go political here.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 08, 2015, 07:35:52 am
....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....

Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation.  It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile.  They love it when we do that in the UK too.  More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 08, 2015, 07:59:57 am
....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....

Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation.  It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.

And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile.  They love it when we do that in the UK too.  More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.

Dennis
Since we are not backed by precious metals the value of our money will fluctuate. But look at the price of gold and imagine what a loaf of bread would cost if we were still backed by gold. The value of the dollar has ebbed and flowed many times in the past and yet it is still what people want no matter where they are from. They realize that while we may be having a tough time right now in the end it will be a profitable venture.

Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 08, 2015, 08:37:08 am
Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.

Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform.....  sound familiar?

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 08, 2015, 10:10:52 am
Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.

Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform.....  sound familiar?

Dennis

The one difference however is our money.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 08, 2015, 10:33:04 am
One of Greece's bigger problems is they don't collect taxes well.....and those taxes are way too low in many areas....with not much money coming in, and an ineffective tax structure, they couldn't even hope to become solvent...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on July 08, 2015, 12:54:51 pm
That's why no one should loan them any more money that they can't/WON'T pay back.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 08, 2015, 01:13:02 pm
That's why no one should loan them any more money that they can't/WON'T pay back.

Actually I think they voted 'NO',... because they don't want any more money/control from anyone.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on July 08, 2015, 04:23:19 pm
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case.  I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life.  And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
That's not a bad idea, Barb. I find it comforting. The question is, however, will that money be worth anything when the fall hits? I would love to hear thoughts on this...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 08, 2015, 04:25:57 pm
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case.  I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life.  And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
That's not a bad idea, Barb. I find it comforting. The question is, however, will that money be worth anything when the fall hits? I would love to hear thoughts on this...


..if it ever should hit....better have some survival skills.....or Ron, you got 'duckie'.... ;D....stock up..
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 05:38:39 am
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)

Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)

Dennis

The latest from China....

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/07/08/market-wrap-stocks-end-sharply-lower-china-fears-nyse-shutdown/ (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/07/08/market-wrap-stocks-end-sharply-lower-china-fears-nyse-shutdown/)

""Chinese shares have fallen more than 30 percent in the last three weeks, and some investors fear China's turmoil is now a bigger risk than the crisis in Greece.

"I don't think the Greece situation is a focus in the markets beyond the short term," said Tim Ghriskey, chief investment officer of Solaris Group in Bedford Hills, New York. "This is really about China where the sell-off continues unabated despite efforts by People's Bank of China to halt this."""

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 09, 2015, 09:41:45 am
Quote
The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.

This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 10:42:38 am
Quote
The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.

This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.

All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 11:11:57 am
Quote
The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.

This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.

All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.

Au Contraire..........Clinton did a fine job in office. It was Bush that gave it all back......and we're just starting to recover now....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 11:41:36 am
Quote
The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.

This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.

All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.

Au Contraire..........Clinton did a fine job in office. It was Bush that gave it all back......and we're just starting to recover now....

I thought you didn't get political Jon. You just opened up a can of worms. Would you like the rhetoric or just the facts? Or will this get closed?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 am
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 11:56:07 am
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

What is the "Great Salt Debate"?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 12:37:54 pm
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

What is the "Great Salt Debate"?


LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....

as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:10:42 pm
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

What is the "Great Salt Debate"?


LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....

as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....

Oh that salt debate. I wasn't sure if it was that or whether to soak your frozen bait in brine before putting it on the hook.


I have discussions with customers here at work on politics. Since it's in person I can usually tell if the other guy/gal will treat it just as a discussion albeit a heated one or not. All of the folks I discuss it with in person are pretty much my opposite politically. And after our "discussion" we shake hands or give each other a hug. 99% of them meet the unsweetened ice tea criteria.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on July 09, 2015, 02:16:34 pm
So it was a salt treaty.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:25:07 pm
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

What is the "Great Salt Debate"?


LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....

as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....

Oh that salt debate. I wasn't sure if it was that or whether to soak your frozen bait in brine before putting it on the hook.


I have discussions with customers here at work on politics. Since it's in person I can usually tell if the other guy/gal will treat it just as a discussion albeit a heated one or not. All of the folks I discuss it with in person are pretty much my opposite politically. And after our "discussion" we shake hands or give each other a hug. 99% of them meet the unsweetened ice tea criteria.

I have 'face to face' discussions with folks too.....but the internet is a funny place when talking about anything political...and any other controversial topic....words typed are without the body, or facial, mannerisms that can tip you off when things are cool..or rapidly deteriorating.......and then there's semantics...or a pseudo feeling of superior.....knowing a person only by their handle can cause things to be said that you wouldn't normally say with someone standing in front of you.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:25:48 pm
So it was a salt treaty.


...LOL.....not quite...... 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:38:32 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis

I have the feeling that most, if not all here, would pass the Iced Tea Treaty Criteria. Unsweetened of course.

And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now. Especially Jeb. He was a good governor but he would suck as POTUS.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:38:57 pm
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

LOL  Yep, I could never figure out why Ron got so upset about it.  I don't think any of us cared any more about whether he used salt, that we did about what kind of car he drove.  I remember telling him sevral times that I hoped he had good luck with it, but that just seemed to make him more obsessed about it.

I see him selling cories on AquaBid from time to time.  I wonder if he salts them too?

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:42:36 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis

Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....

I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....

...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....

..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....


Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:43:24 pm
Let us not forget the great salt debate!   :P

LOL  Yep, I could never figure out why Ron got so upset about it.  I don't think any of us cared any more about whether he used salt, that we did about what kind of car he drove.  I remember telling him sevral times that I hoped he had good luck with it, but that just seemed to make him more obsessed about it.

I see him selling cories on AquaBid from time to time. I wonder if he salts them too?

Dennis

LOL............that's bad.....LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:43:49 pm
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now.

That's really the problem isn't it.  I normally lean towards the Republicans as I've always thought the Democrats treated me as if I'm too stupid to look out for myself, but this last election......

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:45:34 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis

I have the feeling that most, if not all here, would pass the Iced Tea Treaty Criteria. Unsweetened of course.

And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now. Especially Jeb. He was a good governor but he would suck as POTUS.

I agree, there's slim pickings out there now....and Jeb?...what was he thinking when he tossed his hat in the ring.....Trump?...he's a carnival side show.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:49:04 pm
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....

Well let me be the first to say, that you do a wonderful job of keeping us on the straight and narrow Jon.  Your efforts are very much appreciated.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:53:53 pm
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now.

That's really the problem isn't it.  I normally lean towards the Republicans as I've always thought the Democrats treated me as if I'm too stupid to look out for myself, but this last election......

Dennis

Amen. Unfortunately the repubicans <<sic>> are looking like democrat lite. They were handed a mandate last election and are pretty much rubberstamping (not that I mind rubber stamping I worked for a marking device manufacturer for 10 years) the opposition.

The only ones I see coming out are Ted Cruz and maybe, maybe Scott Walker. Walker has some beliefs that don't run concurrent with mine. Trump, while correct and outspoken and pretty fearless about it just isn't POTUS material. Jeb and Common Core and immigration take him out of the game for me. Anyone who is for Common Core or illegal immigration won't get my vote.

You ever take those tests on line to see which party you relate too? Seems I am more Libertarian than Conservative.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:54:58 pm
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....

Well let me be the first to say, that you do a wonderful job of keeping us on the straight and narrow Jon.  Your efforts are very much appreciated.

Dennis

Thanks.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:57:17 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis

Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....

I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....

...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....

..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....

I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue. I do my best whether F2F or on Facebook to not do that even though some of the others will. If I were attacking on a personal level that means no Unsweetened Ice Tea. I don't like that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:00:36 pm
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas.  That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council.  These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.

I don't care if you agree with me or not.  Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share.  Let's hear it and we will go from there.  But it's a two way street.  Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.

It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.

Dennis

Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....

I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....

...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....

..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....

I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue. I do my best whether F@F or on Facebook to not do that even though some of the others will. If I were attacking on a personal level that means no Unsweetened Ice Tea. I don't like that.

Bingo.....ya nailed it.......it gets ugly quick after that...................
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 03:05:32 pm
Why the hell do I see the spelling mistake I make after someone quotes it? Arrrggghhhg
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 03:05:47 pm
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.

I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:09:52 pm
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.

I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.

Dennis

spot on Dennis...a second Bingo !!...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 03:11:49 pm
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.

I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.

Dennis

That needs a like button.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:24:19 pm
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 04:06:32 pm
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......

What were we originally discussing again?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 04:16:29 pm
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......

What were we originally discussing again?

LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 05:12:01 pm
If you salt the cories do you grill them or is it a cevich type dish?  :o
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 05:28:56 pm
If you salt the cories do you grill them or is it a cevich type dish?  :o

 oh joy, here we go......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 08:09:58 pm
Nicknamed the 'Donald Trump Caterpillar', this creature is actually a flannel moth. They are found in Mexico, southern parts of the US, and some parts of central America. This one was found in the Amazon rainforest

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/01/article-2317145-198D5145000005DC-43_634x476.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on July 09, 2015, 09:48:43 pm
Nicknamed the 'Donald Trump Caterpillar', this creature is actually a flannel moth. They are found in Mexico, southern parts of the US, and some parts of central America. This one was found in the Amazon rainforest

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/01/article-2317145-198D5145000005DC-43_634x476.jpg)

Poor thing.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 10, 2015, 08:05:33 am
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......

What were we originally discussing again?

LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)

Greece and Turkey. Do you baste the Turkey with the Greece when baking?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 10, 2015, 08:08:18 am
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......

What were we originally discussing again?

LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)

Greece and Turkey. Do you baste the Turkey with the Greece when baking?

You can add Puerto Rico to the mix....they're having issues too...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 10, 2015, 08:12:45 am
While Greece won't affect us too much PR may be a different story. Guess they're all running out of OPM
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 10, 2015, 08:14:39 am
..interesting read..........

======================
The Roots of Puerto Rico?s Debt Crisis?and Why Austerity Will Not Solve It
The US government is at least partially responsible for the emergency, which is affecting millions of what are effectively second-class US citizens.
By Ed Morales

Riding through the hills of Can?vanas last weekend with Prima, a vacationing 65-year-old Brooklynite who was born and raised in the Puerto Rican countryside, I got a brief lesson on the island?s history and political economy. ?This land was all ca?averales,? she said, meaning rough acres of sugarcane, which has now been replaced by mile after mile of suburban tract housing. ?When that ended, some people worked in factories and construction. Now, I don?t know what?s going to happen. I think the empire is collapsing.?


Today that history has caught up with the island. Puerto Rico?an unincorporated territory of the United States with 3.5 million US citizen residents who do not have the right to vote for president or representation in Congress?is making headlines these days because of its inability to pay a $72 billion debt owed to holders of its devalued bonds, often issued through such entities as the infamous PREPA, the electrical power authority. The threat of default was signaled by Governor Alejandro Garc?a Padilla?s admission last week to The New York Times that the debt was ?not payable.?

The debt crisis, which has spurred comparisons to Argentina, Detroit, and, of course, the recent tumultuous events in Greece, occurs at the climax of a local recession that began in 2006, two years before the Great Recession, and is accompanied by other bad news. Because of the government?s shrinking tax base and huge debt-service expense, a sales tax of 11.5 percent?higher than in any state in the Union?has been imposed. Hundreds of schools are closing, and more than 31,000 jobs have been lost since Garc?a Padilla took office two and a half years ago. A healthcare crisis is looming because of a proposed cut of $150 million in Medicare Advantage reimbursements. The unemployment rate, now more than 13 percent, is bad, but it pales in comparison to a dismal workforce participation rate of around 40 percent?far worse than the US rate, which is itself at a 38-year low of 62.6 percent. As a result, the island is in the throes of a persistent depopulation, with about 200,000 migrating to the mainland over the past decade.

What Puerto Rico has in common with Greece is that it is a peripheral economy that has been invaded by hedge funds and pushed, by speculation and ballooning debt-service payments, to its limits. But since Puerto Rico?s banks are tied to the US Federal Reserve and not its own government, there is no bank panic. What it has in common with Detroit is a history of inefficient administrations that borrowed to pay for pension payments and services, but, unlike municipalities in the 50 states, Puerto Rico cannot declare bankruptcy. Its territorial status also made its bonds triple-tax-exempt for any buyer, adding to the lure of their high yield and fueling the desires of an erratic muni bond market for paper that would quickly become junk.

Garc?a Padilla?s announcement came about a year after he passed a law to restructure the debt, which was struck down in court in February (on Tuesday the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston upheld the decision on appeal, citing a 1984 decision by Congress that excludes US territories from Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection). He simply came to the conclusion that with zero economic growth and a debt-to-GNP ratio of about 100 percent, the situation was untenable. ?This is not politics, this is math,? he said. The moderate mainstream holds that the island?s only recourse?a path that is supported by presidential candidates like Democrats Hillary Clinton and Martin O?Malley, independent Bernie Sanders, and Republican Jeb Bush?is to petition Congress to change the bankruptcy laws so that Puerto Rico would be allowed to file.

But even if bankruptcy protection were granted, it would most likely entail painful austerity measures. The recommendations of last week?s Krueger Report, ?Puerto Rico: A Way Forward,? commissioned by Puerto Rico?s government and put together by several current and former IMF employees, are clearly along those lines. Among other things, the report recommended shrinking the size of the government, lowering the minimum wage, and trimming federal entitlements?including Medicaid and Medicare, which would be a particularly dire step, since 2 million people, or roughly 60 percent of Puerto Rico?s residents, depend on those programs. The report also recommended making it more difficult to get overtime pay?on the same week that President Obama expanded it for US mainland workers. For its part, the Obama administration is saying that no bailout is being contemplated, although it is urging Congress to consider changing the law to allow Puerto Rico to declare bankruptcy. Last February, Pedro Pierluisi, the resident commissioner of Puerto Rico, who is the island?s non-voting representative in Congress and a member of both the pro-statehood party and the US Democratic Party, introduced HR 870, which would accomplish that. The bill has not made much progress, however; the latest action was in March, when it was referred to the Subcommittee on Regulatory Reform, Commercial and Antitrust Law. Most House Republicans are against the measure, considering it a bailout, despite the fact that most of Puerto Rico?s pro-statehood party is affiliated with the GOP, most notably Alaska?s Don Young.

In his telecast speech on June 30, Garc?a Padilla said he was not in favor of lowering wages, but he also said he would push for ?legislation to make our laws more competitive? to promote job creation, which is code for doing just that. What many left-leaning Puerto Rican economists and political theorists are saying is that they agree, as the Krueger Report says, that the island?s economy has deep structural problems. It?s the report?s remedy that they disagree with, especially when it?s been shown that austerity in times of recession tends to depress economies further.

Working People?s Party spokesperson and University of Puerto Rico professor Rafael Bernabe supports a recent legislative proposal to audit the debt, as was done in Greece, where that process called the imposition of the debt ?premeditated? and ?immoral.? In fact, Puerto Rico has become the victim of a high-stakes game of hedge-fund casino gambling, with about 43 percent of the debt held by so-called vulture funds and Wall Street banks and lawyers charging over $1.4 billion in a seven-year period between 2006 and 2013 for charges like swap termination fees. ?We want to study the general conditions that led to the creation of the debt, the terms of the contracts, the role of intermediaries,? said Bernabe in an interview with The Nation.

For the most part, the debt crisis has been portrayed as something that arose after the advent of the current ten-year recession. But in fact, Puerto Rico?s government has been borrowing to finance its expenses since the 1970s, when the limited success of the post?World War II Operation Bootstrap, which transformed its economy from an agricultural one to a light manufacturing one, lost its luster. The resulting cure, Section 936 of the IRS code, exempted US and multinational corporations from paying taxes on profits, but that spur to investment was phased out between 1996 and 2006. Meanwhile, NAFTA had already depressed wages in nearby Mexico, making Puerto Rican workers too high-priced, and a construction and infrastructure building boom that was partly financed by bond-selling had burst, driving the island?s economy into its current death spiral.

Herein lies the Puerto Rican economy?s ?structural problem?: It?s not about workers having salaries and benefits that are too high; it?s about the fact that the island?s territorial status means that since the days of the 19th-century sugar growers, whose drive to avoid tariffs were an early manifestation of hemispheric free trade, capital has fled the island at a steady rate, without interruption. ?The economy of Puerto Rico is mainly controlled by US corporations, which generate a tremendous amount of profit that is not reinvested and does not create economic growth,? said Bernabe. ?It?s a cycle of dependency that reproduces itself.?

It?s reasonable to ask whether the US government is at least partially responsible for the crisis?both through creation of the nebulous commonwealth status and the actions of its financial institutions?and whether it has a moral obligation to help resolve it through financial support. In 2004, legal scholar Pedro Malavet suggested that it was the social construction of Puerto Ricans as a non-white race that made them ?unassimilable as Americans,? cementing their colonized status, and that they were therefore owed reparations.

While the idea of asking for reparations may have lost its feasibility after the Great Recession, both the United States and the ruling party of Puerto Rico should begin to view the debt crisis as a human problem affecting millions of what are effectively second-class US citizens, and not a matter of business mathematics. If mainstream politics on the mainland refuses to consider a restructuring of the US economy away from a blind profit motive, it should at least have the intelligence and decency to help Puerto Rico restructure its own economy to create new modes of capital reinvestment on the island, just as it would anywhere on the mainland.

Some argue that a change in political status is necessary to effect real change in the economy. Statehooders push for entrance to the union?highly unlikely, given the Republican-controlled Congress bent on reducing spending, which statehood would sharply increase, not to mention the probability that Puerto Rican voters would send Democratic representatives and senators to Congress. On June 22, the UN Special Committee on Decolonization called once again for the United States to ?expedite a process that would allow Puerto Ricans to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence.?

Any movement for independence, which might choose to lobby for reparations, needs to highlight class, race, and gender marginalization, as well as environmental reform, as part of its agenda. New parties that do not prioritize status change, such as All Puerto Ricans for Puerto Rico, the Sovereign Unity Movement, and the Working People?s Party have tried to enter the arena, but according to political scientist Manuel Almeida, ?the rules of the game? in the island?s political structure have hindered their emergence. Puerto Rico?s ruling party has used technical challenges to delay the Working People?s Party?s re-certification for elections, despite electoral reform that had allowed the new parties to field candidates for the 2012 elections.

With an overly moralistic tone directed at the island?s mostly Catholic residents, Governor Garc?a Padilla spoke of ?shared sacrifices,? in which the community, supposedly complicit in the actions of an irresponsible government, would share the pain with the bondholders. But many Puerto Ricans I?ve spoken with, from academia to the working class, agree that they?ve sacrificed enough, and that it?s time for those most responsible for creating this mess to own up to their transgressions.

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-roots-of-puerto-ricos-debt-crisis-and-why-austerity-will-not-solve-it/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 11, 2015, 09:27:06 am
Pope calls for new economic order, criticizes capitalism


Pope Francis on Thursday urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a "new colonialism" by agencies that impose austerity programs and calling for the poor to have the "sacred rights" of labor, lodging and land.
In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the "so-called conquest of America."
Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money "the dung of the devil," and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labor for developed countries.
Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical "Laudato Si" on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.
Francis made the address to participants of the second world meeting of popular movements, an international body that brings together organizations of people on the margins of society, including the poor, the unemployed and peasants who have lost their land. The Vatican hosted the first meeting last year.
He said he supported their efforts to obtain "so elementary and undeniably necessary a right as that of the three ?L?s?: land, lodging and labor."
His speech was preceded by lengthy remarks from leftist Bolivian President Evo Morales, who wore a jacket adorned with the face of Argentine revolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara. He was executed in Bolivia in 1967 by CIA-backed Bolivian troops.
"Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change," the pope said, decrying a system that "has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0PJ29B20150710
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 11, 2015, 10:10:48 am
That's cute, and coming from the leader of what?s probably the wealthiest institution in the entire world.  Heaven knows the catholic church has never participated in the unfettered pursuit of money or worldly goods.  LOL

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 11, 2015, 10:21:06 am
That's cute, and coming from the leader of what?s probably the wealthiest institution in the entire world.  Heaven knows the catholic church has never participated in the unfettered pursuit of money or worldly goods.  LOL

Dennis

The church's all have many sins....the current Pope can' be blamed for them at all.....I'm not Catholic, but it's obvious that he's way different than past papal leaders. I give him kudos for speaking out.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 11, 2015, 10:44:36 am
.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...

He's definitely got his work cut out for him....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 11, 2015, 01:59:22 pm
.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...

He's definitely got his work cut out for him....

Dennis

...that he does....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 12, 2015, 07:51:16 am
Pope Francis and Humane Ecology

http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/ (http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 12, 2015, 07:55:49 am
Pope Francis and Humane Ecology

http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/ (http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/)

Dennis

"Francis offers a hopeful, humane ecology. As John Murdock argues, anyone looking for good companion reading for Laudato Si? should consider the works of Wendell Berry, who has spent the past half century articulating his own Christian integral ecology. The title of Berry?s most recent essay collection is Our Only World, while the title page of Laudato Si? defines its subject as the ?care of our common home.? At the end of one essay Berry writes, ?To learn to meet our needs without continuous violence against each other and our only world would require an immense intellectual and practical effort, requiring the help of every human being perhaps to the end of human time. This would be work worthy of the name ?human.? It would be fascinating and lovely.? Laudato Si? suggests that Pope Francis would agree."

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 13, 2015, 06:32:32 pm
Borowitz breaks me up......LOL

(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Borowitz-Scott-Walker-690.jpg)

MADISON, WISCONSIN (The Borowitz Report) ? Serving notice that he intends to go toe-to-toe with the controversial real-estate mogul, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker used the official announcement of his Presidential candidacy to assure Republican voters that he is as horrible as Donald Trump.

?Donald Trump has grabbed a lot of headlines over the past few weeks by spewing bigotry and venom,? Walker told an enthusiastic crowd of supporters. ?I want to make it clear that when it comes to those things, I take a back seat to no one.?

Concluding his speech with a line that triggered a standing ovation, Walker said, ?To those who thought Donald Trump was the only sociopath in the race, let me say this: not anymore.?

Prior to his announcement, aides to the Wisconsin governor had privately fretted that by establishing his identity as an arrogant and ill-informed merchant of hatred, Trump had appropriated Walker?s brand.

In the hopes of proving that Trump has no monopoly on odiousness, aides have released a point-by-point comparison showing that on such key issues as worker?s rights and health care, Walker is just as terrifying as the former reality-show host.

Acknowledging that Trump has dominated media attention for now, Walker?s aides believe that the governor will eventually reclaim his rightful mantle as the worst person in the race.

?Sooner or later, the Trump candidacy is going to fall apart and voters are going to be looking for another dick to vote for,? one aide said. ?Scott Walker wants to be that dick.?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 13, 2015, 07:45:38 pm
LOL...stole this pic.... ;D

(http://freedomslighthouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2016possiblegopcontenders101.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: b125killer on July 13, 2015, 08:07:58 pm
I think they need about two dozen more people lol. Can anyone name them all, I think i can name a few.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 13, 2015, 08:16:04 pm
I think they need about two dozen more people lol. Can anyone name them all, I think i can name a few.

Question is...?.....Does anyone want to know all their names.....LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 13, 2015, 08:38:53 pm
While I like Ben Carson as a person, and what he stands for, to me he's not POTUS. I like Walker but his stance on immigration is wrong. Perry is just blah. Rubio has issues. Bush I loved as FL gov. but he's gone lib lite. Trump would be great for the economy. But I doubt he can work with Congress. And he's flip flopped parties too many times. The rest are all RINOs.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on July 14, 2015, 02:39:36 am
Mixed Nuts.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 14, 2015, 07:29:29 pm

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 14, 2015, 07:46:14 pm
The solution has been found!

http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3 (http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 14, 2015, 07:48:26 pm
The solution has been found!

http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3 (http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3)

Dennis

LOL......excellent  ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 15, 2015, 07:55:59 am
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 15, 2015, 07:57:19 am
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies


Love the satire Jon.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 15, 2015, 07:58:31 am
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies


Love the satire Jon.

LOL...and Borowitz rocks it well..... ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 15, 2015, 08:05:30 am
Trump your cat.... ;D
http://mashable.com/2015/07/14/trump-your-cat/ (http://mashable.com/2015/07/14/trump-your-cat/)

(https://instagram.com/p/5GEFtKRkMp/media/?size=l)

(http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzA3LzE0L2JjL3RydW1wY2F0LjRhNWJjLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/cc8d8e42/a93/trump-cat.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 18, 2015, 12:52:26 pm
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/27f299a44be92c98d2c713d80f57f585/tumblr_nrn3qmTQyK1qav5oho1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 18, 2015, 02:09:52 pm
Today Donald Trump criticized Arizona Senator John McCain?s heroism during the Vietnam War. ?He was a war hero because he was captured,? Trump said at today?s Family Leadership Summit, in Ames, Iowa. ?I like people who weren?t captured.?

Trump is rising in the polls because he says outrageous things like this, which cause other Republicans to lash out at him (several GOP candidates have already criticized him for today?s McCain remark), making Trump seem even more of a rebel and outsider. It?s the strategy of a demagogue.

Should the media be reporting Trump?s bizarre antics at all?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on July 18, 2015, 08:25:20 pm
He stirs the pot, man!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 18, 2015, 08:52:09 pm
Democrats love this guy (Trump).

He is establishing the Republican's brand for them in a bad way (from a PR point of view).
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on July 19, 2015, 06:26:07 am
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on July 19, 2015, 06:36:53 am
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be.

+1
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 19, 2015, 07:11:43 am
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be.


He's just a diversion....albeit, an idiot diversion.....make that a loud mouth idiot diversion... 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 19, 2015, 08:56:49 am
Far too many folks in this country have a Jerry Springer mentality.  If he doesn't drop out, I think you might be surprised how many votes he gets.  I was certainly taken back by the number of folks that voted for Romney after he basically said the retired and hard working people of this country were just second rate citizens in his book. 

It would certainly be nice if the republicans would field a viable candidate this time around.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 19, 2015, 08:58:35 am
Far too many folks in this country have a Jerry Springer mentality.  If he doesn't drop out, I think you might be surprised how many votes he gets.  I was certainly taken back by the number of folks that voted for Romney after he basically said the retired and hard working people of this country were just second rate citizens in his book. 

It would certainly be nice if the republicans would field a viable candidate this time around.....

Dennis

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/19/how_did_this_monster_get_created_the_decades_of_gop_lies_that_brought_us_donald_trump_republican_front_runner/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/07/19/how_did_this_monster_get_created_the_decades_of_gop_lies_that_brought_us_donald_trump_republican_front_runner/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 19, 2015, 09:31:37 am
Nice read Jon.  Yes, perhaps the republican party is so full of itself that it will never right the ship.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 19, 2015, 09:45:37 am
Nice read Jon.  Yes, perhaps the republican party is so full of itself that it will never right the ship.....

Dennis

Yes, they are, as evident by mass race for the nomination.....no cohesiveness at all.....just a 'clown car' full of egos....sad.....we really do need better choices than are being presented...by both parties.

Lots of folks are with Bernie, but while he has good ideas, and a proven public record being for the middle class....he is not Presidential material IMHO...he'll get eaten alive in that position. He and Warren are much better off in supportive roles. That is where they work the best.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 19, 2015, 01:38:43 pm
Although I am strongly Democratic, I have in the past voted for various Republicans who seemed to make sense to me.

This is the situation I would prefer because there is greater choice and I like the idea of two different sides in a somewhat wavering balance with each other as the "pendulum" of who is in ascendancy goes from one side to the other. This has been destroyed by the take no prisoners, my side is always right, I don't have to consider your facts way of the media, especially Fox non-News.

Unfortunately, many of those Republicans that had more moderate views have been virtually driven away from the GOP by the extremists. Several of them are now Democrats. Jim Webb and another candidate (whose name I can't remember right now) are former Republicans running to be the Democratic candidate.

The Republicans party seems to be in a demographic trap right now.
They have a lot of older members with ideas not in tune with where the culture is going, that like to insult and discriminate against minority voters.
The older group will eventually die off, freeing them to a more rational course, but I would guess many of the minorities will remember the way they were treated for a while, until the GOP can recover its credibility with them.
This is something that is doable. In the early 60's, the situation with minorities was kind of reversed. The Republicans were fairly positive toward civil rights and southern Democrats were not. After Prez. Johnson did things like the voting rights act, and Prez. Nixon's team came up with their southern strategy, the south went from being the solid Democratic south to what is now a pretty solid Republican south. However, minority changes in the voters in the south are now changing that in places like Virginia and in a few years in other states.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 19, 2015, 08:04:10 pm
Although I am strongly Democratic, I have in the past voted for various Republicans who seemed to make sense to me.

This is the situation I would prefer because there is greater choice and I like the idea of two different sides in a somewhat wavering balance with each other as the "pendulum" of who is in ascendancy goes from one side to the other. This has been destroyed by the take no prisoners, my side is always right, I don't have to consider your facts way of the media, especially Fox non-News.

Unfortunately, many of those Republicans that had more moderate views have been virtually driven away from the GOP by the extremists. Several of them are now Democrats. Jim Webb and another candidate (whose name I can't remember right now) are former Republicans running to be the Democratic candidate.

The Republicans party seems to be in a demographic trap right now.
They have a lot of older members with ideas not in tune with where the culture is going, that like to insult and discriminate against minority voters.
The older group will eventually die off, freeing them to a more rational course, but I would guess many of the minorities will remember the way they were treated for a while, until the GOP can recover its credibility with them.
This is something that is doable. In the early 60's, the situation with minorities was kind of reversed. The Republicans were fairly positive toward civil rights and southern Democrats were not. After Prez. Johnson did things like the voting rights act, and Prez. Nixon's team came up with their southern strategy, the south went from being the solid Democratic south to what is now a pretty solid Republican south. However, minority changes in the voters in the south are now changing that in places like Virginia and in a few years in other states.
There are many younger minorities in the Republican party. The current contingent of possible candidates however is too far to the left for a Conservative however and they are losing their base voting block. Even me. I do like Cruz. And as I've said before I loved Jeb as Gov but would never vote for him in the primary. If he went up against Hillary I of course would have no choice but I would be holding the metaphorical nose while doing so.
The Republicans, the old school Republicans did everything they could for blacks of the time. The democrats just gave them free stuff.
Looking back through history I can't see any democrat I would have voted for POTUS save JFK. By today's standards he'd be a Republican. While everyone loves to say Reagan was always for lower taxes it was actually Kennedy's belief also. Way different from today's Democrat.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 20, 2015, 12:20:59 am
Quote
There are many younger minorities in the Republican party.

Really? Name them (groups not individuals).
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 20, 2015, 06:54:29 am
(http://high-street.org/img/dtrump2015-07-19.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 20, 2015, 10:02:30 pm
Here is a link to an article on Nate Silver's 538 website about Trump and his apparent campaign strategy:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6 (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 06:04:59 am
Here is a link to an article on Nate Silver's 538 website about Trump and his apparent campaign strategy:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6 (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6)

...good find...... ;D...and yes he is.....LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 06:30:18 am
(http://i.imgur.com/EnpentG.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 08:05:10 am
He's a secularist.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 21, 2015, 11:38:26 am
Quote
He's a secularist.

To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 12:19:41 pm
Quote
He's a secularist.

To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.

It's not.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 12:32:05 pm
Quote
He's a secularist.

To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.

It's not.
Quote
He's a secularist.




To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.

LOL......good try 'G'.... ;D.....a compliment it is..... 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on July 21, 2015, 01:12:23 pm
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM

    Quote

        He's a secularist.


    To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.


It's not.
Report to moderator   Logged

Thus spoke the Ayatollah.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 21, 2015, 05:47:25 pm
'Monsanto's Dream': Pro-GMO DARK Act Comes to Congress

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/03/25/monsantos-dream-pro-gmo-dark-act-comes-congress (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/03/25/monsantos-dream-pro-gmo-dark-act-comes-congress)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 06:34:55 pm
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM

    Quote

        He's a secularist.


    To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.


It's not.
Report to moderator   Logged

Thus spoke the Ayatollah.


(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 08:46:11 pm
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM

    Quote

        He's a secularist.


    To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.


It's not.
Report to moderator   Logged

Thus spoke the Ayatollah.


(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)

Wait. Isn't it the Dems always blaming Bush for everything? Maybe they'd rather believe what comes from MSNBC.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 08:51:05 pm
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM

    Quote

        He's a secularist.


    To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.


It's not.
Report to moderator   Logged

Thus spoke the Ayatollah.


(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)

Wait. Isn't it the Dems always blaming Bush for everything? Maybe they'd rather believe what comes from MSNBC.

No one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 10:14:53 pm
Quote
No one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....

Neither was Fox but it was brought up.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 03:19:28 am
Quote
No one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....

Neither was Fox but it was brought up.

It was???....all I see is a pic with the candidates a few pages back, or so....??......and not related really to anything Bush/MSNBC....so nope still not relevant.........

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 08:09:36 am
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 08:55:05 am
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?

Oh good grief.....I guess it's the sign's fault then......ask them.....LOLOLOLOL....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 09:39:39 am
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?

Oh good grief.....I guess it's the sign's fault then......ask them.....LOLOLOLOL....

Wasn't it you that posted the picture of the sign Jon?

:)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on July 22, 2015, 11:00:21 am
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 11:30:51 am
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.

Dennis

The facts however are not on your side Dennis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/09/fox-news-is-the-most-trusted-national-news-channel-and-its-not-that-close/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 11:51:04 am
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.

Dennis

The facts however are not on your side Dennis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/09/fox-news-is-the-most-trusted-national-news-channel-and-its-not-that-close/

LOL...you're quoting the 'washingtonpost'.....LOL....

the following is from the Fox news site....http://www.foxnews.com/about/terms-of-use/ (http://www.foxnews.com/about/terms-of-use/)

"Terms of Use"
     
Description of FOX News Services and Acceptance of Terms of Use

Welcome to this Fox News Network, L.L.C. Site, which is owned and operated by Fox News Network, L.L.C. ("FOX News" or "we"). The services offered by FOX News include foxnews.com, foxbusiness.com, foxnation.com, foxnews.mobi, m.foxbusiness.com, the FOX News iPhone application, the FOX Business iPhone application, and any FOX News - branded URL, WAP site and mobile application (collectively, the "Site"), FOX News messaging services, video services, RSS feeds, podcasting services, mobile services, and any other feature, content, or applications offered from time to time by FOX News in connection with FOX News and FOX Business (collectively, the "FOX News Services"). FOX News is based in the United States and the FOX News Services are hosted in the United States.

FOX News furnishes the Site and the FOX News Services for your personal enjoyment and entertainment. By visiting the Site (whether or not you are a registered member) or using the FOX News Services, you accept and agree to be bound by this Terms of Use Agreement, including any future modifications ("Agreement"), and to abide by all applicable laws, rules and regulations ("Applicable Law"). Please read through this Agreement carefully. FOX News may modify this Agreement at any time, and each such modification will be effective upon posting on the Site. All material modifications will apply prospectively only. Your continued use of the Site or the FOX News Services following any such modification constitutes your acceptance and agreement to be bound by the Agreement as so modified. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly. If you do not agree to be bound by this Agreement and to abide by all Applicable Law, you must discontinue use of the FOX News Services immediately. You may receive a copy of this Agreement by emailing us at: foxnewsonline@foxnews.com, Subject: Terms of Use Agreement. Your access to and use of certain FOX News Services may require you to accept additional terms and conditions applicable to such FOX News Services, in addition to this Agreement, and may require you to download Software or Content (each as defined below).
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 11:54:13 am
Breaking: Murdoch splits empire, places Fox News in Entertainment Division

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/28/1103852/-Breaking-Murdoch-splits-empire-places-Fox-News-in-Entertainment-Division (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/28/1103852/-Breaking-Murdoch-splits-empire-places-Fox-News-in-Entertainment-Division)

No, this is not snark.

Following up on my diary from yesterday: News Corporation is being split into separate entertainment and publishing companies, in part to isolate the money making former from the phone hacking related liabilities of the latter.

The publishing company will will include News International's UK newspapers, the Sun, the Times and the Sunday Times, along with the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, Dow Jones news and financial information service, the Australian, HarperCollins book publishing operation, and News Corp's fledgling digital education business.

It takes with it the threat of $1 billion in costs due to the phone-hacking scandel, and faces possibly 500 claims in UK civil courts as well as possible criminal prosecutions for current and former staff.

The other company will contain the more profitable operations in the Murdoch Empire, including 20th Century Fox, Fox broadcast network and Fox News Channel.

Yes, that's correct. Fox News has been officially acknowledged to be entertainment.

Guardian report here.

WSJ report here.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 12:33:04 pm
Jon, all of the "news" channels are for the most part entertainment. Hannity, O'Reilly, and whoever is there on CNN are entertainers. Rachel Madcow is a joke and is not included here of course.

I quoted the most liberal source around to show even they acknowledge Fox is numero uno. I just saw the irony in it. Daily Kos is another liberal bastion of misinformation. But alas even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Of course many people get their news from Jon Stewart. Intelligent people however do not.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 02:22:42 pm
Jon, all of the "news" channels are for the most part entertainment. Hannity, O'Reilly, and whoever is there on CNN are entertainers. Rachel Madcow is a joke and is not included here of course.

I quoted the most liberal source around to show even they acknowledge Fox is numero uno. I just saw the irony in it. Daily Kos is another liberal bastion of misinformation. But alas even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Of course many people get their news from Jon Stewart. Intelligent people however do not.

bunk they are.......... ;D.....Fox is entertainment not news....period.... ;D...at least they admit that.. 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 02:33:08 pm
So Jon who do you go to for "news"?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 03:33:21 pm
So Jon who do you go to for "news"?


LOL....they all suck....I watch local news for the sports/weather, and then pick around a couple different news outlets to catch the 'slant' each puts on a story.......then just try to sort it out. ....I'll check the 'Onion', 'Mother Jones', New York Times, and sometimes America.aljazeera.....amongst others....Borowitz and the 'Onion' can be clues... ;D.....satire does reveal the truth more often than not.....Fox/MSNBC/CNN etal, don't bother with any real reporting anymore(did they ever?)...altho I used to enjoy Christiane Amanpour's storys from the mid-east.....

Heck, even Danzinger's 'toons' are about spot on...... ;D
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/ (http://www.danzigercartoons.com/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 04:41:32 pm
LOL...good old Fox....and CNN....at least CNN is having a low poll'r debate too.....I mean, why should we hear em all??....let the polls/news sort em out for the electorate at large.......

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/06/debates-republican-forbes-richardson/29560593/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/06/debates-republican-forbes-richardson/29560593/)

10-candidate debate: Circus, cattle call or hot mess?

Although most of the talk about the opening Republican presidential debate, exactly one month away on Aug. 6, has focused on the 10-candidate limit and who'll make the cut, there's a more basic question: What's gained from what veterans of past mass gabfests variously describe as a circus, a cattle call or a hot mess?

In big debates, sound bites shrink to nibbles, and most contestants don't even get those. "Smaller is better,'' says Bill Richardson, the former New Mexico governor and United Nations ambassador who competed with Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and others during the Democratic primaries eight years ago.

ONPOLITICS

2016 primary debate schedule

But even skeptics agree that, given the unprecedented number of candidates, a large, multi-candidate forum is like democracy itself ? the worst alternative save all the others, including no debate at all.

Fox News hosts the first of a potential 12 GOP debates, which will be held in Cleveland. (The Democrats will have six debates, with the first coming sometime in the fall.) The network plans to limit it to the 10 leading candidates (though that could increase, considering any ties) in opinion polls; CNN, sponsor of the second debate, has a similar plan, plus a debate for the second tier.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 06:46:23 pm
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11755710_1135708519778106_6364171975828952252_n.jpg?oh=eb4cbb1d33d91ca6e49648d4413d0fce&oe=560DD39D)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on July 23, 2015, 06:37:18 am
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Borowitz-Trump-Scandal-690.jpg)

DES MOINES, IOWA (The Borowitz Report)?Businessman Donald Trump?s failure to insult fellow G.O.P. hopeful John Kasich a full twenty-four hours after the Ohio governor entered the  2016 Presidential race has sent Trump?s poll numbers plummeting, as many supporters expressed a sudden loss of confidence in the real-estate mogul.

Trump?s Kasich gaffe occurred at a campaign rally in Des Moines on Wednesday, when the former reality-show star admitted that he did not yet know enough about the Ohio governor to properly insult him.

?I could get up here and call Kasich a loser, because my gut tells me that?s what he is, but you?ve come to expect something more special out of me,? Trump said. ?If you bear with me, I promise you that I?ll come up with a world-class insult that we can all be proud of.?

The audience reacted with stunned silence, leading some observers to question whether Trump?s failure to insult Kasich would turn from a mere gaffe into a full-blown scandal.

Carol Foyler, a Trump supporter who attended the Des Moines event, said that she still liked Trump because of the insults he had delivered in the past, but she acknowledged that her belief in him had been shaken.

?When you?re in the White House and that phone rings, you?ve got to be ready to insult someone right away,? she said.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 08:36:13 am
GOP debate format....

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?The Republican National Committee has released the format for its first 2016 Presidential debate, to be broadcast by Fox News on August 6th:

1. Question from moderator to Donald Trump;

2. Ignoring of question by Donald Trump, followed by personal attack on Jeb Bush;

3. Feeble attempt at rebuttal by Jeb Bush;

4. Interruption by Donald Trump, followed by attack on other eight candidates on stage;

5. Attempted moderation by moderator;

6. Personal attack on moderator by Donald Trump, followed by gratuitous attack on Rick Santorum;

7. Reaction shot of stone-faced Rick Santorum, excluded from debate but sitting in audience;

8. Concluding statement by Donald Trump, including attack on Fox News? ?cheap-looking? debate set;

9. Demand for apology by Mexicans, veterans, China, Bobby Jindal?s mom, and other people attacked during debate by Donald Trump;

10. Donald Trump declared winner by Donald Trump.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on August 05, 2015, 10:19:47 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 am
This is why Republicans look like a bunch of clowns:
(from some political joke website I lost track of; its a bit dated but still relevant)


Things Republicans Believe

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.

"Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 11:38:21 am
...good list there, Bill...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 05, 2015, 01:43:20 pm
This one is my favorite.....

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance  LOL   See post #1

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:35:53 pm
This one is my favorite.....

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance  LOL   See post #1

Dennis

See post #10
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 03:37:03 pm
This one is my favorite.....

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance  LOL   See post #1

Dennis

See post #10


LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4  ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:39:28 pm
This one is my favorite.....

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance  LOL   See post #1

Dennis

See post #10


LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4  ;D


See post 19-3 subset b subset d subset c.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 03:50:10 pm
This one is my favorite.....

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance  LOL   See post #1

Dennis

See post #10


LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4  ;D


See post 19-3 subset b subset d subset c.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 06, 2015, 08:17:30 pm
Ok...who's watching the debate??.....or are you waiting for the sounds bites afterwards on the news??.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 06, 2015, 08:20:06 pm
I've been watching the chase.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 06, 2015, 10:09:25 pm
Watched it I did. Megyn Kelly is hot.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 06, 2015, 10:43:28 pm
I watched it.

Kasich seemed to me the most normal and in a general election probably the most electable of both groups.
He and Santorum seem to be the only Republicans that really have any feeling for the non-rich.
Santorum is way too fire breathing religions for me.

I also liked Rand Paul's thing on privacy.

A lot of questions and answers were pretty shallow: right wing button pushing and applause lines.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 07, 2015, 01:50:43 pm
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Borowitz-Psychologists-Urge-People-With-Low-Self-Esteem-to-Watch-GOP-Debate-690.jpg)

MINNESOTA (The Borowitz Report)?Psychologists at the University of Minnesota have issued a research study recommending that people suffering from low self-esteem watch Thursday night?s nationally televised Republican debate.

The recommendation came after the psychologists spent weeks showing research subjects video clips of the debate?s potential participants and observed striking improvements in the subjects? overall morale and sense of worth.

?We interviewed the volunteers before we exposed them to the Republican candidates and afterward,? said psychologist Davis Logsdon. ?The spike in their self-esteem was off the charts.?

Of the candidates who most improved the research subjects? sense of self, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush were found to be consistently helpful, but the most marked increase in self-esteem levels came after the subjects were exposed to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

According to the data, people who viewed Walker for approximately three minutes reported feeling better ?right away? about their intelligence, knowledge, and prospects for obtaining high-status employment that they had previously considered well beyond their reach.

?After watching Governor Walker, a substantial number of the subjects literally could not remember why they had ever felt bad about themselves,? Logsdon said.

