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[Mugwump]

[Mugwump]

I should add that these are from Dale.....the dark fin angels are the Bulgarian seal points, the others are Pinoy, 'het' for bg...not pictured is a white 'het' bg with inverted striping.....

...well done, Dale...

[waterboy]

I didn't do anything but feed them and keep their tank clean.  They did it all themselves. I have about 20 or so of the Seal Points growing out now. I am so fearful that they won't spawn when they mature that I am afraid to sell any until I get a good breeding pair or two.  So far spawning has been very erratic. May need to do more outcrossing to try to get them some stronger genes.

The parents of those are a Bulgarian Seal Point (D/g,pb/pb,bg/bg) and a Lace Pinoy Het (D/+,pb/pb,+/bg)

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....they're settling in nicely now....when I first fed them they waited for the food to drift off the top....now they hammer it at the surface....LOL...gotta watch your fingers....

How old are these now, Dale?

[ghonk]

Are the BSP's PB also,or het PB?

[Mugwump]

Are the BSP's PB also,or het PB?

..pb/pb......

[ghonk]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry. 

[waterboy]

....they're settling in nicely now....when I first fed them they waited for the food to drift off the top....now they hammer it at the surface....LOL...gotta watch your fingers....

How old are these now, Dale?

They were spawned on June 26th so they are about three months old.

[waterboy]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

[Mugwump]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

...my thoughts too...plus  'het' vs homogeneous of either pb or bg sets off a whole different scenario too.....crazy....

[ghonk]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

Raiko made no mention of his original  seal points having PB genes.

From his posts on TAF i'm confident they didn't have it. 
He also added the BG gene to MANY genotypes,and those detailed results never mentioned any of those fish carrying PB either.

[Mugwump]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

Raiko made no mention of his original  seal points having PB genes.

From his posts on TAF i'm confident they didn't have it. 
He also added the BG gene to MANY genotypes,and those detailed results never mentioned any of those fish carrying PB either.

...BS Greg and you know it.....every genetic scrip produced had at least 'het' pb.....I made a point of looking it..... he couldn't even produce a bg/bg stand alone angel.....even Dena received a hodpodge of genes in hers......if it was so simple then someone would have gotten a stand alone bg/bg angel by now and had a gold mine.....Lord knows many have tried..

[Mugwump]

Same thing happening to  Pterophyllum
....posted in TAS today...but he's still trying....

""Update on batch #3
    I've always said that in trying to identify what's going on with a new gene, that it's not always necessary to cross to a wildtype silver, so long as you can clearly identify the influences of the other gene(s) in the mix....
    Well, here I am over 3 months on and I'm still trying to work out exactly what I have!
    It would appear that I may well have got the genotype of both parents wrong. In order to help work out exactly what's going on I've repaired the male with a different female and I'll post more on that in a week or two when I'm 100% sure of what I have in the mix.
    So watch this space. ""

[ghonk]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

Raiko made no mention of his original  seal points having PB genes.

From his posts on TAF i'm confident they didn't have it. 
He also added the BG gene to MANY genotypes,and those detailed results never mentioned any of those fish carrying PB either.

...BS Greg and you know it.....every genetic scrip produced had at least 'het' pb.....I made a point of looking it..... he couldn't even produce a bg/bg stand alone angel.....even Dena received a hodpodge of genes in hers......if it was so simple then someone would have gotten a stand alone bg/bg angel by now and had a gold mine.....Lord knows many have tried..

He had post after post that showed the DETAILED results of his crosses.
He added the (BG ) gene to just about  EVERY genotype possible,if not all.


DETAILED results of all of those crossed,those results NEVER mentioned ANY of the offspring carrying PB.( The PB gene was added in LATER crosses)


He was trying to determine how the BG affected different genotypes,it would be CRAZY to use PB fish in those crosses,because the PB fish would ALSO affect phenotype.


He DID do crosses with PB fish at a LATER time.
AFTER he pretty much exhausted all other crosses to NON PB fish. 

[Mugwump]

Any plans to breed the PB out of any of them?
If i'm figuring right you would get 50% non PB's after 2 crosses.

And then would have to do another cross to determine which of those are don't carry.

Right now the only plans I have are to get a spawning pair or two. After that there are no plans. At this point I suspect that the double blue and double Bulgarian Green genes are modifying the Black gene to produce the seal points.  Not sure if you would have Seal Points without both.  Of course that is probably the point.

Raiko made no mention of his original  seal points having PB genes.

From his posts on TAF i'm confident they didn't have it. 
He also added the BG gene to MANY genotypes,and those detailed results never mentioned any of those fish carrying PB either.

...BS Greg and you know it.....every genetic scrip produced had at least 'het' pb.....I made a point of looking it..... he couldn't even produce a bg/bg stand alone angel.....even Dena received a hodpodge of genes in hers......if it was so simple then someone would have gotten a stand alone bg/bg angel by now and had a gold mine.....Lord knows many have tried..

He had post after post that showed the DETAILED results of his crosses.
He added the (BG ) gene to just about  EVERY genotype possible,if not all.


DETAILED results of all of those crossed,those results NEVER mentioned ANY of the offspring carrying PB.( The PB gene was added in LATER crosses)


He was trying to determine how the BG affected different genotypes,it would be CRAZY to use PB fish in those crosses,because the PB fish would ALSO affect phenotype.


He DID do crosses with PB fish at a LATER time.
AFTER he pretty much exhausted all other crosses to NON PB fish.

....I agree, he has no idea what he has/had.....and the pb was there on his first exchanges on TAFII,,,,,...but I think Rob will stay determined to find out what's going on......I know, if possible, I'll cross to my blue glitters....and then see what happens with sibling crosses.... ....BGS with glitter....