I was listening to the talks about Greece and their "Failed State" and I was wondering how long before it will be us here in this country as well. We are $18,3000,000,000.00 dollars past being broke. If each tax payer in the US would come up with $154,375.00 dollars we would be out-of-debt as a nation.....
Dennis
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
Dennis
I guess the difference is we always a have a very fluid economy. We make money, accrue debt, pay debt, repeat....not really perfect, eh?
We are still the favored place to put money for people whose countries are going through hard times. Once that changes it will be all over. Heck. We don't even have the money to repair and upgrade our infrastructure. Thing of all the jobs that would be created if were to do that.
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)
Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:52:09 PM
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)
Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)
Dennis
....China?....nope....they have more financial issues than meets the eye....plus serious unrest in their labor market.....they are artificially propping up their currency now.....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 03:56:09 PM
....China?....nope....
I'm not so sure. I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now. That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece. Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.
In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country. Part of the problem really. Nope, can't happen here.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 04:02:43 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 03:56:09 PM
....China?....nope....
I'm not so sure. I was listening to a discussion the other day and about half the folks there were saying it could happen any day now. That was one of the points on PBS this morning about the troubles in Greece. Would it spread to the US and be the straw that breaks the camels back.
In many ways, I think we are in denial in this country. Part of the problem really. Nope, can't happen here.....
Dennis
Maybe so...........but the 'doom sayers' really stretch reality in there discussions fortified by a lot of 'what ifs'...it's gotten more political, than rational...
---Greece's issue is a way different, they were absorbed/admitted into the 'euro' community, which is now trying to caste unwanted control on Greece's financial future. I mean come on....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....both of them had those debts forgiven....handcuffing Greece with all the debt, and demanding it be paid, plus wanting to dictate the methodology of how it's done would just make Greece a slave country for many decades...and drag the 'euro' down with it........Greece was wise to reject the offer/plan.....but they still need to crack down internally and get their house in order.....
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case. I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life. And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.
US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.
Quote from: BillT on July 07, 2015, 07:23:14 PM
Europe's problem is that they have a unified currency without a unified monetary policy.
Greece can't be forced to make its books balance by the rest of Europe, but they share a common currency.
US state governments are required to balance their budgets. This would be like Greece wrt the rest of Europe.
The national US budget deficit could be easily balanced (as Clinton did).
If this were maintained, the overall deficit would have disappeared by now.
Most people don't really understand how our currency works. Greece has to borrow from the EU. We with fiat currency actually don't have to borrow money. We can print money up to the value of our assets. Care to guess the value of American assets?
The Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand. Most people don't understand debt and deficit. If you want to believe we had a surplus you can in reality thank N. Gingrich. And that's as far as I am willing to go political here.
Quote from: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 04:22:09 PM
....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....
Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation. It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.
And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile. They love it when we do that in the UK too. More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 08, 2015, 07:35:52 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 07, 2015, 04:22:09 PM
....both Germany and France shouting for Greece to repay all their debt....when they, themselves, never paid their debts from WWI or WWII....
Yea, I must admit I got smile on my face as they were talking about that part of the situation. It's always looked at a bit differently when the shoe is on the other foot.
And Graphic is right, we can just keep printing money, it worked for the Confederacy for awhile. They love it when we do that in the UK too. More and more Brits come to the US on holiday as we're having a half price sale with our weak dollar.
Dennis
Since we are not backed by precious metals the value of our money will fluctuate. But look at the price of gold and imagine what a loaf of bread would cost if we were still backed by gold. The value of the dollar has ebbed and flowed many times in the past and yet it is still what people want no matter where they are from. They realize that while we may be having a tough time right now in the end it will be a profitable venture.
Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 08, 2015, 07:59:57 AM
Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.
Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform..... sound familiar?
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 08, 2015, 08:37:08 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 08, 2015, 07:59:57 AM
Greece's main problem is they ran out of OPM.
Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reform..... sound familiar?
Dennis
The one difference however is our money.
One of Greece's bigger problems is they don't collect taxes well.....and those taxes are way too low in many areas....with not much money coming in, and an ineffective tax structure, they couldn't even hope to become solvent...
That's why no one should loan them any more money that they can't/WON'T pay back.
Quote from: ghonk on July 08, 2015, 12:54:51 PM
That's why no one should loan them any more money that they can't/WON'T pay back.
Actually I think they voted 'NO',... because they don't want any more money/control from anyone.
Quote from: Barb on July 07, 2015, 06:24:44 PM
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case. I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life. And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
That's not a bad idea, Barb. I find it comforting. The question is, however, will that money be worth anything when the fall hits? I would love to hear thoughts on this...
Quote from: Ron Sower on July 08, 2015, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: Barb on July 07, 2015, 06:24:44 PM
Hearing what is going on there makes me want to keep a large stash of cash at home, just in case. I can't imagine how awful it must be to have money in the bank and not have access to it for even the basics of life. And it isn't like money in the bank is drawing any interest these days...
Barb
That's not a bad idea, Barb. I find it comforting. The question is, however, will that money be worth anything when the fall hits? I would love to hear thoughts on this...
..if it ever should hit....better have some survival skills.....or Ron, you got 'duckie'.... ;D....stock up..
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 07, 2015, 02:52:09 PM
Jan. 8, 1835 was the last time the United States had - or came anywhere near a national debt of $0.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html (http://www.networkworld.com/article/2223792/data-center/178-years-ago-today-we-had-a-national-debt-of--0.html)
Is China about to overtake the US as the world?s superpower?
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-china-about-to-overtake-the-us-as-the-worlds-superpower/story-e6frflo9-1227125853817)
Dennis
The latest from China....
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/07/08/market-wrap-stocks-end-sharply-lower-china-fears-nyse-shutdown/ (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/07/08/market-wrap-stocks-end-sharply-lower-china-fears-nyse-shutdown/)
""Chinese shares have fallen more than 30 percent in the last three weeks, and some investors fear China's turmoil is now a bigger risk than the crisis in Greece.
"I don't think the Greece situation is a focus in the markets beyond the short term," said Tim Ghriskey, chief investment officer of Solaris Group in Bedford Hills, New York. "This is really about China where the sell-off continues unabated despite efforts by People's Bank of China to halt this."""
QuoteThe Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.
This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.
Quote from: BillT on July 09, 2015, 09:41:45 AM
QuoteThe Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.
This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.
All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: BillT on July 09, 2015, 09:41:45 AM
QuoteThe Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.
This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.
All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.
Au Contraire..........Clinton did a fine job in office. It was Bush that gave it all back......and we're just starting to recover now....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 11:11:57 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: BillT on July 09, 2015, 09:41:45 AM
QuoteThe Clinton "surplus" is in fact a myth dealing with fuzzy math and accounting sleight of hand.
This would be a difficult statement to support this statement with any kind of reputable source.
All depends on which "side" you choose to believe. Either way, none of the "surplus" would have occurred if Clinton were left to his ways. Clinton in effect became irrelevant after 92.
Au Contraire..........Clinton did a fine job in office. It was Bush that gave it all back......and we're just starting to recover now....
I thought you didn't get political Jon. You just opened up a can of worms. Would you like the rhetoric or just the facts? Or will this get closed?
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
What is the "Great Salt Debate"?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
What is the "Great Salt Debate"?
LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....
as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
What is the "Great Salt Debate"?
LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....
as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....
Oh that salt debate. I wasn't sure if it was that or whether to soak your frozen bait in brine before putting it on the hook.
I have discussions with customers here at work on politics. Since it's in person I can usually tell if the other guy/gal will treat it just as a discussion albeit a heated one or not. All of the folks I discuss it with in person are pretty much my opposite politically. And after our "discussion" we shake hands or give each other a hug. 99% of them meet the unsweetened ice tea criteria.
So it was a salt treaty.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
What is the "Great Salt Debate"?
LOL.....we had some real hard feelings about the use/need for salt..............it's a banned discussion now, so no repeats.....
as for politics, Clinton?.....it was just a comment, not an open volley in a debate............I feel the same about political discussions....they can go awry quickly and escalate into arguments that create unnecessary bad feelings amongst folks.....let's keep it casual, and neutral.....it's better that way....
Oh that salt debate. I wasn't sure if it was that or whether to soak your frozen bait in brine before putting it on the hook.
I have discussions with customers here at work on politics. Since it's in person I can usually tell if the other guy/gal will treat it just as a discussion albeit a heated one or not. All of the folks I discuss it with in person are pretty much my opposite politically. And after our "discussion" we shake hands or give each other a hug. 99% of them meet the unsweetened ice tea criteria.
I have 'face to face' discussions with folks too.....but the internet is a funny place when talking about anything political...and any other controversial topic....words typed are without the body, or facial, mannerisms that can tip you off when things are cool..or rapidly deteriorating.......and then there's semantics...or a pseudo feeling of superior.....knowing a person only by their handle can cause things to be said that you wouldn't normally say with someone standing in front of you.....
Quote from: ghonk on July 09, 2015, 02:16:34 PM
So it was a salt treaty.
...LOL.....not quite...... 8)
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
I have the feeling that most, if not all here, would pass the Iced Tea Treaty Criteria. Unsweetened of course.
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now. Especially Jeb. He was a good governor but he would suck as POTUS.
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
LOL Yep, I could never figure out why Ron got so upset about it. I don't think any of us cared any more about whether he used salt, that we did about what kind of car he drove. I remember telling him sevral times that I hoped he had good luck with it, but that just seemed to make him more obsessed about it.
I see him selling cories on AquaBid from time to time. I wonder if he salts them too?
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....
...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....
..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 11:49:14 AM
Let us not forget the great salt debate! :P
LOL Yep, I could never figure out why Ron got so upset about it. I don't think any of us cared any more about whether he used salt, that we did about what kind of car he drove. I remember telling him sevral times that I hoped he had good luck with it, but that just seemed to make him more obsessed about it.
I see him selling cories on AquaBid from time to time. I wonder if he salts them too?
Dennis
LOL............that's bad.....LOL
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:38:32 PM
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now.
That's really the problem isn't it. I normally lean towards the Republicans as I've always thought the Democrats treated me as if I'm too stupid to look out for myself, but this last election......
Dennis
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
I have the feeling that most, if not all here, would pass the Iced Tea Treaty Criteria. Unsweetened of course.
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now. Especially Jeb. He was a good governor but he would suck as POTUS.
I agree, there's slim pickings out there now....and Jeb?...what was he thinking when he tossed his hat in the ring.....Trump?...he's a carnival side show.....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:42:36 PM
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....
Well let me be the first to say, that you do a wonderful job of keeping us on the straight and narrow Jon. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:38:32 PM
And I really don't like any of the candidates available to us now.
That's really the problem isn't it. I normally lean towards the Republicans as I've always thought the Democrats treated me as if I'm too stupid to look out for myself, but this last election......
Dennis
Amen. Unfortunately the repubicans <<sic>> are looking like democrat lite. They were handed a mandate last election and are pretty much rubberstamping (not that I mind rubber stamping I worked for a marking device manufacturer for 10 years) the opposition.
The only ones I see coming out are Ted Cruz and maybe, maybe Scott Walker. Walker has some beliefs that don't run concurrent with mine. Trump, while correct and outspoken and pretty fearless about it just isn't POTUS material. Jeb and Common Core and immigration take him out of the game for me. Anyone who is for Common Core or illegal immigration won't get my vote.
You ever take those tests on line to see which party you relate too? Seems I am more Libertarian than Conservative.
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:49:04 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:42:36 PM
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....
Well let me be the first to say, that you do a wonderful job of keeping us on the straight and narrow Jon. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
Dennis
Thanks.....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....
...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....
..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue. I do my best whether F2F or on Facebook to not do that even though some of the others will. If I were attacking on a personal level that means no Unsweetened Ice Tea. I don't like that.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
A bit of thoughtful disagreement leads to better ideas. That's what I used to tell the other folks here on the town council. These days no one wants to rock the boat, or heaven forbid, be politically incorrect.
I don't care if you agree with me or not. Perhaps you have a better idea or great insight to share. Let's hear it and we will go from there. But it's a two way street. Far too many folks take it personal when someone disagrees with them.
It's a testament to the quality of the folks we have here, that we can discuss timely issues without it getting out of hand.
Dennis
Yes, it is.......we have a good group and we appreciate one another......remember tho, sometimes it's not the participants that get the ruffled feathers...it's the casual observer that gets offended....that's usually the way a melee gets started anyway.....
I guess that I'm overly cautious in that respect....that's all....like a mother hen, I don't want to see any hurt feelings....
...like I said, being 'face to face', or with a group of people is one thing......but being on the internet can be a whole different ball game where discussions are concerned....
..however, we seem to be handling it well so far......let's see what happens?....
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue. I do my best whether F@F or on Facebook to not do that even though some of the others will. If I were attacking on a personal level that means no Unsweetened Ice Tea. I don't like that.
Bingo.....ya nailed it.......it gets ugly quick after that...................
Why the hell do I see the spelling mistake I make after someone quotes it? Arrrggghhhg
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.
I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.
I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.
Dennis
spot on Dennis...a second Bingo !!...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 09, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
I think a lot of it stems from some people who attack the other person personally instead of the issue.
I would concur, but I also think that many times folks take not being agreed with as a personal attack when in fact it is not.
Dennis
That needs a like button.
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:24:19 PM
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
What were we originally discussing again?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:24:19 PM
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
What were we originally discussing again?
LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)
If you salt the cories do you grill them or is it a cevich type dish? :o
Quote from: b125killer on July 09, 2015, 05:12:01 PM
If you salt the cories do you grill them or is it a cevich type dish? :o
oh joy, here we go......
Nicknamed the 'Donald Trump Caterpillar', this creature is actually a flannel moth. They are found in Mexico, southern parts of the US, and some parts of central America. This one was found in the Amazon rainforest
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/01/article-2317145-198D5145000005DC-43_634x476.jpg)
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 08:09:58 PM
Nicknamed the 'Donald Trump Caterpillar', this creature is actually a flannel moth. They are found in Mexico, southern parts of the US, and some parts of central America. This one was found in the Amazon rainforest
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/01/article-2317145-198D5145000005DC-43_634x476.jpg)
Poor thing.
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:24:19 PM
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
What were we originally discussing again?
LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)
Greece and Turkey. Do you baste the Turkey with the Greece when baking?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 10, 2015, 08:05:33 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 09, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 09, 2015, 03:24:19 PM
I just made this a 'sticky'......it's a good start to ongoing discussion.......
What were we originally discussing again?
LOL....started with Greece....then meandered a bit.... 8)
Greece and Turkey. Do you baste the Turkey with the Greece when baking?
You can add Puerto Rico to the mix....they're having issues too...
While Greece won't affect us too much PR may be a different story. Guess they're all running out of OPM
..interesting read..........
======================
The Roots of Puerto Rico?s Debt Crisis?and Why Austerity Will Not Solve It
The US government is at least partially responsible for the emergency, which is affecting millions of what are effectively second-class US citizens.
By Ed Morales
Riding through the hills of Can?vanas last weekend with Prima, a vacationing 65-year-old Brooklynite who was born and raised in the Puerto Rican countryside, I got a brief lesson on the island?s history and political economy. ?This land was all ca?averales,? she said, meaning rough acres of sugarcane, which has now been replaced by mile after mile of suburban tract housing. ?When that ended, some people worked in factories and construction. Now, I don?t know what?s going to happen. I think the empire is collapsing.?
Today that history has caught up with the island. Puerto Rico?an unincorporated territory of the United States with 3.5 million US citizen residents who do not have the right to vote for president or representation in Congress?is making headlines these days because of its inability to pay a $72 billion debt owed to holders of its devalued bonds, often issued through such entities as the infamous PREPA, the electrical power authority. The threat of default was signaled by Governor Alejandro Garc?a Padilla?s admission last week to The New York Times that the debt was ?not payable.?
The debt crisis, which has spurred comparisons to Argentina, Detroit, and, of course, the recent tumultuous events in Greece, occurs at the climax of a local recession that began in 2006, two years before the Great Recession, and is accompanied by other bad news. Because of the government?s shrinking tax base and huge debt-service expense, a sales tax of 11.5 percent?higher than in any state in the Union?has been imposed. Hundreds of schools are closing, and more than 31,000 jobs have been lost since Garc?a Padilla took office two and a half years ago. A healthcare crisis is looming because of a proposed cut of $150 million in Medicare Advantage reimbursements. The unemployment rate, now more than 13 percent, is bad, but it pales in comparison to a dismal workforce participation rate of around 40 percent?far worse than the US rate, which is itself at a 38-year low of 62.6 percent. As a result, the island is in the throes of a persistent depopulation, with about 200,000 migrating to the mainland over the past decade.
What Puerto Rico has in common with Greece is that it is a peripheral economy that has been invaded by hedge funds and pushed, by speculation and ballooning debt-service payments, to its limits. But since Puerto Rico?s banks are tied to the US Federal Reserve and not its own government, there is no bank panic. What it has in common with Detroit is a history of inefficient administrations that borrowed to pay for pension payments and services, but, unlike municipalities in the 50 states, Puerto Rico cannot declare bankruptcy. Its territorial status also made its bonds triple-tax-exempt for any buyer, adding to the lure of their high yield and fueling the desires of an erratic muni bond market for paper that would quickly become junk.
Garc?a Padilla?s announcement came about a year after he passed a law to restructure the debt, which was struck down in court in February (on Tuesday the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston upheld the decision on appeal, citing a 1984 decision by Congress that excludes US territories from Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection). He simply came to the conclusion that with zero economic growth and a debt-to-GNP ratio of about 100 percent, the situation was untenable. ?This is not politics, this is math,? he said. The moderate mainstream holds that the island?s only recourse?a path that is supported by presidential candidates like Democrats Hillary Clinton and Martin O?Malley, independent Bernie Sanders, and Republican Jeb Bush?is to petition Congress to change the bankruptcy laws so that Puerto Rico would be allowed to file.
But even if bankruptcy protection were granted, it would most likely entail painful austerity measures. The recommendations of last week?s Krueger Report, ?Puerto Rico: A Way Forward,? commissioned by Puerto Rico?s government and put together by several current and former IMF employees, are clearly along those lines. Among other things, the report recommended shrinking the size of the government, lowering the minimum wage, and trimming federal entitlements?including Medicaid and Medicare, which would be a particularly dire step, since 2 million people, or roughly 60 percent of Puerto Rico?s residents, depend on those programs. The report also recommended making it more difficult to get overtime pay?on the same week that President Obama expanded it for US mainland workers. For its part, the Obama administration is saying that no bailout is being contemplated, although it is urging Congress to consider changing the law to allow Puerto Rico to declare bankruptcy. Last February, Pedro Pierluisi, the resident commissioner of Puerto Rico, who is the island?s non-voting representative in Congress and a member of both the pro-statehood party and the US Democratic Party, introduced HR 870, which would accomplish that. The bill has not made much progress, however; the latest action was in March, when it was referred to the Subcommittee on Regulatory Reform, Commercial and Antitrust Law. Most House Republicans are against the measure, considering it a bailout, despite the fact that most of Puerto Rico?s pro-statehood party is affiliated with the GOP, most notably Alaska?s Don Young.
In his telecast speech on June 30, Garc?a Padilla said he was not in favor of lowering wages, but he also said he would push for ?legislation to make our laws more competitive? to promote job creation, which is code for doing just that. What many left-leaning Puerto Rican economists and political theorists are saying is that they agree, as the Krueger Report says, that the island?s economy has deep structural problems. It?s the report?s remedy that they disagree with, especially when it?s been shown that austerity in times of recession tends to depress economies further.
Working People?s Party spokesperson and University of Puerto Rico professor Rafael Bernabe supports a recent legislative proposal to audit the debt, as was done in Greece, where that process called the imposition of the debt ?premeditated? and ?immoral.? In fact, Puerto Rico has become the victim of a high-stakes game of hedge-fund casino gambling, with about 43 percent of the debt held by so-called vulture funds and Wall Street banks and lawyers charging over $1.4 billion in a seven-year period between 2006 and 2013 for charges like swap termination fees. ?We want to study the general conditions that led to the creation of the debt, the terms of the contracts, the role of intermediaries,? said Bernabe in an interview with The Nation.
For the most part, the debt crisis has been portrayed as something that arose after the advent of the current ten-year recession. But in fact, Puerto Rico?s government has been borrowing to finance its expenses since the 1970s, when the limited success of the post?World War II Operation Bootstrap, which transformed its economy from an agricultural one to a light manufacturing one, lost its luster. The resulting cure, Section 936 of the IRS code, exempted US and multinational corporations from paying taxes on profits, but that spur to investment was phased out between 1996 and 2006. Meanwhile, NAFTA had already depressed wages in nearby Mexico, making Puerto Rican workers too high-priced, and a construction and infrastructure building boom that was partly financed by bond-selling had burst, driving the island?s economy into its current death spiral.
Herein lies the Puerto Rican economy?s ?structural problem?: It?s not about workers having salaries and benefits that are too high; it?s about the fact that the island?s territorial status means that since the days of the 19th-century sugar growers, whose drive to avoid tariffs were an early manifestation of hemispheric free trade, capital has fled the island at a steady rate, without interruption. ?The economy of Puerto Rico is mainly controlled by US corporations, which generate a tremendous amount of profit that is not reinvested and does not create economic growth,? said Bernabe. ?It?s a cycle of dependency that reproduces itself.?
It?s reasonable to ask whether the US government is at least partially responsible for the crisis?both through creation of the nebulous commonwealth status and the actions of its financial institutions?and whether it has a moral obligation to help resolve it through financial support. In 2004, legal scholar Pedro Malavet suggested that it was the social construction of Puerto Ricans as a non-white race that made them ?unassimilable as Americans,? cementing their colonized status, and that they were therefore owed reparations.
While the idea of asking for reparations may have lost its feasibility after the Great Recession, both the United States and the ruling party of Puerto Rico should begin to view the debt crisis as a human problem affecting millions of what are effectively second-class US citizens, and not a matter of business mathematics. If mainstream politics on the mainland refuses to consider a restructuring of the US economy away from a blind profit motive, it should at least have the intelligence and decency to help Puerto Rico restructure its own economy to create new modes of capital reinvestment on the island, just as it would anywhere on the mainland.
Some argue that a change in political status is necessary to effect real change in the economy. Statehooders push for entrance to the union?highly unlikely, given the Republican-controlled Congress bent on reducing spending, which statehood would sharply increase, not to mention the probability that Puerto Rican voters would send Democratic representatives and senators to Congress. On June 22, the UN Special Committee on Decolonization called once again for the United States to ?expedite a process that would allow Puerto Ricans to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination and independence.?
Any movement for independence, which might choose to lobby for reparations, needs to highlight class, race, and gender marginalization, as well as environmental reform, as part of its agenda. New parties that do not prioritize status change, such as All Puerto Ricans for Puerto Rico, the Sovereign Unity Movement, and the Working People?s Party have tried to enter the arena, but according to political scientist Manuel Almeida, ?the rules of the game? in the island?s political structure have hindered their emergence. Puerto Rico?s ruling party has used technical challenges to delay the Working People?s Party?s re-certification for elections, despite electoral reform that had allowed the new parties to field candidates for the 2012 elections.
With an overly moralistic tone directed at the island?s mostly Catholic residents, Governor Garc?a Padilla spoke of ?shared sacrifices,? in which the community, supposedly complicit in the actions of an irresponsible government, would share the pain with the bondholders. But many Puerto Ricans I?ve spoken with, from academia to the working class, agree that they?ve sacrificed enough, and that it?s time for those most responsible for creating this mess to own up to their transgressions.
http://www.thenation.com/article/the-roots-of-puerto-ricos-debt-crisis-and-why-austerity-will-not-solve-it/
Pope calls for new economic order, criticizes capitalism
Pope Francis on Thursday urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a "new colonialism" by agencies that impose austerity programs and calling for the poor to have the "sacred rights" of labor, lodging and land.
In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the "so-called conquest of America."
Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money "the dung of the devil," and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labor for developed countries.
Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical "Laudato Si" on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.
Francis made the address to participants of the second world meeting of popular movements, an international body that brings together organizations of people on the margins of society, including the poor, the unemployed and peasants who have lost their land. The Vatican hosted the first meeting last year.
He said he supported their efforts to obtain "so elementary and undeniably necessary a right as that of the three ?L?s?: land, lodging and labor."
His speech was preceded by lengthy remarks from leftist Bolivian President Evo Morales, who wore a jacket adorned with the face of Argentine revolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara. He was executed in Bolivia in 1967 by CIA-backed Bolivian troops.
"Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change," the pope said, decrying a system that "has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0PJ29B20150710
That's cute, and coming from the leader of what?s probably the wealthiest institution in the entire world. Heaven knows the catholic church has never participated in the unfettered pursuit of money or worldly goods. LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 11, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
That's cute, and coming from the leader of what?s probably the wealthiest institution in the entire world. Heaven knows the catholic church has never participated in the unfettered pursuit of money or worldly goods. LOL
Dennis
The church's all have many sins....the current Pope can' be blamed for them at all.....I'm not Catholic, but it's obvious that he's way different than past papal leaders. I give him kudos for speaking out.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...
Quote from: Mugwump on July 11, 2015, 10:21:06 AM
.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...
He's definitely got his work cut out for him....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 11, 2015, 10:44:36 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 11, 2015, 10:21:06 AM
.....he's a welcome change from the past Pope's.....more down to earth for sure...
He's definitely got his work cut out for him....
Dennis
...that he does....
Pope Francis and Humane Ecology
http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/ (http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 12, 2015, 07:51:16 AM
Pope Francis and Humane Ecology
http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/ (http://iasc-culture.org/THR/channels/THR/2015/07/pope-francis-and-humane-ecology/)
Dennis
"Francis offers a hopeful, humane ecology. As John Murdock argues, anyone looking for good companion reading for Laudato Si? should consider the works of Wendell Berry, who has spent the past half century articulating his own Christian integral ecology. The title of Berry?s most recent essay collection is Our Only World, while the title page of Laudato Si? defines its subject as the ?care of our common home.?
At the end of one essay Berry writes, ?To learn to meet our needs without continuous violence against each other and our only world would require an immense intellectual and practical effort, requiring the help of every human being perhaps to the end of human time. This would be work worthy of the name ?human.? It would be fascinating and lovely.? Laudato Si? suggests that Pope Francis would agree."
Borowitz breaks me up......LOL
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Borowitz-Scott-Walker-690.jpg)
MADISON, WISCONSIN (The Borowitz Report) ? Serving notice that he intends to go toe-to-toe with the controversial real-estate mogul, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker used the official announcement of his Presidential candidacy to assure Republican voters that he is as horrible as Donald Trump.
?Donald Trump has grabbed a lot of headlines over the past few weeks by spewing bigotry and venom,? Walker told an enthusiastic crowd of supporters. ?I want to make it clear that when it comes to those things, I take a back seat to no one.?
Concluding his speech with a line that triggered a standing ovation, Walker said, ?To those who thought Donald Trump was the only sociopath in the race, let me say this: not anymore.?
Prior to his announcement, aides to the Wisconsin governor had privately fretted that by establishing his identity as an arrogant and ill-informed merchant of hatred, Trump had appropriated Walker?s brand.
In the hopes of proving that Trump has no monopoly on odiousness, aides have released a point-by-point comparison showing that on such key issues as worker?s rights and health care, Walker is just as terrifying as the former reality-show host.
Acknowledging that Trump has dominated media attention for now, Walker?s aides believe that the governor will eventually reclaim his rightful mantle as the worst person in the race.
?Sooner or later, the Trump candidacy is going to fall apart and voters are going to be looking for another dick to vote for,? one aide said. ?Scott Walker wants to be that dick.?
LOL...stole this pic.... ;D
(http://freedomslighthouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2016possiblegopcontenders101.jpg)
I think they need about two dozen more people lol. Can anyone name them all, I think i can name a few.
Quote from: b125killer on July 13, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
I think they need about two dozen more people lol. Can anyone name them all, I think i can name a few.
Question is...?.....Does anyone want to know all their names.....LOL
While I like Ben Carson as a person, and what he stands for, to me he's not POTUS. I like Walker but his stance on immigration is wrong. Perry is just blah. Rubio has issues. Bush I loved as FL gov. but he's gone lib lite. Trump would be great for the economy. But I doubt he can work with Congress. And he's flip flopped parties too many times. The rest are all RINOs.
Mixed Nuts.
https://youtu.be/UydF6MK2E-M
Dennis
The solution has been found!
http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3 (http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 14, 2015, 07:46:14 PM
The solution has been found!
http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3 (http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/economy-greece2015.mp3)
Dennis
LOL......excellent ;D
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies
Quote from: Mugwump on July 15, 2015, 07:55:59 AM
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies
Love the satire Jon.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 15, 2015, 07:57:19 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 15, 2015, 07:55:59 AM
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?By easing tensions with Cuba and now Iran, President Obama is ?recklessly squandering America?s precious supply of enemies,? the leader of a conservative think tank said on Tuesday.
?Our adversarial relationships with Cuba and Iran took years of frostiness and saber-rattling to maintain,? Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of the Washington-based Institute for Infinite Conflict, said. ?Thanks to the President, decades of well-crafted hostility have been thrown out the window.?
According to Dorrinson, fears abound in conservative circles that the President might be ?capriciously casting about for other powder kegs to defuse? during his remaining time in office.
?If his shameful record is any guide, he?ll probably try to disarm North Korea,? Dorrinson said. ?That?s the doomsday scenario.?
Regardless of his future actions, Obama?s detente with Cuba and Iran will likely tarnish his legacy forever, Dorrinson said. ?On this President?s watch, America lost two of its most enduring foes,? he said. ?He?s going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.?
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/obama-squandering-americas-precious-supply-of-enemies
Love the satire Jon.
LOL...and Borowitz rocks it well..... ;D
Trump your cat.... ;D
http://mashable.com/2015/07/14/trump-your-cat/ (http://mashable.com/2015/07/14/trump-your-cat/)
(https://instagram.com/p/5GEFtKRkMp/media/?size=l)
(http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzA3LzE0L2JjL3RydW1wY2F0LjRhNWJjLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/cc8d8e42/a93/trump-cat.jpg)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/27f299a44be92c98d2c713d80f57f585/tumblr_nrn3qmTQyK1qav5oho1_500.jpg)
Today Donald Trump criticized Arizona Senator John McCain?s heroism during the Vietnam War. ?He was a war hero because he was captured,? Trump said at today?s Family Leadership Summit, in Ames, Iowa. ?I like people who weren?t captured.?
Trump is rising in the polls because he says outrageous things like this, which cause other Republicans to lash out at him (several GOP candidates have already criticized him for today?s McCain remark), making Trump seem even more of a rebel and outsider. It?s the strategy of a demagogue.
Should the media be reporting Trump?s bizarre antics at all?
He stirs the pot, man!
Democrats love this guy (Trump).
He is establishing the Republican's brand for them in a bad way (from a PR point of view).
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be.
Quote from: ghonk on July 19, 2015, 06:26:07 AM
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be.
+1
Quote from: ghonk on July 19, 2015, 06:26:07 AM
Trump is nothing but a big mouth arrogant prick,and anyone who would vote for him is either the same,or an ass kissing want to be.
He's just a diversion....albeit, an idiot diversion.....make that a loud mouth idiot diversion... 8)
Far too many folks in this country have a Jerry Springer mentality. If he doesn't drop out, I think you might be surprised how many votes he gets. I was certainly taken back by the number of folks that voted for Romney after he basically said the retired and hard working people of this country were just second rate citizens in his book.
It would certainly be nice if the republicans would field a viable candidate this time around.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 19, 2015, 08:56:49 AM
Far too many folks in this country have a Jerry Springer mentality. If he doesn't drop out, I think you might be surprised how many votes he gets. I was certainly taken back by the number of folks that voted for Romney after he basically said the retired and hard working people of this country were just second rate citizens in his book.
It would certainly be nice if the republicans would field a viable candidate this time around.....
Dennis
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/19/how_did_this_monster_get_created_the_decades_of_gop_lies_that_brought_us_donald_trump_republican_front_runner/ (http://www.salon.com/2015/07/19/how_did_this_monster_get_created_the_decades_of_gop_lies_that_brought_us_donald_trump_republican_front_runner/)
Nice read Jon. Yes, perhaps the republican party is so full of itself that it will never right the ship.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 19, 2015, 09:31:37 AM
Nice read Jon. Yes, perhaps the republican party is so full of itself that it will never right the ship.....
Dennis
Yes, they are, as evident by mass race for the nomination.....no cohesiveness at all.....just a 'clown car' full of egos....sad.....we really do need better choices than are being presented...by both parties.
Lots of folks are with Bernie, but while he has good ideas, and a proven public record being for the middle class....he is not Presidential material IMHO...he'll get eaten alive in that position. He and Warren are much better off in supportive roles. That is where they work the best.
Although I am strongly Democratic, I have in the past voted for various Republicans who seemed to make sense to me.
This is the situation I would prefer because there is greater choice and I like the idea of two different sides in a somewhat wavering balance with each other as the "pendulum" of who is in ascendancy goes from one side to the other. This has been destroyed by the take no prisoners, my side is always right, I don't have to consider your facts way of the media, especially Fox non-News.
Unfortunately, many of those Republicans that had more moderate views have been virtually driven away from the GOP by the extremists. Several of them are now Democrats. Jim Webb and another candidate (whose name I can't remember right now) are former Republicans running to be the Democratic candidate.
The Republicans party seems to be in a demographic trap right now.
They have a lot of older members with ideas not in tune with where the culture is going, that like to insult and discriminate against minority voters.
The older group will eventually die off, freeing them to a more rational course, but I would guess many of the minorities will remember the way they were treated for a while, until the GOP can recover its credibility with them.
This is something that is doable. In the early 60's, the situation with minorities was kind of reversed. The Republicans were fairly positive toward civil rights and southern Democrats were not. After Prez. Johnson did things like the voting rights act, and Prez. Nixon's team came up with their southern strategy, the south went from being the solid Democratic south to what is now a pretty solid Republican south. However, minority changes in the voters in the south are now changing that in places like Virginia and in a few years in other states.
Quote from: BillT on July 19, 2015, 01:38:43 PM
Although I am strongly Democratic, I have in the past voted for various Republicans who seemed to make sense to me.
This is the situation I would prefer because there is greater choice and I like the idea of two different sides in a somewhat wavering balance with each other as the "pendulum" of who is in ascendancy goes from one side to the other. This has been destroyed by the take no prisoners, my side is always right, I don't have to consider your facts way of the media, especially Fox non-News.
Unfortunately, many of those Republicans that had more moderate views have been virtually driven away from the GOP by the extremists. Several of them are now Democrats. Jim Webb and another candidate (whose name I can't remember right now) are former Republicans running to be the Democratic candidate.
The Republicans party seems to be in a demographic trap right now.
They have a lot of older members with ideas not in tune with where the culture is going, that like to insult and discriminate against minority voters.
The older group will eventually die off, freeing them to a more rational course, but I would guess many of the minorities will remember the way they were treated for a while, until the GOP can recover its credibility with them.
This is something that is doable. In the early 60's, the situation with minorities was kind of reversed. The Republicans were fairly positive toward civil rights and southern Democrats were not. After Prez. Johnson did things like the voting rights act, and Prez. Nixon's team came up with their southern strategy, the south went from being the solid Democratic south to what is now a pretty solid Republican south. However, minority changes in the voters in the south are now changing that in places like Virginia and in a few years in other states.
There are many younger minorities in the Republican party. The current contingent of possible candidates however is too far to the left for a Conservative however and they are losing their base voting block. Even me. I do like Cruz. And as I've said before I loved Jeb as Gov but would never vote for him in the primary. If he went up against Hillary I of course would have no choice but I would be holding the metaphorical nose while doing so.
The Republicans, the old school Republicans did everything they could for blacks of the time. The democrats just gave them free stuff.
Looking back through history I can't see any democrat I would have voted for POTUS save JFK. By today's standards he'd be a Republican. While everyone loves to say Reagan was always for lower taxes it was actually Kennedy's belief also. Way different from today's Democrat.
Quote
There are many younger minorities in the Republican party.
Really? Name them (groups not individuals).
(http://high-street.org/img/dtrump2015-07-19.jpg)
Here is a link to an article on Nate Silver's 538 website about Trump and his apparent campaign strategy:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6 (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6)
Quote from: BillT on July 20, 2015, 10:02:30 PM
Here is a link to an article on Nate Silver's 538 website about Trump and his apparent campaign strategy:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6 (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/#ss-6)
...good find...... ;D...and yes he is.....LOL
(http://i.imgur.com/EnpentG.jpg)
He's a secularist.
QuoteHe's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
QuoteHe's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
QuoteHe's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
QuoteHe's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
LOL......good try 'G'.... ;D.....a compliment it is..... 8)
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM
Quote
He's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Report to moderator Logged
Thus spoke the Ayatollah.
'Monsanto's Dream': Pro-GMO DARK Act Comes to Congress
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/03/25/monsantos-dream-pro-gmo-dark-act-comes-congress (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/03/25/monsantos-dream-pro-gmo-dark-act-comes-congress)
Dennis
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM
Quote
He's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Report to moderator Logged
Thus spoke the Ayatollah.
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)
Quote from: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 06:34:55 PM
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM
Quote
He's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Report to moderator Logged
Thus spoke the Ayatollah.
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)
Wait. Isn't it the Dems always blaming Bush for everything? Maybe they'd rather believe what comes from MSNBC.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 08:46:11 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 21, 2015, 06:34:55 PM
Quote from: BillT on July 21, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Quote
Quote from: BillT on Today at 08:38:26 AM
Quote
He's a secularist.
To a rationalist, this sounds like a compliment.
It's not.
Report to moderator Logged
Thus spoke the Ayatollah.
(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10433158_738760129550377_3384821449182176629_n.jpg?oh=a420f92d435a4096fc26d971c8006279&oe=561219F6)
Wait. Isn't it the Dems always blaming Bush for everything? Maybe they'd rather believe what comes from MSNBC.
No one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....
QuoteNo one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....
Neither was Fox but it was brought up.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 21, 2015, 10:14:53 PM
QuoteNo one here mentioned Bush, don't see why you brought it up as it isn't relevant to the thread....MSNBC either....
Neither was Fox but it was brought up.
It was???....all I see is a pic with the candidates a few pages back, or so....??......and not related really to anything Bush/MSNBC....so nope still not relevant.........
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 08:09:36 AM
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?
Oh good grief.....I guess it's the sign's fault then......ask them.....LOLOLOLOL....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 22, 2015, 08:55:05 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 08:09:36 AM
Jon. Look at the sign posted. Isn't the second and third words on the second line Fox News?
Oh good grief.....I guess it's the sign's fault then......ask them.....LOLOLOLOL....
Wasn't it you that posted the picture of the sign Jon?
:)
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 22, 2015, 11:00:21 AM
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.
Dennis
The facts however are not on your side Dennis.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/09/fox-news-is-the-most-trusted-national-news-channel-and-its-not-that-close/
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 11:30:51 AM
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 22, 2015, 11:00:21 AM
Fox News is the TV equivalent of the National Enquirer.
Dennis
The facts however are not on your side Dennis.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/09/fox-news-is-the-most-trusted-national-news-channel-and-its-not-that-close/
LOL...you're quoting the 'washingtonpost'.....LOL....
the following is from the Fox news site....http://www.foxnews.com/about/terms-of-use/ (http://www.foxnews.com/about/terms-of-use/)
"Terms of Use"
Description of FOX News Services and Acceptance of Terms of Use
Welcome to this Fox News Network, L.L.C. Site, which is owned and operated by Fox News Network, L.L.C. ("FOX News" or "we"). The services offered by FOX News include foxnews.com, foxbusiness.com, foxnation.com, foxnews.mobi, m.foxbusiness.com, the FOX News iPhone application, the FOX Business iPhone application, and any FOX News - branded URL, WAP site and mobile application (collectively, the "Site"), FOX News messaging services, video services, RSS feeds, podcasting services, mobile services, and any other feature, content, or applications offered from time to time by FOX News in connection with FOX News and FOX Business (collectively, the "FOX News Services"). FOX News is based in the United States and the FOX News Services are hosted in the United States.
FOX News furnishes the Site and the FOX News Services for your personal enjoyment and entertainment. By visiting the Site (whether or not you are a registered member) or using the FOX News Services, you accept and agree to be bound by this Terms of Use Agreement, including any future modifications ("Agreement"), and to abide by all applicable laws, rules and regulations ("Applicable Law"). Please read through this Agreement carefully. FOX News may modify this Agreement at any time, and each such modification will be effective upon posting on the Site. All material modifications will apply prospectively only. Your continued use of the Site or the FOX News Services following any such modification constitutes your acceptance and agreement to be bound by the Agreement as so modified. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly. If you do not agree to be bound by this Agreement and to abide by all Applicable Law, you must discontinue use of the FOX News Services immediately. You may receive a copy of this Agreement by emailing us at: foxnewsonline@foxnews.com, Subject: Terms of Use Agreement. Your access to and use of certain FOX News Services may require you to accept additional terms and conditions applicable to such FOX News Services, in addition to this Agreement, and may require you to download Software or Content (each as defined below).
Breaking: Murdoch splits empire, places Fox News in Entertainment Division
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/28/1103852/-Breaking-Murdoch-splits-empire-places-Fox-News-in-Entertainment-Division (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/28/1103852/-Breaking-Murdoch-splits-empire-places-Fox-News-in-Entertainment-Division)
No, this is not snark.
Following up on my diary from yesterday: News Corporation is being split into separate entertainment and publishing companies, in part to isolate the money making former from the phone hacking related liabilities of the latter.
The publishing company will will include News International's UK newspapers, the Sun, the Times and the Sunday Times, along with the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, Dow Jones news and financial information service, the Australian, HarperCollins book publishing operation, and News Corp's fledgling digital education business.
