More fish room work

[LizStreithorst]

I went to the fish room this morning and saw a pair of RSG's in distress!  There sponge wasn't getting any air.  I freaked, but managed to fix it and do a tiny WC and get done in time to get to work on time.  They're fine.

I have a Jemhco LPH60 linear pump.  http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph60.html    I've added a couple more tanks and I'm now running 47 sponges and air stones, 7 of which are in my 250 gallon water storage containers which are deep!  I've noticed in the past few days that unless everything was perfect I'd loose air to one sponge.  This afternoon I tightened up a few valves with a wrench that I had depended on hand power to screw in when I first put them in.  It helped! 

When I set this up years ago, I drilled about half the holes with a drill that was imperceptibly too big  I bet that it was metric rather than standard or vice-versa.  And I didn't use a drill that cut threads.  I just used a drill bit.  I used lots if thread tape on the threads, but I bet that a wee bit of air is leaking from them.  Also, I didn't plumb the PVC to make a loop.  I just stuck a cap on the end because it was easier. 

I am reaching the capacity of my pump.  I must not allow a molecule of H2O to escape the system and I must make it easier on the pump by making a loop.  I've never used a drill bit cuts threads.  On 3/4" PVC.  I bet it would be best to drill a pilot hole so when I put on the bit that cuts threads it won't go off on me.  I don't have a drill press.

I suppose I should tackle this project this week end.  I have nothing else pressing...If anyone has any advice I want to hear it.  I want to do this right.  I always regret doing an imperfect job that I think should work well enough. 

[Mugwump]

I went to the fish room this morning and saw a pair of RSG's in distress!  There sponge wasn't getting any air.  I freaked, but managed to fix it and do a tiny WC and get done in time to get to work on time.  They're fine.

I have a Jemhco LPH60 linear pump.  http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph60.html    I've added a couple more tanks and I'm now running 47 sponges and air stones, 7 of which are in my 250 gallon water storage containers which are deep!  I've noticed in the past few days that unless everything was perfect I'd loose air to one sponge.  This afternoon I tightened up a few valves with a wrench that I had depended on hand power to screw in when I first put them in.  It helped! 

When I set this up years ago, I drilled about half the holes with a drill that was imperceptibly too big  I bet that it was metric rather than standard or vice-versa.  And I didn't use a drill that cut threads.  I just used a drill bit.  I used lots if thread tape on the threads, but I bet that a wee bit of air is leaking from them.  Also, I didn't plumb the PVC to make a loop.  I just stuck a cap on the end because it was easier. 

I am reaching the capacity of my pump.  I must not allow a molecule of H2O to escape the system and I must make it easier on the pump by making a loop.  I've never used a drill bit cuts threads.  On 3/4" PVC.  I bet it would be best to drill a pilot hole so when I put on the bit that cuts threads it won't go off on me.  I don't have a drill press.

I suppose I should tackle this project this week end.  I have nothing else pressing...If anyone has any advice I want to hear it.  I want to do this right.  I always regret doing an imperfect job that I think should work well enough.

How old is your air line that you have running now?...it can get brittle and lose a good connection when jiggled while do sponge maintenance etc.....got more air line than you need on some connections?...you can trim 'em back some....real fine sponges getting older can get so they don't clean up well....toss em in the washer and wash em a time or two.....

take a pipe cleaner and ream the valves out....wash your pump filter sponge well too..or replace it....Jehmco will do a rebuild for around $75 on most pumps, if need be too...I have one to send them a the moment too....

[LizStreithorst]

I went to the fish room this morning and saw a pair of RSG's in distress!  There sponge wasn't getting any air.  I freaked, but managed to fix it and do a tiny WC and get done in time to get to work on time.  They're fine.

I have a Jemhco LPH60 linear pump.  http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph60.html    I've added a couple more tanks and I'm now running 47 sponges and air stones, 7 of which are in my 250 gallon water storage containers which are deep!  I've noticed in the past few days that unless everything was perfect I'd loose air to one sponge.  This afternoon I tightened up a few valves with a wrench that I had depended on hand power to screw in when I first put them in.  It helped! 