In addition to recommending that low self-esteem-sufferers watch the debate, Logsdon is advising them to D.V.R. the entire two hours. ?You never know when you might need it again,? he said.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/psychologists-urge-people-with-low-self-esteem-to-watch-g-o-p-debate?intcid=mod-most-popular
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: big b on August 07, 2015, 10:24:56 pm
 http://www.usdebtclock.org/ This right here, I am gonna check it when I turn 18. When I turn 15 I am gonna write down the number this has on it then I am gonna do the same on my 18 birthday. I am then gonna compare it and be like" Wow....."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 08, 2015, 06:19:01 am
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ This right here, I am gonna check it when I turn 18. When I turn 15 I am gonna write down the number this has on it then I am gonna do the same on my 18 birthday. I am then gonna compare it and be like" Wow....."

I think you'll find that most nations would have a similar clock, just as frightening...if not more so...Greece's would spin so fast that you couldn't read it...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 08, 2015, 09:38:38 am
A very good article......worth the read...

Jon Stewart changed the way I think about TV news.

He's always been a hero of mine. As he finishes his last week at Comedy Central, I wanted to reflect on the moment he opened my eyes to the way the world really works.

The most important thing he ever taught me wasn't on "The Daily Show."

It was on another show entirely. A horrible show. A show that represented everything wrong with our country's political discourse. The show that was the precursor to all the worst things on cable news today.

It was the CNN show "Crossfire."

----more----

http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3 (http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 08, 2015, 12:10:28 pm
Good read, thanks Jon.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 08, 2015, 02:29:25 pm
Quote
It was the CNN show "Crossfire."

----more----

http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3

As I recall he kinda killed that show.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 08, 2015, 02:59:29 pm
Quote
It was the CNN show "Crossfire."

----more----

http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3

As I recall he kinda killed that show.

It talks about that in the article.....yes
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on August 09, 2015, 09:49:25 am
Good read..Yes.  I'm sitting here wondering why I know nothing about this fellow. I would have liked his show, I'm sure. Especially since he graduated from William & Mary College where my son did also!!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 10, 2015, 08:35:31 am
(http://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/trump.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 10, 2015, 10:12:25 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11825211_908952339197821_2065279993013004973_n.jpg?oh=e9ec0cb64ffe2bda54c6bee3259dcef6&oe=563FBFF5)

Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office.  It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 10, 2015, 11:19:05 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11825211_908952339197821_2065279993013004973_n.jpg?oh=e9ec0cb64ffe2bda54c6bee3259dcef6&oe=563FBFF5)

Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office.  It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.

Dennis

I agree. >:(
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on August 10, 2015, 11:31:24 am
The only thing MOST republicans are interested in is obstruction, many are obsessed with it,and the rest just follow the crowd out of fear of their own party.
And the same people that call Obama a trader and unamerican absolutly love these assholes.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 10, 2015, 01:48:18 pm
The problem with the establishment GOP is they are RINOs. Time for the Ted Cruzes to unite and stop the Hussein Express. Time for the old guard like Boehner and McConnell and Graham to go to the glue factory. Do not pass through the pasture at all. Right to the glue factory. And take Pelosi, Hussein, Reid et al with them.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 10, 2015, 01:50:45 pm
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11825211_908952339197821_2065279993013004973_n.jpg?oh=e9ec0cb64ffe2bda54c6bee3259dcef6&oe=563FBFF5)

Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office.  It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.

Dennis

I agree. >:(

By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?

Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on August 10, 2015, 05:03:42 pm
 

 [/quote]

By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?

Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
[/quote]

The Democrats doing something to help America,HA can't have any of that,that would mean that they were actually able to accomplish something.Better nip that in the bud before it starts,wouldn't want them making us look bad.

Use to be the dems weren't much better,but i think the GOP is running away with stupidity now.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 10, 2015, 10:46:29 pm


 

By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?

Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
[/quote]

The Democrats doing something to help America,HA can't have any of that,that would mean that they were actually able to accomplish something.Better nip that in the bud before it starts,wouldn't want them making us look bad.

Use to be the dems weren't much better,but i think the GOP is running away with stupidity now.
[/quote]
What exactly have they done to help America? What has been done since January 09 that has not been a colossal failure.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 12:43:45 am
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 07:44:37 am
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.

I asked the question first.

Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 11, 2015, 08:10:10 am
(http://www.globereport.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/monica.jpg)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 08:29:23 am
yep.....the 'for life' part is what gets me....hell, they're not working now....why should we believe that they'll do so when out of office??..
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 11, 2015, 08:32:14 am
yep.....the 'for life' part is what gets me....hell, they're not working now....why should we believe that they'll do so when out of office??..

When they are out of office that's when they start working; for the lobbyist. Then they get paid from both sides. ??? >:(
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 09:14:53 am
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.

I asked the question first.

Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.

HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 09:36:10 am
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.

I asked the question first.

Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.

HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.

What did you think? That is part of his name. He's also known as Barry Soetoro.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 10:31:19 am
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.

I asked the question first.

Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.

HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.

What did you think? That is part of his name. He's also known as Barry Soetoro.

I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....

   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 10:55:40 am
I?ve written previously about the growing fear among elites that they?ve pushed economic inequality too far. That fear is proliferating, according to a New York Times Op-Ed this weekend by former marketing conglomerate CEO Peter Georgescu. Joined by his friend Ken Langone, founder of Home Depot, Georgescu warns his fellow 1 percenters that ?[w]e are creating a caste system from which it?s almost impossible to escape.? The column raises the specter of ?major social unrest? if inequality is not addressed.

Georgescu writes:

I?m scared. The billionaire hedge funder Paul Tudor Jones is scared. My friend Ken Langone, a founder of the Home Depot, is scared. So are many other chief executives. Not of Al Qaeda, or the vicious Islamic State or some other evolving radical group from the Middle East, Africa or Asia. We are afraid where income inequality will lead.

In June, Cartier chief Johann Rupert ? worth an estimated $7.5 billion ? delivered the same message to his wealthy colleagues, telling them that the intensifying inequality and what it portends ?keeps me awake at night.? He told his fellow elites that ?We are destroying the middle classes at this stage and it will affect us.? Like Georgescu and Langone, Rupert feared unrest and asked, ?How is society going to cope with structural unemployment and the envy, hatred and the social warfare??

But while Rupert only mused about the prospects for continuing to hawk jewelry and the restfulness of his nights amid the tumult, Georgescu and Langone are being proactive. Georgescu writes that he and Langone ?have been meeting with chief executives, trying to get action on inequality,? taking advantage of Langone?s tremendous access to business leaders. ?You?d be hard-pressed to find a major CEO that wouldn?t take his call,? said a close associate of Rudy Giuliani of Langone in 2012. Georgescu and Langone are telling their patrician peers that if ?inequality is not addressed, the income gap will most likely be resolved in one of two ways: by major social unrest or through oppressive taxes.? The word seems to be getting around at the global aristocracy?s water cooler, and Georgescu writes that they ?find almost unanimous agreement on the nature of the problem and the urgent need for solutions.?

It is remarkable that Langone is partnered with Georgescu on this crusade for social justice. Langone served on the board of a leading populist philanthropy group called the New York Stock Exchange, and his deep concern for the downtrodden led him to chair that gang of do-gooders. He?s a longtime generous contributor to Republican presidential candidates who have been on the front lines of the battle to institute supply-side and neoliberal economics. ?[T]here?s nobody better than him,? said Rudy Giuliani last year about Langone?s prowess as a bundler for GOP politicians. And when he isn?t giving money and raising funds for the political friends of big business, Langone gives the invaluable gift of his careful insight, last year comparing progressives? attention to income inequality to Hitler?s political project in 1933.

The only thing Langone had right was the year: 1933. It was in that year that President Franklin Roosevelt took office at the height of the Great Depression, inequality peaked to record levels, and fears of revolt circulated among that era?s fat-cat elite. Capitalism, unreined during the 1920s, had hit another of its cyclical failures, this time its worst yet. The powerful feared revolution, and the New Deal constituted a sort of bargain made between capitalists and the people: A bit of socialism to save capitalism from itself.

That year, John Maynard Keynes issued an open letter to the newly inaugurated Roosevelt in the New York Times, whose two opening sentences of the more than 2,500-word manifesto defined the stakes and posed revolution as the price of failure of severely altering capitalism as it was practiced. Keynes was no radical. He urged the new president to work ?within the framework of the existing social system,? that is, to reform capitalism without allowing it to be abandoned or abolished.

It was later revealed that when in 1938 a year-long recession threatened the gains made against the Depression, as conservative Democratic legislators urged severe cuts in public works and farm aid, Roosevelt feared revolution. ?The president remarked that this would mean calling out the troops to preserve order,? wrote a cabinet member in his diary. ?It might even mean a revolution, or an attempted revolution.?

Georgescu and Langone?s mission perhaps finds its best Depression-era analog in Joseph Kennedy, the millionaire father of the eventual president John F. Kennedy, who said of the Depression that ?in those days I felt and said I would be willing to part with half of what I had if I could be sure of keeping, under law and order, the other half.? Kennedy, like many (but hardly all) of his elite colleagues, knew that capitalism had to be bridled if it was to survive. ?I knew that big drastic changes had to be made in our economic system,? he later told Joe McCarthy. ?I wanted him in the White House for my own security.?

Langone and Georgescu ? like Kennedy, Roosevelt and Keynes ? are urging another radical reformation of capitalism so that truly radical change doesn?t come. But they make serious mistakes in their judgment and prescription. They warn of ?punitive,? ?oppressive? levels of taxation ? an 80 percent upper marginal rate with a low upper-bracket threshold ? as a potentiality if their upper class doesn?t self-correct. But those levels of taxation wouldn?t be levied to punish or oppress; it would be to redistribute their collected wealth to the rest of us. Sharing isn?t being punished.

Second, they propose that the change has to come from the capitalists themselves, that some sort of agreement would be reached to willfully raise wages significantly in the absence of governmental mandate. This seems to ignore fundamental laws of competition. Even if some degree of consensus was reached, any dissenters would gain a fantastic advantage over their competitors in the form of profit levels far exceeding those of their rivals. It would be asking corporations to enter the ring with one arm tied behind their back and face off against unrestrained competitors.

They seem to know this and concede that ?the most obvious choice is our government? to guide and enforce the change. Every major gain against the greed that animates capitalism has been implemented by mandate: the minimum wage, the right to collectively bargain, the 40-hour work week, the weekend, and a host of other rules of the road that marked the post-war economic and civil peace.

?But the current Congress has been paralyzed,? they acknowledge.

And why is it paralyzed? Has President Obama not faced resistance to his efforts to restore a modicum of equality by politicians bought by the very class to whom Georgescu and Langone make their appeal? They might try not shoveling hundreds of millions of dollars into the coffers of ?pro-business? politicians who dutifully defy virtually any tax increase, regulation, and pro-union effort. Bernie Sanders forbids big-dollar donations of the sort sent to pro-business politicians of both parties, but they might consider, as I argued previously, working to elect him as a bulwark against the upheaval they fear. Sanders is merely proposing that we return to the bargain achieved in the 1930s and post-war years. I?m sure they?d scoff at the idea, but it?s not crazy. What?s crazy is to believe that capitalism can be saved by the capitalists themselves, like all lions agreeing to hunt without claws.

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/11/why_conservatives_billionaires_have_started_talking_like_bernie_sanders_we_are_creating_a_caste_system_from_which_its_almost_impossible_to_escape/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 12:04:27 pm

I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....

 
[/quote]

Like Germany? That has been building coal fired plants?

Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 12:34:03 pm

I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....

 

Like Germany? That has been building coal fired plants?

Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?
[/quote]

Germany's use of solar panels is fantastic....they're building them better all the time.........the coal plants being built are much more carbon friendly, and a band-aid at best...you know that too.......Germany will be even more proficient in the future ....it'll free them from using Putin's pipeline, a very good thing....the European communities are now beginning to follow Germany's lead in getting past oil dependance...... ;D...face it, the USA is lagging behind because of the constant misinformation being fed us by the news/politicians......we need this....

Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?

They will be renewed....you can bet on it...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 02:31:54 pm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2013/09/19/how-europes-economy-is-being-devastated-by-global-warming-orthodoxy/

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/24/europes-green-energy-industry-faces-collapse-as-subsidies-are-cut/

http://www.theenergycollective.com/willem-post/338781/high-renewable-energy-costs-damage-germanys-economy

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-myth-of-green-energy-jobs-the-european-experience/

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/02/05/germany-joins-california-in-destroying-jobs-with-renewables/

Down here I have Duke Energy. We pay the highest rates for power in the area and probably in the southeast. It goes up much more and I doubt I could afford it.
We get to pay for the Crystal River Nuke plant they screwed up and for the Nuke plant that will never be built.
In truth I have been thinking of going solar more and more. But not like most here would. I wan to be totally off the grid. Of course if I were to actually do that the Gestapo and SS would be knocking down my door.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 03:29:59 pm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2013/09/19/how-europes-economy-is-being-devastated-by-global-warming-orthodoxy/

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/24/europes-green-energy-industry-faces-collapse-as-subsidies-are-cut/

http://www.theenergycollective.com/willem-post/338781/high-renewable-energy-costs-damage-germanys-economy

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-myth-of-green-energy-jobs-the-european-experience/

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/02/05/germany-joins-california-in-destroying-jobs-with-renewables/

Down here I have Duke Energy. We pay the highest rates for power in the area and probably in the southeast. It goes up much more and I doubt I could afford it.
We get to pay for the Crystal River Nuke plant they screwed up and for the Nuke plant that will never be built.
In truth I have been thinking of going solar more and more. But not like most here would. I wan to be totally off the grid. Of course if I were to actually do that the Gestapo and SS would be knocking down my door.

..don't blame you...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany)

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/ (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/)

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-solar-energy-output-surpasses-nuclear-generation-in-july (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-solar-energy-output-surpasses-nuclear-generation-in-july)

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-energy-transition-explained-in-6-charts (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-energy-transition-explained-in-6-charts)

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/07/germany-solar-pv-report-must-read-energy-reporter/ (http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/07/germany-solar-pv-report-must-read-energy-reporter/)

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/15/germany-reaches-nearly-75-renewable-power-use-sunday/ (http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/15/germany-reaches-nearly-75-renewable-power-use-sunday/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 08:45:53 pm
From your first link:

Since the end of the boom period, national PV market has since declined significantly, due to the amendments in the German Renewable Energy Act (EEG) that reduced feed-in tariffs and set constraints on utility-scaled installations, limiting their size to no more than 10 MW.[22]

And from the second:

Subsidies aimed at stimulating the growth of renewables have driven up consumer energy prices by 12.5% in 2013.[54] To date, German consumers have absorbed the costs of the Energiewende, but the IEA says the debate over the social and economic impacts of the new approach has become more prominent as the share of renewable energy has continued to grow alongside rising electricity prices.

Think progress does neither. Left wingnuts.
About the same with greentech.
But of course alternative sources will at some point overtake nuclear. Almost any idiot can grasp that if you are tearing down nukes and buildingalternative at some point it must overtake it. Captain Obvious there


From liberal Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-05-30/germany-becomes-net-power-importer-from-france-after-atomic-halt
.France, which relies on nuclear plants for about three-quarters of its power needs, exported a net 509 gigawatt hours to Germany last month compared with net imports of 618 gigawatts during the same month last year, RTE said. In the most recent month, Germany joined Belgium, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the U.K. in relying on France for more power imports than exports, the data indicates.

http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/456961/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

And if you want to think that half of Germany's electricity comes from something green you will be disappointed. 46% of generation comes from coal. And just over half of coal powered electricity in Germany comes from burning lignite, perhaps the most polluting way to generate electricity on the planet.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 06:45:35 am
From your first link:

Since the end of the boom period, national PV market has since declined significantly, due to the amendments in the German Renewable Energy Act (EEG) that reduced feed-in tariffs and set constraints on utility-scaled installations, limiting their size to no more than 10 MW.[22]

And from the second:

Subsidies aimed at stimulating the growth of renewables have driven up consumer energy prices by 12.5% in 2013.[54] To date, German consumers have absorbed the costs of the Energiewende, but the IEA says the debate over the social and economic impacts of the new approach has become more prominent as the share of renewable energy has continued to grow alongside rising electricity prices.

Think progress does neither. Left wingnuts.
About the same with greentech.
But of course alternative sources will at some point overtake nuclear. Almost any idiot can grasp that if you are tearing down nukes and buildingalternative at some point it must overtake it. Captain Obvious there


From liberal Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-05-30/germany-becomes-net-power-importer-from-france-after-atomic-halt
.France, which relies on nuclear plants for about three-quarters of its power needs, exported a net 509 gigawatt hours to Germany last month compared with net imports of 618 gigawatts during the same month last year, RTE said. In the most recent month, Germany joined Belgium, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the U.K. in relying on France for more power imports than exports, the data indicates.

http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/456961/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

And if you want to think that half of Germany's electricity comes from something green you will be disappointed. 46% of generation comes from coal. And just over half of coal powered electricity in Germany comes from burning lignite, perhaps the most polluting way to generate electricity on the planet.

They are trying and succeeding in many areas...which we should be doing too..... you can't just keep 'cherry picking' their problems, and failures, to support not doing it at all. Our disruptive politicians blast everything that comes up....but never back it up with a better solution. The journey starts with the first step....not instant gratification.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 07:52:56 am
Jon, I do support doing it. I support it whole heartily. Like I said I am still pondering doing my own house. But it needs to come from the private sector not the government. I've figured it out though and the numbers don't really work if there are no government subsidies. By that I mean you the taxpayer paying to electrify my house. If you figure the actual cost of the panels, storage batteries, etc. it pays for itself about 2 years after it has reached its useful life. (Damn I almost put the apostrophe in that)

We already have evidence of the effectiveness of government helping out the solar companies. Solyndra ring a bell?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 08:06:05 am
Jon, I do support doing it. I support it whole heartily. Like I said I am still pondering doing my own house. But it needs to come from the private sector not the government. I've figured it out though and the numbers don't really work if there are no government subsidies. By that I mean you the taxpayer paying to electrify my house. If you figure the actual cost of the panels, storage batteries, etc. it pays for itself about 2 years after it has reached its useful life. (Damn I almost put the apostrophe in that)

We already have evidence of the effectiveness of government helping out the solar companies. Solyndra ring a bell?


I believe they saw it as a chance to jump start the program...it failed miserably with Solyndra too....win some, lose some...private industry wasn't getting into it as quickly as expected....and yes, it needs to be the private sector getting more involved.....

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 10:22:22 am
Private industry will get involved when it's feasible and profitable. There are some companies out there that you don't hear much about that do see the value in the future. They are pouring money into the R&D.
One problem is if you do go off grid the Gestapo and SS will hunt you down.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/

http://offgridsurvival.com/livingoffthegridcrime/comment-page-2/


As for win some lose some our CIC has lost 36 out of 36. And that doesn't take into account the money we lost with GM and Tesla.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 11:24:39 am
From your link....http://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/

Living off the grid is illegal in Cape Coral, Florida, according to a court ruling Thursday.

Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin ruled that the city?s codes allow Robin Speronis to live without utility power but she is still required to hook her home to the city?s water system. Her alternative source of power must be approved by the city, Eskin said.

As previously reported in Off The Grid News, Speronis has been fighting the city of Cape Coral since November when a code enforcement officer tried to evict her from her home for living without utilities. The city contends that Speronis violated the International Property Maintenance Code by relying on rain water instead of the city water system and solar panels instead of the electric grid.

?It was a mental fistfight,? Speronis? attorney Todd Allen said of Eskin?s review of his clients? case. ?There?s an inherent conflict in the code.?

Part of the conflict: She must hook up to the water system, although officials acknowledge she does not have to use it.

...

So it is doable but city codes haven't caught up with technology that's all. It will take time for all the advances to settle in and be accepted, for sure. I believe living rural tho...has it advantages.
If we'd had solar a few years back, where we lived, we could have used our well. Then we'd been living the good life....LOL

I'm wondering if creative elec panel wiring ,to say, only bedrooms that use very little energy might work....then using solar for the expensive appliance areas like the kitchen, laundry room, living room, etc to reduce costs....and be in compliance.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 am
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 12:19:35 pm
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.

Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 12, 2015, 12:36:53 pm
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.

Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....

I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 12:40:12 pm
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.

Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....

I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???

That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 12, 2015, 12:42:15 pm
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.

Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....

I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???

That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.

My gas and water heater are included in that price. The gas and electric are one.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 13, 2015, 11:09:33 am
Here is a hilarious Japanese animation with caracturized politicians at the Republican debate:

http://us.tomonews.net/trump-takes-first-gop-debate-as-nothing-sticks-to-teflon-don-260671801819136?utm_source=Facebook+NMAtv&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=080715+Trump+wins+GOP (http://us.tomonews.net/trump-takes-first-gop-debate-as-nothing-sticks-to-teflon-don-260671801819136?utm_source=Facebook+NMAtv&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=080715+Trump+wins+GOP)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 13, 2015, 11:42:51 am
That was good....LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 13, 2015, 02:05:37 pm
Why we don't get involved.....  He is speaking of Canada, but it is applicable here as well.


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 13, 2015, 07:25:39 pm
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 14, 2015, 07:28:50 am

A hell of a lot. I was there to witness them.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on August 14, 2015, 05:09:07 pm
http://time.com/money/3941620/donald-trump-pinatas/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 14, 2015, 05:25:11 pm
LOL....I forgot about those .........thanks, Liz... 8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 17, 2015, 06:58:58 am
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.

Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....

I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???

That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.

The Future of Energy

In the opening moments of the inspiring new documentary titled The Future of Energy, we're provided a guided tour through Greensburg, Kansas, a seemingly typical Midwestern town with a population of just under a thousand. In 2007, a fierce tornado struck the town and annihilated the vast majority of its buildings and infrastructure. Undaunted, the community decided to rebuild by harnessing the same power that was once the cause of its destruction: wind. Today, Greensburg is entirely operated on 100% renewable wind energy. Their shining example sets the stage for the remainder of the film, which urges the necessity for similar progressive actions in every city across the globe.

There are few issues more pressing in our modern society than that of energy. Currently, the majority of the world's energy is produced through the burning of fossil fuels, a process which has proven detrimental to the health and safety of our planet and all of its inhabitants. In addition to the ramifications related to climate change, our unsustainable energy habits place great burdens upon the world's economies, which contribute to the financial instability of families throughout the world.

The answer, according to the myriad of experts represented in the film, is the powerful clean energy trio of wind, water and solar. According to researchers, renewable energies could power the entire globe by the year 2050. The technologies are right at our fingertips. All we seem to lack is the social and political willpower to make widespread renewable energies our reality.

Energy independence is only possible when communities break away from a system which continues to rely upon outdated and pollution-inducing technologies. The Future of Energy take us on a journey to discover how this has been made possible in regions throughout the United States, as citizens have joined together to outfit their homes and businesses with solar panels and a multitude of additional clean energy conductors. With infectious enthusiasm, The Future of Energy shines a spotlight on the many everyday figures that stand at the forefront of the clean energy revolution, and shows us that the capacity for positive change in the world begins with the individual.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/future-energy/ (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/future-energy/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 11:24:06 am
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/2132b055209177d036b1e92a6c161d92/tumblr_nt66hstxL41rkallao1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 01:25:24 pm
This is a good read...................thoughts? anyone??

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-stopped-being-funny-20150821 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-stopped-being-funny-20150821)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 01:46:28 pm
Looking at where this comes from it's just liberal BS. Pretty much what got us into this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 02:00:16 pm
Looking at where this comes from it's just liberal BS. Pretty much what got us into this mess in the first place.

Nothing to do with being liberal............and worth your time, I'm sure.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:19:30 pm
I read the article Jon before I formed an opinion. Unfortunately RS kept to its roots.


Quote
Trump is probably too dumb to realize it, or maybe he isn't, but he doesn't need to win anything to become the most dangerous person in America. He can do plenty of damage just by encouraging people to be as uninhibited in their stupidity as he is.

Remarks such as this prove it. So pretty much if you go along with Trump you're stupid. Like we've done so great lately?

While I doubt I would vote for Trump in a primary he is bringing to the forefront the things that need to be said. If he did win the primary of course I would vote for him. What we need in the Oval Office is in fact a person that truly loves this country, realizes that we are an exceptional country, and is a businessman to run the business we call "The US of A".
If you truly get down to brass tacks what does the president (well every POTUS sans 44) really do? They make deals. Same as a business. Deals that benefit both parties most of the time but if it comes to it a deal that only benefits your business. We need someone that will in fact look out for us. Been a while like over 6 years since we have seen that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 02:24:16 pm
I read the article Jon before I formed an opinion. Unfortunately RS kept to its roots.


Quote
Trump is probably too dumb to realize it, or maybe he isn't, but he doesn't need to win anything to become the most dangerous person in America. He can do plenty of damage just by encouraging people to be as uninhibited in their stupidity as he is.

Remarks such as this prove it. So pretty much if you go along with Trump you're stupid. Like we've done so great lately?

While I doubt I would vote for Trump in a primary he is bringing to the forefront the things that need to be said. If he did win the primary of course I would vote for him. What we need in the Oval Office is in fact a person that truly loves this country, realizes that we are an exceptional country, and is a businessman to run the business we call "The US of A".
If you truly get down to brass tacks what does the president (well every POTUS sans 44) really do? They make deals. Same as a business. Deals that benefit both parties most of the time but if it comes to it a deal that only benefits your business. We need someone that will in fact look out for us. Been a while like over 6 years since we have seen that.

I would have thought that you'd come away with more than that......like him, or not....many of his remarks are inflammatory, and unsettling. Especially in the light of recent violence attributed to one of them. ....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:27:05 pm
Which one Jon?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 02:32:51 pm
Which one Jon?

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/20/a-beating-in-boston-said-to-be-inspired-by-donald-trumps-immigrant-comments/?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/20/a-beating-in-boston-said-to-be-inspired-by-donald-trumps-immigrant-comments/?_r=0)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:47:40 pm
So then Hussein is responsible for Katie's death since he allows the illegals in without repercussion and allows sanctuary cities.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 02:49:46 pm
So then Hussein is responsible for Katie's death since he allows the illegals in without repercussion and allows sanctuary cities.

I should have known your response......'Obama bad'...'bad Obama'...'thanks Obama'....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:59:25 pm
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.

How nice of you to leave Congress out of it all......I figured that you were a little more open minded than just being in lock step with Fox entertainment, my bad.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 03:10:19 pm
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.  I also did the research as to why we are in the situation we are vis-a-vis the economy and where it started. I have seen very few who have done any research and just go on soundbites from lame stream media.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 03:25:29 pm
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.  I also did the research as to why we are in the situation we are vis-a-vis the economy and where it started. I have seen very few who have done any research and just go on soundbites from lame stream media.

(http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2015/04/ObamasNumbersApril2.png)

Summary

Highlights from our latest update of the statistical record of President Obama?s time in office:

    Under Obama, the economy has added 7.2 million jobs, and the unemployment rate is now lower than the historical median.
    The number of job openings is up to its highest point in 14 years, and the number of long-term jobless has now dropped below where it was when Obama took office.
    Real weekly earnings are up 3 percent. But the number of persons receiving food stamps remains stubbornly high.
    The administration says 16 million have gained health insurance as a result of the Affordable Care Act. But the National Center for Health Statistics estimates that 37 million others still lacked coverage last year.
    The US increased its domestic crude oil production last year by more than it has in over 100 years. The U.S. now relies less on imported oil than it has since the Nixon administration.
    The clock has run out on Obama?s promise to double U.S. exports in 5 years. They went up only 39 percent.

...more...

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 22, 2015, 03:50:57 pm
Quote
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.

You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.

More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!


I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.

Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 22, 2015, 06:45:48 pm
Trump's biggest problem is that both the Republicans & the Democrats are fearful that he is gaining traction.  The sad part is, he is gain traction simply because of their past incompetence.

I don't agree with much of what he says, but I could say the same for any of the other candidates.  Rather than blowing smoke, what you see is what you get with Donald, and I'm sure lots of folks find that a refreshing change.....

It's all a mute point anyway.  The Republican party will never give Donald the nomination.  He's not a party following lackey.  Ask John McCain how easy it is to get the nomination when you rock the boat and talk about reform.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 07:04:22 pm
Biden/Warren..... 8)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/22/politics/joe-biden-washington-meetings/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/22/politics/joe-biden-washington-meetings/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 08:35:31 pm
Jon, factcheck, like politifact are left of center. Politifact is in fact owned by The St. Pete Times aka Pravda West here.

Since you like liberal "facts" here's one by the CEO of Gallup and he is a die hard liberal

http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/180431/american-entrepreneurship-dead-alive.aspx
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 08:39:32 pm
Quote
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.

You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.

More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!


I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.

Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!

The problem is if it's not from the main stream media liberals don't believe it. I could tell you you spelled seeking incorrectly but if a liberal says it's right you will believe it. I can't fight that.
My last post refuting Jon's chart about business start ups is by a liberal. Do you believe him?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 08:45:02 pm
facts or semantics??....what he said versus what he said......sorry that's not working as an argument....getting back to the selective finger pointing, how about a chart on Congress too......a favorable review doesn't exist, does it?....but then that's Obama's fault too...right?....geez Louise.....no 'strawman' arguments, ok?.... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 08:55:02 pm
Quote
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.

You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.

More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!


I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.

Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!
How do we give oil companies subsidies? (Do you know what a subsidy is? (Editorial "you" is meant here))

How much of our total tax revenue is paid for by the rich? Do you know?

The IRS took in record amounts in taxes 2014. Where did the money go?

Do you know how much money the Koch Bros have given?

Quote
The Koch family foundations are a related group of non-profit organizations that began with the establishment of the Fred and Mary Koch Foundation in 1953, and now includes the Charles Koch Foundation, the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation and the Koch Cultural Trust. The organizations collectively have a stated goal of "advancing liberty and freedom" through the support of various causes which "further social progress and sustainable prosperity."[11] In addition to the direct action of the non-profits, the groups have also contributed financially to other philanthropic organizations in the fields of research, public well-being, arts, and education, including contributions to scholarship programs, university support, and loan assistance through organizations like the United Negro College Fund.[12]
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 22, 2015, 08:57:11 pm

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 09:05:18 pm
facts or semantics??....what he said versus what he said......sorry that's not working as an argument....getting back to the selective finger pointing, how about a chart on Congress too......a favorable review doesn't exist, does it?....but then that's Obama's fault too...right?....geez Louise.....no 'strawman' arguments, ok?.... w!w

Jon with few exceptions the "Republicans" in congress are an abysmal failure to Conservative values. I hate that here I have to register as a "Republican" The ones calling themselves republicans are a damn disgrace and are no better than the liberals anymore.

Any way you want to look at it whether dumbass liberal or turd republican they are pretty much bought. We the people don't stand a chance anymore.

If I haven't stated my beliefs before let me state them now, as a Fiscal Conservative in no particular order.
1. We take care of our veterans
2. We keep the strongest army in the world.
3. We take care of our elderly.
4. We take care of those truly disabled.
5. Eliminate welfare
6. Shrink the government drastically.
7. Make it conducive for business to survive, and thrive here.
8. Be excellent stewards of taxpayer moneys.
9. We respect our allies and make our enemies fear us again.
10. Secure our borders.
11. Adhere to the US Constitution.

There are more but these are the basics.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 09:12:05 pm
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1957

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/10/new-mckinsey-survey-74-of-obamacare-sign-ups-were-previously-insured/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 09:36:20 pm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/02/low-labour-force-participation-is-because-long-term-unemployment-has-risen/

If only we can shrink the labor force another 50 million we can get the UE rate down to 3%

As for jobs created they do not separate full time from part time. So getting rid of a full time position of 40 hours and hiring 4 people at 10 hours yields a net increase of three jobs. What I want to start seeing is paid man hours not positions filled.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 22, 2015, 09:53:14 pm
Quote
If I haven't stated my beliefs before let me state them now, as a Fiscal Conservative in no particular order.
1. We take care of our veterans
2. We keep the strongest army in the world.
3. We take care of our elderly.
4. We take care of those truly disabled.
5. Eliminate welfare
6. Shrink the government drastically.
7. Make it conducive for business to survive, and thrive here.
8. Be excellent stewards of taxpayer moneys.
9. We respect our allies and make our enemies fear us again.
10. Secure our borders.
11. Adhere to the US Constitution.

These have nothing to do with fiscal policy:
1
2
3
4
5
7
9
10
11

Since you
Quote
look at information and come to my own conclusions
, please explain how you came up with that list and how it relates to fiscal policy.

Quote
I could tell you you spelled seeking incorrectly but if a liberal says it's right you will believe it.

You just recently posted something about misspelling something yourself and how that's not problem, but if someone else does?????
Nice consistency!


You are arrogant and close minded on subjects like politics.
All you do is to call any people, groups, or organizations that you disagree with names to dismiss their arguments rather than clearly layng out your thoughts (rather than your spewing your emotions), rarely doing any real comparing of specific commonly accepted facts.
There is just no reason to try to discuss things with you.

You are incapable of changing your mind and your weak arguments are unlikely to convince anyone.


Another thing you seem to do a lot is go off on negatives about this or that using resulting in whoever it is that you are pissed off about now is in some way a bad person so nothing they say is acceptable.
This can result in the elimination of everything (since you are so consistently negative), resulting in no path forward. Great for future planning!

Personally, I like to pick out what I perceive as good things from whatever source they may arise from, combine them together in some way that might make sense, and try to check out how that might work out.
This by the way is the source of Obamacare (which could be better, but is better than the currently politically feasible alternatives).

What name(s) are you going to call me now?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 10:08:28 pm
Bill, I don't intend to call you anything except a friend. This thread is politics. I'd like to think we have more in common than this argument. Like fish. Maybe fishing too.

I also think we can agree neither one of us would ever vote for Jeb.

I can pretty much say that from the little I know of the folks here (face it except for those that have personally met we really don't know each other at all) if anyone here ever needed something I could help with I surely would. I tend to think though that I am no different than anyone else here.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 06:48:18 am
We sure agree on Jeb....and i can agree, or relate, to many things on your list too. There are many cases where the party lines are blurred, and that's why so many folks have problems identifying with one or the other most times. The exception might be race relations, with immigration included in there, as well as our President.






Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 06:49:01 am
Discussing politics breeds animosities like rabbits. Going back to the Civil War it even split families. This thread was made separate to enable discussion in a more confined area, rather than sprinkled throughout the  boards. My initial hope was to have a place for folks to vent on the subject in lively discussion, and in jest at the absurdities in the political arena........and not to make it personal....so rant..rave..criticize..laugh..chuckle...then leave it here and move on back to the fish we all love and enjoy....remembering that the world would be a boring place if we were all made from the same mold.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: PaulineMi on August 23, 2015, 07:01:31 am
Discussing politics breeds animosities like rabbits. Going back to the Civil War it even split families. This thread was made separate to enable discussion in a more confined area, rather than sprinkled throughout the  boards. My initial hope was to have a place for folks to vent on the subject in lively discussion, and in jest at the absurdities in the political arena........and not to make it personal....so rant..rave..criticize..laugh..chuckle...then leave it here and move on back to the fish we all love and enjoy....remembering that the world would be a boring place if we were all made from the same mold.

 |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 23, 2015, 07:26:07 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11891172_740509572744367_1110929238145476816_n.jpg?oh=12fb58bbc5d5c67b4a3336f4d7b937dc&oe=566F7019)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 08:29:08 am
Pretty much Dennis.....but then again remember it's the idiots that get the 'news' coverage and exposure whether a candidate, or a supporter.....the sane folks are still around.....locked and loaded and with dry ammo... |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on August 23, 2015, 10:09:44 am
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.

And don't forget he's a UNDER COVER MUSLIM,one of his parents was black,  and he's likely the antichrist too.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 10:48:02 am
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.

And don't forget he's a UNDER COVER MUSLIM,one of his parents was black,  and he's likely the antichrist too.

...LOL.....sad that our President does not get any respect anymore.....very sad....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 23, 2015, 05:58:14 pm
Quote
Bill, I don't intend to call you anything except a friend. This thread is politics. I'd like to think we have more in common than this argument. Like fish. Maybe fishing too.

I also think we can agree neither one of us would ever vote for Jeb.

I can pretty much say that from the little I know of the folks here (face it except for those that have personally met we really don't know each other at all) if anyone here ever needed something I could help with I surely would. I tend to think though that I am no different than anyone else here.

G:
In many ways I think you are mostly likely an OK guy.
However, when anything touches upon your political and religious beliefs, you display intolerance and close mindedness.
On those subjects, your have a strong tendency to be completely dismissive of other views and facts based upon what seem to me to be surrilious grounds (making or spreading scandalous claims about someone with the intention of damaging their reputation), rather than any rational discussion of pros and cons of a particular idea.

To me, this behavior seems troll-like. Calling names, disparaging whole groups of people (for reasons you don't make clear- just hate?). And generally trashing ongoing discussions.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 07:34:50 pm
...well, so much for letting it go, I guess...???

Meanwhile, how about Biden....I like Joe...he calls em like he sees them, even with an occasional foot in the mouth by doing so.... |^|

He's met with Elizabeth Warren now.....could they be a viable team??....I think so....unless Hillary can plug the dike ..??
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on August 23, 2015, 08:12:52 pm
...well, so much for letting it go, I guess...???

Meanwhile, how about Biden....I like Joe...he calls em like he sees them, even with an occasional foot in the mouth by doing so.... |^|

He's met with Elizabeth Warren now.....could they be a viable team??....I think so....unless Hillary can plug the dike ..??

I like Joe too. Foot in mouth is not hurting Trump so far. ::)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 08:21:54 pm
Politics.....


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Albert_Maignan_-_La_muse_verte.jpg)


Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 23, 2015, 10:28:26 pm
Other than  she keeps saying she is not interested in running for president, I think Elisabeth Warren would be the best candidate.
Better as a veep than nothing though.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 24, 2015, 06:09:56 am
Other than  she keeps saying she is not interested in running for president, I think Elisabeth Warren would be the best candidate.
Better as a veep than nothing though.

Who knows ??...he might have been looking for just her backing??
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 24, 2015, 10:55:12 am
We sure agree on Jeb....and i can agree, or relate, to many things on your list too. There are many cases where the party lines are blurred, and that's why so many folks have problems identifying with one or the other most times. The exception might be race relations, with immigration included in there, as well as our President.

By today's definition of the parties JFK would be a  republican. He understood how lowering taxes increased government revenue.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 24, 2015, 11:24:28 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11933493_1597763543821087_1846569990221812894_n.jpg?oh=29cc53d712a1d3e4f0ad18f33ac59d05&oe=567F3E2A)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 24, 2015, 11:57:02 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11933493_1597763543821087_1846569990221812894_n.jpg?oh=29cc53d712a1d3e4f0ad18f33ac59d05&oe=567F3E2A)

Dennis

"we're".....LOL....reminds me of the 'morans' sign.....LOL....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 24, 2015, 02:42:08 pm
Yet another political campaign:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg)

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg)

(Could not get the picture to post w/o using photobucket)??
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 06:36:03 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/danzcolorplus6450.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 02:45:51 pm
(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UT2KBp-0sl4%2FUpITJfaTWEI%2FAAAAAAAAQ0Y%2F9OZcVl0CqyE%2Fs1600%2Fcognitivedissonance20.jpg&sp=e099835b80919968ba0a58728ef541af)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 03:19:25 pm
Only problem Jon is that the presidency has had as many democrats as republicans since 1961.
The only real variance is that both houses have been controlled by the democrats for the longest period of time.
From 1955 until 1981 democrats controlled both houses.
1981 they still held the house but lost the senate for 3 terms.
They got both back in 87 but lost both in 96 (and democrats think we had a good economy so I guess you can thank your favorite democrat Newt)
We did pretty well until 9-11. But alas we had never experienced such a happening on US soil.
Still the economy did come back. And so did the democrats taking over both houses in 07.
And in 2008 they had full control of both houses.

So for the most of the time it's we've been controlled by democrats but it's all the republican's fault.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 pm
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 05:31:57 pm
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..

That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 06:46:52 pm
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..

That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......

Bingo. Had to do with your head up the elephant's ass nothing more.

As I was typing it Jon I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt what you would say.  I was right. As usual.

Couldn't be the party that was in power the longest. That would be impossible.  (that is sarcasm)

So if we have a republican president and a democrat house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and republican house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and a veto proof house in favor of the democrats and the poo poo hits the fan it is because of the republicans.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 07:04:45 pm
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..

That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).

If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.

I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......

Bingo. Had to do with your head up the elephant's ass nothing more.

As I was typing it Jon I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt what you would say.  I was right. As usual.

Couldn't be the party that was in power the longest. That would be impossible.  (that is sarcasm)

So if we have a republican president and a democrat house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and republican house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and a veto proof house in favor of the democrats and the poo poo hits the fan it is because of the republicans.

...and I figured that too would be your retort....however, the Republicans, now controlling the House, now have an all time low approval rating......and it's because they are obstructionists.....they have not only blocked everything to come before them ( and have even wasted time by calling for the 75 millionth time a vote to repeal the ACA, again and again)....but have not presented a legit plan for rebuilding infrastructure here at home, along with many other things that they've promised to do......yes, Dem's are involved too....but the Repub's ran on tickets for improving things...and we get squat...LOL...even today, cry baby Boehner called a Cruz a jackass....LOL.....now that's leadership, huh?.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 07:10:36 pm
Trust me none of us are happy with the "republicans" like Jackass Boehner, McCain, McConnell, etc. They are no better than Reid or Pelosi.
We want them to stop the Obama Express before it's too late. Yet all they do is punch their tickets. Disgusting.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 28, 2015, 07:25:36 pm
So Republicans and jackasses, but the are not a problem because of Democrats????????

I am confused about the point here.


Some of us aren't are happy with some politicians.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 07:45:04 pm
The irony of it all is that the whole Congress are useless jackasses, but we just keep electing them over and over, year after year...but expect different results each time....shame on us...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on August 28, 2015, 08:32:45 pm
I'm pretty happy with my representative (DeFazio) and senators (Wyden and Merkley).
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 08:40:04 pm
The irony of it all is that the whole Congress are useless jackasses, but we just keep electing them over and over, year after year...but expect different results each time....shame on us...

About sums it up and we pretty much agree. I will take exception with the last part though.

I don't think it's us as voters it's more that good people don't want to get torn apart and shredded don't run.  And the few good ones that do get elected manage to get caught up in the money and it becomes a drug.
There are a still a few decent ones in office though. On both sides of the aisle.

What ever you think of Trump at least he's not a politician. And he's got his own money so it would be tough to buy him. And he is not afraid to speak his mind.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 08:53:01 pm
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 29, 2015, 09:36:39 am
Ya gotta love good old Ronnie Regan.  So many great quotes.....  "People keep looking to government for the answer, and governemts the problem"

That sums it up perfectly.  If you're looking for any of these bozos to save us, you are going to be sadly disappointed.  We are still a governemnt by the people, the people just don't do their part.  We have to fix it.  They are not going to.   2c2

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 29, 2015, 10:13:09 am
Ya gotta love good old Ronnie Regan.  So many great quotes.....  "People keep looking to government for the answer, and governemts the problem"

That sums it up perfectly.  If you're looking for any of these bozos to save us, you are going to be sadly disappointed.  We are still a governemnt by the people, the people just don't do their part.  We have to fix it.  They are not going to.   2c2

Dennis

Yup, that's pretty much it Dennis.... |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 29, 2015, 10:25:41 am
Just ran across this.....someone asked Trump for his favorite Bible quote..
.............

The #TrumpBible hashtag is still going strong

Earlier this week, Donald Trump awkwardly dodged a series of questions about the bible during an interview on Bloomberg?s ?With All Due Respect.? Most notably, he refused to name his favorite bible verse ? not even one ? because that was ?too personal.? (Also, when asked if he was ?an Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy,? he responded, ?Uh, probably equal.?)

Trump?s elusive answers prompted people to begin writing fake bible verses in ?Trump Speak,? and thus, the #TrumpBible hashtag was born. Now, a few days later, it?s still going strong.

Here are some of the earlier contributions:



http://time.com/4015860/donald-trump-bible-twitter-hashtag/ (http://time.com/4015860/donald-trump-bible-twitter-hashtag/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on August 29, 2015, 10:58:13 am
(http://www.thelolshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120801-162700.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on August 30, 2015, 02:24:06 am
"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." - Alice Walker

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 01, 2015, 12:43:18 pm
(https://s3-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fmedia.cagle.com%2F144%2F2015%2F07%2F21%2F166935_600.jpg&sp=843bad0628004d43e1012c1d501035d7)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 04, 2015, 12:38:26 pm
Paul Harvey "The Policeman"

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 05, 2015, 06:26:29 pm
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/2c1e59b43899bd6a545dc48d98814391/tumblr_no8owmC3Cx1qf7lkgo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 05, 2015, 07:19:38 pm
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/ButYeah/Political%20Crap/bc35cd2422f2b08ac16bb6596e20edee_zpsgncfcgsk.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 06, 2015, 06:55:20 pm
oh good grief....it IS him.....LOL

(http://i.imgur.com/vEZsTxj.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 08, 2015, 12:30:06 am
oh good grief....it IS him.....LOL

(http://i.imgur.com/vEZsTxj.jpg)

LOL
Every time i see her i can't stop thinking about Annie from the Misery movie.
Don't know if it's the pilgrim  clothing or what.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 08, 2015, 12:01:17 pm
WICHITA (The Borowitz Report)?Saying that ?things just didn?t work out,? the billionaire Koch brothers have decided to put Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker up for sale.