It takes with it the threat of $1 billion in costs due to the phone-hacking scandel, and faces possibly 500 claims in UK civil courts as well as possible criminal prosecutions for current and former staff.
The other company will contain the more profitable operations in the Murdoch Empire, including 20th Century Fox, Fox broadcast network and Fox News Channel.
Yes, that's correct. Fox News has been officially acknowledged to be entertainment.
Guardian report here.
WSJ report here.
Jon, all of the "news" channels are for the most part entertainment. Hannity, O'Reilly, and whoever is there on CNN are entertainers. Rachel Madcow is a joke and is not included here of course.
I quoted the most liberal source around to show even they acknowledge Fox is numero uno. I just saw the irony in it. Daily Kos is another liberal bastion of misinformation. But alas even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Of course many people get their news from Jon Stewart. Intelligent people however do not.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 12:33:04 PM
Jon, all of the "news" channels are for the most part entertainment. Hannity, O'Reilly, and whoever is there on CNN are entertainers. Rachel Madcow is a joke and is not included here of course.
I quoted the most liberal source around to show even they acknowledge Fox is numero uno. I just saw the irony in it. Daily Kos is another liberal bastion of misinformation. But alas even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Of course many people get their news from Jon Stewart. Intelligent people however do not.
bunk they are.......... ;D.....Fox is entertainment not news....period.... ;D...at least they admit that.. 8)
So Jon who do you go to for "news"?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on July 22, 2015, 02:33:08 PM
So Jon who do you go to for "news"?
LOL....they all suck....I watch local news for the sports/weather, and then pick around a couple different news outlets to catch the 'slant' each puts on a story.......then just try to sort it out. ....I'll check the 'Onion', 'Mother Jones', New York Times, and sometimes America.aljazeera.....amongst others....Borowitz and the 'Onion' can be clues... ;D.....satire does reveal the truth more often than not.....Fox/MSNBC/CNN etal, don't bother with any real reporting anymore(did they ever?)...altho I used to enjoy Christiane Amanpour's storys from the mid-east.....
Heck, even Danzinger's 'toons' are about spot on...... ;D
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/ (http://www.danzigercartoons.com/)
LOL...good old Fox....and CNN....at least CNN is having a low poll'r debate too.....I mean, why should we hear em all??....let the polls/news sort em out for the electorate at large.......
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/06/debates-republican-forbes-richardson/29560593/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/06/debates-republican-forbes-richardson/29560593/)
10-candidate debate: Circus, cattle call or hot mess?
Although most of the talk about the opening Republican presidential debate, exactly one month away on Aug. 6, has focused on the 10-candidate limit and who'll make the cut, there's a more basic question: What's gained from what veterans of past mass gabfests variously describe as a circus, a cattle call or a hot mess?
In big debates, sound bites shrink to nibbles, and most contestants don't even get those. "Smaller is better,'' says Bill Richardson, the former New Mexico governor and United Nations ambassador who competed with Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and others during the Democratic primaries eight years ago.
ONPOLITICS
2016 primary debate schedule
But even skeptics agree that, given the unprecedented number of candidates, a large, multi-candidate forum is like democracy itself ? the worst alternative save all the others, including no debate at all.
Fox News hosts the first of a potential 12 GOP debates, which will be held in Cleveland. (The Democrats will have six debates, with the first coming sometime in the fall.) The network plans to limit it to the 10 leading candidates (though that could increase, considering any ties) in opinion polls; CNN, sponsor of the second debate, has a similar plan, plus a debate for the second tier.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11755710_1135708519778106_6364171975828952252_n.jpg?oh=eb4cbb1d33d91ca6e49648d4413d0fce&oe=560DD39D)
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Borowitz-Trump-Scandal-690.jpg)
DES MOINES, IOWA (The Borowitz Report)?Businessman Donald Trump?s failure to insult fellow G.O.P. hopeful John Kasich a full twenty-four hours after the Ohio governor entered the 2016 Presidential race has sent Trump?s poll numbers plummeting, as many supporters expressed a sudden loss of confidence in the real-estate mogul.
Trump?s Kasich gaffe occurred at a campaign rally in Des Moines on Wednesday, when the former reality-show star admitted that he did not yet know enough about the Ohio governor to properly insult him.
?I could get up here and call Kasich a loser, because my gut tells me that?s what he is, but you?ve come to expect something more special out of me,? Trump said. ?If you bear with me, I promise you that I?ll come up with a world-class insult that we can all be proud of.?
The audience reacted with stunned silence, leading some observers to question whether Trump?s failure to insult Kasich would turn from a mere gaffe into a full-blown scandal.
Carol Foyler, a Trump supporter who attended the Des Moines event, said that she still liked Trump because of the insults he had delivered in the past, but she acknowledged that her belief in him had been shaken.
?When you?re in the White House and that phone rings, you?ve got to be ready to insult someone right away,? she said.
GOP debate format....
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?The Republican National Committee has released the format for its first 2016 Presidential debate, to be broadcast by Fox News on August 6th:
1. Question from moderator to Donald Trump;
2. Ignoring of question by Donald Trump, followed by personal attack on Jeb Bush;
3. Feeble attempt at rebuttal by Jeb Bush;
4. Interruption by Donald Trump, followed by attack on other eight candidates on stage;
5. Attempted moderation by moderator;
6. Personal attack on moderator by Donald Trump, followed by gratuitous attack on Rick Santorum;
7. Reaction shot of stone-faced Rick Santorum, excluded from debate but sitting in audience;
8. Concluding statement by Donald Trump, including attack on Fox News? ?cheap-looking? debate set;
9. Demand for apology by Mexicans, veterans, China, Bobby Jindal?s mom, and other people attacked during debate by Donald Trump;
10. Donald Trump declared winner by Donald Trump.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is why Republicans look like a bunch of clowns:
(from some political joke website I lost track of; its a bit dated but still relevant)
Things Republicans Believe
Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
"Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.
If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.
Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.
A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.
What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
...good list there, Bill...
This one is my favorite.....
Quote from: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance LOL See post #1
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 05, 2015, 01:43:20 PM
This one is my favorite.....
Quote from: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance LOL See post #1
Dennis
See post #10
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 05, 2015, 01:43:20 PM
This one is my favorite.....
Quote from: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance LOL See post #1
Dennis
See post #10
LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4 ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 05, 2015, 01:43:20 PM
This one is my favorite.....
Quote from: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance LOL See post #1
Dennis
See post #10
LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4 ;D
See post 19-3 subset b subset d subset c.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 05, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 05, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 05, 2015, 01:43:20 PM
This one is my favorite.....
Quote from: BillT on August 05, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
We have to trade with China or they will stop giving us our allowance LOL See post #1
Dennis
See post #10
LOL....freak'n post code... ;D............10-4 ;D
See post 19-3 subset b subset d subset c.
Ok...who's watching the debate??.....or are you waiting for the sounds bites afterwards on the news??.....
I've been watching the chase.....
Dennis
Watched it I did. Megyn Kelly is hot.
I watched it.
Kasich seemed to me the most normal and in a general election probably the most electable of both groups.
He and Santorum seem to be the only Republicans that really have any feeling for the non-rich.
Santorum is way too fire breathing religions for me.
I also liked Rand Paul's thing on privacy.
A lot of questions and answers were pretty shallow: right wing button pushing and applause lines.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Borowitz-Psychologists-Urge-People-With-Low-Self-Esteem-to-Watch-GOP-Debate-690.jpg)
MINNESOTA (The Borowitz Report)?Psychologists at the University of Minnesota have issued a research study recommending that people suffering from low self-esteem watch Thursday night?s nationally televised Republican debate.
The recommendation came after the psychologists spent weeks showing research subjects video clips of the debate?s potential participants and observed striking improvements in the subjects? overall morale and sense of worth.
?We interviewed the volunteers before we exposed them to the Republican candidates and afterward,? said psychologist Davis Logsdon. ?The spike in their self-esteem was off the charts.?
Of the candidates who most improved the research subjects? sense of self, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush were found to be consistently helpful, but the most marked increase in self-esteem levels came after the subjects were exposed to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.
According to the data, people who viewed Walker for approximately three minutes reported feeling better ?right away? about their intelligence, knowledge, and prospects for obtaining high-status employment that they had previously considered well beyond their reach.
?After watching Governor Walker, a substantial number of the subjects literally could not remember why they had ever felt bad about themselves,? Logsdon said.
In addition to recommending that low self-esteem-sufferers watch the debate, Logsdon is advising them to D.V.R. the entire two hours. ?You never know when you might need it again,? he said.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/psychologists-urge-people-with-low-self-esteem-to-watch-g-o-p-debate?intcid=mod-most-popular
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ This right here, I am gonna check it when I turn 18. When I turn 15 I am gonna write down the number this has on it then I am gonna do the same on my 18 birthday. I am then gonna compare it and be like" Wow....."
Quote from: big b on August 07, 2015, 10:24:56 PM
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ This right here, I am gonna check it when I turn 18. When I turn 15 I am gonna write down the number this has on it then I am gonna do the same on my 18 birthday. I am then gonna compare it and be like" Wow....."
I think you'll find that most nations would have a similar clock, just as frightening...if not more so...Greece's would spin so fast that you couldn't read it...
A very good article......worth the read...
Jon Stewart changed the way I think about TV news.
He's always been a hero of mine. As he finishes his last week at Comedy Central, I wanted to reflect on the moment he opened my eyes to the way the world really works.
The most important thing he ever taught me wasn't on "The Daily Show."
It was on another show entirely. A horrible show. A show that represented everything wrong with our country's political discourse. The show that was the precursor to all the worst things on cable news today.
It was the CNN show "Crossfire."
----more----
http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3 (http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3)
Good read, thanks Jon.
Dennis
QuoteIt was the CNN show "Crossfire."
----more----
http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3
As I recall he kinda killed that show.
Quote from: BillT on August 08, 2015, 02:29:25 PM
QuoteIt was the CNN show "Crossfire."
----more----
http://www.upworthy.com/jon-stewarts-best-moment-wasnt-on-the-daily-show-it-was-the-day-he-eviscerated-cnn?c=bl3
As I recall he kinda killed that show.
It talks about that in the article.....yes
Good read..Yes. I'm sitting here wondering why I know nothing about this fellow. I would have liked his show, I'm sure. Especially since he graduated from William & Mary College where my son did also!!
(http://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/trump.gif)
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Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office. It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 10, 2015, 10:12:25 AM
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Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office. It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.
Dennis
I agree. >:(
The only thing MOST republicans are interested in is obstruction, many are obsessed with it,and the rest just follow the crowd out of fear of their own party.
And the same people that call Obama a trader and unamerican absolutly love these assholes.
The problem with the establishment GOP is they are RINOs. Time for the Ted Cruzes to unite and stop the Hussein Express. Time for the old guard like Boehner and McConnell and Graham to go to the glue factory. Do not pass through the pasture at all. Right to the glue factory. And take Pelosi, Hussein, Reid et al with them.
Quote from: wsantia1 on August 10, 2015, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 10, 2015, 10:12:25 AM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11825211_908952339197821_2065279993013004973_n.jpg?oh=e9ec0cb64ffe2bda54c6bee3259dcef6&oe=563FBFF5)
Back in the days that I was on the town council, we had to take an oath before taking office. It's rather sad when political party gets in the way of doing what's right for the people you swore to serve.
Dennis
I agree. >:(
By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?
Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
[/quote]
By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?
Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
[/quote]
The Democrats doing something to help America,HA can't have any of that,that would mean that they were actually able to accomplish something.Better nip that in the bud before it starts,wouldn't want them making us look bad.
Use to be the dems weren't much better,but i think the GOP is running away with stupidity now.
Quote from: ghonk on August 10, 2015, 05:03:42 PM
By the same token what has the Democrat party done to help America?
Face it both parties old guard is bought by Big Business and hasn't served "We the people" in a long time.
[/quote]
The Democrats doing something to help America,HA can't have any of that,that would mean that they were actually able to accomplish something.Better nip that in the bud before it starts,wouldn't want them making us look bad.
Use to be the dems weren't much better,but i think the GOP is running away with stupidity now.
[/quote]
What exactly have they done to help America? What has been done since January 09 that has not been a colossal failure.
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.
I asked the question first.
Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.
(http://www.globereport.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/monica.jpg)
Dennis
yep.....the 'for life' part is what gets me....hell, they're not working now....why should we believe that they'll do so when out of office??..
Quote from: Mugwump on August 11, 2015, 08:29:23 AM
yep.....the 'for life' part is what gets me....hell, they're not working now....why should we believe that they'll do so when out of office??..
When they are out of office that's when they start working; for the lobbyist. Then they get paid from both sides. ??? >:(
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.
I asked the question first.
Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.
HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.
I asked the question first.
Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.
HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.
What did you think? That is part of his name. He's also known as Barry Soetoro.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: ghonk on August 11, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
What has the GOP done since 09, OTHER then making sure nothing gets done.
That's the master plan,it doesn't matter if it's good for the country or not,as long as Obama and the Dems don't get any credit for it.
They still haven't gotten over losing the election 7 YEARS AGO,middle age and older men behaving like spoiled children.
I asked the question first.
Too bad the GOP couldn't stop the ACA or all the money given to the 36 companies Hussein "invested" in that failed.
HUSSEIN,lol.
Yeah,that's what i thought.
What did you think? That is part of his name. He's also known as Barry Soetoro.
I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....
I?ve written previously about the growing fear among elites that they?ve pushed economic inequality too far. That fear is proliferating, according to a New York Times Op-Ed this weekend by former marketing conglomerate CEO Peter Georgescu. Joined by his friend Ken Langone, founder of Home Depot, Georgescu warns his fellow 1 percenters that ?[w]e are creating a caste system from which it?s almost impossible to escape.? The column raises the specter of ?major social unrest? if inequality is not addressed.
Georgescu writes:
I?m scared. The billionaire hedge funder Paul Tudor Jones is scared. My friend Ken Langone, a founder of the Home Depot, is scared. So are many other chief executives. Not of Al Qaeda, or the vicious Islamic State or some other evolving radical group from the Middle East, Africa or Asia. We are afraid where income inequality will lead.
In June, Cartier chief Johann Rupert ? worth an estimated $7.5 billion ? delivered the same message to his wealthy colleagues, telling them that the intensifying inequality and what it portends ?keeps me awake at night.? He told his fellow elites that ?We are destroying the middle classes at this stage and it will affect us.? Like Georgescu and Langone, Rupert feared unrest and asked, ?How is society going to cope with structural unemployment and the envy, hatred and the social warfare??
But while Rupert only mused about the prospects for continuing to hawk jewelry and the restfulness of his nights amid the tumult, Georgescu and Langone are being proactive. Georgescu writes that he and Langone ?have been meeting with chief executives, trying to get action on inequality,? taking advantage of Langone?s tremendous access to business leaders. ?You?d be hard-pressed to find a major CEO that wouldn?t take his call,? said a close associate of Rudy Giuliani of Langone in 2012. Georgescu and Langone are telling their patrician peers that if ?inequality is not addressed, the income gap will most likely be resolved in one of two ways: by major social unrest or through oppressive taxes.? The word seems to be getting around at the global aristocracy?s water cooler, and Georgescu writes that they ?find almost unanimous agreement on the nature of the problem and the urgent need for solutions.?
It is remarkable that Langone is partnered with Georgescu on this crusade for social justice. Langone served on the board of a leading populist philanthropy group called the New York Stock Exchange, and his deep concern for the downtrodden led him to chair that gang of do-gooders. He?s a longtime generous contributor to Republican presidential candidates who have been on the front lines of the battle to institute supply-side and neoliberal economics. ?[T]here?s nobody better than him,? said Rudy Giuliani last year about Langone?s prowess as a bundler for GOP politicians. And when he isn?t giving money and raising funds for the political friends of big business, Langone gives the invaluable gift of his careful insight, last year comparing progressives? attention to income inequality to Hitler?s political project in 1933.
The only thing Langone had right was the year: 1933. It was in that year that President Franklin Roosevelt took office at the height of the Great Depression, inequality peaked to record levels, and fears of revolt circulated among that era?s fat-cat elite. Capitalism, unreined during the 1920s, had hit another of its cyclical failures, this time its worst yet. The powerful feared revolution, and the New Deal constituted a sort of bargain made between capitalists and the people: A bit of socialism to save capitalism from itself.
That year, John Maynard Keynes issued an open letter to the newly inaugurated Roosevelt in the New York Times, whose two opening sentences of the more than 2,500-word manifesto defined the stakes and posed revolution as the price of failure of severely altering capitalism as it was practiced. Keynes was no radical. He urged the new president to work ?within the framework of the existing social system,? that is, to reform capitalism without allowing it to be abandoned or abolished.
It was later revealed that when in 1938 a year-long recession threatened the gains made against the Depression, as conservative Democratic legislators urged severe cuts in public works and farm aid, Roosevelt feared revolution. ?The president remarked that this would mean calling out the troops to preserve order,? wrote a cabinet member in his diary. ?It might even mean a revolution, or an attempted revolution.?
Georgescu and Langone?s mission perhaps finds its best Depression-era analog in Joseph Kennedy, the millionaire father of the eventual president John F. Kennedy, who said of the Depression that ?in those days I felt and said I would be willing to part with half of what I had if I could be sure of keeping, under law and order, the other half.? Kennedy, like many (but hardly all) of his elite colleagues, knew that capitalism had to be bridled if it was to survive. ?I knew that big drastic changes had to be made in our economic system,? he later told Joe McCarthy. ?I wanted him in the White House for my own security.?
Langone and Georgescu ? like Kennedy, Roosevelt and Keynes ? are urging another radical reformation of capitalism so that truly radical change doesn?t come. But they make serious mistakes in their judgment and prescription. They warn of ?punitive,? ?oppressive? levels of taxation ? an 80 percent upper marginal rate with a low upper-bracket threshold ? as a potentiality if their upper class doesn?t self-correct. But those levels of taxation wouldn?t be levied to punish or oppress; it would be to redistribute their collected wealth to the rest of us. Sharing isn?t being punished.
Second, they propose that the change has to come from the capitalists themselves, that some sort of agreement would be reached to willfully raise wages significantly in the absence of governmental mandate. This seems to ignore fundamental laws of competition. Even if some degree of consensus was reached, any dissenters would gain a fantastic advantage over their competitors in the form of profit levels far exceeding those of their rivals. It would be asking corporations to enter the ring with one arm tied behind their back and face off against unrestrained competitors.
They seem to know this and concede that ?the most obvious choice is our government? to guide and enforce the change. Every major gain against the greed that animates capitalism has been implemented by mandate: the minimum wage, the right to collectively bargain, the 40-hour work week, the weekend, and a host of other rules of the road that marked the post-war economic and civil peace.
?But the current Congress has been paralyzed,? they acknowledge.
And why is it paralyzed? Has President Obama not faced resistance to his efforts to restore a modicum of equality by politicians bought by the very class to whom Georgescu and Langone make their appeal? They might try not shoveling hundreds of millions of dollars into the coffers of ?pro-business? politicians who dutifully defy virtually any tax increase, regulation, and pro-union effort. Bernie Sanders forbids big-dollar donations of the sort sent to pro-business politicians of both parties, but they might consider, as I argued previously, working to elect him as a bulwark against the upheaval they fear. Sanders is merely proposing that we return to the bargain achieved in the 1930s and post-war years. I?m sure they?d scoff at the idea, but it?s not crazy. What?s crazy is to believe that capitalism can be saved by the capitalists themselves, like all lions agreeing to hunt without claws.
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/11/why_conservatives_billionaires_have_started_talking_like_bernie_sanders_we_are_creating_a_caste_system_from_which_its_almost_impossible_to_escape/
I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....
[/quote]
Like Germany? That has been building coal fired plants?
Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 12:04:27 PM
I hope he keeps trying.......we need to catch up with other countries that are far ahead of us in alternative energy usage.....
Like Germany? That has been building coal fired plants?
Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?
[/quote]
Germany's use of solar panels is fantastic....they're building them better all the time.........the coal plants being built are much more carbon friendly, and a band-aid at best...you know that too.......Germany will be even more proficient in the future ....it'll free them from using Putin's pipeline, a very good thing....the European communities are now beginning to follow Germany's lead in getting past oil dependance...... ;D...face it, the USA is lagging behind because of the constant misinformation being fed us by the news/politicians......we need this....
Where will it go when Germany stops it's solar subsidies in 2018?They will be renewed....you can bet on it...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2013/09/19/how-europes-economy-is-being-devastated-by-global-warming-orthodoxy/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/24/europes-green-energy-industry-faces-collapse-as-subsidies-are-cut/
http://www.theenergycollective.com/willem-post/338781/high-renewable-energy-costs-damage-germanys-economy
https://www.aei.org/publication/the-myth-of-green-energy-jobs-the-european-experience/
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/02/05/germany-joins-california-in-destroying-jobs-with-renewables/
Down here I have Duke Energy. We pay the highest rates for power in the area and probably in the southeast. It goes up much more and I doubt I could afford it.
We get to pay for the Crystal River Nuke plant they screwed up and for the Nuke plant that will never be built.
In truth I have been thinking of going solar more and more. But not like most here would. I wan to be totally off the grid. Of course if I were to actually do that the Gestapo and SS would be knocking down my door.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 02:31:54 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2013/09/19/how-europes-economy-is-being-devastated-by-global-warming-orthodoxy/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/24/europes-green-energy-industry-faces-collapse-as-subsidies-are-cut/
http://www.theenergycollective.com/willem-post/338781/high-renewable-energy-costs-damage-germanys-economy
https://www.aei.org/publication/the-myth-of-green-energy-jobs-the-european-experience/
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/02/05/germany-joins-california-in-destroying-jobs-with-renewables/
Down here I have Duke Energy. We pay the highest rates for power in the area and probably in the southeast. It goes up much more and I doubt I could afford it.
We get to pay for the Crystal River Nuke plant they screwed up and for the Nuke plant that will never be built.
In truth I have been thinking of going solar more and more. But not like most here would. I wan to be totally off the grid. Of course if I were to actually do that the Gestapo and SS would be knocking down my door.
..don't blame you...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany)
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/ (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/)
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-solar-energy-output-surpasses-nuclear-generation-in-july (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-solar-energy-output-surpasses-nuclear-generation-in-july)
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-energy-transition-explained-in-6-charts (http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-energy-transition-explained-in-6-charts)
http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/07/germany-solar-pv-report-must-read-energy-reporter/ (http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/07/germany-solar-pv-report-must-read-energy-reporter/)
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/15/germany-reaches-nearly-75-renewable-power-use-sunday/ (http://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/15/germany-reaches-nearly-75-renewable-power-use-sunday/)
From your first link:
Since the end of the boom period, national PV market has since declined significantly, due to the amendments in the German Renewable Energy Act (EEG) that reduced feed-in tariffs and set constraints on utility-scaled installations, limiting their size to no more than 10 MW.[22]
And from the second:
Subsidies aimed at stimulating the growth of renewables have driven up consumer energy prices by 12.5% in 2013.[54] To date, German consumers have absorbed the costs of the Energiewende, but the IEA says the debate over the social and economic impacts of the new approach has become more prominent as the share of renewable energy has continued to grow alongside rising electricity prices.
Think progress does neither. Left wingnuts.
About the same with greentech.
But of course alternative sources will at some point overtake nuclear. Almost any idiot can grasp that if you are tearing down nukes and buildingalternative at some point it must overtake it. Captain Obvious there
From liberal Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-05-30/germany-becomes-net-power-importer-from-france-after-atomic-halt
.France, which relies on nuclear plants for about three-quarters of its power needs, exported a net 509 gigawatt hours to Germany last month compared with net imports of 618 gigawatts during the same month last year, RTE said. In the most recent month, Germany joined Belgium, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the U.K. in relying on France for more power imports than exports, the data indicates.
http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/456961/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar
And if you want to think that half of Germany's electricity comes from something green you will be disappointed. 46% of generation comes from coal. And just over half of coal powered electricity in Germany comes from burning lignite, perhaps the most polluting way to generate electricity on the planet.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 11, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
From your first link:
Since the end of the boom period, national PV market has since declined significantly, due to the amendments in the German Renewable Energy Act (EEG) that reduced feed-in tariffs and set constraints on utility-scaled installations, limiting their size to no more than 10 MW.[22]
And from the second:
Subsidies aimed at stimulating the growth of renewables have driven up consumer energy prices by 12.5% in 2013.[54] To date, German consumers have absorbed the costs of the Energiewende, but the IEA says the debate over the social and economic impacts of the new approach has become more prominent as the share of renewable energy has continued to grow alongside rising electricity prices.
Think progress does neither. Left wingnuts.
About the same with greentech.
But of course alternative sources will at some point overtake nuclear. Almost any idiot can grasp that if you are tearing down nukes and buildingalternative at some point it must overtake it. Captain Obvious there
From liberal Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-05-30/germany-becomes-net-power-importer-from-france-after-atomic-halt
.France, which relies on nuclear plants for about three-quarters of its power needs, exported a net 509 gigawatt hours to Germany last month compared with net imports of 618 gigawatts during the same month last year, RTE said. In the most recent month, Germany joined Belgium, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the U.K. in relying on France for more power imports than exports, the data indicates.
http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/456961/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar
And if you want to think that half of Germany's electricity comes from something green you will be disappointed. 46% of generation comes from coal. And just over half of coal powered electricity in Germany comes from burning lignite, perhaps the most polluting way to generate electricity on the planet.
They are trying and succeeding in many areas...which we should be doing too..... you can't just keep 'cherry picking' their problems, and failures, to support not doing it at all. Our disruptive politicians blast everything that comes up....but never back it up with a better solution. The journey starts with the first step....not instant gratification.
Jon, I do support doing it. I support it whole heartily. Like I said I am still pondering doing my own house. But it needs to come from the private sector not the government. I've figured it out though and the numbers don't really work if there are no government subsidies. By that I mean you the taxpayer paying to electrify my house. If you figure the actual cost of the panels, storage batteries, etc. it pays for itself about 2 years after it has reached its useful life. (Damn I almost put the apostrophe in that)
We already have evidence of the effectiveness of government helping out the solar companies. Solyndra ring a bell?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 07:52:56 AM
Jon, I do support doing it. I support it whole heartily. Like I said I am still pondering doing my own house. But it needs to come from the private sector not the government. I've figured it out though and the numbers don't really work if there are no government subsidies. By that I mean you the taxpayer paying to electrify my house. If you figure the actual cost of the panels, storage batteries, etc. it pays for itself about 2 years after it has reached its useful life. (Damn I almost put the apostrophe in that)
We already have evidence of the effectiveness of government helping out the solar companies. Solyndra ring a bell?
I believe they saw it as a chance to jump start the program...it failed miserably with Solyndra too....win some, lose some...private industry wasn't getting into it as quickly as expected....and yes, it needs to be the private sector getting more involved.....
Private industry will get involved when it's feasible and profitable. There are some companies out there that you don't hear much about that do see the value in the future. They are pouring money into the R&D.
One problem is if you do go off grid the Gestapo and SS will hunt you down.
http://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/
http://offgridsurvival.com/livingoffthegridcrime/comment-page-2/
As for win some lose some our CIC has lost 36 out of 36. And that doesn't take into account the money we lost with GM and Tesla.
From your link....http://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/
Living off the grid is illegal in Cape Coral, Florida, according to a court ruling Thursday.
Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin ruled that the city?s codes allow Robin Speronis to live without utility power but she is still required to hook her home to the city?s water system. Her alternative source of power must be approved by the city, Eskin said.
As previously reported in Off The Grid News, Speronis has been fighting the city of Cape Coral since November when a code enforcement officer tried to evict her from her home for living without utilities. The city contends that Speronis violated the International Property Maintenance Code by relying on rain water instead of the city water system and solar panels instead of the electric grid.
?It was a mental fistfight,? Speronis? attorney Todd Allen said of Eskin?s review of his clients? case. ?There?s an inherent conflict in the code.?
Part of the conflict: She must hook up to the water system, although officials acknowledge she does not have to use it.
...
So it is doable but city codes haven't caught up with technology that's all. It will take time for all the advances to settle in and be accepted, for sure. I believe living rural tho...has it advantages.
If we'd had solar a few years back, where we lived, we could have used our well. Then we'd been living the good life....LOL
I'm wondering if creative elec panel wiring ,to say, only bedrooms that use very little energy might work....then using solar for the expensive appliance areas like the kitchen, laundry room, living room, etc to reduce costs....and be in compliance.
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
Quote from: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???
Quote from: wsantia1 on August 12, 2015, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???
That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 12:40:12 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on August 12, 2015, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???
That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.
My gas and water heater are included in that price. The gas and electric are one.
Here is a hilarious Japanese animation with caracturized politicians at the Republican debate:
http://us.tomonews.net/trump-takes-first-gop-debate-as-nothing-sticks-to-teflon-don-260671801819136?utm_source=Facebook+NMAtv&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=080715+Trump+wins+GOP (http://us.tomonews.net/trump-takes-first-gop-debate-as-nothing-sticks-to-teflon-don-260671801819136?utm_source=Facebook+NMAtv&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=080715+Trump+wins+GOP)
That was good....LOL
Why we don't get involved..... He is speaking of Canada, but it is applicable here as well.
https://youtu.be/5Knz100ldLM
Dennis
http://time.com/money/3941620/donald-trump-pinatas/
LOL....I forgot about those .........thanks, Liz... 8)
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 12:40:12 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on August 12, 2015, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 12, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I've got well and septic. If I could afford solar I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I am starting my aquaponics project as soon as I can. Damn power bill is almost $300 last month.
Our bill is high too....especially summer time with the 'air' running....
I just paid $339. Ouch. Hopefully it was mostly the air. ???
That's just the electric part. I also have propane delivered for the water heater and stove every other month. That varies between $150-250 depending.
The Future of EnergyIn the opening moments of the inspiring new documentary titled The Future of Energy, we're provided a guided tour through Greensburg, Kansas, a seemingly typical Midwestern town with a population of just under a thousand. In 2007, a fierce tornado struck the town and annihilated the vast majority of its buildings and infrastructure. Undaunted, the community decided to rebuild by harnessing the same power that was once the cause of its destruction: wind. Today, Greensburg is entirely operated on 100% renewable wind energy. Their shining example sets the stage for the remainder of the film, which urges the necessity for similar progressive actions in every city across the globe.
There are few issues more pressing in our modern society than that of energy. Currently, the majority of the world's energy is produced through the burning of fossil fuels, a process which has proven detrimental to the health and safety of our planet and all of its inhabitants. In addition to the ramifications related to climate change, our unsustainable energy habits place great burdens upon the world's economies, which contribute to the financial instability of families throughout the world.
The answer, according to the myriad of experts represented in the film, is the powerful clean energy trio of wind, water and solar. According to researchers, renewable energies could power the entire globe by the year 2050. The technologies are right at our fingertips. All we seem to lack is the social and political willpower to make widespread renewable energies our reality.
Energy independence is only possible when communities break away from a system which continues to rely upon outdated and pollution-inducing technologies. The Future of Energy take us on a journey to discover how this has been made possible in regions throughout the United States, as citizens have joined together to outfit their homes and businesses with solar panels and a multitude of additional clean energy conductors. With infectious enthusiasm, The Future of Energy shines a spotlight on the many everyday figures that stand at the forefront of the clean energy revolution, and shows us that the capacity for positive change in the world begins with the individual.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/future-energy/ (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/future-energy/)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/2132b055209177d036b1e92a6c161d92/tumblr_nt66hstxL41rkallao1_1280.jpg)
This is a good read...................thoughts? anyone??
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-stopped-being-funny-20150821 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-trump-just-stopped-being-funny-20150821)
Looking at where this comes from it's just liberal BS. Pretty much what got us into this mess in the first place.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Looking at where this comes from it's just liberal BS. Pretty much what got us into this mess in the first place.
Nothing to do with being liberal............and worth your time, I'm sure.....
I read the article Jon before I formed an opinion. Unfortunately RS kept to its roots.
QuoteTrump is probably too dumb to realize it, or maybe he isn't, but he doesn't need to win anything to become the most dangerous person in America. He can do plenty of damage just by encouraging people to be as uninhibited in their stupidity as he is.
Remarks such as this prove it. So pretty much if you go along with Trump you're stupid. Like we've done so great lately?
While I doubt I would vote for Trump in a primary he is bringing to the forefront the things that need to be said. If he did win the primary of course I would vote for him. What we need in the Oval Office is in fact a person that truly loves this country, realizes that we are an exceptional country, and is a businessman to run the business we call "The US of A".
If you truly get down to brass tacks what does the president (well every POTUS sans 44) really do? They make deals. Same as a business. Deals that benefit both parties most of the time but if it comes to it a deal that only benefits your business. We need someone that will in fact look out for us. Been a while like over 6 years since we have seen that.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:19:30 PM
I read the article Jon before I formed an opinion. Unfortunately RS kept to its roots.
QuoteTrump is probably too dumb to realize it, or maybe he isn't, but he doesn't need to win anything to become the most dangerous person in America. He can do plenty of damage just by encouraging people to be as uninhibited in their stupidity as he is.
Remarks such as this prove it. So pretty much if you go along with Trump you're stupid. Like we've done so great lately?
While I doubt I would vote for Trump in a primary he is bringing to the forefront the things that need to be said. If he did win the primary of course I would vote for him. What we need in the Oval Office is in fact a person that truly loves this country, realizes that we are an exceptional country, and is a businessman to run the business we call "The US of A".
If you truly get down to brass tacks what does the president (well every POTUS sans 44) really do? They make deals. Same as a business. Deals that benefit both parties most of the time but if it comes to it a deal that only benefits your business. We need someone that will in fact look out for us. Been a while like over 6 years since we have seen that.
I would have thought that you'd come away with more than that......like him, or not....many of his remarks are inflammatory, and unsettling. Especially in the light of recent violence attributed to one of them. ....
Which one Jon?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:27:05 PM
Which one Jon?
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/20/a-beating-in-boston-said-to-be-inspired-by-donald-trumps-immigrant-comments/?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/20/a-beating-in-boston-said-to-be-inspired-by-donald-trumps-immigrant-comments/?_r=0)
So then Hussein is responsible for Katie's death since he allows the illegals in without repercussion and allows sanctuary cities.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:47:40 PM
So then Hussein is responsible for Katie's death since he allows the illegals in without repercussion and allows sanctuary cities.
I should have known your response......'Obama bad'...'bad Obama'...'thanks Obama'....
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.
How nice of you to leave Congress out of it all......I figured that you were a little more open minded than just being in lock step with Fox entertainment, my bad.
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions. I also did the research as to why we are in the situation we are vis-a-vis the economy and where it started. I have seen very few who have done any research and just go on soundbites from lame stream media.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 03:10:19 PM
I could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions. I also did the research as to why we are in the situation we are vis-a-vis the economy and where it started. I have seen very few who have done any research and just go on soundbites from lame stream media.
(http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2015/04/ObamasNumbersApril2.png)
Summary
Highlights from our latest update of the statistical record of President Obama?s time in office:
Under Obama, the economy has added 7.2 million jobs, and the unemployment rate is now lower than the historical median.
The number of job openings is up to its highest point in 14 years, and the number of long-term jobless has now dropped below where it was when Obama took office.
Real weekly earnings are up 3 percent. But the number of persons receiving food stamps remains stubbornly high.
The administration says 16 million have gained health insurance as a result of the Affordable Care Act. But the National Center for Health Statistics estimates that 37 million others still lacked coverage last year.
The US increased its domestic crude oil production last year by more than it has in over 100 years. The U.S. now relies less on imported oil than it has since the Nixon administration.
The clock has run out on Obama?s promise to double U.S. exports in 5 years. They went up only 39 percent.
...more...
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/)
QuoteI could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.
You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.
More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!
I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.
Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!
Trump's biggest problem is that both the Republicans & the Democrats are fearful that he is gaining traction. The sad part is, he is gain traction simply because of their past incompetence.
I don't agree with much of what he says, but I could say the same for any of the other candidates. Rather than blowing smoke, what you see is what you get with Donald, and I'm sure lots of folks find that a refreshing change.....
It's all a mute point anyway. The Republican party will never give Donald the nomination. He's not a party following lackey. Ask John McCain how easy it is to get the nomination when you rock the boat and talk about reform.
Dennis
Biden/Warren..... 8)
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/22/politics/joe-biden-washington-meetings/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/22/politics/joe-biden-washington-meetings/)
Jon, factcheck, like politifact are left of center. Politifact is in fact owned by The St. Pete Times aka Pravda West here.
Since you like liberal "facts" here's one by the CEO of Gallup and he is a die hard liberal
http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/180431/american-entrepreneurship-dead-alive.aspx
Quote from: BillT on August 22, 2015, 03:50:57 PM
QuoteI could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.
You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.
More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!
I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.
Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!
The problem is if it's not from the main stream media liberals don't believe it. I could tell you you spelled seeking incorrectly but if a liberal says it's right you will believe it. I can't fight that.
My last post refuting Jon's chart about business start ups is by a liberal. Do you believe him?
facts or semantics??....what he said versus what he said......sorry that's not working as an argument....getting back to the selective finger pointing, how about a chart on Congress too......a favorable review doesn't exist, does it?....but then that's Obama's fault too...right?....geez Louise.....no 'strawman' arguments, ok?.... w!w
Quote from: BillT on August 22, 2015, 03:50:57 PM
QuoteI could be one of those that get their info from Comedy Central Jon. No. I am not in lock step with any one. I look at information and come to my own conclusions.
You would be a lot better informed if you had watch Comedy Central. Their viewers actually aware of facts instead of blathered out knowingly incorrect opinions, in service to large corporate entities, who are stealing our democracy and peoples money by convincing naive idiots (who are too stupid to know they are working against their own interests) to do their bidding.
More tax cuts for millionaires (Go Donald)!!
More subsidies for some of the biggest most powerful businesses in the country (oil companies) (Go Koch Bros.)!!!
I can not remember one comment you have made having to do with politics that displays any indocationof research independent of Fox Psuedo-news and their lame ass corporate mouthpiece friends.
Please share with us something showing a seaking for information from a objective source!
How do we give oil companies subsidies? (Do you know what a subsidy is? (Editorial "you" is meant here))
How much of our total tax revenue is paid for by the rich? Do you know?
The IRS took in record amounts in taxes 2014. Where did the money go?
Do you know how much money the Koch Bros have given?
QuoteThe Koch family foundations are a related group of non-profit organizations that began with the establishment of the Fred and Mary Koch Foundation in 1953, and now includes the Charles Koch Foundation, the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation and the Koch Cultural Trust. The organizations collectively have a stated goal of "advancing liberty and freedom" through the support of various causes which "further social progress and sustainable prosperity."[11] In addition to the direct action of the non-profits, the groups have also contributed financially to other philanthropic organizations in the fields of research, public well-being, arts, and education, including contributions to scholarship programs, university support, and loan assistance through organizations like the United Negro College Fund.[12]
https://youtu.be/0hmfBtk0WaE
Dennis
Quote from: Mugwump on August 22, 2015, 08:45:02 PM
facts or semantics??....what he said versus what he said......sorry that's not working as an argument....getting back to the selective finger pointing, how about a chart on Congress too......a favorable review doesn't exist, does it?....but then that's Obama's fault too...right?....geez Louise.....no 'strawman' arguments, ok?.... w!w
Jon with few exceptions the "Republicans" in congress are an abysmal failure to Conservative values. I hate that here I have to register as a "Republican" The ones calling themselves republicans are a damn disgrace and are no better than the liberals anymore.
Any way you want to look at it whether dumbass liberal or turd republican they are pretty much bought. We the people don't stand a chance anymore.
If I haven't stated my beliefs before let me state them now, as a Fiscal Conservative in no particular order.
1. We take care of our veterans
2. We keep the strongest army in the world.
3. We take care of our elderly.
4. We take care of those truly disabled.
5. Eliminate welfare
6. Shrink the government drastically.
7. Make it conducive for business to survive, and thrive here.
8. Be excellent stewards of taxpayer moneys.
9. We respect our allies and make our enemies fear us again.
10. Secure our borders.
11. Adhere to the US Constitution.
There are more but these are the basics.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1957
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/10/new-mckinsey-survey-74-of-obamacare-sign-ups-were-previously-insured/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/02/low-labour-force-participation-is-because-long-term-unemployment-has-risen/
If only we can shrink the labor force another 50 million we can get the UE rate down to 3%
As for jobs created they do not separate full time from part time. So getting rid of a full time position of 40 hours and hiring 4 people at 10 hours yields a net increase of three jobs. What I want to start seeing is paid man hours not positions filled.
QuoteIf I haven't stated my beliefs before let me state them now, as a Fiscal Conservative in no particular order.
1. We take care of our veterans
2. We keep the strongest army in the world.
3. We take care of our elderly.
4. We take care of those truly disabled.
5. Eliminate welfare
6. Shrink the government drastically.
7. Make it conducive for business to survive, and thrive here.
8. Be excellent stewards of taxpayer moneys.
9. We respect our allies and make our enemies fear us again.
10. Secure our borders.
11. Adhere to the US Constitution.
These have nothing to do with fiscal policy:
1
2
3
4
5
7
9
10
11
Since you
Quotelook at information and come to my own conclusions
, please explain how you came up with that list and how it relates to fiscal policy.
QuoteI could tell you you spelled seeking incorrectly but if a liberal says it's right you will believe it.
You just recently posted something about misspelling something yourself and how that's not problem, but if someone else does?????
Nice consistency!
You are arrogant and close minded on subjects like politics.
All you do is to call any people, groups, or organizations that you disagree with names to dismiss their arguments rather than clearly layng out your thoughts (rather than your spewing your emotions), rarely doing any real comparing of specific commonly accepted facts.
There is just no reason to try to discuss things with you.