When I set this up years ago, I drilled about half the holes with a drill that was imperceptibly too big  I bet that it was metric rather than standard or vice-versa.  And I didn't use a drill that cut threads.  I just used a drill bit.  I used lots if thread tape on the threads, but I bet that a wee bit of air is leaking from them.  Also, I didn't plumb the PVC to make a loop.  I just stuck a cap on the end because it was easier. 

I am reaching the capacity of my pump.  I must not allow a molecule of H2O to escape the system and I must make it easier on the pump by making a loop.  I've never used a drill bit cuts threads.  On 3/4" PVC.  I bet it would be best to drill a pilot hole so when I put on the bit that cuts threads it won't go off on me.  I don't have a drill press.

I suppose I should tackle this project this week end.  I have nothing else pressing...If anyone has any advice I want to hear it.  I want to do this right.  I always regret doing an imperfect job that I think should work well enough.

How old is your air line that you have running now?...it can get brittle and lose a good connection when jiggled while do sponge maintenance etc.....got more air line than you need on some connections?...you can trim 'em back some....real fine sponges getting older can get so they don't clean up well....toss em in the washer and wash em a time or two.....

take a pipe cleaner and ream the valves out....wash your pump filter sponge well too..or replace it....Jehmco will do a rebuild for around $75 on most pumps, if need be too...I have one to send them a the moment too....

I bought an extra filter when I bought the pump. 

A pipe cleaner is way to big to fit through my valves.  I've been using a needle with thread to clean them when they fail.  It works great.

I replaced all my old stiff air lines with new when I set back up after the stands were rebuilt.  I cut most to a good length but there are some I could trim a good bit.

I have noticed that my ancient small pore sponges have gotten harder and harder to squeeze.  I can't toss them in the washer because they are not hydro sponges.  They're square and glued to a 4"X4" piece of tile.  I need to bite the bullet and contact Swiss Tropical's for some good sponges  It won't hurt if I buy a few at a time.

Anything wrong with the rest of my plan?  Is the drill that cut's threads what I need?  Will making a compete loop back to the pump help? 

[Mugwump]

I went to the fish room this morning and saw a pair of RSG's in distress!  There sponge wasn't getting any air.  I freaked, but managed to fix it and do a tiny WC and get done in time to get to work on time.  They're fine.

I have a Jemhco LPH60 linear pump.  http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph60.html    I've added a couple more tanks and I'm now running 47 sponges and air stones, 7 of which are in my 250 gallon water storage containers which are deep!  I've noticed in the past few days that unless everything was perfect I'd loose air to one sponge.  This afternoon I tightened up a few valves with a wrench that I had depended on hand power to screw in when I first put them in.  It helped! 

When I set this up years ago, I drilled about half the holes with a drill that was imperceptibly too big  I bet that it was metric rather than standard or vice-versa.  And I didn't use a drill that cut threads.  I just used a drill bit.  I used lots if thread tape on the threads, but I bet that a wee bit of air is leaking from them.  Also, I didn't plumb the PVC to make a loop.  I just stuck a cap on the end because it was easier. 

I am reaching the capacity of my pump.  I must not allow a molecule of H2O to escape the system and I must make it easier on the pump by making a loop.  I've never used a drill bit cuts threads.  On 3/4" PVC.  I bet it would be best to drill a pilot hole so when I put on the bit that cuts threads it won't go off on me.  I don't have a drill press.

I suppose I should tackle this project this week end.  I have nothing else pressing...If anyone has any advice I want to hear it.  I want to do this right.  I always regret doing an imperfect job that I think should work well enough.

How old is your air line that you have running now?...it can get brittle and lose a good connection when jiggled while do sponge maintenance etc.....got more air line than you need on some connections?...you can trim 'em back some....real fine sponges getting older can get so they don't clean up well....toss em in the washer and wash em a time or two.....

take a pipe cleaner and ream the valves out....wash your pump filter sponge well too..or replace it....Jehmco will do a rebuild for around $75 on most pumps, if need be too...I have one to send them a the moment too....

I bought an extra filter when I bought the pump. 

A pipe cleaner is way to big to fit through my valves.  I've been using a needle with thread to clean them when they fail.  It works great.

I replaced all my old stiff air lines with new when I set back up after the stands were rebuilt.  I cut most to a good length but there are some I could trim a good bit.