The Kochs, who earlier had purchased Gov. Walker with great fanfare, announced their plan to sell the politician in a terse statement from Koch Industries headquarters in Wichita.

?Scott Walker is a fine individual, and we wish him well,? the Kochs? statement read. ?We are confident that he will be a good fit for some other billionaire industrialists.?

Republican insiders, however, called the Kochs? plan to sell Walker highly optimistic, and noted that the market for the Wisconsin Governor was, at this point, virtually nonexistent.

The Kochs, who reportedly had been frustrated by Walker?s poor performance in the polls, finally decided to sell the Wisconsinite after last weekend?s odd pronouncement, in which he seemed to support a border wall with Canada.

According to a Koch associate, ?Ignorance has always been a part of Scott?s appeal, but that Canada thing was just too much.?

After their plan to sell him was announced, the Kochs immediately pulled Walker off the campaign trail for fear that he might say something that would further reduce his dwindling market value.

In Iowa, an aide to Walker said that the Governor was ?still processing? the news that he had been put up for sale. ?It takes a while for Scott to understand things,? the aide said.

 |^| Borowitz is great......LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 09, 2015, 11:40:32 am
He's just a 'wild' and 'crazy' guy.....LOL

(http://img.izismile.com/img/img8/20150908/1000/daily_gifdump_906_16.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 09, 2015, 11:59:31 am
Is that a mexican hat dance he's doing.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 09, 2015, 12:01:39 pm
Is that a mexican hat dance he's doing.


...who knows ??..... huh
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 09, 2015, 01:09:28 pm
If William Shattner danced, it might look like that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 09, 2015, 01:45:07 pm
If William Shattner danced, it might look like that.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 09, 2015, 04:21:12 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/fRo8Tbz.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 09, 2015, 04:22:05 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/TVPxdpX.jpg?1)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 07:32:31 am
(http://i.imgur.com/MwFbwaD.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on September 11, 2015, 07:40:08 am
lol. Great morning pick me up. |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 11, 2015, 09:27:39 am
Now that's funny.  When the election is over, all the other horse's asses involved should buy Donald a beer for diverting the attention from them  LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 09:56:30 am
I funniest thing is how they all talk shit about each other until a candidate is finally chosen to represent their party,then they tell you how great he is , and have their full support.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 11, 2015, 11:15:54 am
Why should they change, it's been working well for them.....  we just keep putting them in office. 

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 12:07:52 pm
The two party system is a joke,and anything else would likely be a bigger one.
 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 01:09:52 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/EPiQ3YZ.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:36:59 pm
 :)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:36:07 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.

Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.


Carry on.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 02:40:28 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.

Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.


Carry on.

They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:54:12 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.

Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.


Carry on.

They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL

Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 02:58:47 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.

Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.


Carry on.

They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL

Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.

LOL...it does seem like quite a few were simply born in office, they've been there so dang long.....it sure makes term limits attractive, eh?  |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 03:01:40 pm
Sure does Jon. Many states are trying for an Article 5 but really does anyone see that actually happening. Face it. Either side they are pretty much bought. Some of the Tea Party people aren't. Yet. But they too will succumb to the green.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:04:52 pm
Quote
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM

    ;D

Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|


Quote
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.

So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 03:09:37 pm
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.

Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.


Carry on.

They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL

Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.

I wouldn't even want Trump hauled off and shot,well maybe. ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 03:12:36 pm
Quote
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM

    ;D

Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|


Quote
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.

So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!

It is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up. And while I am very Second Amendment I personally don't own firearms. Mostly because I refuse to get one without taking the time to go and get educated about them first. And don't take that as my house is not protected. It fully is. Just not with a firearm.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 03:15:23 pm
Quote
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM

    ;D

Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|


Quote
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.

So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!

Such venom is unnecessary..............and now you see why I don't like having a politics thread..........it gets really personal quickly....

sad, I'd thought we were better than that.......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:19:47 pm
Quote
It is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up.

Words and expressions can have consequences.
Show some responsibility for your mouth (or fingers in this case) instead of blathering on mindlessly.
Try being thoughtful and you might not have to try to recover from your lame statements.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 03:23:17 pm
Quote
It is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up.

Words and expressions can have consequences.
Show some responsibility for your mouth (or fingers in this case) instead of blathering on mindlessly.
Try being thoughtful and you might not have to try to recover from your lame statements.

I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.

And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.

Quote
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM

     ;D

Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:47:06 pm
Quote
I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.

And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.

You are acting passive-aggressive. Alternating between nice and nasty. Trying to have it both ways, with responsibility for nothing.

Quote
I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did.
Comparing people to Nazis?

Although you may not have attacked anyone here, you are way overboard in your personal attacks on others who are not here and not able to defend themselves.
Furthermore, these attacks are complete bullshit rather than suggesting anything that has the slightest chance of providing a fruitful outcome.

Its easy to be all tear down. It is more difficult (perhaps too difficult) to be productive.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 03:51:52 pm
(http://www.thelolshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120801-162700.jpg)

Am I the only one that noticed the misspelling in the meme?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 04:00:54 pm
Quote
I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.

And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.

You are acting passive-aggressive. Alternating between nice and nasty. Trying to have it both ways, with responsibility for nothing.

Quote
I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did.
Comparing people to Nazis?

Although you may not have attacked anyone here, you are way overboard in your personal attacks on others who are not here and not able to defend themselves.
Furthermore, these attacks are complete bullshit rather than suggesting anything that has the slightest chance of providing a fruitful outcome.

Its easy to be all tear down. It is more difficult (perhaps too difficult) to be productive.
This is right. But you did.

If I posted the memes like others do about republicans you would have no comment. How do I know? Because you have not commented on any of those Bill. Just the ones I post. Sorry Bill. I see all the attacks on the Reps. yet you say nothing. Not a word.

BTW one was a Nazi. One was a Marxist.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 11, 2015, 07:00:34 pm
I'm not here to defend Republicans. You seem to be doing a fine job of it.
Nor am I comparing them to Nazis and Commies.

I am more concerned about letting cowardly slurs against people, not otherwise being defended, go unremarked.
Try Making Sense instead.

By the way, there are many things you or others post which I don't agree with, but which I feel no particular need to respond to.
Most of these, to me, are just disagreements within the bounds of normal discourse.

Some of your posts just seem to raise to that special level.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 07:41:07 pm
I believe the pics are posted more in the spirit of humor for both parties foibles......the jokes and comments pretty much the same....so it's probably best if you view it all with a grain of salt....it's not serious stuff.....get it??

The internet is full of this garbage....pics, comments, jokes, etc....and it'll keep on being popped in here to be laughed at too...to argue any of these, or to get personal, or to read them as an attack is simply wrong.......chill gang....

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 10:17:27 pm
I'm not here to defend Republicans. You seem to be doing a fine job of it.


Bill, you missed the point. I'm not defending most of the Republicans either.

Last election the voters pretty much gave the Republican party a mandate to stop Hussein from continuing to destroy the US. What most, like Boehner, McConnell, Graham, McCain et al are doing pretty much disgusts any Conservative. Instead of standing up and doing what they were elected to do instead they act like Hussein Lite.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 11:18:58 pm
HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 11:23:11 pm
HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.

How so Greg? State your case. Might as well keep it to W since HW was only there for four years. Of course we did have Bill for eight. But fortunately his spending spree was curtailed by Newt and the Contract.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 12, 2015, 12:37:46 am
Like this.

 http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/12/bush200712
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 12, 2015, 12:46:13 am
And this.

 http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 am
I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.

We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..

Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..

We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.

How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

I still love my country.   

 
 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 05:31:57 am
A very interesting read...
====================

Thomas L. Friedman | New York Times

Let?s not mess with pluralism

NORMALLY, WHen your main geopolitical rivals are shooting themselves in both feet, the military manual says step back and enjoy the show. But I take little comfort in watching China burning money and Russia burning food, because in today?s interdependent world we?re all affected.

I also find no joy in it because we Americans, too, have started burning our most important source of competitive advantage ? our pluralism. One of our two political parties has gone nuts and started following a pied piper of intolerance, named Donald Trump.

First, we watched China?s leadership burn money ? trying to prop up a ridiculously overvalued stock market by buying falling stocks with government savings, and then seeing that market continue to collapse because the very fact that the government was intervening suggested no one knew what these stocks were worth.

The Wall Street Journal reported on July 30 that the ?state-owned China Securities Finance Corp. has been spending up to 180 billion yuan a day ($29 billion) to try to stabilize stocks.? Since the Shanghai exchange has fallen sharply since then, the amount of money China burned trying to prop up already unrealistic valuations must be staggering.

The economic management team in Beijing has seriously lost its way. But leaders do funky things when the ruling party?s bargain with its people is ?we get to rule and you get to get rich.? Collapsing markets can quickly lead to collapsing legitimacy.

Ask the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He burned the eastern quarter of Ukraine to distract the Russian middle class from his economic mismanagement and illegitimacy.

Putin decided that building his own Silicon Valley ? the Skolkovo Innovation Center outside of Moscow ? was too hard. So to build his legitimacy he chose nationalism and seized Crimea instead. Putin prefers to manufacture chips on his shoulder than microchips. When the Crimea annexation nationalist sugar high wore off, Putin started burning food imported from countries sanctioning Russia for seizing Crimea from Ukraine.

As The New York Times reported on Aug. 6, ?Following an order by President Vladimir Putin, officials threw huge piles of pork, tomatoes, peaches and cheese into landfills and garbage incinerators. The frenzy, remarkable even by the standards of Russia?s recent politicization of food supplies, was gleefully reported by Russian state television.? This is in a country where food prices have soared because of the collapse of the ruble.

My fear is that once Putin?s food-burning nationalist sugar high wears off, he?ll burn up another neighbor. Estonia, please beware.

Alas, though, America has joined this assets bonfire. We?re now in a world where all top-down authority structures are being challenged. It?s most obvious in the Arab world where you have pluralistic countries that lack pluralism and so could be held together from the top-down only by an iron fist ? and when that iron fist got removed they spun apart. America?s greatest advantage is its pluralism: It can govern itself horizontally by its people of all colors and creeds forging social contracts to live together as equal citizens.

It not only makes us more stable but also more innova?tive, because we can collab?orate internally and exter?nally with anyone anywhere, leveraging more brainpower. Who is the new CEO of Goo?gle? Sundar Pichai. Who is the new CEO of Microsoft? Satya Nadella. Mark Zuckerberg?s family did not come over on the Mayflower.

But right now we?re messing around with that incredible asset. Yes, we must control our borders; it is the essence of sovereignty. It has been a failure of both our polit?ical parties that the Mexi?can- American border has been so porous. So I am for a high wall but with a very big gate ? one that legally lets in energetic low-skilled workers and the high-IQ risk-takers who have made our economy the envy of the world ? and for legislation that provides a pathway for the millions of illegal immigrants already here to gain legal status and eventually citizenship.

In June 2013, the Senate, including 14 Republicans, passed a bill that would do all that. But the extremists in the GOP House refused to follow, so the bill stalled.

And now we have Trump shamelessly exploiting this issue even more. He?s calling for an end to the 14th Amend?ment?s birthright principle, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, and also for a government program to round up all 11 million illegal immigrants and send them home ? an utterly lunatic idea that Trump dismisses as a mere ?management? prob?lem. Like lemmings, many of the other GOP presidential hopefuls just followed Trump over that cliff.

This is not funny anymore. This is not entertaining. Donald Trump is not cute. His ugly nativism shamefully plays on people?s fears and ig?norance. It ignores bipartisan solutions already on the table, undermines the civic ideals that make our melting pot work in ways no European or Asian country can match (try to become a Japanese) and tampers with the very secret of our sauce ? pluralism, that out of many we make one.

Every era spews up a Joe McCarthy type who tries to thrive by dividing and fright?ening us, and today his name is Donald Trump.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 07:57:31 am
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

My sentiments exactly.  We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers.  At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 12, 2015, 01:11:29 pm
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

My sentiments exactly.  We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers.  At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.

Dennis

 |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:01:57 pm
I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.

We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..

Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..

We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.

How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

I still love my country.   

 

Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.

I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect. Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.

You want to talk about disrespect look at what they did to W.

As for reelecting the same or same type of person to office, any office, look at what is offered on the table. Gruel. Or gruel. You're free to chose. No one wants to subject themselves to being torn apart by the "press". (That term is used ever so loosely.) A couple of promising hopefuls, like Ted Cruz stood up but most won't.

And I do educate myself. There is no one that knows me personally that would ever say I am a low to no information voter.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:14:11 pm
Greg, let's take this one first:

Quote
20. To begin with, Bush?s brother Jeb and the American Supreme Court stole the presidency on his behalf in 2000.  Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida at the time, cynically blocked more than 50,000 African-American voters from voting, then refused to allow a simple recount of the Florida votes after tens of thousands of complaints regarding voter difficulties at the voting booth due to confusing ballots. Several major national news organizations have verified that, had the votes been recounted, VP Al Gore would have won the presidency rather than President Bush.

How many times were the ballots counted? Every time they were in W's favor. Let's say, just for giggles they did in fact count them one more time and it went to Gore. What then? Gore gets the position? What about the four times that went to W? The only real place that was in doubt was south Florida. Democrat territory.

Quote
3. President Bush and his policies led to the 2007 Great Recession. The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Reserve stood idly by while the big banks created a $600,000,0000,000,000  mortgage-backed derivatives bubble that burst and brought down the global economy

Anyone ever realize that W tried at least 3 times to stop the fall?
2001

    April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."  (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)

2002

    May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

    February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.


    September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.


    September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities ? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ? are not facing any kind of financial crisis ? The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."  (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03) 


    October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."  (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)


    November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk."  To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE."  (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

    February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator:  "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore ? should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator."  (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)


    February: Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted."  Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator."  (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)


    April: Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages.  I don't think we are in any remote danger here.  This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there."  ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)


    June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system.  Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs:  Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System."  (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

    April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America ? Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system."  (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)


    July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)

2007

    August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions.  Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options."  (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)


    August: Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position.  (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)


    December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly.  So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs ? and ensures they focus on their important housing mission.  The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start.  But the Senate has not acted.  And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon."  (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)

2008

    February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully."  (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)


    March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages."  (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)


    April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by ? helping people stay in their homes."  (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)


    May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

        "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes.  Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans."  (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)


        "[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes.  And one way we can do that ? and Congress is making progress on this ? is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator."  (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)


        "Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans."  (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

    June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."  (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)


    July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.


    September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? ? I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years."  (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)
 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 07:37:15 pm
Odd....most of these measures have been repealed by the republicans as the current President attempts to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again...Elizabeth warren is a strong advocate of stronger wall street control measures too. The Republicans don't like that....and yes, they didn't like Bush trying to do something preventative too.....they just let Barnie carry the torch for them.

Trouble with George was that he might have talked about it, but couldn't get anything done....and it's the same wall that President Obama is banging on now. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs....on the 1%'ers and their lobbyists......oh and those Congressional members in their hip pockets...


""Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.

I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect.""

If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 07:39:37 pm
Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.


..... sorry no respect for this liar and cheat.

On his worst day our current president is head & shoulder above Bill Clinton in respectability.  Of course you could probably say that for most of the other presidents as well.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:47:46 pm
Quote
1. Unlike President Obama, President Bush stood by and watched as 35 million uninsured Americans risked death and financial ruin without proper and affordable health care.

And the Affordable Care Act is working? What needed to be done was a multi step process. HSAs. Selling across state lines. Tort reform to name just a few.

I know my premiums have gone up. And up. And I now pay more OOP than previously. So while my wexpenses have gone up salary is stagnant.

Quote
7. Bush created spiraling federal deficits. After President Clinton handed him an annual budget surplus, President Bush single-handedly drove our country into that by creating the three biggest drivers of federal debt: the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and Medicare part D. according to a recent report by a Harvard researcher, the total costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars will end up being somewhere between $4 and $6 trillion.

Well let's compare that to us. If I have a car and for the first little while I take care of it I have "x" amount of expenditure. Now what happens if I stop? I of course save money. And it may run fine. At least until I sell it in 4 years. Then after I am done with it the engine blows up. Replace the engine. Cost? More than maintenance would have been but hey IK saved money. Same with the money Clinton didn't spend on our military. He decimated it like Carter and like Reagan W had to rebuild it.

If you owe trillions of dollars how the devil do you ever have a surplus? I owe 148,000 on the house and $6,000 on a CC. Until both are paid off I won't have a surplus.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-bill-clinton-didnt-balance-budget

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:50:47 pm


If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...

But it is his name. I do not call him names like the libs did/do to W. W got torn apart by the libs.

I can't stand my middle name yet some still insist.

Dennis, I will respectfully disagree on Slick. At least he somewhat loves this country. Hussein does not.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:57:39 pm
Adding to the current situation information.

While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.

Greg, I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:00:40 pm
And the Affordable Care Act is working?

There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.

Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start?  The UK is still improving on their program.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 08:09:55 pm
And the Affordable Care Act is working?

There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.

Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start?  The UK is still improving on their program.

Dennis
Adding to the current situation information.

While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.

 'Joe blow',Greg I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.

It never got quite that bad as to the 400's....LOL.....

And the ACA is working....where it's not is where the Republican lead states turned down the matching funding to create insurance pools for everyone...and by not doing this they forced the folks in their states to pay inflated insurance premiums....and the ACA is plenty good for Cruz, huh?...his wife quits her job so they can sign up for the good/cheap ACA healthcare...yes, it's working fine most everywhere except in the states where they're just plain rejecting it to try and make it, and the President, look bad......sad.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:13:38 pm
Quote
6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.

Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?

According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more.  The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.

And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:

Quote
But the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.

The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:17:58 pm
And the Affordable Care Act is working?

There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.

Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start?  The UK is still improving on their program.

Dennis

Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?

The most recent Real Clear Politics average of recent Obamacare approval finds 43.6% favoring the law and 51.4% opposing it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlaszewski2/2015/06/29/why-the-affordable-care-act-isnt-here-to-stay/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 08:24:18 pm
Quote
6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.

Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?

According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more.  The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.

And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:

Quote
But the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.

The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.

The 1%'ers saw a spike in their earnings from 2000-2007, plus the influx of new 1'%'ers emerged.....it's what caused the crash. They were tapping that mortgage market money for all it was worth....they likely would have paid even more except for tax loopholes and offshore accounts....and rightly so...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:25:32 pm
And the Affordable Care Act is working?

There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.

Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start?  The UK is still improving on their program.

Dennis
Adding to the current situation information.

While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.

 'Joe blow',Greg I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.

It never got quite that bad as to the 400's....LOL.....

And the ACA is working....where it's not is where the Republican lead states turned down the matching funding to create insurance pools for everyone...and by not doing this they forced the folks in their states to pay inflated insurance premiums....and the ACA is plenty good for Cruz, huh?...his wife quits her job so they can sign up for the good/cheap ACA healthcare...yes, it's working fine most everywhere except in the states where they're just plain rejecting it to try and make it, and the President, look bad......sad.....

In 2013, months before the exchanges came online and the changeover took effect, the government's human resources department issued rules for how Congress would obtain insurance through the exchanges.

Under those rules, senators, representatives and staff seeking insurance through the federal government are required to purchase it on a Washington, D.C.-based exchange intended for local small businesses. But they still receive the same employer contribution as other federal workers ? about 75%.

The companies offering policies through the exchange may be different from those with plans in the federal benefits program and there may be "slight differences in benefit design," said Sabrina Corlette, project director at Georgetown University's Center on Health Insurance Reforms. But on the whole, the options are about the same.

"Essentially those folks are being treated as if they're still in an employer-based plan with an employer contribution to make the premium affordable for members and staff," she said of members of Congress and staffers.

In short, the Affordable Care Act ? as amended by Grassley's proposal ? created a new bureaucratic pathway that members of Congress and their staff must follow to obtain health insurance, but it's virtually indistinguishable from what they had previously.

THE SPECIFICS: So, how does that all relate to Ted Cruz?

Cruz has said he received no health insurance coverage through the federal government since becoming a U.S. senator in 2013. Instead, he and his daughters have been covered under his wife's employer-provided plan.

Now, he has options.

He could enroll in congressional coverage, thereby going on the Washington, D.C.-based exchange, shopping for a plan and then paying roughly 25% of the premium while the federal government picks up the rest.

Because of the Grassley amendment, this technically means he's obtaining coverage under Obamacare, but it's a distinction without a difference, Corlette said. Under this scenario, Cruz would still get insurance with a major contribution from his employer, the federal government.

He wouldn't be enrolled in Medicaid ? which was expanded in many states under Obamacare ? or receive any of the government subsidies provided to moderate-income Americans obtaining private insurance through an exchange, according to the federal Office of Personnel Management.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:47:27 pm
Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?

Just off the top of my head I'd say it's because most of those polled haven't bothered to do any fact finding and simply base there opinion on the crap they hear from outlets like FOX......

Bill O'Reilly is to white people what Jessie Jackson is to the black people.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:48:08 pm
Quote
And now we have Trump shamelessly exploiting this issue even more. He?s calling for an end to the 14th Amend?ment?s birthright principle, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, and also for a government program to round up all 11 million illegal immigrants and send them home ? an utterly lunatic idea that Trump dismisses as a mere ?management? prob?lem. Like lemmings, many of the other GOP presidential hopefuls just followed Trump over that cliff.

If by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.

The 14th was ratified in 1868. How come Indians born in the US were not citizens until 1924?

The 14th was actually written for the former slave since they were under the jurisdiction of the US. Illegal aliens are not. They are illegal and actually subject to the jurisdiction of their mother land.
It was in fact to prevent the former slave from the democrats of the time.

http://www.14thamendment.us/index.html
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:49:41 pm
Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?

Just off the top of my head I'd say it's because most of those polled haven't bothered to do any fact finding and simply base there opinion on the crap they hear from outlets like FOX......

Bill O'Reilly is to white people what Jessie Jackson is to the black people.

Dennis

Better Fox than the crap spewed by the liberal media. Although I can't believe Fox still has Geraldo and O'Reilly.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:57:15 pm
Quote
6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.

Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?

According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more.  The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.

And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:

Quote
But the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.

The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.

The 1%'ers saw a spike in their earnings from 2000-2007, plus the influx of new 1'%'ers emerged.....it's what caused the crash. They were tapping that mortgage market money for all it was worth....they likely would have paid even more except for tax loopholes and offshore accounts....and rightly so...

New 1%ers. Do you mean new as in new to the US from other counties or newly rich 1%ers?

And Jon, two things of note.
1 The 1% pay over 50% of the taxes.
2 47% of the people pay no taxes.

And who was the one that tried to stop the faucet of mortgage money Jon? Who tried to protect the taxpayer Jon? Which Senator had their hand in Country Wide Mortgages back pocket Jon?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 11:30:07 pm
And this.

 http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/

Quote
8. Bush destroyed America?s standing in the world by ignoring the international ban on torture. While ignoring several agreements, namely the Geneva Convention, the Pentagon created a network of secret prisons and detention centers, where American soldiers tortured and mistreated suspected terrorists. The Bush White House then created secret detention sites in Eastern Europe in order to evade traditional justice systems.

What they don't tell you is the Geneva Conventions (yes, it is plural there are 4 conventions IIRC) do not apply.
Quote

Unfortunately, the basis for the Red Cross's conclusion appears to have more to do with institutional self-aggrandizement than with international law. Many leftist academics and activists insist that the Geneva Conventions must be universally applied. Yet, that argument is undercut by those treaties' texts. The Third Geneva Convention explicitly states that parties need not apply it to all conflicts, especially when the foes are not parties, and when enemies do not abide by its terms.[16]

No terrorist group is a party to the Geneva Conventions. They have not signed, much less ratified, those treaties. Moreover, it is evident that Hamas, Hezbollah, and members of the global Al-Qaeda network spurn both the spirit and the letter of international treaties designed to ameliorate the cruelty of war. Bloody attacks in New York, Jerusalem, Bali, Madrid, and Beslan are testament to the fact that these groups seek to kill civilians rather than to take captives. And when Islamist terrorists do seize hostages, brutality rather than protection appears to be the rule.

Iraqi insurgents beheaded 26-year-old American businessman Nicholas Berg and shot 20-year-old Keith Matthew Maupin shortly after the June 28, 2004 transfer of sovereignty. On July 22, Iraqi police found the beheaded corpse of a Bulgarian hostage. The Arabic satellite television network Al-Jazeera had confirmed on July 13 that it had a tape showing his execution.[17] Iraqi captors have also executed Pakistanis, a Turk, and a South Korean, among others. Such mistreatment of prisoners is not a new phenomenon among terrorist groups. In the 1980s, Hezbollah captured a number of Westerners in Lebanon, among them priests, journalists, professors, a librarian, and even the president of the American University of Beirut. Hezbollah tortured and hanged U.S. Marine lieutenant colonel William Higgins. Iraqi insurgents who decapitate civilian hostages have no more international legal claim to protection than did Hezbollah kidnappers.

By violating every tenet of international law regarding treatment of prisoners, terrorist groups forfeit any entitlement to protection under the Geneva Conventions. U.S. forces would be within their legal rights to treat captured Al-Qaeda members as they did Nazi saboteurs during World War II?trial by military commission and execution by firing squad.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 11:33:02 pm
And this.

 http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/

Greg, I have provided the proof shooting down much of the left wing rhetoric you linked. Do I really need to go on?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 12:06:34 am
Quote
10. When attacking Iraq, the Bush Pentagon failed to declare martial law, and did not secure anything except the Iraqi Oil Ministry. Tens of thousands of National Guard soldiers took to the streets in protest, looted the National Museum, and terrorized the Iraqi people as the American soldiers looked on.

I'm not exactly sure if the US President could in fact legally declare martial law in a foreign country.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 12:14:07 am
The stretch with the flattest level is with the republican control of purse strings. Actually Conservative not repubican.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 12:14:53 am
Yeah it's true.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 13, 2015, 01:05:55 am


If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...

But it is his name. I do not call him names like the libs did/do to W. W got torn apart by the libs.

I can't stand my middle name yet some still insist.

Dennis, I will respectfully disagree on Slick. At least he somewhat loves this country. Hussein does not.

I call him Hussein because  thats his name ,oh please.
You call him Hussein becasue many Muslims share it,and you are trying to associate them.A  code  for all the bigoted Muslim haters.

If his middle name  was Jesus you sure as hell wouldn't be calling him that,you probably couldn't force yourself to type it. 

   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 13, 2015, 04:50:16 am
You seem to have all these 'sound bites' memorized, and bookmarked all the appropriate tea party links bashing everything....you aren't very open minded are you?...

So far I haven't seen one good thing that you've said about our President, sad. Myself, I'm not going to continue to trade barbs on 'he says, she says'....we could trade pundit quotes from both sides of any issue til the cows come home. You obviously have built up a scorn regarding everything that our President has accomplished while in office. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it....but be sure and respect others for their opinions too.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 07:12:49 am
You seem to have all these 'sound bites' memorized, and bookmarked all the appropriate tea party links bashing everything....you aren't very open minded are you?...

So far I haven't seen one good thing that you've said about our President, sad. Myself, I'm not going to continue to trade barbs on 'he says, she says'....we could trade pundit quotes from both sides of any issue til the cows come home. You obviously have built up a scorn regarding everything that our President has accomplished while in office. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it....but be sure and respect others for their opinions too.
Jon, the site for W trying to stop the fall is a .gov. Doubt that is Tea Party. Others are from various sources some liberal at that. No they are not bookmarked. It took a while to research what I posted.

What I have posted are not my opinion. They are in fact fact. I avoided the rhetoric wherever possible and presented researched facts.

What has he really accomplished?

One good thing about out President? Sure. Come Jan 2017 he will be gone. That's good.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 13, 2015, 01:39:44 pm
Quote
What I have posted are not my opinion. They are in fact fact. I avoided the rhetoric wherever possible and presented researched facts.

Most of your recent posts look like they were puked back up from some crypto-racist websites that you are too embarrassed to link to.
I would guess half of them are right wing lies they have posted that you have bought into them hook, line, and sinker.
I felt like I was wasting my time looking at that crap!

If you did your "research" than it is easy to include a link!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 02:46:35 pm
Here's the link to the timeline if the collapse.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html

To the USA Today article on Cruz. USA Today ranks in bias as about the same as Google, CBS, Bloomberg and ABC. So definitley not right wing.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/01/ted-cruz-obamacare/70765296/

I provided the links vis a vis CLinton surplus in the post itself.

How about links/information supporting your side? And not from left wing sound bites?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 13, 2015, 03:55:55 pm
Oh joy.....'link wars'....just peachie.... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 13, 2015, 05:04:03 pm
Quote
USA Today ranks in bias as about the same as Google, CBS, Bloomberg and ABC. So definitley not right wing.
Guess your an expert on bias.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 13, 2015, 05:59:10 pm
Quote
If by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.

In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 08:28:44 pm
Quote
If by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.

In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Except that where you have a period the Amendment itself has a comma. After the comma it specifies the requirement for it to apply.
While the child of an illegal alien may be born here technically they are subject to the jurisdiction of their motherland not the US.

Then how come the American Indian was not considered a citizen until 1924?
The 14th was so that the former slave would be considered a citizen. They were under the jurisdiction of the US government.

Quote
The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the 1965 immigration Act, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term).

Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment.

In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing:
Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.

http://www.cairco.org/issues/anchor-babies
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 08:46:17 pm
Bill, I'll save you from looking who Senator Jacob Howard is. He sponsored the 14th.

Quote
The original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal aliens defying U.S. law and obtaining citizenship for their offspring, nor obtaining benefits at taxpayer expense. Current estimates indicate there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S., thus causing illegal alien mothers to add more to the U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965.

Australia rescinded birthright citizenship in 2007, as did New Zealand in 2006, Ireland in 2005, France in 1993, and the United Kingdom in 1983. This leaves the United States and Canada as the only remaining industrialized nations to grant automatic citizenship to every person born within the borders of the country, irrespective of their parents' nationality or immigration status.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 14, 2015, 06:32:07 am
Quote
If by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.

In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Except that where you have a period the Amendment itself has a comma. After the comma it specifies the requirement for it to apply.
While the child of an illegal alien may be born here technically they are subject to the jurisdiction of their motherland not the US.

Then how come the American Indian was not considered a citizen until 1924?
The 14th was so that the former slave would be considered a citizen. They were under the jurisdiction of the US government.

Quote
The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the 1965 immigration Act, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term).

Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment.

In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing:
Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.

http://www.cairco.org/issues/anchor-babies


and you conveniently left out the rest of your highlighted sentence...huh?.......""who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.....

It seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL   

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 14, 2015, 08:16:41 am
Jon, you are not parsing the sentence correctly.

Quote
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States
who are foreigners, (that is one description) aliens (second description) who belong to the families... (the third description of a person born here).

Broken out the sentence yields in reality three sentences.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are aliens.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors?


If it was meant to include all born here than how come the American Indian was not considered a US citizen until 1924 if the 14th was ratified in 1868? A full 56 years later? The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 14, 2015, 08:29:06 am
Jon, you are not parsing the sentence correctly.

Quote
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States
who are foreigners, (that is one description) aliens (second description) who belong to the families... (the third description of a person born here).

Broken out the sentence yields in reality three sentences.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are aliens.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors?

Oh joy.....semantics on the wording of the Constitution......gee, I wonder why 'they' never thought of that...

I'm thinking that next to the Bible, Our Constitution has to be the most mis-quoted document(s) out there.....out of context snippets are used to suit about anyone's agenda.....sweeeeeeet...LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 14, 2015, 08:51:10 am
It's not semantics Jon. It is correct parsing of a sentence.

But alas I guess the Senator was wrong when he said this:

Quote
It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 14, 2015, 09:28:19 am
It's not semantics Jon. It is correct parsing of a sentence.

But alas I guess the Senator was wrong when he said this:

Quote
It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States.


LOLOLOLOL.....even more semantics....... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 14, 2015, 12:16:54 pm
The Donald and the Demagogues

Democracies that trade substance for charisma don?t last. Trump is America?s answer to Hugo Ch?vez.

By Bret Stephens - Aug. 31, 2015 - The Wall Street Journal

If by now you don?t find Donald Trump appalling, you?re appalling.

If you have reached physical maturity and still chuckle at Mr. Trump?s pubescent jokes about Rosie O?Donnell or Heidi Klum, you will never reach mental maturity. If you watched Mr. Trump mock fellow candidate Lindsey Graham?s low poll numbers and didn?t cringe at the lack of class, you are incapable of class. If you think we need to build new airports in Queens the way they build them in Qatar, you should be sent to join the millions of forced laborers who do construction in the Persian Gulf. It would serve you right.

Since Mr. Trump joined the GOP presidential field and leaped to the top of the polls, several views have been offered to explain his popularity. He conveys a can-do image. He is the bluntest of the candidates in addressing public fears of cultural and economic dislocation. He toes no line, serves no PAC, abides no ideology, is beholden to no man. He addresses the broad disgust of everyday Americans with their failed political establishment.

And so forth and so on?a parade of semi-sophisticated theories that act as bathroom deodorizer to mask the stench of this candidacy. Mr. Trump is a loudmouth vulgarian appealing to quieter vulgarians. These vulgarians comprise a significant percentage of the GOP base. The leader isn?t the problem. The people are. It takes the demos to make the demagogue.

There will be other opportunities to write about the radical affinities and moralizing conceits of Democrats and liberals. For now let?s speak plainly about what the Trump ascendancy says about the potential future of the Republican Party and the conservative movement.

It says that we may soon have a conservative movement in which the American creed of ?give us your tired, your poor? could yield to the Trumpian creed that America must not become a ?dumping ground? to poor immigrants from Latin America, as if these millions of hardworking and God-fearing people are a specimen of garbage.

It says that a party that carries on about the importance of e pluribus unum and rails against the identity politics of assorted minorities is increasingly tempted to indulge the paranoid (and losing) identity politics of a dwindling white majority.

It says that a sizable constituency in a party that is supposed to favor a plain reading of the Constitution objects to a plain reading of the 14th Amendment: ?All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.?

It says that a movement that is supposed to believe in defending old-fashioned values and traditions against the assorted degradations of the postmodern left might allow itself to be led by a reality-TV star whose meretricious tastes in trophies, architectural and otherwise, mainly remind me of the aesthetics of Bob Guccione.

It says that a party that is supposed to believe in the incomparable awesomeness of America thinks we are losing the economic hunger games to the brilliant political leadership of . . . Mexico. It says that a movement that is supposed to believe in economic freedom doesn?t believe in the essence of economic freedom: to wit, the free movement of goods, services, capital and labor.

It says that many of the same people who have bellyached nonstop for the past seven years about the cult-of-personality president currently in the Oval Office are seriously willing to consider another cult-of-personality figure on the off-chance he?s peddling the cure America needs. Focus group testing by pollster Frank Luntz suggests that Mr. Trump?s fans could care less about his flip-flopping political views but responded almost rapturously to his apparently magnetic persona.

When people become indifferent to the ideas of their would-be leaders, those leaders become prone to dangerous ideas. Democracies that trade policy substance for personal charisma tend not to last as democracies. They become Bolivarian republics. Donald Trump may be America?s Hugo Ch?vez, minus the political consistency.
***

Because the Republican Party has not lost its mind?at least not yet?I doubt that Mr. Trump will be its presidential nominee. A single bad poll could break him. The summer before an election-year summer tends to be a political clown-time. Voters, like diners in a fancy restaurant, may entertain the idea of ordering the pigeon, but they?ll probably wind up with the chicken.

Still, Mr. Trump?s political star is rising in a period when fringe politics, both on the right and the left, are making a comeback in the West. Marine Le Pen in France. Beppe Grillo in Italy. Jeremy Corbyn in Great Britain. Bernie Sanders in the Democratic Party. Every now and then some of these characters get into office. Look at Viktor Orb?n in Hungary, or Alexis Tsipras in Greece.

Republicans like to think of America as an exceptional nation. And it is, not least in its distaste for demagogues. Donald Trump?s candidacy puts the strength of that distaste to the test.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 14, 2015, 12:30:28 pm
Quote
It seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL   

Don't be surprised at this. He is really good at cherry picking.
One can create a pseudo-logical rationale easily but ignoring real facts and stringing together random things.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 14, 2015, 02:40:19 pm
Quote
It seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL   

Don't be surprised at this. He is really good at cherry picking.
One can create a pseudo-logical rationale easily but ignoring real facts and stringing together random things.

Actually Bill I leave that to the democrats. I have provided the links if you want to read them yourself to see what I have "cherry picked". I've backed my stuff up. So far I see nothing but rhetoric to support what you say. Well that part of it anyway where you are not personally attacking me.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 08:26:05 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/10898316_769208286505561_4084451067492756617_n.jpg?oh=50b6af5bf422b41132c33488c043d732&oe=56645423)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 11:29:25 am
Why don't we compare W painting to Bill's antics on that island? Heck just Bill's antics in the White House?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 11:31:44 am
Why don't we compare W painting to Bill's antics on that island? Heck just Bill's antics in the White House?

You could write the cartoonist, ya know.....he might care??.... |^|    LOL
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 16, 2015, 11:33:16 am
Quote
Well that part of it anyway where you are not personally attacking me.

What you call personal attacks are just me describing your behavior.
The evidence for it is your posts.
You keep piling them higher and deeper, and then complain when other point this out.

Classic Republican tactic.
Its just sad.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 03:19:01 pm
Bill I have posted facts then provided the links to where I found them to back it up.

You have posted, hmm, well nothing really to back up anything.
Just personal attacks is all from you.

Typical Democrat tactic.

It is so, so sad.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 03:41:51 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12006604_1620607864872322_2270509617805582326_o.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 16, 2015, 05:31:55 pm
Quote
Typical Democrat tactic.

It is so, so sad.

Copy cat.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 05:52:35 pm
Jon, Maher is the idiot. They are already doing a couple of those things.

Bill how about you copycat me and post facts to back up your stuff.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 06:19:18 pm
A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She reduced altitude and spotted a man below.
She descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago but I don't know where I am."
The man below replied "You're in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You're between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude."
"You must be a Republican," said the
balloonist. "I am", replied the man.
"How did you know?"
"Well, answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I've no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything, you've delayed my trip even more."
The man below responded, "You must be a Democrat."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," said the man, "You don't know
where you are or where you're going.You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise which you've no idea how to keep, and somehow it's my fault?!!"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 06:25:41 pm
Jon, Maher is the idiot. They are already doing a couple of those things.

Bill how about you copycat me and post facts to back up your stuff.

......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 06:47:07 pm
Well they did give guns to mexico and they did kill a border patrol agent with said gun.

Look how many places it is illegal to own guns. Look at Chicago, DC, NY.  The SCOTUS ruled the DC law unconstitutional yet they still don't issue permits.
http://thehill.com/regulation/other/213447-court-overturns-dc-handgun-law
BTW all the gun laws are in violation of the 2nd.


While they claim separation of church and state they are making kids in school in one state write there is no other god but allah.

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/parents-furious-after-7th-graders-forced-to-write-allah-is-the/

And since most won't believe that link here is the liberal snopes on it

http://m.snopes.com/islam-tennessee-school/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 06:51:30 pm
Well they did give guns to mexico and they did kill a border patrol agent with said gun.

Look how many places it is illegal to own guns. Look at Chicago, DC, NY.  The SCOTUS ruled the DC law unconstitutional yet they still don't issue permits.
http://thehill.com/regulation/other/213447-court-overturns-dc-handgun-law
BTW all the gun laws are in violation of the 2nd.


While they claim separation of church and state they are making kids in school in one state write there is no other god but allah.

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/parents-furious-after-7th-graders-forced-to-write-allah-is-the/

And since most won't believe that link here is the liberal snopes on it

http://m.snopes.com/islam-tennessee-school/

That nut case school teacher is the problem of the local board of education ya know....??  they hired her....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 07:15:59 pm
The circus is on now................

http://www.cnn.com/ (http://www.cnn.com/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 07:19:22 pm
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-dad-protests-islamic-lessons-school/nj7Ny/

This stuff is coming down from the Dept of misEducation not just local. Just like Common Core. While legally the federal Department of Education cannot mandate programs like Common Core to the states they do coerce them. If states didn't adopt CC they lost $35 million in funding. Bill Gates also had a hand in it with grants.

Quote
SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. ?

A history book used in school districts across the state is sparking controversy in Seminole County.

A parent called 9 Investigates after finding out his son was learning too much about the Islamic religion in a public classroom.

Ron Wagner read from part of his son's world history book, "There is no god, but God. Muhamad is the messenger of God."

Wagner is not reading the Five Pillars of Islam from the Quran, but rather his son's 10th-grade world history book from Lyman High School.

"Students were instructed to recite this prayer as the first Pillar of Islam, off of the board at the teacher's instruction," Wagner claims.

Wagner, who is not religious, said he had no idea the public school was teaching so extensively about religion until he spotted a text on his son's phone from a teacher reminding him to complete a prayer rug assignment and study an Islam packet.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 16, 2015, 07:53:57 pm
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-dad-protests-islamic-lessons-school/nj7Ny/

This stuff is coming down from the Dept of misEducation not just local. Just like Common Core. While legally the federal Department of Education cannot mandate programs like Common Core to the states they do coerce them. If states didn't adopt CC they lost $35 million in funding. Bill Gates also had a hand in it with grants.

Quote
SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. ?

A history book used in school districts across the state is sparking controversy in Seminole County.

A parent called 9 Investigates after finding out his son was learning too much about the Islamic religion in a public classroom.

Ron Wagner read from part of his son's world history book, "There is no god, but God. Muhamad is the messenger of God."

Wagner is not reading the Five Pillars of Islam from the Quran, but rather his son's 10th-grade world history book from Lyman High School.

"Students were instructed to recite this prayer as the first Pillar of Islam, off of the board at the teacher's instruction," Wagner claims.

Wagner, who is not religious, said he had no idea the public school was teaching so extensively about religion until he spotted a text on his son's phone from a teacher reminding him to complete a prayer rug assignment and study an Islam packet.


but but but.....I like Bill Gates..........even if Fox Entertainment doesn't.....golly gee....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 16, 2015, 08:35:44 pm
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 09:08:16 pm
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.

Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 09:33:08 pm
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.

Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.

If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.

And the Bible is my favorite book. And my favorite verse is the shortest. Two words. "Jesus wept"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 10:11:53 pm
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.

Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.

If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.

So are you saying a true muslim is looking to kill everybody,that's what it sounds like.
Christianity should absolutely not be taught in public schools,or any other religion.

Evolution shouldn't be taught if christianity can't be,same old ridiculous BS.If you are worried about your children becoming unbrainwashed send them to a private school of your choice. 
Or home school them, and  take the chance they don't become freak outcasts who and up killing their parents to escape indoctrination.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 16, 2015, 10:55:25 pm
Quote
If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.

You are in denial of your own essential self (that you are an evolved entity).
You also seem to want your kids to be poorly educated (family tradition?).
If your a Catholic (I am assuming you are Catholic since you are always going on about being Italian, so apologies if you aren't), then you are disagreeing wit what your church says.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 11:06:48 pm
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.

Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.

If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.

So are you saying a true muslim is looking to kill everybody,that's what it sounds like.
Christianity should absolutely not be taught in public schools,or any other religion.

Evolution shouldn't be taught if christianity can't be,same old ridiculous BS.If you are worried about your children becoming unbrainwashed send them to a private school of your choice. 
Or home school them, and  take the chance they don't become freak outcasts who and up killing their parents to escape indoctrination.

My neighbor's girls are both home schooled. They tested well above their public school peers. And neither wants to kill their parents. Both are now in college and still are above par in grades.

http://www.businessinsider.com/structured-homeschool-canada-2011-9

http://www.brighthubeducation.com/homeschool-methodologies/126403-why-homeschooled-kids-are-smarter/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/

 
Quote
Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.

Beyond academics, there were significant results regarding achievement gaps. It is common knowledge that gender, as well as parents? income and education levels will greatly affect a public school student?s academic results. Public schools have invested greatly to try to close these achievement gaps. The study, however, shows the achievement gaps found in public school were greatly diminished for the home educated.

Your other remark is pretty much totally inane about the home schooled.

