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How long before it's us?

Started by BallAquatics, July 07, 2015, 02:18:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

GraphicGr8s

Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 02:40:40 PM
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage.  The middle class is disappearing.  I work.  I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle.  It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.

The other stuff, I don't know about.  I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on.  It might explain some graph.

Liz, food stamps and unemployment are up do to the raging economy we have.

Yeah sure.

When we have a good economy we normally wind up with a shortage of good workers. When that has happened in the past minimum wage became irrelevant. Employers wanting good, talented workers would fight for them with their wallets. Good salaries. Signing bonuses. (Yes, it happens in the private sector not just sports) Benefits, etc. The only people that don't benefit as much are those with minimum wage skills. You don't want a minimum wage job? (well during a decent economy anyway) Don't come with minimum wage skills. Can't really afford to pay a person $15/hour to clean the shitter. In a good economy Liz, minimum wage jobs are there so that the kid on summer break from school can get a bit of experience in the working environment. And maybe some spending money for gas and a burger for his date.

Seattle increased their minimum. Employment did go up too. Man hours worked however remained unchanged. That's one reason I no longer trust government employment rates. Firing one full timer and hiring four part timers is a net 3 job increase yet no more hours are paid.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

GraphicGr8s

Quote from: BillT on September 28, 2015, 03:51:21 PM
QuoteBill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?

Blah, blah, blah ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

Mugwump

"G".....merely resorting to semantics isn't going to make you right....

The freak'n middle class is about gone.......you can't blame it directly on the economy or unemployment....the simple fact is wages had become static while the big boys made more and more money for themselves...one of the culprits is outsourcing...note the below article is from 2003 when Bush was in office......and it started way before that.....
  In lieu of the typical wingnut bashing of the Liberal's......why haven't you offered a legitimate solution instead of just popping out Fox entertainment jive.....you bounce from one 'straw man' argument to another, never answering anything...or making a point.....what does the 'G' really think.....surely you have a thought of your own???.....or do you..??

A Statistic That's Missing: Jobs That Moved Overseas       

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/us/a-statistic-that-s-missing-jobs-that-moved-overseas.html

The job market finally showed some life in September, but not enough to sidetrack a growing debate over why employment has failed to rebound nearly two years after the last recession ended. The debate intrudes increasingly on election politics, but in all the heated back and forth, an essential statistic is missing: the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.

The Labor Department, in its numerous surveys of employers and employees, has never tried to calculate this trade-off. But the ''offshoring'' of work has become so noticeable lately that experts in the private sector are now trying to quantify it.

By these initial estimates, at least 15 percent of the 2.81 million jobs lost in America since the decline began have reappeared overseas. Productivity improvements at home -- sustaining output with fewer workers -- account for the great bulk of the job loss. But the estimates being made suggest that the work sent overseas has been enough to raise the unemployment rate by four-tenths of a percentage point or more, to the present 6.1 percent.

That leakage fuels the political debate. The Bush administration is pushing the Chinese to allow their currency to rise in value, thus increasing the dollar value of wages in that country, a deterrent to locating work abroad. The Democrats agree, but some also call for trade restrictions, and they attack Republicans for cutting from the budget funds to retrain and support laid-off workers in the United States.

While most of the lost jobs are in manufacturing or in telephone call centers, lately the work sent abroad has climbed way up the skills ladder to include workers like aeronautical engineers, software designers and stock analysts as China, Russia and India, with big stocks of educated workers, merge rapidly into the global labor market.

''All of a sudden you have a huge influx of skilled people; that is a very disruptive process,'' said Craig R. Barrett, chief executive of Intel, the computer chip manufacturer.

Intel itself has maintained a fairly steady 60 percent of its employees in the United States. But in the past year or so, it has added 1,000 software engineers in China and India, doing work that in the past might have been done by people hired in the United States. ''To be competitive, we have to move up the skill chain overseas,'' Mr. Barrett said.

The trade-off in jobs is not one for one. The work done here by one person often requires two or three less-efficient workers overseas. Even so, given the very low wages, the total saving for an American company can be as much 50 percent for each job shifted, even allowing for the extra cost of transportation, communication and other expenses that would not be needed if the work was done in the United States. That is the message of the nation's management consultants, who are encouraging their corporate clients to take advantage of the multiplying opportunities overseas.

'' 'Encourage' is a difficult way to put it,'' said Harold Sirkin, a senior vice president at the Boston Consulting Group. ''What we are basically saying is that if your competitors are doing this, you will be at a disadvantage if you don't do it too.''