You are incapable of changing your mind and your weak arguments are unlikely to convince anyone.
Another thing you seem to do a lot is go off on negatives about this or that using resulting in whoever it is that you are pissed off about now is in some way a bad person so nothing they say is acceptable.
This can result in the elimination of everything (since you are so consistently negative), resulting in no path forward. Great for future planning!
Personally, I like to pick out what I perceive as good things from whatever source they may arise from, combine them together in some way that might make sense, and try to check out how that might work out.
This by the way is the source of Obamacare (which could be better, but is better than the currently politically feasible alternatives).
What name(s) are you going to call me now?
Bill, I don't intend to call you anything except a friend. This thread is politics. I'd like to think we have more in common than this argument. Like fish. Maybe fishing too.
I also think we can agree neither one of us would ever vote for Jeb.
I can pretty much say that from the little I know of the folks here (face it except for those that have personally met we really don't know each other at all) if anyone here ever needed something I could help with I surely would. I tend to think though that I am no different than anyone else here.
We sure agree on Jeb....and i can agree, or relate, to many things on your list too. There are many cases where the party lines are blurred, and that's why so many folks have problems identifying with one or the other most times. The exception might be race relations, with immigration included in there, as well as our President.
Discussing politics breeds animosities like rabbits. Going back to the Civil War it even split families. This thread was made separate to enable discussion in a more confined area, rather than sprinkled throughout the boards. My initial hope was to have a place for folks to vent on the subject in lively discussion, and in jest at the absurdities in the political arena........and not to make it personal....so rant..rave..criticize..laugh..chuckle...then leave it here and move on back to the fish we all love and enjoy....remembering that the world would be a boring place if we were all made from the same mold.
Quote from: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 06:49:01 AM
Discussing politics breeds animosities like rabbits. Going back to the Civil War it even split families. This thread was made separate to enable discussion in a more confined area, rather than sprinkled throughout the boards. My initial hope was to have a place for folks to vent on the subject in lively discussion, and in jest at the absurdities in the political arena........and not to make it personal....so rant..rave..criticize..laugh..chuckle...then leave it here and move on back to the fish we all love and enjoy....remembering that the world would be a boring place if we were all made from the same mold.
|^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11891172_740509572744367_1110929238145476816_n.jpg?oh=12fb58bbc5d5c67b4a3336f4d7b937dc&oe=566F7019)
Dennis
Pretty much Dennis.....but then again remember it's the idiots that get the 'news' coverage and exposure whether a candidate, or a supporter.....the sane folks are still around.....locked and loaded and with dry ammo... |^|
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.
And don't forget he's a UNDER COVER MUSLIM,one of his parents was black, and he's likely the antichrist too.
Quote from: ghonk on August 23, 2015, 10:09:44 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 22, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
I really can't recall anything he's done that has helped the American situation is all. And he doesn't love this country and all that it is.
And don't forget he's a UNDER COVER MUSLIM,one of his parents was black, and he's likely the antichrist too.
...LOL.....sad that our President does not get any respect anymore.....very sad....
QuoteBill, I don't intend to call you anything except a friend. This thread is politics. I'd like to think we have more in common than this argument. Like fish. Maybe fishing too.
I also think we can agree neither one of us would ever vote for Jeb.
I can pretty much say that from the little I know of the folks here (face it except for those that have personally met we really don't know each other at all) if anyone here ever needed something I could help with I surely would. I tend to think though that I am no different than anyone else here.
G:
In many ways I think you are mostly likely an OK guy.
However, when anything touches upon your political and religious beliefs, you display intolerance and close mindedness.
On those subjects, your have a strong tendency to be completely dismissive of other views and facts based upon what seem to me to be surrilious grounds (making or spreading scandalous claims about someone with the intention of damaging their reputation), rather than any rational discussion of pros and cons of a particular idea.
To me, this behavior seems troll-like. Calling names, disparaging whole groups of people (for reasons you don't make clear- just hate?). And generally trashing ongoing discussions.
...well, so much for letting it go, I guess...???
Meanwhile, how about Biden....I like Joe...he calls em like he sees them, even with an occasional foot in the mouth by doing so.... |^|
He's met with Elizabeth Warren now.....could they be a viable team??....I think so....unless Hillary can plug the dike ..??
Quote from: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 07:34:50 PM
...well, so much for letting it go, I guess...???
Meanwhile, how about Biden....I like Joe...he calls em like he sees them, even with an occasional foot in the mouth by doing so.... |^|
He's met with Elizabeth Warren now.....could they be a viable team??....I think so....unless Hillary can plug the dike ..??
I like Joe too. Foot in mouth is not hurting Trump so far. ::)
Politics.....
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Albert_Maignan_-_La_muse_verte.jpg)
Other than she keeps saying she is not interested in running for president, I think Elisabeth Warren would be the best candidate.
Better as a veep than nothing though.
Quote from: BillT on August 23, 2015, 10:28:26 PM
Other than she keeps saying she is not interested in running for president, I think Elisabeth Warren would be the best candidate.
Better as a veep than nothing though.
Who knows ??...he might have been looking for just her backing??
Quote from: Mugwump on August 23, 2015, 06:48:18 AM
We sure agree on Jeb....and i can agree, or relate, to many things on your list too. There are many cases where the party lines are blurred, and that's why so many folks have problems identifying with one or the other most times. The exception might be race relations, with immigration included in there, as well as our President.
By today's definition of the parties JFK would be a republican. He understood how lowering taxes increased government revenue.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11933493_1597763543821087_1846569990221812894_n.jpg?oh=29cc53d712a1d3e4f0ad18f33ac59d05&oe=567F3E2A)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 24, 2015, 11:24:28 AM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11933493_1597763543821087_1846569990221812894_n.jpg?oh=29cc53d712a1d3e4f0ad18f33ac59d05&oe=567F3E2A)
Dennis
"we're".....LOL....reminds me of the 'morans' sign.....LOL....
Yet another political campaign:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg)
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150812234323-carter-for-cancer-survivor-cartoon-large-169.jpg)
(Could not get the picture to post w/o using photobucket)??
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/danzcolorplus6450.jpg)
(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UT2KBp-0sl4%2FUpITJfaTWEI%2FAAAAAAAAQ0Y%2F9OZcVl0CqyE%2Fs1600%2Fcognitivedissonance20.jpg&sp=e099835b80919968ba0a58728ef541af)
Only problem Jon is that the presidency has had as many democrats as republicans since 1961.
The only real variance is that both houses have been controlled by the democrats for the longest period of time.
From 1955 until 1981 democrats controlled both houses.
1981 they still held the house but lost the senate for 3 terms.
They got both back in 87 but lost both in 96 (and democrats think we had a good economy so I guess you can thank your favorite democrat Newt)
We did pretty well until 9-11. But alas we had never experienced such a happening on US soil.
Still the economy did come back. And so did the democrats taking over both houses in 07.
And in 2008 they had full control of both houses.
So for the most of the time it's we've been controlled by democrats but it's all the republican's fault.
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......
Quote from: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......
Bingo. Had to do with your head up the elephant's ass nothing more.
As I was typing it Jon I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt what you would say. I was right. As usual.
Couldn't be the party that was in power the longest. That would be impossible. (that is sarcasm)
So if we have a republican president and a democrat house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and republican house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and a veto proof house in favor of the democrats and the poo poo hits the fan it is because of the republicans.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on August 28, 2015, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
Yes, you're right.....but in the few short years the Republicans had a chance at it...they screwed things up....'supply side economics' for one...but sadly it was enough to do it..
Quote from: BillT on August 28, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
That's a big swath of time.
You are ranting about things but it is not clear what specifically you are complaining about (with respect to the state of the country).
If you were to say that some particular aspect of the economy is bothering me or some aspect of foreign policy, etc. when making these arguments, you might increase understanding of others in what you are arguing about.
I think it was more a statement rather than an argument...??....and a valid observation too....however, I think he incorrectly interpreted that the blame belonged with the 'Dem's'......
Bingo. Had to do with your head up the elephant's ass nothing more.
As I was typing it Jon I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt what you would say. I was right. As usual.
Couldn't be the party that was in power the longest. That would be impossible. (that is sarcasm)
So if we have a republican president and a democrat house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and republican house and things are running swimmingly it is because of the democrat. If we have a democrat president and a veto proof house in favor of the democrats and the poo poo hits the fan it is because of the republicans.
...and I figured that too would be your retort....however, the Republicans, now controlling the House, now have an all time low approval rating......and it's because they are obstructionists.....they have not only blocked everything to come before them ( and have even wasted time by calling for the 75 millionth time a vote to repeal the ACA, again and again)....but have not presented a legit plan for rebuilding infrastructure here at home, along with many other things that they've promised to do......yes, Dem's are involved too....but the Repub's ran on tickets for improving things...and we get squat...LOL...even today, cry baby Boehner called a Cruz a jackass....LOL.....now that's leadership, huh?.....
Trust me none of us are happy with the "republicans" like Jackass Boehner, McCain, McConnell, etc. They are no better than Reid or Pelosi.
We want them to stop the Obama Express before it's too late. Yet all they do is punch their tickets. Disgusting.
So Republicans and jackasses, but the are not a problem because of Democrats????????
I am confused about the point here.
Some of us aren't are happy with some politicians.
The irony of it all is that the whole Congress are useless jackasses, but we just keep electing them over and over, year after year...but expect different results each time....shame on us...
I'm pretty happy with my representative (DeFazio) and senators (Wyden and Merkley).
Quote from: Mugwump on August 28, 2015, 07:45:04 PM
The irony of it all is that the whole Congress are useless jackasses, but we just keep electing them over and over, year after year...but expect different results each time....shame on us...
About sums it up and we pretty much agree. I will take exception with the last part though.
I don't think it's us as voters it's more that good people don't want to get torn apart and shredded don't run. And the few good ones that do get elected manage to get caught up in the money and it becomes a drug.
There are a still a few decent ones in office though. On both sides of the aisle.
What ever you think of Trump at least he's not a politician. And he's got his own money so it would be tough to buy him. And he is not afraid to speak his mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiGsHCpBGg4
Ya gotta love good old Ronnie Regan. So many great quotes..... "People keep looking to government for the answer, and governemts the problem"
That sums it up perfectly. If you're looking for any of these bozos to save us, you are going to be sadly disappointed. We are still a governemnt by the people, the people just don't do their part. We have to fix it. They are not going to. 2c2
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 29, 2015, 09:36:39 AM
Ya gotta love good old Ronnie Regan. So many great quotes..... "People keep looking to government for the answer, and governemts the problem"
That sums it up perfectly. If you're looking for any of these bozos to save us, you are going to be sadly disappointed. We are still a governemnt by the people, the people just don't do their part. We have to fix it. They are not going to. 2c2
Dennis
Yup, that's pretty much it Dennis.... |^|
Just ran across this.....someone asked Trump for his favorite Bible quote..
.............
The #TrumpBible hashtag is still going strong
Earlier this week, Donald Trump awkwardly dodged a series of questions about the bible during an interview on Bloomberg?s ?With All Due Respect.? Most notably, he refused to name his favorite bible verse ? not even one ? because that was ?too personal.? (Also, when asked if he was ?an Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy,? he responded, ?Uh, probably equal.?)
Trump?s elusive answers prompted people to begin writing fake bible verses in ?Trump Speak,? and thus, the #TrumpBible hashtag was born. Now, a few days later, it?s still going strong.
Here are some of the earlier contributions:
http://time.com/4015860/donald-trump-bible-twitter-hashtag/ (http://time.com/4015860/donald-trump-bible-twitter-hashtag/)
(http://www.thelolshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120801-162700.jpg)
"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." - Alice Walker
Dennis
(https://s3-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fmedia.cagle.com%2F144%2F2015%2F07%2F21%2F166935_600.jpg&sp=843bad0628004d43e1012c1d501035d7)
Paul Harvey "The Policeman"
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/2c1e59b43899bd6a545dc48d98814391/tumblr_no8owmC3Cx1qf7lkgo1_1280.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/ButYeah/Political%20Crap/bc35cd2422f2b08ac16bb6596e20edee_zpsgncfcgsk.jpg)
oh good grief....it IS him.....LOL
(http://i.imgur.com/vEZsTxj.jpg)
Quote from: Mugwump on September 06, 2015, 06:55:20 PM
oh good grief....it IS him.....LOL
(http://i.imgur.com/vEZsTxj.jpg)
LOL
Every time i see her i can't stop thinking about Annie from the Misery movie.
Don't know if it's the pilgrim clothing or what.
WICHITA (The Borowitz Report)?Saying that ?things just didn?t work out,? the billionaire Koch brothers have decided to put Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker up for sale.
The Kochs, who earlier had purchased Gov. Walker with great fanfare, announced their plan to sell the politician in a terse statement from Koch Industries headquarters in Wichita.
?Scott Walker is a fine individual, and we wish him well,? the Kochs? statement read. ?We are confident that he will be a good fit for some other billionaire industrialists.?
Republican insiders, however, called the Kochs? plan to sell Walker highly optimistic, and noted that the market for the Wisconsin Governor was, at this point, virtually nonexistent.
The Kochs, who reportedly had been frustrated by Walker?s poor performance in the polls, finally decided to sell the Wisconsinite after last weekend?s odd pronouncement, in which he seemed to support a border wall with Canada.
According to a Koch associate, ?Ignorance has always been a part of Scott?s appeal, but that Canada thing was just too much.?
After their plan to sell him was announced, the Kochs immediately pulled Walker off the campaign trail for fear that he might say something that would further reduce his dwindling market value.
In Iowa, an aide to Walker said that the Governor was ?still processing? the news that he had been put up for sale. ?It takes a while for Scott to understand things,? the aide said.
|^| Borowitz is great......LOL
He's just a 'wild' and 'crazy' guy.....LOL
(http://img.izismile.com/img/img8/20150908/1000/daily_gifdump_906_16.gif)
Is that a mexican hat dance he's doing.
Quote from: ghonk on September 09, 2015, 11:59:31 AM
Is that a mexican hat dance he's doing.
...who knows ??..... huh
If William Shattner danced, it might look like that.
Quote from: BillT on September 09, 2015, 01:09:28 PM
If William Shattner danced, it might look like that.
(http://i.imgur.com/fRo8Tbz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TVPxdpX.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/MwFbwaD.jpg)
lol. Great morning pick me up. |^| |^| |^|
Now that's funny. When the election is over, all the other horse's asses involved should buy Donald a beer for diverting the attention from them LOL
I funniest thing is how they all talk shit about each other until a candidate is finally chosen to represent their party,then they tell you how great he is , and have their full support.
Why should they change, it's been working well for them..... we just keep putting them in office.
Dennis
The two party system is a joke,and anything else would likely be a bigger one.
(http://i.imgur.com/EPiQ3YZ.jpg)
:)
;D
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.
Carry on.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.
Carry on.
They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL
Quote from: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.
Carry on.
They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:54:12 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.
Carry on.
They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
LOL...it does seem like quite a few were simply born in office, they've been there so dang long.....it sure makes term limits attractive, eh? |^|
Sure does Jon. Many states are trying for an Article 5 but really does anyone see that actually happening. Face it. Either side they are pretty much bought. Some of the Tea Party people aren't. Yet. But they too will succumb to the green.
QuoteQuote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|
QuoteGiven my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:54:12 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 11, 2015, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 11, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
Seems that the democrats here have already posted a bunch of Trump memes. I guess if you don't post negative stuff against the republicans you get "bitch slapped" here.
Carry on.
They all deserve a good slap.................................and ..so let's settle down gentlemen...there will be many more pics to come....LOL
Given my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
I wouldn't even want Trump hauled off and shot,well maybe. ;D
Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:04:52 PM
QuoteQuote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|
QuoteGiven my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!
It is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up. And while I am very Second Amendment I personally don't own firearms. Mostly because I refuse to get one without taking the time to go and get educated about them first. And don't take that as my house is not protected. It fully is. Just not with a firearm.
Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:04:52 PM
QuoteQuote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
|^|
QuoteGiven my druthers I'd put all of them, especially the career pols on both sides in front of a firing squad.
So violent, detached from reality and unAmerican!
Go vote with your guns back in Syrian or Iraq where you would seem to feel more at home.
We use ballots in this country!
Such venom is unnecessary..............and now you see why I don't like having a politics thread..........it gets really personal quickly....
sad, I'd thought we were better than that.......
QuoteIt is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up.
Words and expressions can have consequences.
Show some responsibility for your mouth (or fingers in this case) instead of blathering on mindlessly.
Try being thoughtful and you might not have to try to recover from your lame statements.
Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:19:47 PM
QuoteIt is just an expression of how fed up I am with all/most/many of them Bill. Lighten up.
Words and expressions can have consequences.
Show some responsibility for your mouth (or fingers in this case) instead of blathering on mindlessly.
Try being thoughtful and you might not have to try to recover from your lame statements.
I didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.
And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.
QuoteQuote from: GraphicGr8s on Today at 10:39:22 AM
;D
Fearfull and naive,how come i don't see a picture of Trump.
Or are you saving that one for the big mouth,arrogant,bigoted POS post.
QuoteI didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.
And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.
You are acting passive-aggressive. Alternating between nice and nasty. Trying to have it both ways, with responsibility for nothing.
QuoteI didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did.
Comparing people to Nazis?
Although you may not have attacked anyone here, you are way overboard in your personal attacks on others who are not here and not able to defend themselves.
Furthermore, these attacks are complete bullshit rather than suggesting anything that has the slightest chance of providing a fruitful outcome.
Its easy to be all tear down. It is more difficult (perhaps too difficult) to be productive.
Quote from: Mugwump on August 29, 2015, 10:58:13 AM
(http://www.thelolshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120801-162700.jpg)
Am I the only one that noticed the misspelling in the meme?
Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 03:47:06 PM
QuoteI didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did. Let's get past this one Bill. We are better than that. Politicians seem to be pretty fair game here (and about everyplace else). Well at least republican pols anyway. Like comparing Trump to a horse's ass.
And for the record, while this entire post was attributed to me via the quote function only the smile emoticon is mine. The rest was ghonks post. Just for the record.
You are acting passive-aggressive. Alternating between nice and nasty. Trying to have it both ways, with responsibility for nothing.
QuoteI didn't start the personal attack Bill. You did.
Comparing people to Nazis?
Although you may not have attacked anyone here, you are way overboard in your personal attacks on others who are not here and not able to defend themselves.
Furthermore, these attacks are complete bullshit rather than suggesting anything that has the slightest chance of providing a fruitful outcome.
Its easy to be all tear down. It is more difficult (perhaps too difficult) to be productive.
This is right. But you did.
If I posted the memes like others do about republicans you would have no comment. How do I know? Because you have not commented on any of those Bill. Just the ones I post. Sorry Bill. I see all the attacks on the Reps. yet you say nothing. Not a word.
BTW one was a Nazi. One was a Marxist.
I'm not here to defend Republicans. You seem to be doing a fine job of it.
Nor am I comparing them to Nazis and Commies.
I am more concerned about letting cowardly slurs against people, not otherwise being defended, go unremarked.
Try Making Sense instead.
By the way, there are many things you or others post which I don't agree with, but which I feel no particular need to respond to.
Most of these, to me, are just disagreements within the bounds of normal discourse.
Some of your posts just seem to raise to that special level.
I believe the pics are posted more in the spirit of humor for both parties foibles......the jokes and comments pretty much the same....so it's probably best if you view it all with a grain of salt....it's not serious stuff.....get it??
The internet is full of this garbage....pics, comments, jokes, etc....and it'll keep on being popped in here to be laughed at too...to argue any of these, or to get personal, or to read them as an attack is simply wrong.......chill gang....
Quote from: BillT on September 11, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
I'm not here to defend Republicans. You seem to be doing a fine job of it.
Bill, you missed the point. I'm not defending most of the Republicans either.
Last election the voters pretty much gave the Republican party a mandate to stop Hussein from continuing to destroy the US. What most, like Boehner, McConnell, Graham, McCain et al are doing pretty much disgusts any Conservative. Instead of standing up and doing what they were elected to do instead they act like Hussein Lite.
HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.
Quote from: ghonk on September 11, 2015, 11:18:58 PM
HUSSEIN continuing to Destroy America, stop worrying,if the Bushs couldn't do it no one can.
How so Greg? State your case. Might as well keep it to W since HW was only there for four years. Of course we did have Bill for eight. But fortunately his spending spree was curtailed by Newt and the Contract.
Like this.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/12/bush200712
And this.
http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/
I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.
We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..
Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..
We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?
I still love my country.
A very interesting read...
====================
Thomas L. Friedman | New York Times
Let?s not mess with pluralism
NORMALLY, WHen your main geopolitical rivals are shooting themselves in both feet, the military manual says step back and enjoy the show. But I take little comfort in watching China burning money and Russia burning food, because in today?s interdependent world we?re all affected.
I also find no joy in it because we Americans, too, have started burning our most important source of competitive advantage ? our pluralism. One of our two political parties has gone nuts and started following a pied piper of intolerance, named Donald Trump.
First, we watched China?s leadership burn money ? trying to prop up a ridiculously overvalued stock market by buying falling stocks with government savings, and then seeing that market continue to collapse because the very fact that the government was intervening suggested no one knew what these stocks were worth.
The Wall Street Journal reported on July 30 that the ?state-owned China Securities Finance Corp. has been spending up to 180 billion yuan a day ($29 billion) to try to stabilize stocks.? Since the Shanghai exchange has fallen sharply since then, the amount of money China burned trying to prop up already unrealistic valuations must be staggering.
The economic management team in Beijing has seriously lost its way. But leaders do funky things when the ruling party?s bargain with its people is ?we get to rule and you get to get rich.? Collapsing markets can quickly lead to collapsing legitimacy.
Ask the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He burned the eastern quarter of Ukraine to distract the Russian middle class from his economic mismanagement and illegitimacy.
Putin decided that building his own Silicon Valley ? the Skolkovo Innovation Center outside of Moscow ? was too hard. So to build his legitimacy he chose nationalism and seized Crimea instead. Putin prefers to manufacture chips on his shoulder than microchips. When the Crimea annexation nationalist sugar high wore off, Putin started burning food imported from countries sanctioning Russia for seizing Crimea from Ukraine.
As The New York Times reported on Aug. 6, ?Following an order by President Vladimir Putin, officials threw huge piles of pork, tomatoes, peaches and cheese into landfills and garbage incinerators. The frenzy, remarkable even by the standards of Russia?s recent politicization of food supplies, was gleefully reported by Russian state television.? This is in a country where food prices have soared because of the collapse of the ruble.
My fear is that once Putin?s food-burning nationalist sugar high wears off, he?ll burn up another neighbor. Estonia, please beware.
Alas, though, America has joined this assets bonfire. We?re now in a world where all top-down authority structures are being challenged. It?s most obvious in the Arab world where you have pluralistic countries that lack pluralism and so could be held together from the top-down only by an iron fist ? and when that iron fist got removed they spun apart. America?s greatest advantage is its pluralism: It can govern itself horizontally by its people of all colors and creeds forging social contracts to live together as equal citizens.
It not only makes us more stable but also more innova?tive, because we can collab?orate internally and exter?nally with anyone anywhere, leveraging more brainpower. Who is the new CEO of Goo?gle? Sundar Pichai. Who is the new CEO of Microsoft? Satya Nadella. Mark Zuckerberg?s family did not come over on the Mayflower.
But right now we?re messing around with that incredible asset. Yes, we must control our borders; it is the essence of sovereignty. It has been a failure of both our polit?ical parties that the Mexi?can- American border has been so porous. So I am for a high wall but with a very big gate ? one that legally lets in energetic low-skilled workers and the high-IQ risk-takers who have made our economy the envy of the world ? and for legislation that provides a pathway for the millions of illegal immigrants already here to gain legal status and eventually citizenship.
In June 2013, the Senate, including 14 Republicans, passed a bill that would do all that. But the extremists in the GOP House refused to follow, so the bill stalled.
And now we have Trump shamelessly exploiting this issue even more. He?s calling for an end to the 14th Amend?ment?s birthright principle, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, and also for a government program to round up all 11 million illegal immigrants and send them home ? an utterly lunatic idea that Trump dismisses as a mere ?management? prob?lem. Like lemmings, many of the other GOP presidential hopefuls just followed Trump over that cliff.
This is not funny anymore. This is not entertaining. Donald Trump is not cute. His ugly nativism shamefully plays on people?s fears and ig?norance. It ignores bipartisan solutions already on the table, undermines the civic ideals that make our melting pot work in ways no European or Asian country can match (try to become a Japanese) and tampers with the very secret of our sauce ? pluralism, that out of many we make one.
Every era spews up a Joe McCarthy type who tries to thrive by dividing and fright?ening us, and today his name is Donald Trump.
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?
My sentiments exactly. We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers. At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?
My sentiments exactly. We have become a nation of whiners and finger pointers. At the end of the day, we get the government we deserve.
Dennis
|^|
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 04:58:44 AM
I think folks using 'Hussein' when referring to our President is part of the problem too. You may dislike our country's leader, but he is still the President of the United States and being so deserves our respect.
We as a nation have lost all respect for our highest office, and each other. The generation of 'I want it now' instant gratification, aided by the internet, and a worthless press, have created a society of mean spirited , immature, uninformed, opinionated know it all's. However concerned we may say we are...we continue to elect/re-elect either same people, or clones of them, into office to represent us. What does that imply about our really caring what happens..?? ..it implies that we're hypocrites.....content with the status quo, but complaining when nothing changes for the better..
Then there are the internet closet bullies...anonymity brings them out to spew their nonsense into every topic available...you'll see them everywhere, either young folks acting like their parents aren't home, or just those mean folks that are all smiles when you pass them on the streets..easy to spot them too...they never have something nice to say.....about anything..
We have become judgmental bigots, who cannot have a civil conversation without name calling and mean spirited innuendos, because we consider ourselves intellectual enough to discuss those things, even tho we really don't know much about them except for the sounds bites that are spoon fed to the public by the media.
How can we expect to get the representation we say we need, if we are content to just bitch about it, and not become involved enough to even vote intelligently?
I still love my country.
Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.
I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect. Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.
You want to talk about disrespect look at what they did to W.
As for reelecting the same or same type of person to office, any office, look at what is offered on the table. Gruel. Or gruel. You're free to chose. No one wants to subject themselves to being torn apart by the "press". (That term is used ever so loosely.) A couple of promising hopefuls, like Ted Cruz stood up but most won't.
And I do educate myself. There is no one that knows me personally that would ever say I am a low to no information voter.
Greg, let's take this one first:
Quote20. To begin with, Bush?s brother Jeb and the American Supreme Court stole the presidency on his behalf in 2000. Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida at the time, cynically blocked more than 50,000 African-American voters from voting, then refused to allow a simple recount of the Florida votes after tens of thousands of complaints regarding voter difficulties at the voting booth due to confusing ballots. Several major national news organizations have verified that, had the votes been recounted, VP Al Gore would have won the presidency rather than President Bush.
How many times were the ballots counted? Every time they were in W's favor. Let's say, just for giggles they did in fact count them one more time and it went to Gore. What then? Gore gets the position? What about the four times that went to W? The only real place that was in doubt was south Florida. Democrat territory.
Quote3. President Bush and his policies led to the 2007 Great Recession. The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Reserve stood idly by while the big banks created a $600,000,0000,000,000 mortgage-backed derivatives bubble that burst and brought down the global economy
Anyone ever realize that W tried at least 3 times to stop the fall?
2001
April:
The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity." (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)
2002
May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)
2003
February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.
September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements. September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities ? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ? are not facing any kind of financial crisis ? The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03) October:
Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)
November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)
2004
February:
The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore ? should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)
February:
Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)
April:
Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages. I don't think we are in any remote danger here. This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there." ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)
June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)
2005
April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America ?
Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)
July:
Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)
2007
August:
President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)
August:
Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)
December:
President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs ? and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)
2008
February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)
March:
President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)
April:
President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by ? helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)
May:
President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.
"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that ? and Congress is making progress on this ? is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)
June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)
July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.
September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? ? I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years." (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)
Odd....most of these measures have been repealed by the republicans as the current President attempts to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again...Elizabeth warren is a strong advocate of stronger wall street control measures too. The Republicans don't like that....and yes, they didn't like Bush trying to do something preventative too.....they just let Barnie carry the torch for them.
Trouble with George was that he might have talked about it, but couldn't get anything done....and it's the same wall that President Obama is banging on now. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs....on the 1%'ers and their lobbyists......oh and those Congressional members in their hip pockets...
""Suffice it to say Jon I would venture we all here love this country. We are flag waving Americans.
I still respect the office of the presidency. It's the current occupant that garners little to no respect.""
If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:01:57 PM
Even Bill Clinton got more of my respect than this guy.
https://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs
..... sorry no respect for this liar and cheat.
On his worst day our current president is head & shoulder above Bill Clinton in respectability. Of course you could probably say that for most of the other presidents as well.
Dennis
Quote1. Unlike President Obama, President Bush stood by and watched as 35 million uninsured Americans risked death and financial ruin without proper and affordable health care.
And the Affordable Care Act is working? What needed to be done was a multi step process. HSAs. Selling across state lines. Tort reform to name just a few.
I know my premiums have gone up. And up. And I now pay more OOP than previously. So while my wexpenses have gone up salary is stagnant.
Quote7. Bush created spiraling federal deficits. After President Clinton handed him an annual budget surplus, President Bush single-handedly drove our country into that by creating the three biggest drivers of federal debt: the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and Medicare part D. according to a recent report by a Harvard researcher, the total costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars will end up being somewhere between $4 and $6 trillion.
Well let's compare that to us. If I have a car and for the first little while I take care of it I have "x" amount of expenditure. Now what happens if I stop? I of course save money. And it may run fine. At least until I sell it in 4 years. Then after I am done with it the engine blows up. Replace the engine. Cost? More than maintenance would have been but hey IK saved money. Same with the money Clinton didn't spend on our military. He decimated it like Carter and like Reagan W had to rebuild it.
If you owe trillions of dollars how the devil do you ever have a surplus? I owe 148,000 on the house and $6,000 on a CC. Until both are paid off I won't have a surplus.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-bill-clinton-didnt-balance-budget
http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 07:37:15 PM
If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...
But it is his name. I do not call him names like the libs did/do to W. W got torn apart by the libs.
I can't stand my middle name yet some still insist.
Dennis, I will respectfully disagree on Slick. At least he somewhat loves this country. Hussein does not.
Adding to the current situation information.
While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.
Greg, I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:47:46 PM
And the Affordable Care Act is working?
There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.
Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start? The UK is still improving on their program.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:00:40 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:47:46 PM
And the Affordable Care Act is working?
There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.
Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start? The UK is still improving on their program.
Dennis
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:57:39 PM
Adding to the current situation information.
While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.
'Joe blow',Greg I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.
It never got quite that bad as to the 400's....LOL.....
And the ACA is working....where it's not is where the Republican lead states turned down the matching funding to create insurance pools for everyone...and by not doing this they forced the folks in their states to pay inflated insurance premiums....and the ACA is plenty good for Cruz, huh?...his wife quits her job so they can sign up for the good/cheap ACA healthcare...yes, it's working fine most everywhere except in the states where they're just plain rejecting it to try and make it, and the President, look bad......sad.....
Quote6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.
Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?
According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more. The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.
And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:
QuoteBut the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.
The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:00:40 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:47:46 PM
And the Affordable Care Act is working?
There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.
Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start? The UK is still improving on their program.
Dennis
Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?
The most recent Real Clear Politics average of recent Obamacare approval finds 43.6% favoring the law and 51.4% opposing it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlaszewski2/2015/06/29/why-the-affordable-care-act-isnt-here-to-stay/
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:13:38 PM
Quote6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.
Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?
According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more. The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.
And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:
QuoteBut the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.
The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.
The 1%'ers saw a spike in their earnings from 2000-2007, plus the influx of new 1'%'ers emerged.....it's what caused the crash. They were tapping that mortgage market money for all it was worth....they likely would have paid even more except for tax loopholes and offshore accounts....and rightly so...
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 08:09:55 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:00:40 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:47:46 PM
And the Affordable Care Act is working?
There are lots of folks all over this great country that think it is.
Did you think they were going to implement a program that was perfect right from the start? The UK is still improving on their program.
Dennis
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:57:39 PM
Adding to the current situation information.
While we all think that this mess started in the 2000s it has even deeper roots. You need to go back to the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.
Then look at the lawsuit ACORN filed against NCNB forcing them to make loans to those of lower income/lower credit.
'Joe blow',Greg I can't ever pay you back and my CR is 400. Loan me $200,000 so I can buy a house.
It never got quite that bad as to the 400's....LOL.....
And the ACA is working....where it's not is where the Republican lead states turned down the matching funding to create insurance pools for everyone...and by not doing this they forced the folks in their states to pay inflated insurance premiums....and the ACA is plenty good for Cruz, huh?...his wife quits her job so they can sign up for the good/cheap ACA healthcare...yes, it's working fine most everywhere except in the states where they're just plain rejecting it to try and make it, and the President, look bad......sad.....
In 2013, months before the exchanges came online and the changeover took effect, the government's human resources department issued rules for how Congress would obtain insurance through the exchanges.
Under those rules, senators, representatives and staff seeking insurance through the federal government are required to purchase it on a Washington, D.C.-based exchange intended for local small businesses. But they still receive the same employer contribution as other federal workers ? about 75%.
The companies offering policies through the exchange may be different from those with plans in the federal benefits program and there may be "slight differences in benefit design," said Sabrina Corlette, project director at Georgetown University's Center on Health Insurance Reforms. But on the whole, the options are about the same.
"Essentially those folks are being treated as if they're still in an employer-based plan with an employer contribution to make the premium affordable for members and staff," she said of members of Congress and staffers.
In short, the Affordable Care Act ? as amended by Grassley's proposal ? created a new bureaucratic pathway that members of Congress and their staff must follow to obtain health insurance, but it's virtually indistinguishable from what they had previously.
THE SPECIFICS: So, how does that all relate to Ted Cruz?
Cruz has said he received no health insurance coverage through the federal government since becoming a U.S. senator in 2013. Instead, he and his daughters have been covered under his wife's employer-provided plan.
Now, he has options.
He could enroll in congressional coverage, thereby going on the Washington, D.C.-based exchange, shopping for a plan and then paying roughly 25% of the premium while the federal government picks up the rest.
Because of the Grassley amendment, this technically means he's obtaining coverage under Obamacare, but it's a distinction without a difference, Corlette said. Under this scenario, Cruz would still get insurance with a major contribution from his employer, the federal government.
He wouldn't be enrolled in Medicaid ? which was expanded in many states under Obamacare ? or receive any of the government subsidies provided to moderate-income Americans obtaining private insurance through an exchange, according to the federal Office of Personnel Management.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?
Just off the top of my head I'd say it's because most of those polled haven't bothered to do any fact finding and simply base there opinion on the crap they hear from outlets like FOX......
Bill O'Reilly is to white people what Jessie Jackson is to the black people.
Dennis
QuoteAnd now we have Trump shamelessly exploiting this issue even more. He?s calling for an end to the 14th Amend?ment?s birthright principle, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born here, and also for a government program to round up all 11 million illegal immigrants and send them home ? an utterly lunatic idea that Trump dismisses as a mere ?management? prob?lem. Like lemmings, many of the other GOP presidential hopefuls just followed Trump over that cliff.
If by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.
The 14th was ratified in 1868. How come Indians born in the US were not citizens until 1924?
The 14th was actually written for the former slave since they were under the jurisdiction of the US. Illegal aliens are not. They are illegal and actually subject to the jurisdiction of their mother land.
It was in fact to prevent the former slave from the democrats of the time.
http://www.14thamendment.us/index.html
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2015, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Why is Obamacare still so unpopular?
Just off the top of my head I'd say it's because most of those polled haven't bothered to do any fact finding and simply base there opinion on the crap they hear from outlets like FOX......
Bill O'Reilly is to white people what Jessie Jackson is to the black people.
Dennis
Better Fox than the crap spewed by the liberal media. Although I can't believe Fox still has Geraldo and O'Reilly.
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 08:24:18 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 08:13:38 PM
Quote6. He instated the reckless and unnecessary Bush tax cuts. The biggest experiment in supply-side trickle down economics in history, the Bush tax cuts resulted in catastrophe, blowing a hole in the federal budget and leading to unprecedented social economic inequality.
Why, and when did he instate them? What was going on?
According to official IRS data, the top 1% of income earners paid $84 billion more in federal income taxes in 2007 than in 2000 before the Bush tax cuts were passed, 23% more. The share of total federal income taxes paid by the top 1% rose from 37% in 2000, before the Bush tax cuts, to 40% in 2007, after the tax cuts.
And finally a word from that great Republican John F Kennedy:
QuoteBut the most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending. In the past, this could be done in part by the increased use of credit and monetary tools, but our balance of payments situation today places limits on our use of those tools for expansion. It could also be done by increasing federal expenditures more rapidly than necessary, but such a course would soon demoralize both the government and our economy. If government is to retain the confidence of the people, it must not spend more than can be justified on grounds of national need or spent with maximum efficiency. And I shall say more on this in a moment.
The final and best means of strengthening demand among consumers and business is to reduce the burden on private income and the deterrents to private initiative which are imposed by our present tax system -- and this administration pledged itself last summer to an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes to be enacted and become effective in 1963.
The 1%'ers saw a spike in their earnings from 2000-2007, plus the influx of new 1'%'ers emerged.....it's what caused the crash. They were tapping that mortgage market money for all it was worth....they likely would have paid even more except for tax loopholes and offshore accounts....and rightly so...
New 1%ers. Do you mean new as in new to the US from other counties or newly rich 1%ers?
And Jon, two things of note.
1 The 1% pay over 50% of the taxes.
2 47% of the people pay no taxes.
And who was the one that tried to stop the faucet of mortgage money Jon? Who tried to protect the taxpayer Jon? Which Senator had their hand in Country Wide Mortgages back pocket Jon?
Quote from: ghonk on September 12, 2015, 12:46:13 AM
And this.
http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/
Quote8. Bush destroyed America?s standing in the world by ignoring the international ban on torture. While ignoring several agreements, namely the Geneva Convention, the Pentagon created a network of secret prisons and detention centers, where American soldiers tortured and mistreated suspected terrorists. The Bush White House then created secret detention sites in Eastern Europe in order to evade traditional justice systems.
What they don't tell you is the Geneva Conventions (yes, it is plural there are 4 conventions IIRC) do not apply.
Quote
Unfortunately, the basis for the Red Cross's conclusion appears to have more to do with institutional self-aggrandizement than with international law. Many leftist academics and activists insist that the Geneva Conventions must be universally applied. Yet, that argument is undercut by those treaties' texts. The Third Geneva Convention explicitly states that parties need not apply it to all conflicts, especially when the foes are not parties, and when enemies do not abide by its terms.[16]
No terrorist group is a party to the Geneva Conventions. They have not signed, much less ratified, those treaties. Moreover, it is evident that Hamas, Hezbollah, and members of the global Al-Qaeda network spurn both the spirit and the letter of international treaties designed to ameliorate the cruelty of war. Bloody attacks in New York, Jerusalem, Bali, Madrid, and Beslan are testament to the fact that these groups seek to kill civilians rather than to take captives. And when Islamist terrorists do seize hostages, brutality rather than protection appears to be the rule.
Iraqi insurgents beheaded 26-year-old American businessman Nicholas Berg and shot 20-year-old Keith Matthew Maupin shortly after the June 28, 2004 transfer of sovereignty. On July 22, Iraqi police found the beheaded corpse of a Bulgarian hostage. The Arabic satellite television network Al-Jazeera had confirmed on July 13 that it had a tape showing his execution.[17] Iraqi captors have also executed Pakistanis, a Turk, and a South Korean, among others. Such mistreatment of prisoners is not a new phenomenon among terrorist groups. In the 1980s, Hezbollah captured a number of Westerners in Lebanon, among them priests, journalists, professors, a librarian, and even the president of the American University of Beirut. Hezbollah tortured and hanged U.S. Marine lieutenant colonel William Higgins. Iraqi insurgents who decapitate civilian hostages have no more international legal claim to protection than did Hezbollah kidnappers.
By violating every tenet of international law regarding treatment of prisoners, terrorist groups forfeit any entitlement to protection under the Geneva Conventions. U.S. forces would be within their legal rights to treat captured Al-Qaeda members as they did Nazi saboteurs during World War II?trial by military commission and execution by firing squad.
Quote from: ghonk on September 12, 2015, 12:46:13 AM
And this.
http://aattp.org/george-w-bush-top-20-ways-he-destroyed-america/
Greg, I have provided the proof shooting down much of the left wing rhetoric you linked. Do I really need to go on?
Quote10. When attacking Iraq, the Bush Pentagon failed to declare martial law, and did not secure anything except the Iraqi Oil Ministry. Tens of thousands of National Guard soldiers took to the streets in protest, looted the National Museum, and terrorized the Iraqi people as the American soldiers looked on.
I'm not exactly sure if the US President could in fact legally declare martial law in a foreign country.
The stretch with the flattest level is with the republican control of purse strings. Actually Conservative not repubican.
Yeah it's true.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 12, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 12, 2015, 07:37:15 PM
If you truly respected the office, you'd have respect enough not to call him by the name 'Hussein', which you know is not a flattering term...
But it is his name. I do not call him names like the libs did/do to W. W got torn apart by the libs.
I can't stand my middle name yet some still insist.
Dennis, I will respectfully disagree on Slick. At least he somewhat loves this country. Hussein does not.
I call him Hussein because thats his name ,oh please.
You call him Hussein becasue many Muslims share it,and you are trying to associate them.A code for all the bigoted Muslim haters.
If his middle name was Jesus you sure as hell wouldn't be calling him that,you probably couldn't force yourself to type it.