I am not Catholic so I can't answer about the Crusades. But then again the Catholic church does many things that are not doctrinally Christian nor biblical. But weren't the crusades against muslim aggression toward Christians?

As for teaching the theory of evolution teach it. But teach creation also.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 11:15:32 pm
Quote
If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.

You are in denial of your own essential self (that you are an evolved entity).
You also seem to want your kids to be poorly educated (family tradition?).
If your a Catholic (I am assuming you are Catholic since you are always going on about being Italian, so apologies if you aren't), then you are disagreeing wit what your church says.

While I was born into a Catholic family I am not Catholic. I've been a "card carrying" athiest. An agnostic. To a Christian. A born again believer saved by Grace.

I am in no way poorly educated Bill. I did go to college and kept a 4.0 the entire time I was there. Yes. I do have my degree. And it's in a totally different field than what I have done for a living my entire life.

Do you believe you came from monkeys.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 06:27:12 am
And this:

Texas Police Won't Charge Muslim Boy With Clock Possession

As you've probably heard (Dallas Morning News, Washington Post, Popehat, everybody else who gets up earlier than I do, which is apparently everybody), police in Irving, Texas, have announced that they will not bring charges against 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed.

This is mostly because he did nothing even remotely illegal.

not a criminal That didn't stop them from taking him away in handcuffs, though, after they decided the digital clock he built was "suspicious in nature" and that they didn't like his answers to their questions.

Just to be clear, as a New York court has just recently reaffirmed recently, you can say whatever you goddamn well please to the authorities (short of making actual credible threats, at least). Saying "the wrong thing" to a government official is not illegal. This is what the First Amendment is for.

Nor is being "suspicious" justification for an arrest, or even for stopping you on the street, unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot and can actually articulate why he or she believes that. So why did they arrest him, exactly?

Well, he built this and brought it to school:

0916ahmedclock

It is a digital clock. (Ahmed likes to build things.) His English teacher thought it "look[ed] like a bomb. I'm confident that she, like virtually every other civilian, has never seen a real bomb, and this doesn't look anything like the bundle of dynamite with attached analog clock that she probably has seen in cartoons. Nor are there any explosives in this "bomb," but it does have that big digital display that we've all seen in movie bombs. The principal confirmed that this is what they had in mind. "It looks like a movie bomb to me," he reportedly told Ahmed.

But neither they nor the police ever believed it was in fact a bomb, as they all admitted later. Nor did they believe he was trying to get them to believe that. "We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," said a police spokesman, and they never had any. "He kept maintaining it was a clock"?because it was?"but there was no broader explanation," the spokesman said. He couldn't explain what sort of "broader explanation" they were looking for, but I guess they wanted him to explain to their satisfaction that he wasn't going to use it like in the movies. The police chief seemed to confirm that this morning when he said the English teacher "was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."

She almost certainly didn't use that word, for one of two reasons: either (1) it's got too many syllables for her brain to process or (2) she knows that's not what "infrastructure" even means. But the more important thing is that his statement confirms she never thought it was in fact a bomb, and the chief also admitted there was never any evidence that he "intended to create alarm" with what they insisted on calling a "hoax bomb."

He, of course, still defended what they had done, as did Irving's mayor (who has previously expressed great concern about "Sharia law" taking over in Texas, which is also stupid). This is because so many scary things have happened that "we have to err on the side of caution," he said, in this case by arresting a 14-year-old for no reason. And it was completely irrelevant, he insisted, that this particular 14-year-old was a dark-skinned Muslim named "Ahmed Mohamed." Their reaction "would have been the same" under any circumstances, he claimed.

Which is either not true or an admission that they would violate any 14-year-old's rights by arresting him or her without reasonable suspicion of a crime. Take your pick.

Source:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/09/texas-police-wont-charge-for-clock.html
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 17, 2015, 07:23:37 am
 http://humanorigins.si.edu/education/intro-human-evolution
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:06:46 am
a
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:11:12 am
http://humansarefree.com/2013/12/9-scienctific-facts-prove-theory-of.html

http://www.ucg.org/vertical-thought/prove-evolution-is-false-even-without-the-bible
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 08:30:58 am
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:43:02 am
And this:

Texas Police Won't Charge Muslim Boy With Clock Possession

As you've probably heard (Dallas Morning News, Washington Post, Popehat, everybody else who gets up earlier than I do, which is apparently everybody), police in Irving, Texas, have announced that they will not bring charges against 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed.

This is mostly because he did nothing even remotely illegal.

not a criminal That didn't stop them from taking him away in handcuffs, though, after they decided the digital clock he built was "suspicious in nature" and that they didn't like his answers to their questions.

Just to be clear, as a New York court has just recently reaffirmed recently, you can say whatever you goddamn well please to the authorities (short of making actual credible threats, at least). Saying "the wrong thing" to a government official is not illegal. This is what the First Amendment is for.

Nor is being "suspicious" justification for an arrest, or even for stopping you on the street, unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot and can actually articulate why he or she believes that. So why did they arrest him, exactly?

Well, he built this and brought it to school:

0916ahmedclock

It is a digital clock. (Ahmed likes to build things.) His English teacher thought it "look[ed] like a bomb. I'm confident that she, like virtually every other civilian, has never seen a real bomb, and this doesn't look anything like the bundle of dynamite with attached analog clock that she probably has seen in cartoons. Nor are there any explosives in this "bomb," but it does have that big digital display that we've all seen in movie bombs. The principal confirmed that this is what they had in mind. "It looks like a movie bomb to me," he reportedly told Ahmed.

But neither they nor the police ever believed it was in fact a bomb, as they all admitted later. Nor did they believe he was trying to get them to believe that. "We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," said a police spokesman, and they never had any. "He kept maintaining it was a clock"?because it was?"but there was no broader explanation," the spokesman said. He couldn't explain what sort of "broader explanation" they were looking for, but I guess they wanted him to explain to their satisfaction that he wasn't going to use it like in the movies. The police chief seemed to confirm that this morning when he said the English teacher "was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."

She almost certainly didn't use that word, for one of two reasons: either (1) it's got too many syllables for her brain to process or (2) she knows that's not what "infrastructure" even means. But the more important thing is that his statement confirms she never thought it was in fact a bomb, and the chief also admitted there was never any evidence that he "intended to create alarm" with what they insisted on calling a "hoax bomb."

He, of course, still defended what they had done, as did Irving's mayor (who has previously expressed great concern about "Sharia law" taking over in Texas, which is also stupid). This is because so many scary things have happened that "we have to err on the side of caution," he said, in this case by arresting a 14-year-old for no reason. And it was completely irrelevant, he insisted, that this particular 14-year-old was a dark-skinned Muslim named "Ahmed Mohamed." Their reaction "would have been the same" under any circumstances, he claimed.

Which is either not true or an admission that they would violate any 14-year-old's rights by arresting him or her without reasonable suspicion of a crime. Take your pick.

Source:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/09/texas-police-wont-charge-for-clock.html

Jon, they suspended a student because he chewed his poptart into the shape of a gun.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/examiner-recommends-school-board-uphold-pop-tart-suspension/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:46:38 am
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w

Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 09:16:08 am
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w

Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).

Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??

Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 09:37:10 am
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w

Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).

Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??

Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...

Sure anyone can. Yet none have. All I hear is just more liberal rhetoric with nothing to back it up. Not even an opinion piece.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 10:26:51 am
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w

Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).

Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??

Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...

Sure anyone can. Yet none have. All I hear is just more liberal rhetoric with nothing to back it up. Not even an opinion piece.

Would it really make any difference?? I think it would just fan the flames. All this is being taken way too seriously......more "he said", "she said" won't solve a thing.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 10:41:04 am
Yeah. If you're conservative you have to back it up. If a lib you're sitting pretty just saying it.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 11:04:01 am
Yeah. If you're conservative you have to back it up. If a lib you're sitting pretty just saying it.

You just don't get it do you?? ...all the links in the world won't make you right....your opinion, is just that...your opinion, no matter how important, to you, those feelings may be.....me thinks tho protests too much...............chill
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 17, 2015, 01:38:37 pm
 http://www.2think.org/darwinism.shtml
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 01:47:57 pm
http://www.2think.org/darwinism.shtml

 |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 17, 2015, 02:43:32 pm
Quote
While I was born into a Catholic family I am not Catholic. I've been a "card carrying" athiest. An agnostic. To a Christian. A born again believer saved by Grace.
Well at least you don't have to argue with the Pope in scientific and religious issues.

Quote
I am in no way poorly educated Bill. I did go to college and kept a 4.0 the entire time I was there. Yes. I do have my degree. And it's in a totally different field than what I have done for a living my entire life.
You are certainly uneducated about biology, yet you continue to blather on ignorant crap about it.

Quote
Do you believe you came from monkeys.
I believe that all of us came from the last common ancestor of humans and monkeys, which in turn came from some earlier organism probably somewhat like a rodent (without the funny teeth), and on and on back to more than a billion years ago to when the earth cooled and random chemistry assembled complex sets of self-replicating nano-machines that make copies of the information used in their own generation.
Many of the steps in this scenario are supported but actual data: experiments, fossils that have been found, comparisons using old DNA, modern chemical experiments.

What is your explanation based upon?

Or a more interesting question:
How do you choose which part of what Bible to pull the bits out that you so like to use to justify your nasty feelings about people.

And how is this being American? Seems quite the opposite to me.



Quote
Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Wonder why?
I have kind of had it with the quality of your links.
I spent a lot of time chasing your links in a previous thread on climate change.
NEVER have I seem a more pathetic, bunch of (what are most likely) intentionally inaccurate sources (this means cherry picking Mr. Educated).
At that time, I went through them and showed how they were wrong (every one as I recall).
You started a proud tradition of stupid and are now I see going back to the same sources.

You now have a credibility problem.
There is not a good reason to follow your links. The odds are it would be a waste of my time.
And again, this is my opinion (not needing a link) based upon the posts that you have made here (not requiring a link).
It is a description of your own behavior, which you could argue about, but you will consider a personal attack (because you are a conservative and any disagreement with you is a personal attack, an attack on the Bible, or unconstitutional (Of course, it does work the other way does it?)).



Furthermore.
Use links to show DATA.
It better if you use your own words to express your own ideas.

At least give a little summary of the ideas in the links you post.

I am no longer interested in posting links for your benefit, because I do not believe you have any serious interest in other opinions.
Posts for other people are of course different.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 19, 2015, 09:37:33 am
(http://s12.postimg.org/imq9hzhsd/10188975_33_920_1227.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 21, 2015, 01:11:58 pm
(http://f.tqn.com/y/politicalhumor/1/S/Y/U/6/Art-of-the-Deal.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 21, 2015, 03:25:48 pm
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs  i  turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed     up my dinner.   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 21, 2015, 04:07:02 pm
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs  i  turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed     up my dinner.


This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|

Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports Say
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on September 21, 2015, 04:36:54 pm
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs  i  turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed     up my dinner.


This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|

Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports Say
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.

That's great news. He must have lost the Koch brother's money. I mean support.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 21, 2015, 06:22:28 pm
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs  i  turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed     up my dinner.


This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|

Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports Say
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.

That's great news. He must have lost the Koch brother's money. I mean support.

LOL.....spot on....it just took them a while to recognize a loser... |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 22, 2015, 03:11:21 pm
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/ButYeah/Political%20Crap/803accb6baa8a8b592e10c86b805680f_zpsahat6mlt.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 22, 2015, 03:15:15 pm
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12019883_1232303896795290_1969871393944758577_n.jpg?oh=e7a5e341acb3209b4e54f5e1b7ef100c&oe=56A713D9)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 22, 2015, 07:16:14 pm
A Lump of Trump.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 22, 2015, 09:05:56 pm
abf
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 22, 2015, 11:14:30 pm
 http://www.zazzle.ca/trump_mussolini_separated_at_birth_anti_trump_button-145238632438649074
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 22, 2015, 11:22:00 pm
WTF
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 23, 2015, 01:33:38 pm
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)

That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 23, 2015, 03:44:45 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12043107_1220965571263767_3973660496883178159_n.jpg?oh=3fc0028a12f590bd0ee0f02dea36518b&oe=56A7CCF8)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 23, 2015, 03:55:53 pm
That hats big enough that it might even fit Trump's  swollen head.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on September 23, 2015, 06:48:18 pm
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)

That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.

The BBC had this report of where Exxon kept around 20 scientists funded so long as they would simply "muddy up" any climate change data.  You know, the old "not all scientists are in agreement" BS.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 23, 2015, 08:37:05 pm
Sounds like the cigarette companies.

Reminds me of the funny movie "Thank you for smoking".
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 24, 2015, 06:53:28 am
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....

(http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/X/y/5/obama-birthday-which-is-it.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 24, 2015, 06:53:56 am
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/26/article-2284756-184D6057000005DC-614_634x480.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 24, 2015, 02:53:53 pm
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 24, 2015, 03:18:23 pm
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.

I think he's doing a fine job....considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess....which by the way has done absolutely nothing since being voted in at the last election....nada..nil..nothing...zip...zilch...yada yada....

oh wait, they voted again to repeal the ACA for the umpteenth billionith time....we used to call that a 'one trick pony'....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 24, 2015, 03:22:23 pm
Quote
considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess.

Correction: intentional sabotage of the country's prospects for perceived political gain
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 24, 2015, 03:25:26 pm
Quote
considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess.

Correction: intentional sabotage of the country's prospects for perceived political gain


Bingo !...... |^|    I was being gentle... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 24, 2015, 09:52:39 pm
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.

I think he's doing a fine job....considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess....which by the way has done absolutely nothing since being voted in at the last election....nada..nil..nothing...zip...zilch...yada yada....

oh wait, they voted again to repeal the ACA for the umpteenth billionith time....we used to call that a 'one trick pony'....

The ACA which had to be passed to find out what was in it and barely passed with a democrat led house.

JV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.
We can agree though on the majority of the "republicans" voted in. Especially the likes of Boehner, McConnell, McCain, Graham et al.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 24, 2015, 09:57:49 pm
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)

That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.

So Exxon et al used their own money to get scientists to "think" a certain way.
Unlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"

Follow the money Bill.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/05/top-mit-scientist-govt-funded-climate-science-promotes-alarmism/

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on September 25, 2015, 12:35:41 am
Most countries feared us before,now they are  running all over us.

Paranoid nonsense.   
Let me guess,you're a prepper too.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 25, 2015, 03:03:38 am
Quote
JV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.

Probably wrong, but still way better than the alternative!

-----------------------------
Quote
Unlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"

This is completely stupid. Research funding is diverse in its sources and way more competitive than the business world. Much of it is private funds uninformed person.

Where did you get that from? Brain damaged Rush? Lying Breitbart?


------------------------------
Quote
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne

Sad, Sad, Sad! Do you ever do anything except go to these crappy sites?
This is an obvious hack job. This guy was caught hiding his payoffs form the oil industry, in violation of the submission rules to several journals. Rules made to prevent this kind of crooked behavior.

Follow the money yourself fool!!!
These are pathetic arguments only worthy of:
- intellectual wimps who are afraid of looking data in the face because it might contradict their sad beliefs, or
- of companies whose profits are endangered by the data and
- corrupt politicians that have been bought by those companies and the Kock Bros.

Its kind of sad how you are being blindly led around by your nose like this. Wake up!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 10:37:08 am
WASHINGTON (AP) ? In a stunning move, House Speaker John Boehner informed fellow Republicans on Friday that he would resign from Congress at the end of October, giving up his top leadership post and his seat in the House in the face of hardline conservative opposition.

The 13-term Ohio Republican shocked his GOP caucus early Friday morning when he announced his decision in a closed-door session. It came one day after a high point of Boehner's congressional career, a historic speech by Pope Francis to Congress at Boehner's request.

A focus of conservatives' complaints, Boehner "just does not want to become the issue," said Rep. John Mica, R-Fla. "Some people have tried to make him the issue both in Congress and outside," Mica said.

Conservatives have demanded that any legislation to keep the government operating past next Wednesday's deadline strip Planned Parenthood of government funds, an argument rejected by the more pragmatic lawmakers. The dispute has threatened Boehner's speakership and roiled the GOP caucus.

Some conservatives welcomed his announcement.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 11:05:19 am
Quote
JV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.

Probably wrong, but still way better than the alternative!

-----------------------------
Quote
Unlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"

This is completely stupid. Research funding is diverse in its sources and way more competitive than the business world. Much of it is private funds uninformed person.

Where did you get that from? Brain damaged Rush? Lying Breitbart?


------------------------------
Quote
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne

Sad, Sad, Sad! Do you ever do anything except go to these crappy sites?
This is an obvious hack job. This guy was caught hiding his payoffs form the oil industry, in violation of the submission rules to several journals. Rules made to prevent this kind of crooked behavior.

Follow the money yourself fool!!!
These are pathetic arguments only worthy of:
- intellectual wimps who are afraid of looking data in the face because it might contradict their sad beliefs, or
- of companies whose profits are endangered by the data and
- corrupt politicians that have been bought by those companies and the Kock Bros.

Its kind of sad how you are being blindly led around by your nose like this. Wake up!

Bill what is sad is you are so jaded in your thinking. I have followed the money. Most of, if not all of the funding comes from those with something to gain.

And George Soros isn't corrupting politicians for his agenda?

If the libs don't like a scientist's views they "discredit" him. If he had gone along with the BS he probably would be heading it up.

Bill, they got you. Hook. Line. And sinker.

Drink up buddy.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2014/01/02/dark-money-funds-to-promote-global-warming-alarmism-dwarf-warming-denier-research/

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=23246

And BTW where you say "probably wrong" I went to the government site and got the figures. But alas you won't actually do any research yourself.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 25, 2015, 11:15:34 am
Quote
Bill what is sad is you are so jaded in your thinking. I have followed the money. Most of, if not all of the funding comes from those with something to gain.

And George Soros isn't corrupting politicians for his agenda?

If the libs don't like a scientist's views they "discredit" him. If he had gone along with the BS he probably would be heading it up.

Bill, they got you. Hook. Line. And sinker.

Drink up buddy.

Easy to say, but backed up by nothing!

Some research! Your deceptive articles (and probably the news ones too) didn't even mention what he was accused of.
That's great journalism!

By the way, the guy discredited himself, just like you have destroyed your own credibility.

Your ignorance is showing again, Mr. Educated.
You should have at least educated yourself on how to make rational judgements.
Then you might get out of your bubble of ill-informed ignorance.

I see you're still unable to give any kind of summary about the the links you post.
Do you even read that crap?
I think not. No normal person would want a link to such embarrassing delusions.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 11:45:00 am
Sure Bill. No one is attacking the "deniers"

Face it they got you.

Hook.

Line.

Sinker.

So sad. So very sad.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/21007-senator-prosecute-climate-realists-under-anti-mafia-rico-law
Quote
When former senior NASA climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer referred last year to vicious climate alarmists as ?global warming Nazis? who threaten humanity, he may have been closer to the truth than even he realized at the time. Writing in the Washington Post last week, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) called on the Obama administration to use the anti-gangster Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) to persecute those who cast doubt on the increasingly discredited man-made global-warming theory ? a theory that just four in 10 Americans believe, but that underpins a wide array of statist and globalist scheming at the national and global levels.

A U.S. senator wants to use federal organized crime laws against skeptics of man-made global warming. Nothing says desperation quite like a politician hoping to criminalize a difference of opinion.
In a Washington Post op-ed, Democratic Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse charges in against what he calls "the climate denial network." This group, he says, is behind a "a massive and sophisticated campaign to mislead the American people about the environmental harm caused by carbon pollution." His solution? Prosecute the network with "the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO."


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/060315-755598-sheldon-whitehouse-wants-to-use-rico-act-to-prosecute-deniers.htm#ixzz3mlm6OmCz
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

The "science" is so settled that if you disagree they want to lock you up. Twenty scientist want Obama to do just that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 11:54:58 am
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.

""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 12:22:45 pm
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....

Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on September 25, 2015, 12:48:12 pm
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....

Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....

+1
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:18:49 pm
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....

Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....

You mean following the Obama lead don't you. Maybe now they can get Obama stopped from his crazy crap and get this economy and country rolling again. If only McConnell would resign. <<sigh>>
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:27:08 pm
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.

""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""

Bill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.

The truth is if these "scientists" were to argue against CC you know for a fact that funding would be cut off.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/new-inquisition-punish-climate-change-deniers/



http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/jailed-for-scientific-dissent-20-climate-scientists-call-for-rico-investigation-of-climate-skeptics.html

Quote
Dear President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren,

As you know, an overwhelming majority of climate scientists are convinced about the potentially serious adverse effects of human-induced climate change on human health, agriculture, and biodiversity. We applaud your efforts to regulate emissions and the other steps you are taking. Nonetheless, as climate scientists we are exceedingly concerned that America?s response to climate change ? indeed, the world?s response to climate change ? is insufficient. The risks posed by climate change, including increasing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and increasing ocean acidity ? and potential strategies for addressing them ? are detailed in the Third National Climate Assessment (2014), Climate Change Impacts in the United States. The stability of the Earth?s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth?s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world?s poorest people.

We appreciate that you are making aggressive and imaginative use of the limited tools available to you in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. One additional tool ? recently proposed by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse ? is a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) investigation of corporations and other organizations that have knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, as a means to forestall America?s response to climate change. The actions of these organizations have been extensively documented in peerreviewed academic research (Brulle, 2013) and in recent books including: Doubt is their Product (Michaels, 2008), Climate Cover-Up (Hoggan & Littlemore, 2009), Merchants of Doubt (Oreskes & Conway, 2010), The Climate War (Pooley, 2010), and in The Climate Deception Dossiers (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015). We strongly endorse Senator Whitehouse?s call for a RICO investigation.

The methods of these organizations are quite similar to those used earlier by the tobacco industry. A RICO investigation (1999 to 2006) played an important role in stopping the tobacco industry from continuing to deceive the American people about the dangers of smoking. If corporations in the fossil fuel industry and their supporters are guilty of the misdeeds that have been documented in books and journal articles, it is imperative that these misdeeds be stopped as soon as possible so that America and the world can get on with the critically important business of finding effective ways to restabilize the Earth?s climate, before even more lasting damage is done.

Sincerely,

Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA

Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA

Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ

Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD

William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD

Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO T.N.

Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL

Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL

Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL

Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX

Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY

Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY

Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY

Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 01:32:38 pm
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....

Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....

You mean following the Obama lead don't you. Maybe now they can get Obama stopped from his crazy crap and get this economy and country rolling again. If only McConnell would resign. <<sigh>>

Gee..what do you recommend .....'Trickle down' economics???.....or raise the church's tiff's....??? ....seriously tho, if you'd put your hate of the President aside, you'd have more of a chance to see reality.     
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 01:33:39 pm
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.

""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""

Bill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.

The truth is if these "scientists" were to argue against CC you know for a fact that funding would be cut off.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/new-inquisition-punish-climate-change-deniers/



http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/jailed-for-scientific-dissent-20-climate-scientists-call-for-rico-investigation-of-climate-skeptics.html

Quote
Dear President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren,

As you know, an overwhelming majority of climate scientists are convinced about the potentially serious adverse effects of human-induced climate change on human health, agriculture, and biodiversity. We applaud your efforts to regulate emissions and the other steps you are taking. Nonetheless, as climate scientists we are exceedingly concerned that America?s response to climate change ? indeed, the world?s response to climate change ? is insufficient. The risks posed by climate change, including increasing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and increasing ocean acidity ? and potential strategies for addressing them ? are detailed in the Third National Climate Assessment (2014), Climate Change Impacts in the United States. The stability of the Earth?s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth?s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world?s poorest people.

We appreciate that you are making aggressive and imaginative use of the limited tools available to you in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. One additional tool ? recently proposed by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse ? is a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) investigation of corporations and other organizations that have knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, as a means to forestall America?s response to climate change. The actions of these organizations have been extensively documented in peerreviewed academic research (Brulle, 2013) and in recent books including: Doubt is their Product (Michaels, 2008), Climate Cover-Up (Hoggan & Littlemore, 2009), Merchants of Doubt (Oreskes & Conway, 2010), The Climate War (Pooley, 2010), and in The Climate Deception Dossiers (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015). We strongly endorse Senator Whitehouse?s call for a RICO investigation.

The methods of these organizations are quite similar to those used earlier by the tobacco industry. A RICO investigation (1999 to 2006) played an important role in stopping the tobacco industry from continuing to deceive the American people about the dangers of smoking. If corporations in the fossil fuel industry and their supporters are guilty of the misdeeds that have been documented in books and journal articles, it is imperative that these misdeeds be stopped as soon as possible so that America and the world can get on with the critically important business of finding effective ways to restabilize the Earth?s climate, before even more lasting damage is done.

Sincerely,

Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA

Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA

Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA

Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ

Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD

William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD

Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO T.N.

Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL

Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL

Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL

Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX

Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY

Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY

Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY

Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT

A masterful cut and paste job...... w!w....wonderful.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:37:23 pm
Jon, all I was doing was saving Bill from having to go to the link. Nothing was edited out nor added in by me. As far as I can tell this is the actual letter.

See what I get for being nice.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 01:39:26 pm
Jon, all I was doing was saving Bill from having to go to the link. Nothing was edited out nor added in by me. As far as I can tell this is the actual letter.

See what I get for being nice.


Nice??....naw, that wasn't your intent...was it?  |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 25, 2015, 01:54:59 pm
If the Tea Party and their ilk were in power would destroy the economy. Check out Kansas.

Plus, their philosophy is UnAmerican! They should be back to the country they or their ancestors came from.



Quote
Bill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.

Sorry Dude. I don't even know what think progress is.
WRT the climate denier clown, I got my information on him several weeks or months ago from Science magazine (also not a government thing, just like almost all journals) among other journals.

Your arguments are pathetic and you are now just saying what I say back. To paraphrase you: "Na, Na, Na". Pretty lame.
Also disingenuous and demonstrating a lack of any real thought.

You are really classic case of someone who has to feel they are a victim so they don't have too confront their inability to make any sense of their positions.

It sounds like you think THE WHOLE WORLD is in a CONSPIRACY against what ever group it is you support.
Can't you get anything outside of the deluded world to support your views?

I see you still can't make any statement of your own about the links you post.
Unable to make any sense of their blather? It might be difficult for you but I think your just too wimpy. Stand up for the arguments you post.


Maybe you like the way Exxon works. If so come out and say it instead of posting lies you don't want to explain or are incapable of explaining.

Here is something that might warm your heart:
Johnson and Johnson want to argue that they have a corporate right of free speech to ignore FDA rule about what they can tell doctors ad patients so they foist on them drugs inappropriate for their conditions and better market drugs for kids that can give teenage boys large breasts in about 5% of cases.
Another case of bad government, huh?
Be careful of what you wish for!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on September 25, 2015, 02:10:37 pm
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check....

This is so true.  I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 25, 2015, 04:11:02 pm
Quote
This is so true.  I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.

I think you are right Liz.
I would not be surprised to see this lead to the dissolution of the Republican Party.
The Tea Party takes over Republican control in the House and does more stupid things that pisses off everyone except themselves.
The normals in the party split either after they lose the next election, or out of self preservation, before then and create a new party distinct from both the Democrats and the Republicans. Similar to Lincoln's election before the Civil War.

The Tea Party would be freed up to do their stuff and freek everyone else out.

This could be good for the country in that they will expose themselves as what they really are and we will have the chance for shall have a chance for "a new birth of freedom" from their negative and bigoted ways.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 25, 2015, 04:14:34 pm
I think I have figured out G:

Against a lot of stuff, apparently for nothing he is willing to stand up for.
Or maybe he just can't articulate the ideas.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 04:22:36 pm
Quote
This is so true.  I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.

I think you are right Liz.
I would not be surprised to see this lead to the dissolution of the Republican Party.
The Tea Party takes over Republican control in the House and does more stupid things that pisses off everyone except themselves.
The normals in the party split either after they lose the next election, or out of self preservation, before then and create a new party distinct from both the Democrats and the Republicans. Similar to Lincoln's election before the Civil War.

The Tea Party would be freed up to do their stuff and freek everyone else out.

This could be good for the country in that they will expose themselves as what they really are and we will have the chance for shall have a chance for "a new birth of freedom" from their negative and bigoted ways.

I can see that happening, Bill. The more 'moderate' members of each party have a lot in common ....and they would be more in tune to what the people are really asking for in policies. Everyone won't agree among them for sure, but they are much more likely to share a dialogue of compromise that just doesn't exist now. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 26, 2015, 07:22:10 am
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Borowitz-Boehner-Shocker1-690.jpg)

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?House Speaker John Boehner announced that he would resign as Speaker and leave Congress in October, but said that he would continue repealing Obamacare from his home in Ohio.

Explaining his decision, Boehner told reporters, ?A lot of the Speaker?s job is administrative, which is time-consuming and tiring. In retirement, I?ll have more time for what I really love: repealing Obamacare.?

Boehner said that he plans to begin every day with a good breakfast, some exercise, and a vote to repeal Obamacare before lunch.

?No one knows how much time one is allotted on this planet,? Boehner, striking a somber tone, said. ?But if the Lord above grants me good health, I will repeal Obamacare thousands of times before my journey ends.?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 26, 2015, 11:49:04 am
This is well thought out, clearly written and worth the three or four minutes of your time it will take to read:

Pope Francis is scaring the hell out of conservatives. Here?s the real reason why

It isn't just that conservatives disagree with the pontiff's politics. He threatens something even more fundamental



(http://media.salon.com/2015/09/pope_francis9.jpg)

Republican legislators who attended Pope Francis? address to Congress were apparently relieved that he didn?t threaten them with fire and brimstone, and that he said that human activity is causing ?environmental deterioration,? rather than using the dreaded words ?climate change? or ?global warming.? What remains clear, however, is that they won?t listen to anyone about this subject ? not the overwhelming majority of scientists, not economists, not public policy analysts, and not the world?s most famous religious leader. As Marsha Blackburn, who ranks second on the House Energy Committee, declared, in connection with the pope?s address, ?I don?t think you will see me being persuaded.?

All of this raises an interesting question: Why exactly are the Republicans so determined to ignore reality? Why won?t they listen to anyone? The answer is actually simple: The reality of climate change demonstrates that progressives are right and they are wrong. Not just wrong about the effect of human activity on the environment, but wrong about their basic approach to the problems of the modern world.

Republican ideology is based on the idea of freedom for capitalists (another concern voiced by Pope Francis). For progressives, freedom involves the ability of ordinary people to express themselves, to choose their own level of religious observance and, increasingly, to receive the education and healthcare that they need to function in modern society. For conservatives, it means the ability of property owners and large corporations to use their economic power any way they wish, to determine exactly how they will treat their employees and what they will say to the consumers who depend on the products they produce.

Americans have rejected this approach for over 100 years, perhaps since the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt. We insist that the way large business enterprises deal with their employees and their customers must be regulated. More recently, we have insisted that the impact of these enterprises on the environment needs to be regulated as well, and that they cannot be permitted to pour poison into our waters and fumes into our air at will.

Recognizing the reality of climate change will necessarily lead to further forms of regulation. That reality emphasizes what physical and social scientists have come to recognize in recent years: that the most recent geological era (usually called the holocene) has ended, and that we are now in an entirely new situation, often described as the anthropocene ? the era of human domination. We now decide whether plant and animal species survive or go extinct, we control the drainage patterns of the lakes and rivers, we determine the extent of the forests and the grasslands. Now it?s become clear that we are decisively affecting the basic climate of the Earth ? the temperature of the air and of the seas, the patterns of atmospheric and oceanic currents, the size of the polar ice caps, the frequency of violent storms, and the general habitability our the only place where we will ever live. The indelible image that our conquest of space has given us ? that of our planet as a small, blue and white ball turning in a void ? carries an important message. Because of our technology, we truly hold the Earth in the palm of our hand.

All this means that conservatives are simply wrong. We?ve gone past the point where the large enterprises that determine the health of the economy, our working people, our environment, and now our planet, can be left to do what they wish. Some types of regulation are undoubtedly better than others. Policy analysts may be correct in their recent enthusiasm for more subtle approaches, which rely on inducement, rather more obvious ones that makes use of threats. But we must regulate, we must exercise control over the awesome powers that modern technology has placed in our hands.

People don?t like to admit that they are wrong, however. Children stamp their feet or burst into tears. Adults concoct bizarre conspiracy theories (tens of thousands of scientists, from all over the world, have joined together to perpetrate a hoax), engage in outright denials in the face of overwhelming evidence (Marsha Blackburn says that someone ? she won?t say who ? told her that the Earth is getting cooler) and insult anyone who tells them something they don?t want to hear (even if that person is the leader of a religion they?ve been touting as the truth for decades). But the conservatives are wrong ? wrong about climate change and wrong about their entire approach to governing our nation. It?s time for everyone else to stop listening to them.

Edward L. Rubin is Professor of Law and Political Science at Vanderbilt University. He is the author of ?The Heatstroke Line,? a new novel about the decline of the United States in a future where global warming has taken hold. For more see edwardrubin.com

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/26/pope_francis_is_scaring_the_hell_out_of_conservatives_heres_the_real_reason_why/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 26, 2015, 02:00:43 pm
Makes sense to me!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on September 26, 2015, 02:29:08 pm
The Pope is a wonderful man.  He helped the liberals more than the conservatives in his address to congress.  Y'all may think differently about him after his talk to the World Meeting of Families later today.  He has said out loud that he is not a leftist. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 26, 2015, 02:52:23 pm
The Pope is a wonderful man.  He helped the liberals more than the conservatives in his address to congress.  Y'all may think differently about him after his talk to the World Meeting of Families later today.  He has said out loud that he is not a leftist.

I have no issue with the subject of any of his speeches. He's not political in his talks. He's merely trying to tell us all to wake up.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 12:57:13 pm
874
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 27, 2015, 01:09:58 pm
874


OH NO, GRAPHS !!!!....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh     
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 27, 2015, 01:51:40 pm
874

You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.

If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 07:25:28 pm
874

You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.

If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".

Bill if you understood graphs you would see you truly don't need a Y-axis zero. While some do have it these are trending graphs. And all the trends with the current occupant in the White House are not good. I fully realize I am not proficient with how to lie with statistics. That's the liberal's forte. In fact it seems they wrote the book.

You can go research for yourself what a trending graph is.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 27, 2015, 09:11:09 pm
Trend graphs are visually deceptive because they remove any sense of proportion. You could take any vanishingly small change in some number and make it look as big (or small) as you want.
Its something businesses do a lot to get your money (or politicians do to get your vote). 
Guess you swallowed another one! Yum.

"How to lie with statistics" (http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728) is a classic little book (first published in 1954) about how people abuse statistics and the display of data and how to recognize it. Its short and cheap. I read it when I was in Jr. High school. You could probably get through it too.
Its mental self dense. something you could use. Seriously dude.

I guess this what happens when cherry picking alone needs an assist.


Quote
That's the liberal's forte.
How come you are using one from one of you wingnut websites?
Does that mean you and your website are liberals? Hope not.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 09:43:14 pm
874

You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.

If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".
Bill, which ones do you consider "visually deceptive"?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 28, 2015, 11:31:11 am
Two thirds of them, based on what I already said.

I am surprised you could not figure it out yourself.

I would also question data choices, considering the source and the poor legibility.
This is not worthy of much consideration.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 28, 2015, 12:30:33 pm
Two thirds of them, based on what I already said.

I am surprised you could not figure it out yourself.

I would also question data choices, considering the source and the poor legibility.
This is not worthy of much consideration.
Well Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.

So let's explain a couple of the graphs Bill.

Food stamps. While there were ups and downs on the dollars spent on the program since 1968 (give or take a year or two) It has, since 2007 skyrocketed. Up until that time it was below $30b and now stands at about $75b. Trend seems obvious and even if we had no 0 Y axis should be pretty self evident.

Federal Debt as a percentage of the GDP. In 1981 it was at $30% of GDP. Now it's over 100%.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GFDEGDQ188S

Labor Force participation. Currently stands at 62.6%
Bill, that means that 37.4% of those that could be working have dropped off the roles and are not counted in unemployment.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Median Income. Hey it's down. Quite a bit.
https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/

Home Ownership? Yep. It's down also

http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/qtr215/hown215.png

Rentals? Same

http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/qtr215/rvr215.png

Bill more data here.
http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html

Federal debt?  Well that should be a given that it has gone up.
But here is a real time clock

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 28, 2015, 01:17:48 pm
Quote
Well Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.

If you don't understand that you can just grab a bit of data and make a graph to show some particular point, your part of the problem.
As I said before I no longer think your sources are worth the time to go look at them. Your credibility is shot.

I have wasted enough time on that already.
I've got more important things to do. I'm taking out a different kind of garbage.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 28, 2015, 02:22:59 pm
Quote
Well Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.

If you don't understand that you can just grab a bit of data and make a graph to show some particular point, your part of the problem.
As I said before I no longer think your sources are worth the time to go look at them. Your credibility is shot.

I have wasted enough time on that already.
I've got more important things to do. I'm taking out a different kind of garbage.

Bill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?

But like you said, you can just grab some data and make up graphs etc. Pretty much what they do with climate change.

Some more Kool Aid Bill?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 02:40:40 pm
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage.  The middle class is disappearing.  I work.  I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle.  It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.

The other stuff, I don't know about.  I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on.  It might explain some graph.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 28, 2015, 02:49:19 pm
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage.  The middle class is disappearing.  I work.  I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle.  It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.

The other stuff, I don't know about.  I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on.  It might explain some graph.

I'm not sure 'G' has figured that out yet, Liz. ....and don't forget retired folks....the 'boomers' aren't all rich folks either, and while SS helps, but is not enough...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 03:23:04 pm
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on September 28, 2015, 03:51:21 pm
Quote
Bill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?

Blah, blah, blah ...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 28, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage.  The middle class is disappearing.  I work.  I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle.  It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.

The other stuff, I don't know about.  I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on.  It might explain some graph.

Liz, food stamps and unemployment are up do to the raging economy we have.

Yeah sure.

When we have a good economy we normally wind up with a shortage of good workers. When that has happened in the past minimum wage became irrelevant. Employers wanting good, talented workers would fight for them with their wallets. Good salaries. Signing bonuses. (Yes, it happens in the private sector not just sports) Benefits, etc. The only people that don't benefit as much are those with minimum wage skills. You don't want a minimum wage job? (well during a decent economy anyway) Don't come with minimum wage skills. Can't really afford to pay a person $15/hour to clean the shitter. In a good economy Liz, minimum wage jobs are there so that the kid on summer break from school can get a bit of experience in the working environment. And maybe some spending money for gas and a burger for his date.

Seattle increased their minimum. Employment did go up too. Man hours worked however remained unchanged. That's one reason I no longer trust government employment rates. Firing one full timer and hiring four part timers is a net 3 job increase yet no more hours are paid.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 28, 2015, 06:09:35 pm
Quote
Bill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?

Blah, blah, blah ...

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 28, 2015, 06:30:33 pm
"G".....merely resorting to semantics isn't going to make you right....

The freak'n middle class is about gone.......you can't blame it directly on the economy or unemployment....the simple fact is wages had become static while the big boys made more and more money for themselves...one of the culprits is outsourcing...note the below article is from 2003 when Bush was in office......and it started way before that.....
  In lieu of the typical wingnut bashing of the Liberal's......why haven't you offered a legitimate solution instead of just popping out Fox entertainment jive.....you bounce from one 'straw man' argument to another, never answering anything...or making a point.....what does the 'G' really think.....surely you have a thought of your own???.....or do you..??

A Statistic That's Missing: Jobs That Moved Overseas       

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/us/a-statistic-that-s-missing-jobs-that-moved-overseas.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/us/a-statistic-that-s-missing-jobs-that-moved-overseas.html)

 The job market finally showed some life in September, but not enough to sidetrack a growing debate over why employment has failed to rebound nearly two years after the last recession ended. The debate intrudes increasingly on election politics, but in all the heated back and forth, an essential statistic is missing: the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.

The Labor Department, in its numerous surveys of employers and employees, has never tried to calculate this trade-off. But the ''offshoring'' of work has become so noticeable lately that experts in the private sector are now trying to quantify it.

By these initial estimates, at least 15 percent of the 2.81 million jobs lost in America since the decline began have reappeared overseas. Productivity improvements at home -- sustaining output with fewer workers -- account for the great bulk of the job loss. But the estimates being made suggest that the work sent overseas has been enough to raise the unemployment rate by four-tenths of a percentage point or more, to the present 6.1 percent.

That leakage fuels the political debate. The Bush administration is pushing the Chinese to allow their currency to rise in value, thus increasing the dollar value of wages in that country, a deterrent to locating work abroad. The Democrats agree, but some also call for trade restrictions, and they attack Republicans for cutting from the budget funds to retrain and support laid-off workers in the United States.

While most of the lost jobs are in manufacturing or in telephone call centers, lately the work sent abroad has climbed way up the skills ladder to include workers like aeronautical engineers, software designers and stock analysts as China, Russia and India, with big stocks of educated workers, merge rapidly into the global labor market.

''All of a sudden you have a huge influx of skilled people; that is a very disruptive process,'' said Craig R. Barrett, chief executive of Intel, the computer chip manufacturer.

Intel itself has maintained a fairly steady 60 percent of its employees in the United States. But in the past year or so, it has added 1,000 software engineers in China and India, doing work that in the past might have been done by people hired in the United States. ''To be competitive, we have to move up the skill chain overseas,'' Mr. Barrett said.

The trade-off in jobs is not one for one. The work done here by one person often requires two or three less-efficient workers overseas. Even so, given the very low wages, the total saving for an American company can be as much 50 percent for each job shifted, even allowing for the extra cost of transportation, communication and other expenses that would not be needed if the work was done in the United States. That is the message of the nation's management consultants, who are encouraging their corporate clients to take advantage of the multiplying opportunities overseas.

'' 'Encourage' is a difficult way to put it,'' said Harold Sirkin, a senior vice president at the Boston Consulting Group. ''What we are basically saying is that if your competitors are doing this, you will be at a disadvantage if you don't do it too.''

The estimates of job loss from offshoring are all over the lot. They are back-of-the-envelope calculations at best, inferred from trade data and assumptions about the number of American workers needed to produce goods and services now coming from abroad, or no longer exported to a growing consumer market in, say, China.

Among economists and researchers, the high-end estimate comes from Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com, who calculates that 995,000 jobs have been lost overseas since the last recession began in March 2001. That is 35 percent of the total decline in employment since then. While most of the loss is in manufacturing, about 15 percent is among college-trained professionals.

Boeing, for example, employs engineers at a design center in Moscow, while having shrunk its engineering staff in Seattle. Morgan Stanley, the investment firm, is adding jobs in Bombay, but not in New York -- employing Indian engineers as well as analysts who collect corporate data and scrutinize balance sheets for stock market specialists in New York.

Near the low end of the job-loss estimates sit John McCarthy, research analyst at Forrester Research Inc., and Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insights. For them the loss is 500,000 to 600,000 jobs over the past 30 months, again mostly in manufacturing -- with Mr. McCarthy suggesting that the 600,000 might turn out to be 800,000. His research focuses more on the future: Starting in January 2000 and running through 2015, globalization of American production will have eliminated 3.3 million jobs at home, he estimates.

Some are trying niche estimates. Roshi Sood, a government analyst at the Gartner Group, for example, estimates roughly that state government cutbacks have pushed overseas the work of 3,400 people once employed in the United States, either on public payrolls or on the payrolls of companies that contract with state government.

In Indiana, for example, the Department of Workforce Development recently chose an Indian company, TCS America, to maintain and update its computer programs, using high-speed telecommunications to carry out the contract. The TCS bid was $8 million below those submitted by two American competitors, Mr. Sood said.

Now political groups are offering estimates. The Progressive Policy Institute, which is affiliated with the Democratic Party, will soon publish its calculation of manufacturing jobs shifted overseas since George W. Bush took office just before the recession began, said Rob Atkinson, a vice president. Not surprisingly, the estimate -- imputed from trade data -- is on the high side: 800,000 jobs lost to overseas production.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 06:34:55 pm
Bullshit.  I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker.  When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers.  Their pay has not gone up!  I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage.  Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet.  It ain't right.

I knew that I should have ignored this thread.  I tried and failed.   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on September 28, 2015, 06:49:52 pm
Bullshit.  I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker.  When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers.  Their pay has not gone up!  I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage.  Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet.  It ain't right.

I knew that I should have ignored this thread.  I tried and failed.

I thought my user name would make it obvious what I do for a living.

I am a printer. I started in the business setting hot type in the 70's. Linotype, ludlow. Heidelbergs. C&PI ran them all. Offset presses also. In fact the current fish house was my press room. Had an AB Dick 360 with a T-Head on for two color stuff. I would get home from running a press or doing graphic design at work then come home and run another press.
When I started working on Co Op in school MW was $2/hour. I negotiated $3/hour. Stayed there for 8 years. Our competitors tried to hire me away. When I left then returned on vacation my old boss offer3ed me his half of the company to come back. Alas Liz money isn't everything and I hated NY. But I would have been able to retire at 48.

