Blacks spawn

[Mugwump]

Eggs pulled, and doing well, wigglers due tomorrow..I finally have some grow out space..

[PaulineMi]

Things are getting busy in the fishroom.

[Mugwump]

Things are getting busy in the fishroom.

Yes'm....changing out the Santa Isabel's pair tank water tomorrow.... ....50/50 too

[Mugwump]

Blacks have wigglers.... ..so far so good, this pair's spawns can be persnickity...

[ilroost]

Nice!! I think out of all the angels i like the blacks the best

[Mugwump]

It's an older pair now, I picked these up from Frank at a GreenWater swap a year or so ago. They're off Steve Rybicki's stock, and carry a streaked/stripeless and a gold..they're both ,also, veils....so they throw Blacks/Black blusher/Golds/ Sunsets...in veil and super veil... ..the spawns are hit and miss sometimes, but I've been feeding them Tetramin and bloodworms....looks decent so far.....Josh has some of their fry...when the batches are good, they're very pretty angels..

[Frank The Plumber]

Tetra Min. It really does make a huge difference on my angels. I have used $20 per pound stuff and the fry just don't do well. If I use Tetra min it's like magic. It's the ethoxyquin.

[PaulineMi]

Frank I'm curious about the ethoxyquin connection.  There had been all kinds of rumors and much controversy about its use in dogfood. It was cosidered the evil of all evils. Then there were many posts on the angelfish board about Tetramin and ethoxyquin being almost a miracle food. 

Ethoxyquin is a preservative and a pesticide.I've tried to find info on its use as anything else but was unsuccessful.  I did find this http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35089. At the bottom of the page it seems to suggest it produced mortality in fish.  (Not sure if its was studied at 50000 times normal dose.   )

So I'm stuck on trying to figure out what makes ethoxyquin work its magic in aquarium fish.

[BallAquatics]

Seems pretty straight forward to me.....

Many pet food manufacturers use ethoxyquin because of it's excellent anti-oxidant qualities, high stability and reputed safety.  However, an ongoing controversy surrounds issues related to its safety when repeatedly fed at permitted amounts in dog foods, particularly when fed to genetically susceptible breeds of inbred or closely linebred dogs.  Toy breeds may be particularly at risk because they ingest proportionately more food and preservative for their size in order to sustain their energy needs.

Here's the entire article  ==>> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/Ethoxyquin.htm

Dennis

[PaulineMi]

 Dr. Dodds has been a pioneer in all things beneficial to dogs including the problems related to  annual vaccinations. She is a proponent of taking blood titers rather than annually vaccinating them and doing fewer "puppy shots".  Ethoxyquin has been removed from most if not all dogfoods several years ago.

Dennis your link and many, many others like it is what made me go out to see how fish would benefit from ethoxyquin. Usually fish and invertebrates are more sensitive to the negative effects of pesticides. Many angelfish people swear by ethoxyquin's positive effects on fertility rates and fry survival. I'm stumped on this one because it seems that this product hasn't been thoroughly tested on aquatic life. Or least I couldn't find much on the web.

[BallAquatics]

Not being very scientific, but off the top of my head I'd say any benefits are probably due to the fact that it is an anti-oxidant.

"...pet food manufacturers use ethoxyquin because of it's excellent anti-oxidant qualities..."

Antioxidants are substances that may protect your cells against the effects of free radicals. Free radicals are molecules produced when your body breaks down food, or by environmental exposures like tobacco smoke and radiation. Free radicals can damage cells, and may play a role in heart disease, cancer and other diseases.

Dennis

[Mugwump]

Blew them off the slate this morning...big water change and all good...

[Frank The Plumber]

This is my Tetra Min theory.

Ethoxyquin is used as an antioxidant to prevent rust on apple skins and other fruits. Most likely the dog food manufacturers used Ethoxyquin to keep the fat and oils on the surface of dog foods from being prone to bacteria and oxidizing as well. It seems to control those bugs etc that eat high quality fats. To entice a dog to eat dog food they cover it in oils and fats to stimulate the dogs tastes capacity.

In an angelfish egg we have a concentration of high quality fats. It may be possible that this nutrition source is under attack while within the female and being stored in the eggs. It certainly is defenseless once laid upon a slate. It is my thought that the ethoxyquin is dosed into the fats by being present in the diet of the fish. This creates and egg fat that contains ethoxyquin. I think the ethoxyquin holds off bacteria and other items off of the fat even into the fry stage and until the fats are completely absorbed.

If the product is removed from the Tetra Min I would seek another anti oxidant to add to my food.

[PaulineMi]

Blew them off the slate this morning...big water change and all good...

That's great news.  Continued good luck with them.

Sorry we hijacked your thread.

[Mugwump]

Blew them off the slate this morning...big water change and all good...

That's great news.  Continued good luck with them.

Sorry we hijacked your thread.

No sweat, knowledge is what we strive for.....it's all very interesting, theory, example, discussion...good food for the cells...