You seem to have all these 'sound bites' memorized, and bookmarked all the appropriate tea party links bashing everything....you aren't very open minded are you?...
So far I haven't seen one good thing that you've said about our President, sad. Myself, I'm not going to continue to trade barbs on 'he says, she says'....we could trade pundit quotes from both sides of any issue til the cows come home. You obviously have built up a scorn regarding everything that our President has accomplished while in office. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it....but be sure and respect others for their opinions too.
Quote from: Mugwump on September 13, 2015, 04:50:16 AM
You seem to have all these 'sound bites' memorized, and bookmarked all the appropriate tea party links bashing everything....you aren't very open minded are you?...
So far I haven't seen one good thing that you've said about our President, sad. Myself, I'm not going to continue to trade barbs on 'he says, she says'....we could trade pundit quotes from both sides of any issue til the cows come home. You obviously have built up a scorn regarding everything that our President has accomplished while in office. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it....but be sure and respect others for their opinions too.
Jon, the site for W trying to stop the fall is a .gov. Doubt that is Tea Party. Others are from various sources some liberal at that. No they are not bookmarked. It took a while to research what I posted.
What I have posted are not my opinion. They are in fact fact. I avoided the rhetoric wherever possible and presented researched facts.
What has he really accomplished?
One good thing about out President? Sure. Come Jan 2017 he will be gone. That's good.
QuoteWhat I have posted are not my opinion. They are in fact fact. I avoided the rhetoric wherever possible and presented researched facts.
Most of your recent posts look like they were puked back up from some crypto-racist websites that you are too embarrassed to link to.
I would guess half of them are right wing lies they have posted that you have bought into them hook, line, and sinker.
I felt like I was wasting my time looking at that crap!
If you did your "research" than it is easy to include a link!
Here's the link to the timeline if the collapse.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html
To the USA Today article on Cruz. USA Today ranks in bias as about the same as Google, CBS, Bloomberg and ABC. So definitley not right wing.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/01/ted-cruz-obamacare/70765296/
I provided the links vis a vis CLinton surplus in the post itself.
How about links/information supporting your side? And not from left wing sound bites?
Oh joy.....'link wars'....just peachie.... w!w
QuoteUSA Today ranks in bias as about the same as Google, CBS, Bloomberg and ABC. So definitley not right wing.
Guess your an expert on bias.
QuoteIf by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.
In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Quote from: BillT on September 13, 2015, 05:59:10 PM
QuoteIf by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.
In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Except that where you have a period the Amendment itself has a comma. After the comma it specifies the requirement for it to apply.
While the child of an illegal alien may be born here technically they are subject to the jurisdiction of their motherland not the US.
Then how come the American Indian was not considered a citizen until 1924?
The 14th was so that the former slave would be considered a citizen. They were under the jurisdiction of the US government.
QuoteThe 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."
Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the 1965 immigration Act, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term).
Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment.
In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing:
Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.
http://www.cairco.org/issues/anchor-babies
Bill, I'll save you from looking who Senator Jacob Howard is. He sponsored the 14th.
QuoteThe original intent of the 14th Amendment was clearly not to facilitate illegal aliens defying U.S. law and obtaining citizenship for their offspring, nor obtaining benefits at taxpayer expense. Current estimates indicate there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S., thus causing illegal alien mothers to add more to the U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965.
Australia rescinded birthright citizenship in 2007, as did New Zealand in 2006, Ireland in 2005, France in 1993, and the United Kingdom in 1983. This leaves the United States and Canada as the only remaining industrialized nations to grant automatic citizenship to every person born within the borders of the country, irrespective of their parents' nationality or immigration status.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 13, 2015, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: BillT on September 13, 2015, 05:59:10 PM
QuoteIf by any stretch of the imagination that the 14th gives citizenship status to "anchor babies' then riddle me this.
In one sentence:
Anchor baby is a crypto-racist code word.
For one who often likes to cite the constitution as rational for policies, this reveals either your complete hypocrisy, or your complete stupidity.
14th amendment --> anyone born in the country is a citizen.
Except that where you have a period the Amendment itself has a comma. After the comma it specifies the requirement for it to apply.
While the child of an illegal alien may be born here technically they are subject to the jurisdiction of their motherland not the US.
Then how come the American Indian was not considered a citizen until 1924?
The 14th was so that the former slave would be considered a citizen. They were under the jurisdiction of the US government.
QuoteThe 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."
Babies born to illegal alien mothers within U.S. borders are called anchor babies because under the 1965 immigration Act, they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and eventually a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency. (Jackpot babies is another term).
Post-Civil War reforms focused on injustices to African Americans. The 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 to protect the rights of native-born Black Americans, whose rights were being denied as recently-freed slaves. It was written in a manner so as to prevent state governments from ever denying citizenship to blacks born in the United States. But in 1868, the United States had no formal immigration policy, and the authors therefore saw no need to address immigration explicitly in the amendment.
In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by writing:
Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.
http://www.cairco.org/issues/anchor-babies
and you conveniently left out the rest of your highlighted sentence...huh?.......""who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States,
but will include every other class of persons.....
It seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL
Jon, you are not parsing the sentence correctly.
QuoteThis will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States
who are foreigners, (that is one description) aliens (second description) who belong to the families... (the third description of a person born here).
Broken out the sentence yields in reality three sentences.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are aliens.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors?
If it was meant to include all born here than how come the American Indian was not considered a US citizen until 1924 if the 14th was ratified in 1868? A full 56 years later? The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 14, 2015, 08:16:41 AM
Jon, you are not parsing the sentence correctly.
QuoteThis will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States
who are foreigners, (that is one description) aliens (second description) who belong to the families... (the third description of a person born here).
Broken out the sentence yields in reality three sentences.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are aliens.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors?
Oh joy.....semantics on the wording of the Constitution......gee, I wonder why 'they' never thought of that...
I'm thinking that next to the Bible, Our Constitution has to be the most mis-quoted document(s) out there.....out of context snippets are used to suit about anyone's agenda.....sweeeeeeet...LOL
It's not semantics Jon. It is correct parsing of a sentence.
But alas I guess the Senator was wrong when he said this:
QuoteIt settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 14, 2015, 08:51:10 AM
It's not semantics Jon. It is correct parsing of a sentence.
But alas I guess the Senator was wrong when he said this:
QuoteIt settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States.
LOLOLOLOL.....even more semantics....... w!w
The Donald and the Demagogues
Democracies that trade substance for charisma don?t last. Trump is America?s answer to Hugo Ch?vez.
By Bret Stephens - Aug. 31, 2015 - The Wall Street Journal
If by now you don?t find Donald Trump appalling, you?re appalling.
If you have reached physical maturity and still chuckle at Mr. Trump?s pubescent jokes about Rosie O?Donnell or Heidi Klum, you will never reach mental maturity. If you watched Mr. Trump mock fellow candidate Lindsey Graham?s low poll numbers and didn?t cringe at the lack of class, you are incapable of class. If you think we need to build new airports in Queens the way they build them in Qatar, you should be sent to join the millions of forced laborers who do construction in the Persian Gulf. It would serve you right.
Since Mr. Trump joined the GOP presidential field and leaped to the top of the polls, several views have been offered to explain his popularity. He conveys a can-do image. He is the bluntest of the candidates in addressing public fears of cultural and economic dislocation. He toes no line, serves no PAC, abides no ideology, is beholden to no man. He addresses the broad disgust of everyday Americans with their failed political establishment.
And so forth and so on?a parade of semi-sophisticated theories that act as bathroom deodorizer to mask the stench of this candidacy. Mr. Trump is a loudmouth vulgarian appealing to quieter vulgarians. These vulgarians comprise a significant percentage of the GOP base. The leader isn?t the problem. The people are. It takes the demos to make the demagogue.
There will be other opportunities to write about the radical affinities and moralizing conceits of Democrats and liberals. For now let?s speak plainly about what the Trump ascendancy says about the potential future of the Republican Party and the conservative movement.
It says that we may soon have a conservative movement in which the American creed of ?give us your tired, your poor? could yield to the Trumpian creed that America must not become a ?dumping ground? to poor immigrants from Latin America, as if these millions of hardworking and God-fearing people are a specimen of garbage.
It says that a party that carries on about the importance of e pluribus unum and rails against the identity politics of assorted minorities is increasingly tempted to indulge the paranoid (and losing) identity politics of a dwindling white majority.
It says that a sizable constituency in a party that is supposed to favor a plain reading of the Constitution objects to a plain reading of the 14th Amendment: ?All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.?
It says that a movement that is supposed to believe in defending old-fashioned values and traditions against the assorted degradations of the postmodern left might allow itself to be led by a reality-TV star whose meretricious tastes in trophies, architectural and otherwise, mainly remind me of the aesthetics of Bob Guccione.
It says that a party that is supposed to believe in the incomparable awesomeness of America thinks we are losing the economic hunger games to the brilliant political leadership of . . . Mexico. It says that a movement that is supposed to believe in economic freedom doesn?t believe in the essence of economic freedom: to wit, the free movement of goods, services, capital and labor.
It says that many of the same people who have bellyached nonstop for the past seven years about the cult-of-personality president currently in the Oval Office are seriously willing to consider another cult-of-personality figure on the off-chance he?s peddling the cure America needs. Focus group testing by pollster Frank Luntz suggests that Mr. Trump?s fans could care less about his flip-flopping political views but responded almost rapturously to his apparently magnetic persona.
When people become indifferent to the ideas of their would-be leaders, those leaders become prone to dangerous ideas. Democracies that trade policy substance for personal charisma tend not to last as democracies. They become Bolivarian republics. Donald Trump may be America?s Hugo Ch?vez, minus the political consistency.
***
Because the Republican Party has not lost its mind?at least not yet?I doubt that Mr. Trump will be its presidential nominee. A single bad poll could break him. The summer before an election-year summer tends to be a political clown-time. Voters, like diners in a fancy restaurant, may entertain the idea of ordering the pigeon, but they?ll probably wind up with the chicken.
Still, Mr. Trump?s political star is rising in a period when fringe politics, both on the right and the left, are making a comeback in the West. Marine Le Pen in France. Beppe Grillo in Italy. Jeremy Corbyn in Great Britain. Bernie Sanders in the Democratic Party. Every now and then some of these characters get into office. Look at Viktor Orb?n in Hungary, or Alexis Tsipras in Greece.
Republicans like to think of America as an exceptional nation. And it is, not least in its distaste for demagogues. Donald Trump?s candidacy puts the strength of that distaste to the test.
QuoteIt seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL
Don't be surprised at this. He is really good at cherry picking.
One can create a pseudo-logical rationale easily but ignoring real facts and stringing together random things.
Quote from: BillT on September 14, 2015, 12:30:28 PM
QuoteIt seems you wonder from issue to issue here depending on the 'cut & paste' that you have handy.....LOL
Don't be surprised at this. He is really good at cherry picking.
One can create a pseudo-logical rationale easily but ignoring real facts and stringing together random things.
Actually Bill I leave that to the democrats. I have provided the links if you want to read them yourself to see what I have "cherry picked". I've backed my stuff up. So far I see nothing but rhetoric to support what you say. Well that part of it anyway where you are not personally attacking me.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/10898316_769208286505561_4084451067492756617_n.jpg?oh=50b6af5bf422b41132c33488c043d732&oe=56645423)
Why don't we compare W painting to Bill's antics on that island? Heck just Bill's antics in the White House?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 11:29:25 AM
Why don't we compare W painting to Bill's antics on that island? Heck just Bill's antics in the White House?
You could write the cartoonist, ya know.....he might care??.... |^| LOL
QuoteWell that part of it anyway where you are not personally attacking me.
What you call personal attacks are just me describing your behavior.
The evidence for it is your posts.
You keep piling them higher and deeper, and then complain when other point this out.
Classic Republican tactic.
Its just sad.
Bill I have posted facts then provided the links to where I found them to back it up.
You have posted, hmm, well nothing really to back up anything.
Just personal attacks is all from you.
Typical Democrat tactic.
It is so, so sad.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12006604_1620607864872322_2270509617805582326_o.jpg)
QuoteTypical Democrat tactic.
It is so, so sad.
Copy cat.
Jon, Maher is the idiot. They are already doing a couple of those things.
Bill how about you copycat me and post facts to back up your stuff.
A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She reduced altitude and spotted a man below.
She descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago but I don't know where I am."
The man below replied "You're in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You're between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude."
"You must be a Republican," said the
balloonist. "I am", replied the man.
"How did you know?"
"Well, answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I've no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything, you've delayed my trip even more."
The man below responded, "You must be a Democrat."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," said the man, "You don't know
where you are or where you're going.You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise which you've no idea how to keep, and somehow it's my fault?!!"
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 05:52:35 PM
Jon, Maher is the idiot. They are already doing a couple of those things.
Bill how about you copycat me and post facts to back up your stuff.
......
Well they did give guns to mexico and they did kill a border patrol agent with said gun.
Look how many places it is illegal to own guns. Look at Chicago, DC, NY. The SCOTUS ruled the DC law unconstitutional yet they still don't issue permits.
http://thehill.com/regulation/other/213447-court-overturns-dc-handgun-law
BTW all the gun laws are in violation of the 2nd.
While they claim separation of church and state they are making kids in school in one state write there is no other god but allah.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/parents-furious-after-7th-graders-forced-to-write-allah-is-the/
And since most won't believe that link here is the liberal snopes on it
http://m.snopes.com/islam-tennessee-school/
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 06:47:07 PM
Well they did give guns to mexico and they did kill a border patrol agent with said gun.
Look how many places it is illegal to own guns. Look at Chicago, DC, NY. The SCOTUS ruled the DC law unconstitutional yet they still don't issue permits.
http://thehill.com/regulation/other/213447-court-overturns-dc-handgun-law
BTW all the gun laws are in violation of the 2nd.
While they claim separation of church and state they are making kids in school in one state write there is no other god but allah.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/parents-furious-after-7th-graders-forced-to-write-allah-is-the/
And since most won't believe that link here is the liberal snopes on it
http://m.snopes.com/islam-tennessee-school/
That nut case school teacher is the problem of the local board of education ya know....?? they hired her....
The circus is on now................
http://www.cnn.com/ (http://www.cnn.com/)
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-dad-protests-islamic-lessons-school/nj7Ny/
This stuff is coming down from the Dept of misEducation not just local. Just like Common Core. While legally the federal Department of Education cannot mandate programs like Common Core to the states they do coerce them. If states didn't adopt CC they lost $35 million in funding. Bill Gates also had a hand in it with grants.
QuoteSEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. ?
A history book used in school districts across the state is sparking controversy in Seminole County.
A parent called 9 Investigates after finding out his son was learning too much about the Islamic religion in a public classroom.
Ron Wagner read from part of his son's world history book, "There is no god, but God. Muhamad is the messenger of God."
Wagner is not reading the Five Pillars of Islam from the Quran, but rather his son's 10th-grade world history book from Lyman High School.
"Students were instructed to recite this prayer as the first Pillar of Islam, off of the board at the teacher's instruction," Wagner claims.
Wagner, who is not religious, said he had no idea the public school was teaching so extensively about religion until he spotted a text on his son's phone from a teacher reminding him to complete a prayer rug assignment and study an Islam packet.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 07:19:22 PM
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-dad-protests-islamic-lessons-school/nj7Ny/
This stuff is coming down from the Dept of misEducation not just local. Just like Common Core. While legally the federal Department of Education cannot mandate programs like Common Core to the states they do coerce them. If states didn't adopt CC they lost $35 million in funding. Bill Gates also had a hand in it with grants.
QuoteSEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. ?
A history book used in school districts across the state is sparking controversy in Seminole County.
A parent called 9 Investigates after finding out his son was learning too much about the Islamic religion in a public classroom.
Ron Wagner read from part of his son's world history book, "There is no god, but God. Muhamad is the messenger of God."
Wagner is not reading the Five Pillars of Islam from the Quran, but rather his son's 10th-grade world history book from Lyman High School.
"Students were instructed to recite this prayer as the first Pillar of Islam, off of the board at the teacher's instruction," Wagner claims.
Wagner, who is not religious, said he had no idea the public school was teaching so extensively about religion until he spotted a text on his son's phone from a teacher reminding him to complete a prayer rug assignment and study an Islam packet.
but but but.....I like Bill Gates..........even if Fox Entertainment doesn't.....golly gee....
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Quote from: BillT on September 16, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
Quote from: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: BillT on September 16, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.
If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.
And the Bible is my favorite book. And my favorite verse is the shortest. Two words. "Jesus wept"
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: BillT on September 16, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.
If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.
So are you saying a true muslim is looking to kill everybody,that's what it sounds like.
Christianity should absolutely not be taught in public schools,or any other religion.
Evolution shouldn't be taught if christianity can't be,same old ridiculous BS.If you are worried about your children becoming unbrainwashed send them to a private school of your choice.
Or home school them, and take the chance they don't become freak outcasts who and up killing their parents to escape indoctrination.
QuoteIf Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.
You are in denial of your own essential self (that you are an evolved entity).
You also seem to want your kids to be poorly educated (family tradition?).
If your a Catholic (I am assuming you are Catholic since you are always going on about being Italian, so apologies if you aren't), then you are disagreeing wit what your church says.
Quote from: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 10:11:53 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 16, 2015, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 16, 2015, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: BillT on September 16, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
You should be also worried about the many cases where local school boards are imposing their idea of Christian beliefs on their students.
Exactly,you must be a mind reader because i was just thinking that.
But i'm guessing that would be ok,since it teaches good wholesome religion.You know,none of that gutter stuff.
A true Christian isn't looking to kill everybody. I meet people I don't want to behead them because they're Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Islamic. Or atheist.
If Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.
So are you saying a true muslim is looking to kill everybody,that's what it sounds like.
Christianity should absolutely not be taught in public schools,or any other religion.
Evolution shouldn't be taught if christianity can't be,same old ridiculous BS.If you are worried about your children becoming unbrainwashed send them to a private school of your choice.
Or home school them, and take the chance they don't become freak outcasts who and up killing their parents to escape indoctrination.
My neighbor's girls are both home schooled. They tested well above their public school peers. And neither wants to kill their parents. Both are now in college and still are above par in grades.
http://www.businessinsider.com/structured-homeschool-canada-2011-9
http://www.brighthubeducation.com/homeschool-methodologies/126403-why-homeschooled-kids-are-smarter/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/
QuoteFive areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.
The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.
Beyond academics, there were significant results regarding achievement gaps. It is common knowledge that gender, as well as parents? income and education levels will greatly affect a public school student?s academic results. Public schools have invested greatly to try to close these achievement gaps. The study, however, shows the achievement gaps found in public school were greatly diminished for the home educated.
Your other remark is pretty much totally inane about the home schooled.
I am not Catholic so I can't answer about the Crusades. But then again the Catholic church does many things that are not doctrinally Christian nor biblical. But weren't the crusades against muslim aggression toward Christians?
As for teaching the theory of evolution teach it. But teach creation also.
Quote from: BillT on September 16, 2015, 10:55:25 PM
QuoteIf Christianity cannot be taught in school then neither should Islam or for that matter the theory of evolution.
You are in denial of your own essential self (that you are an evolved entity).
You also seem to want your kids to be poorly educated (family tradition?).
If your a Catholic (I am assuming you are Catholic since you are always going on about being Italian, so apologies if you aren't), then you are disagreeing wit what your church says.
While I was born into a Catholic family I am not Catholic. I've been a "card carrying" athiest. An agnostic. To a Christian. A born again believer saved by Grace.
I am in no way poorly educated Bill. I did go to college and kept a 4.0 the entire time I was there. Yes. I do have my degree. And it's in a totally different field than what I have done for a living my entire life.
Do you believe you came from monkeys.
And this:
Texas Police Won't Charge Muslim Boy With Clock Possession
As you've probably heard (Dallas Morning News, Washington Post, Popehat, everybody else who gets up earlier than I do, which is apparently everybody), police in Irving, Texas, have announced that they will not bring charges against 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed.
This is mostly because he did nothing even remotely illegal.
not a criminal That didn't stop them from taking him away in handcuffs, though, after they decided the digital clock he built was "suspicious in nature" and that they didn't like his answers to their questions.
Just to be clear, as a New York court has just recently reaffirmed recently, you can say whatever you goddamn well please to the authorities (short of making actual credible threats, at least). Saying "the wrong thing" to a government official is not illegal. This is what the First Amendment is for.
Nor is being "suspicious" justification for an arrest, or even for stopping you on the street, unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot and can actually articulate why he or she believes that. So why did they arrest him, exactly?
Well, he built this and brought it to school:
0916ahmedclock
It is a digital clock. (Ahmed likes to build things.) His English teacher thought it "look[ed] like a bomb. I'm confident that she, like virtually every other civilian, has never seen a real bomb, and this doesn't look anything like the bundle of dynamite with attached analog clock that she probably has seen in cartoons. Nor are there any explosives in this "bomb," but it does have that big digital display that we've all seen in movie bombs. The principal confirmed that this is what they had in mind. "It looks like a movie bomb to me," he reportedly told Ahmed.
But neither they nor the police ever believed it was in fact a bomb, as they all admitted later. Nor did they believe he was trying to get them to believe that. "We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," said a police spokesman, and they never had any. "He kept maintaining it was a clock"?because it was?"but there was no broader explanation," the spokesman said. He couldn't explain what sort of "broader explanation" they were looking for, but I guess they wanted him to explain to their satisfaction that he wasn't going to use it like in the movies. The police chief seemed to confirm that this morning when he said the English teacher "was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."
She almost certainly didn't use that word, for one of two reasons: either (1) it's got too many syllables for her brain to process or (2) she knows that's not what "infrastructure" even means. But the more important thing is that his statement confirms she never thought it was in fact a bomb, and the chief also admitted there was never any evidence that he "intended to create alarm" with what they insisted on calling a "hoax bomb."
He, of course, still defended what they had done, as did Irving's mayor (who has previously expressed great concern about "Sharia law" taking over in Texas, which is also stupid). This is because so many scary things have happened that "we have to err on the side of caution," he said, in this case by arresting a 14-year-old for no reason. And it was completely irrelevant, he insisted, that this particular 14-year-old was a dark-skinned Muslim named "Ahmed Mohamed." Their reaction "would have been the same" under any circumstances, he claimed.
Which is either not true or an admission that they would violate any 14-year-old's rights by arresting him or her without reasonable suspicion of a crime. Take your pick.
Source:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/09/texas-police-wont-charge-for-clock.html
http://humanorigins.si.edu/education/intro-human-evolution
a
http://humansarefree.com/2013/12/9-scienctific-facts-prove-theory-of.html
http://www.ucg.org/vertical-thought/prove-evolution-is-false-even-without-the-bible
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 06:27:12 AM
And this:
Texas Police Won't Charge Muslim Boy With Clock Possession
As you've probably heard (Dallas Morning News, Washington Post, Popehat, everybody else who gets up earlier than I do, which is apparently everybody), police in Irving, Texas, have announced that they will not bring charges against 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed.
This is mostly because he did nothing even remotely illegal.
not a criminal That didn't stop them from taking him away in handcuffs, though, after they decided the digital clock he built was "suspicious in nature" and that they didn't like his answers to their questions.
Just to be clear, as a New York court has just recently reaffirmed recently, you can say whatever you goddamn well please to the authorities (short of making actual credible threats, at least). Saying "the wrong thing" to a government official is not illegal. This is what the First Amendment is for.
Nor is being "suspicious" justification for an arrest, or even for stopping you on the street, unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot and can actually articulate why he or she believes that. So why did they arrest him, exactly?
Well, he built this and brought it to school:
0916ahmedclock
It is a digital clock. (Ahmed likes to build things.) His English teacher thought it "look[ed] like a bomb. I'm confident that she, like virtually every other civilian, has never seen a real bomb, and this doesn't look anything like the bundle of dynamite with attached analog clock that she probably has seen in cartoons. Nor are there any explosives in this "bomb," but it does have that big digital display that we've all seen in movie bombs. The principal confirmed that this is what they had in mind. "It looks like a movie bomb to me," he reportedly told Ahmed.
But neither they nor the police ever believed it was in fact a bomb, as they all admitted later. Nor did they believe he was trying to get them to believe that. "We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb," said a police spokesman, and they never had any. "He kept maintaining it was a clock"?because it was?"but there was no broader explanation," the spokesman said. He couldn't explain what sort of "broader explanation" they were looking for, but I guess they wanted him to explain to their satisfaction that he wasn't going to use it like in the movies. The police chief seemed to confirm that this morning when he said the English teacher "was concerned that it was possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."
She almost certainly didn't use that word, for one of two reasons: either (1) it's got too many syllables for her brain to process or (2) she knows that's not what "infrastructure" even means. But the more important thing is that his statement confirms she never thought it was in fact a bomb, and the chief also admitted there was never any evidence that he "intended to create alarm" with what they insisted on calling a "hoax bomb."
He, of course, still defended what they had done, as did Irving's mayor (who has previously expressed great concern about "Sharia law" taking over in Texas, which is also stupid). This is because so many scary things have happened that "we have to err on the side of caution," he said, in this case by arresting a 14-year-old for no reason. And it was completely irrelevant, he insisted, that this particular 14-year-old was a dark-skinned Muslim named "Ahmed Mohamed." Their reaction "would have been the same" under any circumstances, he claimed.
Which is either not true or an admission that they would violate any 14-year-old's rights by arresting him or her without reasonable suspicion of a crime. Take your pick.
Source:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/09/texas-police-wont-charge-for-clock.html
Jon, they suspended a student because he chewed his poptart into the shape of a gun.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/examiner-recommends-school-board-uphold-pop-tart-suspension/
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??
Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 09:16:08 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??
Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...
Sure anyone can. Yet none have. All I hear is just more liberal rhetoric with nothing to back it up. Not even an opinion piece.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 09:16:08 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 17, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
LOL....a new low.............Ben Carson quotes??........ w!w
Actually it isn't directed at anyone in particular though. More to the subject matter.
Unlike the obvious personal attacks at me. Yet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Almost all your links are opinion pieces...despite the link source............heck, I've posted/quoted Borowitz from the NYTimes.....LOL....and in case you haven't noticed...they are satirical opinion pieces.....what's next?? the 'Onion' ??
Anyone can search for sources on a particular viewpoint and find someone who agrees with them....and the post that link....but it still won't make it necessarily true...
Sure anyone can. Yet none have. All I hear is just more liberal rhetoric with nothing to back it up. Not even an opinion piece.
Would it really make any difference?? I think it would just fan the flames. All this is being taken way too seriously......more "he said", "she said" won't solve a thing.
Yeah. If you're conservative you have to back it up. If a lib you're sitting pretty just saying it.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 17, 2015, 10:41:04 AM
Yeah. If you're conservative you have to back it up. If a lib you're sitting pretty just saying it.
You just don't get it do you?? ...all the links in the world won't make you right....your opinion, is just that...your opinion, no matter how important, to you, those feelings may be.....me thinks tho protests too much...............chill
http://www.2think.org/darwinism.shtml
QuoteWhile I was born into a Catholic family I am not Catholic. I've been a "card carrying" athiest. An agnostic. To a Christian. A born again believer saved by Grace.
Well at least you don't have to argue with the Pope in scientific and religious issues.
QuoteI am in no way poorly educated Bill. I did go to college and kept a 4.0 the entire time I was there. Yes. I do have my degree. And it's in a totally different field than what I have done for a living my entire life.
You are certainly uneducated about biology, yet you continue to blather on ignorant crap about it.
QuoteDo you believe you came from monkeys.
I believe that all of us came from the last common ancestor of humans and monkeys, which in turn came from some earlier organism probably somewhat like a rodent (without the funny teeth), and on and on back to more than a billion years ago to when the earth cooled and random chemistry assembled complex sets of self-replicating nano-machines that make copies of the information used in their own generation.
Many of the steps in this scenario are supported but actual data: experiments, fossils that have been found, comparisons using old DNA, modern chemical experiments.
What is your explanation based upon?
Or a more interesting question:
How do you choose which part of what Bible to pull the bits out that you so like to use to justify your nasty feelings about people.
And how is this being American? Seems quite the opposite to me.
QuoteYet Greg is the only one besides me posting links to back up their idea(s).
Wonder why?
I have kind of had it with the quality of your links.
I spent a lot of time chasing your links in a previous thread on climate change.
NEVER have I seem a more pathetic, bunch of (what are most likely) intentionally inaccurate sources (this means cherry picking Mr. Educated).
At that time, I went through them and showed how they were wrong (every one as I recall).
You started a proud tradition of stupid and are now I see going back to the same sources.
You now have a credibility problem.
There is not a good reason to follow your links. The odds are it would be a waste of my time.
And again, this is my opinion (not needing a link) based upon the posts that you have made here (not requiring a link).
It is a description of your own behavior, which you could argue about, but you will consider a personal attack (because you are a conservative and any disagreement with you is a personal attack, an attack on the Bible, or unconstitutional (Of course, it does work the other way does it?)).
Furthermore.
Use links to show DATA.
It better if you use your own words to express your own ideas.
At least give a little summary of the ideas in the links you post.
I am no longer interested in posting links for your benefit, because I do not believe you have any serious interest in other opinions.
Posts for other people are of course different.
(http://s12.postimg.org/imq9hzhsd/10188975_33_920_1227.jpg)
(http://f.tqn.com/y/politicalhumor/1/S/Y/U/6/Art-of-the-Deal.jpg)
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs i turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed up my dinner.
Quote from: ghonk on September 21, 2015, 03:25:48 PM
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs i turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed up my dinner.
This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|
Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports SayWisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.
Quote from: Mugwump on September 21, 2015, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 21, 2015, 03:25:48 PM
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs i turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed up my dinner.
This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|
Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports Say
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.
That's great news. He must have lost the Koch brother's money. I mean support.
Quote from: wsantia1 on September 21, 2015, 04:36:54 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 21, 2015, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: ghonk on September 21, 2015, 03:25:48 PM
Just happened to be scrolling the channel guide and saw the debates were coming on,thinking it might be worth checking out for a few laughs i turned it on.
Nope,every time Trump started talking i felt physically ill,so i had to turn it off before i barfed up my dinner.
This will make your stomach feel a little better.... |^|
Scott Walker: Republican Candidate Set to Drop Out of Presidential Race, Reports Say
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker plans to withdraw from the 2016 race, news outlets reported. He's expected to make the announcement at a news conference Monday evening.
That's great news. He must have lost the Koch brother's money. I mean support.
LOL.....spot on....it just took them a while to recognize a loser... |^|
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/ButYeah/Political%20Crap/803accb6baa8a8b592e10c86b805680f_zpsahat6mlt.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12019883_1232303896795290_1969871393944758577_n.jpg?oh=e7a5e341acb3209b4e54f5e1b7ef100c&oe=56A713D9)
A Lump of Trump.
abf
http://www.zazzle.ca/trump_mussolini_separated_at_birth_anti_trump_button-145238632438649074
WTF
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)
That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12043107_1220965571263767_3973660496883178159_n.jpg?oh=3fc0028a12f590bd0ee0f02dea36518b&oe=56A7CCF8)
That hats big enough that it might even fit Trump's swollen head.
Quote from: BillT on September 23, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)
That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.
The BBC had this report of where Exxon kept around 20 scientists funded so long as they would simply "muddy up" any climate change data. You know, the old "not all scientists are in agreement" BS.....
Dennis
Sounds like the cigarette companies.
Reminds me of the funny movie "Thank you for smoking".
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....
(http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/X/y/5/obama-birthday-which-is-it.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/26/article-2284756-184D6057000005DC-614_634x480.jpg)
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 24, 2015, 02:53:53 PM
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.
I think he's doing a fine job....considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess....which by the way has done absolutely nothing since being voted in at the last election....nada..nil..nothing...zip...zilch...yada yada....
oh wait, they voted again to repeal the ACA for the umpteenth billionith time....we used to call that a 'one trick pony'....
Quoteconsidering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess.
Correction: intentional sabotage of the country's prospects for perceived political gain
Quote from: BillT on September 24, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
Quoteconsidering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess.
Correction: intentional sabotage of the country's prospects for perceived political gain
Bingo !...... |^| I was being gentle... w!w
Quote from: Mugwump on September 24, 2015, 03:18:23 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 24, 2015, 02:53:53 PM
But if you really want it FUBAR send the person in that meme.
I think he's doing a fine job....considering the lack of cooperation of the Repub Congess....which by the way has done absolutely nothing since being voted in at the last election....nada..nil..nothing...zip...zilch...yada yada....
oh wait, they voted again to repeal the ACA for the umpteenth billionith time....we used to call that a 'one trick pony'....
The ACA which had to be passed to find out what was in it and barely passed with a democrat led house.
JV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.
We can agree though on the majority of the "republicans" voted in. Especially the likes of Boehner, McConnell, McCain, Graham et al.
Quote from: BillT on September 23, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
Exxon knew about and researched CO2 and climate change in 1982:
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models (http://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-global-warming-consensus-in-1982-with-in-house-climate-models)
That changed in 1989.
Money was worth more to them than the climate.
So Exxon et al used their own money to get scientists to "think" a certain way.
Unlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"
Follow the money Bill.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/05/top-mit-scientist-govt-funded-climate-science-promotes-alarmism/
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne
Most countries feared us before,now they are running all over us.
Paranoid nonsense.
Let me guess,you're a prepper too.
QuoteJV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.
Probably wrong, but still way better than the alternative!
-----------------------------
QuoteUnlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"
This is completely stupid. Research funding is diverse in its sources and way more competitive than the business world. Much of it is private funds uninformed person.
Where did you get that from? Brain damaged Rush? Lying Breitbart?
------------------------------
Quote
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne
Sad, Sad, Sad! Do you ever do anything except go to these crappy sites?
This is an obvious hack job. This guy was caught hiding his payoffs form the oil industry, in violation of the submission rules to several journals. Rules made to prevent this kind of crooked behavior.
Follow the money yourself fool!!!
These are pathetic arguments only worthy of:
- intellectual wimps who are afraid of looking data in the face because it might contradict their sad beliefs, or
- of companies whose profits are endangered by the data and
- corrupt politicians that have been bought by those companies and the Kock Bros.
Its kind of sad how you are being blindly led around by your nose like this. Wake up!
WASHINGTON (AP) ? In a stunning move, House Speaker John Boehner informed fellow Republicans on Friday that he would resign from Congress at the end of October, giving up his top leadership post and his seat in the House in the face of hardline conservative opposition.
The 13-term Ohio Republican shocked his GOP caucus early Friday morning when he announced his decision in a closed-door session. It came one day after a high point of Boehner's congressional career, a historic speech by Pope Francis to Congress at Boehner's request.
A focus of conservatives' complaints, Boehner "just does not want to become the issue," said Rep. John Mica, R-Fla. "Some people have tried to make him the issue both in Congress and outside," Mica said.
Conservatives have demanded that any legislation to keep the government operating past next Wednesday's deadline strip Planned Parenthood of government funds, an argument rejected by the more pragmatic lawmakers. The dispute has threatened Boehner's speakership and roiled the GOP caucus.
Some conservatives welcomed his announcement.
Quote from: BillT on September 25, 2015, 03:03:38 AM
QuoteJV ISIS has grown.
Our economy is in the toilet.
He's spent more money than all other presidents.
Combined
94 million are still not in the workforce. On the upside if we can get another 94 million out unemployment would be 1%
Most countries feared us before. Now they are running all over us.
While jobs are being created minimum wage jobs and firing a full timer then hiring 4 part timers now is a net gain of 3 jobs is the norm.
Probably wrong, but still way better than the alternative!
-----------------------------
QuoteUnlike our government which will cut funding to someone if they aren't in lock step with their agenda and instead of using private funds uses our money to coerce them to come up with answers so the "science' is settled. How is it different? Because you believe the government "data"
This is completely stupid. Research funding is diverse in its sources and way more competitive than the business world. Much of it is private funds uninformed person.
Where did you get that from? Brain damaged Rush? Lying Breitbart?
------------------------------
Quote
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne
Sad, Sad, Sad! Do you ever do anything except go to these crappy sites?
This is an obvious hack job. This guy was caught hiding his payoffs form the oil industry, in violation of the submission rules to several journals. Rules made to prevent this kind of crooked behavior.
Follow the money yourself fool!!!
These are pathetic arguments only worthy of:
- intellectual wimps who are afraid of looking data in the face because it might contradict their sad beliefs, or
- of companies whose profits are endangered by the data and
- corrupt politicians that have been bought by those companies and the Kock Bros.
Its kind of sad how you are being blindly led around by your nose like this. Wake up!
Bill what is sad is you are so jaded in your thinking. I have followed the money. Most of, if not all of the funding comes from those with something to gain.
And George Soros isn't corrupting politicians for his agenda?
If the libs don't like a scientist's views they "discredit" him. If he had gone along with the BS he probably would be heading it up.
Bill, they got you. Hook. Line. And sinker.
Drink up buddy.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2014/01/02/dark-money-funds-to-promote-global-warming-alarmism-dwarf-warming-denier-research/
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=23246
And BTW where you say "probably wrong" I went to the government site and got the figures. But alas you won't actually do any research yourself.
Quote
Bill what is sad is you are so jaded in your thinking. I have followed the money. Most of, if not all of the funding comes from those with something to gain.
And George Soros isn't corrupting politicians for his agenda?
If the libs don't like a scientist's views they "discredit" him. If he had gone along with the BS he probably would be heading it up.
Bill, they got you. Hook. Line. And sinker.
Drink up buddy.
Easy to say, but backed up by nothing!
Some research! Your deceptive articles (and probably the news ones too) didn't even mention what he was accused of.
That's great journalism!
By the way, the guy discredited himself, just like you have destroyed your own credibility.
Your ignorance is showing again, Mr. Educated.
You should have at least educated yourself on how to make rational judgements.
Then you might get out of your bubble of ill-informed ignorance.
I see you're still unable to give any kind of summary about the the links you post.
Do you even read that crap?
I think not. No normal person would want a link to such embarrassing delusions.
Sure Bill. No one is attacking the "deniers"
Face it they got you.
Hook.
Line.
Sinker.
So sad. So very sad.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/21007-senator-prosecute-climate-realists-under-anti-mafia-rico-law
QuoteWhen former senior NASA climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer referred last year to vicious climate alarmists as ?global warming Nazis? who threaten humanity, he may have been closer to the truth than even he realized at the time. Writing in the Washington Post last week, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) called on the Obama administration to use the anti-gangster Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) to persecute those who cast doubt on the increasingly discredited man-made global-warming theory ? a theory that just four in 10 Americans believe, but that underpins a wide array of statist and globalist scheming at the national and global levels.
A U.S. senator wants to use federal organized crime laws against skeptics of man-made global warming. Nothing says desperation quite like a politician hoping to criminalize a difference of opinion.
In a Washington Post op-ed, Democratic Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse charges in against what he calls "the climate denial network." This group, he says, is behind a "a massive and sophisticated campaign to mislead the American people about the environmental harm caused by carbon pollution." His solution? Prosecute the network with "the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO."
Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/060315-755598-sheldon-whitehouse-wants-to-use-rico-act-to-prosecute-deniers.htm#ixzz3mlm6OmCz
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook
The "science" is so settled that if you disagree they want to lock you up. Twenty scientist want Obama to do just that.
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.
""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....
Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....
Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....
+1
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....
Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....
You mean following the Obama lead don't you. Maybe now they can get Obama stopped from his crazy crap and get this economy and country rolling again. If only McConnell would resign. <<sigh>>
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 11:54:58 AM
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.
""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""
Bill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.
The truth is if these "scientists" were to argue against CC you know for a fact that funding would be cut off.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/new-inquisition-punish-climate-change-deniers/
http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/jailed-for-scientific-dissent-20-climate-scientists-call-for-rico-investigation-of-climate-skeptics.html
QuoteDear President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren,
As you know, an overwhelming majority of climate scientists are convinced about the potentially serious adverse effects of human-induced climate change on human health, agriculture, and biodiversity. We applaud your efforts to regulate emissions and the other steps you are taking. Nonetheless, as climate scientists we are exceedingly concerned that America?s response to climate change ? indeed, the world?s response to climate change ? is insufficient. The risks posed by climate change, including increasing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and increasing ocean acidity ? and potential strategies for addressing them ? are detailed in the Third National Climate Assessment (2014), Climate Change Impacts in the United States. The stability of the Earth?s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth?s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world?s poorest people.
We appreciate that you are making aggressive and imaginative use of the limited tools available to you in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. One additional tool ? recently proposed by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse ? is a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) investigation of corporations and other organizations that have knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, as a means to forestall America?s response to climate change. The actions of these organizations have been extensively documented in peerreviewed academic research (Brulle, 2013) and in recent books including: Doubt is their Product (Michaels, 2008), Climate Cover-Up (Hoggan & Littlemore, 2009), Merchants of Doubt (Oreskes & Conway, 2010), The Climate War (Pooley, 2010), and in The Climate Deception Dossiers (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015). We strongly endorse Senator Whitehouse?s call for a RICO investigation.
The methods of these organizations are quite similar to those used earlier by the tobacco industry. A RICO investigation (1999 to 2006) played an important role in stopping the tobacco industry from continuing to deceive the American people about the dangers of smoking. If corporations in the fossil fuel industry and their supporters are guilty of the misdeeds that have been documented in books and journal articles, it is imperative that these misdeeds be stopped as soon as possible so that America and the world can get on with the critically important business of finding effective ways to restabilize the Earth?s climate, before even more lasting damage is done.
Sincerely,
Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD
William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD
Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO T.N.
Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL
Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX
Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY
Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY
Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY
Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:18:49 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check.....it's the same thing that the President has been dealing with in Congress...both trying to keep the ding dongs in their corral......
I wonder who has the nuts to do either job??.....