I have noticed that my ancient small pore sponges have gotten harder and harder to squeeze.  I can't toss them in the washer because they are not hydro sponges.  They're square and glued to a 4"X4" piece of tile.  I need to bite the bullet and contact Swiss Tropical's for some good sponges  It won't hurt if I buy a few at a time.

Anything wrong with the rest of my plan?  Is the drill that cut's threads what I need?  Will making a compete loop back to the pump help?

I've heard of folks making a pilot hole then putting the tap in a variable speed drill to tap in the threads....is that what you're saying?...then yup, that'll work...

sounds like you have the rest covered....and yes, I think a loop may equalize the pressure better for ya too...

The Jehmco pumps work better, and last longer if loaded....not under loaded...hopefully it hasn't weakened a bit....

[wallace]

I don't know if a loop would help or not. Are you going to re-drill new PVC with threaded holes? If so you need a tap that matches the threads. This video might help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayduerGoCyw

[LizStreithorst]

Wow!  That helps greatly  What a great video from an unassuming guy from "Dull Knife Productions".  I like that man's style.

I will buy a tap.  I don't imagine I will be able to buy just the one I want by itself.  I'll need the tool to screw it in, too.  My good neighbor might have those to loan me, but I doubt it. 

Gonna go back and watch that video again.

I asked John at Jehmco when I bought the pump if I should bleed off air to make it easier on he pump.  He asked me what tanks I had and how many sponges.  He said that I was fine, that I was buying the right pump...

I may need to think on this project a little longer.  I need to figure out the least stressful way to do it.  Least stressful on the fish, I mean.  I need to redo the air supply to the entire fish room to get it perfect.  I can do it but I have to get it all planned in my head first.

Thanks very much for educating me.

I kind of think that a loop will help.  I can't put "why" into words.  I bet BillT or Dennis could put the "why it would help"  into words.  Or maybe a loop won't help   I'm a bit of a dull knife myself

[wallace]

Jehmco has self-tapping air valves for PVC. Part AV1E. If that will work all you need is a#14 drill bit.

http://jehmco.com/html/air_accessories.html

[Mugwump]

Jehmco has self-tapping air valves for PVC. Part AV1E. If that will work all you need is a#14 drill bit.

http://jehmco.com/html/air_accessories.html

[BillT]

A linear length of pipe, with several taps bleeding air off of it, will result in a pressure drop from a high point near the pump to a low point at the place furthest from the pump.
A loop will connect the far end of the linear pipe to the pump without any taps bleeding air off (in the simplest to explain of case).
This will make another pressure high point at the far end (from the pump) of the pipe. The pressure will then drop off from the high points at both ends of the pipe to a low pressure point somewhere near the middle. This should result in increasing the pressures at the far end of the pipe. Dividing the air flow from the pump in this way will probably reduce the high pressures near the pump a bit. More even distribution.

If you have large diameter pipes and small outlets, the pressure drops will be less.
Larger pipe has less resistance to air flow. Besides bleeding off air from valves, resistance along the pipe results in pressure drops along a pipe.
If all the valves are closed (a static situation with no air flow, but bad for pump), the pressure in the pipe will become equalized. Small flows out will result in smaller pressure drops.

Leaky valve ideas:
Depending on what kind of valves you have, you may be able to avoid using new pipe and making new holes (if the holes are not too loose):
1) little metal air valves: take them out, apply PCV glue to the hole, put the valves back in. Blow off the fumes before sending the air to the tanks. The PVC should fill the gap, harden up and make a new thread. Use pliers to snap metal threads free of glue.
2) little metal or plastic valves: Same idea, use silicon sealer. Easier to remove. Less noxious fumes.

[LizStreithorst]

I want equal pressure thought.  I'm not smart enough to know if your telling me that a loop or a dead end is better.  I think that you're telling me that a loop is better.  I asked the lady at Jehmco if I should re-plumb with 1" PVC rather than the 3/4" that I'm using.  She said no, but there has to be that the friction is greater in a 3/4" pipe than in a 1'' pipe.  I am right!

A linear length of pipe, with several taps bleeding air off of it, will result in a pressure drop from a high point near the pump to a low point at the place furthest from the pump.
A loop will connect the far end of the linear pipe to the pump without any taps bleeding air off (in the simplest to explain of case).
This will make another pressure high point at the far end (from the pump) of the pipe. The pressure will then drop off from the high points at both ends of the pipe to a low pressure point somewhere near the middle. This should result in increasing the pressures at the far end of the pipe. Dividing the air flow from the pump in this way will probably reduce the high pressures near the pump a bit. More even distribution.