No Liz it isn't right. So why do you keep voting in those that make it hard for companies to hire here?
I'm glad Oreo and Ford moved to Mexico. No US government taxing them to death. No asinine thug union either.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on September 28, 2015, 06:56:57 pm
Perhaps this thread needs to rest awhile.....??....


it's the same old back and forth anyway.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 07, 2015, 05:47:18 am
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12189696_10156218695770554_7699977080863085419_n.jpg?oh=9e11e98782b8a3c726713611ce8b83ff&oe=56BE4225)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on November 07, 2015, 06:17:01 am
Sums up the National Enquirer, oops, I mean Fox News perfectly.

The whole Obamacare BS makes me chuckle every time I hear it used.  Since the Affordable Care Act was modeled after Mitt Romney?s health care insurance reform laws passed in MA in 2006, shouldn't FOX own up and call it RomneyCare???  Or better yet, stop trying to spin it and muddy up the water and call it what it is..... the Affordable Care Act.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 09, 2015, 09:52:29 am
Carson: Loss of Keystone Leaves U.S. With No Place to Store Grain
By Andy Borowitz

(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Borowitz-Ben-Carson-Dire-Warning-320.jpg)

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Presidential candidate Ben Carson has issued a dire warning that President Obama?s cancellation of the Keystone Pipeline has left the United States with ?virtually no place to store grain.?

Without the massive pipeline, Carson told Fox News, the nation?s network of silos is woefully inadequate ?to store the bounty of grain that we soweth.?

Carson said that as President, he would seek additional places to store grain, such as ?the hollowed-out heads on Mt. Rushmore.?

?A nation?s greatness is measured by its ability to store grain,? he said. ?I will return America to its former greatness.?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 09, 2015, 03:52:32 pm
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12193357_10208396734302926_7988470905777465867_n.jpg?oh=b70bd8a4625947bc37a286a7c843ff58&oe=56B9D39A)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 10, 2015, 06:26:59 am
(http://aattp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ben-carson-knowlittle.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 15, 2015, 03:25:02 am
what's this untitled graph about.....data unlabeled..??

(http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com//index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7069.0;attach=2744;image)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 15, 2015, 03:58:32 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12227117_10153323558156275_2464621890941408584_n.png?oh=e33cf102867bd6180d319079468f0235&oe=56B7C462)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 19, 2015, 04:07:16 pm
LOLOLOLOLOL......

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12227646_958441067525094_1402069687789933086_n.jpg?oh=095dc87aa90068d2148f424382b2e73a&oe=56EA2689)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on November 19, 2015, 11:10:12 pm
That's pretty funny!

But sad that it is appropriate these days.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on November 20, 2015, 05:38:36 am
That's pretty funny!

I thought so too!  I was thinking along the lines of T-shirts where you could just substitute the name of your least favorite band...  LOL

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 21, 2015, 07:04:34 am
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12241348_992034517504403_8858311416467328377_n.jpg?oh=0afc83f8a64500621c4e4170ddafea75&oe=56ED5CAA)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: big b on November 21, 2015, 06:32:17 pm
Omg, that is so funny  ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on November 22, 2015, 11:34:07 am
There's nothing funny about ISIS.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: big b on November 22, 2015, 11:47:28 am
No not about ISIS, about the 72 virgins attacking them. I just found that hilarious.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on November 22, 2015, 01:06:14 pm
I liked that too, B.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on November 22, 2015, 01:57:47 pm
That part was funny.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 22, 2015, 06:52:54 pm
DES MOINES (The Borowitz Report)?In a major foreign-policy announcement on Wednesday, the Republican Presidential candidate Ben Carson unveiled a detailed plan to Google Syria.

Speaking in Iowa, the retired neurosurgeon told an audience of supporters, ?Any responsible policy on Syria must begin with a fact-finding mission, and such a mission must begin with Googling.?

He said that ?Google holds the key? to many questions about Syria. ?Where is it? Who lives there? How many square miles is it? These are all things that have to be pinned down,? he said.

Carson, who leads several Republican Presidential polls, said that while his search for answers would start with Google, he would ?not rule out? seeking information at Wikipedia and beyond. ?No Web site should be taken off the table at this time,? he said.

In closing, he said that he had ?no plans? to Google Egypt, since he was already extremely well versed in that nation?s history.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on November 23, 2015, 02:00:56 pm
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)  The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think?  Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 23, 2015, 02:03:01 pm
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)  The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think?  Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.

LOL.....+1
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 24, 2015, 09:30:52 am
Trump Tells Iowa Dairy Farmers He Has Cows 500 Times Bigger Than Theirs


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5069/1/16x9/800.jpg)

ARNOLDS PARK, IA?Appearing at a campaign event in the early primary state, real estate mogul and presidential candidate Donald Trump told an assembled group of dairy farmers Monday that his cows were 500 times bigger than theirs. ?Your cows are small and scrawny, and you should be embarrassed to milk them,? said Trump, adding that each of his cows was the size of ?at least? a dozen Cadillacs and had ?udders that?ll make your head spin.? ?No one raises dairy cows as gigantic or successful as I do; everyone knows that. My cattle are winners, and you people would be lucky to have them graze here.? Chatting with patrons at a diner later in the day, Trump reportedly said the apple pie was a disgrace and that his pies were a mile wide, with a perfect crust that made all the losers jealous.

http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-tells-iowa-dairy-farmers-he-has-cows-500-tim-50792
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on November 24, 2015, 03:08:42 pm
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)  The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think?  Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.

And the Dems? Two old people. One a liar and a thief the other a self proclaimed socialist who thinks all the worlds troubles are due to "global warming".
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 24, 2015, 03:42:00 pm
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)  The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think?  Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.

And the Dems? Two old people. One a liar and a thief the other a self proclaimed socialist who thinks all the worlds troubles are due to "global warming".


LOL....there's more than enough criticism to go around to all of them....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on November 24, 2015, 03:49:02 pm
I see nothing evil in being a democratic socialist.  I like Bernie's domestic policy.  He's all about income fairness.  Hillary has taken a whuppin' because she been so much in the public view.  She knows a heck of a lot more that anybody running about foreign policy.  I just wish she weren't such a hawk.  I would take either of them over the ignoramus or lunatic.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: big b on November 24, 2015, 07:30:54 pm
Trump Tells Iowa Dairy Farmers He Has Cows 500 Times Bigger Than Theirs


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5069/1/16x9/800.jpg)

ARNOLDS PARK, IA?Appearing at a campaign event in the early primary state, real estate mogul and presidential candidate Donald Trump told an assembled group of dairy farmers Monday that his cows were 500 times bigger than theirs. ?Your cows are small and scrawny, and you should be embarrassed to milk them,? said Trump, adding that each of his cows was the size of ?at least? a dozen Cadillacs and had ?udders that?ll make your head spin.? ?No one raises dairy cows as gigantic or successful as I do; everyone knows that. My cattle are winners, and you people would be lucky to have them graze here.? Chatting with patrons at a diner later in the day, Trump reportedly said the apple pie was a disgrace and that his pies were a mile wide, with a perfect crust that made all the losers jealous.

http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-tells-iowa-dairy-farmers-he-has-cows-500-tim-50792
I'd like to see that pie....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on November 24, 2015, 10:41:10 pm
I see nothing evil in being a democratic socialist.  I like Bernie's domestic policy.  He's all about income fairness.  Hillary has taken a whuppin' because she been so much in the public view.  She knows a heck of a lot more that anybody running about foreign policy.  I just wish she weren't such a hawk.  I would take either of them over the ignoramus or lunatic.

What is fair about confiscating money from those that work their ass off and giving it to someone that won't work? Liz take half your monthly income and give it to someone. Maybe a homeless vet.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on November 24, 2015, 11:47:26 pm
What is fair about corrupt congressmen sleazing undeserved tax cuts and government subsidies and giving it to some rich jerks that don't do real work? G take half your monthly income and give it to some rich guy. Or maybe an oil company.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on November 25, 2015, 05:53:57 am
If they are taking half of your money, you are simply not playing the game correctly.  They take about 20% of my money and spend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 25, 2015, 09:20:34 am
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/91cfe42d9923ec36de922f1c9cc835fd/tumblr_nybol36W0j1qa53wno1_640.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on November 25, 2015, 01:04:12 pm
Quote
spend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....

Its my opinion that the VA system should be front loaded with money to cover their people involved in their foreign military adventures before anyone is sent anywhere to be shot at, instead of hiding the expense of the whole thing (including direct military costs) like they did in Iraq.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 25, 2015, 03:05:46 pm
Quote
spend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....

Its my opinion that the VA system should be front loaded with money to cover their people involved in their foreign military adventures before anyone is sent anywhere to be shot at, instead of hiding the expense of the whole thing (including direct military costs) like they did in Iraq.

Yup, I agree...they made the PO put up 10yrs of retirement $$$'s....why not have the Defense Dept put up advance funds for the VA...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on November 25, 2015, 08:59:25 pm
What is fair about corrupt congressmen sleazing undeserved tax cuts and government subsidies and giving it to some rich jerks that don't do real work? G take half your monthly income and give it to some rich guy. Or maybe an oil company.
I'm not a socialist Bill. Besides the government has beaten me to it.

I'm all for term limits.

Rich jerks like every sports star and actor and "singer". Everybody bellyaches about a CEO running a large corporation employing thousands making 10 mil a year yet no talent Beyonce, West, Kardashian,et al or most pro sports player  make 50 mil and that's just fine.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on November 25, 2015, 09:20:29 pm
My two problems with this are:

1) The disproportionate political influence lots of money brings to the super rich and now to large corporations (the flip side is the lack of influence of the not rich),

and

2) The changing of tax laws so they accumulate and ever increasing amount (with no apparent limit) of national wealth.

The Republican party seems to be strongly in favor of this situation.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on November 26, 2015, 12:25:35 am
Term limits would curtail much of number  one.

Both parties are the problem in number two but alas you like to always blame the Republican. I can think of 36 companies Hussein "invested" our money in that went belly up or the taxpayer got the shaft.

You make the incorrect assumption that our wealth is like pie and everyone should get a piece. That is wrong. The US is more like a kitchen with an unlimited pantry. You have every opportunity to make your own pie.

Actually the Conservative wants to change our tax laws and lower tax rates. Especially for corporations. We are the highest. Lowering a companies tax burden would bring jobs back here to the US. It's been proven time and time again. Hell even Kennedy knew it.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 26, 2015, 06:20:46 am
(http://i.imgbox.com/C3rOU5at.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on November 26, 2015, 06:48:28 am
Could be the beginning of the end.  These type incidents remind me of a book I read back in school, On The Beach by author Nevil Shute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 26, 2015, 07:59:37 am
Could be the beginning of the end.  These type incidents remind me of a book I read back in school, On The Beach by author Nevil Shute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29)

Dennis

That's a great book....I, too, read it years ago....and a few times since......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 29, 2015, 06:19:33 am
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/4a00800a7ae8a74490ee299f470a041d/tumblr_nygzvaf4Yn1qd65vgo1_540.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 29, 2015, 06:34:30 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/danzcolorplus6526.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Second Hand Pat on November 29, 2015, 07:11:02 am
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/4a00800a7ae8a74490ee299f470a041d/tumblr_nygzvaf4Yn1qd65vgo1_540.jpg)

Aw geez...good one  ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on November 29, 2015, 07:17:27 am
What kills me is when the candidates are expected to answer "What would you do about Syria?" in a 30 second soundbite.  Like Bernie said, Syria is a mess inside a mess inside a mess....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 30, 2015, 03:11:35 pm
This is not good at all.........

........................
...........................

Turkey has begun a defacto blockade of Russian naval vessels, preventing transit through the Dardanelles and the Strait of Bosporus, between the Black Sea and Mediterranean.
According to the AIS tracking system for the movement of maritime vessels, only Turkish vessels are moving along the Bosphorus, and in the Dardanelles there is no movement of any shipping at all.
At the same time, both from the Black Sea, and from the Mediterranean Sea, there is a small cluster of ships under the Russian flag, just sitting and waiting. The image below shows the situation with the ships using the GPS transponder onboard each vessel:
In addition, shipping inside the Black Sea from Novorossiisk and Sevastopol in the direction of the Bosphorus, no Russian vessels are moving. This indirectly confirms the a CNN statement that Turkey may have blocked the movement of Russian ships on the Dardanelles and the Strait of Bosporus.
There is a Treaty specifically covering the use of these waterways by nations of the world. That Treaty is the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits.
It is a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus Straits and the Dardanelles and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention gives Turkey full control over the Straits and guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime. It restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. The terms of the convention have been the source of controversy over the years, most notably concerning the Soviet Union's military access to the Mediterranean Sea.
Signed on 20 July 1936 at the Montreux Palace in Switzerland, it permitted Turkey to remilitarise the Straits. It went into effect on 9 November 1936 and was registered in League of Nations Treaty Series on 11 December 1936. It is still in force today, with some amendments.
The Convention consists of 29 Articles, four annexes and one protocol. Articles 2?7 consider the passage of merchant ships. Articles 8?22 consider the passage of war vessels. The key principle of freedom of passage and navigation is stated in articles 1 and 2. Article 1 provides that "The High Contracting Parties recognize and affirm the principle of freedom of passage and navigation by sea in the Straits". Article 2 states that "In time of peace, merchant vessels shall enjoy complete freedom of passage and navigation in the Straits, by day and by night, under any flag with any kind of cargo."
The International Straits Commission was abolished, authorizing the full resumption of Turkish military control over the Straits and the refortification of the Dardanelles. Turkey was authorized to close the Straits to all foreign warships in wartime or when it was threatened by aggression; additionally, it was authorized to refuse transit from merchant ships belonging to countries at war with Turkey.
Turkey has now invoked its power, but has not publicly stated whether they are blocking Russian Naval Vessels because Turkey is "threatened with aggression" or whether Turkey considers itself to be "at war." Last week, Turkey shot down a Russian military jet over Syria and this has caused a major rift between the two nations.
This latest development of blockading Russian naval vessels is a massive and terrifyingly dangerous development. Blockading Russia and preventing its Black Sea fleet from traveling to the rest of the world, or back to its home port, is something that will not sit well with the Russians.
Earlier today, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the deployment of 150,000 Russian troops and equipment into Syria, but then ALSO ordered the deployment of 7,000 additional Russian Troops, tanks, rocket launchers and artillery, to the Russian Border of Turkey at Armenia, with orders to be "fully combat ready."

It is important to note two things:
1) Turkey is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as is the United States and most of Europe, AND;
2) Turkey took the first shot at Russia when they intentionally shot down a Russian jet last week.
It is important to remember these facts because, as a NATO member, Turkey can invoke Article 5 of the NATO Treaty which requires all NATO members to come to its defense if Turkey is "attacked." So if Russia decides to fight back against Turkey downing its military jet, the Turks might call NATO and claim they've been "attacked" thereby calling-up NATO forces to go to war against Russia.
It bears remembering, however, that Turkey shot first. Turkey was the nation which "attacked."
Before NATO and the world get dragged into a war between Russia and Turkey, the citizens of the world must be ready to remind our leaders that Turkey Shot First.
Why did the Turks shoot? Because Turkey has been allowing the terrorist group ISIS to sell the oil it has stolen from countries it is conquering. The oil is transported from the wells in countries where ISIS has seized power, is taken by truck to Turkey, and is then sold at cheap prices on the black market.
This black market selling results in over 1 Million dollars per DAY flowing into ISIS to keep it equipped and supplied for its ongoing terrorist activities. Only a fool would think that all this is going on through Turkey, without some Turkish officials having their hands out for money from the illegal oil sales. Put simply, Turkey appears to be in business with ISIS and Russia is harming that by attacking ISIS in Syria.
So Turkey shot down one of the Russian planes that was attacking ISIS. Russia is quite furious; with the Russian President stating the shoot down was "a stab in the back of Russia" and was carried out by "accomplices to terrorism."
It would be shocking if NATO were to defend Turkey under such circumstances because by its actions, Turkey is providing material support to the terrorist group ISIS. For NATO to defend that would make all of us accomplices to terrorism.
You can view REAL TIME SHIP INFO at the AIS Maritime web site, to see for yourselves that Russian ships are being held from transit.
The web site address is:

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:27/centery:40/zoom:9 (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:27/centery:40/zoom:9)

https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/587 (https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/587)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on November 30, 2015, 04:01:34 pm
It's a worrying situation indeed.  But Russia invaded their air space.  They warned the war plane many times before they shot it down.  Russia deny's this, but they deny everything.  So...in this case who was the aggressor?   Russia says it's bombing ISIS in Syria but we hear that they are bombing all the factions that appose Assad.

All the world leaders are in Paris for the climate change summit.  Thank God.  You know as well as I do that there will be important side discussions.  Nobody want's a 3rd world war.  Surely they will find a way to calm down the Turkey/Russia stand off.  I believe they will, but I'm an optimist.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on November 30, 2015, 04:24:22 pm
Well, who knows how true the situation really is....but I found this too...

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on November 30, 2015, 09:03:22 pm
Nothing to worry about in the ME. Our biggest threat, bigger than all this and ISIS is after all Global Climate Change.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 02:05:22 pm
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/2668c7e21c6cb73ef4d30b19fd2addcd/tumblr_ny2nmjAgEU1qkml81o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 06:42:38 pm
The really sad part is that our illustrious statesmen have been so pathetic that someone like Trump is even a consideration.  Our country and morals are simply for sale in D.C.  And a half price sale at that..... that's all our money is worth anymore.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 06:51:39 pm
The really sad part is that our illustrious statesmen have been so pathetic that someone like Trump is even a consideration.  Our country and morals are simply for sale in D.C.  And a half price sale at that..... that's all our money is worth anymore.

Dennis

You hit the nail on the head there Dennis....Our country deserves better than games being played involving any of our present, or our future leaders.
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 06, 2015, 07:24:07 pm
He's on NPR, too.  I can't blame the press for covering him,  He's tops in the polls.  It would be dishonest if they didn't cover him.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 07:36:09 pm
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.

You're exactly right Jon, it's ALL the cable news outlets.  I think Jon Stewart summed it up nicely when he called out CNN


Speaking of being called out, did you hear the President call out the congress tonight?  That should be a weekly occurrence until they get their finger out and start doing the job they signed up to do.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 07:45:15 pm
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.

You're exactly right Jon, it's ALL the cable news outlets.  I think Jon Stewart summed it up nicely when he called out CNN



Speaking of being called out, did you hear the President call out the congress tonight?  That should be a weekly occurrence until they get their finger out and start doing the job they signed up to do.

Dennis

I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.

At least now there is some movement on it. And impeachment proceedings may soon start. There are rumors anyway. Hopefully that will come to fruition.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 07:52:36 pm
8....you're dreaming....

Dennis, spot on.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 06, 2015, 07:57:29 pm
 



 

 
[/quote]

 

  And impeachment proceedings may soon start. There are rumors anyway. Hopefully that will come to fruition.
[/quote]

You are living in a fantasy world  ,snap out of it.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 07:58:02 pm
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.

Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan?  I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 08:30:51 pm
8....you're dreaming....

Dennis, spot on.....

I realize it's but a dream. The establishment Repubicans will never follow through on their promises. They disgust me. Hussein should have been impeached long ago.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 08:34:05 pm
8....you're dreaming....

Dennis, spot on.....

I realize it's but a dream. The establishment Repubicans will never follow through on their promises. They disgust me. Hussein should have been impeached long ago.

They are so divided among themselves that they're eroding from the middle out.......save your breath, the President will serve out his term....then you can mutter about Hillary.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 08:39:32 pm
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.

Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan?  I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).

Dennis

You do realize that not one Republican voted for HusseinCare right? And 34 democrats voted against it.

Even Romney said his plan wouldn't work nationwide. It needed to be on a state by state basis.

And the largest insurer is pulling out of HusseinCare.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 08:52:49 pm
I can't speak to this "HusseinCare" you mention, whatever that is, but the Affordable Health Care Act is definitely a step in the right direction.  We like to claim we are the greatest country, yet our health care is a joke when compared to the rest of the free world.  The only area where our health care comes out on top is for being the most expensive for the least effectual care given.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 06:04:38 am
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.

Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan?  I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).

Dennis

You do realize that not one Republican voted for HusseinCare right? And 34 democrats voted against it.

Even Romney said his plan wouldn't work nationwide. It needed to be on a state by state basis.

And the largest insurer is pulling out of HusseinCare.

..and why are some of the biggest insurers considering backing out?....it's because they can't make enough profit, the greedy idiots...plus them all being Repubs.....they and their lobbyists want one last shot across the bow(Obama) before the Repubs get run out of congress......Pepubs, etc..refused to offer, or compromise, anything to tweak the bill at all.....Repub Governors fought it tooth and nail, knowing that doing so tossing higher expenses on their state's population  .....and it's not about 'Health Care'....it's about hating a President.....

Many smaller insurance companies tried o form to take advantage of the ACA......too many failed because they weren't prepared, or had decent backing....when these started to fail ...the bigger companies were inundated with large enrollments....fact is...most these same folks left them because of their high rates....upon returning, the big insurers couldn't get those same rates back again....meaning..'Less profit'.....so they are screaming....

Well ain't that a bitch....LOL....trillions of dollars in business and the profits aren't enough...? If these same companies lobbyists get their buddy Repub's to get it repealed somehow.....the catastrophic costs they will incur absorbing everyone back will bury them.....but they must have a plan...sure ...their Repub friends in congress will vote them a bail out.....with our money...and the Insurer's will raise rates too.....the rich get richer, and the less well to do go without....folks will drop their insurance because they can't afford it.....thus putting the burden back on the public when they can't pay....it's a downward spiral that will effect hospitals, doctors, communities......healthcare will shrink for everyone.....except those nice rich folks that don't give a hoot about anything but a buck...
...and if they have their way.....social services will be nonexistent.......so I guess we're all expendable, huh...when we're all broke....we'll be disguarded..
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 06:21:58 am
(http://45.media.tumblr.com/0c8b1ca835d5170f92de7ef1aaef857a/tumblr_nyl494KsfR1rh844qo1_400.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 07:19:31 am
Great summation Jon.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 07:24:00 am
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 07:49:50 am
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.

I just looked up Ohio ACA... huh...not sure what's happening in your case???

...........
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html
...................
5 Years Later: How the Affordable Care Act is Working for Ohio

The Affordable Care Act is working to make health care more affordable, accessible, and high quality for the people of Ohio.

Better Options

Making health care more affordable and accessible through the Health Insurance Marketplaces: Through the Marketplace, Ohioans had the option of signing up for quality health coverage at a price they could afford. Whether they visited the simpler, faster and more intuitive website at HealthCare.gov or contacted the call center, they found more choices and competitive prices.

In Ohio, 234,341 consumers selected or were automatically re-enrolled in quality, affordable health insurance coverage through the Marketplace as of Feb. 22.  Nationwide, nearly 11.7 million consumers selected a plan or were automatically enrolled in Marketplace coverage.

Marketplace Signups and Tax Credits in Ohio:

    84 percent of Ohio consumers who were signed up qualified for an average tax credit of $244 per month through the Marketplace.
    41 percent of Ohio Marketplace enrollees obtained coverage for $100 or less after any applicable tax credits in 2015, and 82 percent had the option of doing so.
    In Ohio, consumers could choose from 16 issuers in the Marketplace in 2015 ? up from 12 in 2014.
    Ohio consumers could choose from an average of 54 health plans in their county for 2015 coverage ? up from 30 in 2014.
    79,436 consumers in Ohio under the age of 35 are signed up for Marketplace coverage (34 percent of plan selections in the state).  And 56,073 consumers 18 to 34 years of age (24 percent of all plan selections) are signed up for Marketplace coverage.

Ohio has received $1,000,000 in grants for research, planning, information technology development, and implementation of its Marketplace.

Open enrollment for 2015 coverage ended on Feb. 15, 2015. Open enrollment for 2016 coverage runs from November 1, 2015 to January 31, 2016.  Consumers should visit HealthCare.gov to see if they qualify for a Special Enrollment Period because of a life change like marriage, having a baby or losing other coverage.  Enrollment in Medicaid and the Children?s Health Insurance Program is open year round.

Reducing the number of uninsured Americans: Nationwide, since the Affordable Care Act?s coverage expansion began, about 16.4 million uninsured people have gained health insurance coverage - the largest reduction in the uninsured in four decades. And Gallup recently announced that the uninsured rate in Ohio in 2014 was 10.5 percent, down from 13.9 percent in 2013.

New coverage options for young adults: Under the health care law, if your plan covers children, you can now add or keep your children on your health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. Thanks to this provision, over 2.3 million young people who would otherwise have been uninsured have gained coverage nationwide.

Expanding Medicaid:  Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, states have new opportunities to expand Medicaid coverage to individuals with family incomes at or below 133 percent of the federal poverty level (generally $32,253 for a family of four in 2015). This expansion includes non-elderly adults without dependent children, who have not previously been eligible for Medicaid in most states.

Thirty states plus DC have expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, including Ohio.    And as of January 2015, 587,107 Ohioans have gained Medicaid or CHIP coverage since the beginning of the Health Insurance Marketplace first open enrollment period. Across the nation, approximately 11.2 million more Americans are now enrolled in Medicaid and CHIP.

Better Value

Providing better value for your premium dollar through the 80/20 Rule: Health insurance companies now have to spend at least 80 cents of your premium dollar on health care or improvements to care, rather than administrative costs like salaries or marketing, or they have to provide you a refund.  This means that 35,361 Ohioans with private insurance coverage benefited from $1,216,544 in refunds from insurance companies, for an average refund of $69 per family because of the Affordable Care Act.

Scrutinizing unreasonable premium increases: In every State and for the first time under Federal law, insurance companies are required to publicly justify their actions if they want to raise rates by 10 percent or more. Ohio has received $5,091,507 under the new law to help fight unreasonable premium increases. Since implementing the law, the fraction of requests for insurance premium increases of 10 percent or more has dropped dramatically, from 75 percent to 14 percent nationally.  To date, the rate review program has helped save Americans an estimated $1 billion.

Removing lifetime limits on health benefits: The law bans insurance companies from imposing lifetime dollar limits on health benefits ? freeing cancer patients and individuals suffering from other chronic diseases from having to worry about going without treatment because of their lifetime limits. Already, 4,154,000 people in Ohio, including 1,542,000 women and 1,100,000 children, are free from worrying about lifetime limits on coverage. The law also restricts the use of annual limits and bans them completely starting in 2014.

Ending discrimination for pre-existing conditions: As many as 5,053,131 non-elderly Ohioans have some type of pre-existing health condition, including 643,049 children.  Today, health insurers can no longer deny coverage to anyone because of a pre-existing condition, like asthma or diabetes, under the health care law.  And they can no longer charge women more because of their gender.

Expanding mental health and substance use disorder benefits: The Affordable Care Act increases also access to comprehensive coverage by requiring most health plans to cover ten essential health benefit categories, to include hospitalization, prescription drugs, maternity and newborn care, and mental health and substance use disorder services.  The health care law expands mental health and substance use disorder benefits and federal parity protections for 62 million Americans nationwide, including 2,078,730 Ohioans.

Better Health

Covering preventive services with no deductible or co-pay: The health care law requires many insurance plans to provide coverage without cost sharing to enrollees for a variety of preventive health services, such as colonoscopy screening for colon cancer, Pap smears and mammograms for women, well-child visits, and flu shots for all children and adults.

Because of the Affordable Care Act, 76 million Americans with private health insurance gained preventive service coverage with no cost-sharing, including 2,814,000 in Ohio. And women can now get coverage without cost-sharing of even more preventive services they need.  Of the 76 million Americans with expanded access to free preventive services, 29.7 million are women, including 1,079,000 in Ohio receiving expanded preventive services without cost-sharing.

Investing in the primary care workforce: As a result of historic investments through the health care law and the Recovery Act, the numbers of clinicians in the National Health Service Corps are near all-time highs with 9,200 Corps clinicians providing care to approximately 9.7 million people who live in rural, urban, and frontier communities.  The National Health Service Corps repays educational loans and provides scholarships to primary care physicians, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, behavioral health providers, and other primary care providers who practice in areas of the country that have too few health care professionals to serve the people who live there.  As of September 30, 2014, there were 121 Corps clinicians providing primary care services in Ohio, compared to 69 in 2008.

Increasing support for community health centers: The Affordable Care Act increases the funding available to community health centers nationwide. Health Center grantees in Ohio have received $217,319,926  under the health care law to offer a broader array of primary care services, extend their hours of operations, hire more providers, and renovate or build new clinical spaces. 

Of the $217,319,926 awarded to Ohio, $6,308,121 was awarded to Ohio health centers to help enroll uninsured Americans in the Health Insurance Marketplace.  Overall, since 2013, Ohio health centers used these funds to help more than 170,845 Ohio residents with enrollment into affordable health insurance coverage, with 23,230 of those being assisted between October and December 2014. These investments ensure that health centers continue to be a trusted resource for assistance with enrollment in the Marketplace, Medicaid and CHIP in Ohio.

In Ohio, 40 health centers operate 219 sites, providing preventive and primary health care services to 508,333 Ohioans, including 37,309 Latinos and 139,417 African Americans.

Preventing illness and promoting health: Through Fiscal Year 2013, Ohio has received $33,794,581 in grants from the Prevention and Public Health Fund created by the health care law. This fund was created to support effective policies in Ohio and nationwide, such as initiatives focused on tobacco cessation, obesity prevention, health coverage enrollment assistance, and increasing the primary care and public health workforce, so that all Americans can lead longer, more productive lives.

A Stronger Medicare Program

Making prescription drugs affordable for seniors: In Ohio, people with Medicare have saved nearly $750,550,535 on prescription drugs because of the Affordable Care Act.  In 2014 alone, 239,721 individuals in Ohio saved over $235,018,764, or an average of $980 per beneficiary.  In 2015, people with Medicare in the ?donut hole? received a 55 percent discount on covered brand name drugs and a 35 percent discount on generic drugs. And thanks to the health care law, coverage for both brand name and generic drugs will continue to increase over time until the coverage gap is closed.  Nationally, over 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs since the law?s enactment, for an average savings of $1,598 per beneficiary.

Covering preventive services with no deductible or co-pay : With no deductibles or co-pays, cost is no longer a barrier for seniors and people with disabilities who want to stay healthy by detecting and treating health problems early. In 2014 alone, an estimated 39 million people benefited from Medicare?s coverage of preventive services with no cost-sharing.  In Ohio, 1,486,864 individuals with Medicare used one or more free preventive service in 2014.

Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:18:53 am
HusseinCare, ObamaCare The Affordable Health Care Act.

What most people fail to realize is we have the best healthcare in the world bar none. What we lack is health INSURANCE. But the blame is not just with the health industry. Most Americans, unlike the European counterparts don't get their checkups etc. What happens then is a problem that could be solved with simple treatments blows up and leads to more money spent or, in a worse case death.

If you like your plan you can keep it. That's been proven to be a lie from the get go. Obama knew you couldn't before he ever said it.

We used to have a great insurance system. I used to have the BC/BS Million Dollar Mater Medical. It was affordable. Doctor's office visits I paid OOP. But they fees were a lot less then. Seems as though all the lawsuits have driven Malpractice to extreme heights. And many doctors now practice CYA medicine. My last primary was like that. My current one is a bit better though.

I'm not in the ACA. But my plan has changed dramatically and I have way more OOP expenses. So what happens then? I go less. So in the end if I do ever have a serious illness it will be found later and will be more expensive to treat. I'm not getting a new CPAP because of the DME deductible I now have. Thanks Obamacare.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:25:26 am
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.



Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.

They've recovered 27.8 billion since 1997. $17 - $57 billion was lost in fraud in 2012 alone.
Quote
For example, Medicare health care expenditures grew from $546.3 billion in 2011 to $572.5 billion in 2012,
the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Office of the Actuary said. That?s an increase of $26.2 billion
in Medicare spending over one year. (CMS said there was a large uptick in Medicare enrollment in 2012, largely
due to the baby boomers turning 65. Also, spending per enrollee grew by 0.7 percent.)
If you apply the frequently cited estimate that 3 to 10 percent of health care expenditures are lost to fraud to
the actual Medicare expenditures cited above, then an estimated $17 billion to $57 billion was lost due to
Medicare fraud in 2012. The 2013 actual Medicare expenditures haven?t been published by the Office of the
Actuary yet.

http://www.smpresource.org/Handler.ashx?Item_ID=9145EE0D-A2B8-4BD0-8533-84BF59B6DBD1
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 08:31:10 am
HusseinCare, ObamaCare The Affordable Health Care Act.

What most people fail to realize is we have the best healthcare in the world bar none. What we lack is health INSURANCE. But the blame is not just with the health industry. Most Americans, unlike the European counterparts don't get their checkups etc. What happens then is a problem that could be solved with simple treatments blows up and leads to more money spent or, in a worse case death.

If you like your plan you can keep it. That's been proven to be a lie from the get go. Obama knew you couldn't before he ever said it.

We used to have a great insurance system. I used to have the BC/BS Million Dollar Mater Medical. It was affordable. Doctor's office visits I paid OOP. But they fees were a lot less then. Seems as though all the lawsuits have driven Malpractice to extreme heights. And many doctors now practice CYA medicine. My last primary was like that. My current one is a bit better though.

I'm not in the ACA. But my plan has changed dramatically and I have way more OOP expenses. So what happens then? I go less. So in the end if I do ever have a serious illness it will be found later and will be more expensive to treat. I'm not getting a new CPAP because of the DME deductible I now have. Thanks Obamacare.

So because a lot more folks can afford to get insurance is a bad thing?.....It's not the ACA that has driven up costs....it's greed....what I highlighted is the biggest problem, you're right.....we're idiots when it comes to having good insurance....and just plain not using it....the old 'pay me now or pay me more later' game has bitten us in the butt .....there's why rates go up...

We had supplemental insurance with our Medicare..........Mine just went up $20/mo....I asked why...they said it's because you're getting older.....wtf DOH

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:32:58 am
http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20140222/is-the-affordable-care-act-working-in-ohio-area-residents-sound-off

?You can give someone a policy and subsidize a premium, but if they have to spend $4,000 of a deductible before they can go to the doctor, then what we see is those are prohibitive,? she said. ?We have a lot of patients here who are chronically ill who need a few medications for high blood-pressure heart disease, diabetes, stuff like that. But to meet a deductible, or to have a significant cost share or copay for all those medications is still too high.?


ACA so great it's mandatory.


You couldn't afford insurance before ACA. Now you still can't afford insurance but they are fining you for not having it.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 08:36:32 am
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.



Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.

They've recovered 27.8 billion since 1997. $17 - $57 billion was lost in fraud in 2012 alone.
Quote
For example, Medicare health care expenditures grew from $546.3 billion in 2011 to $572.5 billion in 2012,
the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Office of the Actuary said. That?s an increase of $26.2 billion
in Medicare spending over one year. (CMS said there was a large uptick in Medicare enrollment in 2012, largely
due to the baby boomers turning 65. Also, spending per enrollee grew by 0.7 percent.)
If you apply the frequently cited estimate that 3 to 10 percent of health care expenditures are lost to fraud to
the actual Medicare expenditures cited above, then an estimated $17 billion to $57 billion was lost due to
Medicare fraud in 2012. The 2013 actual Medicare expenditures haven?t been published by the Office of the
Actuary yet.

http://www.smpresource.org/Handler.ashx?Item_ID=9145EE0D-A2B8-4BD0-8533-84BF59B6DBD1

Yep...Drs/clinics/hospitals are raping the system badly.....but thankfully most are getting caught.....but they've been doing this for years, and years...I agree, it's about time these folks pay the pauper. They should jail a few and set an example....fines don't work...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 08:42:36 am
http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20140222/is-the-affordable-care-act-working-in-ohio-area-residents-sound-off

?You can give someone a policy and subsidize a premium, but if they have to spend $4,000 of a deductible before they can go to the doctor, then what we see is those are prohibitive,? she said. ?We have a lot of patients here who are chronically ill who need a few medications for high blood-pressure heart disease, diabetes, stuff like that. But to meet a deductible, or to have a significant cost share or copay for all those medications is still too high.?


ACA so great it's mandatory.


You couldn't afford insurance before ACA. Now you still can't afford insurance but they are fining you for not having it.

That article is from back in early '14.......lots of adjustments have been made now....

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html (http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 07, 2015, 10:39:19 am
Its an arrogant conceit to say
Quote
we have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.

Not even close.

If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.

People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 11:46:42 am
Its an arrogant conceit to say
Quote
we have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.

Not even close.

If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.

People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.

I'm not sure that it's ignorance at all.....each generation has mostly followed what was passed down...until the ACA really set things in motion, many things just were never questioned...but rather just accepted....like lemmings.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 01:06:34 pm
Well I will tell you how this works for me. I went on line to to get insurance. Came up with 257 a month 5000 deductible. You would think that 8084 not so bad. But it will not pay  for three of my meds that would cost me 1100. There is no generic forms of these meds. So now I am up to 21284. So now Im up to 26208 a year. Ppl say have your doc put you on something else there is nothing that works as well as these. If you have no money or very little how could you pay that 8 grand. My brother has worked all his life for that little 2100 a month an SSD wants more than half for a spin down. So tell me again how it helps. You can print all you want. But if it dont work that way in real life it dont me diddly squat.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 01:10:49 pm
Well I will tell you how this works for me. I went on line to to get insurance. Came up with 257 a month 5000 deductible. You would think that 8084 not so bad. But it will not pay  for three of my meds that would cost me 1100. There is no generic forms of these meds. So now I am up to 21284. So now Im up to 26208 a year. Ppl say have your doc put you on something else there is nothing that works as well as these. If you have no money or very little how could you pay that 8 grand. My brother has worked all his life for that little 2100 a month an SSD wants more than half for a spin down. So tell me again how it helps. You can print all you want. But if it dont work that way in real life it dont me diddly squat.

Yep, you're getting the short end of the stick alright.....WOW....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 01:25:29 pm
Its an arrogant conceit to say
Quote
we have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.

Not even close.

Ahh, you beat me to it Bill  LOL.  Our poor friend is once again very misinformed, or perhaps as I mentioned earlier, delusional.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 01:46:37 pm
My pre health care act options were $2000.00 a month in premiums with $6000.00 deductible.  We were never refused insurance, I just couldn't cover the $30,000.00 outlay before the insurance kicked in.....  so at 58 I'm broke, a lifetime of savings gone and house mortgaged to the hilt to cover medical expenses.  But hey, I'm living the dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......  pursuit being the key word!

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 02:09:55 pm
My pre health care act options were $2000.00 a month in premiums with $6000.00 deductible.  We were never refused insurance, I just couldn't cover the $30,000.00 outlay before the insurance kicked in.....  so at 58 I'm broke, a lifetime of savings gone and house mortgaged to the hilt to cover medical expenses.  But hey, I'm living the dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......  pursuit being the key word!

Dennis

ouch....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 pm
Its an arrogant conceit to say
Quote
we have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.

Not even close.

If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.

People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.

I'm not sure that it's ignorance at all.....each generation has mostly followed what was passed down...until the ACA really set things in motion, many things just were never questioned...but rather just accepted....like lemmings.....

I really wish we had a clear cut example of how the government takes care of healthcare.
Hmmm. Wonder if we do.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/politics/va-inspector-general-report/

Quote
Hundreds of thousands of veterans listed in the Department of Veterans Affairs enrollment system died before their applications for care were processed, according to a report issued Wednesday.

May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 03:18:29 pm
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN

I must have missed something.....  who here loves CNN?   huh  Maybe Jon Stewart  LOLOLOL

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 03:52:28 pm
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN

I must have missed something.....  who here loves CNN?   huh  Maybe Jon Stewart  LOLOLOL

Dennis

LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 06:15:43 pm
http://www.jebbush.com (http://www.jebbush.com)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 08, 2015, 07:30:28 am
(http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/coke.jpg)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 08, 2015, 08:19:03 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12316435_1017077278385326_7493899832531494110_n.jpg?oh=b96bb6ceadf2457516ce52c8dc26288a&oe=56E8EFA9)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 08:42:44 am
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN

I must have missed something.....  who here loves CNN?   huh  Maybe Jon Stewart  LOLOLOL

Dennis

LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..

And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 08, 2015, 09:25:12 am
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN

I must have missed something.....  who here loves CNN?   huh  Maybe Jon Stewart  LOLOLOL

Dennis

LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..

And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?

It's never been given a chance to succeed,  or get the needed tweaks that all new things must have along the way.....Repub's have continuously blocked everything...and have only wasted tax payers money by repeated votes to repeal it....if that effort had gone into making it better, the ACA could be what we all need....medical insurance protection against the souring rates of the profit greedy insurance companies....I guess if you have money it is no big deal.....but the 99% of us that aren't rich need it....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 01:13:06 pm
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN

I must have missed something.....  who here loves CNN?   huh  Maybe Jon Stewart  LOLOLOL

Dennis

LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..

And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?

It's never been given a chance to succeed,  or get the needed tweaks that all new things must have along the way.....Repub's have continuously blocked everything...and have only wasted tax payers money by repeated votes to repeal it....if that effort had gone into making it better, the ACA could be what we all need....medical insurance protection against the souring rates of the profit greedy insurance companies....I guess if you have money it is no big deal.....but the 99% of us that aren't rich need it....

Jon, they've had how many years with handling the VA and that is abysmal at best. I would agree with you if there were no track record. Alas we have two.

BTW before ObamaScare I did have good coverage. Wasn't expensive either. Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done. And you can't only blame the republicans. Hussein had to postpone many parts of ObamaScare many times.

Also if it is so great why are many unions exempt? And why aren't our reps on it?

Quote
When the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Obamacare Thursday, unions praised the decision, but it wasn?t always that way. The biggest, most powerful unions in the U.S. opposed the law until they were granted special exemptions.

Might want to note Hussein has "tweaked" ObamaScare 56 times as of Sept 2015.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 01:22:01 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12316435_1017077278385326_7493899832531494110_n.jpg?oh=b96bb6ceadf2457516ce52c8dc26288a&oe=56E8EFA9)

Might want to note that the last two democrat POTUS have never even been trained militarily in any way shape or form. One was a draft dodger. The other is a "community organizer" and failed at that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 08, 2015, 01:32:31 pm
Yet.....but neither made that boast either, huh?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 08, 2015, 03:35:10 pm
.....  Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done....

What a bunch of baloney.  We already have everything we need to prevent frivolous lawsuits.  Big corporations and insurance companies want "tort" reform just so they can screw us over and know what the limits are before hand.  You should really broaden your horizons and get the big picture instead of the cable news rhetoric


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 08, 2015, 04:19:12 pm
Thanks for a good story, Dennis.  The young interviewer is very good.  Here's a link to the movie for free:  http://www.hulu.com/watch/752136
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on December 08, 2015, 04:41:16 pm
Nice post,  Dennis. Now to watch the movie!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 08, 2015, 04:47:12 pm
Good luck.  It had tons of ads and tons of buffering.  They wanted me to buy their stupid service to make it better.  I refuse. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on December 08, 2015, 05:08:16 pm
Ha, Liz...you're right. I already opted out!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 08, 2015, 06:11:04 pm
I don't know where you can watch it for free, but if you have Netflix, here's the link.....

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70167106?strkid=1091848097_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70167106 (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70167106?strkid=1091848097_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70167106)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 08, 2015, 08:50:13 pm
Quote
Bill I believe our climate is changing. It has since the last ice age. I don't believe however it is man made.

So why are you dissing the information in support of climate change????



Quote
Just look at what Etna is letting loose.

Volcanoes can produce a lot of pollution when they erupt. Sometimes, if volcanoes emit a lot of sulphuric gasses they can lead to acid rain. The Skaft? volcano in Iceland erupted in 1793, releasing lots of toxic gasses that killed a lot of people, as well as poisoning the land so that nothing could grow. About 50% of livestock on Iceland died, and 25% of the population died in the resulting famine. The effects were felt all over Western Europe.

The ash and dust the volcanoes can emit can also have severe environmental effects. The dust clouds from large volcanoes can partially block out the sun, reducing temperatures and stopping crop growth. For example, when Tambora erupted in 1815, we had what is called the year without summer, because of all the volcanic dust blocking the sun?s rays. Crops failed all over the world, leading to famines.

Also, volcanoes can emit lots of CO2.

As I discussed previously, there are normal volcanoes like those you listed that produce large amounts of gases etc., but they are completely dwarfed by mega or super eruptions.