Ya know, the 'South' lost the Civil War.....it's a shame they can't get over it.....
You mean following the Obama lead don't you. Maybe now they can get Obama stopped from his crazy crap and get this economy and country rolling again. If only McConnell would resign. <<sigh>>
Gee..what do you recommend .....'Trickle down' economics???.....or raise the church's tiff's....??? ....seriously tho, if you'd put your hate of the President aside, you'd have more of a chance to see reality.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 11:54:58 AM
Your source says it all....a typical article that lumps a whole issue based one one persons doings, in order to bias readers toward an agenda. It proces nothing.
""The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS). The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.""
Bill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.
The truth is if these "scientists" were to argue against CC you know for a fact that funding would be cut off.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/new-inquisition-punish-climate-change-deniers/
http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/jailed-for-scientific-dissent-20-climate-scientists-call-for-rico-investigation-of-climate-skeptics.html
QuoteDear President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren,
As you know, an overwhelming majority of climate scientists are convinced about the potentially serious adverse effects of human-induced climate change on human health, agriculture, and biodiversity. We applaud your efforts to regulate emissions and the other steps you are taking. Nonetheless, as climate scientists we are exceedingly concerned that America?s response to climate change ? indeed, the world?s response to climate change ? is insufficient. The risks posed by climate change, including increasing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and increasing ocean acidity ? and potential strategies for addressing them ? are detailed in the Third National Climate Assessment (2014), Climate Change Impacts in the United States. The stability of the Earth?s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth?s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world?s poorest people.
We appreciate that you are making aggressive and imaginative use of the limited tools available to you in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. One additional tool ? recently proposed by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse ? is a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) investigation of corporations and other organizations that have knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, as a means to forestall America?s response to climate change. The actions of these organizations have been extensively documented in peerreviewed academic research (Brulle, 2013) and in recent books including: Doubt is their Product (Michaels, 2008), Climate Cover-Up (Hoggan & Littlemore, 2009), Merchants of Doubt (Oreskes & Conway, 2010), The Climate War (Pooley, 2010), and in The Climate Deception Dossiers (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015). We strongly endorse Senator Whitehouse?s call for a RICO investigation.
The methods of these organizations are quite similar to those used earlier by the tobacco industry. A RICO investigation (1999 to 2006) played an important role in stopping the tobacco industry from continuing to deceive the American people about the dangers of smoking. If corporations in the fossil fuel industry and their supporters are guilty of the misdeeds that have been documented in books and journal articles, it is imperative that these misdeeds be stopped as soon as possible so that America and the world can get on with the critically important business of finding effective ways to restabilize the Earth?s climate, before even more lasting damage is done.
Sincerely,
Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA
Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD
William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD
Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO T.N.
Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL
Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX
Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY
Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY
Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY
Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT
A masterful cut and paste job...... w!w....wonderful.....
Jon, all I was doing was saving Bill from having to go to the link. Nothing was edited out nor added in by me. As far as I can tell this is the actual letter.
See what I get for being nice.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 25, 2015, 01:37:23 PM
Jon, all I was doing was saving Bill from having to go to the link. Nothing was edited out nor added in by me. As far as I can tell this is the actual letter.
See what I get for being nice.
Nice??....naw, that wasn't your intent...was it? |^|
If the Tea Party and their ilk were in power would destroy the economy. Check out Kansas.
Plus, their philosophy is UnAmerican! They should be back to the country they or their ancestors came from.
QuoteBill I know if it doesn't come from the likes of thinkprogress you don't buy it.
Sorry Dude. I don't even know what think progress is.
WRT the climate denier clown, I got my information on him several weeks or months ago from Science magazine (also not a government thing, just like almost all journals) among other journals.
Your arguments are pathetic and you are now just saying what I say back. To paraphrase you: "Na, Na, Na". Pretty lame.
Also disingenuous and demonstrating a lack of any real thought.
You are really classic case of someone who has to feel they are a victim so they don't have too confront their inability to make any sense of their positions.
It sounds like you think THE WHOLE WORLD is in a CONSPIRACY against what ever group it is you support.
Can't you get anything outside of the deluded world to support your views?
I see you still can't make any statement of your own about the links you post.
Unable to make any sense of their blather? It might be difficult for you but I think your just too wimpy. Stand up for the arguments you post.
Maybe you like the way Exxon works. If so come out and say it instead of posting lies you don't want to explain or are incapable of explaining.
Here is something that might warm your heart:
Johnson and Johnson want to argue that they have a corporate right of free speech to ignore FDA rule about what they can tell doctors ad patients so they foist on them drugs inappropriate for their conditions and better market drugs for kids that can give teenage boys large breasts in about 5% of cases.
Another case of bad government, huh?
Be careful of what you wish for!
Quote from: Mugwump on September 25, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
In truth, Boehner was likely the only one keeping those idiots in check....
This is so true. I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.
QuoteThis is so true. I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.
I think you are right Liz.
I would not be surprised to see this lead to the dissolution of the Republican Party.
The Tea Party takes over Republican control in the House and does more stupid things that pisses off everyone except themselves.
The normals in the party split either after they lose the next election, or out of self preservation, before then and create a new party distinct from both the Democrats and the Republicans. Similar to Lincoln's election before the Civil War.
The Tea Party would be freed up to do their stuff and freek everyone else out.
This could be good for the country in that they will expose themselves as what they really are and we will have the chance for shall have a chance for "a new birth of freedom" from their negative and bigoted ways.
I think I have figured out G:
Against a lot of stuff, apparently for nothing he is willing to stand up for.
Or maybe he just can't articulate the ideas.
Quote from: BillT on September 25, 2015, 04:11:02 PM
QuoteThis is so true. I feel sorry for Boehner but this will just make the Republican more radical which in turn will alienate the moderates which in turn will help the Democrats when it comes to Nov. 2016.
I think you are right Liz.
I would not be surprised to see this lead to the dissolution of the Republican Party.
The Tea Party takes over Republican control in the House and does more stupid things that pisses off everyone except themselves.
The normals in the party split either after they lose the next election, or out of self preservation, before then and create a new party distinct from both the Democrats and the Republicans. Similar to Lincoln's election before the Civil War.
The Tea Party would be freed up to do their stuff and freek everyone else out.
This could be good for the country in that they will expose themselves as what they really are and we will have the chance for shall have a chance for "a new birth of freedom" from their negative and bigoted ways.
I can see that happening, Bill. The more 'moderate' members of each party have a lot in common ....and they would be more in tune to what the people are really asking for in policies. Everyone won't agree among them for sure, but they are much more likely to share a dialogue of compromise that just doesn't exist now.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Borowitz-Boehner-Shocker1-690.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?House Speaker John Boehner announced that he would resign as Speaker and leave Congress in October, but said that he would continue repealing Obamacare from his home in Ohio.
Explaining his decision, Boehner told reporters, ?A lot of the Speaker?s job is administrative, which is time-consuming and tiring. In retirement, I?ll have more time for what I really love: repealing Obamacare.?
Boehner said that he plans to begin every day with a good breakfast, some exercise, and a vote to repeal Obamacare before lunch.
?No one knows how much time one is allotted on this planet,? Boehner, striking a somber tone, said. ?But if the Lord above grants me good health, I will repeal Obamacare thousands of times before my journey ends.?
This is well thought out, clearly written and worth the three or four minutes of your time it will take to read:
Pope Francis is scaring the hell out of conservatives. Here?s the real reason why
It isn't just that conservatives disagree with the pontiff's politics. He threatens something even more fundamental
(http://media.salon.com/2015/09/pope_francis9.jpg)
Republican legislators who attended Pope Francis? address to Congress were apparently relieved that he didn?t threaten them with fire and brimstone, and that he said that human activity is causing ?environmental deterioration,? rather than using the dreaded words ?climate change? or ?global warming.? What remains clear, however, is that they won?t listen to anyone about this subject ? not the overwhelming majority of scientists, not economists, not public policy analysts, and not the world?s most famous religious leader. As Marsha Blackburn, who ranks second on the House Energy Committee, declared, in connection with the pope?s address, ?I don?t think you will see me being persuaded.?
All of this raises an interesting question: Why exactly are the Republicans so determined to ignore reality? Why won?t they listen to anyone? The answer is actually simple: The reality of climate change demonstrates that progressives are right and they are wrong. Not just wrong about the effect of human activity on the environment, but wrong about their basic approach to the problems of the modern world.
Republican ideology is based on the idea of freedom for capitalists (another concern voiced by Pope Francis). For progressives, freedom involves the ability of ordinary people to express themselves, to choose their own level of religious observance and, increasingly, to receive the education and healthcare that they need to function in modern society. For conservatives, it means the ability of property owners and large corporations to use their economic power any way they wish, to determine exactly how they will treat their employees and what they will say to the consumers who depend on the products they produce.
Americans have rejected this approach for over 100 years, perhaps since the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt. We insist that the way large business enterprises deal with their employees and their customers must be regulated. More recently, we have insisted that the impact of these enterprises on the environment needs to be regulated as well, and that they cannot be permitted to pour poison into our waters and fumes into our air at will.
Recognizing the reality of climate change will necessarily lead to further forms of regulation. That reality emphasizes what physical and social scientists have come to recognize in recent years: that the most recent geological era (usually called the holocene) has ended, and that we are now in an entirely new situation, often described as the anthropocene ? the era of human domination. We now decide whether plant and animal species survive or go extinct, we control the drainage patterns of the lakes and rivers, we determine the extent of the forests and the grasslands. Now it?s become clear that we are decisively affecting the basic climate of the Earth ? the temperature of the air and of the seas, the patterns of atmospheric and oceanic currents, the size of the polar ice caps, the frequency of violent storms, and the general habitability our the only place where we will ever live. The indelible image that our conquest of space has given us ? that of our planet as a small, blue and white ball turning in a void ? carries an important message. Because of our technology, we truly hold the Earth in the palm of our hand.
All this means that conservatives are simply wrong. We?ve gone past the point where the large enterprises that determine the health of the economy, our working people, our environment, and now our planet, can be left to do what they wish. Some types of regulation are undoubtedly better than others. Policy analysts may be correct in their recent enthusiasm for more subtle approaches, which rely on inducement, rather more obvious ones that makes use of threats. But we must regulate, we must exercise control over the awesome powers that modern technology has placed in our hands.
People don?t like to admit that they are wrong, however. Children stamp their feet or burst into tears. Adults concoct bizarre conspiracy theories (tens of thousands of scientists, from all over the world, have joined together to perpetrate a hoax), engage in outright denials in the face of overwhelming evidence (Marsha Blackburn says that someone ? she won?t say who ? told her that the Earth is getting cooler) and insult anyone who tells them something they don?t want to hear (even if that person is the leader of a religion they?ve been touting as the truth for decades). But the conservatives are wrong ? wrong about climate change and wrong about their entire approach to governing our nation. It?s time for everyone else to stop listening to them.
Edward L. Rubin is Professor of Law and Political Science at Vanderbilt University. He is the author of ?The Heatstroke Line,? a new novel about the decline of the United States in a future where global warming has taken hold. For more see edwardrubin.com
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/26/pope_francis_is_scaring_the_hell_out_of_conservatives_heres_the_real_reason_why/
Makes sense to me!
The Pope is a wonderful man. He helped the liberals more than the conservatives in his address to congress. Y'all may think differently about him after his talk to the World Meeting of Families later today. He has said out loud that he is not a leftist.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 26, 2015, 02:29:08 PM
The Pope is a wonderful man. He helped the liberals more than the conservatives in his address to congress. Y'all may think differently about him after his talk to the World Meeting of Families later today. He has said out loud that he is not a leftist.
I have no issue with the subject of any of his speeches. He's not political in his talks. He's merely trying to tell us
all to wake up.
874
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
874
OH NO, GRAPHS !!!!....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
874
You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.
If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".
Quote from: BillT on September 27, 2015, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
874
You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.
If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".
Bill if you understood graphs you would see you truly don't need a Y-axis zero. While some do have it these are trending graphs. And all the trends with the current occupant in the White House are not good. I fully realize I am not proficient with how to lie with statistics. That's the liberal's forte. In fact it seems they wrote the book.
You can go research for yourself what a trending graph is.
Trend graphs are visually deceptive because they remove any sense of proportion. You could take any vanishingly small change in some number and make it look as big (or small) as you want.
Its something businesses do a lot to get your money (or politicians do to get your vote).
Guess you swallowed another one! Yum.
"How to lie with statistics" (http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728) is a classic little book (first published in 1954) about how people abuse statistics and the display of data and how to recognize it. Its short and cheap. I read it when I was in Jr. High school. You could probably get through it too.
Its mental self dense. something you could use. Seriously dude.
I guess this what happens when cherry picking alone needs an assist.
QuoteThat's the liberal's forte.
How come you are using one from one of you wingnut websites?
Does that mean you and your website are liberals? Hope not.
Quote from: BillT on September 27, 2015, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on September 27, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
874
You don't really know what these graphs mean do you graphic?
Else you could at least summarize them.
If you do understand them, than you probably realize that several of them are visually deceptive because they do not have a Y-axis zero, thus presenting a distorted view of reality.
Maybe you should read "How to Lie with Statistics".
Bill, which ones do you consider "visually deceptive"?
Two thirds of them, based on what I already said.
I am surprised you could not figure it out yourself.
I would also question data choices, considering the source and the poor legibility.
This is not worthy of much consideration.
Quote from: BillT on September 28, 2015, 11:31:11 AM
Two thirds of them, based on what I already said.
I am surprised you could not figure it out yourself.
I would also question data choices, considering the source and the poor legibility.
This is not worthy of much consideration.
Well Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.
So let's explain a couple of the graphs Bill.
Food stamps. While there were ups and downs on the dollars spent on the program since 1968 (give or take a year or two) It has, since 2007 skyrocketed. Up until that time it was below $30b and now stands at about $75b. Trend seems obvious and even if we had no 0 Y axis should be pretty self evident.
Federal Debt as a percentage of the GDP. In 1981 it was at $30% of GDP. Now it's over 100%.
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GFDEGDQ188S
Labor Force participation. Currently stands at 62.6%
Bill, that means that 37.4% of those that could be working have dropped off the roles and are not counted in unemployment.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
Median Income. Hey it's down. Quite a bit.
https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/
Home Ownership? Yep. It's down also
http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/qtr215/hown215.png
Rentals? Same
http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/qtr215/rvr215.png
Bill more data here.
http://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html
Federal debt? Well that should be a given that it has gone up.
But here is a real time clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
QuoteWell Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.
If you don't understand that you can just grab a bit of data and make a graph to show some particular point, your part of the problem.
As I said before I no longer think your sources are worth the time to go look at them. Your credibility is shot.
I have wasted enough time on that already.
I've got more important things to do. I'm taking out a different kind of garbage.
Quote from: BillT on September 28, 2015, 01:17:48 PM
QuoteWell Bill they are government sources and if you did not in fact trust the data you could verify it. And in all but one chart we have at least 6 years of data.
If you don't understand that you can just grab a bit of data and make a graph to show some particular point, your part of the problem.
As I said before I no longer think your sources are worth the time to go look at them. Your credibility is shot.
I have wasted enough time on that already.
I've got more important things to do. I'm taking out a different kind of garbage.
Bill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?
But like you said, you can just grab some data and make up graphs etc. Pretty much what they do with climate change.
Some more Kool Aid Bill?
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage. The middle class is disappearing. I work. I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle. It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.
The other stuff, I don't know about. I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on. It might explain some graph.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 02:40:40 PM
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage. The middle class is disappearing. I work. I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle. It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.
The other stuff, I don't know about. I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on. It might explain some graph.
I'm not sure 'G' has figured that out yet, Liz. ....and don't forget retired folks....the 'boomers' aren't all rich folks either, and while SS helps, but is not enough...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1LfT1MvzI
QuoteBill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?
Blah, blah, blah ...
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 02:40:40 PM
Food stamps and unemployment are up because minimum wage is not a living wage. The middle class is disappearing. I work. I used to be middle, now I'm lucky if I'm lower middle. It isn't the same for working folks now as it was in the 60's.
The other stuff, I don't know about. I know that Clinton lucked out being president when the tech boom was going on. It might explain some graph.
Liz, food stamps and unemployment are up do to the raging economy we have.
Yeah sure.
When we have a good economy we normally wind up with a shortage of good workers. When that has happened in the past minimum wage became irrelevant. Employers wanting good, talented workers would fight for them with their wallets. Good salaries. Signing bonuses. (Yes, it happens in the private sector not just sports) Benefits, etc. The only people that don't benefit as much are those with minimum wage skills. You don't want a minimum wage job? (well during a decent economy anyway) Don't come with minimum wage skills. Can't really afford to pay a person $15/hour to clean the shitter. In a good economy Liz, minimum wage jobs are there so that the kid on summer break from school can get a bit of experience in the working environment. And maybe some spending money for gas and a burger for his date.
Seattle increased their minimum. Employment did go up too. Man hours worked however remained unchanged. That's one reason I no longer trust government employment rates. Firing one full timer and hiring four part timers is a net 3 job increase yet no more hours are paid.
Quote from: BillT on September 28, 2015, 03:51:21 PM
QuoteBill, these are the GOVERNMENT's own graphs not mine. Not some "conservative's. These are the government who you seem to love and trust. But now you don't trust them. So which is it Bill? Do you trust the government data and charts or not? And if not then how can you trust them on anything else if they can grab some data and make up charts? How can you trust them on "Global Warming" Bill? Or do you pick and chose what you want to believe depending on whether or not it goes along with your brainwashing? Well Bill which is it? Do we trust government data or not?
Blah, blah, blah ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM
"G".....merely resorting to semantics isn't going to make you right....
The freak'n middle class is about gone.......you can't blame it directly on the economy or unemployment....the simple fact is wages had become static while the big boys made more and more money for themselves...one of the culprits is outsourcing...note the below article is from 2003 when Bush was in office......and it started way before that.....
In lieu of the typical wingnut bashing of the Liberal's......why haven't you offered a legitimate solution instead of just popping out Fox entertainment jive.....you bounce from one 'straw man' argument to another, never answering anything...or making a point.....what does the 'G' really think.....surely you have a thought of your own???.....or do you..??
A Statistic That's Missing: Jobs That Moved Overseas
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/us/a-statistic-that-s-missing-jobs-that-moved-overseas.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/us/a-statistic-that-s-missing-jobs-that-moved-overseas.html)
The job market finally showed some life in September, but not enough to sidetrack a growing debate over why employment has failed to rebound nearly two years after the last recession ended. The debate intrudes increasingly on election politics, but in all the heated back and forth, an essential statistic is missing: the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.
The Labor Department, in its numerous surveys of employers and employees, has never tried to calculate this trade-off. But the ''offshoring'' of work has become so noticeable lately that experts in the private sector are now trying to quantify it.
By these initial estimates, at least 15 percent of the 2.81 million jobs lost in America since the decline began have reappeared overseas. Productivity improvements at home -- sustaining output with fewer workers -- account for the great bulk of the job loss. But the estimates being made suggest that the work sent overseas has been enough to raise the unemployment rate by four-tenths of a percentage point or more, to the present 6.1 percent.
That leakage fuels the political debate. The Bush administration is pushing the Chinese to allow their currency to rise in value, thus increasing the dollar value of wages in that country, a deterrent to locating work abroad. The Democrats agree, but some also call for trade restrictions, and they attack Republicans for cutting from the budget funds to retrain and support laid-off workers in the United States.
While most of the lost jobs are in manufacturing or in telephone call centers, lately the work sent abroad has climbed way up the skills ladder to include workers like aeronautical engineers, software designers and stock analysts as China, Russia and India, with big stocks of educated workers, merge rapidly into the global labor market.
''All of a sudden you have a huge influx of skilled people; that is a very disruptive process,'' said Craig R. Barrett, chief executive of Intel, the computer chip manufacturer.
Intel itself has maintained a fairly steady 60 percent of its employees in the United States. But in the past year or so, it has added 1,000 software engineers in China and India, doing work that in the past might have been done by people hired in the United States. ''To be competitive, we have to move up the skill chain overseas,'' Mr. Barrett said.
The trade-off in jobs is not one for one. The work done here by one person often requires two or three less-efficient workers overseas. Even so, given the very low wages, the total saving for an American company can be as much 50 percent for each job shifted, even allowing for the extra cost of transportation, communication and other expenses that would not be needed if the work was done in the United States. That is the message of the nation's management consultants, who are encouraging their corporate clients to take advantage of the multiplying opportunities overseas.
'' 'Encourage' is a difficult way to put it,'' said Harold Sirkin, a senior vice president at the Boston Consulting Group. ''What we are basically saying is that if your competitors are doing this, you will be at a disadvantage if you don't do it too.''
The estimates of job loss from offshoring are all over the lot. They are back-of-the-envelope calculations at best, inferred from trade data and assumptions about the number of American workers needed to produce goods and services now coming from abroad, or no longer exported to a growing consumer market in, say, China.
Among economists and researchers, the high-end estimate comes from Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com, who calculates that 995,000 jobs have been lost overseas since the last recession began in March 2001. That is 35 percent of the total decline in employment since then. While most of the loss is in manufacturing, about 15 percent is among college-trained professionals.
Boeing, for example, employs engineers at a design center in Moscow, while having shrunk its engineering staff in Seattle. Morgan Stanley, the investment firm, is adding jobs in Bombay, but not in New York -- employing Indian engineers as well as analysts who collect corporate data and scrutinize balance sheets for stock market specialists in New York.
Near the low end of the job-loss estimates sit John McCarthy, research analyst at Forrester Research Inc., and Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insights. For them the loss is 500,000 to 600,000 jobs over the past 30 months, again mostly in manufacturing -- with Mr. McCarthy suggesting that the 600,000 might turn out to be 800,000. His research focuses more on the future: Starting in January 2000 and running through 2015, globalization of American production will have eliminated 3.3 million jobs at home, he estimates.
Some are trying niche estimates. Roshi Sood, a government analyst at the Gartner Group, for example, estimates roughly that state government cutbacks have pushed overseas the work of 3,400 people once employed in the United States, either on public payrolls or on the payrolls of companies that contract with state government.
In Indiana, for example, the Department of Workforce Development recently chose an Indian company, TCS America, to maintain and update its computer programs, using high-speed telecommunications to carry out the contract. The TCS bid was $8 million below those submitted by two American competitors, Mr. Sood said.
Now political groups are offering estimates. The Progressive Policy Institute, which is affiliated with the Democratic Party, will soon publish its calculation of manufacturing jobs shifted overseas since George W. Bush took office just before the recession began, said Rob Atkinson, a vice president. Not surprisingly, the estimate -- imputed from trade data -- is on the high side: 800,000 jobs lost to overseas production.
Bullshit. I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker. When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers. Their pay has not gone up! I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage. Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. It ain't right.
I knew that I should have ignored this thread. I tried and failed.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 28, 2015, 06:34:55 PM
Bullshit. I bet that you aren't a blue collar worker. When we have a shortage of good workers their pay should go up because their skills are valuable to employers. Their pay has not gone up! I know a ton of adults who work for minimum wage. Some work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. It ain't right.
I knew that I should have ignored this thread. I tried and failed.
I thought my user name would make it obvious what I do for a living.
I am a printer. I started in the business setting hot type in the 70's. Linotype, ludlow. Heidelbergs. C&PI ran them all. Offset presses also. In fact the current fish house was my press room. Had an AB Dick 360 with a T-Head on for two color stuff. I would get home from running a press or doing graphic design at work then come home and run another press.
When I started working on Co Op in school MW was $2/hour. I negotiated $3/hour. Stayed there for 8 years. Our competitors tried to hire me away. When I left then returned on vacation my old boss offer3ed me his half of the company to come back. Alas Liz money isn't everything and I hated NY. But I would have been able to retire at 48.
No Liz it isn't right. So why do you keep voting in those that make it hard for companies to hire here?
I'm glad Oreo and Ford moved to Mexico. No US government taxing them to death. No asinine thug union either.
Perhaps this thread needs to rest awhile.....??....
it's the same old back and forth anyway.....
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12189696_10156218695770554_7699977080863085419_n.jpg?oh=9e11e98782b8a3c726713611ce8b83ff&oe=56BE4225)
Sums up the National Enquirer, oops, I mean Fox News perfectly.
The whole Obamacare BS makes me chuckle every time I hear it used. Since the Affordable Care Act was modeled after Mitt Romney?s health care insurance reform laws passed in MA in 2006, shouldn't FOX own up and call it RomneyCare??? Or better yet, stop trying to spin it and muddy up the water and call it what it is..... the Affordable Care Act.
Dennis
Carson: Loss of Keystone Leaves U.S. With No Place to Store Grain
By Andy Borowitz
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Borowitz-Ben-Carson-Dire-Warning-320.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Presidential candidate Ben Carson has issued a dire warning that President Obama?s cancellation of the Keystone Pipeline has left the United States with ?virtually no place to store grain.?
Without the massive pipeline, Carson told Fox News, the nation?s network of silos is woefully inadequate ?to store the bounty of grain that we soweth.?
Carson said that as President, he would seek additional places to store grain, such as ?the hollowed-out heads on Mt. Rushmore.?
?A nation?s greatness is measured by its ability to store grain,? he said. ?I will return America to its former greatness.?
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12193357_10208396734302926_7988470905777465867_n.jpg?oh=b70bd8a4625947bc37a286a7c843ff58&oe=56B9D39A)
(http://aattp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ben-carson-knowlittle.jpg)
what's this untitled graph about.....data unlabeled..??
(http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com//index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7069.0;attach=2744;image)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12227117_10153323558156275_2464621890941408584_n.png?oh=e33cf102867bd6180d319079468f0235&oe=56B7C462)
LOLOLOLOLOL......
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12227646_958441067525094_1402069687789933086_n.jpg?oh=095dc87aa90068d2148f424382b2e73a&oe=56EA2689)
That's pretty funny!
But sad that it is appropriate these days.
Quote from: BillT on November 19, 2015, 11:10:12 PM
That's pretty funny!
I thought so too! I was thinking along the lines of T-shirts where you could just substitute the name of your least favorite band... LOL
Dennis
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12241348_992034517504403_8858311416467328377_n.jpg?oh=0afc83f8a64500621c4e4170ddafea75&oe=56ED5CAA)
Omg, that is so funny ;D
There's nothing funny about ISIS.
No not about ISIS, about the 72 virgins attacking them. I just found that hilarious.
I liked that too, B.
That part was funny.
DES MOINES (The Borowitz Report)?In a major foreign-policy announcement on Wednesday, the Republican Presidential candidate Ben Carson unveiled a detailed plan to Google Syria.
Speaking in Iowa, the retired neurosurgeon told an audience of supporters, ?Any responsible policy on Syria must begin with a fact-finding mission, and such a mission must begin with Googling.?
He said that ?Google holds the key? to many questions about Syria. ?Where is it? Who lives there? How many square miles is it? These are all things that have to be pinned down,? he said.
Carson, who leads several Republican Presidential polls, said that while his search for answers would start with Google, he would ?not rule out? seeking information at Wikipedia and beyond. ?No Web site should be taken off the table at this time,? he said.
In closing, he said that he had ?no plans? to Google Egypt, since he was already extremely well versed in that nation?s history.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think? Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 23, 2015, 02:00:56 PM
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think? Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.
LOL.....+1
Trump Tells Iowa Dairy Farmers He Has Cows 500 Times Bigger Than Theirs
(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5069/1/16x9/800.jpg)
ARNOLDS PARK, IA?Appearing at a campaign event in the early primary state, real estate mogul and presidential candidate Donald Trump told an assembled group of dairy farmers Monday that his cows were 500 times bigger than theirs. ?Your cows are small and scrawny, and you should be embarrassed to milk them,? said Trump, adding that each of his cows was the size of ?at least? a dozen Cadillacs and had ?udders that?ll make your head spin.? ?No one raises dairy cows as gigantic or successful as I do; everyone knows that. My cattle are winners, and you people would be lucky to have them graze here.? Chatting with patrons at a diner later in the day, Trump reportedly said the apple pie was a disgrace and that his pies were a mile wide, with a perfect crust that made all the losers jealous.
http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-tells-iowa-dairy-farmers-he-has-cows-500-tim-50792
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 23, 2015, 02:00:56 PM
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think? Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.
And the Dems? Two old people. One a liar and a thief the other a self proclaimed socialist who thinks all the worlds troubles are due to "global warming".
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on November 24, 2015, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 23, 2015, 02:00:56 PM
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) The Republicans sure have a strong group to choose from this year, don't you think? Just look...their two front runners are an ignoramus and a lunatic.
And the Dems? Two old people. One a liar and a thief the other a self proclaimed socialist who thinks all the worlds troubles are due to "global warming".
LOL....there's more than enough criticism to go around to all of them....
I see nothing evil in being a democratic socialist. I like Bernie's domestic policy. He's all about income fairness. Hillary has taken a whuppin' because she been so much in the public view. She knows a heck of a lot more that anybody running about foreign policy. I just wish she weren't such a hawk. I would take either of them over the ignoramus or lunatic.
Quote from: Mugwump on November 24, 2015, 09:30:52 AM
Trump Tells Iowa Dairy Farmers He Has Cows 500 Times Bigger Than Theirs
(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5069/1/16x9/800.jpg)
ARNOLDS PARK, IA?Appearing at a campaign event in the early primary state, real estate mogul and presidential candidate Donald Trump told an assembled group of dairy farmers Monday that his cows were 500 times bigger than theirs. ?Your cows are small and scrawny, and you should be embarrassed to milk them,? said Trump, adding that each of his cows was the size of ?at least? a dozen Cadillacs and had ?udders that?ll make your head spin.? ?No one raises dairy cows as gigantic or successful as I do; everyone knows that. My cattle are winners, and you people would be lucky to have them graze here.? Chatting with patrons at a diner later in the day, Trump reportedly said the apple pie was a disgrace and that his pies were a mile wide, with a perfect crust that made all the losers jealous.
http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-tells-iowa-dairy-farmers-he-has-cows-500-tim-50792
I'd like to see that pie....
Quote from: LizStreithorst on November 24, 2015, 03:49:02 PM
I see nothing evil in being a democratic socialist. I like Bernie's domestic policy. He's all about income fairness. Hillary has taken a whuppin' because she been so much in the public view. She knows a heck of a lot more that anybody running about foreign policy. I just wish she weren't such a hawk. I would take either of them over the ignoramus or lunatic.
What is fair about confiscating money from those that work their ass off and giving it to someone that won't work? Liz take half your monthly income and give it to someone. Maybe a homeless vet.
What is fair about corrupt congressmen sleazing undeserved tax cuts and government subsidies and giving it to some rich jerks that don't do real work? G take half your monthly income and give it to some rich guy. Or maybe an oil company.
If they are taking half of your money, you are simply not playing the game correctly. They take about 20% of my money and spend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....
Dennis
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/91cfe42d9923ec36de922f1c9cc835fd/tumblr_nybol36W0j1qa53wno1_640.jpg)
Quotespend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....
Its my opinion that the VA system should be front loaded with money to cover their people involved in their foreign military adventures before anyone is sent anywhere to be shot at, instead of hiding the expense of the whole thing (including direct military costs) like they did in Iraq.
Quote from: BillT on November 25, 2015, 01:04:12 PM
Quotespend it on foreign aid while the vet and elderly in this country do without.....
Its my opinion that the VA system should be front loaded with money to cover their people involved in their foreign military adventures before anyone is sent anywhere to be shot at, instead of hiding the expense of the whole thing (including direct military costs) like they did in Iraq.
Yup, I agree...they made the PO put up 10yrs of retirement $$$'s....why not have the Defense Dept put up advance funds for the VA...
Quote from: BillT on November 24, 2015, 11:47:26 PM
What is fair about corrupt congressmen sleazing undeserved tax cuts and government subsidies and giving it to some rich jerks that don't do real work? G take half your monthly income and give it to some rich guy. Or maybe an oil company.
I'm not a socialist Bill. Besides the government has beaten me to it.
I'm all for term limits.
Rich jerks like every sports star and actor and "singer". Everybody bellyaches about a CEO running a large corporation employing thousands making 10 mil a year yet no talent Beyonce, West, Kardashian,et al or most pro sports player make 50 mil and that's just fine.
My two problems with this are:
1) The disproportionate political influence lots of money brings to the super rich and now to large corporations (the flip side is the lack of influence of the not rich),
and
2) The changing of tax laws so they accumulate and ever increasing amount (with no apparent limit) of national wealth.
The Republican party seems to be strongly in favor of this situation.
Term limits would curtail much of number one.
Both parties are the problem in number two but alas you like to always blame the Republican. I can think of 36 companies Hussein "invested" our money in that went belly up or the taxpayer got the shaft.
You make the incorrect assumption that our wealth is like pie and everyone should get a piece. That is wrong. The US is more like a kitchen with an unlimited pantry. You have every opportunity to make your own pie.
Actually the Conservative wants to change our tax laws and lower tax rates. Especially for corporations. We are the highest. Lowering a companies tax burden would bring jobs back here to the US. It's been proven time and time again. Hell even Kennedy knew it.
(http://i.imgbox.com/C3rOU5at.jpg)
Could be the beginning of the end. These type incidents remind me of a book I read back in school, On The Beach by author Nevil Shute.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on November 26, 2015, 06:48:28 AM
Could be the beginning of the end. These type incidents remind me of a book I read back in school, On The Beach by author Nevil Shute.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%28novel%29)
Dennis
That's a great book....I, too, read it years ago....and a few times since......
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/4a00800a7ae8a74490ee299f470a041d/tumblr_nygzvaf4Yn1qd65vgo1_540.jpg)
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/danzcolorplus6526.jpg)
Quote from: Mugwump on November 29, 2015, 06:19:33 AM
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/4a00800a7ae8a74490ee299f470a041d/tumblr_nygzvaf4Yn1qd65vgo1_540.jpg)
Aw geez...good one ;D
What kills me is when the candidates are expected to answer "What would you do about Syria?" in a 30 second soundbite. Like Bernie said, Syria is a mess inside a mess inside a mess....
This is not good at all.........
........................
...........................
Turkey has begun a defacto blockade of Russian naval vessels, preventing transit through the Dardanelles and the Strait of Bosporus, between the Black Sea and Mediterranean.
According to the AIS tracking system for the movement of maritime vessels, only Turkish vessels are moving along the Bosphorus, and in the Dardanelles there is no movement of any shipping at all.
At the same time, both from the Black Sea, and from the Mediterranean Sea, there is a small cluster of ships under the Russian flag, just sitting and waiting. The image below shows the situation with the ships using the GPS transponder onboard each vessel:
In addition, shipping inside the Black Sea from Novorossiisk and Sevastopol in the direction of the Bosphorus, no Russian vessels are moving. This indirectly confirms the a CNN statement that Turkey may have blocked the movement of Russian ships on the Dardanelles and the Strait of Bosporus.
There is a Treaty specifically covering the use of these waterways by nations of the world. That Treaty is the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits.
It is a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus Straits and the Dardanelles and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention gives Turkey full control over the Straits and guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime. It restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. The terms of the convention have been the source of controversy over the years, most notably concerning the Soviet Union's military access to the Mediterranean Sea.
Signed on 20 July 1936 at the Montreux Palace in Switzerland, it permitted Turkey to remilitarise the Straits. It went into effect on 9 November 1936 and was registered in League of Nations Treaty Series on 11 December 1936. It is still in force today, with some amendments.
The Convention consists of 29 Articles, four annexes and one protocol. Articles 2?7 consider the passage of merchant ships. Articles 8?22 consider the passage of war vessels. The key principle of freedom of passage and navigation is stated in articles 1 and 2. Article 1 provides that "The High Contracting Parties recognize and affirm the principle of freedom of passage and navigation by sea in the Straits". Article 2 states that "In time of peace, merchant vessels shall enjoy complete freedom of passage and navigation in the Straits, by day and by night, under any flag with any kind of cargo."
The International Straits Commission was abolished, authorizing the full resumption of Turkish military control over the Straits and the refortification of the Dardanelles. Turkey was authorized to close the Straits to all foreign warships in wartime or when it was threatened by aggression; additionally, it was authorized to refuse transit from merchant ships belonging to countries at war with Turkey.
Turkey has now invoked its power, but has not publicly stated whether they are blocking Russian Naval Vessels because Turkey is "threatened with aggression" or whether Turkey considers itself to be "at war." Last week, Turkey shot down a Russian military jet over Syria and this has caused a major rift between the two nations.
This latest development of blockading Russian naval vessels is a massive and terrifyingly dangerous development. Blockading Russia and preventing its Black Sea fleet from traveling to the rest of the world, or back to its home port, is something that will not sit well with the Russians.
Earlier today, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the deployment of 150,000 Russian troops and equipment into Syria, but then ALSO ordered the deployment of 7,000 additional Russian Troops, tanks, rocket launchers and artillery, to the Russian Border of Turkey at Armenia, with orders to be "fully combat ready."
It is important to note two things:
1) Turkey is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as is the United States and most of Europe, AND;
2) Turkey took the first shot at Russia when they intentionally shot down a Russian jet last week.
It is important to remember these facts because, as a NATO member, Turkey can invoke Article 5 of the NATO Treaty which requires all NATO members to come to its defense if Turkey is "attacked." So if Russia decides to fight back against Turkey downing its military jet, the Turks might call NATO and claim they've been "attacked" thereby calling-up NATO forces to go to war against Russia.
It bears remembering, however, that Turkey shot first. Turkey was the nation which "attacked."
Before NATO and the world get dragged into a war between Russia and Turkey, the citizens of the world must be ready to remind our leaders that Turkey Shot First.
Why did the Turks shoot? Because Turkey has been allowing the terrorist group ISIS to sell the oil it has stolen from countries it is conquering. The oil is transported from the wells in countries where ISIS has seized power, is taken by truck to Turkey, and is then sold at cheap prices on the black market.
This black market selling results in over 1 Million dollars per DAY flowing into ISIS to keep it equipped and supplied for its ongoing terrorist activities. Only a fool would think that all this is going on through Turkey, without some Turkish officials having their hands out for money from the illegal oil sales. Put simply, Turkey appears to be in business with ISIS and Russia is harming that by attacking ISIS in Syria.
So Turkey shot down one of the Russian planes that was attacking ISIS. Russia is quite furious; with the Russian President stating the shoot down was "a stab in the back of Russia" and was carried out by "accomplices to terrorism."
It would be shocking if NATO were to defend Turkey under such circumstances because by its actions, Turkey is providing material support to the terrorist group ISIS. For NATO to defend that would make all of us accomplices to terrorism.
You can view REAL TIME SHIP INFO at the AIS Maritime web site, to see for yourselves that Russian ships are being held from transit.
The web site address is:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:27/centery:40/zoom:9 (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:27/centery:40/zoom:9)
https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/587 (https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/587)
It's a worrying situation indeed. But Russia invaded their air space. They warned the war plane many times before they shot it down. Russia deny's this, but they deny everything. So...in this case who was the aggressor? Russia says it's bombing ISIS in Syria but we hear that they are bombing all the factions that appose Assad.
All the world leaders are in Paris for the climate change summit. Thank God. You know as well as I do that there will be important side discussions. Nobody want's a 3rd world war. Surely they will find a way to calm down the Turkey/Russia stand off. I believe they will, but I'm an optimist.
Well, who knows how true the situation really is....but I found this too...
Nothing to worry about in the ME. Our biggest threat, bigger than all this and ISIS is after all Global Climate Change.
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/2668c7e21c6cb73ef4d30b19fd2addcd/tumblr_ny2nmjAgEU1qkml81o1_500.jpg)
The really sad part is that our illustrious statesmen have been so pathetic that someone like Trump is even a consideration. Our country and morals are simply for sale in D.C. And a half price sale at that..... that's all our money is worth anymore.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 06:42:38 PM
The really sad part is that our illustrious statesmen have been so pathetic that someone like Trump is even a consideration. Our country and morals are simply for sale in D.C. And a half price sale at that..... that's all our money is worth anymore.
Dennis
You hit the nail on the head there Dennis....Our country deserves better than games being played involving any of our present, or our future leaders.
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.
He's on NPR, too. I can't blame the press for covering him, He's tops in the polls. It would be dishonest if they didn't cover him.
Quote from: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 06:51:39 PM
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.
You're exactly right Jon, it's ALL the cable news outlets. I think Jon Stewart summed it up nicely when he called out CNN
https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE
Speaking of being called out, did you hear the President call out the congress tonight? That should be a weekly occurrence until they get their finger out and start doing the job they signed up to do.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 06:51:39 PM
I blame the various press corps for playing up sounds bites, and sensationalism, in the guise of news. Fox is not the only guilty party.
You're exactly right Jon, it's ALL the cable news outlets. I think Jon Stewart summed it up nicely when he called out CNN
Speaking of being called out, did you hear the President call out the congress tonight? That should be a weekly occurrence until they get their finger out and start doing the job they signed up to do.
Dennis
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.
At least now there is some movement on it. And impeachment proceedings may soon start. There are rumors anyway. Hopefully that will come to fruition.
8....you're dreaming....
Dennis, spot on.....
[/quote]
And impeachment proceedings may soon start. There are rumors anyway. Hopefully that will come to fruition.
[/quote]
You are living in a fantasy world ,snap out of it.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 07:45:15 PM
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.
Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan? I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).
Dennis
Quote from: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 07:52:36 PM
8....you're dreaming....
Dennis, spot on.....
I realize it's but a dream. The establishment Repubicans will never follow through on their promises. They disgust me. Hussein should have been impeached long ago.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 06, 2015, 07:52:36 PM
8....you're dreaming....
Dennis, spot on.....
I realize it's but a dream. The establishment Repubicans will never follow through on their promises. They disgust me. Hussein should have been impeached long ago.
They are so divided among themselves that they're eroding from the middle out.......save your breath, the President will serve out his term....then you can mutter about Hillary.
