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How long before it's us?

Started by BallAquatics, July 07, 2015, 02:18:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

GraphicGr8s

Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
I'm not here to defend Republicans. You seem to be doing a fine job of it.


Bill, you missed the point. I'm not defending most of the Republicans either.

Last election the voters pretty much gave the Republican party a mandate to stop Hussein from continuing to destroy the US. What most, like Boehner, McConnell, Graham, McCain et al are doing pretty much disgusts any Conservative. Instead of standing up and doing what they were elected to do instead they act like Hussein Lite.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

ghonk

HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.

GraphicGr8s

#287
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 11:18:58 PM
HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.

How so Greg? State your case. Might as well keep it to W since HW was only there for four years. Of course we did have Bill for eight. But fortunately his spending spree was curtailed by Newt and the Contract.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were



Mugwump

I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.

We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..

Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..

We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.

How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

I still love my country.   

 
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

Mugwump

A very interesting read...
====================

Thomas L. Friedman | New York Times

Let?s not mess with pluralism

NORMALLY, WHen your main geopolitical rivals are shooting themselves in both feet, the military manual says step back and enjoy the show. But I take little comfort in watching China burning money and Russia burning food, because in today?s interdependent world we?re all affected.

I also find no joy in it because we Americans, too, have started burning our most important source of competitive advantage ? our pluralism. One of our two political parties has gone nuts and started following a pied piper of intolerance, named Donald Trump.

First, we watched China?s leadership burn money ? trying to prop up a ridiculously overvalued stock market by buying falling stocks with government savings, and then seeing that market continue to collapse because the very fact that the government was intervening suggested no one knew what these stocks were worth.

The Wall Street Journal reported on July 30 that the ?state-owned China Securities Finance Corp. has been spending up to 180 billion yuan a day ($29 billion) to try to stabilize stocks.? Since the Shanghai exchange has fallen sharply since then, the amount of money China burned trying to prop up already unrealistic valuations must be staggering.

The economic management team in Beijing has seriously lost its way. But leaders do funky things when the ruling party?s bargain with its people is ?we get to rule and you get to get rich.? Collapsing markets can quickly lead to collapsing legitimacy.

Ask the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He burned the eastern quarter of Ukraine to distract the Russian middle class from his economic mismanagement and illegitimacy.

Putin decided that building his own Silicon Valley ? the Skolkovo Innovation Center outside of Moscow ? was too hard. So to build his legitimacy he chose nationalism and seized Crimea instead. Putin prefers to manufacture chips on his shoulder than microchips. When the Crimea annexation nationalist sugar high wore off, Putin started burning food imported from countries sanctioning Russia for seizing Crimea from Ukraine.

As The New York Times reported on Aug. 6, ?Following an order by President Vladimir Putin, officials threw huge piles of pork, tomatoes, peaches and cheese into landfills and garbage incinerators. The frenzy, remarkable even by the standards of Russia?s recent politicization of food supplies, was gleefully reported by Russian state television.? This is in a country where food prices have soared because of the collapse of the ruble.

My fear is that once Putin?s food-burning nationalist sugar high wears off, he?ll burn up another neighbor. Estonia, please beware.

Alas, though, America has joined this assets bonfire. We?re now in a world where all top-down authority structures are being challenged. It?s most obvious in the Arab world where you have pluralistic countries that lack pluralism and so could be held together from the top-down only by an iron fist ? and when that iron fist got removed they spun apart. America?s greatest advantage is its pluralism: It can govern itself horizontally by its people of all colors and creeds forging social contracts to live together as equal citizens.

It not only makes us more stable but also more innova?tive, because we can collab?orate internally and exter?nally with anyone anywhere, leveraging more brainpower. Who is the new CEO of Goo?gle? Sundar Pichai. Who is the new CEO of Microsoft? Satya Nadella. Mark Zuckerberg?s family did not come over on the Mayflower.

But right now we?re messing around with that incredible asset. Yes, we must control our borders; it is the essence of sovereignty. It has been a failure of both our polit?ical parties that the Mexi?can- American border has been so porous. So I am for a high wall but with a very big gate ? one that legally lets in energetic low-skilled workers and the high-IQ risk-takers who have made our economy the envy of the world ? and for legislation that provides a pathway for the millions of illegal immigrants already here to gain legal status and eventually citizenship.

In June 2013, the Senate, including 14 Republicans, passed a bill that would do all that. But the extremists in the GOP House refused to follow, so the bill stalled.

And now we have Trump shamelessly exploiting this issue even more. He?s calling for an end to the 14th Amend?ment?s birthright principle, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, and also for a government program to round up all 11 million illegal immigrants and send them home ? an utterly lunatic idea that Trump dismisses as a mere ?management? prob?lem. Like lemmings, many of the other GOP presidential hopefuls just followed Trump over that cliff.

This is not funny anymore. This is not entertaining. Donald Trump is not cute. His ugly nativism shamefully plays on people?s fears and ig?norance. It ignores bipartisan solutions already on the table, undermines the civic ideals that make our melting pot work in ways no European or Asian country can match (try to become a Japanese) and tampers with the very secret of our sauce ? pluralism, that out of many we make one.

Every era spews up a Joe McCarthy type who tries to thrive by dividing and fright?ening us, and today his name is Donald Trump.
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

BallAquatics

Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

My sentiments exactly.  We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers.  At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.

