The "mini-cycle"

[BallAquatics]

After a conversation with Allen Repashy last spring, every time I hear the term "mini cycle", it makes me think of Repashy gel foods.   

For me, a mini cycle refers to when your biological filter can not keep up with the amount of ammonia that is produced for just a short amount of time.  It's like a burst of ammonia, overwhelms the capacity of the filter, or more correctly, the amount of bacteria living in and on the filter media.

What on earth could this have to do with Repashy gel foods.....  I'm glad you asked!   

After listening to Allen talk about all that went into the development of the foods, and all the quality ingredients and how the whole formula came together, just as an aside he said, "We have also found that by being able to graze on the food all day, the waste production does not overwhelm the filtration systems". 

At any rate, that was what really pushed me over the top on Allen's food.  If they were so meticulous in putting this product together, that they even monitored ammonia spikes after feeding it, I really needed to give it a try.  I'm glad I did.

Dennis

[LizStreithorst]

I've read about this stuff.  It sounds VERY good.  I'm looking forward to try it with a Discus spawn.  It would be ideal for feeding young grow outs.

[BillT]

So sounds like mini-cycle = the capacity of the biological filter is not able to keep up with peak demand WRT the amount of ammonia being produced. Usually with a newly seeded filter I assume.

Nitrogen processing would involve the nitrifying bacteria. Cloudiness should involve bacteria doing other jobs, probably fast growing (r-type) opportunistic bacteria eating unconsumed food or non-ammonia nutrients in fish waste (partially digested food). Nitrifiers are not active unless on a substrate. Other bacteria can be. They can also opportunistically infect fish if they are in high concentrations (and use up oxygen).

Another term I use is a mature filter, where there are slower growing bacteria that eat these left over nutrients. These are ecologically speaking k-type bacteria and are much more specific to particular kinds of foods. A mature biological filter will have thousands of different species of bacteria. Many of them will grow slowly and eat only specific nutrients, but they are much better to have around because they will not infect your fish.
The r- and K- refer to a mathematical growth formula like x_t=Kx_t=1^r. r-Bacteria exponent depend on rapid growth to take advantage of a nutrient bloom, k-Bacteria have a slow steady growth based on using specific nutrients usually present in low amounts very efficiently.

One of my favorite biological filters are fluidized beds because of the immense surface area they have available for bacteria to grow on (they do have other problems through). Of the surface area of a biological filter is limiting, the slow growing bacteria will be pushed off and shed by more active faster growing bacterial colonies.

[PaulineMi]

A mini cycle also occurs when a fully functioning, established system is thrown off by perhaps overly cleaning the substrate, using some meds, adding several new fish or performing big water changes.

I've been using the Repashy Soilent Green for my plecos and cories. The fish seem to like it and I've been considering getting a Repashy formula for my discus.

[BallAquatics]

So sounds like mini-cycle = the capacity of the biological filter is not able to keep up with peak demand WRT the amount of ammonia being produced. Usually with a newly seeded filter I assume.

I always associate it with just the opposite - a mature filter that is exposed to a sudden spike that overwhelms it's capacity to process the spike.  The cause of the spike could be anything and is really not the issue, but the "mini cycle" that ensues until the filter capacity catches up, or the spike is reduced to a more manageable level.

It would most likely be more of an aquaculture issue where stocking levels are at maximum.  Of course breeders could also face this in grow-out tanks with very high stocking levels.  In the Repashy case, they were growing out tadpoles.  When feeding pellet foods as is common in aquaculture, the ammonia would spike shortly after a feeding and then drop to a low just before the next feeding.  With the tadpoles grazing at a steady rate, water quality was improved because the bacteria normalized at a population level sufficient to handle the ammonia production load level.

Dennis

[Mugwump]

A mini cycle also occurs when a fully functioning, established system is thrown off by perhaps overly cleaning the substrate, using some meds, adding several new fish or performing big water changes.

Also, when jump starting a tank, and the filter is inadequate for sustaining the 'bio' , because it's too small for the new volume of water....that's one reason where stocking should be kept at a minimum until the filters/sponges load up sufficiently...when upgrading tank size, allow for the need of extra established media to bring it up to speed.....

[Frank The Plumber]

 A mini cycle, in my opinion, is related and most likely also caused by a drop in redox levels. When using a redox meter you an see a drop in readily dissolved oxygen slightly after food introduction. The nitrogen cycle is directly driven by available oxygen and the capacity for the system to discharge the gases associated with "burning" feed. This is why you feel sleepy after a big meal, the redox level in your blood is lowered by the saturation of the blood with nutrients. It is then saturated with wastes. If we took readings of our blood we would see drastic swings between the normal and the "feed" cycle. The trick is to either design capacity to absorb this situation or buffer it.

[PaulineMi]

People go through mini-cycles too. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1358030/

[Frank The Plumber]

Pretty neat isn't it?

[LizStreithorst]

Please traslate for the ingorant.  I only read the abstract and all I got from it is that the outcome for liver patients is worse if they have a lot of sugar in their blood.

People go through mini-cycles too. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1358030/

[Frank The Plumber]

The sugar displaces oxygen. Oxygen is required for metabolism. Metabolism burns sugar. Too much sugar basically strips the blood of oxygen and you can't rid yourself of it. This causes tissue and organ poisoning and tissue and organ failure and the whole situation goes into a nose dive.

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks Frank.  I've got it now.  I didn't get the part about sugar dispalcing O2.  Are you sure that you are really a plumber?  I mean no disrespect toward your profesion, but you're the first smart one I've ever come across.

[Mugwump]

Thanks Frank.  I've got it now.  I didn't get the part about sugar dispalcing O2.  Are you sure that you are really a plumber?  I mean no disrespect toward your profesion, but you're the first smart one I've ever come across.

LOL..........

[Frank The Plumber]

I wear long tailed work shirts too.

Butt I do have to suffer the visions if I work with other plumbers.

This is why I went into business for myself. Seeing that every day would cause me to crack up.

[Mugwump]

I wear long tailed work shirts too.

Butt I do have to suffer the visions if I work with other plumbers.

This is why I went into business for myself. Seeing that every day would cause me to crack up.