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 07:45:15 PM
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.
Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan? I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).
Dennis
You do realize that not one Republican voted for HusseinCare right? And 34 democrats voted against it.
Even Romney said his plan wouldn't work nationwide. It needed to be on a state by state basis.
And the largest insurer is pulling out of HusseinCare.
I can't speak to this "HusseinCare" you mention, whatever that is, but the Affordable Health Care Act is definitely a step in the right direction. We like to claim we are the greatest country, yet our health care is a joke when compared to the rest of the free world. The only area where our health care comes out on top is for being the most expensive for the least effectual care given.
Dennis
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 06, 2015, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 06, 2015, 07:45:15 PM
I sure wish they'd start doing what we elected them to do. They promised they'd get rid of ObamaCare. Yet here it still is.
Why would the same group that voted it in, turn right around and get rid of Mit Romney's plan? I think you're delusional, (that means having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions).
Dennis
You do realize that not one Republican voted for HusseinCare right? And 34 democrats voted against it.
Even Romney said his plan wouldn't work nationwide. It needed to be on a state by state basis.
And the largest insurer is pulling out of HusseinCare.
..and why are some of the biggest insurers considering backing out?....it's because they can't make enough profit, the greedy idiots...plus them all being Repubs.....they and their lobbyists want one last shot across the bow(Obama) before the Repubs get run out of congress......Pepubs, etc..refused to offer, or compromise, anything to tweak the bill at all.....Repub Governors fought it tooth and nail, knowing that doing so tossing higher expenses on their state's population .....and it's not about 'Health Care'....it's about hating a President.....
Many smaller insurance companies tried o form to take advantage of the ACA......too many failed because they weren't prepared, or had decent backing....when these started to fail ...the bigger companies were inundated with large enrollments....fact is...most these same folks left them because of their high rates....upon returning, the big insurers couldn't get those same rates back again....meaning..'Less profit'.....so they are screaming....
Well ain't that a bitch....LOL....trillions of dollars in business and the profits aren't enough...? If these same companies lobbyists get their buddy Repub's to get it repealed somehow.....the catastrophic costs they will incur absorbing everyone back will bury them.....but they must have a plan...sure ...their Repub friends in congress will vote them a bail out.....with our money...and the Insurer's will raise rates too.....the rich get richer, and the less well to do go without....folks will drop their insurance because they can't afford it.....thus putting the burden back on the public when they can't pay....it's a downward spiral that will effect hospitals, doctors, communities......healthcare will shrink for everyone.....except those nice rich folks that don't give a hoot about anything but a buck...
...and if they have their way.....social services will be nonexistent.......so I guess we're all expendable, huh...when we're all broke....we'll be disguarded..
(http://45.media.tumblr.com/0c8b1ca835d5170f92de7ef1aaef857a/tumblr_nyl494KsfR1rh844qo1_400.gif)
Great summation Jon.
Dennis
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.
Quote from: JR on December 07, 2015, 07:24:00 AM
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.
I just looked up Ohio ACA... huh...not sure what's happening in your case???
...........
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html
...................
5 Years Later: How the Affordable Care Act is Working for Ohio
The Affordable Care Act is working to make health care more affordable, accessible, and high quality for the people of Ohio.
Better Options
Making health care more affordable and accessible through the Health Insurance Marketplaces: Through the Marketplace, Ohioans had the option of signing up for quality health coverage at a price they could afford. Whether they visited the simpler, faster and more intuitive website at HealthCare.gov or contacted the call center, they found more choices and competitive prices.
In Ohio, 234,341 consumers selected or were automatically re-enrolled in quality, affordable health insurance coverage through the Marketplace as of Feb. 22. Nationwide, nearly 11.7 million consumers selected a plan or were automatically enrolled in Marketplace coverage.
Marketplace Signups and Tax Credits in Ohio:
84 percent of Ohio consumers who were signed up qualified for an average tax credit of $244 per month through the Marketplace.
41 percent of Ohio Marketplace enrollees obtained coverage for $100 or less after any applicable tax credits in 2015, and 82 percent had the option of doing so.
In Ohio, consumers could choose from 16 issuers in the Marketplace in 2015 ? up from 12 in 2014.
Ohio consumers could choose from an average of 54 health plans in their county for 2015 coverage ? up from 30 in 2014.
79,436 consumers in Ohio under the age of 35 are signed up for Marketplace coverage (34 percent of plan selections in the state). And 56,073 consumers 18 to 34 years of age (24 percent of all plan selections) are signed up for Marketplace coverage.
Ohio has received $1,000,000 in grants for research, planning, information technology development, and implementation of its Marketplace.
Open enrollment for 2015 coverage ended on Feb. 15, 2015. Open enrollment for 2016 coverage runs from November 1, 2015 to January 31, 2016. Consumers should visit HealthCare.gov to see if they qualify for a Special Enrollment Period because of a life change like marriage, having a baby or losing other coverage. Enrollment in Medicaid and the Children?s Health Insurance Program is open year round.
Reducing the number of uninsured Americans: Nationwide, since the Affordable Care Act?s coverage expansion began, about 16.4 million uninsured people have gained health insurance coverage - the largest reduction in the uninsured in four decades. And Gallup recently announced that the uninsured rate in Ohio in 2014 was 10.5 percent, down from 13.9 percent in 2013.
New coverage options for young adults: Under the health care law, if your plan covers children, you can now add or keep your children on your health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. Thanks to this provision, over 2.3 million young people who would otherwise have been uninsured have gained coverage nationwide.
Expanding Medicaid: Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, states have new opportunities to expand Medicaid coverage to individuals with family incomes at or below 133 percent of the federal poverty level (generally $32,253 for a family of four in 2015). This expansion includes non-elderly adults without dependent children, who have not previously been eligible for Medicaid in most states.
Thirty states plus DC have expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, including Ohio. And as of January 2015, 587,107 Ohioans have gained Medicaid or CHIP coverage since the beginning of the Health Insurance Marketplace first open enrollment period. Across the nation, approximately 11.2 million more Americans are now enrolled in Medicaid and CHIP.
Better Value
Providing better value for your premium dollar through the 80/20 Rule: Health insurance companies now have to spend at least 80 cents of your premium dollar on health care or improvements to care, rather than administrative costs like salaries or marketing, or they have to provide you a refund. This means that 35,361 Ohioans with private insurance coverage benefited from $1,216,544 in refunds from insurance companies, for an average refund of $69 per family because of the Affordable Care Act.
Scrutinizing unreasonable premium increases: In every State and for the first time under Federal law, insurance companies are required to publicly justify their actions if they want to raise rates by 10 percent or more. Ohio has received $5,091,507 under the new law to help fight unreasonable premium increases. Since implementing the law, the fraction of requests for insurance premium increases of 10 percent or more has dropped dramatically, from 75 percent to 14 percent nationally. To date, the rate review program has helped save Americans an estimated $1 billion.
Removing lifetime limits on health benefits: The law bans insurance companies from imposing lifetime dollar limits on health benefits ? freeing cancer patients and individuals suffering from other chronic diseases from having to worry about going without treatment because of their lifetime limits. Already, 4,154,000 people in Ohio, including 1,542,000 women and 1,100,000 children, are free from worrying about lifetime limits on coverage. The law also restricts the use of annual limits and bans them completely starting in 2014.
Ending discrimination for pre-existing conditions: As many as 5,053,131 non-elderly Ohioans have some type of pre-existing health condition, including 643,049 children. Today, health insurers can no longer deny coverage to anyone because of a pre-existing condition, like asthma or diabetes, under the health care law. And they can no longer charge women more because of their gender.
Expanding mental health and substance use disorder benefits: The Affordable Care Act increases also access to comprehensive coverage by requiring most health plans to cover ten essential health benefit categories, to include hospitalization, prescription drugs, maternity and newborn care, and mental health and substance use disorder services. The health care law expands mental health and substance use disorder benefits and federal parity protections for 62 million Americans nationwide, including 2,078,730 Ohioans.
Better Health
Covering preventive services with no deductible or co-pay: The health care law requires many insurance plans to provide coverage without cost sharing to enrollees for a variety of preventive health services, such as colonoscopy screening for colon cancer, Pap smears and mammograms for women, well-child visits, and flu shots for all children and adults.
Because of the Affordable Care Act, 76 million Americans with private health insurance gained preventive service coverage with no cost-sharing, including 2,814,000 in Ohio. And women can now get coverage without cost-sharing of even more preventive services they need. Of the 76 million Americans with expanded access to free preventive services, 29.7 million are women, including 1,079,000 in Ohio receiving expanded preventive services without cost-sharing.
Investing in the primary care workforce: As a result of historic investments through the health care law and the Recovery Act, the numbers of clinicians in the National Health Service Corps are near all-time highs with 9,200 Corps clinicians providing care to approximately 9.7 million people who live in rural, urban, and frontier communities. The National Health Service Corps repays educational loans and provides scholarships to primary care physicians, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, behavioral health providers, and other primary care providers who practice in areas of the country that have too few health care professionals to serve the people who live there. As of September 30, 2014, there were 121 Corps clinicians providing primary care services in Ohio, compared to 69 in 2008.
Increasing support for community health centers: The Affordable Care Act increases the funding available to community health centers nationwide. Health Center grantees in Ohio have received $217,319,926 under the health care law to offer a broader array of primary care services, extend their hours of operations, hire more providers, and renovate or build new clinical spaces.
Of the $217,319,926 awarded to Ohio, $6,308,121 was awarded to Ohio health centers to help enroll uninsured Americans in the Health Insurance Marketplace. Overall, since 2013, Ohio health centers used these funds to help more than 170,845 Ohio residents with enrollment into affordable health insurance coverage, with 23,230 of those being assisted between October and December 2014. These investments ensure that health centers continue to be a trusted resource for assistance with enrollment in the Marketplace, Medicaid and CHIP in Ohio.
In Ohio, 40 health centers operate 219 sites, providing preventive and primary health care services to 508,333 Ohioans, including 37,309 Latinos and 139,417 African Americans.
Preventing illness and promoting health: Through Fiscal Year 2013, Ohio has received $33,794,581 in grants from the Prevention and Public Health Fund created by the health care law. This fund was created to support effective policies in Ohio and nationwide, such as initiatives focused on tobacco cessation, obesity prevention, health coverage enrollment assistance, and increasing the primary care and public health workforce, so that all Americans can lead longer, more productive lives.
A Stronger Medicare Program
Making prescription drugs affordable for seniors: In Ohio, people with Medicare have saved nearly $750,550,535 on prescription drugs because of the Affordable Care Act. In 2014 alone, 239,721 individuals in Ohio saved over $235,018,764, or an average of $980 per beneficiary. In 2015, people with Medicare in the ?donut hole? received a 55 percent discount on covered brand name drugs and a 35 percent discount on generic drugs. And thanks to the health care law, coverage for both brand name and generic drugs will continue to increase over time until the coverage gap is closed. Nationally, over 9.4 million people with Medicare have saved over $15 billion on prescription drugs since the law?s enactment, for an average savings of $1,598 per beneficiary.
Covering preventive services with no deductible or co-pay : With no deductibles or co-pays, cost is no longer a barrier for seniors and people with disabilities who want to stay healthy by detecting and treating health problems early. In 2014 alone, an estimated 39 million people benefited from Medicare?s coverage of preventive services with no cost-sharing. In Ohio, 1,486,864 individuals with Medicare used one or more free preventive service in 2014.
Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.
HusseinCare, ObamaCare The Affordable Health Care Act.
What most people fail to realize is we have the best healthcare in the world bar none. What we lack is health INSURANCE. But the blame is not just with the health industry. Most Americans, unlike the European counterparts don't get their checkups etc. What happens then is a problem that could be solved with simple treatments blows up and leads to more money spent or, in a worse case death.
If you like your plan you can keep it. That's been proven to be a lie from the get go. Obama knew you couldn't before he ever said it.
We used to have a great insurance system. I used to have the BC/BS Million Dollar Mater Medical. It was affordable. Doctor's office visits I paid OOP. But they fees were a lot less then. Seems as though all the lawsuits have driven Malpractice to extreme heights. And many doctors now practice CYA medicine. My last primary was like that. My current one is a bit better though.
I'm not in the ACA. But my plan has changed dramatically and I have way more OOP expenses. So what happens then? I go less. So in the end if I do ever have a serious illness it will be found later and will be more expensive to treat. I'm not getting a new CPAP because of the DME deductible I now have. Thanks Obamacare.
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 07:49:50 AM
Quote from: JR on December 07, 2015, 07:24:00 AM
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.
Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.
They've recovered 27.8 billion since 1997. $17 - $57 billion was lost in fraud in 2012 alone.
Quote
For example, Medicare health care expenditures grew from $546.3 billion in 2011 to $572.5 billion in 2012,
the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Office of the Actuary said. That?s an increase of $26.2 billion
in Medicare spending over one year. (CMS said there was a large uptick in Medicare enrollment in 2012, largely
due to the baby boomers turning 65. Also, spending per enrollee grew by 0.7 percent.)
If you apply the frequently cited estimate that 3 to 10 percent of health care expenditures are lost to fraud to
the actual Medicare expenditures cited above, then an estimated $17 billion to $57 billion was lost due to
Medicare fraud in 2012. The 2013 actual Medicare expenditures haven?t been published by the Office of the
Actuary yet.
http://www.smpresource.org/Handler.ashx?Item_ID=9145EE0D-A2B8-4BD0-8533-84BF59B6DBD1
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:18:53 AM
HusseinCare, ObamaCare The Affordable Health Care Act.
What most people fail to realize is we have the best healthcare in the world bar none. What we lack is health INSURANCE. But the blame is not just with the health industry. Most Americans, unlike the European counterparts don't get their checkups etc. What happens then is a problem that could be solved with simple treatments blows up and leads to more money spent or, in a worse case death.
If you like your plan you can keep it. That's been proven to be a lie from the get go. Obama knew you couldn't before he ever said it.
We used to have a great insurance system. I used to have the BC/BS Million Dollar Mater Medical. It was affordable. Doctor's office visits I paid OOP. But they fees were a lot less then. Seems as though all the lawsuits have driven Malpractice to extreme heights. And many doctors now practice CYA medicine. My last primary was like that. My current one is a bit better though.
I'm not in the ACA. But my plan has changed dramatically and I have way more OOP expenses. So what happens then? I go less. So in the end if I do ever have a serious illness it will be found later and will be more expensive to treat. I'm not getting a new CPAP because of the DME deductible I now have. Thanks Obamacare.
So because a lot more folks can afford to get insurance is a bad thing?.....It's not the ACA that has driven up costs....it's greed....what I highlighted is the biggest problem, you're right.....we're idiots when it comes to having good insurance....and just plain not using it....the old 'pay me now or pay me more later' game has bitten us in the butt .....there's why rates go up...
We had supplemental insurance with our Medicare..........Mine just went up $20/mo....I asked why...they said it's because you're getting older.....wtf DOH
http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20140222/is-the-affordable-care-act-working-in-ohio-area-residents-sound-off
?You can give someone a policy and subsidize a premium, but if they have to spend $4,000 of a deductible before they can go to the doctor, then what we see is those are prohibitive,? she said. ?We have a lot of patients here who are chronically ill who need a few medications for high blood-pressure heart disease, diabetes, stuff like that. But to meet a deductible, or to have a significant cost share or copay for all those medications is still too high.?
ACA so great it's mandatory.
You couldn't afford insurance before ACA. Now you still can't afford insurance but they are fining you for not having it.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:25:26 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 07:49:50 AM
Quote from: JR on December 07, 2015, 07:24:00 AM
Please tell me how you can call it Affordable Health Act. It cost me 1400 a month for insurance. It hurts more ppl then it helps. I was paying 800 month before we got this great insurance. I have to pay it my meds cost 1600 a month with out it. My brother is on SSD gets 2100 a month. His spin down is 1280 a month. How is a man able to pay that over half of his SSD. So please tell me how the Affordable health care helps.
Cracking down on fraud and abuse: The health care law helps stop fraud with tougher screening procedures, stronger penalties, and new technology. More than $27.8 billion has been returned to the Medicare Trust Funds since 1997 because of these fraud enforcement efforts. For every dollar spent on health care-related fraud and abuse activities in the last three years the administration has recovered $7.70.
They've recovered 27.8 billion since 1997. $17 - $57 billion was lost in fraud in 2012 alone.
Quote
For example, Medicare health care expenditures grew from $546.3 billion in 2011 to $572.5 billion in 2012,
the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Office of the Actuary said. That?s an increase of $26.2 billion
in Medicare spending over one year. (CMS said there was a large uptick in Medicare enrollment in 2012, largely
due to the baby boomers turning 65. Also, spending per enrollee grew by 0.7 percent.)
If you apply the frequently cited estimate that 3 to 10 percent of health care expenditures are lost to fraud to
the actual Medicare expenditures cited above, then an estimated $17 billion to $57 billion was lost due to
Medicare fraud in 2012. The 2013 actual Medicare expenditures haven?t been published by the Office of the
Actuary yet.
http://www.smpresource.org/Handler.ashx?Item_ID=9145EE0D-A2B8-4BD0-8533-84BF59B6DBD1
Yep...Drs/clinics/hospitals are raping the system badly.....but thankfully most are getting caught.....but they've been doing this for years, and years...I agree, it's about time these folks pay the pauper. They should jail a few and set an example....fines don't work...
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 08:32:58 AM
http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20140222/is-the-affordable-care-act-working-in-ohio-area-residents-sound-off
?You can give someone a policy and subsidize a premium, but if they have to spend $4,000 of a deductible before they can go to the doctor, then what we see is those are prohibitive,? she said. ?We have a lot of patients here who are chronically ill who need a few medications for high blood-pressure heart disease, diabetes, stuff like that. But to meet a deductible, or to have a significant cost share or copay for all those medications is still too high.?
ACA so great it's mandatory.
You couldn't afford insurance before ACA. Now you still can't afford insurance but they are fining you for not having it.
That article is from back in early '14.......lots of adjustments have been made now....
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html (http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/facts-and-features/state-by-state/how-aca-is-working-for-ohio/index.html)
Its an arrogant conceit to say
Quotewe have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.
Not even close.
If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.
People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.
Quote from: BillT on December 07, 2015, 10:39:19 AM
Its an arrogant conceit to say Quotewe have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.
Not even close.
If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.
People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.
I'm not sure that it's ignorance at all.....each generation has mostly followed what was passed down...until the ACA really set things in motion, many things just were never questioned...but rather just accepted....like lemmings.....
Well I will tell you how this works for me. I went on line to to get insurance. Came up with 257 a month 5000 deductible. You would think that 8084 not so bad. But it will not pay for three of my meds that would cost me 1100. There is no generic forms of these meds. So now I am up to 21284. So now Im up to 26208 a year. Ppl say have your doc put you on something else there is nothing that works as well as these. If you have no money or very little how could you pay that 8 grand. My brother has worked all his life for that little 2100 a month an SSD wants more than half for a spin down. So tell me again how it helps. You can print all you want. But if it dont work that way in real life it dont me diddly squat.
Quote from: JR on December 07, 2015, 01:06:34 PM
Well I will tell you how this works for me. I went on line to to get insurance. Came up with 257 a month 5000 deductible. You would think that 8084 not so bad. But it will not pay for three of my meds that would cost me 1100. There is no generic forms of these meds. So now I am up to 21284. So now Im up to 26208 a year. Ppl say have your doc put you on something else there is nothing that works as well as these. If you have no money or very little how could you pay that 8 grand. My brother has worked all his life for that little 2100 a month an SSD wants more than half for a spin down. So tell me again how it helps. You can print all you want. But if it dont work that way in real life it dont me diddly squat.
Yep, you're getting the short end of the stick alright.....WOW....
Quote from: BillT on December 07, 2015, 10:39:19 AM
Its an arrogant conceit to say Quotewe have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.
Not even close.
Ahh, you beat me to it Bill LOL. Our poor friend is once again very misinformed, or perhaps as I mentioned earlier, delusional.
Dennis
My pre health care act options were $2000.00 a month in premiums with $6000.00 deductible. We were never refused insurance, I just couldn't cover the $30,000.00 outlay before the insurance kicked in..... so at 58 I'm broke, a lifetime of savings gone and house mortgaged to the hilt to cover medical expenses. But hey, I'm living the dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...... pursuit being the key word!
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 01:46:37 PM
My pre health care act options were $2000.00 a month in premiums with $6000.00 deductible. We were never refused insurance, I just couldn't cover the $30,000.00 outlay before the insurance kicked in..... so at 58 I'm broke, a lifetime of savings gone and house mortgaged to the hilt to cover medical expenses. But hey, I'm living the dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...... pursuit being the key word!
Dennis
ouch....
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: BillT on December 07, 2015, 10:39:19 AM
Its an arrogant conceit to say Quotewe have the best healthcare in the world bar none
.
Not even close.
If you are worried about cost, cut out the middle man and go to a single payer system like so other countries which have lower costs. This would remove the costs of the insurance companies.
People who argue against this must to be closing their eyes to math or are just too mentally subservient to their ideology to consider basic business facts.
I'm not sure that it's ignorance at all.....each generation has mostly followed what was passed down...until the ACA really set things in motion, many things just were never questioned...but rather just accepted....like lemmings.....
I really wish we had a clear cut example of how the government takes care of healthcare.
Hmmm. Wonder if we do.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/politics/va-inspector-general-report/
QuoteHundreds of thousands of veterans listed in the Department of Veterans Affairs enrollment system died before their applications for care were processed, according to a report issued Wednesday.
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
I must have missed something..... who here loves CNN? huh Maybe Jon Stewart LOLOLOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
I must have missed something..... who here loves CNN? huh Maybe Jon Stewart LOLOLOL
Dennis
LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..
http://www.jebbush.com (http://www.jebbush.com)
(http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/coke.jpg)
Dennis
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12316435_1017077278385326_7493899832531494110_n.jpg?oh=b96bb6ceadf2457516ce52c8dc26288a&oe=56E8EFA9)
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
I must have missed something..... who here loves CNN? huh Maybe Jon Stewart LOLOLOL
Dennis
LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..
And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 08:42:44 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
I must have missed something..... who here loves CNN? huh Maybe Jon Stewart LOLOLOL
Dennis
LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..
And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?
It's never been given a chance to succeed, or get the needed tweaks that all new things must have along the way.....Repub's have continuously blocked everything...and have only wasted tax payers money by repeated votes to repeal it....if that effort had gone into making it better, the ACA could be what we all need....medical insurance protection against the souring rates of the profit greedy insurance companies....I guess if you have money it is no big deal.....but the 99% of us that aren't rich need it....
Quote from: Mugwump on December 08, 2015, 09:25:12 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 08:42:44 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 07, 2015, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 07, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 07, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
May want to note that that is from your own beloved source. CNN
I must have missed something..... who here loves CNN? huh Maybe Jon Stewart LOLOLOL
Dennis
LOL.....not me either........and yep, VA has been in trouble for years.....and it sucks..
And yet you think they can run something that is infinitely larger?
It's never been given a chance to succeed, or get the needed tweaks that all new things must have along the way.....Repub's have continuously blocked everything...and have only wasted tax payers money by repeated votes to repeal it....if that effort had gone into making it better, the ACA could be what we all need....medical insurance protection against the souring rates of the profit greedy insurance companies....I guess if you have money it is no big deal.....but the 99% of us that aren't rich need it....
Jon, they've had how many years with handling the VA and that is abysmal at best. I would agree with you if there were no track record. Alas we have two.
BTW before ObamaScare I did have good coverage. Wasn't expensive either. Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done. And you can't only blame the republicans. Hussein had to postpone many parts of ObamaScare many times.
Also if it is so great why are many unions exempt? And why aren't our reps on it?
QuoteWhen the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Obamacare Thursday, unions praised the decision, but it wasn?t always that way. The biggest, most powerful unions in the U.S. opposed the law until they were granted special exemptions.
Might want to note Hussein has "tweaked" ObamaScare 56 times as of Sept 2015.
Quote from: Mugwump on December 08, 2015, 08:19:03 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12316435_1017077278385326_7493899832531494110_n.jpg?oh=b96bb6ceadf2457516ce52c8dc26288a&oe=56E8EFA9)
Might want to note that the last two democrat POTUS have never even been trained militarily in any way shape or form. One was a draft dodger. The other is a "community organizer" and failed at that.
Yet.....but neither made that boast either, huh?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 01:13:06 PM
..... Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done....
What a bunch of baloney. We already have everything we need to prevent frivolous lawsuits. Big corporations and insurance companies want "tort" reform just so they can screw us over and know what the limits are before hand. You should really broaden your horizons and get the big picture instead of the cable news rhetoric
https://youtu.be/pSmjmciAZNA
Dennis
Thanks for a good story, Dennis. The young interviewer is very good. Here's a link to the movie for free: http://www.hulu.com/watch/752136
Nice post, Dennis. Now to watch the movie!
Good luck. It had tons of ads and tons of buffering. They wanted me to buy their stupid service to make it better. I refuse.
Ha, Liz...you're right. I already opted out!
I don't know where you can watch it for free, but if you have Netflix, here's the link.....
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70167106?strkid=1091848097_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70167106 (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70167106?strkid=1091848097_0_0&trkid=222336&movieid=70167106)
Dennis
QuoteBill I believe our climate is changing. It has since the last ice age. I don't believe however it is man made.
So why are you dissing the information in support of climate change????
QuoteJust look at what Etna is letting loose.
Volcanoes can produce a lot of pollution when they erupt. Sometimes, if volcanoes emit a lot of sulphuric gasses they can lead to acid rain. The Skaft? volcano in Iceland erupted in 1793, releasing lots of toxic gasses that killed a lot of people, as well as poisoning the land so that nothing could grow. About 50% of livestock on Iceland died, and 25% of the population died in the resulting famine. The effects were felt all over Western Europe.
The ash and dust the volcanoes can emit can also have severe environmental effects. The dust clouds from large volcanoes can partially block out the sun, reducing temperatures and stopping crop growth. For example, when Tambora erupted in 1815, we had what is called the year without summer, because of all the volcanic dust blocking the sun?s rays. Crops failed all over the world, leading to famines.
Also, volcanoes can emit lots of CO2.
As I discussed previously, there are normal volcanoes like those you listed that produce large amounts of gases etc., but they are completely dwarfed by mega or super eruptions.
Eruption size is usually in cubic miles or kilometers of material spewed out:
Mt. St. Helenes: 0.24 cu. miles
Tambora: 36 cu. miles
Yosemite (lg'est): 600 cu. miles
Siberian traps: 239,913 to 479,826 cu. miles
Indian traps: 512,000 cu. miles
The big eruptions have been shown to had geologically significant effects on the environment. The smaller eruptions, much less so. Probably like comparing a dangerous gas leak in your house to a fart.
Quote from: BillT on December 08, 2015, 08:50:13 PM
QuoteBill I believe our climate is changing. It has since the last ice age. I don't believe however it is man made.
So why are you dissing the information in support of climate change????
QuoteJust look at what Etna is letting loose.
Volcanoes can produce a lot of pollution when they erupt. Sometimes, if volcanoes emit a lot of sulphuric gasses they can lead to acid rain. The Skaft? volcano in Iceland erupted in 1793, releasing lots of toxic gasses that killed a lot of people, as well as poisoning the land so that nothing could grow. About 50% of livestock on Iceland died, and 25% of the population died in the resulting famine. The effects were felt all over Western Europe.
The ash and dust the volcanoes can emit can also have severe environmental effects. The dust clouds from large volcanoes can partially block out the sun, reducing temperatures and stopping crop growth. For example, when Tambora erupted in 1815, we had what is called the year without summer, because of all the volcanic dust blocking the sun?s rays. Crops failed all over the world, leading to famines.
Also, volcanoes can emit lots of CO2.
As I discussed previously, there are normal volcanoes like those you listed that produce large amounts of gases etc., but they are completely dwarfed by mega or super eruptions.
Eruption size is usually in cubic miles or kilometers of material spewed out:
Mt. St. Helenes: 0.24 cu. miles
Tambora: 36 cu. miles
Yosemite (lg'est): 600 cu. miles
Siberian traps: 239,913 to 479,826 cu. miles
Indian traps: 512,000 cu. miles
The big eruptions have been shown to had geologically significant effects on the environment. The smaller eruptions, much less so. Probably like comparing a dangerous gas leak in your house to a fart.
Bill, where the problem comes in is where it is coming from. Man made GCC is simply a money machine and global wealth redistribution.
Is our planet warming? More than likely.
Is it now going through a leveling off? They say so.
Will it cool again? More than likely. Some scientists say it is already occurring.
Is it because of man? No.
Will a ton of money be redistributed "fixing" GCC? Hell yes!
Will China really abide by any clean legislation? Yeah if you believe they will I have this bridge I am selling. Even has a toll both on both ends. You'll make your investment back in no time at all.
If you believe that these GW "scientists", Al Gore and libs like him aren't making mega bucks from "carbon offsets" and other such nonsense well, let's really discuss that bridge you need to buy from me.
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 08, 2015, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 01:13:06 PM
..... Part of the ACA problem is they still haven't gotten tort reform done....
What a bunch of baloney. We already have everything we need to prevent frivolous lawsuits. Big corporations and insurance companies want "tort" reform just so they can screw us over and know what the limits are before hand. You should really broaden your horizons and get the big picture instead of the cable news rhetoric
Dennis
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.
You may want to stop watching MSNBS and broaden your own horizons. For the record I really don't watch much cable news. Most of my TV is cartoons my 6 year old puts on.
http://www.commongood.org/blog/entry/infographic-lawsuits-in-america
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/10/05/how-many-lawsuits-are-there-in-the-us--amp-what-are-they-for-an-amazing-overview.htm
QuoteBill, where the problem comes in is where it is coming from. Man made GCC is simply a money machine and global wealth redistribution.
True. Exxon (among others) is producing global warming to increase their money!
QuoteIs our planet warming? More than likely.
True.
QuoteIs it now going through a leveling off? They say so.
False. Only in the Fox News/Forbes bubble universe! It will pop sometime.
QuoteWill it cool again? More than likely. Some scientists say it is already occurring.
Those being paid off by corporate employers!
QuoteIs it because of man? No.
Wrong again and in opposition to the vast majority of scientiists!
QuoteWill a ton of money be redistributed "fixing" GCC? Hell yes!
Hopefully to clean energy producers, but distribution happens anytime money is exchanged so not much an argument as presented.
QuoteWill China really abide by any clean legislation? Yeah if you believe they will I have this bridge I am selling. Even has a toll both on both ends. You'll make your investment back in no time at all.
Probably wrong. Actually I think they might be doing more about it than we are WRT developing solar power and other things.
Quote
If you believe that these GW "scientists", Al Gore and libs like him aren't making mega bucks from "carbon offsets" and other such nonsense well, let's really discuss that bridge you need to buy from me.
You should include some references when you go around slandering people. You sound somewhat like Trump now.
Also:
Quotethat moron Einstein
What is the point of this?
Sounds like straight out trolling.
Poor old Einstein, originated quantum physics and invented relativity, but can't get no right wing respect.
My. My. My.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:58:15 PM
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.
Guessing you didn't bother to fact check..... again huh
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:58:15 PM
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.
Guessing you didn't bother to fact check..... again huh
Dennis
Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)
Nice find Jon. One of the best things about the Internet, you can still find the truth if you are so inclined.
Dennis
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 06:19:57 AM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:58:15 PM
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.
Guessing you didn't bother to fact check..... again huh
Dennis
Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)
And now we can't get a good hot cup of coffee anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 08:28:31 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 06:19:57 AM
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 09, 2015, 05:59:22 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 08, 2015, 09:58:15 PM
Frivolous lawsuits are pretty common. And juries have awarded millions. Just look at the BS lawsuit where the lady sued Mikkie D's when she burned herself putting hot coffee between her legs and spilled it.
Guessing you didn't bother to fact check..... again huh
Dennis
Good article on this....
http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/ (http://priceonomics.com/how-a-lawsuit-over-hot-coffee-helped-erode-the-7th/)
And now we can't get a good hot cup of coffee anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Sure ya can....one of our local gas stations has some really good coffee...always fresh and hot.....as for the coffee chain outlets....naw...can't stand 'yuppie' coffee....
(http://pfc.prepareforchange.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/1234rothchildgovernment.jpg)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 10:58:23 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)
But they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 10:58:23 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11227640_1018027638290290_242130572013188754_n.jpg?oh=0f501846a9c5180ef36f28bd93b6e424&oe=56E6A54D)
Well I'd rather fight them over there than here. But hey, if you'd rather have another 9-11 here so be it.
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...
Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......
It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 11:56:58 AM
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...
Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......
It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....
Jeb's brother served. So did his father #41. He is also the last living former President who is a veteran of World War II.
Clinton never served. Can't find as his family did either. His father actually died a few months before he was born. Name is William Jefferson Blythe III. His stepfather was an abusive drunk. Funny how he took his step's last name at 15 even though he would abuse his mother.
And is their any doubt about Hussein or his family never serving?
John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bill Clinton and Barry Soetoro
QuoteJeb's brother served.
Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 02:12:12 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 09, 2015, 11:56:58 AM
I don't think that's what the meme implies......it just states a fact about no prior military service at all...
Lots of Presidents didn't serve in the military....either because they got out of it with a deferment, or merely grew up in more peaceful times....these guys 'dodged a bullet' (pun intended) somehow too......
It's likely that none of there families have ever served either.....
Jeb's brother served. So did his father #41. He is also the last living former President who is a veteran of World War II.
Clinton never served. Can't find as his family did either. His father actually died a few months before he was born. Name is William Jefferson Blythe III. His stepfather was an abusive drunk. Funny how he took his step's last name at 15 even though he would abuse his mother.
And is their any doubt about Hussein or his family never serving?
John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bill Clinton and Barry Soetoro
...."and a partridge in a pear tree..."
Quote from: BillT on December 09, 2015, 02:24:36 PM
QuoteJeb's brother served.
Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?
t's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1070518/posts
Fake? He did get an honorable discharge. And didn't Dan Rather get into some hot water about falsifying documents on W's military service? Why yes, I believe he did back in 04.
Going back to Obamacare.
Seems the CBO that is the "non partisan" Congressional Budget Office states that employment will decline starting in 2017 because of the ACA. Love how that is working out for us. Don't you? Another Obama failure.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: BillT on December 09, 2015, 02:24:36 PM
QuoteJeb's brother served.
Fake served.
Its kind of sad when a bunch of clowns can make a fool of you over and over?
t's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of 1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1070518/posts
Fake? He did get an honorable discharge. And didn't Dan Rather get into some hot water about falsifying documents on W's military service? Why yes, I believe he did back in 04.
'expedited discharge'.....LOL...they just wanted to get rid of him...
Whether they wanted to get rid of him or not is irrelevant. He did get the required amount of hours. And Dan Rather did have forged documents. His "retirement" was more than likely hastened by it anyway.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 03:29:22 PM
Whether they wanted to get rid of him or not is irrelevant. He did get the required amount of hours. And Dan Rather did have forged documents. His "retirement" was more than likely hastened by it anyway.
..ahem, actually his fulfillment of hours is in dispute....he missed over a year of required flight hours, duty, while he was off helping an Alabama senator run his campaign......I believe the word would be 'forgave' his required hours to get his butt outta there....LOL
""(doc5.gif ) - Air Force HQ Denver disallows transfer (date unclear)
*Lt. Col. Killian Memorandum for Record, 8/1/72: "...suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (Flight) as ordered...Officer has made no attempt to meet his training certification or flight physical."
(grounded.gif ) - Bush's suspension from flying; "Reason for Suspension" Failure to accomplish annual medical examination." (9/29/72; confirming verbal orders of 8/1/72) (James Bath is also suspended on this same document.)
(doc2.gif ) - Bush request for temporary transfer to 187th Tac Recon Grp. in AL (Bush letter, 9/5/72)
(doc11.gif )- AL ANG HQ approval for Bush to train with the 187th. (9/15 and 9/29, 1972)
(doc4.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 1..."Not Observed" in all categories. (5/2/73)
(doc9.gif ) - Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 2..."Not Observed at this unit during the period of this report." (5/2/73)
(doc17.gif ) - Special Order from Department of the Air Force, Ellington AFB, ordering Bush to perform 9 days duty in May/June 1973. (5/1/73)
*Memo from Killian, recipient not noted, 6/24/73 (see p. 6): "I got a call from your office today concerning the evaluation of 1st Lt. Bush...Neither Lt. Col Harris or I feel we can rate 1st Lt. Bush since he was not training with 111th F.I.S. since April 1972..."
(doc12.gif )- USAF requests more information on Officer Effectiveness Report; "This Officer should have been reassigned in May 1972 since he is no longer training in his AFSC or with his unit of assignment." (6/29/73)
*Killian Memo to File, 8/18/73: "
Harris gave me a message from Grp today regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate. Austin is not happy today either."(doc28.gif )- Major Martin replies; "Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report not available for administrative reasons." (11/12/73)http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp (http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp)
Wasn't much of that the Killian documents that were forged? AKA Rathergate?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 09, 2015, 03:47:23 PM
Wasn't much of that the Killian documents that were forged? AKA Rathergate?
I wouldn't know, but the remark about them 'sugar coating' was likely close......He got out, got the honorable, and the rest is lore......
https://youtu.be/N7qkQewyubs
Dennis
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.
But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.
Didn't really get elected.
Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.
Cheney made the important decisions.
One of the Absolute Worst.
Quote from: BillT on December 09, 2015, 05:44:02 PM
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.
But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.
Didn't really get elected.
Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.
Cheney made the important decisions.
One of the Absolute Worst.
Bill, just because you don't like W he did serve in the service and was honorably discharged. The Killian letters were found to be forgeries.
They recounted the ballots multiple times.They looked at hanging chads. They looked at ballots that mosquitoes dimple on Gore's side. They looked at the voter's
"intent" on ballots with an impression on Gore's side. And even with all the recounts with liberal voters too stupid to fully punch out a chad W still had more votes. Not many but still more. So if they kept recounting and recounting and out of all those recounts Gore had more one time should that have been the official count?
Seems to me Bill you just don't like fact that doesn't agree with your opinion. And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to your own facts.
Now this started because Jon doubted that any of the candidates had family that served. Jeb does. That is a fact. W was honorably discharge. That too is a fact.
And getting back to the original meme. So what? None of the democrat candidates have served either. And Sanders is a draft dodger too boot.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 10, 2015, 08:46:05 AM
Quote from: BillT on December 09, 2015, 05:44:02 PM
Like I said, fake served. It wasn't serious and it was the way it was because of his connections.
But he didn't stop there he was a fake president too.
Didn't really get elected.
Had no interest in what was really going on. Much as current right wingers these days have no interest in any factual information if it doesn't agree with their preconceptions.
Cheney made the important decisions.
One of the Absolute Worst.
Bill, just because you don't like W he did serve in the service and was honorably discharged. The Killian letters were found to be forgeries.
They recounted the ballots multiple times.They looked at hanging chads. They looked at ballots that mosquitoes dimple on Gore's side. They looked at the voter's
"intent" on ballots with an impression on Gore's side. And even with all the recounts with liberal voters too stupid to fully punch out a chad W still had more votes. Not many but still more. So if they kept recounting and recounting and out of all those recounts Gore had more one time should that have been the official count?
Seems to me Bill you just don't like fact that doesn't agree with your opinion. And W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to your own facts.
Now this started because Jon doubted that any of the candidates had family that served. Jeb does. That is a fact. W was honorably discharge. That too is a fact.
And getting back to the original meme. So what? None of the democrat candidates have served either. And Sanders is a draft dodger too boot.
So you best gripe is "oh, you're a bigger one?"....the meme isn't a comparison...it's just a factual statement. Jeb's Dad served....but as for 'W'...spare me...'W'....got a pass with his 'honorable'......and you dang well know it too...quite being so stubborn about it.
As to him being a great President....LOLOLOLOL....you mean Cheney's puppet actually did anything on his own....LOLOLOLOL....maybe it's your living so close to 'Disneyland' that affects your rational thinking....you know 'Tinker Bell' pixie dust syndrome....Bush left a middle east mess that is still messed up....and it's not Obama's fault either.....so don't even bother to go there....
Of course this is the original statement of yours that I was responding to until Bill led us off on a tangential road.
QuoteBut they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
I gave you one of the candidates that did have family that served although it is not a son or a daughter.
Jon, there is no proof he got a pass. The letters were deemed a forgery.
I never said W was a great president. I said he was a better president than the current occupant.
QuoteAnd W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
Now you want to get into the ME? Hussein said repeatedly we shouldn't be in Iraq. Afghanistan was where we needed to be.
QuoteSenator Obama says America must shift its defense resources from Iraq to Afghanistan, which he sees as ground zero for any war on terrorism. He says he would remove one or two brigades a month from Iraq, and get all combat troops out within 16 months. ?The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on Al Qaeda,? he said last year. He also promised a diplomatic initiative with regional allies, and even foes ? read Iran ? to seek a more stable Iraq.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/iraq.html
Well we did get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. And we see how well that's worked out. Now instead of Afghanistan a mess and Iraqis voting in their own elections and holding up the purple thumb the entire ME is worse because of Obama's ineptitude.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on December 10, 2015, 10:42:37 AM
Of course this is the original statement of yours that I was responding to until Bill led us off on a tangential road.
QuoteBut they reap the benefits of this great country. I wonder if they have sons or daughters that have served.
I gave you one of the candidates that did have family that served although it is not a son or a daughter.
Jon, there is no proof he got a pass. The letters were deemed a forgery.
I never said W was a great president. I said he was a better president than the current occupant.
QuoteAnd W was a better POTUS than that which currently occupies the People's House.
Now you want to get into the ME? Hussein said repeatedly we shouldn't be in Iraq. Afghanistan was where we needed to be.