Eruption size is usually in cubic miles or kilometers of material spewed out:
Mt. St. Helenes:                0.24 cu. miles
Tambora:                         36 cu. miles
Yosemite (lg'est):             600 cu. miles
Siberian traps:                 239,913 to 479,826 cu. miles
Indian traps:                    512,000 cu. miles

The big eruptions have been shown to had geologically significant effects on the environment. The smaller eruptions, much less so. Probably like comparing a dangerous gas leak in your house to a fart.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:53:22 pm
Quote
Bill I believe our climate is changing. It has since the last ice age. I don't believe however it is man made.

So why are you dissing the information in support of climate change????



Quote
Just look at what Etna is letting loose.

Volcanoes can produce a lot of pollution when they erupt. Sometimes, if volcanoes emit a lot of sulphuric gasses they can lead to acid rain. The Skaft? volcano in Iceland erupted in 1793, releasing lots of toxic gasses that killed a lot of people, as well as poisoning the land so that nothing could grow. About 50% of livestock on Iceland died, and 25% of the population died in the resulting famine. The effects were felt all over Western Europe.

The ash and dust the volcanoes can emit can also have severe environmental effects. The dust clouds from large volcanoes can partially block out the sun, reducing temperatures and stopping crop growth. For example, when Tambora erupted in 1815, we had what is called the year without summer, because of all the volcanic dust blocking the sun?s rays. Crops failed all over the world, leading to famines.

Also, volcanoes can emit lots of CO2.

As I discussed previously, there are normal volcanoes like those you listed that produce large amounts of gases etc., but they are completely dwarfed by mega or super eruptions.

Eruption size is usually in cubic miles or kilometers of material spewed out:
Mt. St. Helenes:                0.24 cu. miles
Tambora:                         36 cu. miles
Yosemite (lg'est):             600 cu. miles
Siberian traps:                 239,913 to 479,826 cu. miles
Indian traps:                    512,000 cu. miles

The big eruptions have been shown to had geologically significant effects on the environment. The smaller eruptions, much less so. Probably like comparing a dangerous gas leak in your house to a fart.

Bill, where the problem comes in is where it is coming from. Man made GCC is simply a money machine and global wealth redistribution.

Is our planet warming? More than likely.
Is it now going through a leveling off? They say so.
Will it cool again? More than likely. Some scientists say it is already occurring.
Is it because of man? No.
Will a ton of money be redistributed "fixing" GCC? Hell yes!
Will China really abide by any clean legislation? Yeah if you believe they will I have this bridge I am selling. Even has a toll both on both ends. You'll make your investment back in no time at all.
If you believe that these GW "scientists", Al Gore and libs like him aren't making mega bucks from "carbon offsets" and other such nonsense well, let's really discuss that bridge you need to buy from me.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:58:15 pm
.....  Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done....

What a bunch of baloney.  We already have everything we need to prevent frivolous lawsuits.  Big corporations and insurance companies want "tort" reform just so they can screw us over and know what the limits are before hand.  You should really broaden your horizons and get the big picture instead of the cable news rhetoric



Dennis

Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.

You may want to stop watching MSNBS and broaden your own horizons. For the record I really don't watch much cable news. Most of my TV is cartoons my 6 year old puts on.

http://www.commongood.org/blog/entry/infographic-lawsuits-in-america

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/10/05/how-many-lawsuits-are-there-in-the-us--amp-what-are-they-for-an-amazing-overview.htm
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 08, 2015, 10:31:38 pm
Quote
Bill, where the problem comes in is where it is coming from. Man made GCC is simply a money machine and global wealth redistribution.

True. Exxon (among others) is producing global warming to increase their money!

Quote
Is our planet warming? More than likely.
True.

Quote
Is it now going through a leveling off? They say so.
False. Only in the Fox News/Forbes bubble universe! It will pop sometime.

Quote
Will it cool again? More than likely. Some scientists say it is already occurring.
Those being paid off by corporate employers!

Quote
Is it because of man? No.
Wrong again and in opposition to the vast majority of scientiists!

Quote
Will a ton of money be redistributed "fixing" GCC? Hell yes!
Hopefully to clean energy producers, but distribution happens anytime money is exchanged so not much an argument as presented.

Quote
Will China really abide by any clean legislation? Yeah if you believe they will I have this bridge I am selling. Even has a toll both on both ends. You'll make your investment back in no time at all.
Probably wrong. Actually I think they might be doing more about it than we are WRT developing solar power and other things.

Quote
If you believe that these GW "scientists", Al Gore and libs like him aren't making mega bucks from "carbon offsets" and other such nonsense well, let's really discuss that bridge you need to buy from me.
You should include some references when you go around slandering people. You sound somewhat like Trump now.

Also:
Quote
that moron Einstein
What is the point of this?
Sounds like straight out trolling.

Poor old Einstein, originated quantum physics and invented relativity, but can't get no right wing respect.
My. My. My.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 05:59:22 am
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.

Guessing you didn't bother to fact check.....  again   huh

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 06:19:57 am
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.

Guessing you didn't bother to fact check.....  again   huh

Dennis

Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 06:31:10 am
Nice find Jon.  One of the best things about the Internet, you can still find the truth if you are so inclined.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 08:28:31 am
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.

Guessing you didn't bother to fact check.....  again   huh

Dennis

Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)

And now we can't get a good hot cup of coffee anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 08:48:39 am
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.

Guessing you didn't bother to fact check.....  again   huh

Dennis

Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)

And now we can't get a good hot cup of coffee anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants

Sure ya can....one of our local gas stations has some really good coffee...always fresh and hot.....as for the coffee chain outlets....naw...can't stand 'yuppie' coffee....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 09:00:50 am
(http://pfc.prepareforchange.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/1234rothchildgovernment.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 10:58:23 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on December 09, 2015, 11:20:24 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)

But they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 11:43:59 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)

Well I'd rather fight them over there than here. But hey, if you'd rather have another 9-11 here so be it.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 11:56:58 am
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...

Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......

It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 02:12:12 pm
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...

Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......

It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....

Jeb's brother served. So did his father #41. He is also the last living former President who is a veteran of World War II.
Clinton never served. Can't find as his family did either. His father actually died a few months before he was born. Name is William Jefferson Blythe III. His stepfather was an abusive drunk. Funny how he took his step's last name at 15 even though he would abuse his mother.
And is their any doubt about Hussein or his family never serving?

 John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bill Clinton and Barry Soetoro
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 09, 2015, 02:24:36 pm
Quote
Jeb's brother served.

Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 02:25:56 pm
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...

Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......

It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....

Jeb's brother served. So did his father #41. He is also the last living former President who is a veteran of World War II.
Clinton never served. Can't find as his family did either. His father actually died a few months before he was born. Name is William Jefferson Blythe III. His stepfather was an abusive drunk. Funny how he took his step's last name at 15 even though he would abuse his mother.
And is their any doubt about Hussein or his family never serving?

 John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bill Clinton and Barry Soetoro

...."and a partridge in a pear tree..."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 02:43:48 pm
Quote
Jeb's brother served.

Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?

t's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1070518/posts

Fake? He did get an honorable discharge. And didn't Dan Rather get into some hot water about falsifying documents on W's military service? Why yes, I believe he did back in 04.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 03:15:05 pm
Going back to Obamacare.

Seems the CBO that is the "non partisan" Congressional Budget Office states that employment will decline starting in 2017 because of the ACA. Love how that is working out for us. Don't you? Another Obama failure.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 03:20:56 pm
Quote
Jeb's brother served.

Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?

t's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1070518/posts

Fake? He did get an honorable discharge. And didn't Dan Rather get into some hot water about falsifying documents on W's military service? Why yes, I believe he did back in 04.

'expedited discharge'.....LOL...they just wanted to get rid of him...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 03:29:22 pm
Whether they wanted to get rid of him or not is irrelevant. He did get the required amount of hours. And Dan Rather did have forged documents. His "retirement" was more than likely hastened by it anyway.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 03:39:36 pm
Whether they wanted to get rid of him or not is irrelevant. He did get the required amount of hours. And Dan Rather did have forged documents. His "retirement" was more than likely hastened by it anyway.

..ahem, actually his fulfillment of hours is in dispute....he missed over a year of required flight hours, duty, while he was off helping an Alabama senator run his campaign......I believe the word would be 'forgave' his required hours to get his butt outta there....LOL

""(doc5.gif ) - Air Force HQ Denver disallows transfer (date unclear)

*Lt. Col. Killian Memorandum for Record, 8/1/72: "...suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (Flight) as ordered...Officer has made no attempt to meet his training certification or flight physical."

(grounded.gif ) - Bush's suspension from flying; "Reason for Suspension" Failure to accomplish annual medical examination." (9/29/72; confirming verbal orders of 8/1/72) (James Bath is also suspended on this same document.)

(doc2.gif ) - Bush request for temporary transfer to 187th Tac Recon Grp. in AL (Bush letter, 9/5/72)

(doc11.gif )- AL ANG HQ approval for Bush to train with the 187th. (9/15 and 9/29, 1972)

(doc4.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 1..."Not Observed" in all categories. (5/2/73)

(doc9.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 2..."Not Observed at this unit during the period of this report." (5/2/73)

(doc17.gif ) - Special Order from Department of the Air Force, Ellington AFB, ordering Bush to perform 9 days duty in May/June 1973. (5/1/73)

*Memo from Killian, recipient not noted, 6/24/73 (see p. 6): "I got a call from your office today concerning the evaluation of 1st Lt. Bush...Neither Lt. Col Harris or I feel we can rate 1st Lt. Bush since he was not training with 111th F.I.S. since April 1972..."

(doc12.gif )- USAF requests more information on Officer Effectiveness Report; "This Officer should have been reassigned in May 1972 since he is no longer training in his AFSC or with his unit of assignment." (6/29/73)

*Killian Memo to File, 8/18/73: "Harris gave me a message from Grp today regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate. Austin is not happy today either."(doc28.gif )- Major Martin replies; "Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report not available for administrative reasons." (11/12/73)

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp (http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp)

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 03:47:23 pm
Wasn't much of that the Killian documents that were forged? AKA Rathergate?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 04:45:42 pm
Wasn't much of that the Killian documents that were forged? AKA Rathergate?

I wouldn't know, but the remark about them 'sugar coating' was likely close......He got out, got the honorable, and the rest is lore......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 05:12:19 pm

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 09, 2015, 05:44:02 pm
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.

But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.

Didn't really get elected.

Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.

Cheney made the important decisions.

One of the Absolute Worst.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 05:57:36 pm

Dennis


yeppers..... =;-)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 10, 2015, 08:46:05 am
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.

But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.

Didn't really get elected.

Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.

Cheney made the important decisions.

One of the Absolute Worst.

Bill, just because you don't like W he did serve in the service and was honorably discharged. The Killian letters were found to be forgeries.
They recounted the ballots multiple times.They looked at hanging chads. They looked at ballots that mosquitoes dimple on Gore's side. They looked at the voter's
"intent" on ballots with an impression on Gore's side. And even with all the recounts with liberal voters too stupid to fully punch out a chad W still had more votes. Not many but still more. So if they kept recounting and recounting and out of all those recounts Gore had more one time should that have been the official count?
Seems to me Bill you just don't like fact that doesn't agree with your opinion. And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to your own facts.

Now this started because Jon doubted that any of the candidates had family that served. Jeb does. That is a fact. W was honorably discharge. That too is a fact.

And getting back to the original meme. So what? None of the democrat candidates have served either. And Sanders is a draft dodger too boot.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 09:17:22 am
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.

But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.

Didn't really get elected.

Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.

Cheney made the important decisions.

One of the Absolute Worst.

Bill, just because you don't like W he did serve in the service and was honorably discharged. The Killian letters were found to be forgeries.
They recounted the ballots multiple times.They looked at hanging chads. They looked at ballots that mosquitoes dimple on Gore's side. They looked at the voter's
"intent" on ballots with an impression on Gore's side. And even with all the recounts with liberal voters too stupid to fully punch out a chad W still had more votes. Not many but still more. So if they kept recounting and recounting and out of all those recounts Gore had more one time should that have been the official count?
Seems to me Bill you just don't like fact that doesn't agree with your opinion. And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to your own facts.

Now this started because Jon doubted that any of the candidates had family that served. Jeb does. That is a fact. W was honorably discharge. That too is a fact.

And getting back to the original meme. So what? None of the democrat candidates have served either. And Sanders is a draft dodger too boot.

  So you best gripe is "oh, you're a bigger one?"....the meme isn't a comparison...it's just a factual statement. Jeb's Dad served....but as for 'W'...spare me...'W'....got a pass with his 'honorable'......and you dang well know it too...quite being so stubborn about it.

  As to him being a great President....LOLOLOLOL....you mean Cheney's puppet actually did anything on his own....LOLOLOLOL....maybe it's your living so close to 'Disneyland' that affects your rational thinking....you know 'Tinker Bell' pixie dust syndrome....Bush left a middle east mess that is still messed up....and it's not Obama's fault either.....so don't even bother to go there....



 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 10, 2015, 10:42:37 am
Of course this is the original statement of yours that I was responding to until Bill led us off on a tangential road.

Quote
But they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
I gave you one of the candidates that did have family that served although it is not a son or a daughter.

Jon, there is no proof he got a pass. The letters were deemed a forgery.

I never said W was a great president. I said he was a better president than the current occupant.

Quote
And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.

Now you want to get into the ME? Hussein said repeatedly we shouldn't be in Iraq. Afghanistan was where we needed to be.

Quote
Senator Obama says America must shift its defense resources from Iraq to Afghanistan, which he sees as ground zero for any war on terrorism. He says he would remove one or two brigades a month from Iraq, and get all combat troops out within 16 months. ?The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on Al Qaeda,? he said last year. He also promised a diplomatic initiative with regional allies, and even foes ? read Iran ? to seek a more stable Iraq.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/iraq.html

Well we did get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. And we see how well that's worked out. Now instead of Afghanistan a mess and Iraqis voting in their own elections and holding up the purple thumb the entire ME is worse because of Obama's ineptitude.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 10:58:49 am
Of course this is the original statement of yours that I was responding to until Bill led us off on a tangential road.

Quote
But they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
I gave you one of the candidates that did have family that served although it is not a son or a daughter.

Jon, there is no proof he got a pass. The letters were deemed a forgery.

I never said W was a great president. I said he was a better president than the current occupant.

Quote
And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.

Now you want to get into the ME? Hussein said repeatedly we shouldn't be in Iraq. Afghanistan was where we needed to be.

Quote
Senator Obama says America must shift its defense resources from Iraq to Afghanistan, which he sees as ground zero for any war on terrorism. He says he would remove one or two brigades a month from Iraq, and get all combat troops out within 16 months. ?The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on Al Qaeda,? he said last year. He also promised a diplomatic initiative with regional allies, and even foes ? read Iran ? to seek a more stable Iraq.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/iraq.html

Well we did get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. And we see how well that's worked out. Now instead of Afghanistan a mess and Iraqis voting in their own elections and holding up the purple thumb the entire ME is worse because of Obama's ineptitude.

President Obama may have boosted the troop levels in Afghanistan.....however, he didn't put us there....that was 'W'.(but you knew that right?).....President Obama has reduced the troop levels actually leading to a soon complete withdrawal.....putting the blame on him is a lame argument....'W'(read Cheney) was the lame brain that got us into those hell holes...

"Main article: 2001 in Afghanistan

    October 7: (9 p.m. local time): the United States, supported by Britain, begins its attack on Afghanistan, launching bombs and cruise missiles against Taliban military and communications facilities and suspected terrorist training camps. Kabul, Kandahar, and Herat were hit.
    October 9: A cruise missile kills four U.N. demining employees and injured four others in a building several miles east of Kabul.
    October 26: Abdul Haq killed.
    November 6 - Zari, Keshendeh and Aq-Kupruk fall to the Northern Alliance[1]
    November 8 - Pakistan, being the only nation that still had diplomatic ties to the Taliban, asked Afghanistan's rulers to close their consulate in the city of Karachi.
    November 9: Battle of Mazari Sharif.
    November 10 - The Taliban and Northern Alliance fighters both claimed that the strategic northern Afghan city of Mazari Sharif was taken by Northern Alliance fighters.
    November 11: Journalists Pierre Billaud, Johanne Sutton, and Volker Handloik are ambushed and killed.
    November 12 - Taliban forces abandon Kabul ahead of advancing Northern Alliance troops.
        2001 uprising in Herat.
    November 14 - Northern Alliance fighters took over Kabul, the Afghan capital, and then controlled virtually all the north of Afghanistan.
    November 16: Mohammed Atef, the military chief of al-Qaeda, killed in a US airstrike.
    November 19: Four foreign journalists - Harry Burton, Maria Grazia Cutuli, Azizullah Haidari, and Julio Fuentes ? were ambushed and killed.
    November 25 ? Northern Alliance gained control of Kunduz, the last Taliban stronghold in Northern Afghanistan, but only after Pakistani aircraft rescue several thousand Taliban and Al-Qaeda fighters and their military advisers.[2][3] The Taliban then controlled less than 25% of the country, mainly around Kandahar in the south.
        U.S. Marines landed in force by helicopter at Camp Rhino south of Kandahar and began preparing it for fixed wing aircraft. They also occupied the main road between Kandahar and Pakistan.
        Battle of Qala-i-Jangi. Forces loyal to bin Laden smuggled weapons into their prison near Mazar i Sharif after surrendering at Kunduz. They attacked the Northern Alliance guards and storm an armory. U.S. Special Forces call in air attacks. Hundreds of prisoners are killed as well as 40 Alliance fighters and one U.S. CIA operative, Johnny Michael Spann. Spann becomes the first U.S. and Coalition combat casualty. A young American named John Walker Lindh is found in the midst of the rebellion and extradited to the US on terrorism charges.
    December 6: Kandahar falls.
    December: The Battle of Tora Bora against Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters; Osama bin Laden reportedly escapes during this battle.
    December: The Dasht-i-Leili massacre, where hundreds of Taliban were allegedly suffocated to death while being transported in metal containers.
    December: The Bonn Agreement establishes the postwar system of government for Afghanistan, and establishes the International Security Assistance Force.
    December 21: The interim Afghan government is sworn in.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 10:59:52 am
Here read up on it....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 02:13:25 pm
..interesting...

"Connecticut is taking steps to block people who are banned from flying on commercial airliners from obtaining firearms permits, the state's Democratic governor, Dannel Malloy said on Thursday.
"If you cannot fly due to being on a watch list, you shouldn't be able to purchase a firearm," Malloy said. "Since Congress so far as failed to act, we well."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 10, 2015, 02:17:20 pm
What a refreshing change.....  someone doing something fort the betterment of the country.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 10, 2015, 02:53:25 pm
Climate Denier's Anthem:

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 03:28:10 pm
LOL......that's wild......LOL.... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 10, 2015, 03:51:56 pm
?Don?t mess with Shorty?: Mexican cartel boss threatens ISIS over drug trade

 The runaway leader of Mexico?s deadliest drug cartel, Joaqu?n ?El Chapo? Guzm?n, has reportedly sent a threatening letter to Islamic State following the destruction of one of his cartel?s shipments.
Trends
Islamic State

El Chapo (aka ?Shorty?) delivered the threat to Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi via an encrypted email which was later leaked by cartelblog.com.

The Mexican drug baron, who runs the notorious Sinaloa cartel, made it clear IS had ?made a mistake? by destroying the cartel?s drug shipment.
Read more
Screenshot from RT video RT team relives infamous El Chapo drug lord?s tunnel escape from prison (VIDEO)

"You [IS] are not soldiers,? El Chapo wrote, according to the unnamed blogger cited by cartelblog.com. ?My men will destroy you?? he promised Al Baghdadi.

?Your god cannot save you from the true terror that my men will levy at you if you continue to impact my operation,? it said.

El Chapo became Mexico's top drug lord in 2003. He was believed in 2011 to have surpassed infamous ?cocaine king? Pablo Escobar, with the US Drug Enforcement Administration calling El Chapo the biggest drug tycoon ever.

El Chapo is wanted by Mexico, Interpol and the US, which has offered a $5 million reward for information leading to his capture.

Guzman was first arrested in 1993 and spent a decade in a maximum-security prison in Mexico before escaping. He spent 13 years on the run before his recapture in 2014.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 11, 2015, 05:56:53 am
(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5221/0/16x9/800.jpg)

WICHITA, KS?Chuckling and shaking their heads as they described their annual family gift exchange to reporters, Koch Industries executives Charles and David Koch confirmed Wednesday they had unwittingly gotten each other the same election for Christmas this year.

The two brothers and energy industry magnates, who for decades have gathered to share a holiday meal and open presents next to the Christmas tree in Charles? Wichita home, admitted they were a bit embarrassed to learn they had each given the other U.S. Rep. Lee Zeldin?s congressional seat, but said they ultimately shrugged off the coincidence.

?Now that I think about it, I can?t believe this has never happened before. It was probably bound to sooner or later. I guess we just know each other too well!?

?When we realized we both bought New York?s 1st District, we just looked at each other and laughed,? said Charles Koch, who acknowledged that he and David have pretty similar tastes. ?Now that I think about it, I can?t believe this has never happened before. It was probably bound to sooner or later. I guess we just know each other too well!?

?At least it?s something we can enjoy using together,? he added.

David Koch explained that he had hoped the present would be a special surprise for Charles, noting that he had taken care to be discreet by telling his brother he was ?just heading out to another fundraiser at Lincoln Center? when he was in fact on his way to go purchase the outcome of the election in the eastern Long Island congressional district. In addition, he was reportedly careful not to take any calls from the Zeldin 2016 campaign team while he and Charles were out together at dinner, the ballet, or Cato Institute symposiums.

?A few months ago, we were watching the news, and when one of the pundits on TV mentioned Zeldin?s reelection bid, Charles? whole face just lit up,? said David Koch, who later admitted he had purchased the district partly because he knew he would want to borrow it for himself from time to time. ?Well, it seems like my brother and I both had the same idea about limiting the petroleum industry?s liability for toxic spills and ensuring taxpayers shoulder the majority of cleanup costs. That?s just so us, you know??

?After he got me Wisconsin?s right-to-work bill last year, I knew I had to get him something really good this Christmas,? David added.

The brothers said they were relieved to have spent the same amount on their gifts, having both made the maximum $2,700 in direct donations to the incumbent representative?s campaign and, through their super PAC Freedom Partners Action Fund, earmarked $2 million to pay for attack ads and mailers to smear Zeldin?s challenger in the key swing district.

?We went in together on Scott Walker a few months back, which was a real letdown, so I wanted to get David something he could really get some use out of,? said Charles Koch, recalling how disappointed his brother had been when the former presidential candidate had stopped working. ?We were so excited when we first got Walker, but he turned out to be defective. It would have cost way too much to fix him.?

According to reports, the brothers agreed they would avoid making the same mistake next Christmas by simply giving each other a $25 million gift card that could be spent at any lobbying firm in the United States.

http://www.theonion.com/article/koch-brothers-get-each-other-same-election-christm-52012
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 11, 2015, 09:37:50 am

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 11, 2015, 09:44:42 am
I've seen that...isn't it great   |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 11, 2015, 09:50:20 am
It is.....  Makes you think.


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 12, 2015, 10:18:13 pm
Ever wonder where corporate climate deniers get "experts" to support their claims:

https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2015/12/08/exposed-academics-for-hire/ (https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2015/12/08/exposed-academics-for-hire/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 13, 2015, 05:02:09 am
BBC has had several pieces on Exxon/Mobil funding scientists to cast doubt.  Also, nice piece on PBS.....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/climate-of-doubt/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/climate-of-doubt/)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 14, 2015, 04:01:09 pm
Donald Trump: Republican Presidential Candidate Says Water Regulations Harm His Ability to Wash Hair

Trump's example of environmental rules that hurt his great hair? ?You have showers where I can?t wash my hair properly, it?s a disaster! It?s true. The showerheads have restrictors". Sorry, but I can't vote for a person with no clue as to how to use a simple needle-nose pliers to remove the plastic restriction orifice!

LOLOLOLOL....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 14, 2015, 10:47:36 pm
A realistic analysis of the Paris Climate Agreement (not pretty):

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 15, 2015, 04:55:18 am
A realistic analysis of the Paris Climate Agreement (not pretty):

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/)

The fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....

Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 15, 2015, 07:38:25 am
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....

That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?

I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country.  What happened to us?  When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 15, 2015, 08:20:05 am
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....

That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?

I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country.  What happened to us?  When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?

Dennis

Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 15, 2015, 10:43:24 am
Trump Rally.

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 15, 2015, 12:15:15 pm
TRUMP 2016

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 15, 2015, 02:17:20 pm
Trump Rally.

 

Very good, Greg.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on December 15, 2015, 03:58:11 pm
Quote
The fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....

Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....

It is a start, but a rather limited one.
The big hope is that it is something to build on. By itself, it will not do the job.


Quote
Quote from: BallAquatics on Today at 04:38:25 AM

    Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 01:55:18 AM

        ....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....


    That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?

    I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country.  What happened to us?  When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?

    Dennis


Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....

I would argue a lot of it is due to the corrupting influence of unregulated big money on the election process.
Any noisy idiot can get noticed by spending a lot of money.
Media presence increases the popularity of many of them.
Corporate interests fund PR in order to further line their pockets.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 15, 2015, 04:01:19 pm
Quote
The fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....

Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....

It is a start, but a rather limited one.
The big hope is that it is something to build on. By itself, it will not do the job.


Quote
Quote from: BallAquatics on Today at 04:38:25 AM

    Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 01:55:18 AM

        ....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....


    That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?

    I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country.  What happened to us?  When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?

    Dennis


Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....

I would argue a lot of it is due to the corrupting influence of unregulated big money on the election process.
Any noisy idiot can get noticed by spending a lot of money.
Media presence increases the popularity of many of them.
Corporate interests fund PR in order to further line their pockets.

" I read it on the internet, so it must be true"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 15, 2015, 05:57:58 pm
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 17, 2015, 08:09:34 pm
(http://comicincorrect.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dole-Help-600-nrd.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 19, 2015, 03:24:29 pm
My favorite cable news anchor,  ACN's Will McAvoy.....


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 19, 2015, 06:57:14 pm
(https://pics-keycdn.slickpic.com/MTI0NjA2YjQxMDA3NzA,/20151219/MTE3MjE0NjIwNzAw/p/1600/trump_putin.png)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 19, 2015, 08:27:45 pm
 http://trump-putin2016.com/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 20, 2015, 03:05:28 pm
Middle East policy...?

(http://45.media.tumblr.com/e1de242ba13d287c83f8549cec2e80f9/tumblr_nxz6gfgzeX1uluhv2o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 20, 2015, 03:24:42 pm
 Yep :(
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 20, 2015, 04:54:39 pm
 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trumps-terrifying-nuke-answer-at-the-debate-should-end-his-campaign-but-it-wont-20151216
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 20, 2015, 05:14:22 pm
It's starting to look like we are going to be in a no-win situation.  Trump or Clinton, I'm not interested in either of them being MY representative.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 20, 2015, 05:18:43 pm
Don't rule Bernie out quite yet. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on December 20, 2015, 05:23:08 pm
Don't rule Bernie out quite yet.

I'll probably declare as a democrat just to vote for him in the Ohio primary.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on December 20, 2015, 05:33:01 pm
We have open primaries down here in Mississippi.  The blacks as a voting block vote for Hillary.  Bernie should be more appealing to them with his message income equality.  I can't figure it.  Sometimes I wonder if it's because he's an old white guy.  I hate to think of our voters as superficial, but heck...look at Trump's popularity ::)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 20, 2015, 06:11:32 pm
While I like Bernie, I don't think that he can win...plus, being an Independent actually....he'll be lacking in any true support from either side of the aisle...his 'sound bites' are good, but he's lacking in any method to get them enacted....and that's a steep climb...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 27, 2015, 11:52:03 am
Barack Obama: Not Perfect But Certainly One of the Better Presidents Ever: The Facts

For Progressives, the Administration of President Obama has been a disappointment in many ways. Here at The Ring of Fire, we have had our own issues with Obama?s positions and actions on the environment, issuing permits allowing oil companies to drill in the Arctic, his questionable support for the secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership, his choice of a drug industry insider to head the Food and Drug Administration, and more.

Like all of those who have held executive office throughout U.S. history, President Obama is a flawed man. His promises of ?Hope and Change? have fallen far short of what Progressives had hoped for nearly eight years ago. Nonetheless, there has been progress ? and there are numbers to prove it. Before delving in to that question, however, let?s point out what President Obama?s job really is ? and what he has had to contend with during his tenure in office.

Many American voters have the idea that the President has the ability to do virtually anything. It is one of the unfortunate reasons that voter turnout for off-year elections and local races is so dismal. Too many voters ignore the political process seventy-five percent of the time, then suddenly turn all their attention to the presidential races every four years. This is one major reason that the Green Party has been so ineffective. Once every four years, they trot out their candidate for President ? but how much do you hear from them during mid-term elections?

This is a lesson that the right wing learned decades ago. Their strategy, played out over a fifty-year period, was to start by winning local elections, such as those for school boards, mayors? offices and city councils. From there, right-wing Republicans went on to target state legislatures and gubernatorial races. The next step was to capture Congress. It was a ground-up, step-by-step process that was carefully planned and executed ? and has almost succeeded.

Now, let?s take a look at the Office of the President. It is true that, as Head of State, the President has some significant powers. He (or she, as it may one day happen) commands the Armed Forces. S/he has the power to sign or veto legislation. The President may negotiate and enter into treaties with foreign governments. S/he can appoint ambassadors, judges and heads of federal agencies. However, these powers are subject to Congressional constraints; such actions must have the approval of Congress. This is an important aspect of American government that too few people understand (particularly since civics is not always taught effectively in our public schools, anymore).  Except in rare cases, a President cannot do anything if Congress stands in the way.

Since the day he took office, Congress has blocked President Obama at almost every turn. Senator Mitch McConnell infamously announced the GOP?s intention to make Obama a ?one-term president.?

That hasn?t been the worst of it. As an African-American with a non-European name, President Obama?s very presence in the Oval Office has brought out the ugly, egregious racism and ignorance that continues to run in the undercurrents of U.S. society. His citizenship and his patriotism has been repeatedly questioned and attacked in the mainstream corporate media ? the same media that bowed down and practically worshiped George W. Bush, arguably the worst President since Warren Harding.

This is a good place to start in examining the Obama Administration?s record ? particularly in light of the grinding opposition that he has had to face.

We?ll begin with the GOP?s biggest issue: federal spending. It is no secret that fiscally, the Administration of George W. Bush was an unmitigated disaster. When President Obama took office in January 2009, he inherited what amounted to a $1.4 trillion deficit. Since that time, the Obama Administration has managed to cut that figure by almost two-thirds, to $492 billion. Over the same period, GDP growth went from -5.4% to +3.5%.

Now, let?s consider the almighty stock market, generally regarded to be a measure of a nation?s economic health (a questionable claim ? though it certainly measures the economic well-being of the elite). When George W. Bush left office in the wake of Stock Market Crash II, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) stood at just under 8,000 ? having fell from its dizzy heights of 14,000 in October of 2007. Today, that number stands at over 17,500.

Obviously, the economic elites of this country have very little to complain about. But even those who actually work at producing tangible goods and real services for society have benefited. Under Bush II, there was a net loss of private sector jobs of 462,000. Under President Obama there has been a net gain of more than eight million. The unemployment rate is now at 5%. It was at 7.8% when Bush II left office. Not bad for a President whose policies have been labeled by the right wing as ?job killers.?

Finally, let?s look at the centerpiece of the Obama Administration?s accomplishments: the Affordable Care Act. For decades, rising health care costs and the control of U.S. health care by greed-driven, bottom-line private corporations had literally been killing Americans. These people died for no other reason than an inability to afford the medical attention they needed. Insurers routinely dropped customers if they contracted a ?catastrophic disease,? or denied coverage because of ?pre-existing conditions.? Huge amounts of health care dollars went directly into the pockets of overpaid CEOs and corporate shareholders instead of actual medical services. Millions more were driven into bankruptcy by medical bills that nobody else in the industrialized world would be expected to pay. It was a travesty that made the U.S. a target of scorn and pity among nations who have long guaranteed their citizens the right to health care.

The ACA, derisively labeled as ?Obamacare,? wasn?t the public option nor the single payer system that Progressives had pushed for. It kept profit-driven private insurers in the drivers? seat. Arguably, people are still falling through the cracks, particularly in ?red? states that have refused to create exchanges or expand Medicaid. Nonetheless, as of this year, 90% of Americans now have affordable health coverage. They can no longer be denied that coverage because of ?pre-existing conditions? or dropped because the cost of their treatment is cutting into some private health insurer?s bottom line. Before the ACA went into effect, approximately 18% of Americans lacked any health care coverage at all ? and many more were struggling to afford extortion-level insurance payments, with no guarantee that they would actually be covered, should the need arise.

These are just the major accomplishments of the Obama Administration over the past seven years. These battles were won despite a recalcitrant Congress determined to destroy him with lies and unfounded accusations, a GOP hell-bent on dismantling the ACA and rolling back any policy that would benefit the 98%, and a prostituted corporate media with the sole mission of destroying President Obama with more lies and distortions, whipping up racist hysteria among ignorant rednecks and other bigots.

Barack Hussein Obama may not have been everything that Progressives wanted and expected him to be. Nonetheless, he still compares favorably with one of America?s most beloved executives, President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Furthermore, while F.D.R. was forced to deal with the worst economic disaster and the most dire national emergency in U.S. history, he never had to deal with relentless corporate media attacks and race-based hatred. Given that President Obama has had to overcome these obstacles, facing his opposition with grace and  finesse (let?s just say it ? Mr. Obama has class), it?s a good bet that future historians will place our current President alongside  John F. Kennedy, Franklin Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln.

None of those men were perfect, by any means ? and neither is President Obama. But all things considered, he deserves to be remembered by future historians as one of the greatest executives to sit in the Oval Office.

http://trofire.com/2015/12/25/barack-hussein-obama-not-perfect-but-certainly-one-of-the-better-presidents-ever-the-facts/ (http://trofire.com/2015/12/25/barack-hussein-obama-not-perfect-but-certainly-one-of-the-better-presidents-ever-the-facts/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 28, 2015, 08:15:34 pm
I love a good fiction story every once in a while. Thanks Jon.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on December 29, 2015, 08:07:02 pm
Fiction,you mean like President Obama being a undercover Muslim.
You have already proved you are religiously intolerant,and since racism usually goes hand in hand with it i'm confident you're that too.

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on December 29, 2015, 08:25:34 pm
Fiction,you mean like President Obama being a undercover Muslim.
You have already proved you are religiously intolerant,and since racism usually goes hand in hand with it i'm confident you're that too.

 

Actually people that know me would refute you on the religious tolerance. And I doubt I'm a racist. My other half is in fact a minority. Born in another country. Came here legally though. And I never said I thought Hussein was moslem. While I doubt he's a Christian I can't say if he's moslem or not. There's not enough information to go on.

BTW if I am going to like or dislike someone it will be because of their character not their skin color
or ethnicity.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on December 31, 2015, 04:03:45 pm
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/12-31-15-babynewyear-1000.jpg)

"Let's see how cute you are after a year of listening to Donald Trump?"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 03, 2016, 09:23:30 am
....anybody else following this....?
.................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Armed militia, incl. Bundy bros, occupy forest reserve HQ in Oregon, call ?US patriots? to arms

Published time: 3 Jan, 2016 02:51
Edited time: 3 Jan, 2016 11:29

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy?s three sons and ?about 150? militiamen have occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ to protest the pending imprisonment of two Oregon ranchers accused of arson, arguing the federal government has no authority in local cases.

?We?re going to be freeing these lands up, and getting ranchers back to ranching, getting the loggers back to logging, getting the miners back to mining where they could do it under the protection of the people and not be afraid of this tyranny that?s been set upon them,? Ammon Bundy, who appears to be the leader of the group, said in a Facebook video posted by Sarah Dee Spurlock on Saturday.

more
https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-bundy-militia-oregon-ranchers/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 03, 2016, 09:38:16 am
Yes.  I consider them anarchists.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 03, 2016, 11:40:49 am
Bunch of idiots trying to play  army,and then when something happens you will have a bunch of people whining
 about it like ruby ridge and waco.

Same group that can't stop complaining about how lawless  the country has become,but think they can do as they please.

They need to have their ass kicked out    of there ASAP.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on January 03, 2016, 12:21:29 pm
They should have busted them when they pulled that crap before. They can't let them get away with this or more of these groups will spring up. >:(
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 03, 2016, 12:54:28 pm
I wonder if they brought their kids along dressed up like little soldiers and holding   signs.   
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 03, 2016, 12:57:42 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/26tPsQTJPV56kfcBi/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 03, 2016, 01:32:19 pm
They should have busted them when they pulled that crap before. They can't let them get away with this or more of these groups will spring up. >:(

Here's a report from CNN.....the text is better than the vids.....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 03, 2016, 03:15:15 pm
Looks like a bunch of confused people with guns, not knowing really what they are doing or why.
Guess they'll blame someone else if something goes wrong.

Republican party base on the loose?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 03, 2016, 03:55:01 pm
Actually reminds me of when Bush went into Iraq. A good well thought out idea.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 03, 2016, 07:13:25 pm
Very good, Bill |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 04, 2016, 08:54:50 am
Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 04, 2016, 10:00:17 am
Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis

 LOL,i just saw that about 10  minutes ago on the news. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 04, 2016, 11:50:53 am
YallQaeda waging YeeHawd 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 04, 2016, 11:55:16 am
 http://www.blogher.com/yokel-haram-or-vanillaisis-or-yallqaeda?wrap=blogher-topics/politics-news&crumb=24
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 04, 2016, 02:03:09 pm
The locals don't want them there and opening of the area's schools will not occur this week! wfwf

Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis (http://Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis)
Pretty funny!!!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 05, 2016, 06:26:52 am
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/473efef11d9da5d3dd98eae394dea113/tumblr_o0gs8e7qz01ql8t12o1_640.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 05, 2016, 08:18:07 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/1510750_938155666279202_8395063265213892564_n.jpg?oh=d66a9fd1c09d4c235e49aeda7677964e&oe=57071137)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 05, 2016, 08:22:28 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/535082_1036241843135536_7884407646071650151_n.jpg?oh=9ba0ac848120dc10886b0da39cb75ceb&oe=5743874E)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 09:55:16 am
http://www.youngcons.com/meme-perfectly-exposes-bias-in-coverage-of-oregon-protesters2/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:21:51 am
 Sure,the media was reporting it as a PEACEFUL PROTEST  while they were rioting,burning building and lobbing bricks and bottles at the police.
Just more Bullshit trying to justify what's going on now.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 11:18:59 am
WOW!  Hats off to President Obama for calling out Congress again.   |^|

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 12:18:18 pm
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10259843_10207585125413412_2154503289274035324_n.jpg?oh=b84018f5acf3e1f3f1a7ca54466a7d89&oe=574948A8)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 05, 2016, 03:34:00 pm
Oregon Considers Wall to Keep Out Angry White Men

(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Borowitz-Oregon-Considers-Wall-to-Keep-Out-Angry-White-Men1-690.jpg)

BURNS, OREGON (The Borowitz Report)?A majority of Oregonians favor building a twenty-foot wall along the border of their state to prevent angry white men from getting in, a poll released on Monday shows.

The survey indicates that Oregonians are fed up with irate male Caucasians pouring into their state and bringing with them guns, violence, and terrorism.

?This used to be such a nice state,? said Oregon State Senator Carol Foyler, a pro-wall lawmaker. ?Since the angry white men came here, parts of it are unrecognizable.?

But even as support for the Oregon wall grows, critics of the proposal say that it does nothing to address the fact that there are already thousands of angry white men living in the state.

Those critics favor forcibly removing the angry white men through mass deportations and resettling them elsewhere, possibly in Texas.

While some argue that the deportation of angry white men would separate them from their families, others believe that their families would be O.K. with seeing them go.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2016, 04:34:19 pm
Who thinks that the Repubs will sue the president over his newest executive action and who thinks that they are full of hot air/

I say hot air.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 05, 2016, 04:35:21 pm
Who thinks that the Repubs will sue the president over his newest executive action and who thinks that they are full of hot air/

I say hot air.

.....lots of hot air.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 07:21:26 pm
Did you hear the President this afternoon?  I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about.  I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.

The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like.  I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2016, 07:30:34 pm
Did you hear the President this afternoon?  I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about.  I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.

The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like.  I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....

Dennis

That's exactly what the President said.  He said that if we don't vote for them they will change their tunes.  He said. "I promise."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 08:00:17 pm
That's exactly what the President said.....

Yep, I was out in the car so I got to hear the entire talk.  To me, it was more like a talk than a speech.  No doubt the FOX, MSNBC, and CNN folks will spin it till it makes you dizzy and the actual message will be lost from the folks who can't be bothered to put forth the effort to see that they are well informed.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 09:42:12 pm
 "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

All gun control laws go against the 2nd. What part of " shall not be infringed." do people not understand?

And before you go on about a militia read Art. I, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which forbids the states from keeping "troops, or ships of war in time of peace," "without the consent of the Congress."

George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment

?I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.? ? Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

Elbridge Gerry


?What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.? ? Floor debate over the Second Amendment, August 17, 1789; I Annals of Congress, p. 750

Tenche Coxe

?The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ? the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.? ? Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788

?Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.?? Writing as A Pennsylvanian, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution; Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789, p. 2 col. 1
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:02:38 pm
So here's a simple question G,do you support what they are doing?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:24:30 pm
Did you hear the President this afternoon?  I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about. I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.

The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like.  I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....

Dennis

Where do you find the facts to support that claim? And in those polls what question is being asked?

Your statement about no fly would have also left your beloved senator Ted Kennedy unable to purchase a gun. He was also on the no fly list as are many others wrongly placed there.

As for felons:

U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(1), effective Oct. 12, 1999, states:

    "It shall be unlawful for any person ?

        (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year [...]

        (9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence -

    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce."

There are already enough unconstitutional gun laws on the books that aren't enforced. Just like our immigration laws. How about instead of new laws that take guns out of the hands of law abiding people we enforce those already there?

BTW none of these laws would have stopped any of these killings. Just look at Mexico. Toughest gun laws in the world. Could also look at Chicago. Toughest gun laws in the states. NY has some tough gun laws too. You never hear anyone killed by a gun there do you?

So what will stop a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun and good aim.

Although if you look at the Seattle Mall shooting all the citizen did was take aim and the guy fled and offed himself.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:25:07 pm
So here's a simple question G,do you support what they are doing?

What who is doing? There's a bunch of people doing a bunch of things. If you mean the Hammond thing I think they served their time. They served time for doing a controlled burn yet were labelled terrorists.

http://www.tsln.com/news/17302049-113/story.html
The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.

If you mean the Bundy thing I've really got no opinion. There is no reason to go in after them for occupying an empty building. All the government has to do is wait them out. In short order they will run out of vittles and water etc. Remember this was a pretty impromptu thing it's not like it was planned for years and they could stockpile supplies. And we don't need another Waco.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 pm
The so called  oregon patriots.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:41:19 pm
The so called  oregon patriots.

Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ilroost on January 05, 2016, 11:15:53 pm
All I have to say about all this is" They will have to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 11:30:07 pm
The so called  oregon patriots.

Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?

 So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 11:35:48 pm
All I have to say about all this is" They will have to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands"

Yes sir Mr Heston,but i don't think much force will be needed. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 07:48:22 am
The so called  oregon patriots.

Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?

 So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 08:34:29 am
The so called  oregon patriots.

Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?

 So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/

"Polling conducted last year by the Colorado College State of the Rockies project found that majorities of voters in each of six Western states ? Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming ? view the lands managed by the federal government as belonging to the nation."

Notice they didn't say Bundy's....?

Nice article....I'm sure there's more to it than the biased media propaganda that we read from both sides of the issue. One can only wonder just how much land would not be abused, polluted, if the government didn't control these lands...look what other corporations have done to land that they have worked, after it became available.....strip mining comes to mind first...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 09:16:25 am
The so called  oregon patriots.

Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?

 So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/


Notice they didn't say Bundy's....?

Nice article....I'm sure there's more to it than the biased media propaganda that we read from both sides of the issue. One can only wonder just how much land would not be abused, polluted, if the government didn't control these lands...look what other corporations have done to land that they have worked, after it became available.....strip mining comes to mind first...

Not really talking about the Bundy's ownership. States want their property back. Look at the map and how much land the Fed has confiscated.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/10/431223703/epa-says-it-released-3-million-gallons-of-contaminated-water-into-river

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-spill/

What would stop the Fed from coming in and taking all the resources beneath that land though?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 09:22:39 am
 I believe these extremists have made a tactical error in their choice of a wildlife refuge for their occupation.

""Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established on August 18, 1908, by President Theodore Roosevelt as the Lake Malheur Reservation. Roosevelt set aside unclaimed government lands encompassed by Malheur, Mud and Harney Lakes ?as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds.? The newly established ?Lake Malheur Reservation? was the 19th of 51 wildlife refuges created by Roosevelt during his tenure as president. At the time, Malheur was the third refuge in Oregon and one of only six refuges west of the Mississippi.""

more here: http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html

Hunters are also allowed to take certain species of birds in certain parts of the reserve. Right now it is hunting season for several species, including Goose, Duck, Chukar & Quail. And yet the park is closed due to the action of these militants. Hunters cannot be happy about this.

Furthermore, these people are objecting to government management of the land. They claim they are only against the Federal government's management of land, but let's face it, they really don't want any government telling them they can't exploit or use any public land any way they want to. This means they are objecting to any set asides for nature including the entire national park system, as begun by President Theodore Roosevelt. Is the American public really ready to back those who want to privatize and destroy our parks? These points must be focused on by the media, so the public knows what these extremists are really all about.

Right now it is very cold at the refuge, and snow covers the ground. All they really have to do is turn off the power to the park buildings. Then close the road. The idiots can leave whenever they want, but they cannot go back in until the situation is over. They can be arrested later.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 10:32:55 am
I believe these extremists have made a tactical error in their choice of a wildlife refuge for their occupation.


Right now it is very cold at the refuge, and snow covers the ground. All they really have to do is turn off the power to the park buildings. Then close the road. The idiots can leave whenever they want, but they cannot go back in until the situation is over. They can be arrested later.

It wasn't very well planned by any means.

As for just turning out the power and waiting where is the drama in that? The feds need the drama. Maybe they'll go in guns blazing. Another Waco. Or Kent State.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 06, 2016, 12:20:33 pm
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.

The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!


The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.

Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?

IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.

If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 06, 2016, 02:28:46 pm

 


 

 

IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.

 

Exactly,it would be there they go again thinking they don't have to follow the laws,and they think they can do whatever they want, break out the apache helicopters and teach  them a lesson.
 
 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 06, 2016, 02:54:12 pm
Your statement about no fly would have also left your beloved senator Ted Kennedy unable to purchase a gun. He was also on the no fly list as are many others wrongly placed there.

My beloved.....  LOL  I rest my case.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandatohttp://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandato/ (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandatohttp://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandato/)

Like I said before, I listened to the whole talk.  I didn't hear the President make any wild claims or say anything that wasn't true.

I've been an avid outdoors man all my life.  That's how I was brought up.  I own many firearms including a highly modified assault rifle.  I have no intention of giving up my guns, but if you actually listened to what the President said, he said nothing about gun control or taking away our rights to own firearms.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 03:26:12 pm
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.

The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!


The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.

Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?

IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.

If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!

Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 ?Hardie-Hammond? fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section.

The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.

Bill, there were errors on both sides. was it arson? I don't know. No one really knows. And if you ever look at trials the only "truth" that comes out is the truth the better lawyer wants to come out. And face it, the Fed can always get better lawyers since they are paying for it with our money.

Charging them with terrorism though was a bit far fetched.

Quote
"For these actions, they were sentenced to a year in jail, which possibly was appropriate, considering they endangered people?s lives. But the federal government, citing an anti-terrorism law that sets a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for arson on federal land, demanded that they be re-sentenced. Having already served the first year, they were scheduled to be re-incarcerated for four more years after the new year."


Again, Bill, my other half is a minority. A legal immigrant. Might want to think about your remarks before you put them on the net.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 03:42:23 pm
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.

The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!


The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.

Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?

IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.

If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!

Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 ?Hardie-Hammond? fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section.

The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.

Bill, there were errors on both sides. was it arson? I don't know. No one really knows. And if you ever look at trials the only "truth" that comes out is the truth the better lawyer wants to come out. And face it, the Fed can always get better lawyers since they are paying for it with our money.

Charging them with terrorism though was a bit far fetched.

Quote
"For these actions, they were sentenced to a year in jail, which possibly was appropriate, considering they endangered people?s lives. But the federal government, citing an anti-terrorism law that sets a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for arson on federal land, demanded that they be re-sentenced. Having already served the first year, they were scheduled to be re-incarcerated for four more years after the new year."


Again, Bill, my other half is a minority. A legal immigrant. Might want to think about your remarks before you put them on the net.

I think if you'll do bit more research, you'll find that they set fires more than once....but only care to refer to the one where they had permission....it's the others that were witnessed by a whole fire brigade, and others, that got them in trouble.........

ps....caps/ large print/ bold type....WOW ...that's a lot of screaming.....wake any neighbors yet?.....LOL......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 05:40:12 pm
Enraged Birders To Retake Oregon Wildlife Refuge In Dawn Offensive

(http://i1.wp.com/www.breakingburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/PDusgov_bird_watchers.jpg?resize=777%2C437)
Birders preparing to recapture the Oregon wildlife refuge.



[Burns, OR] The armed militants who have occupied the Oregon wildlife refuge may be encouraged the apparent lack of response by government authorities. But their stand is reportedly doomed anyway, since they picked the worst possible location to make their point, according to a source at the American Birding Association.

?The Malheur sanctuary is home to approximately 320 avian species beloved by birders. BIG mistake.?

The nearby town of Burns has seen a rapid influx of birders who are determined to eject the illegal occupiers. The birders possess a number of advantages when it comes to combat in open terrain, according to those familiar with the hobby.

?They are masters of disguise who know how to blend into the outdoor environment, whereas the enemy, with their pickups, massive guns, and loud obnoxious personalities, tend to stick out like a sore thumb.?

The birders are also exceptionally skilled at spotting the enemy first so they will have the full advantage of surprise, and their uniform of loose fitting garments and comfortable walking shoes means they are quick and light on their feet, much like the Viet Cong during the Vietnam war. They are also equally ruthless when pushed.

?Just try referring to them as bird watchers instead of birders and see what happens. I guarantee that you will never do it again.?

The self-described patriots? assault rifles and armored vests will be of little protection against their ornithological foe.

?Before you even know what?s happened they sneak up behind you and clobber you with a sturdy walking cane or large-caliber spotting scope.?

It?s possible the birders will adopt an extended siege strategy, which they would undoubtedly win due to their ability to live off nuts and berries, whereas the militants have already put out a desperate call for snacks. But those close to the birders think that unlikely.

?The birders are angry, and they want blood.?

http://www.breakingburgh.com/enraged-birders-to-retake-oregon-wildlife-refuge-in-dawn-offensive/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 06, 2016, 06:15:33 pm
The Birders!
No wonder those clowns needed to bring along their guns!

G: Too bad you have no idea about what your screaming about. You should listen to the country DA, not Faux News.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 07:10:53 pm
I know exactly what I am "screaming" about. Looking back over previous discussion Bill I realize if I don't highlight which parts of your statements I am referring to you lose track. I do it simply to help you. I am after all a very considerate person Bill.

BTW Bill, as I... Bill, over here, focus now, Bill. BILL FOCUS...anyway as I have said before, Bill, FOCUS BILL, I don't watch Fox News Bill.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 07:19:12 pm
I know exactly what I am "screaming" about. Looking back over previous discussion Bill I realize if I don't highlight which parts of your statements I am referring to you lose track. I do it simply to help you. I am after all a very considerate person Bill.

BTW Bill, as I... Bill, over here, focus now, Bill. BILL FOCUS...anyway as I have said before, Bill, FOCUS BILL, I don't watch Fox News Bill.

 huh huh huh what?  huh huh huh
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 06, 2016, 08:11:03 pm
Quote
I don't watch Fox News Bill

What?
You make that stuff up all by yourself?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 10:26:09 pm
Quote
I don't watch Fox News Bill

What?
You make that stuff up all by yourself?

Unlike you Bill I keep an open mind. I have not been brainwashed by the liberal media and think for myself after due diligence.

Bill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 06:31:06 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6555-1.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 06:32:39 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6549.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 06:35:43 am
Obama Continues to Stubbornly Link Gun Violence with Guns

(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Borowitz-Obama-Stubbornly-Links-Gun-Violence-with-Guns-690.jpg)

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Republican Presidential candidates ripped President Obama on Tuesday for what they called his stubborn insistence on linking gun violence with guns.

In campaign stops across Iowa and New Hampshire, the G.O.P. hopefuls pounded the President for irrationally concluding that guns have played a role in the nation?s epidemic of mass shootings.

?How any reasonable person could look at gun violence and say that guns are involved is beyond me,? said Texas Senator Ted Cruz. ?And yet, somehow, President Obama always finds a way.?

?I would very much like to have a conversation about gun violence, as President Obama has said he wants to have,? said Florida Senator Marco Rubio. ?But as long as he keeps falling back on this tired, unproven connection between gun violence and guns, there?s just no point.?

The former Hewlett-Packard C.E.O. Carly Fiorina said that Obama?s persistent linking of gun violence with guns was ?sad but not surprising, from a man who believes that people?s health can be improved by access to health care.?

?He isn?t thinking straight,? she said.

Of all the candidates, though, the retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson was perhaps the most scathing in his assessment of the President?s remarks. ?Even if every gun in the world suddenly disappeared, there would still be gun violence,? he said.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 09:15:19 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

I sure do....you can go to certain sections of most any major city and get shot at....I can go down to Chicago, Mexico City, Juarez, Tijuana, LA, etc and feel perfectly safe...you just don't go to where the 'Do-Do birds' are........by the by, Tampa/ St. Pete/ Miami, etc. aren't much better, eh?....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:36:49 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

Same old ridiculous argument,SEE  they have tough gun laws and still have crime.
 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:42:57 am
John, Tampa/St. Pete isn't even in the top 25.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:44:23 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

Same old ridiculous argument,SEE  they have tough gun laws and still have crime.

Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:48:22 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

I sure do....you can go to certain sections of most any major city and get shot at....I can go down to Chicago, Mexico City, Juarez, Tijuana, LA, etc and feel perfectly safe...you just don't go to where the 'Do-Do birds' are........by the by, Tampa/ St. Pete/ Miami, etc. aren't much better, eh?....

Mexico has experienced increasingly high crime rates, especially in major urban centers. The country's great economic polarization has stimulated criminal activity in the lower socioeconomic strata, which include the majority of the country's population. Crime continues at high levels, and is repeatedly marked by violence, especially in the cities of Tijuana and Ciudad Ju?rez, and the states of Baja California, Durango, Sinaloa, Guerrero, Chihuahua, Michoac?n, Tamaulipas, and Nuevo Le?n.[1] Other metropolitan areas have lower, yet still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates contribute to the high crime rate.

Crime Threats

Tijuana is a very large metropolitan city with an ever-present, very real crime problem. Pickpockets and purse snatchers are common and mostly occur in large crowds, on public transportation, and at tourist attractions. Credit card fraud, ATM card, and telephone card fraud is common. Tijuana is a highly strategic location for narcotic and human trafficking, and violent crime continues to be a part of everyday life.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:51:37 am
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:56:45 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

Same old ridiculous argument,SEE  they have tough gun laws and still have crime.

Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.

So you don't think tough gun laws HELPS  keep the guns out of the criminals hands.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:57:42 am
I just love this article from Bloomberg

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-10-06/the-problem-with-using-chicago-to-make-the-case-against-gun-control

Quote
But advocates for tougher restrictions say Trump?s and Christie?s arguments do not take into account two key features of the Chicago's gun landscape. The first is that, though it?s hard to get a gun in Chicago, it?s much easier to get one in the city?s immediate vicinity. The second feature is the city?s high level of gang activity, and that gangs are both adept at procuring guns illegally and prone to involvement in shooting incidents.

So what they are in effect saying is that it is really easy to get a gun illegally in Chicago. Unless you want to do it legally. The stupid is strong in this article. The only thing the laws do is keep guns out of the hands of those that want them legally. The criminal doesn't care about the law or they wouldn't be a criminal.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:58:45 am
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?

Same old ridiculous argument,SEE  they have tough gun laws and still have crime.

Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.

So you don't think tough gun laws HELPS  keep the guns out of the criminals hands.



The only way it would help is if criminals obeyed the law. If they obeyed the law they wouldn't be criminals now would they?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 10:01:59 am
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.


Read real news, G....

Chicago murders up this year..
(http://heyjackass.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/murder_trend-2015_2-495x418.png)

read real stats too....
http://heyjackass.com/ (http://heyjackass.com/)

Yup, south Chicago is a gang nightmare....but you have no clue how bad from all the chosen media that you choose to read.....your preaching to the choir



Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:42:46 am
Jon, not sure what the political slant of the first two are at all:

http://www.illinoismirror.com/one-year-after-concealed-carry-chicago-homicide-rate-plunges-to-56-year-low/

Quote
Just a year ago, Illinois finally became the last state in the nation to legalize concealed carry, albeit at a heavily regulated, watered-down basic level. In addition to stipulating dozens of gun-free zones, the Illinois law also prices permits at $600 and requires 16 hours of training ? adversely affecting people in low-income areas that are most susceptible to crime and gun violence (vs. $70 for those below the poverty line and four to six hours of training in Texas).
Still, very few in the Illinois media have bothered to report that the Chicago crime rate has dropped while conceal-carry permits have surged ? directly contradicting predictions that the opposite would happen. The city?s homicide rate has now plummeted to a 56-year low since the concealed-carry law was enacted:
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
 
?It isn?t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don?t know who?s armed and who isn?t has a deterrence effect,? said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. ?The police department hasn?t changed a single tactic ? they haven?t announced a shift in policy or of course ? and yet you have these incredible numbers.?

http://truthinmedia.com/crime-rates-in-chicago-plummet-after-il-implements-concealed-carry/

I do know that NBC is historically left wing.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Chicago-Crime-Reaches-Historic-Low-in-2014-287282501.html

Quote
Chicago closed 2014 with what police said were ?historic lows? in crime and murder numbers.
The year saw a drop of 3 percent in murders, marking the lowest murder rate since 1965, when there were 397, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy.

The one question I would have Jon about your chart is: "How many of those murders were committed with legally obtained and owned guns?"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 11:47:22 am
Jon, not sure what the political slant of the first two are at all:

http://www.illinoismirror.com/one-year-after-concealed-carry-chicago-homicide-rate-plunges-to-56-year-low/

Quote
Just a year ago, Illinois finally became the last state in the nation to legalize concealed carry, albeit at a heavily regulated, watered-down basic level. In addition to stipulating dozens of gun-free zones, the Illinois law also prices permits at $600 and requires 16 hours of training ? adversely affecting people in low-income areas that are most susceptible to crime and gun violence (vs. $70 for those below the poverty line and four to six hours of training in Texas).
Still, very few in the Illinois media have bothered to report that the Chicago crime rate has dropped while conceal-carry permits have surged ? directly contradicting predictions that the opposite would happen. The city?s homicide rate has now plummeted to a 56-year low since the concealed-carry law was enacted:
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
 
?It isn?t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don?t know who?s armed and who isn?t has a deterrence effect,? said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. ?The police department hasn?t changed a single tactic ? they haven?t announced a shift in policy or of course ? and yet you have these incredible numbers.?

http://truthinmedia.com/crime-rates-in-chicago-plummet-after-il-implements-concealed-carry/

I do know that NBC is historically left wing.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Chicago-Crime-Reaches-Historic-Low-in-2014-287282501.html

Quote
Chicago closed 2014 with what police said were ?historic lows? in crime and murder numbers.
The year saw a drop of 3 percent in murders, marking the lowest murder rate since 1965, when there were 397, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy.

The one question I would have Jon about your chart is: "How many of those murders were committed with legally obtained and owned guns?"

I image those numbers are out there...but it's no consequence to the fact that to dead it's a mute point...

Slant?... huh   facts have no slant.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 am
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 12:07:37 pm
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 12:26:34 pm
 Sure,arm EVERYONE,that's the answer.Wild wild west shit.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 03:18:01 pm
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....

Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.

Quote
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.


Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 07, 2016, 03:31:36 pm
Anyone else feel like we're going around in circles?  I'm dizzy wfwf
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 07, 2016, 03:35:35 pm
Quote
Unlike you Bill I keep an open mind.
There is no evidence of this, as is the case for so many of your foolish claims only a child would fall for.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 07, 2016, 03:40:33 pm
Quote
Bill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?

I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.

I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 07, 2016, 04:03:22 pm
Here is an interesting little article that seems to explain a certain person's inability to rationally discuss things:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-appear-to-be-misinformed-not-uninformed/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-appear-to-be-misinformed-not-uninformed/)

For example:
Quote
As Kuklinski and his colleagues established, in the U.S., the most misinformed citizens tend to be the most confident in their views and are also the strongest partisans. These folks fill the gaps in their knowledge base by using their existing belief systems. Once these inferences are stored into memory, they become ?indistinguishable from hard data,? Kuklinski and his colleagues found.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 04:44:04 pm
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....

Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.

Quote
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.


Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ

Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'

try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 07, 2016, 05:15:55 pm
No but we can mock the soundness of his arguments and his disconnect with reality, which is pretty fun!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 06:52:47 pm
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....

Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.

Quote
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.


Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ

Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'

try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D

Jon, he did take the guns from his mother. After he murdered her of course. That made the guns illegal.

The point is Jon, all of these unconstitutional gun laws don't pertain to criminals. It won't stop them. All these unconstitutional gun laws do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens trying to defend themselves Jon. And it's really tough when the government puts the guns out there themselves ala fast and furious for one example.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on January 07, 2016, 06:56:02 pm
Anyone else feel like we're going around in circles?  I'm dizzy wfwf

Yep! WTF! (That's Welcome to Facebook...!)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 06:59:10 pm
Quote
Bill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?

I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.

I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?

You really don't pay any attention do you Bill?
I have stated many times that I do support global warming. What I don't support is the insane liberal belief in man made GW.

The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.

Bill the relevant part is in about the last 15 minutes Bill.

You do favor the personal attacks though don't you Bill?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 07:00:48 pm
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?

What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.

It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....

Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.

Quote
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.


Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ

Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'

try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D

Jon, he did take the guns from his mother. After he murdered her of course. That made the guns illegal.

The point is Jon, all of these unconstitutional gun laws don't pertain to criminals. It won't stop them. All these unconstitutional gun laws do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens trying to defend themselves Jon. And it's really tough when the government puts the guns out there themselves ala fast and furious for one example.

sheesh.....that was my point !!...she was the registered owner...not him....he got illegal guns......come on now, pick a side, or read more carefully...

this what I said above....""It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...

Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....""
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 07:02:38 pm
Quote
Bill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?

I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.

I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?

You really don't pay any attention do you Bill?
I have stated many times that I do support global warming. What I don't support is the insane liberal belief in man made GW.

The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.

Bill the relevant part is in about the last 15 minutes Bill.

You do favor the personal attacks though don't you Bill?

'G' the world is warming...'G' human population and life styles have accelerated the warming too......'G' whiz....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 07:45:13 pm
INSANE  belief of man made global warming,lol.
Here's a clue,it's not the scientists that are insane.

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 08:11:40 pm
Drink up!
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 07, 2016, 08:16:13 pm
Quote
The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.

1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 08:55:26 pm
Let me take a wild guess G,you   also don't support decriminalizing marijuana,a woman's right to choose or same sex marriage.
All evil plots to destroy this once  great nation. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 12:15:01 pm
Donald Trump and Marco Rubio are sitting in a bar.
A guy walks in and asks the barman, "Isn't that Trump and Rubio sitting over there?"
The bartender says, "Yep, that's them."
So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honour, what are you guys doing in here?"
Trump says, "We're planning WW III."
The guy says, "Really, what's going to happen?"
Trump says, "Well, we're going to kill 140 million Muslims and one blonde with big tits."
The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big tits, why kill a blonde with big boobs?"
Trump turns to Rubio and says, "See, I told you, no one gives a damn about 140 million Muslims."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 12:21:43 pm
Quote
The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.

1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.

No Bill I don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.

Here's the relevant transcript Bill.

Quote
PETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.

NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.

To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.

Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.

With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.

But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.

At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.

And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.

So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.

In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.

Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.

So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.

During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.

When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.

And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.

PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.

NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.

That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.

The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.

PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.

NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.

PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.

NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 12:23:29 pm
Let me take a wild guess G,you   also don't support decriminalizing marijuana,a woman's right to choose or same sex marriage.
All evil plots to destroy this once  great nation.

I'm going to pretend I'm Bill and gloss over that.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 12:32:36 pm
Quote
The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.

1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.

No Bill I don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.

Here's the relevant transcript Bill.

Quote
PETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.

NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.

To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.

Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.

With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.

But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.

At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.

And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.

So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.

In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.

Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.

So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.

During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.

When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.

And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.

PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.

NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.

That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.

The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.

PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.

NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.

PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.

NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world.

Balderdash....LOL.....more smoke and mirrors....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 08, 2016, 01:16:59 pm
Quote
I don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.

What does this even mean??

Here's the relevant transcript Bill.

Quote

    PETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.

    NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.

    To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.

    Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.

    With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.

    But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.

    At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.

    And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.

    So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.

    In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.

    Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.

    So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.

    During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.

    When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.

    And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.

    PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.

    NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.

    That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.

    The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.

    PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.

    NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.

    PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.

    NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world. (http://Here's the relevant transcript Bill.

Quote

    PETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.

    NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.

    To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.

    Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.

    With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.

    But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.

    At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.

    And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.

    So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.

    In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.

    Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.

    So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.

    During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.

    When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.

    And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.

    PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.

    NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.

    That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.

    The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.

    PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.

    NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.

    PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.

    NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world.)

This is more of a commentary on their activities than a scientific analysis.
Its a kind of shaky conclusion. Lots of probablies piled on top of each other and not supported by any other source of information like a normal scientific argument would have.
A backup publication (peer reviewed) would be much more convincing.

Also no mention of any specific temperatures, so not really clear about what they are talking about.
A fast temperature change at the end of an ice age, not too surprising.

Quote
Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.
This just sounds like they saw ice ages happening. Big deal. Not relevant.

I think you would do better if you had an understanding of the arguments you are trying to make. Of course that would require a more critical eye for the data.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 01:37:28 pm
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.

More Kool Aid anyone?


Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.

Man has only been here for that length of time however.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 01:43:22 pm
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.

More Kool Aid anyone?


Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.

Man has only been here for that length of time however.

I don't believe that anyone asked you how old the world was...huh?.....more red herring 'G'....you seem to pick out only a part of the discussion and take off on a diversion slant to la la land......please focus....you can do it....come on...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 08, 2016, 01:58:52 pm
Quote
Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.

Man has only been here for that length of time however.

Although some Bible events have been supported by archeological and historical analyses, the Bible has a very poor record of providing information on geological events.

Archaeology and modern genetics has blown those dates away. Dogs have been domesticated for longer than that.

But you just keep retreating to your close minded beliefs in the face of a world of inconvenient facts.
I am thinking this helps you because the world scares you.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 02:45:36 pm
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.

More Kool Aid anyone?


Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.

Man has only been here for that length of time however.

I don't believe that anyone asked you how old the world was...huh?.....more red herring 'G'....you seem to pick out only a part of the discussion and take off on a diversion slant to la la land......please focus....you can do it....come on...

It stems from Bill's comment Jon.

Quote
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 03:15:02 pm
..ok, we've gone from guns to suns yada yada...now to beliefs, and Bibles...where next... huh
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 08, 2016, 05:36:06 pm
Hookers and Cocaine.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2016, 06:43:29 pm
Hookers and Cocaine.

Beer mim and  w!w would suit my taste more ;)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 06:53:34 pm
Hookers and Cocaine.

Beer mim and  w!w would suit my taste more ;)

LOL.....maybe in Jamaica tho  w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on January 08, 2016, 07:03:36 pm
Hookers and Cocaine.

Beer mim and  w!w would suit my taste more ;)

LOL.....maybe in Jamaica tho  w!w

Why Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2016, 07:09:23 pm
Jamaica sounds better to me, but who would take care of the fish?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 07:18:19 pm
Jamaica sounds better to me, but who would take care of the fish?

lights off...they're good for a few days, or so.... ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 08, 2016, 08:55:50 pm
Quote
Why Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w

You could do it legal out here in Oregon.

Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on January 09, 2016, 12:16:08 pm
Quote
Why Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w

You could do it legal out here in Oregon.

Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.

Or here in Washington.  But Jamaica is warmer...!  w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 09, 2016, 12:48:32 pm
Quote
Why Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w

You could do it legal out here in Oregon.

Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.

Or here in Washington.  But Jamaica is warmer...!  w!w

...yes, it is......Aruba is pretty nice too.... w!w
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 12:54:01 pm
The hot weather and the beach are necessary in this case. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 09, 2016, 01:14:40 pm
The hot weather and the beach are necessary in this case.

+1.....heck, if I hit the Powerball tonight.....I'll buy a whole freak'n island  |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|

I really liked Brando's over by Tahiti.... =;-)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 01:42:09 pm
If you hit Powerball pay our air fare and hotel to the island before you decide to buy it.  An expensive purchase like that should get a test drive before you commit.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 09, 2016, 01:44:08 pm
If you hit Powerball pay our air fare and hotel to the island before you decide to buy it.  An expensive purchase like that should get a test drive before you commit.

Oh hell yes.....we'll do a group tour... w!w

Altho Brando's place had no hotels....LOL.....you'll all need to bring hammocks  |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 01:50:45 pm
Hammocks, of course, as well as mosquito netting and lots of deet.  I hope you win.  Can I bring my number one dog?  Saint Puppy would have the time of his life.  He wouldn't bark all night long but he would keep an eye open.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 09, 2016, 02:06:20 pm
Hammocks, of course, as well as mosquito netting and lots of deet.  I hope you win.  Can I bring my number one dog?  Saint Puppy would have the time of his life.  He wouldn't bark all night long but he would keep an eye open.

Mosquito's? ...screw Brando's islands.....we're off to Bora Bora...Cook Islands then......one of the few places without mosquitoes  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

bring your swim suits, snorkels, etc....great diving there too..... |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 11, 2016, 09:51:25 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6556.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 11, 2016, 09:56:55 am
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?A day after President Obama held a nationally televised town hall about guns in America, a new poll shows that a majority of Republicans would rather actually be shot by a firearm than agree with him.

In an indication of the challenges facing the President in persuading Republicans, those surveyed named a wide variety of specific guns that they would choose to be personally shot by rather than seeing eye to eye with Obama.

When asked to state their preference, forty-three per cent stated ?handgun,? twenty-seven per cent replied ?shotgun,? twenty-one per cent responded ?assault rifle,? while only two per cent named ?agreeing with Obama.?

The poll results are reminiscent of a poll taken last month about climate change, in which a majority of Republicans said they would rather see their habitat destroyed by rising sea levels than agree with President Obama.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 11, 2016, 02:07:01 pm
There is none so blind.....
              John Heywood 1546
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 11, 2016, 07:11:30 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12391061_1027519093977260_7244403603552556477_n.jpg?oh=2c7243e47331b53c8a55713628c011e3&oe=56FC0351)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 11, 2016, 07:56:27 pm
 |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 13, 2016, 02:31:30 pm
SOTU in (4) minutes.... |^|

https://r4---sn-nx5e6n7d.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?requiressl=yes&fexp=9408209%2C9408552%2C9416126%2C9419452%2C9420452%2C9421666%2C9422596%2C9423241%2C9423282%2C9423662%2C9423749%2C9426214%2C9426217%2C9426483%2C9427016&itag=22&ip=73.157.236.110&pl=17&ipbits=0&initcwndbps=2298750&nh=IgpwcjAyLnNlYTAzKgkxMjcuMC4wLjE&key=yt6&upn=xuca-e7TqCU&dur=255.651&ratebypass=yes&expire=1452737073&lmt=1452665667109912&ms=au&mv=m&mt=1452715416&mn=sn-nx5e6n7d&source=youtube&sver=3&sparams=dur%2Cid%2Cinitcwndbps%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Clmt%2Cmime%2Cmm%2Cmn%2Cms%2Cmv%2Cnh%2Cpl%2Cratebypass%2Crequiressl%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&id=o-AFUWR6HXo0iaXC-MEHXTY2pi3Y_xAPADaJ_tikcwXi2E&mm=31&signature=9EE9782EC3B25F9230CFA1257F74ECCD6C1CEC2C.0E8C195798D8597CC458BAD1D9FCF7FDD04F3D89&mime=video%2Fmp4 (https://r4---sn-nx5e6n7d.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?requiressl=yes&fexp=9408209%2C9408552%2C9416126%2C9419452%2C9420452%2C9421666%2C9422596%2C9423241%2C9423282%2C9423662%2C9423749%2C9426214%2C9426217%2C9426483%2C9427016&itag=22&ip=73.157.236.110&pl=17&ipbits=0&initcwndbps=2298750&nh=IgpwcjAyLnNlYTAzKgkxMjcuMC4wLjE&key=yt6&upn=xuca-e7TqCU&dur=255.651&ratebypass=yes&expire=1452737073&lmt=1452665667109912&ms=au&mv=m&mt=1452715416&mn=sn-nx5e6n7d&source=youtube&sver=3&sparams=dur%2Cid%2Cinitcwndbps%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Clmt%2Cmime%2Cmm%2Cmn%2Cms%2Cmv%2Cnh%2Cpl%2Cratebypass%2Crequiressl%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&id=o-AFUWR6HXo0iaXC-MEHXTY2pi3Y_xAPADaJ_tikcwXi2E&mm=31&signature=9EE9782EC3B25F9230CFA1257F74ECCD6C1CEC2C.0E8C195798D8597CC458BAD1D9FCF7FDD04F3D89&mime=video%2Fmp4)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 15, 2016, 11:22:27 am
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 16, 2016, 10:07:29 pm
CHUMP
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 16, 2016, 10:39:06 pm
I wanted him to get the nomination because he could never win the general election.  Trump will not get the nomination.  The republican I most fear is Ted Cruise.  He's smart.  He could win.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 17, 2016, 06:25:40 am
I wanted him to get the nomination because he could never win the general election.  Trump will not get the nomination.  The republican I most fear is Ted Cruise.  He's smart.  He could win.

Cruz is a basket case ...and will never be ready for 'prime time'..
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 17, 2016, 07:28:00 am

Noam Chomsky Has 'Never Seen Anything Like This'

By Chris Hedges / truthdig.com

Noam Chomsky is America?s greatest intellectual. His massive body of work, which includes nearly 100 books, has for decades deflated and exposed the lies of the power elite and the myths they perpetrate. Chomsky has done this despite being blacklisted by the commercial media, turned into a pariah by the academy and, by his own admission, being a pedantic and at times slightly boring speaker. He combines moral autonomy with rigorous scholarship, a remarkable grasp of detail and a searing intellect. He curtly dismisses our two-party system as a mirage orchestrated by the corporate state, excoriates the liberal intelligentsia for being fops and courtiers and describes the drivel of the commercial media as a form of ?brainwashing.? And as our nation?s most prescient critic of unregulated capitalism, globalization and the poison of empire, he enters his 81st year warning us that we have little time left to save our anemic democracy.

?It is very similar to late Weimar Germany,? Chomsky told me when I called him at his office in Cambridge, Mass. ?The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system. The most striking fact about Weimar was not that the Nazis managed to destroy the Social Democrats and the Communists but that the traditional parties, the Conservative and Liberal parties, were hated and disappeared. It left a vacuum which the Nazis very cleverly and intelligently managed to take over.?

?The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,? Chomsky went on. ?Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like McCarthy or Nixon or the evangelist preachers. If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ?I have got an answer, we have an enemy?? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority. We will be told we have to defend ourselves and the honor of the nation. Military force will be exalted. People will be beaten up. This could become an overwhelming force. And if it happens it will be more dangerous than Germany. The United States is the world power. Germany was powerful but had more powerful antagonists. I don?t think all this is very far away. If the polls are accurate it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election.?

?I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime,? Chomsky added. ?I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today. But it was hopeful. People had hope. The CIO was organizing. No one wants to say it anymore but the Communist Party was the spearhead for labor and civil rights organizing. Even things like giving my unemployed seamstress aunt a week in the country. It was a life. There is nothing like that now. The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.?

?I listen to talk radio,? Chomsky said. ?I don?t want to hear Rush Limbaugh. I want to hear the people calling in. They are like [suicide pilot] Joe Stack. What is happening to me? I have done all the right things. I am a God-fearing Christian. I work hard for my family. I have a gun. I believe in the values of the country and my life is collapsing.?

Chomsky has, more than any other American intellectual, charted the downward spiral of the American political and economic system, in works such as ?On Power and Ideology: The Managua Lectures,? ?Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and US Political Culture,? ?A New Generation Draws the Line: Kosovo, East Timor and the Standards of the West,? ?Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky,? ?Manufacturing Consent? and ?Letters From Lexington: Reflections on Propaganda.? He reminds us that genuine intellectual inquiry is always subversive. It challenges cultural and political assumptions. It critiques structures. It is relentlessly self-critical. It implodes the self-indulgent myths and stereotypes we use to elevate ourselves and ignore our complicity in acts of violence and oppression. And it makes the powerful, as well as their liberal apologists, deeply uncomfortable.

Chomsky reserves his fiercest venom for the liberal elite in the press, the universities and the political system who serve as a smoke screen for the cruelty of unchecked capitalism and imperial war. He exposes their moral and intellectual posturing as a fraud. And this is why Chomsky is hated, and perhaps feared, more among liberal elites than among the right wing he also excoriates. When Christopher Hitchens decided to become a windup doll for the Bush administration after the attacks of 9/11, one of the first things he did was write a vicious article attacking Chomsky. Hitchens, unlike most of those he served, knew which intellectual in America mattered. [Editor?s note: To see some of the articles in the 2001 exchanges between Hitchens and Chomsky, click here, here, here and here.]

?I don?t bother writing about Fox News,? Chomsky said. ?It is too easy. What I talk about are the liberal intellectuals, the ones who portray themselves and perceive themselves as challenging power, as courageous, as standing up for truth and justice. They are basically the guardians of the faith. They set the limits. They tell us how far we can go. They say, ?Look how courageous I am.? But do not go one millimeter beyond that. At least for the educated sectors, they are the most dangerous in supporting power.?

Chomsky, because he steps outside of every group and eschews all ideologies, has been crucial to American discourse for decades, from his work on the Vietnam War to his criticisms of the Obama administration. He stubbornly maintains his position as an iconoclast, one who distrusts power in any form.

?Most intellectuals have a self-understanding of themselves as the conscience of humanity,? said the Middle East scholar Norman Finkelstein. ?They revel in and admire someone like Vaclav Havel. Chomsky is contemptuous of Havel. Chomsky embraces the Julien Benda view of the world. There are two sets of principles. They are the principles of power and privilege and the principles of truth and justice. If you pursue truth and justice it will always mean a diminution of power and privilege. If you pursue power and privilege it will always be at the expense of truth and justice. Benda says that the credo of any true intellectual has to be, as Christ said, ?my kingdom is not of this world.? Chomsky exposes the pretenses of those who claim to be the bearers of truth and justice. He shows that in fact these intellectuals are the bearers of power and privilege and all the evil that attends it.?

?Some of Chomsky?s books will consist of things like analyzing the misrepresentations of the Arias plan in Central America, and he will devote 200 pages to it,? Finkelstein said. ?And two years later, who will have heard of Oscar Arias? It causes you to wonder would Chomsky have been wiser to write things on a grander scale, things with a more enduring quality so that you read them forty or sixty years later. This is what Russell did in books like ?Marriage and Morals.? Can you even read any longer what Chomsky wrote on Vietnam and Central America? The answer has to often be no. This tells you something about him. He is not writing for ego. If he were writing for ego he would have written in a grand style that would have buttressed his legacy. He is writing because he wants to effect political change. He cares about the lives of people and there the details count. He is trying to refute the daily lies spewed out by the establishment media. He could have devoted his time to writing philosophical treatises that would have endured like Kant or Russell. But he invested in the tiny details which make a difference to win a political battle.?

?I try to encourage people to think for themselves, to question standard assumptions,? Chomsky said when asked about his goals. ?Don?t take assumptions for granted. Begin by taking a skeptical attitude toward anything that is conventional wisdom. Make it justify itself. It usually can?t. Be willing to ask questions about what is taken for granted. Try to think things through for yourself. There is plenty of information. You have got to learn how to judge, evaluate and compare it with other things. You have to take some things on trust or you can?t survive. But if there is something significant and important don?t take it on trust. As soon as you read anything that is anonymous you should immediately distrust it. If you read in the newspapers that Iran is defying the international community, ask who is the international community? India is opposed to sanctions. China is opposed to sanctions. Brazil is opposed to sanctions. The Non-Aligned Movement is vigorously opposed to sanctions and has been for years. Who is the international community? It is Washington and anyone who happens to agree with it. You can figure that out, but you have to do work. It is the same on issue after issue.?

Chomsky?s courage to speak on behalf of those, such as the Palestinians, whose suffering is often minimized or ignored in mass culture, holds up the possibility of the moral life. And, perhaps even more than his scholarship, his example of intellectual and moral independence sustains all who defy the cant of the crowd to speak the truth.

?I cannot tell you how many people, myself included, and this is not hyperbole, whose lives were changed by him,? said Finkelstein, who has been driven out of several university posts for his intellectual courage and independence. ?Were it not for Chomsky I would have long ago succumbed. I was beaten and battered in my professional life. It was only the knowledge that one of the greatest minds in human history has faith in me that compensates for this constant, relentless and vicious battering. There are many people who are considered nonentities, the so-called little people of this world, who suddenly get an e-mail from Noam Chomsky. It breathes new life into you. Chomsky has stirred many, many people to realize a level of their potential that would forever be lost.?



http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/noam-chomsky-has-never-seen-anything-like-this/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 18, 2016, 06:26:39 am
Fact Checker at Republican Debate Hospitalized for Exhaustion
By Andy Borowitz

The fact checker started having heart palpitations and shortness of breath every time Ted Cruz spoke.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Ron Sower on January 18, 2016, 11:07:46 am
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 18, 2016, 07:43:30 pm
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12439140_1184509274895906_8152418087990890727_n.jpg?oh=95f5c47dcd684038b71022475b6d4a26&oe=57387842)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on January 18, 2016, 07:51:20 pm
2 Corinthians our friend the Trumpster...
http://mashable.com/2016/01/18/donald-trump-2-corinthians/#M8PTutdz7gqD
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 20, 2016, 09:18:32 pm
Since it hasn't been in national news much, here is from other sources.
Pretty much everyone wants them to go away. Many people want them arrested and think they should at least pay damages.

Rancher puts fence back up that the armed idiots took down between bird sanctuary and his ranch:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/rancher_i_didnt_know_anything.html#incart_maj-story-1 (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/rancher_i_didnt_know_anything.html#incart_maj-story-1)

Sheriff says outsiders are trying to intimidate people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/sheriff_managing_oregon_stando.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/sheriff_managing_oregon_stando.html)

The Paiute Indians want them to leave:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0117/The-hostages-of-Oregon-standoff-4-000-Paiute-artifacts-video (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0117/The-hostages-of-Oregon-standoff-4-000-Paiute-artifacts-video)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 20, 2016, 09:23:02 pm
Last year was once again the hottest year on record.
Many different groups came up with the same results:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2015-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-again/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2015-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-again/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2016, 04:37:55 pm
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on January 23, 2016, 04:48:42 pm
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.

What an idiot. It would almost be a guarantee that if he did that on Fifth Ave. someone would ice him him right away. ::)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2016, 05:00:56 pm
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.

What an idiot. It would almost be a guarantee that if he did that on Fifth Ave. someone would ice him him right away. ::)

Yup.....what an ego.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 23, 2016, 05:14:58 pm
There is no limit to Trump's craziness,nuttier then squirrel shit.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on January 23, 2016, 07:20:07 pm
http://hardnoxandfriends.com/2016/01/04/al-gore-predicted-the-world-will-end-on-january-27th-2016/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2016, 07:27:09 pm
http://hardnoxandfriends.com/2016/01/04/al-gore-predicted-the-world-will-end-on-january-27th-2016/

The upcoming elections too boring for you?     ;D......back to more global warming arguments?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 23, 2016, 07:56:24 pm
Bad predictions? I'll see that and raise it by a factor of 8 (2 of the 12 in this list are democrats; 10 - 2 = 8):

Almost every prediction republicans have made about the economy has been wrong because they are based in ideology rather than real economics. They especially like predictions about inflation. Its their favorite excuse to not spend money on anything they don't like.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/economic-predictions-that-were-wrong_n_1798301.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/economic-predictions-that-were-wrong_n_1798301.html)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 24, 2016, 07:43:18 am
SNL...Tina Fey doing Palin's endorsement.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 26, 2016, 10:21:06 pm

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 27, 2016, 05:07:36 am

Dennis


...what's this guy smoking?.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 27, 2016, 05:14:42 am
...what's this guy smoking?.....

Not sure.....  heard them making many of the same points on the local PBS radio station the other day.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 27, 2016, 05:45:01 am
...what's this guy smoking?.....

Not sure.....  heard them making many of the same points on the local PBS radio station the other day.

Dennis

All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on January 28, 2016, 08:35:00 am
Before Hillary, there was Shirley .....

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35057641?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=inxmail_newsletter&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine_news__&ns_linkname=na&ns_fee=0 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35057641?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=inxmail_newsletter&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine_news__&ns_linkname=na&ns_fee=0)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on January 28, 2016, 08:53:48 am
The GOP must have loved her.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 28, 2016, 10:12:49 am
This week in the latest twist on what has already been an extremely odd GOP primary, we learned that front-runner Donald Trump will not participate in Thursday night?s debate on Fox News. In what might be the final straw in his peculiar political tactics, Trump claimed he wouldn?t join the debate if Fox News commentator Megyn Kelly were a moderator. He even taped a video saying that he was justified since everyone knew that Kelly was biased against him.

But then it got weirder. Fox News backed Kelly and issued a statement ?Capitulating to politicians? ultimatums about a debate moderator violates all journalistic standards.? This from the network that has the reputation of the most biased, factually inaccurate reporting available on television today.

In addition to Fox News posing as a real news outlet, with serious interest in reporting, they also went after Trump with mockery and snark: ?the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. ? A nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings.?

It?s important to pause and digest the absolutely odd conjunction of Fox News blustering about its journalistic integrity and going after Trump with the sort of satirical sarcasm we get on late night comedy treatments of Trump. If you read that statement about Putin and Twitter followers without attribution, you might think that Stephen Colbert had penned it.

This was all the perfect setup for Michael Moore, who entered the circus performance for an interview with Megyn Kelly to promote his new film ?Where to Invade Next.?

Moore had made his mark on Fox News when he sparred with Bill O?Reilly in a famous interview back in July of 2004 after the two crossed paths at the Democratic National Convention and O?Reilly decided to have him on his show. The idea was to debate the claims offered in Moore?s controversial film ?Fahrenheit 9/11,? which made the case that George Bush lied to the U.S. public when he launched the Iraq War.

While that interview was legendary, it was nothing like the Kelly interview with Moore. Moore is an artful interviewee, using his considerable talents as a comedian to move the interviewer off of his or her talking points. In the O?Reilly interview he kept going back to the key question: Would you send your child to fight in Iraq?

?I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and ? you would?? ?I would sacrifice myself,? O?Reilly said. ?Where can we sign him up?? Moore replied, to which O?Reilly responded, ?You?d love to get rid of me.?

That exchange allowed Moore to reveal the deep contradictions in O?Reilly?s war-mongering rhetoric. Eventually O?Reilly is revealed as all bluster, no credibility?which is pretty much the Fox News profile.

But if Bill O?Reilly has been the ?papa bear? of Fox News, it is Kelly whom the network sees as its future. With an aging audience, Kelly is the network?s one hope of drawing in younger viewers. Kelly?s style, though, is a hybrid. Her reporting a sort of Frankenstein. At times, she hits hard ?with her probing question on Trump?s misogyny at the first GOP debate as a prime example. At other times, she echoes the Fox News idiocy like the time she insisted that Santa Claus and Jesus were white.

Moore?s interview really took her down the rabbit hole, though.

In a tweet setting up his visit Moore referred to Fox News as Beelzebub?s Den and Lucifer?s Lair. His plan, though, was to enter as an invader, a merciful one, but still an invader.

This, of course, was a reference to his new film, ?Where to Invade Next,? which is already being heralded by conservatives as an attack on the nation, more of the anti-American drivel they expect from libtards.

Except, as the interview reveals, those ideas are fictionalizations of Moore, who is about as patriotic as anyone could be. The only difference is that his idea of what would make America great is not the same as that of his so-called patriotic, Tea Party detractors.

His film is as much a love letter to America as any he has ever done. He visits other nations to ?invade? them for good social policies ? social policies that in most cases were originally modeled after U.S. ideas. Mocking the militaristic bent of much U.S. politics today, he reverses the trend and turns an ?invasion? into a learning expedition.

As he explained during the interview, and as Kelly herself would tweet later, ?If you watch my films you will know three things about me: I love this country, I have a heart, and you will laugh.?