Now I just need to replace all the air pipes.  It won't be that bad but it will be worse than I thought.  I will have to do stuff that makes my back hurt.  As long as I'm going to go to all this trouble I might as well do it right and tap the threads like Dan suggested.

I can do this.  It won't happen this week end.  I'll stare at it this week end and figure it all out while I'm asleep.  I do my best hard thinking when I sleep

If you have large diameter pipes and small outlets, the pressure drops will be less.
Larger pipe has less resistance to air flow. Besides bleeding off air from valves, resistance along the pipe results in pressure drops along a pipe.
If all the valves are closed (a static situation with no air flow, but bad for pump), the pressure in the pipe will become equalized. Small flows out will result in smaller pressure drops.

Leaky valve ideas:
Depending on what kind of valves you have, you may be able to avoid using new pipe and making new holes (if the holes are not too loose):
1) little metal air valves: take them out, apply PCV glue to the hole, put the valves back in. Blow off the fumes before sending the air to the tanks. The PVC should fill the gap, harden up and make a new thread. Use pliers to snap metal threads free of glue.
2) little metal or plastic valves: Same idea, use silicon sealer. Easier to remove. Less noxious fumes.

[wallace]

If your weakest outlet wasn't as strong as you wanted it, then a loop would help to even out the pressure among the outlets. A larger pipe will always have less friction, but at some point going with a larger pipe won't make a noticeable difference... it will just cost more.

I think if I had that many tanks I would go with 1" pipe and the self-tapping valves. You can use the plastic ones but then you have to thread every hole. And the cost difference is slight.

Speaking of threads... here is one you might remember. There is some food for thought in it.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?79422-CENTRAL-AIR-PUMP

[BillT]

If your weakest outlet wasn't as strong as you wanted it, then a loop would help to even out the pressure among the outlets. A larger pipe will always have less friction, but at some point going with a larger pipe won't make a noticeable difference... it will just cost more.

I agree completely with this. A bit more concise than what I said.
Like Wallace said there will be a point where although a larger pipe will have reduced resistance, there will be diminishing returns on the investment and labor.
Where exactly that tipping point is will depend on how much air is flowing through the pipes. A small flow will experience less pressure loss than a larger flow.

[LizStreithorst]

If your weakest outlet wasn't as strong as you wanted it, then a loop would help to even out the pressure among the outlets. A larger pipe will always have less friction, but at some point going with a larger pipe won't make a noticeable difference... it will just cost more.

I think if I had that many tanks I would go with 1" pipe and the self-tapping valves. You can use the plastic ones but then you have to thread every hole. And the cost difference is slight.

Speaking of threads... here is one you might remember. There is some food for thought in it.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?79422-CENTRAL-AIR-PUMP

lol.  Obviously my memory could use improvement.  It seemed like some of what I was saying was stuff I'd read somewhere...

The valves I'm using are brass with 1/8" pipe threads.  In the past I've just drilled the hole and muscled them in by screwing them.  I like the idea of tapping out the holes better.   

[BallAquatics]

I like the idea of tapping out the holes better.

That's what I do.  You can get a tap at Jehmco ( http://jehmco.com/html/air_accessories.html ), or better hardware/tool stores.  I think I ordered mine on E-Bay for two or three bucks.

It's really easy to tap the soft PVC pipe so you don't really need the T handle for the tap.  I just start the tap by hand and then use a small wrench to finish the job.

Dennis

[waterboy]

I like the idea of tapping out the holes better.

That's what I do.  You can get a tap at Jehmco ( http://jehmco.com/html/air_accessories.html ), or better hardware/tool stores.  I think I ordered mine on E-Bay for two or three bucks.

It's really easy to tap the soft PVC pipe so you don't really need the T handle for the tap.  I just start the tap by hand and then use a small wrench to finish the job.

Dennis

That's what I do. But it took me about three trips to the hardware store to get the right size tap.  If you go to the hardware store to buy a tap, take one of the valves along to get the right size tap. Don't be a klutz like me.