The estimates of job loss from offshoring are all over the lot. They are back-of-the-envelope calculations at best, inferred from trade data and assumptions about the number of American workers needed to produce goods and services now coming from abroad, or no longer exported to a growing consumer market in, say, China.

Among economists and researchers, the high-end estimate comes from Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com, who calculates that 995,000 jobs have been lost overseas since the last recession began in March 2001. That is 35 percent of the total decline in employment since then. While most of the loss is in manufacturing, about 15 percent is among college-trained professionals.

Boeing, for example, employs engineers at a design center in Moscow, while having shrunk its engineering staff in Seattle. Morgan Stanley, the investment firm, is adding jobs in Bombay, but not in New York -- employing Indian engineers as well as analysts who collect corporate data and scrutinize balance sheets for stock market specialists in New York.

Near the low end of the job-loss estimates sit John McCarthy, research analyst at Forrester Research Inc., and Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insights. For them the loss is 500,000 to 600,000 jobs over the past 30 months, again mostly in manufacturing -- with Mr. McCarthy suggesting that the 600,000 might turn out to be 800,000. His research focuses more on the future: Starting in January 2000 and running through 2015, globalization of American production will have eliminated 3.3 million jobs at home, he estimates.

Some are trying niche estimates. Roshi Sood, a government analyst at the Gartner Group, for example, estimates roughly that state government cutbacks have pushed overseas the work of 3,400 people once employed in the United States, either on public payrolls or on the payrolls of companies that contract with state government.

In Indiana, for example, the Department of Workforce Development recently chose an Indian company, TCS America, to maintain and update its computer programs, using high-speed telecommunications to carry out the contract. The TCS bid was $8 million below those submitted by two American competitors, Mr. Sood said.

Now political groups are offering estimates. The Progressive Policy Institute, which is affiliated with the Democratic Party, will soon publish its calculation of manufacturing jobs shifted overseas since George W. Bush took office just before the recession began, said Rob Atkinson, a vice president. Not surprisingly, the estimate -- imputed from trade data -- is on the high side: 800,000 jobs lost to overseas production.
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

LizStreithorst

Bullshit.  I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker.  When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers.  Their pay has not gone up!  I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage.  Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet.  It ain't right.

I knew that I should have ignored this thread.  I tried and failed.   
Always move forward. Never look back.

GraphicGr8s

Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 06:34:55 PM
Bullshit.  I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker.  When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers.  Their pay has not gone up!  I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage.  Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet.  It ain't right.

I knew that I should have ignored this thread.  I tried and failed.

I thought my user name would make it obvious what I do for a living.

I am a printer. I started in the business setting hot type in the 70's. Linotype, ludlow. Heidelbergs. C&PI ran them all. Offset presses also. In fact the current fish house was my press room. Had an AB Dick 360 with a T-Head on for two color stuff. I would get home from running a press or doing graphic design at work then come home and run another press.
When I started working on Co Op in school MW was $2/hour. I negotiated $3/hour. Stayed there for 8 years. Our competitors tried to hire me away. When I left then returned on vacation my old boss offer3ed me his half of the company to come back. Alas Liz money isn't everything and I hated NY. But I would have been able to retire at 48.

No Liz it isn't right. So why do you keep voting in those that make it hard for companies to hire here?
I'm glad Oreo and Ford moved to Mexico. No US government taxing them to death. No asinine thug union either.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

Mugwump

Perhaps this thread needs to rest awhile.....??....


it's the same old back and forth anyway.....
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

BallAquatics

Sums up the National Enquirer, oops, I mean Fox News perfectly.

The whole Obamacare BS makes me chuckle every time I hear it used.  Since the Affordable Care Act was modeled after Mitt Romney?s health care insurance reform laws passed in MA in 2006, shouldn't FOX own up and call it RomneyCare???  Or better yet, stop trying to spin it and muddy up the water and call it what it is..... the Affordable Care Act.

Dennis

Mugwump

Carson: Loss of Keystone Leaves U.S. With No Place to Store Grain
By Andy Borowitz



WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Presidential candidate Ben Carson has issued a dire warning that President Obama?s cancellation of the Keystone Pipeline has left the United States with ?virtually no place to store grain.?

Without the massive pipeline, Carson told Fox News, the nation?s network of silos is woefully inadequate ?to store the bounty of grain that we soweth.?

Carson said that as President, he would seek additional places to store grain, such as ?the hollowed-out heads on Mt. Rushmore.?

?A nation?s greatness is measured by its ability to store grain,? he said. ?I will return America to its former greatness.?
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

what's this untitled graph about.....data unlabeled..??

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

BillT

That's pretty funny!

But sad that it is appropriate these days.