The interview, though, did not focus much on the film. Instead it focused on Moore congratulating Kelly for scaring Trump so much that he ran away from the debate. He started by saying, ?I feel bad for you. What?s he afraid of? I?m sitting here, I don?t feel any fear.? Kelly replied that she was a ?pussycat.?

Then Moore played on the idea that Trump was bullying her, but that she had achieved what none of the other candidates could do: She exposed him for the megalomaniacal, controlling fraud he is. No serious presidential candidate can survive if they refuse to do a moderated debate because they don?t like the journalist on the dais.

But it was what came next that really exposed the hybrid, odd place that Kelly is in as a Fox News reporter. Kelly wanted to call out Moore for both supporting Hillary Clinton and calling her ?disgusting.? It was the sort of ?gotcha? that is bread and butter dumb reporting on Fox News. Moore, though, was able to calmly and rationally explain how he could both support her, especially in light of the ways she is so often viciously attacked in the media, and also criticize her for campaign tactics against Barack Obama.

Channeling the sort of ?invading? he does in his film, where he is both optimistic and critical, Moore schooled Kelly in political nuance.

The display went on as Kelly called him out for statements critical of Obama. As Moore reasonably explained that he could support the president and also expect more of him, Kelly found herself in the odd role of needing to take a side. So if Moore criticized Obama, Kelly couldn?t just agree with him. She had to disagree by actually defending him. When Moore explained he had wanted him to close Guant?namo, Kelly replied, ?He tried. You?re tough.?

That?s the thing, though. Moore is anything but tough. The interview showed his genuine warmth and congeniality. But in the land of Fox News you are either all in or at war. Kelly?s interview tactics simply couldn?t handle the idea that you could have complex opinions about a candidate.

And it also meant that she varied from being tough on Moore and charmed by him. The back-and-forth she went through was delicious to watch because it showed how Kelly herself is caught between being a reasonable, smart journalist and being a Fox News pitbull.

Moore?s smartest move, though, was to also refuse to pretend that Fox News itself isn?t a major player in GOP politics. As the interview was winding down, he made sure to make an important intervention: ?To get elected president in this country, you have to come on this network, you have to play ball with this network. Donald Trump today said, ?I?m not playing ball with this network.? That?s historic, and it will be interesting to see where the real power is.?

?You?ve made this happen,? Moore told Kelly. ?You caused a crisis upstairs here.? It all made Kelly uncomfortable, leading her to say she had only asked a question. But Moore wouldn?t let her play it down: ?You asked a great question, by the way! The war on women!?

?Now you?re really ruining my rep, I?ve got to get out of here,? Kelly said with a laugh.

The thing is that Moore did a lot more in his interview with Kelly than ruin her rep. He revealed the odd place she has found herself in as both the mouthpiece for reductive, binary, reactionary, right-wing thinking and also the voice of reason on a channel dominated by angry, white men. And that?s why we should all be asking where Michael Moore plans to invade next.

Sophia A. McClennen is Professor of International Affairs and Comparative Literature at the Pennsylvania State University. She writes on the intersections between culture, politics, and society. Her latest book, co-authored with Remy M. Maisel, is, Is Satire Saving Our Nation? Mockery and American Politics.

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/28/theres_no_beating_megyn_kelly_what_donald_trump_should_have_learned_from_her_fox_news_interview_with_michael_moore/

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 28, 2016, 07:40:12 pm
All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?
 (http://All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?)

The FiveThirtyEight.com site (part of ESPN, also does sports odds) tracks all decent polls and weights them based on how good their methods are (lots of obscure statistics reasons) and by their past history of how accurately they predict particular elections.
Here is their summary of the IOWA primaries:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/)
Switch to see others by selecting with the drop down menu at the top.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 28, 2016, 07:47:20 pm
All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?
 (http://All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?)

The FiveThirtyEight.com site (part of ESPN, also does sports odds) tracks all decent polls and weights them based on how good their methods are (lots of obscure statistics reasons) and by their past history of how accurately they predict particular elections.
Here is their summary of the IOWA primaries:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/)


Switch to see others by selecting with the drop down menu at the top.

Interesting for sure..........thanks
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on January 29, 2016, 02:58:58 am
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 29, 2016, 05:47:10 am
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)

 ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on January 29, 2016, 05:50:52 am
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)

 ;D

It just made me hungry for donuts. Just not that one.  |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 29, 2016, 05:57:03 am
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)

 ;D

It just made me hungry for donuts. Just not that one.  |^|

LOLOLOL...+1  |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 29, 2016, 08:28:17 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11226168_1055775641182156_700630542854623427_n.jpg?oh=57f94191ba2b726d7aa9957a2a8f83ca&oe=572DAA32)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 30, 2016, 06:29:28 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12645188_1055786254514428_8869709130538590072_n.png?oh=f23adb4bd50c3fb00bf0ddbb895651b5&oe=57362A98)

Pres. Obama issued the ninth veto of his presidency last Tuesday, rejecting a Republican resolution that would have overturned federal regulations on clean water. This vote took place in the middle of the Flint water crisis. Unbelievable!

Read more here: http://on.msnbc.com/1Sm3V5P
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on January 30, 2016, 07:10:31 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6567.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 01, 2016, 02:12:00 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/946144_1611127578974939_4830057873184052125_n.jpg?oh=542a56d6862a54eba973304a7556efd7&oe=57331DD3)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 01, 2016, 02:23:42 pm
lol.  My favorite Trump related thing was when he spoke to Liberty University and quoted from 2 Corinthians.  Jerry Falwell still indorsed him ???
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 01, 2016, 06:27:52 pm
Jerry Falwell still indorsed him ???

He must be like Lazarus.....  Jerry passed away May 15, 2007.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 01, 2016, 06:43:39 pm
Jerry Falwell still indorsed him ???

He must be like Lazarus.....  Jerry passed away May 15, 2007.

Dennis

LOL......
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 01, 2016, 07:01:50 pm
Forgive my mistake. It was Jerry Falwell JR.  Trump spoke at a conservative Christian college and said, "Two Corinthians", and the prez of the university still endorsed him?  I can't wrap my mind around that.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/01/liberty-university-president-jerry-falwell-jr-insists-his-endorsement-of-donald-trump-is-a-personal-one/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on February 01, 2016, 10:21:17 pm
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12645188_1055786254514428_8869709130538590072_n.png?oh=f23adb4bd50c3fb00bf0ddbb895651b5&oe=57362A98)

Pres. Obama issued the ninth veto of his presidency last Tuesday, rejecting a Republican resolution that would have overturned federal regulations on clean water. This vote took place in the middle of the Flint water crisis. Unbelievable!

Read more here: http://on.msnbc.com/1Sm3V5P

MSNBC. Lest it be taken out of context why not post what the GOP is afraid this administration would do Jon?

I'll do it for you.

Quote
The GOP says the administration is seeking to assert federal control over puddles, ditches, areas that are occasionally wet and other large sections of private or state land in violation of the intent of the Clean Water Act.

They say the rule would be disastrous to farmers, developers, landowners and other businesses that would need a federal permit for routine tasks such as digging ditches.

?The federal government shouldn?t be regulating every drop of water,? said House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Bill Shuster (R-Pa.), whose panel has authority over water policy.

?Just about every wet area in the country is open to federal regulation under this rule,? he added. ?The rights of landowners and local governments will be trampled.?

Given that you can be arrested for collecting rain water in some states I would err on the side of caution. I can guarantee you Jon Republicans don't want dirty air, water etc. You just can't trust what Hussein and his ilk will do.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 12:19:25 am
I don't know anything about the clean water act,other then if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 04:25:03 am
....if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.

Unfortunately that seems to be the motto these days.  I can remember a day when I was proud to say I was a Republican, buts these haters that have taken over the party have ruined that sentiment.....

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 02, 2016, 06:23:17 am
Cruz Victory Gives Hope To Despised People Everywhere
By Andy Borowitz

Dozens of pariahs said that the Cruz triumph meant that ?the sky?s the limit? for widely hated people like them.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: GraphicGr8s on February 02, 2016, 10:10:44 am
....if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.

Unfortunately that seems to be the motto these days.  I can remember a day when I was proud to say I was a Republican, buts these haters that have taken over the party have ruined that sentiment.....

Dennis

Pretty much feel the same Dennis. I hate telling people I am a Republican. Usually I answer I am a Conservative. Look at all the damn RINOs. Like Ryan.  More like Boehner lite.

Time for term limits for congress. And a term in prison for Hillary.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 10:32:50 am
A term in prison for Hillary,whatever you do don't let facts get in the way,just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 02, 2016, 02:10:45 pm
(https://giant.gfycat.com/CornyDesertedAmmonite.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 07:07:54 pm
...just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.

So that means you are Okay with her taking money from foreign governments while she was Secretary of State for the USA?

It's not been that long ago that behavior like that would have been deemed treason, and she would be swinging at the federal prison in Leavenworth Kansas.

They are not going to do anything, she one of the 'in' crowd.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 02, 2016, 07:16:16 pm
...just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.

So that means you are Okay with her taking money from foreign governments while she was Secretary of State for the USA?

It's not been that long ago that behavior like that would have been deemed treason, and she would be swinging at the federal prison in Leavenworth Kansas.

They are not going to do anything, she one of the 'in' crowd.

Dennis

Still questionable tho...

"Origin:With respect to this piece's myriad assertions about the Clinton Foundation, we are in the process of researching those claims. We do know, however, that it was not authored by syndicated columnist and political commentator Charles Krauthammer, to whom it has since become widely attributed:

Incorrect Attribution (speculation)

In January 2016, the above excerpt escalated in e-mail popularity. The assertion, attributed to media personality Charles Krauthammer, was that the Clinton Foundation was an elaborate money laundering scheme aimed at collecting untraceable funds.

While the screed was circulated widely, it didn't appear to have been written by Charles Krauthammer. We were unable to locate any credible iterations of it bylined or credited to him; additionally, early iterations from October 2015 merely mentioned Krauthammer at the start of the missive (but not as an author of the piece):

On 23 December 2015, iterations began appearing with a novel attribution: Charles Krauthammer. However, the earliest versions dated back to May 2015, and none at that time gave any credit to Krauthammer.

At the same time, a near-identical version of the text appeared as a comment on a 12 May 2015 blog post, without attribution. A 25 May 2015 iteration (also in the comments of an unrelated blog post) credited a "Dave Hollenbeck" as a possible author, and a 24 May 2015 version similarly credited Hollenbeck. On that date, a version appeared on Facebook; Krauthammer's name was neither appended nor even mentioned:

It has been surmised, but never proven....but...who knows.... huh
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 07:34:51 pm
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her. 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 07:36:59 pm
It has been surmised, but never proven....but...who knows.... huh

I listened to a show on NPR months ago with one of Hillary's top aids stating the money was all legal and above board.  She said basically the same for Hillary's own personal 'mail server' that was much more secure than the one provided by the federal government.

The only thing the aid failed to mention Hillary's ocean front property.....


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 07:40:45 pm
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her.

At some point we have to start holding these people accountable for their actions.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 02, 2016, 07:52:21 pm
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her.

At some point we have to start holding these people accountable for their actions.

Dennis

The court of public skepticism shouldn't be the venue tho.....face it the Clinton's have plenty of money/credit.....Bill's books and speaking engagements alone will cover the property with that 'chump' change....... LOL

Put the witch hunt to rest......if it happens, it happens......it's just hype and the truth may never be separated from it..... huh
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 08:31:44 pm
So you are saying we just give them a pass?

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: JR on February 02, 2016, 08:37:20 pm
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on February 02, 2016, 11:09:07 pm
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking. (http://I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking.)

Kinda makes sense to me.

I think there were similar ideas about the Bush crew, but they are no longer active in politics, so no one really cares much about them now.

Going after retired politicians for past deeds just not something done very often in American politics. I think it goes along with a long time view that American politics should not be like the other civs that preceded us and killed their old leaders when a new one took over. Too vindictive.
The dominant view through American history has been to let old politicians go away and die. This was done a lot after the Civil War.

However, since Hillary is alive and politic'ing, she is drawing attention which does not seem unjustified since she is seeking a political office.
Legally, innocent till proven guilty. Politically, she has potential problems that may become bigger with time or may not. This is part of the choices Democrats face in choosing between her and Sanders. This is just something she will have to live with.

On the other hand, the Republicans currently seem to really like attacking Democrats in this way. Perhaps it because of their inability to get their ideas accepted sufficiently in elections. It seems to me, that this is just another case of them going way overboard in their complaints and reliance on questionable assumptions.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 03, 2016, 06:56:17 am
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking.
So you are saying we just give them a pass?

Dennis

  It was Dennis's words about a 'pass'....I never said that.....I merely stated that nothing has ever been proven....and actually the mud slinging on the Repub side is mostly the same way.....just mud throwing....and lots of it..oh, and it'll get worse here soon too..

  All this rhetoric thrown around is just to cast doubt about a candidates character....some of the mud will likely stick too...but I tired of not hearing anything about what some of these candidates will do if elected...attack politics leaves me cold....

  We've had some fun in this thread posting junk about candidates....but if you were going to the polls to vote, and had to read our banter...you'd think it was a TV sitcom comedy....All of the candidates have been thrown under the bus here....usually by one of those extreme mud slinging, implicating, political cartoons...or a satirist making us laugh....and we've fallen for it..to the point of getting personal about it.... isn't it a statement of the country's mood about politics that we've allowed ourselves to get sucked in....?

  I want to vote for the best possible person to lead our country..screw the parties..attack ads and all too....unfortunately this time around our choices are pretty slim....they each bring credibility doubts with them about having the tools to lead..... 

 
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 03, 2016, 08:22:12 am
..and now, Trump gets nominated for the Nobel Peace prize...


Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 03, 2016, 08:40:04 am
  I want to vote for the best possible person to lead our country..screw the parties..attack ads and all too....unfortunately this time around our choices are pretty slim....they each bring credibility doubts with them about having the tools to lead..... 

Amen to that.   |^|

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on February 03, 2016, 11:45:42 am
PSA, you won't find this info elsewhere:

Here is a link to a pretty good little article on the positions of the various candidates (including now former candidates) on a variety of scientific issues: funding, NASA, Climate change, vaccines, and GMO crops.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/science-campaign-trail-where-presidential-candidates-stand?utm_campaign=email-news-latest&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=251897 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/science-campaign-trail-where-presidential-candidates-stand?utm_campaign=email-news-latest&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=251897)

Interestingly, there is a fair amount of diversity in the Republican statements on climate change.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 03, 2016, 07:04:04 pm
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1517459_999441546733490_4102851214284863069_n.jpg?oh=afc559501a9ecdc2cfe3a345b76de0a7&oe=57707C05)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 04, 2016, 03:56:31 am
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/10600576_1032903433469377_7981310523501759932_n.jpg?oh=1acaa41598e18f56fde897b9fd781cf8&oe=57405DF8)

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 04, 2016, 11:21:35 am
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 04, 2016, 11:27:22 am
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12642688_786259988147453_5494893670683134970_n.jpg?oh=4c0bd0d2a05e0ba40fd242a6722697b1&oe=572FA35D)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 04, 2016, 01:50:24 pm
The two parties are so different from each other these days that it is as if they are from separate universes, or are addressing different species of creature. The fundamental issue to be decided this election is whether the American people intend to continue as people of reasoning, or whether to abandon it altogether and follow Trump or Cruz down the rabbit hole.

Hillary?s humility moment: A rabbi walks into a Town Hall and asks a question you?d never hear in the GOP debates

Watching the Democrats' town hall on CNN felt like entering an alternate election universe, where calm prevails

The only downside to being a Democrat in this election cycle?besides the looming, horrible fear that we could lose the White House, the only major segment of the American government that is currently controlled this party?is that while the primary process for the Republicans is a continued race to the bottom, the primary process for this party is a careful, shades-of-gray conversation about different versions of progressivism. It?s not a conversation with a lot of fireworks, although certainly both candidates? supporters have their own exciting hashtags. Instead, after tonight?s Democratic presidential candidates town hall on CNN, hosted by Anderson Cooper, one is left feeling a little listless and introspective, pondering the difference between campaigning and policymaking, integrity and the appearance of it, ?I am but dust and ashes? and ?the world was created for me.?

That last dichotomy was presented by a rabbi in the audience?Rabbi Jonathan Spira-Savett, of Temple Beth Abraham in Nashua, to be exact. Per CNN?s transcript:

    Rabbi Simcha Bunim taught that every person has to have two pockets, and in each pocket they have to carry a different note. And the note in one pocket says the universe was created for me. And in the other pocket the note says I am just dust and ashes.

    I want you to take a moment and think about what you would tell us about your two pockets. How do you cultivate the ego, the ego that we all know you must have?a person must have to be the leader of the free world?and also the humility to recognize that we know that you can?t be expected to be wise about all the things that the president has to be responsible for?



Spira-Savett?s question is one of balance, which is discussed more here, and it was directed specifically at Former Secretary Hillary Clinton?meaning that each candidate?s half of the town hall each contained a sprinkle of Jewish spirituality. It is a totally bizarre question to ask a presidential candidate. It?s difficult to imagine a question about the fundamental struggles of being a person directed at either Donald Trump or Senator Marco Rubio, while Megyn Kelly and Dr. Ben Carson looked on. But it was kind of a glorious one, too, and one that gets to the heart of why Democrats are Democrats. Being president is not just about winning, as Trump has repeatedly insisted it is. It?s about maintaining both your own humanity and the humanity of those you?re serving, and that is a wrenching tension that has grayed the hair of every president since Reagan.

The rabbi asked about finding a way between two apparent polar opposites, and that is a question that came up again and again last night. Moderate and progressive; big money and small donations. Likeability and electability and viability and longevity. Appearance and reality. [Senator Bernie Sanders chuckled when Cooper asked him about his Larry David impersonation. ?Are you doing your Larry David right now?? the moderator asked. ?I am Larry David,? Sanders retorted.] Sanders has a tendency to appear hectoring, while Clinton appears defensive; both were at their relative best, which included falling back on their own well-worn talking points from time to time. Clinton experienced some hiccups, because she?s under the delusion that she deserves the presidency. Sanders avoided questions about process, because his campaign rests on the enthusiasm for revolution, not the aftermath. Neither has the sheer charisma of Bill Clinton or the youthful enthusiasm of Barack Obama; both raise serious questions they haven?t quite yet answered.

But both are tolerable candidates. The town hall was transport to an alternate universe where these aren?t just our primary candidates, they?re our candidates, period; where we have the luxury of choosing between two sane and well-intentioned humans to be our next president. The Republican candidates barely came up at all, in either the questions or the responses. Instead Clinton and Sanders discussed their policies, each other, and when absolutely necessary, themselves?with more calm and honesty than either have delivered since this primary began. The town hall was about bringing together opposites and having a reasonable discussion about them, but outside, the storm that is going to be the general election is beginning to whip up to fever pitch, just like that blizzard that is apparently opening up over New Hampshire on Election Day.

Last night?s show was a little oasis of taking the measure of shades of gray, in an election where my choice, at least, is made mostly by other people. The dream of the town hall is a nice one, too, a bubble separate from the dust and ashes that make up most of American politics.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/04/hillarys_humility_moment_a_rabbi_walks_into_a_town_hall_and_asks_a_question_youd_never_hear_in_the_gop_debates/
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 05, 2016, 07:00:36 am
Monica Lewinsky released the following statement on Hilary Clinton's run for President:
--
"I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. The last Clinton presidency left a bad taste in my mouth.
As we get closer to the 2016 election year, citizens must remember that they cannot even trust Hillary Clinton to create American jobs.
The last time she had a meaningful job, she outsourced it to me and I simply blew it."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: JR on February 05, 2016, 07:03:32 am
You would think that bad taste would be gone by now.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 05, 2016, 07:14:29 am
You would think that bad taste would be gone by now.

LOL....I always wondered if she 'Tripp'd' when leaving the White House?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 05, 2016, 08:48:03 am
Monica Lewinsky released the following statement on Hilary Clinton's run for President:
--
"I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. The last Clinton presidency left a bad taste in my mouth.
As we get closer to the 2016 election year, citizens must remember that they cannot even trust Hillary Clinton to create American jobs.
The last time she had a meaningful job, she outsourced it to me and I simply blew it."

Well we've come full-circle.....  another lap anyone?

(http://www.globereport.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/monica.jpg)

Dennis

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 06, 2016, 12:44:03 pm
Bernie Sanders Doesn?t Know Diddly-Squat About Wall Street

But if he did, he might like it.
by

    William D. Cohan

?I do not know any progressive who has a super-PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street," the avuncular socialist and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders told Anderson Cooper at Wednesday evening?s Democratic town-hall event. ?That?s just not progressive.?

Indeed, Senator Sanders has gotten a lot of mileage by bashing Wall Street ?billionaires.? His call for a ?political revolution? usually includes a reference or two to how Wall Street is full of greedy bankers who ?drove this economy to its knees? in 2008 and should return the favor of being bailed out by transferring some of their wealth to the struggling American middle class.

These are great applause lines, and it?s easy to see why. Since the full extent of the financial crisis began unfolding eight years ago, the general public has come to view bankers as a group of reprobates who, for large fees, packaged up shoddy home mortgages as securities and sold them off around the world as good investments?even when, in many cases, they knew full well that they were not. The fact that the Department of Justice let the wrongdoers off scot-free has only exacerbated this ire.

Sanders is right that Wall Street still needs reform. The Dodd-Frank regulations fail to measure up; Wall Street lobbyists and $1000-an-hour attorneys work away each day to gut the meager reforms signed into law by President Barack Obama in July 2010. It is also unconscionable that Wall Street?s compensation system continues to reward bankers, traders, and executives to take big risks with other people?s money in hopes of getting big year-end bonuses. Thanks to this system, which has been prevalent since the 1970s, when Wall Street transformed itself from a bunch of undercapitalized private partnerships (where those partners had serious capital at risk every day) to a group of behemoth public companies (where the risk is borne by creditors and shareholders while the rewards go to the employees), Wall Street has become ground zero for one financial crisis after another.

But Sanders never talks about the compensation system on Wall Street. In fact, he rarely mentions anything concrete at all. Instead, he dwells on bizarre and nebulous notions such as imposing ?a tax on Wall Street speculation,? as he did during his speech on Monday night. This tax, Sanders noted, will generate ?hundreds of billions? of dollars in annual revenue and help pay for his proposed program to make tuition free at public colleges and universities.

ut what exactly is Sanders proposing and does it make any sense? The answer to the first question is: it is difficult to tell. The candidate?s website does not really flesh out the idea, other than to say that the tax ?will reduce risky and unproductive high-speed trading and other forms of Wall Street speculation.? If one goes back to a bill that Sanders introduced in the Senate last May, there is slightly more meat on these bones; still, the proposed legislation seems to have very little to do with actually taxing ?Wall Street speculation? and more to do with taxing every trading transaction?the buying and selling of stocks and bonds and derivatives?that Wall Street and hedge funds engage in. This, of course, makes no sense whatsoever?why tax the very behavior the system depends upon??and it is probably why Sanders?s legislation went nowhere and why he doesn?t talk about it anymore.

Even if Sanders eventually elaborates on his plan more fully, does taxing Wall Street speculation even make any sense? That one is simple: nope, and it actually reveals the candidate?s ignorance about our banking system. Simply put, Wall Street?s purpose is to re-allocate capital from people who have it (savers) to those who want it (borrowers) and then use it to grow businesses that employ billions of people around the globe and help give them a modicum of wealth that they did not have before. One man?s speculation, in other words, is another man?s risk-taking. Without people willing to take those risks, and having the chance to reap their reward, there wouldn?t be an Apple, a Google, a Facebook, or countless other large corporations. The billions of people around the world who are employed by thriving companies would lose their jobs.

On a more prosaic level, few of the local businesses associated with Sanders?s home turf, Vermont, would ever exist without Wall street, either. After all, who might prop up the capital for those inns or ski shops or cheese stores or small manufacturers or maple-syrup producers? Indeed, some 80 percent of American industry is comprised of small businesses, nearly all of which are financed by debt.

Other tenets of Sanders?s poorly articulated economic agenda include breaking up the ?Too Big to Fail? banks and reinstituting some form of the Glass-Steagall Act, which in the 1930s forced investment banking to be separated from commercial banking and was repealed in 1999. These ideas are both nonsensical and archaic and show, again, that Sanders and his advisers have little if any understanding of how Wall Street works and?like it or not?how important its proper functioning is to our way of life.

If Sanders was serious about reform, a good place to start would be through overhauling the compensation system so that risk-taking remains encouraged but the traders, bankers, and executives who take those risks are also held accountable for them, financially and legally, when they go wrong. If you really want to change people?s behavior, you have to change what you reward them to do. And if we could do that, I bet even Bernie Sanders would learn to appreciate Wall Street, too.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/02/bernie-sanders-doesnt-understand-wall-street

..thanks to the OP....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 06, 2016, 07:01:55 pm
George Carlin said, ?The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.?)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 06, 2016, 07:38:54 pm
He also said that we are so obsessed with germs, that they swab a convicts arm with alcohol before administering a lethal injection.

A true philosopher, I never tire of listening to him on YouTube.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 08, 2016, 07:14:48 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/danzcolorplus6573.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 09, 2016, 08:36:26 am
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/danzcolorplus6570.jpg)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 09, 2016, 08:40:12 am
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Chris-Christie-Quits-728x375-1454958674.jpg)

NEW HAMPSHIRE (Satire from The Borowitz Report)?In a stunning announcement on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said that he was dropping out of the Presidential race to focus his energies on tormenting Florida Senator Marco Rubio full-time.

?At the end of the day, running for President was interfering with what I really love, which is making Marco Rubio?s life a living hell,? he said. ?Now I can get up every morning and spend all day just doing that.?

Christie said that he had tired of fielding questions about ISIS, immigration, and the economy and having to find some contrived way of answering them with a scathing attack on Rubio. ?Don?t get me wrong, I was great at it,? he said. ?But it?ll be so much easier to just get out there and start tearing him apart with no pretext whatsoever.?

The New Jersey governor, who plans to bring his message of character assassination to all fifty states, did not indicate how he would finance this mission. ?I?ll pay for it myself if I have to,? he said. ?If, looking back on my life, I can say that I ground Marco Rubio into the dirt, I will die a happy man.?

Asked what his first stop would be after leaving the campaign trail, Christie said, ?I want to reconnect with my family, hug my kids, and tell them what a douche Marco is.?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 11, 2016, 06:16:07 am
Big business Hillary will say anything to get into the White House.....


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 11, 2016, 07:50:20 am
Wow...they went back 13yrs to take sound bites about topics that everyone wobbled on..including our Presidents and Congressmen?....not to mention the public in general?.....boy, it's a good thing to think and change one's mind and views........unless you're a candidate....LOL

Oh....Bernie doesn't have a 'Super PAC'.....but.....it top five contributors are tech company's....oh my

before you run off to check Hillary's....it was George Spiros.....7 million big ones...but.....she doesn't say she doesn't have the 'Super PAC's'....interesting, Bernie gets the big money too.....but likes the illusion that he can't be bought.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL......gotta love politics....all this will only get worse too....enjoy.... ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 11, 2016, 11:20:54 am
(http://i.imgbox.com/tuddUxcT.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on February 11, 2016, 01:51:46 pm
I can't stomach politicians. :(
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 11, 2016, 01:53:30 pm
I can't stomach politicians. :(

 |^|..especially during election years too....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 12, 2016, 05:42:10 am
I can't stomach politicians. :(

Come one Willie, we ALL love Hillary  LOL


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 05:54:24 am
LOL...Dennis. are you trolling?  ;D
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 12, 2016, 06:02:17 am
LOL...Dennis. are you trolling?  ;D

Just entertaining myself.  LOL

I had no idea of the amount of video based on Hillies antics to be found on YouTube.  It's breathtaking.  LOL  I may just be getting started!   |^|

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 06:09:46 am
...LOL....have at it... |^|

....Can you imagine this type of campaigning back in 'Ike's' day?....Kay Summersby and all....JFK and his harem...'tail gunner Joe'..'Pumpkin papers'...yada yada.....there would have been some ugly vids floating around, just like what we have gotten for the last 20+ years....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: ghonk on February 12, 2016, 08:15:16 am
I can't wait for it to be over with.
Then they can start bitching about how Clinton is destroying this once great nation, for the next 8 years.
I wonder if she's going to be a undercover Muslim too,or maybe a in the closet lesbian.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 09:08:08 am
(http://img.humorsharing.com/media/images/1602/i_at_last_its_friday_gifs_007_56bda25a8ba17.gif)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 12, 2016, 04:40:11 pm
(http://img.humorsharing.com/media/images/1602/i_at_last_its_friday_gifs_007_56bda25a8ba17.gif)

I love Bernie.  He's a young old guy.  This is the worst possible time for him to become president.  Our country is not ready for him :(  My heart is still on his side.  My head tells different.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 07:09:15 pm
Trump's Book Store

So, I was walking through Chicago and I saw that there was a "Muslim Book Store.?

I was wondering what exactly was a Muslim bookstore, so I went in.

As I was wandering around taking a look, the clerk stopped me and asked if he could help me.

I imagine I didn't look like his normal clientele, so I asked, "Do you have a copy of Donald Trump's new book on his U.S. Immigration Policy regarding Muslims and Illegal Mexicans??

The clerk said, "F**k off, get out and stay out!?

I said, "Yes, that's the one. Do you have it in paperback?"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 12, 2016, 07:30:31 pm
Trump's Book Store

So, I was walking through Chicago and I saw that there was a "Muslim Book Store.?

I was wondering what exactly was a Muslim bookstore, so I went in.

As I was wandering around taking a look, the clerk stopped me and asked if he could help me.

I imagine I didn't look like his normal clientele, so I asked, "Do you have a copy of Donald Trump's new book on his U.S. Immigration Policy regarding Muslims and Illegal Mexicans??

 |^| |^|  He is such an easy target.  Why people like him so much is over my head.

The clerk said, "F**k off, get out and stay out!?

I said, "Yes, that's the one. Do you have it in paperback?"
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 13, 2016, 06:28:40 pm
Justice Antonin Scalia dead at 79.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 14, 2016, 12:25:51 pm
I've been learning more about him.  All I knew before that he was a big deal conservative justice who's beautifully written descents were often quoted on NPR.  Turns out that he was a guy who I would disagree with but respect.

The Republicans have all but vowed to refuse to accept anyone who Obama nominates, regardless of who it is ::)  I am sick to death our country being so polarized.  I have but one friend who I can get into a shouting spitting argument about politics with and not make an enemy of.  What our country needs is more respect for the integrity of a man who can disagree and still be respected.  We have a senator, Thad Cochran, down here.  I disagree with him but I still respect him.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 05:59:41 am
Rubio Abruptly Departs G.O.P. Debate After Low-Battery Warning
By Andy Borowitz

(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Marco-Low-Battery-690x460-1455378823.jpg)

GREENVILLE, South Carolina (The Borowitz Report)?Senator Marco Rubio of Florida was forced to leave Saturday night?s crucial Republican Presidential debate after suffering what aides called a ?low-battery warning.?

Rubio?s abrupt departure occurred immediately following his opening statement, which started in a spirited manner but concluded with the senator uttering the word ?Obama? no fewer than a dozen times in succession.

With the other candidates and debate moderators looking on, Rubio?s eyes appeared to roll back in his head, which fell forward and came to rest on his podium.

As the unconscious Rubio stood motionless onstage, moderators momentarily panicked.

?We didn?t know what was going on,? the moderator, John Dickerson, said. ?This is the sort of thing we?ve come to expect from Ben Carson, but not Rubio.?

Aides immediately rushed onstage and removed Rubio, who is expected to return to the campaign trail on Sunday.

?This is on us,? a Rubio aide said. ?Fully charged, Marco is capable of going for up to ten hours.?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 06:18:55 am
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12744633_1068060973286956_4286538927128628399_n.jpg?oh=a9d52fe45a9cc6bde1b41a081f6918f3&oe=5766DF9B)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 15, 2016, 10:05:38 am
Let's put it off and let Hillary pick one!  I'm sure she's got a long list of folks who know the laws and how to work around them.....  LOL


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 10:28:39 am
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 15, 2016, 11:01:29 am
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf

She is probably hoping she gets to pick.....  she is liable to need a good judge before it's all over!    :D :D :D

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 11:14:18 am
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf

She is probably hoping she gets to pick.....  she is liable to need a good judge before it's all over!    :D :D :D

Dennis

Naw...if they had anything real on her...they'd have already used the opportunity......these are sleazy 'Repub's' remember... ;D..oh goodness, where's Lindsey?....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: JR on February 15, 2016, 06:24:44 pm
If I remember right in 07 Schumer said about the same thing McConnell just said. Bush had about 8 months left in his term. The Republicans cried as much as the Democrats are now.

Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 07:23:41 pm
If I remember right in 07 Schumer said about the same thing McConnell just said. Bush had about 8 months left in his term. The Republicans cried as much as the Democrats are now.

Yup...sometime around 2000 too, when Ike was in his last year...
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 16, 2016, 06:04:10 am

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 06:15:00 am
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 16, 2016, 06:22:12 am
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

I always assumed we would afford it the same way the rest of the FREE world affords theirs.  Our health care sucks in every way compared to other countries.....

I think the real question should be, How can we NOT afford it?

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 06:30:50 am
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

I always assumed we would afford it the same way the rest of the FREE world affords theirs.  Our health care sucks in every way compared to other countries.....

I think the real question should be, How can we NOT afford it?

Dennis

...and to think that if Congress had only worked with the President, we might be closer to that......too many outside $$$'s muddling the water
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 02:14:44 pm
ClubOrlov
published on tuesdays



So far I have mostly tried to ignore the US presidential race. It's a distraction from doing things that are either pleasant or useful?of which it is neither. I haven't always tried to completely ignore these torrents of nonsense that erupt every four years like a gushing sewer, but, in general, I was never interested in the outcome, because in all but one case I genuinely disliked all of the candidates. Jimmy Carter is the only one whose hand I would shake. I wouldn't want to breathe the same air with any of the others?all lizard-brained miscreants who have left a slimy trail through the White House.

As I understand it, the way this system is supposed to work is as follows. There is just one good, solid reason to vote for the Democratic candidate: to keep out the Republicans, who are so much worse than the Democrats. And there is just one good, solid reason to vote for the Republican candidate: to keep out the Democrats, who are so much worse than the Republicans. Now, you may ask yourself, How is it possible for both sides to be worse at the same time? Well, you are right, that's not possible. Obviously, they have to take turns at becoming the worst. Whoever happens to be in office adds another turn to the downward spiral.

This seems like a good, solid arrangement?if the goal is to produce the most bloated, corrupt, criminal, warmongering, terrorist-coddling, bankrupt government the Earth has ever known?it is, indeed, all of these things. But it has just one tiny flaw: getting people to vote for you by teaching them to hate the other side is effective, but it's purely negative. To introduce a positive, aspirational element, it is necessary to somehow make people feel that it is possible to bring about political change by voting for someone within the Democratic or the Republican party. Of course, this is sheer nonsense, because the only people pulling the strings are the ones who write the checks, and you don't get to vote for any of them. But people don't want to believe that they are completely powerless, and the same people who fell for it in thinking that they could bring about change by voting for Obama are now falling for it again, thinking that they can bring about change by voting for Bernie. No, you can't possibly ever change things by voting for the Democratic/Republican duopoly. Oh, and you can't possibly ever change things by voting against it either. Sorry, Jill Stein.

So that's how it goes, generally, getting worse and worse each time. But things can't just continue to going from bad to worse forever; eventually, something has to give. At some point there must come a phase transition, or an inflection point, or some sort of political collapse scenario. And this year seems somewhat atypical because the quality of the candidates is so poor.

On the Democratic side, we have Hillary the Giant Flying Lizard, but she seems rather impaired by just about everything she has ever done, some of which was so illegal that it will be hard to keep her from being indicted prior to the election. She seems only popular in the sense that, if she were stuffed and mounted and put on display, lots of folks would pay good money to take turns throwing things at her. And then we have Bernie, the pied piper for the ?I can't believe I can't change things by voting? crowd. He seems to be doing a good job of it?as if that mattered.

On the Republican side we have Donald and the Seven Dwarfs. I previously wrote that I consider Donald to be a mannequin worthy of being installed as a figurehead at the to-be-rebranded Trump White House and Casino (it is beneath my dignity to mention any of the Dwarfs by name) but Donald has a problem: he sometime tells the truth. In the most recent debate with the Dwarfs he said that Bush lied in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. Candidates must lie?lie like, you know, like they are running for office. And the problem with telling the truth is that it becomes hard to stop. What bit of truthiness is he going to deliver next? That 9/11 was an inside job? That Osama bin Laden worked for the CIA, and that his death was faked? That the Boston Marathon bombing was staged, and the two Chechen lads were patsies? That the US military is a complete waste of money and cannot win? That the financial and economic collapse of the US is now unavoidable? Even if he can stop himself from letting any more truthiness leak out, the trust has been broken: now that he's dropped the T-bomb, how can he be relied upon to lie like he's supposed to?

And so we may be treated to quite a spectacle: the Flying Lizard, slouching toward a federal penitentiary, squaring off against the Donald the T-bomber. That would be fun to watch. Or maybe the Lizard will implode on impact with the voting booth and then we'll have Bernie vs. the T-bomber. Being a batty old bugger, and not wanting to be outdone, he might drop some T-bombs of his own. That would be fun to watch too.

Not that any of this matters, of course, because the country's trajectory is all set. And no matter who gets elected?Bernie or Donald?on their first day at the White House they will be shown a short video which will explain to them what exactly they need to do to avoid being assassinated. But I won't be around to see any of that. I've seen enough. This summer I am sailing off: out Port Royal Sound, then across the Gulf Stream and over to the Abacos, then a series of pleasant day-sails down the Bahamas chain with breaks for fishing, snorkeling and partying with other sailors (I know, life is so hard!), then through the Windward Passage, a stop at Port Antonio in Jamaica, and then onward across the Caribbean to an undisclosed location. Please let me know if you want to crew. I guarantee that there will be absolutely no election coverage aboard the boat.


http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2016/02/what-are-we-smelling.html#more
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 02:24:35 pm
So why do people hate Hillary so much? Most people have never even met her. I remember the right wing hate machine went after her the moment Bill was elected. At first they made fun of her appearance "not feminine enough, and who does her hair?" Sexist comments, but she listened and got a makeover. Then she became a "Bitch", a term I've come to understand as meaning "any strong woman that terrifies the caveman conservatives that want women to stay subversive to men."

To be blunt, most attacks I've seen against Hillary are sexist in nature.

How many people know that Hillary started off as Republican? If political ambition was all she was about why in the world would she change her party affiliation to Democrat in ARKANSAS?

The truth is that Mrs. Clinton is still fairly conservative. She's also a "hawk" militarily, meaning she has not hesitated to advocate a military solution when further diplomacy might have been the best option. I suspect Hillary was an Eisenhower Republican, disillusioned by Nixon, as I suspect many Republicans were in her day. Furthermore, the Democratic Party is now far more conservative than it was in the days of Kennedy. So she sits politically, more in tune with Eisenhower than Reagan.


So just what are people afraid of? Many have heard stories about her temper--mostly as it has been directed (justly no doubt) at her errant husband. However, I've never heard of her throwing a temper tantrum in the Senate isles or anywhere else. It is also worth noting that all the many people who have worked for her over the years attest that she is a good boss. Demanding, yes, sometimes preoccupied (goes with the territory IMO), but fair and generous in her praise. She has expressed genuine concern about her colleagues and subordinates, and she has been unerringly polite and gracious in public.

Now contrast this with some of Hillary's past colleagues in the Senate and current competitors for the presidency. Front runners Cruz and Trump are positively famous for blowing their stacks, shaming and abusing their staff, and even occasionally ranting and raving. Cruz in particular is HATED by his colleagues in the Senate.

So what is the real fear?

Then are some that worry electing Mrs. Clinton to the Presidency will spread the disease of Clintonism. But what are the symptoms of this dread malady on the body politic? Low unemployment? High growth? Low inflation? Soaring productivity?

Too liberal? But too liberal compared with whom? Charles Schumer? Paul Wellstone? Brian Schatz? Chris Murphy? Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders?

So what are the Hillary-bashers so scared of?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 16, 2016, 02:48:33 pm
I agree with you.  Hillary's biggest problems are that the country had never been so divided, and that she doesn't have the charm that Obama and her husband have.  She is most certainly strong.  She has withstood the slings and arrows for a very long time now.

Bernie would be wonderful, but his agenda is way too liberal for our time.  He's my first best choice but if he were to be elected our country would become even more divided.  Is that not the last thing we need?
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on February 16, 2016, 03:30:28 pm
I agree with you.  Hillary's biggest problems are that the country had never been so divided, and that she doesn't have the charm that Obama and her husband have.  She is most certainly strong.  She has withstood the slings and arrows for a very long time now.

Bernie would be wonderful, but his agenda is way too liberal for our time.  He's my first best choice but if he were to be elected our country would become even more divided.  Is that not the last thing we need?

I agree with both of you.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 16, 2016, 04:28:41 pm
Is anyone else listening to the President's speech live?  I am.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 16, 2016, 06:14:39 pm

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 06:34:00 pm
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL......said as only the 'Great One' could say it.....good one Dennis  |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: wsantia1 on February 16, 2016, 06:51:03 pm
lol. That was too funny. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| mim mim mim mim mim
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: LizStreithorst on February 16, 2016, 06:52:15 pm
That was perfection, Dennis.  Thanks
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 12:46:40 pm
I know I like to pick on poor old Hillary, but NO ONE is safe.  LOL

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BillT on February 17, 2016, 02:22:53 pm
What states does Sanders have to win, to win nomination?

538 analysis:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/)
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 02:28:25 pm
What states does Sanders have to win, to win nomination?

538 analysis:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/)

I'm sure it'll get interesting, but most these polls rely on speculation.......we'll just have to wait and see, I guess..... huh

Don?t get too attached to these: The state-by-state estimates are pretty rough. But they?re calibrated in such a way2 so as to provide a reasonable benchmark of what a 50-50 race would look like. Maybe Michigan is less favorable to Sanders than this estimate holds, for example. That?s fine, but it means he?ll need to make up ground in another state.

The starting point for these estimates is state-by-state polling from Morning Consult, a non-partisan polling and media firm that has surveyed about 8,000 Democrats online since Jan. 1. That?s a lot of responses, although not enough to provide an adequate sample size for all 50 states; while there are about 800 respondents from California in the sample, for instance, there are only a dozen or so from Montana.
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:38:40 pm
Hillary will probably be indicted by then and it won't make any difference  LOL


Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 02:39:52 pm
(http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/blogs/trumptourism.jpg?itok=fMaoSPsM)

A Canadian island is urging Americans to make it their new home should Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump win the White House in November.

?Hi Americans!? a statement on a tourism website for Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, reads. "Donald Trump may become the next president of your country. If that happens, and you decide to get the hell out of there, might I suggest moving to Cape Breton Island?"

The statement adds: "Don?t wait until Election Day to find somewhere else to live!

?Start now ? that way, on Election Day, you just hop on a bus to start your new life in Cape Breton, where women can get abortions, Muslim people can roam freely and the only ?walls? are holding up the roofs of our extremely affordable houses.?

The website then explained its rationale for seeking potential American residents disgusted by the prospect of a Trump administration.

?We are an island about the same size as the Hawaiian Big Island on the east coast of Canada,? its statement reads. "We always rank high on travel magazine lists of beautiful islands, but we are experiencing a bit of a population problem at the moment.

?We need people [and] we need you! This is not a joke! See for yourself ? you belong here on Cape Breton Island, where healthcare is free, you know your neighbors and they look out for you and nobody has a hand gun.?

Cape Breton Island also details some of its unique features as a North Atlantic tourist destination.

?In Cape Breton, we value diversity,? its tourism site reads. "Here, you can hear a number of other languages, like French and Mi?kmaq, even Gaelic! But everybody speaks English, too, just like you.

?Yes, this is Canada, but Cape Breton isn?t frozen all year round! Our summers are delightful with highs in the 80-degree range. Winters here are very similar to the Northeast USA."
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:46:20 pm
I wonder what the IT market looks like there??  I always loved Canada as a child.....  great people and beautiful country.  It always amazed me how clean they kept things compared to our littering ways here in the USA.

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 02:50:05 pm
Hillary will probably be indicted by then and it won't make any difference  LOL


Dennis


...says Issa.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....worst scenario...a fine and slap on the wrist.....
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:53:18 pm
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers.  LOL

Dennis
Title: Re: How long before it's us?
Post by: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 03:03:11 pm
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers.  LOL

Dennis

Which were perfectly legal, until the 'Repub