QuoteSenator Obama says America must shift its defense resources from Iraq to Afghanistan, which he sees as ground zero for any war on terrorism. He says he would remove one or two brigades a month from Iraq, and get all combat troops out within 16 months. ?The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on Al Qaeda,? he said last year. He also promised a diplomatic initiative with regional allies, and even foes ? read Iran ? to seek a more stable Iraq.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/issues/iraq.html
Well we did get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. And we see how well that's worked out. Now instead of Afghanistan a mess and Iraqis voting in their own elections and holding up the purple thumb the entire ME is worse because of Obama's ineptitude.
President Obama may have boosted the troop levels in Afghanistan.....however, he didn't put us there....that was 'W'.(but you knew that right?).....President Obama has reduced the troop levels actually leading to a soon complete withdrawal.....putting the blame on him is a lame argument....'W'(read Cheney) was the lame brain that got us into those hell holes...
"Main article: 2001 in Afghanistan
October 7: (9 p.m. local time): the United States, supported by Britain, begins its attack on Afghanistan, launching bombs and cruise missiles against Taliban military and communications facilities and suspected terrorist training camps. Kabul, Kandahar, and Herat were hit.
October 9: A cruise missile kills four U.N. demining employees and injured four others in a building several miles east of Kabul.
October 26: Abdul Haq killed.
November 6 - Zari, Keshendeh and Aq-Kupruk fall to the Northern Alliance[1]
November 8 - Pakistan, being the only nation that still had diplomatic ties to the Taliban, asked Afghanistan's rulers to close their consulate in the city of Karachi.
November 9: Battle of Mazari Sharif.
November 10 - The Taliban and Northern Alliance fighters both claimed that the strategic northern Afghan city of Mazari Sharif was taken by Northern Alliance fighters.
November 11: Journalists Pierre Billaud, Johanne Sutton, and Volker Handloik are ambushed and killed.
November 12 - Taliban forces abandon Kabul ahead of advancing Northern Alliance troops.
2001 uprising in Herat.
November 14 - Northern Alliance fighters took over Kabul, the Afghan capital, and then controlled virtually all the north of Afghanistan.
November 16: Mohammed Atef, the military chief of al-Qaeda, killed in a US airstrike.
November 19: Four foreign journalists - Harry Burton, Maria Grazia Cutuli, Azizullah Haidari, and Julio Fuentes ? were ambushed and killed.
November 25 ? Northern Alliance gained control of Kunduz, the last Taliban stronghold in Northern Afghanistan, but only after Pakistani aircraft rescue several thousand Taliban and Al-Qaeda fighters and their military advisers.[2][3] The Taliban then controlled less than 25% of the country, mainly around Kandahar in the south.
U.S. Marines landed in force by helicopter at Camp Rhino south of Kandahar and began preparing it for fixed wing aircraft. They also occupied the main road between Kandahar and Pakistan.
Battle of Qala-i-Jangi. Forces loyal to bin Laden smuggled weapons into their prison near Mazar i Sharif after surrendering at Kunduz. They attacked the Northern Alliance guards and storm an armory. U.S. Special Forces call in air attacks. Hundreds of prisoners are killed as well as 40 Alliance fighters and one U.S. CIA operative, Johnny Michael Spann. Spann becomes the first U.S. and Coalition combat casualty. A young American named John Walker Lindh is found in the midst of the rebellion and extradited to the US on terrorism charges.
December 6: Kandahar falls.
December: The Battle of Tora Bora against Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters; Osama bin Laden reportedly escapes during this battle.
December: The Dasht-i-Leili massacre, where hundreds of Taliban were allegedly suffocated to death while being transported in metal containers.
December: The Bonn Agreement establishes the postwar system of government for Afghanistan, and establishes the International Security Assistance Force.
December 21: The interim Afghan government is sworn in.
Here read up on it....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29
..interesting...
"Connecticut is taking steps to block people who are banned from flying on commercial airliners from obtaining firearms permits, the state's Democratic governor, Dannel Malloy said on Thursday.
"If you cannot fly due to being on a watch list, you shouldn't be able to purchase a firearm," Malloy said. "Since Congress so far as failed to act, we well."
What a refreshing change..... someone doing something fort the betterment of the country.
Dennis
LOL......that's wild......LOL.... w!w
?Don?t mess with Shorty?: Mexican cartel boss threatens ISIS over drug trade
The runaway leader of Mexico?s deadliest drug cartel, Joaqu?n ?El Chapo? Guzm?n, has reportedly sent a threatening letter to Islamic State following the destruction of one of his cartel?s shipments.
Trends
Islamic State
El Chapo (aka ?Shorty?) delivered the threat to Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi via an encrypted email which was later leaked by cartelblog.com.
The Mexican drug baron, who runs the notorious Sinaloa cartel, made it clear IS had ?made a mistake? by destroying the cartel?s drug shipment.
Read more
Screenshot from RT video RT team relives infamous El Chapo drug lord?s tunnel escape from prison (VIDEO)
"You [IS] are not soldiers,? El Chapo wrote, according to the unnamed blogger cited by cartelblog.com. ?My men will destroy you?? he promised Al Baghdadi.
?Your god cannot save you from the true terror that my men will levy at you if you continue to impact my operation,? it said.
El Chapo became Mexico's top drug lord in 2003. He was believed in 2011 to have surpassed infamous ?cocaine king? Pablo Escobar, with the US Drug Enforcement Administration calling El Chapo the biggest drug tycoon ever.
El Chapo is wanted by Mexico, Interpol and the US, which has offered a $5 million reward for information leading to his capture.
Guzman was first arrested in 1993 and spent a decade in a maximum-security prison in Mexico before escaping. He spent 13 years on the run before his recapture in 2014.
(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5221/0/16x9/800.jpg)
WICHITA, KS?Chuckling and shaking their heads as they described their annual family gift exchange to reporters, Koch Industries executives Charles and David Koch confirmed Wednesday they had unwittingly gotten each other the same election for Christmas this year.
The two brothers and energy industry magnates, who for decades have gathered to share a holiday meal and open presents next to the Christmas tree in Charles? Wichita home, admitted they were a bit embarrassed to learn they had each given the other U.S. Rep. Lee Zeldin?s congressional seat, but said they ultimately shrugged off the coincidence.
?Now that I think about it, I can?t believe this has never happened before. It was probably bound to sooner or later. I guess we just know each other too well!?
?When we realized we both bought New York?s 1st District, we just looked at each other and laughed,? said Charles Koch, who acknowledged that he and David have pretty similar tastes. ?Now that I think about it, I can?t believe this has never happened before. It was probably bound to sooner or later. I guess we just know each other too well!?
?At least it?s something we can enjoy using together,? he added.
David Koch explained that he had hoped the present would be a special surprise for Charles, noting that he had taken care to be discreet by telling his brother he was ?just heading out to another fundraiser at Lincoln Center? when he was in fact on his way to go purchase the outcome of the election in the eastern Long Island congressional district. In addition, he was reportedly careful not to take any calls from the Zeldin 2016 campaign team while he and Charles were out together at dinner, the ballet, or Cato Institute symposiums.
?A few months ago, we were watching the news, and when one of the pundits on TV mentioned Zeldin?s reelection bid, Charles? whole face just lit up,? said David Koch, who later admitted he had purchased the district partly because he knew he would want to borrow it for himself from time to time. ?Well, it seems like my brother and I both had the same idea about limiting the petroleum industry?s liability for toxic spills and ensuring taxpayers shoulder the majority of cleanup costs. That?s just so us, you know??
?After he got me Wisconsin?s right-to-work bill last year, I knew I had to get him something really good this Christmas,? David added.
The brothers said they were relieved to have spent the same amount on their gifts, having both made the maximum $2,700 in direct donations to the incumbent representative?s campaign and, through their super PAC Freedom Partners Action Fund, earmarked $2 million to pay for attack ads and mailers to smear Zeldin?s challenger in the key swing district.
?We went in together on Scott Walker a few months back, which was a real letdown, so I wanted to get David something he could really get some use out of,? said Charles Koch, recalling how disappointed his brother had been when the former presidential candidate had stopped working. ?We were so excited when we first got Walker, but he turned out to be defective. It would have cost way too much to fix him.?
According to reports, the brothers agreed they would avoid making the same mistake next Christmas by simply giving each other a $25 million gift card that could be spent at any lobbying firm in the United States.
http://www.theonion.com/article/koch-brothers-get-each-other-same-election-christm-52012
https://youtu.be/C9eGz9hXfEI
Dennis
I've seen that...isn't it great |^|
It is..... Makes you think.
https://youtu.be/RwUGSYDKUxU
Dennis
Ever wonder where corporate climate deniers get "experts" to support their claims:
https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2015/12/08/exposed-academics-for-hire/ (https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2015/12/08/exposed-academics-for-hire/)
BBC has had several pieces on Exxon/Mobil funding scientists to cast doubt. Also, nice piece on PBS.....
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/climate-of-doubt/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/climate-of-doubt/)
Dennis
Donald Trump: Republican Presidential Candidate Says Water Regulations Harm His Ability to Wash Hair
Trump's example of environmental rules that hurt his great hair? ?You have showers where I can?t wash my hair properly, it?s a disaster! It?s true. The showerheads have restrictors". Sorry, but I can't vote for a person with no clue as to how to use a simple needle-nose pliers to remove the plastic restriction orifice!
LOLOLOLOL....
A realistic analysis of the Paris Climate Agreement (not pretty):
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/)
Quote from: BillT on December 14, 2015, 10:47:36 PM
A realistic analysis of the Paris Climate Agreement (not pretty):
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/)
The fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....
Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....
Quote from: Mugwump on December 15, 2015, 04:55:18 AM
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....
That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?
I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country. What happened to us? When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on December 15, 2015, 07:38:25 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on December 15, 2015, 04:55:18 AM
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....
That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?
I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country. What happened to us? When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?
Dennis
Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....
Trump Rally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvN6fxfmutQ
TRUMP 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj9M34DzAKo
Quote from: ghonk on December 15, 2015, 10:43:24 AM
Trump Rally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvN6fxfmutQ
Very good, Greg.
QuoteThe fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....
Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....
It is a start, but a rather limited one.
The big hope is that it is something to build on. By itself, it will not do the job.
QuoteQuote from: BallAquatics on Today at 04:38:25 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 01:55:18 AM
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....
That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?
I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country. What happened to us? When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?
Dennis
Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....
I would argue a lot of it is due to the corrupting influence of unregulated big money on the election process.
Any noisy idiot can get noticed by spending a lot of money.
Media presence increases the popularity of many of them.
Corporate interests fund PR in order to further line their pockets.
Quote from: BillT on December 15, 2015, 03:58:11 PM
QuoteThe fact is that nothings perfect....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....sure it will take a bit of tweaking and revising as it moves forward. Not everyone's going to like the color you painted the wall.....but it's a start....
Plus the deniers will try to torpedo it along the way....
It is a start, but a rather limited one.
The big hope is that it is something to build on. By itself, it will not do the job.
QuoteQuote from: BallAquatics on Today at 04:38:25 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 01:55:18 AM
....and there will be critics coming out of the woodwork now....
That's the Nation past-time in this country these days isn't it?
I think most of us here are old enough to remember when we did great things in this country. What happened to us? When did we become so wishy washy and unable to stay the course with tough problems?
Dennis
Well, we allowed the creation of the 'me' society.....plus the internet has given rise to pseudo intellectuals who are just parroting anything they read on the net.....FB fish groups are an example.....there are all these 6mos into the hobby experts now.....the salt argument gets testy over there too....LOL..." I read it on the internet, so it must be true"....
I would argue a lot of it is due to the corrupting influence of unregulated big money on the election process.
Any noisy idiot can get noticed by spending a lot of money.
Media presence increases the popularity of many of them.
Corporate interests fund PR in order to further line their pockets.
" I read it on the internet, so it must be true"
https://www.youtube.com/embed/hC3VTgIPoGU?rel=0
(http://comicincorrect.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dole-Help-600-nrd.jpg)
My favorite cable news anchor, ACN's Will McAvoy.....
https://youtu.be/1zqOYBabXmA
Dennis
(https://pics-keycdn.slickpic.com/MTI0NjA2YjQxMDA3NzA,/20151219/MTE3MjE0NjIwNzAw/p/1600/trump_putin.png)
http://trump-putin2016.com/
Middle East policy...?
(http://45.media.tumblr.com/e1de242ba13d287c83f8549cec2e80f9/tumblr_nxz6gfgzeX1uluhv2o1_500.gif)
Yep :(
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trumps-terrifying-nuke-answer-at-the-debate-should-end-his-campaign-but-it-wont-20151216
It's starting to look like we are going to be in a no-win situation. Trump or Clinton, I'm not interested in either of them being MY representative.
Dennis
Don't rule Bernie out quite yet.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on December 20, 2015, 05:18:43 PM
Don't rule Bernie out quite yet.
I'll probably declare as a democrat just to vote for him in the Ohio primary.
Dennis
We have open primaries down here in Mississippi. The blacks as a voting block vote for Hillary. Bernie should be more appealing to them with his message income equality. I can't figure it. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he's an old white guy. I hate to think of our voters as superficial, but heck...look at Trump's popularity ::)
While I like Bernie, I don't think that he can win...plus, being an Independent actually....he'll be lacking in any true support from either side of the aisle...his 'sound bites' are good, but he's lacking in any method to get them enacted....and that's a steep climb...
Barack Obama: Not Perfect But Certainly One of the Better Presidents Ever: The Facts
For Progressives, the Administration of President Obama has been a disappointment in many ways. Here at The Ring of Fire, we have had our own issues with Obama?s positions and actions on the environment, issuing permits allowing oil companies to drill in the Arctic, his questionable support for the secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership, his choice of a drug industry insider to head the Food and Drug Administration, and more.
Like all of those who have held executive office throughout U.S. history, President Obama is a flawed man. His promises of ?Hope and Change? have fallen far short of what Progressives had hoped for nearly eight years ago. Nonetheless, there has been progress ? and there are numbers to prove it. Before delving in to that question, however, let?s point out what President Obama?s job really is ? and what he has had to contend with during his tenure in office.
Many American voters have the idea that the President has the ability to do virtually anything. It is one of the unfortunate reasons that voter turnout for off-year elections and local races is so dismal. Too many voters ignore the political process seventy-five percent of the time, then suddenly turn all their attention to the presidential races every four years. This is one major reason that the Green Party has been so ineffective. Once every four years, they trot out their candidate for President ? but how much do you hear from them during mid-term elections?
This is a lesson that the right wing learned decades ago. Their strategy, played out over a fifty-year period, was to start by winning local elections, such as those for school boards, mayors? offices and city councils. From there, right-wing Republicans went on to target state legislatures and gubernatorial races. The next step was to capture Congress. It was a ground-up, step-by-step process that was carefully planned and executed ? and has almost succeeded.
Now, let?s take a look at the Office of the President. It is true that, as Head of State, the President has some significant powers. He (or she, as it may one day happen) commands the Armed Forces. S/he has the power to sign or veto legislation. The President may negotiate and enter into treaties with foreign governments. S/he can appoint ambassadors, judges and heads of federal agencies. However, these powers are subject to Congressional constraints; such actions must have the approval of Congress. This is an important aspect of American government that too few people understand (particularly since civics is not always taught effectively in our public schools, anymore). Except in rare cases, a President cannot do anything if Congress stands in the way.
Since the day he took office, Congress has blocked President Obama at almost every turn. Senator Mitch McConnell infamously announced the GOP?s intention to make Obama a ?one-term president.?
That hasn?t been the worst of it. As an African-American with a non-European name, President Obama?s very presence in the Oval Office has brought out the ugly, egregious racism and ignorance that continues to run in the undercurrents of U.S. society. His citizenship and his patriotism has been repeatedly questioned and attacked in the mainstream corporate media ? the same media that bowed down and practically worshiped George W. Bush, arguably the worst President since Warren Harding.
This is a good place to start in examining the Obama Administration?s record ? particularly in light of the grinding opposition that he has had to face.
We?ll begin with the GOP?s biggest issue: federal spending. It is no secret that fiscally, the Administration of George W. Bush was an unmitigated disaster. When President Obama took office in January 2009, he inherited what amounted to a $1.4 trillion deficit. Since that time, the Obama Administration has managed to cut that figure by almost two-thirds, to $492 billion. Over the same period, GDP growth went from -5.4% to +3.5%.
Now, let?s consider the almighty stock market, generally regarded to be a measure of a nation?s economic health (a questionable claim ? though it certainly measures the economic well-being of the elite). When George W. Bush left office in the wake of Stock Market Crash II, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) stood at just under 8,000 ? having fell from its dizzy heights of 14,000 in October of 2007. Today, that number stands at over 17,500.
Obviously, the economic elites of this country have very little to complain about. But even those who actually work at producing tangible goods and real services for society have benefited. Under Bush II, there was a net loss of private sector jobs of 462,000. Under President Obama there has been a net gain of more than eight million. The unemployment rate is now at 5%. It was at 7.8% when Bush II left office. Not bad for a President whose policies have been labeled by the right wing as ?job killers.?
Finally, let?s look at the centerpiece of the Obama Administration?s accomplishments: the Affordable Care Act. For decades, rising health care costs and the control of U.S. health care by greed-driven, bottom-line private corporations had literally been killing Americans. These people died for no other reason than an inability to afford the medical attention they needed. Insurers routinely dropped customers if they contracted a ?catastrophic disease,? or denied coverage because of ?pre-existing conditions.? Huge amounts of health care dollars went directly into the pockets of overpaid CEOs and corporate shareholders instead of actual medical services. Millions more were driven into bankruptcy by medical bills that nobody else in the industrialized world would be expected to pay. It was a travesty that made the U.S. a target of scorn and pity among nations who have long guaranteed their citizens the right to health care.
The ACA, derisively labeled as ?Obamacare,? wasn?t the public option nor the single payer system that Progressives had pushed for. It kept profit-driven private insurers in the drivers? seat. Arguably, people are still falling through the cracks, particularly in ?red? states that have refused to create exchanges or expand Medicaid. Nonetheless, as of this year, 90% of Americans now have affordable health coverage. They can no longer be denied that coverage because of ?pre-existing conditions? or dropped because the cost of their treatment is cutting into some private health insurer?s bottom line. Before the ACA went into effect, approximately 18% of Americans lacked any health care coverage at all ? and many more were struggling to afford extortion-level insurance payments, with no guarantee that they would actually be covered, should the need arise.
These are just the major accomplishments of the Obama Administration over the past seven years. These battles were won despite a recalcitrant Congress determined to destroy him with lies and unfounded accusations, a GOP hell-bent on dismantling the ACA and rolling back any policy that would benefit the 98%, and a prostituted corporate media with the sole mission of destroying President Obama with more lies and distortions, whipping up racist hysteria among ignorant rednecks and other bigots.
Barack Hussein Obama may not have been everything that Progressives wanted and expected him to be. Nonetheless, he still compares favorably with one of America?s most beloved executives, President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Furthermore, while F.D.R. was forced to deal with the worst economic disaster and the most dire national emergency in U.S. history, he never had to deal with relentless corporate media attacks and race-based hatred. Given that President Obama has had to overcome these obstacles, facing his opposition with grace and finesse (let?s just say it ? Mr. Obama has class), it?s a good bet that future historians will place our current President alongside John F. Kennedy, Franklin Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln.
None of those men were perfect, by any means ? and neither is President Obama. But all things considered, he deserves to be remembered by future historians as one of the greatest executives to sit in the Oval Office.
http://trofire.com/2015/12/25/barack-hussein-obama-not-perfect-but-certainly-one-of-the-better-presidents-ever-the-facts/ (http://trofire.com/2015/12/25/barack-hussein-obama-not-perfect-but-certainly-one-of-the-better-presidents-ever-the-facts/)
I love a good fiction story every once in a while. Thanks Jon.
Fiction,you mean like President Obama being a undercover Muslim.
You have already proved you are religiously intolerant,and since racism usually goes hand in hand with it i'm confident you're that too.
Quote from: ghonk on December 29, 2015, 08:07:02 PM
Fiction,you mean like President Obama being a undercover Muslim.
You have already proved you are religiously intolerant,and since racism usually goes hand in hand with it i'm confident you're that too.
Actually people that know me would refute you on the religious tolerance. And I doubt I'm a racist. My other half is in fact a minority. Born in another country. Came here legally though. And I never said I thought Hussein was moslem. While I doubt he's a Christian I can't say if he's moslem or not. There's not enough information to go on.
BTW if I am going to like or dislike someone it will be because of their character not their skin color
or ethnicity.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/12-31-15-babynewyear-1000.jpg)
"Let's see how cute you are after a year of listening to Donald Trump?"
....anybody else following this....?
.................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Armed militia, incl. Bundy bros, occupy forest reserve HQ in Oregon, call ?US patriots? to arms
Published time: 3 Jan, 2016 02:51
Edited time: 3 Jan, 2016 11:29
Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy?s three sons and ?about 150? militiamen have occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ to protest the pending imprisonment of two Oregon ranchers accused of arson, arguing the federal government has no authority in local cases.
?We?re going to be freeing these lands up, and getting ranchers back to ranching, getting the loggers back to logging, getting the miners back to mining where they could do it under the protection of the people and not be afraid of this tyranny that?s been set upon them,? Ammon Bundy, who appears to be the leader of the group, said in a Facebook video posted by Sarah Dee Spurlock on Saturday.
more
https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-bundy-militia-oregon-ranchers/
Yes. I consider them anarchists.
Bunch of idiots trying to play army,and then when something happens you will have a bunch of people whining
about it like ruby ridge and waco.
Same group that can't stop complaining about how lawless the country has become,but think they can do as they please.
They need to have their ass kicked out of there ASAP.
They should have busted them when they pulled that crap before. They can't let them get away with this or more of these groups will spring up. >:(
I wonder if they brought their kids along dressed up like little soldiers and holding signs.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/26tPsQTJPV56kfcBi/giphy.gif)
Quote from: wsantia1 on January 03, 2016, 12:21:29 PM
They should have busted them when they pulled that crap before. They can't let them get away with this or more of these groups will spring up. >:(
Here's a report from CNN.....the text is better than the vids.....
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html)
Looks like a bunch of confused people with guns, not knowing really what they are doing or why.
Guess they'll blame someone else if something goes wrong.
Republican party base on the loose?
Actually reminds me of when Bush went into Iraq. A good well thought out idea.
Very good, Bill |^|
Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis
Quote from: Mugwump on January 04, 2016, 08:54:50 AM
Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis
LOL,i just saw that about 10 minutes ago on the news.
YallQaeda waging YeeHawd
http://www.blogher.com/yokel-haram-or-vanillaisis-or-yallqaeda?wrap=blogher-topics/politics-news&crumb=24
The locals don't want them there and opening of the area's schools will not occur this week! wfwf
Twitter Names Crazy White Oregon Terrorists #YallQaeda and #VanillaIsis (http://twitter%20names%20crazy%20white%20oregon%20terrorists%20#YallQaeda%20and%20#VanillaIsis)
Pretty funny!!!
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/473efef11d9da5d3dd98eae394dea113/tumblr_o0gs8e7qz01ql8t12o1_640.jpg)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/1510750_938155666279202_8395063265213892564_n.jpg?oh=d66a9fd1c09d4c235e49aeda7677964e&oe=57071137)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/535082_1036241843135536_7884407646071650151_n.jpg?oh=9ba0ac848120dc10886b0da39cb75ceb&oe=5743874E)
http://www.youngcons.com/meme-perfectly-exposes-bias-in-coverage-of-oregon-protesters2/
Sure,the media was reporting it as a PEACEFUL PROTEST while they were rioting,burning building and lobbing bricks and bottles at the police.
Just more Bullshit trying to justify what's going on now.
WOW! Hats off to President Obama for calling out Congress again. |^|
Dennis
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10259843_10207585125413412_2154503289274035324_n.jpg?oh=b84018f5acf3e1f3f1a7ca54466a7d89&oe=574948A8)
Dennis
Oregon Considers Wall to Keep Out Angry White Men
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Borowitz-Oregon-Considers-Wall-to-Keep-Out-Angry-White-Men1-690.jpg)
BURNS, OREGON (The Borowitz Report)?A majority of Oregonians favor building a twenty-foot wall along the border of their state to prevent angry white men from getting in, a poll released on Monday shows.
The survey indicates that Oregonians are fed up with irate male Caucasians pouring into their state and bringing with them guns, violence, and terrorism.
?This used to be such a nice state,? said Oregon State Senator Carol Foyler, a pro-wall lawmaker. ?Since the angry white men came here, parts of it are unrecognizable.?
But even as support for the Oregon wall grows, critics of the proposal say that it does nothing to address the fact that there are already thousands of angry white men living in the state.
Those critics favor forcibly removing the angry white men through mass deportations and resettling them elsewhere, possibly in Texas.
While some argue that the deportation of angry white men would separate them from their families, others believe that their families would be O.K. with seeing them go.
Who thinks that the Repubs will sue the president over his newest executive action and who thinks that they are full of hot air/
I say hot air.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2016, 04:34:19 PM
Who thinks that the Repubs will sue the president over his newest executive action and who thinks that they are full of hot air/
I say hot air.
.....lots of hot air.....
Did you hear the President this afternoon? I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about. I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.
The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like. I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 07:21:26 PM
Did you hear the President this afternoon? I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about. I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.
The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like. I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....
Dennis
That's exactly what the President said. He said that if we don't vote for them they will change their tunes. He said. "I promise."
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 05, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
That's exactly what the President said.....
Yep, I was out in the car so I got to hear the entire talk. To me, it was more like a talk than a speech. No doubt the FOX, MSNBC, and CNN folks will spin it till it makes you dizzy and the actual message will be lost from the folks who can't be bothered to put forth the effort to see that they are well informed.
Dennis
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
All gun control laws go against the 2nd. What part of " shall not be infringed." do people not understand?
And before you go on about a militia read Art. I, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which forbids the states from keeping "troops, or ships of war in time of peace," "without the consent of the Congress."
George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment
?I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.? ? Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778
Elbridge Gerry
?What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.? ? Floor debate over the Second Amendment, August 17, 1789; I Annals of Congress, p. 750
Tenche Coxe
?The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ? the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.? ? Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788
?Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.?? Writing as A Pennsylvanian, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution; Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789, p. 2 col. 1
So here's a simple question G,do you support what they are doing?
Quote from: BallAquatics on January 05, 2016, 07:21:26 PM
Did you hear the President this afternoon? I'm assuming that most folks who wait for the cable news to tell them what to think will completely miss the part about 90% of the population supporting the limits he is talking about. I can't imagine anyone who thinks that folks on the "no fly" lists should be able to purchase firearms, or that convicted felons or other criminal types should be able to skirt the law by making an on-line purchase or buying at a gun show.
The thing thing struck me was, if most of us support these changes, then quite a large number of our so-called representatives are NOT representing us as we would like. I think it will make for an interesting letter to my reps in Washington.....
Dennis
Where do you find the facts to support that claim? And in those polls what question is being asked?
Your statement about no fly would have also left your beloved senator Ted Kennedy unable to purchase a gun. He was also on the no fly list as are many others wrongly placed there.
As for felons:
U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(1), effective Oct. 12, 1999, states:
"It shall be unlawful for any person ?
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year [...]
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence -
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce."
There are already enough unconstitutional gun laws on the books that aren't enforced. Just like our immigration laws. How about instead of new laws that take guns out of the hands of law abiding people we enforce those already there?
BTW none of these laws would have stopped any of these killings. Just look at Mexico. Toughest gun laws in the world. Could also look at Chicago. Toughest gun laws in the states. NY has some tough gun laws too. You never hear anyone killed by a gun there do you?
So what will stop a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun and good aim.
Although if you look at the Seattle Mall shooting all the citizen did was take aim and the guy fled and offed himself.
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:02:38 PM
So here's a simple question G,do you support what they are doing?
What who is doing? There's a bunch of people doing a bunch of things. If you mean the Hammond thing I think they served their time. They served time for doing a controlled burn yet were labelled terrorists.
http://www.tsln.com/news/17302049-113/story.html
The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.
If you mean the Bundy thing I've really got no opinion. There is no reason to go in after them for occupying an empty building. All the government has to do is wait them out. In short order they will run out of vittles and water etc. Remember this was a pretty impromptu thing it's not like it was planned for years and they could stockpile supplies. And we don't need another Waco.
The so called oregon patriots.
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 PM
The so called oregon patriots.
Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
All I have to say about all this is" They will have to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands"
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 PM
The so called oregon patriots.
Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?
Quote from: ilroost on January 05, 2016, 11:15:53 PM
All I have to say about all this is" They will have to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands"
Yes sir Mr Heston,but i don't think much force will be needed.
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 PM
The so called oregon patriots.
Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 07:48:22 AM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 PM
The so called oregon patriots.
Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/
"Polling conducted last year by the Colorado College State of the Rockies project found that majorities of voters in each of six Western states ? Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming ? view the lands managed by the federal government as belonging to the nation."
Notice they didn't say Bundy's....?
Nice article....I'm sure there's more to it than the biased media propaganda that we read from both sides of the issue. One can only wonder just how much land would not be abused, polluted, if the government didn't control these lands...look what other corporations have done to land that they have worked, after it became available.....strip mining comes to mind first...
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 07:48:22 AM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 05, 2016, 10:32:34 PM
The so called oregon patriots.
Have they harmed anyone? Have they looted anything? Have they burned down anything?
So as long as someone isn't looting,burning or harming anyone,they can do as they please?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/04/the-oregon-standoff-is-far-bigger-than-a-group-of-armed-men-in-a-forest/
Notice they didn't say Bundy's....?
Nice article....I'm sure there's more to it than the biased media propaganda that we read from both sides of the issue. One can only wonder just how much land would not be abused, polluted, if the government didn't control these lands...look what other corporations have done to land that they have worked, after it became available.....strip mining comes to mind first...
Not really talking about the Bundy's ownership. States want their property back. Look at the map and how much land the Fed has confiscated.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/10/431223703/epa-says-it-released-3-million-gallons-of-contaminated-water-into-river
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-spill/
What would stop the Fed from coming in and taking all the resources beneath that land though?
I believe these extremists have made a tactical error in their choice of a wildlife refuge for their occupation.
""Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established on August 18, 1908, by President Theodore Roosevelt as the Lake Malheur Reservation. Roosevelt set aside unclaimed government lands encompassed by Malheur, Mud and Harney Lakes ?as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds.? The newly established ?Lake Malheur Reservation? was the 19th of 51 wildlife refuges created by Roosevelt during his tenure as president. At the time, Malheur was the third refuge in Oregon and one of only six refuges west of the Mississippi.""
more here: http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
Hunters are also allowed to take certain species of birds in certain parts of the reserve. Right now it is hunting season for several species, including Goose, Duck, Chukar & Quail. And yet the park is closed due to the action of these militants. Hunters cannot be happy about this.
Furthermore, these people are objecting to government management of the land. They claim they are only against the Federal government's management of land, but let's face it, they really don't want any government telling them they can't exploit or use any public land any way they want to. This means they are objecting to any set asides for nature including the entire national park system, as begun by President Theodore Roosevelt. Is the American public really ready to back those who want to privatize and destroy our parks? These points must be focused on by the media, so the public knows what these extremists are really all about.
Right now it is very cold at the refuge, and snow covers the ground. All they really have to do is turn off the power to the park buildings. Then close the road. The idiots can leave whenever they want, but they cannot go back in until the situation is over. They can be arrested later.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 06, 2016, 09:22:39 AM
I believe these extremists have made a tactical error in their choice of a wildlife refuge for their occupation.
Right now it is very cold at the refuge, and snow covers the ground. All they really have to do is turn off the power to the park buildings. Then close the road. The idiots can leave whenever they want, but they cannot go back in until the situation is over. They can be arrested later.
It wasn't very well planned by any means.
As for just turning out the power and waiting where is the drama in that? The feds need the drama. Maybe they'll go in guns blazing. Another Waco. Or Kent State.
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.
The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!
The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.
Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?
IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.
If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!
Quote from: BillT on January 06, 2016, 12:20:33 PM
IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.
Exactly,it would be there they go again thinking they don't have to follow the laws,and they think they can do whatever they want, break out the apache helicopters and teach them a lesson.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 05, 2016, 10:24:30 PM
Your statement about no fly would have also left your beloved senator Ted Kennedy unable to purchase a gun. He was also on the no fly list as are many others wrongly placed there.
My beloved..... LOL I rest my case.
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandatohttp://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandato/ (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandatohttp://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandato/)
Like I said before, I listened to the whole talk. I didn't hear the President make any wild claims or say anything that wasn't true.
I've been an avid outdoors man all my life. That's how I was brought up. I own many firearms including a highly modified assault rifle. I have no intention of giving up my guns,
but if you actually listened to what the President said, he said nothing about gun control or taking away our rights to own firearms.
Dennis
Quote from: BillT on January 06, 2016, 12:20:33 PM
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.
The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!
The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.
Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?
IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.
If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!
Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents,
the 2001 ?Hardie-Hammond? fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect,
the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section.The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again.
As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.Bill, there were errors on both sides. was it arson? I don't know. No one really knows. And if you ever look at trials the only "truth" that comes out is the truth the better lawyer wants to come out. And face it, the Fed can always get better lawyers since they are paying for it with our money.
Charging them with terrorism though was a bit far fetched.
Quote"For these actions, they were sentenced to a year in jail, which possibly was appropriate, considering they endangered people?s lives. But the federal government, citing an anti-terrorism law that sets a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for arson on federal land, demanded that they be re-sentenced. Having already served the first year, they were scheduled to be re-incarcerated for four more years after the new year."
Again, Bill, my other half is a minority. A legal immigrant. Might want to think about your remarks before you put them on the net.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 03:26:12 PM
Quote from: BillT on January 06, 2016, 12:20:33 PM
The Hammonds are doing the right wing thing and making stuff up. They were convicted in court of setting the fire in question to cover up their poaching of dear on the federal land.
The fire threatened endangered wildlife and the lives of firemen who had to deal with the mess they created on land belonging to EVERYONE in the country.
The land was never the state's land! This argument is stupid. Learn some history! It was federal land before the states were created from territories. The Fed's never gave it to the states. You can argue maybe they should have but that is a different argument.
Before that it was the indian's land. Bet they won't be giving it back to them!
The current "occupation" is causing the local schools to be closed.
It has almost no support in the county.
The best thing they are doing is showing the country how pathetic they and their self-serving beliefs really are.
Are people really supposed to say "Oh yes, loud guys with guns. Please take this land the country has decided to to use for this purpose, ignore all wildlife protections, don't worry about the expenses the country is paying to maintain the place, just take it and spoil it so you can make some pathetic profit for yourself and screw everyone else"?
IF it were a bunch of armed black guys, I bet you would be singing a different tune.
If these guys were so into the constitution, why are they using constitutional procedures to change things instead of being low life law breakers?
Partake in elections, change laws, try convincing people without waving your stupid guns around. Their idea of constitutionalism is a farce to hid their self serving greed!
Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 ?Hardie-Hammond? fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section.
The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond?s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, ?improved range conditions? on the public lands.
Bill, there were errors on both sides. was it arson? I don't know. No one really knows. And if you ever look at trials the only "truth" that comes out is the truth the better lawyer wants to come out. And face it, the Fed can always get better lawyers since they are paying for it with our money.
Charging them with terrorism though was a bit far fetched.
Quote"For these actions, they were sentenced to a year in jail, which possibly was appropriate, considering they endangered people?s lives. But the federal government, citing an anti-terrorism law that sets a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for arson on federal land, demanded that they be re-sentenced. Having already served the first year, they were scheduled to be re-incarcerated for four more years after the new year."
Again, Bill, my other half is a minority. A legal immigrant. Might want to think about your remarks before you put them on the net.
I think if you'll do bit more research, you'll find that they set fires more than once....but only care to refer to the one where they had permission....it's the others that were witnessed by a whole fire brigade, and others, that got them in trouble.........
ps....caps/ large print/ bold type....WOW ...that's a lot of screaming.....wake any neighbors yet?.....LOL......
Enraged Birders To Retake Oregon Wildlife Refuge In Dawn Offensive
(http://i1.wp.com/www.breakingburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/PDusgov_bird_watchers.jpg?resize=777%2C437)
Birders preparing to recapture the Oregon wildlife refuge.
[Burns, OR] The armed militants who have occupied the Oregon wildlife refuge may be encouraged the apparent lack of response by government authorities. But their stand is reportedly doomed anyway, since they picked the worst possible location to make their point, according to a source at the American Birding Association.
?The Malheur sanctuary is home to approximately 320 avian species beloved by birders. BIG mistake.?
The nearby town of Burns has seen a rapid influx of birders who are determined to eject the illegal occupiers. The birders possess a number of advantages when it comes to combat in open terrain, according to those familiar with the hobby.
?They are masters of disguise who know how to blend into the outdoor environment, whereas the enemy, with their pickups, massive guns, and loud obnoxious personalities, tend to stick out like a sore thumb.?
The birders are also exceptionally skilled at spotting the enemy first so they will have the full advantage of surprise, and their uniform of loose fitting garments and comfortable walking shoes means they are quick and light on their feet, much like the Viet Cong during the Vietnam war. They are also equally ruthless when pushed.
?Just try referring to them as bird watchers instead of birders and see what happens. I guarantee that you will never do it again.?
The self-described patriots? assault rifles and armored vests will be of little protection against their ornithological foe.
?Before you even know what?s happened they sneak up behind you and clobber you with a sturdy walking cane or large-caliber spotting scope.?
It?s possible the birders will adopt an extended siege strategy, which they would undoubtedly win due to their ability to live off nuts and berries, whereas the militants have already put out a desperate call for snacks. But those close to the birders think that unlikely.
?The birders are angry, and they want blood.?
http://www.breakingburgh.com/enraged-birders-to-retake-oregon-wildlife-refuge-in-dawn-offensive/
The Birders!
No wonder those clowns needed to bring along their guns!
G: Too bad you have no idea about what your screaming about. You should listen to the country DA, not Faux News.
I know exactly what I am "screaming" about. Looking back over previous discussion Bill I realize if I don't highlight which parts of your statements I am referring to you lose track. I do it simply to help you. I am after all a very considerate person Bill.
BTW Bill, as I... Bill, over here, focus now, Bill. BILL FOCUS...anyway as I have said before, Bill, FOCUS BILL, I don't watch Fox News Bill.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 06, 2016, 07:10:53 PM
I know exactly what I am "screaming" about. Looking back over previous discussion Bill I realize if I don't highlight which parts of your statements I am referring to you lose track. I do it simply to help you. I am after all a very considerate person Bill.
BTW Bill, as I... Bill, over here, focus now, Bill. BILL FOCUS...anyway as I have said before, Bill, FOCUS BILL, I don't watch Fox News Bill.
huh huh huh what? huh huh huh
QuoteI don't watch Fox News Bill
What?
You make that stuff up all by yourself?
Quote from: BillT on January 06, 2016, 08:11:03 PM
QuoteI don't watch Fox News Bill
What?
You make that stuff up all by yourself?
Unlike you Bill I keep an open mind. I have not been brainwashed by the liberal media and think for myself after due diligence.
Bill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB80mFnc77g
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6555-1.jpg)
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6549.jpg)
Obama Continues to Stubbornly Link Gun Violence with Guns
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Borowitz-Obama-Stubbornly-Links-Gun-Violence-with-Guns-690.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Republican Presidential candidates ripped President Obama on Tuesday for what they called his stubborn insistence on linking gun violence with guns.
In campaign stops across Iowa and New Hampshire, the G.O.P. hopefuls pounded the President for irrationally concluding that guns have played a role in the nation?s epidemic of mass shootings.
?How any reasonable person could look at gun violence and say that guns are involved is beyond me,? said Texas Senator Ted Cruz. ?And yet, somehow, President Obama always finds a way.?
?I would very much like to have a conversation about gun violence, as President Obama has said he wants to have,? said Florida Senator Marco Rubio. ?But as long as he keeps falling back on this tired, unproven connection between gun violence and guns, there?s just no point.?
The former Hewlett-Packard C.E.O. Carly Fiorina said that Obama?s persistent linking of gun violence with guns was ?sad but not surprising, from a man who believes that people?s health can be improved by access to health care.?
?He isn?t thinking straight,? she said.
Of all the candidates, though, the retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson was perhaps the most scathing in his assessment of the President?s remarks. ?Even if every gun in the world suddenly disappeared, there would still be gun violence,? he said.
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
I sure do....you can go to certain sections of most any major city and get shot at....I can go down to Chicago, Mexico City, Juarez, Tijuana, LA, etc and feel perfectly safe...you just don't go to where the 'Do-Do birds' are........by the by, Tampa/ St. Pete/ Miami, etc. aren't much better, eh?....
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Same old ridiculous argument,SEE they have tough gun laws and still have crime.
John, Tampa/St. Pete isn't even in the top 25.
Quote from: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:36:49 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Same old ridiculous argument,SEE they have tough gun laws and still have crime.
Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 09:15:19 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
I sure do....you can go to certain sections of most any major city and get shot at....I can go down to Chicago, Mexico City, Juarez, Tijuana, LA, etc and feel perfectly safe...you just don't go to where the 'Do-Do birds' are........by the by, Tampa/ St. Pete/ Miami, etc. aren't much better, eh?....
Mexico has experienced increasingly high crime rates, especially in major urban centers. The country's great economic polarization has stimulated criminal activity in the lower socioeconomic strata, which include the majority of the country's population.
Crime continues at high levels, and is repeatedly marked by violence, especially in the cities of Tijuana and Ciudad Ju?rez, and the states of Baja California, Durango, Sinaloa, Guerrero, Chihuahua, Michoac?n, Tamaulipas, and Nuevo Le?n.[1] Other metropolitan areas have lower, yet still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates contribute to the high crime rate.