Dennis

BillT

Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

My sentiments exactly.  We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers.  At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.

Dennis

|^|

GraphicGr8s

#294
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.

We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..

Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..

We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.

How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?

I still love my country.   



Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.

I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect. Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.

You want to talk about disrespect look at what they did to W.

As for reelecting the same or same type of person to office, any office, look at what is offered on the table. Gruel. Or gruel. You're free to chose. No one wants to subject themselves to being torn apart by the "press". (That term is used ever so loosely.) A couple of promising hopefuls, like Ted Cruz stood up but most won't.

And I do educate myself. There is no one that knows me personally that would ever say I am a low to no information voter.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

GraphicGr8s

#295
Greg, let's take this one first:

Quote20. To begin with, Bush?s brother Jeb and the American Supreme Court stole the presidency on his behalf in 2000.  Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida at the time, cynically blocked more than 50,000 African-American voters from voting, then refused to allow a simple recount of the Florida votes after tens of thousands of complaints regarding voter difficulties at the voting booth due to confusing ballots. Several major national news organizations have verified that, had the votes been recounted, VP Al Gore would have won the presidency rather than President Bush.

How many times were the ballots counted? Every time they were in W's favor. Let's say, just for giggles they did in fact count them one more time and it went to Gore. What then? Gore gets the position? What about the four times that went to W? The only real place that was in doubt was south Florida. Democrat territory.

Quote3. President Bush and his policies led to the 2007 Great Recession. The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Reserve stood idly by while the big banks created a $600,000,0000,000,000  mortgage-backed derivatives bubble that burst and brought down the global economy

Anyone ever realize that W tried at least 3 times to stop the fall?
2001

    April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."  (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)

2002

    May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

    February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.


    September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.


    September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities ? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ? are not facing any kind of financial crisis ? The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."  (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03) 


    October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."  (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)


    November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk."  To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE."  (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

    February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator:  "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore ? should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator."  (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)


    February: Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted."  Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator."  (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)


    April: Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages.  I don't think we are in any remote danger here.  This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there."  ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)


    June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system.  Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs:  Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System."  (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

    April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America ? Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system."  (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)


    July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)

2007

    August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions.  Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options."  (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)


    August: Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position.  (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)


    December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly.  So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs ? and ensures they focus on their important housing mission.  The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start.  But the Senate has not acted.  And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon."  (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)

2008

    February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully."  (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)


    March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages."  (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)


    April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by ? helping people stay in their homes."  (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)


    May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

        "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes.  Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans."  (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)


        "[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes.  And one way we can do that ? and Congress is making progress on this ? is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator."  (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)


        "Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans."  (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

    June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."  (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)


    July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.


    September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? ? I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years."  (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

Mugwump

Odd....most of these measures have been repealed by the republicans as the current President attempts to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again...Elizabeth warren is a strong advocate of stronger wall street control measures too. The Republicans don't like that....and yes, they didn't like Bush trying to do something preventative too.....they just let Barnie carry the torch for them.

Trouble with George was that he might have talked about it, but couldn't get anything done....and it's the same wall that President Obama is banging on now. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs....on the 1%'ers and their lobbyists......oh and those Congressional members in their hip pockets...


""Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.

I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect.""

If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...
Jon

?Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ?Wow! What a Ride!? ~ Hunter S. Thompson

BallAquatics

Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:01:57 PM
Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.

https://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs

..... sorry no respect for this liar and cheat.

On his worst day our current president is head & shoulder above Bill Clinton in respectability.  Of course you could probably say that for most of the other presidents as well.

Dennis

GraphicGr8s

Quote1. Unlike President Obama, President Bush stood by and watched as 35 million uninsured Americans risked death and financial ruin without proper and affordable health care.

And the Affordable Care Act is working? What needed to be done was a multi step process. HSAs. Selling across state lines. Tort reform to name just a few.

I know my premiums have gone up. And up. And I now pay more OOP than previously. So while my wexpenses have gone up salary is stagnant.

Quote7. Bush created spiraling federal deficits. After President Clinton handed him an annual budget surplus, President Bush single-handedly drove our country into that by creating the three biggest drivers of federal debt: the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and Medicare part D. according to a recent report by a Harvard researcher, the total costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars will end up being somewhere between $4 and $6 trillion.

Well let's compare that to us. If I have a car and for the first little while I take care of it I have "x" amount of expenditure. Now what happens if I stop? I of course save money. And it may run fine. At least until I sell it in 4 years. Then after I am done with it the engine blows up. Replace the engine. Cost? More than maintenance would have been but hey IK saved money. Same with the money Clinton didn't spend on our military. He decimated it like Carter and like Reagan W had to rebuild it.

If you owe trillions of dollars how the devil do you ever have a surplus? I owe 148,000 on the house and $6,000 on a CC. Until both are paid off I won't have a surplus.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-bill-clinton-didnt-balance-budget

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were

GraphicGr8s

#299
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 07:37:15 PM


If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...

But it is his name. I do not call him names like the libs did/do to W. W got torn apart by the libs.

I can't stand my middle name yet some still insist.

Dennis, I will respectfully disagree on Slick. At least he somewhat loves this country. Hussein does not.
There is no such thing as MTS.
West coast of the east coast of North America
Personal Image Management Professional
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.
There are only two types of people. Italians and those that wish they were