Crime Threats
Tijuana is a very large metropolitan city with an ever-present, very real crime problem. Pickpockets and purse snatchers are common and mostly occur in large crowds, on public transportation, and at tourist attractions. Credit card fraud, ATM card, and telephone card fraud is common.
Tijuana is a highly strategic location for narcotic and human trafficking, and violent crime continues to be a part of everyday life.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:36:49 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Same old ridiculous argument,SEE they have tough gun laws and still have crime.
Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.
So you don't think tough gun laws HELPS keep the guns out of the criminals hands.
I just love this article from Bloomberg
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-10-06/the-problem-with-using-chicago-to-make-the-case-against-gun-control
QuoteBut advocates for tougher restrictions say Trump?s and Christie?s arguments do not take into account two key features of the Chicago's gun landscape. The first is that, though it?s hard to get a gun in Chicago, it?s much easier to get one in the city?s immediate vicinity. The second feature is the city?s high level of gang activity, and that gangs are both adept at procuring guns illegally and prone to involvement in shooting incidents.
So what they are in effect saying is that it is really easy to get a gun illegally in Chicago. Unless you want to do it legally. The stupid is strong in this article. The only thing the laws do is keep guns out of the hands of those that want them legally. The criminal doesn't care about the law or they wouldn't be a criminal.
Quote from: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 09:36:49 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah Jon. Chicago. Some of the toughest gun laws in the land. Mexico has the toughest in the world. You feel all warm, fuzzy and safe in either of those two spots?
Same old ridiculous argument,SEE they have tough gun laws and still have crime.
Greg we are not talking about crime in general. We are talking about guns and shootings in general with regard to gun control in particular.
So you don't think tough gun laws HELPS keep the guns out of the criminals hands.
The only way it would help is if criminals obeyed the law. If they obeyed the law they wouldn't be criminals now would they?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 09:51:37 AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
Read real news, G....
Chicago murders up this year..
(http://heyjackass.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/murder_trend-2015_2-495x418.png)
read real stats too....
http://heyjackass.com/ (http://heyjackass.com/)
Yup, south Chicago is a gang nightmare....but you have no clue how bad from all the chosen media that you choose to read.....your preaching to the choir
Jon, not sure what the political slant of the first two are at all:
http://www.illinoismirror.com/one-year-after-concealed-carry-chicago-homicide-rate-plunges-to-56-year-low/
QuoteJust a year ago, Illinois finally became the last state in the nation to legalize concealed carry, albeit at a heavily regulated, watered-down basic level. In addition to stipulating dozens of gun-free zones, the Illinois law also prices permits at $600 and requires 16 hours of training ? adversely affecting people in low-income areas that are most susceptible to crime and gun violence (vs. $70 for those below the poverty line and four to six hours of training in Texas).
Still, very few in the Illinois media have bothered to report that the Chicago crime rate has dropped while conceal-carry permits have surged ? directly contradicting predictions that the opposite would happen. The city?s homicide rate has now plummeted to a 56-year low since the concealed-carry law was enacted:
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
?It isn?t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don?t know who?s armed and who isn?t has a deterrence effect,? said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. ?The police department hasn?t changed a single tactic ? they haven?t announced a shift in policy or of course ? and yet you have these incredible numbers.?
http://truthinmedia.com/crime-rates-in-chicago-plummet-after-il-implements-concealed-carry/
I do know that NBC is historically left wing.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Chicago-Crime-Reaches-Historic-Low-in-2014-287282501.html
QuoteChicago closed 2014 with what police said were ?historic lows? in crime and murder numbers.
The year saw a drop of 3 percent in murders, marking the lowest murder rate since 1965, when there were 397, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy.
The one question I would have Jon about your chart is: "How many of those murders were committed with legally obtained and owned guns?"
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:42:46 AM
Jon, not sure what the political slant of the first two are at all:
http://www.illinoismirror.com/one-year-after-concealed-carry-chicago-homicide-rate-plunges-to-56-year-low/
QuoteJust a year ago, Illinois finally became the last state in the nation to legalize concealed carry, albeit at a heavily regulated, watered-down basic level. In addition to stipulating dozens of gun-free zones, the Illinois law also prices permits at $600 and requires 16 hours of training ? adversely affecting people in low-income areas that are most susceptible to crime and gun violence (vs. $70 for those below the poverty line and four to six hours of training in Texas).
Still, very few in the Illinois media have bothered to report that the Chicago crime rate has dropped while conceal-carry permits have surged ? directly contradicting predictions that the opposite would happen. The city?s homicide rate has now plummeted to a 56-year low since the concealed-carry law was enacted:
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city?s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.
?It isn?t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don?t know who?s armed and who isn?t has a deterrence effect,? said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. ?The police department hasn?t changed a single tactic ? they haven?t announced a shift in policy or of course ? and yet you have these incredible numbers.?
http://truthinmedia.com/crime-rates-in-chicago-plummet-after-il-implements-concealed-carry/
I do know that NBC is historically left wing.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Chicago-Crime-Reaches-Historic-Low-in-2014-287282501.html
QuoteChicago closed 2014 with what police said were ?historic lows? in crime and murder numbers.
The year saw a drop of 3 percent in murders, marking the lowest murder rate since 1965, when there were 397, according to Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy.
The one question I would have Jon about your chart is: "How many of those murders were committed with legally obtained and owned guns?"
I image those numbers are out there...but it's no consequence to the fact that to dead it's a mute point...
Slant?... huh facts have no slant.....
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Sure,arm EVERYONE,that's the answer.Wild wild west shit.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.
QuoteTwo people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ
Anyone else feel like we're going around in circles? I'm dizzy wfwf
QuoteUnlike you Bill I keep an open mind.
There is no evidence of this, as is the case for so many of your foolish claims only a child would fall for.
QuoteBill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?
I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.
I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?
Here is an interesting little article that seems to explain a certain person's inability to rationally discuss things:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-appear-to-be-misinformed-not-uninformed/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-appear-to-be-misinformed-not-uninformed/)
For example:
QuoteAs Kuklinski and his colleagues established, in the U.S., the most misinformed citizens tend to be the most confident in their views and are also the strongest partisans. These folks fill the gaps in their knowledge base by using their existing belief systems. Once these inferences are stored into memory, they become ?indistinguishable from hard data,? Kuklinski and his colleagues found.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.
QuoteTwo people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ
Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'
try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D
No but we can mock the soundness of his arguments and his disconnect with reality, which is pretty fun!
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 04:44:04 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.
QuoteTwo people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ
Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'
try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D
Jon, he did take the guns from his mother. After he murdered her of course. That made the guns illegal.
The point is Jon, all of these unconstitutional gun laws don't pertain to criminals. It won't stop them. All these unconstitutional gun laws do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens trying to defend themselves Jon. And it's really tough when the government puts the guns out there themselves ala fast and furious for one example.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 07, 2016, 03:31:36 PM
Anyone else feel like we're going around in circles? I'm dizzy wfwf
Yep! WTF! (That's Welcome to Facebook...!)
Quote from: BillT on January 07, 2016, 03:40:33 PM
QuoteBill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?
I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.
I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?
You really don't pay any attention do you Bill?
I have stated many times that I do support global warming. What I don't support is the insane liberal belief in man made GW.
The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.
Bill the relevant part is in about the last 15 minutes Bill.
You do favor the personal attacks though don't you Bill?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 04:44:04 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 07, 2016, 12:07:37 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
Maybe if there weren't so many shooting ranges aka gun free zones there wouldn't be as many dead. Again look at the Seattle Mall shooter when faced with an opposing gun. No shots were fired by the legal carrier and he still offed himself saving many lives. What would have been the result in Sandy Hook if a teacher, armed and properly trained, were there to take out that scum sucker?
What facts the media choose to leave out or include however slants the results.
It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....he never should have even got those weapons....
Legally he wasn't able to own or have any guns Jon. Again, the gun control laws only apply to those who follow the laws. That shooter didn't follow the law Jon. If he did there would have been no shooting.
QuoteTwo people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3wazaxvkQ
Well 'G' how many 'red herrings' are you going to toss out 'G'..?..the 'Sandy Hill' shooter took the guns from his mother...'G'
try to stay focused 'G'....we can't have a conversation with you switching directions and trying to talk down to us 'G'..... ;D
Jon, he did take the guns from his mother. After he murdered her of course. That made the guns illegal.
The point is Jon, all of these unconstitutional gun laws don't pertain to criminals. It won't stop them. All these unconstitutional gun laws do is keep guns out of law abiding citizens trying to defend themselves Jon. And it's really tough when the government puts the guns out there themselves ala fast and furious for one example.
sheesh.....that was my point !!...she was the registered owner...not him....he got illegal guns......come on now, pick a side, or read more carefully...
this what I said above....""It all comes back to the facts......the media are drama whores anymore.....they'll say anything that sells...
Woulda coulda shouda is also a mute point....
he never should have even got those weapons....""
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 07, 2016, 06:59:10 PM
Quote from: BillT on January 07, 2016, 03:40:33 PM
QuoteBill, have you watched the Nova episode Extreme Cave Diving? Where they dive into a blue hole in the Bahamas and cut off a stalagmite then cut it in half and analyze it for climate changes? Where they theorize that in the past, pre human, temps rose a lot in about 50 years?
I saw that one. Did you have a point?
How about some details that might be relevant to your stupid point? How much did the temperature rise?
Or maybe you are expecting someone to sit through watching an hour show to find out how it is your not making sense this time.
I thought you said you believe in global warming.
Or have the mental winds blowing through you brain disturbed you thoughts once again?
You really don't pay any attention do you Bill?
I have stated many times that I do support global warming. What I don't support is the insane liberal belief in man made GW.
The point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.
Bill the relevant part is in about the last 15 minutes Bill.
You do favor the personal attacks though don't you Bill?
'G' the world is warming...'G' human population and life styles have accelerated the warming too......'G' whiz....
INSANE belief of man made global warming,lol.
Here's a clue,it's not the scientists that are insane.
Drink up!
QuoteThe point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.
1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
Let me take a wild guess G,you also don't support decriminalizing marijuana,a woman's right to choose or same sex marriage.
All evil plots to destroy this once great nation.
Donald Trump and Marco Rubio are sitting in a bar.
A guy walks in and asks the barman, "Isn't that Trump and Rubio sitting over there?"
The bartender says, "Yep, that's them."
So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honour, what are you guys doing in here?"
Trump says, "We're planning WW III."
The guy says, "Really, what's going to happen?"
Trump says, "Well, we're going to kill 140 million Muslims and one blonde with big tits."
The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big tits, why kill a blonde with big boobs?"
Trump turns to Rubio and says, "See, I told you, no one gives a damn about 140 million Muslims."
Quote from: BillT on January 07, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
QuoteThe point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.
1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
No Bill I don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.
Here's the relevant transcript Bill.
QuotePETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.
NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.
To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.
Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.
With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.
But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.
At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.
And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.
So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.
In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.
Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.
So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.
During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.
When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.
And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.
PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.
NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.
That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.
The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.
PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.
NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.
PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.
NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world.
Quote from: ghonk on January 07, 2016, 08:55:26 PM
Let me take a wild guess G,you also don't support decriminalizing marijuana,a woman's right to choose or same sex marriage.
All evil plots to destroy this once great nation.
I'm going to pretend I'm Bill and gloss over that.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: BillT on January 07, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
QuoteThe point of the show Bill is they stated that we have warmed. Seas have risen. We have cooled. Seas have dropped. It is in fact a natural occurrence. And there is the probability that in the past the warming has happened in as short a span of 50 years Bill. And it happened when there were no men around Bill. That's the point Bill.
1) A time point in the video would be considerate.
2) How long did this warm period last?
3) How warm did it get?
4) Having happened once naturally (if in fact it did) does not diminish the humongous amount of evidence for human causation now.
5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
No Bill I don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.
Here's the relevant transcript Bill.
QuotePETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.
NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.
To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.
Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.
With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.
But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.
At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.
And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.
So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.
In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.
Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.
So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.
During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.
When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.
And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.
PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.
NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.
That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.
The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.
PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.
NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.
PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.
NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world.
Balderdash....LOL.....more smoke and mirrors....
QuoteI don't recall saying the Earth is only 5-6000 years old only that this occupation of it has only been here that long.
What does this even mean??
Here's the relevant transcript Bill.
Quote
PETER SWART: Stalagmites record changes, right in the sub-tropical Atlantic gyre. So, here, we're really at the heart of the action. We haven't had that kind of opportunity to see the changes which occur in this region before now.
NARRATOR: So the stalagmite that Brian and Kenny have cut could provide a gold mine of global climate history. Using that history, Swart may be able to answer a critical question. While most scientists believe that Earth's climate is changing, they are struggling to figure out how fast. This stalagmite could help answer the question.
To decode it, Swart first has to cut it lengthwise with a diamond saw.
Inside, it displays regular bands of growth, like the rings in a tree. Embedded in each band is the climate biography of a specific period.
With analysis, Swart can describe how much it rained, what chemicals were in the rain, soil and air, even the temperature. Examination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.
But then he notices two curious details: first, the way the bands formed suggests that at least one of these climate episodes came on very abruptly.
At the end of the last Ice Age, about 11,000 years ago, conditions changed radically, from dry to wet, within 50 years. This change was probably accompanied by a rise in temperature and sea level.
And Swart notices something else: some of these climate events are preceded by a mysterious dark band. When he samples the dark bands, he finds iron.
So is there some link between iron and climate change? How could that be? The Bahamas are made of coral; there's no iron anywhere.
In the blue hole where they cut the stalagmite, Brian and Kenny noticed something that might help solve the mystery. In the cave wall, they found a layer of red sediment. The color is the key here: the red in the dust means it's loaded with iron. And that means that thousands of years ago, a thick layer of iron-rich red dust covered the island's surface.
Repeated rains washed it through the rock, leaving a bright red band.
So how did the red dust get here? One theory suggests it came from the Sahara Desert, some 4,000 miles away.
During times of extreme drought, towering dust storms gather in the Sahara, pushing dust high into the atmosphere, where it's carried across the Atlantic.
When Swart analyzes the iron in the stalagmite, he confirms that it's made of Sahara dust, though its red color has been washed out after thousands of years.
And in the dark band, he isn't finding traces of iron, but significant concentrations.
PETER SWART: Now, the iron was very low concentrations, with the exception of this boundary here.
NARRATOR: The areas with the highest concentration of iron correspond almost exactly to the places on the stalagmite where the chemical composition indicates a period of major climate change.
That probably means a major Sahara dust event came right before each change, when temperatures and sea levels rose.
The fact that Saharan dust storms happen with greater frequency today is raising concerns that history could be repeating itself.
PETER SWART: Now, we know, for the last 40, 50 years, there's been a major drought in Africa. And that has seen an input in the amount of dust which is coming from the Sahara region to the Bahamas.
NARRATOR: It's estimated that over the past five decades, the Sahara has seen a ten-fold increase in large-scale dust storms. If we are witnessing the beginning of a major climate change, it could happen fast, just as it happened in the past, maybe in as little as a lifetime.
PETER SWART: We don't worry too much about climate change, because it's something that's going to happen "after I'm dead." But, in actual fact, some of the records that we've been looking at, we see tremendous changes in a matter of decades. And so, when climate changes that fast, obviously it would have tremendous implications for the present-day society.
NARRATOR: Swart's findings are preliminary, but they do suggest that climate change in the past happened faster than anyone imagined. If such change occurred today, immediate concern would be for the millions of people in areas most affected by sea level rise?island nations and coastal regions throughout the world. (http://here's%20the%20relevant%20transcript%20Bill.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EQuote%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20PETER%20SWART:%20Stalagmites%20record%20changes,%20right%20in%20the%20sub-tropical%20Atlantic%20gyre.%20So,%20here,%20we're%20really%20at%20the%20heart%20of%20the%20action.%20We%20haven't%20had%20that%20kind%20of%20opportunity%20to%20see%20the%20changes%20which%20occur%20in%20this%20region%20before%20now.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20NARRATOR:%20So%20the%20stalagmite%20that%20Brian%20and%20Kenny%20have%20cut%20could%20provide%20a%20gold%20mine%20of%20global%20climate%20history.%20Using%20that%20history,%20Swart%20may%20be%20able%20to%20answer%20a%20critical%20question.%20While%20most%20scientists%20believe%20that%20Earth's%20climate%20is%20changing,%20they%20are%20struggling%20to%20figure%20out%20how%20fast.%20This%20stalagmite%20could%20help%20answer%20the%20question.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20To%20decode%20it,%20Swart%20first%20has%20to%20cut%20it%20lengthwise%20with%20a%20diamond%20saw.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20Inside,%20it%20displays%20regular%20bands%20of%20growth,%20like%20the%20rings%20in%20a%20tree.%20Embedded%20in%20each%20band%20is%20the%20climate%20biography%20of%20a%20specific%20period.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20With%20analysis,%20Swart%20can%20describe%20how%20much%20it%20rained,%20what%20chemicals%20were%20in%20the%20rain,%20soil%20and%20air,%20even%20the%20temperature.%20Examination%20of%20the%20stalagmite%20shows%20evidence%20of%20more%20than%20five%20major%20climate%20changes%20over%20the%20last%2080,000%20years.%20This%20corroborates%20findings%20in%20samples%20taken%20from%20ice%20cores.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20But%20then%20he%20notices%20two%20curious%20details:%20first,%20the%20way%20the%20bands%20formed%20suggests%20that%20at%20least%20one%20of%20these%20climate%20episodes%20came%20on%20very%20abruptly.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20At%20the%20end%20of%20the%20last%20Ice%20Age,%20about%2011,000%20years%20ago,%20conditions%20changed%20radically,%20from%20dry%20to%20wet,%20within%2050%20years.%20This%20change%20was%20probably%20accompanied%20by%20a%20rise%20in%20temperature%20and%20sea%20level.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20And%20Swart%20notices%20something%20else:%20some%20of%20these%20climate%20events%20are%20preceded%20by%20a%20mysterious%20dark%20band.%20When%20he%20samples%20the%20dark%20bands,%20he%20finds%20iron.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20So%20is%20there%20some%20link%20between%20iron%20and%20climate%20change?%20How%20could%20that%20be?%20The%20Bahamas%20are%20made%20of%20coral;%20there's%20no%20iron%20anywhere.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20In%20the%20blue%20hole%20where%20they%20cut%20the%20stalagmite,%20Brian%20and%20Kenny%20noticed%20something%20that%20might%20help%20solve%20the%20mystery.%20In%20the%20cave%20wall,%20they%20found%20a%20layer%20of%20red%20sediment.%20The%20color%20is%20the%20key%20here:%20the%20red%20in%20the%20dust%20means%20it's%20loaded%20with%20iron.%20And%20that%20means%20that%20thousands%20of%20years%20ago,%20a%20thick%20layer%20of%20iron-rich%20red%20dust%20covered%20the%20island's%20surface.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20Repeated%20rains%20washed%20it%20through%20the%20rock,%20leaving%20a%20bright%20red%20band.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20So%20how%20did%20the%20red%20dust%20get%20here?%20One%20theory%20suggests%20it%20came%20from%20the%20Sahara%20Desert,%20some%204,000%20miles%20away.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20During%20times%20of%20extreme%20drought,%20towering%20dust%20storms%20gather%20in%20the%20Sahara,%20pushing%20dust%20high%20into%20the%20atmosphere,%20where%20it's%20carried%20across%20the%20Atlantic.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20When%20Swart%20analyzes%20the%20iron%20in%20the%20stalagmite,%20he%20confirms%20that%20it's%20made%20of%20Sahara%20dust,%20though%20its%20red%20color%20has%20been%20washed%20out%20after%20thousands%20of%20years.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20And%20in%20the%20dark%20band,%20he%20isn't%20finding%20traces%20of%20iron,%20but%20significant%20concentrations.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20PETER%20SWART:%20Now,%20the%20iron%20was%20very%20low%20concentrations,%20with%20the%20exception%20of%20this%20boundary%20here.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20NARRATOR:%20The%20areas%20with%20the%20highest%20concentration%20of%20iron%20correspond%20almost%20exactly%20to%20the%20places%20on%20the%20stalagmite%20where%20the%20chemical%20composition%20indicates%20a%20period%20of%20major%20climate%20change.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20That%20probably%20means%20a%20major%20Sahara%20dust%20event%20came%20right%20before%20each%20change,%20when%20temperatures%20and%20sea%20levels%20rose.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20The%20fact%20that%20Saharan%20dust%20storms%20happen%20with%20greater%20frequency%20today%20is%20raising%20concerns%20that%20history%20could%20be%20repeating%20itself.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20PETER%20SWART:%20Now,%20we%20know,%20for%20the%20last%2040,%2050%20years,%20there's%20been%20a%20major%20drought%20in%20Africa.%20And%20that%20has%20seen%20an%20input%20in%20the%20amount%20of%20dust%20which%20is%20coming%20from%20the%20Sahara%20region%20to%20the%20Bahamas.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20NARRATOR:%20It's%20estimated%20that%20over%20the%20past%20five%20decades,%20the%20Sahara%20has%20seen%20a%20ten-fold%20increase%20in%20large-scale%20dust%20storms.%20If%20we%20are%20witnessing%20the%20beginning%20of%20a%20major%20climate%20change,%20it%20could%20happen%20fast,%20just%20as%20it%20happened%20in%20the%20past,%20maybe%20in%20as%20little%20as%20a%20lifetime.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20PETER%20SWART:%20We%20don't%20worry%20too%20much%20about%20climate%20change,%20because%20it's%20something%20that's%20going%20to%20happen%20"after%20I'm%20dead."%20But,%20in%20actual%20fact,%20some%20of%20the%20records%20that%20we've%20been%20looking%20at,%20we%20see%20tremendous%20changes%20in%20a%20matter%20of%20decades.%20And%20so,%20when%20climate%20changes%20that%20fast,%20obviously%20it%20would%20have%20tremendous%20implications%20for%20the%20present-day%20society.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E %20 %20NARRATOR:%20Swart's%20findings%20are%20preliminary,%20but%20they%20do%20suggest%20that%20climate%20change%20in%20the%20past%20happened%20faster%20than%20anyone%20imagined.%20If%20such%20change%20occurred%20today,%20immediate%20concern%20would%20be%20for%20the%20millions%20of%20people%20in%20areas%20most%20affected%20by%20sea%20level%20rise?island%20nations%20and%20coastal%20regions%20throughout%20the%20world.)
This is more of a commentary on their activities than a scientific analysis.
Its a kind of shaky conclusion. Lots of probablies piled on top of each other and not supported by any other source of information like a normal scientific argument would have.
A backup publication (peer reviewed) would be much more convincing.
Also no mention of any specific temperatures, so not really clear about what they are talking about.
A fast temperature change at the end of an ice age, not too surprising.
QuoteExamination of the stalagmite shows evidence of more than five major climate changes over the last 80,000 years. This corroborates findings in samples taken from ice cores.
This just sounds like they saw ice ages happening. Big deal. Not relevant.
I think you would do better if you had an understanding of the arguments you are trying to make. Of course that would require a more critical eye for the data.
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.
More Kool Aid anyone?
Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.
Man has only been here for that length of time however.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 01:37:28 PM
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.
More Kool Aid anyone?
Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.
Man has only been here for that length of time however.
I don't believe that anyone asked you how old the world was...huh?.....more red herring 'G'....you seem to pick out only a part of the discussion and take off on a diversion slant to la la land......please focus....you can do it....come on...
QuoteBill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.
Man has only been here for that length of time however.
Although some Bible events have been supported by archeological and historical analyses, the Bible has a very poor record of providing information on geological events.
Archaeology and modern genetics has blown those dates away. Dogs have been domesticated for longer than that.
But you just keep retreating to your close minded beliefs in the face of a world of inconvenient facts.
I am thinking this helps you because the world scares you.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 08, 2016, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 08, 2016, 01:37:28 PM
Of course it's balderdash and irrelevant. It doesn't fit the liberal brainwashing.
More Kool Aid anyone?
Bill, it means that I do in fact believe the Earth itself is older than the 5000 - 6000 years old some Bible believers think it is. There is in fact evidence of it in the Bible. In Genesis and in Daniel.
Man has only been here for that length of time however.
I don't believe that anyone asked you how old the world was...huh?.....more red herring 'G'....you seem to pick out only a part of the discussion and take off on a diversion slant to la la land......please focus....you can do it....come on...
It stems from Bill's comment Jon.
Quote5) All of these changes would have happened many years ago, on time scales beyond those that you previously had said you believed (only biblical were acceptable to you that time). How can you use such evidence that you therefore have a basic disbelief in as evidence for your argument? Unless you will just stoop to using any kind of BS in your weak attempts to win an argument.
..ok, we've gone from guns to suns yada yada...now to beliefs, and Bibles...where next... huh
Hookers and Cocaine.
Quote from: ghonk on January 08, 2016, 05:36:06 PM
Hookers and Cocaine.
Beer mim and w!w would suit my taste more ;)
Jamaica sounds better to me, but who would take care of the fish?
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 08, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
Jamaica sounds better to me, but who would take care of the fish?
lights off...they're good for a few days, or so.... ;D
QuoteWhy Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w
You could do it legal out here in Oregon.
Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.
Quote from: BillT on January 08, 2016, 08:55:50 PM
QuoteWhy Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w
You could do it legal out here in Oregon.
Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.
Or here in Washington. But Jamaica is warmer...! w!w
Quote from: Ron Sower on January 09, 2016, 12:16:08 PM
Quote from: BillT on January 08, 2016, 08:55:50 PM
QuoteWhy Jamaica? How about here? lol w!w w!w w!w
You could do it legal out here in Oregon.
Hey, maybe that's why those Vanilla Isus clowns moved out here.
Or here in Washington. But Jamaica is warmer...! w!w
...yes, it is......Aruba is pretty nice too.... w!w
The hot weather and the beach are necessary in this case.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 12:54:01 PM
The hot weather and the beach are necessary in this case.
+1.....heck, if I hit the Powerball tonight.....I'll buy a whole freak'n island |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
I really liked Brando's over by Tahiti.... =;-)
If you hit Powerball pay our air fare and hotel to the island before you decide to buy it. An expensive purchase like that should get a test drive before you commit.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
If you hit Powerball pay our air fare and hotel to the island before you decide to buy it. An expensive purchase like that should get a test drive before you commit.
Oh hell yes.....we'll do a group tour... w!w
Altho Brando's place had no hotels....LOL.....you'll all need to bring hammocks |^|
Hammocks, of course, as well as mosquito netting and lots of deet. I hope you win. Can I bring my number one dog? Saint Puppy would have the time of his life. He wouldn't bark all night long but he would keep an eye open.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 09, 2016, 01:50:45 PM
Hammocks, of course, as well as mosquito netting and lots of deet. I hope you win. Can I bring my number one dog? Saint Puppy would have the time of his life. He wouldn't bark all night long but he would keep an eye open.
Mosquito's? ...screw Brando's islands.....we're off to Bora Bora...Cook Islands then......one of the few places without mosquitoes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
bring your swim suits, snorkels, etc....great diving there too..... |^|
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6556.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?A day after President Obama held a nationally televised town hall about guns in America, a new poll shows that a majority of Republicans would rather actually be shot by a firearm than agree with him.
In an indication of the challenges facing the President in persuading Republicans, those surveyed named a wide variety of specific guns that they would choose to be personally shot by rather than seeing eye to eye with Obama.
When asked to state their preference, forty-three per cent stated ?handgun,? twenty-seven per cent replied ?shotgun,? twenty-one per cent responded ?assault rifle,? while only two per cent named ?agreeing with Obama.?
The poll results are reminiscent of a poll taken last month about climate change, in which a majority of Republicans said they would rather see their habitat destroyed by rising sea levels than agree with President Obama.
There is none so blind.....
John Heywood 1546
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12391061_1027519093977260_7244403603552556477_n.jpg?oh=2c7243e47331b53c8a55713628c011e3&oe=56FC0351)
|^| |^| |^|
SOTU in (4) minutes.... |^|
https://r4---sn-nx5e6n7d.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?requiressl=yes&fexp=9408209%2C9408552%2C9416126%2C9419452%2C9420452%2C9421666%2C9422596%2C9423241%2C9423282%2C9423662%2C9423749%2C9426214%2C9426217%2C9426483%2C9427016&itag=22&ip=73.157.236.110&pl=17&ipbits=0&initcwndbps=2298750&nh=IgpwcjAyLnNlYTAzKgkxMjcuMC4wLjE&key=yt6&upn=xuca-e7TqCU&dur=255.651&ratebypass=yes&expire=1452737073&lmt=1452665667109912&ms=au&mv=m&mt=1452715416&mn=sn-nx5e6n7d&source=youtube&sver=3&sparams=dur%2Cid%2Cinitcwndbps%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Clmt%2Cmime%2Cmm%2Cmn%2Cms%2Cmv%2Cnh%2Cpl%2Cratebypass%2Crequiressl%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&id=o-AFUWR6HXo0iaXC-MEHXTY2pi3Y_xAPADaJ_tikcwXi2E&mm=31&signature=9EE9782EC3B25F9230CFA1257F74ECCD6C1CEC2C.0E8C195798D8597CC458BAD1D9FCF7FDD04F3D89&mime=video%2Fmp4 (//https:///videoplayback?requiressl=yes&fexp=9408209%2C9408552%2C9416126%2C9419452%2C9420452%2C9421666%2C9422596%2C9423241%2C9423282%2C9423662%2C9423749%2C9426214%2C9426217%2C9426483%2C9427016&itag=22&ip=73.157.236.110&pl=17&ipbits=0&initcwndbps=2298750&nh=IgpwcjAyLnNlYTAzKgkxMjcuMC4wLjE&key=yt6&upn=xuca-e7TqCU&dur=255.651&ratebypass=yes&expire=1452737073&lmt=1452665667109912&ms=au&mv=m&mt=1452715416&mn=sn-nx5e6n7d&source=youtube&sver=3&sparams=dur%2Cid%2Cinitcwndbps%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Clmt%2Cmime%2Cmm%2Cmn%2Cms%2Cmv%2Cnh%2Cpl%2Cratebypass%2Crequiressl%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&id=o-AFUWR6HXo0iaXC-MEHXTY2pi3Y_xAPADaJ_tikcwXi2E&mm=31&signature=9EE9782EC3B25F9230CFA1257F74ECCD6C1CEC2C.0E8C195798D8597CC458BAD1D9FCF7FDD04F3D89&mime=video%2Fmp4)
CHUMP
I wanted him to get the nomination because he could never win the general election. Trump will not get the nomination. The republican I most fear is Ted Cruise. He's smart. He could win.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on January 16, 2016, 10:39:06 PM
I wanted him to get the nomination because he could never win the general election. Trump will not get the nomination. The republican I most fear is Ted Cruise. He's smart. He could win.
Cruz is a basket case ...and will never be ready for 'prime time'..
Noam Chomsky Has 'Never Seen Anything Like This'
By Chris Hedges / truthdig.com
Noam Chomsky is America?s greatest intellectual. His massive body of work, which includes nearly 100 books, has for decades deflated and exposed the lies of the power elite and the myths they perpetrate. Chomsky has done this despite being blacklisted by the commercial media, turned into a pariah by the academy and, by his own admission, being a pedantic and at times slightly boring speaker. He combines moral autonomy with rigorous scholarship, a remarkable grasp of detail and a searing intellect. He curtly dismisses our two-party system as a mirage orchestrated by the corporate state, excoriates the liberal intelligentsia for being fops and courtiers and describes the drivel of the commercial media as a form of ?brainwashing.? And as our nation?s most prescient critic of unregulated capitalism, globalization and the poison of empire, he enters his 81st year warning us that we have little time left to save our anemic democracy.
?It is very similar to late Weimar Germany,? Chomsky told me when I called him at his office in Cambridge, Mass. ?The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system. The most striking fact about Weimar was not that the Nazis managed to destroy the Social Democrats and the Communists but that the traditional parties, the Conservative and Liberal parties, were hated and disappeared. It left a vacuum which the Nazis very cleverly and intelligently managed to take over.?
?The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,? Chomsky went on. ?Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like McCarthy or Nixon or the evangelist preachers. If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ?I have got an answer, we have an enemy?? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority. We will be told we have to defend ourselves and the honor of the nation. Military force will be exalted. People will be beaten up. This could become an overwhelming force. And if it happens it will be more dangerous than Germany. The United States is the world power. Germany was powerful but had more powerful antagonists. I don?t think all this is very far away. If the polls are accurate it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election.?
?I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime,? Chomsky added. ?I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today. But it was hopeful. People had hope. The CIO was organizing. No one wants to say it anymore but the Communist Party was the spearhead for labor and civil rights organizing. Even things like giving my unemployed seamstress aunt a week in the country. It was a life. There is nothing like that now. The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.?
?I listen to talk radio,? Chomsky said. ?I don?t want to hear Rush Limbaugh. I want to hear the people calling in. They are like [suicide pilot] Joe Stack. What is happening to me? I have done all the right things. I am a God-fearing Christian. I work hard for my family. I have a gun. I believe in the values of the country and my life is collapsing.?
Chomsky has, more than any other American intellectual, charted the downward spiral of the American political and economic system, in works such as ?On Power and Ideology: The Managua Lectures,? ?Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and US Political Culture,? ?A New Generation Draws the Line: Kosovo, East Timor and the Standards of the West,? ?Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky,? ?Manufacturing Consent? and ?Letters From Lexington: Reflections on Propaganda.? He reminds us that genuine intellectual inquiry is always subversive. It challenges cultural and political assumptions. It critiques structures. It is relentlessly self-critical. It implodes the self-indulgent myths and stereotypes we use to elevate ourselves and ignore our complicity in acts of violence and oppression. And it makes the powerful, as well as their liberal apologists, deeply uncomfortable.
Chomsky reserves his fiercest venom for the liberal elite in the press, the universities and the political system who serve as a smoke screen for the cruelty of unchecked capitalism and imperial war. He exposes their moral and intellectual posturing as a fraud. And this is why Chomsky is hated, and perhaps feared, more among liberal elites than among the right wing he also excoriates. When Christopher Hitchens decided to become a windup doll for the Bush administration after the attacks of 9/11, one of the first things he did was write a vicious article attacking Chomsky. Hitchens, unlike most of those he served, knew which intellectual in America mattered. [Editor?s note: To see some of the articles in the 2001 exchanges between Hitchens and Chomsky, click here, here, here and here.]
?I don?t bother writing about Fox News,? Chomsky said. ?It is too easy. What I talk about are the liberal intellectuals, the ones who portray themselves and perceive themselves as challenging power, as courageous, as standing up for truth and justice. They are basically the guardians of the faith. They set the limits. They tell us how far we can go. They say, ?Look how courageous I am.? But do not go one millimeter beyond that. At least for the educated sectors, they are the most dangerous in supporting power.?
Chomsky, because he steps outside of every group and eschews all ideologies, has been crucial to American discourse for decades, from his work on the Vietnam War to his criticisms of the Obama administration. He stubbornly maintains his position as an iconoclast, one who distrusts power in any form.
?Most intellectuals have a self-understanding of themselves as the conscience of humanity,? said the Middle East scholar Norman Finkelstein. ?They revel in and admire someone like Vaclav Havel. Chomsky is contemptuous of Havel. Chomsky embraces the Julien Benda view of the world. There are two sets of principles. They are the principles of power and privilege and the principles of truth and justice. If you pursue truth and justice it will always mean a diminution of power and privilege. If you pursue power and privilege it will always be at the expense of truth and justice. Benda says that the credo of any true intellectual has to be, as Christ said, ?my kingdom is not of this world.? Chomsky exposes the pretenses of those who claim to be the bearers of truth and justice. He shows that in fact these intellectuals are the bearers of power and privilege and all the evil that attends it.?
?Some of Chomsky?s books will consist of things like analyzing the misrepresentations of the Arias plan in Central America, and he will devote 200 pages to it,? Finkelstein said. ?And two years later, who will have heard of Oscar Arias? It causes you to wonder would Chomsky have been wiser to write things on a grander scale, things with a more enduring quality so that you read them forty or sixty years later. This is what Russell did in books like ?Marriage and Morals.? Can you even read any longer what Chomsky wrote on Vietnam and Central America? The answer has to often be no. This tells you something about him. He is not writing for ego. If he were writing for ego he would have written in a grand style that would have buttressed his legacy. He is writing because he wants to effect political change. He cares about the lives of people and there the details count. He is trying to refute the daily lies spewed out by the establishment media. He could have devoted his time to writing philosophical treatises that would have endured like Kant or Russell. But he invested in the tiny details which make a difference to win a political battle.?
?I try to encourage people to think for themselves, to question standard assumptions,? Chomsky said when asked about his goals. ?Don?t take assumptions for granted. Begin by taking a skeptical attitude toward anything that is conventional wisdom. Make it justify itself. It usually can?t. Be willing to ask questions about what is taken for granted. Try to think things through for yourself. There is plenty of information. You have got to learn how to judge, evaluate and compare it with other things. You have to take some things on trust or you can?t survive. But if there is something significant and important don?t take it on trust. As soon as you read anything that is anonymous you should immediately distrust it. If you read in the newspapers that Iran is defying the international community, ask who is the international community? India is opposed to sanctions. China is opposed to sanctions. Brazil is opposed to sanctions. The Non-Aligned Movement is vigorously opposed to sanctions and has been for years. Who is the international community? It is Washington and anyone who happens to agree with it. You can figure that out, but you have to do work. It is the same on issue after issue.?
Chomsky?s courage to speak on behalf of those, such as the Palestinians, whose suffering is often minimized or ignored in mass culture, holds up the possibility of the moral life. And, perhaps even more than his scholarship, his example of intellectual and moral independence sustains all who defy the cant of the crowd to speak the truth.
?I cannot tell you how many people, myself included, and this is not hyperbole, whose lives were changed by him,? said Finkelstein, who has been driven out of several university posts for his intellectual courage and independence. ?Were it not for Chomsky I would have long ago succumbed. I was beaten and battered in my professional life. It was only the knowledge that one of the greatest minds in human history has faith in me that compensates for this constant, relentless and vicious battering. There are many people who are considered nonentities, the so-called little people of this world, who suddenly get an e-mail from Noam Chomsky. It breathes new life into you. Chomsky has stirred many, many people to realize a level of their potential that would forever be lost.?
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/noam-chomsky-has-never-seen-anything-like-this/
Fact Checker at Republican Debate Hospitalized for Exhaustion
By Andy Borowitz
The fact checker started having heart palpitations and shortness of breath every time Ted Cruz spoke.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12439140_1184509274895906_8152418087990890727_n.jpg?oh=95f5c47dcd684038b71022475b6d4a26&oe=57387842)
2 Corinthians our friend the Trumpster...
http://mashable.com/2016/01/18/donald-trump-2-corinthians/#M8PTutdz7gqD
Since it hasn't been in national news much, here is from other sources.
Pretty much everyone wants them to go away. Many people want them arrested and think they should at least pay damages.
Rancher puts fence back up that the armed idiots took down between bird sanctuary and his ranch:
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/rancher_i_didnt_know_anything.html#incart_maj-story-1 (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/rancher_i_didnt_know_anything.html#incart_maj-story-1)
Sheriff says outsiders are trying to intimidate people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/sheriff_managing_oregon_stando.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/sheriff_managing_oregon_stando.html)
The Paiute Indians want them to leave:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0117/The-hostages-of-Oregon-standoff-4-000-Paiute-artifacts-video (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0117/The-hostages-of-Oregon-standoff-4-000-Paiute-artifacts-video)
Last year was once again the hottest year on record.
Many different groups came up with the same results:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2015-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-again/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2015-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-again/)
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.
Quote from: Mugwump on January 23, 2016, 04:37:55 PM
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.
What an idiot. It would almost be a guarantee that if he did that on Fifth Ave. someone would ice him him right away. ::)
Quote from: wsantia1 on January 23, 2016, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 23, 2016, 04:37:55 PM
Donald Trump: GOP Candidate Says He 'Could Shoot Somebody' And Wouldn't Lose Voters at Iowa Rally
?I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn?t lose any voters, okay?? Trump said at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, on Saturday.
What an idiot. It would almost be a guarantee that if he did that on Fifth Ave. someone would ice him him right away. ::)
Yup.....what an ego.....
There is no limit to Trump's craziness,nuttier then squirrel shit.
http://hardnoxandfriends.com/2016/01/04/al-gore-predicted-the-world-will-end-on-january-27th-2016/
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on January 23, 2016, 07:20:07 PM
http://hardnoxandfriends.com/2016/01/04/al-gore-predicted-the-world-will-end-on-january-27th-2016/
The upcoming elections too boring for you? ;D......back to more global warming arguments?
Bad predictions? I'll see that and raise it by a factor of 8 (2 of the 12 in this list are democrats; 10 - 2 = 8):
Almost every prediction republicans have made about the economy has been wrong because they are based in ideology rather than real economics. They especially like predictions about inflation. Its their favorite excuse to not spend money on anything they don't like.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/economic-predictions-that-were-wrong_n_1798301.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/economic-predictions-that-were-wrong_n_1798301.html)
SNL...Tina Fey doing Palin's endorsement.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL
https://youtu.be/OIhnSybqTR4
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on January 26, 2016, 10:21:06 PM
https://youtu.be/OIhnSybqTR4
Dennis
...what's this guy smoking?.....
Quote from: Mugwump on January 27, 2016, 05:07:36 AM
...what's this guy smoking?.....
Not sure..... heard them making many of the same points on the local PBS radio station the other day.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on January 27, 2016, 05:14:42 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 27, 2016, 05:07:36 AM
...what's this guy smoking?.....
Not sure..... heard them making many of the same points on the local PBS radio station the other day.
Dennis
All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?
Before Hillary, there was Shirley .....
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35057641?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=inxmail_newsletter&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine_news__&ns_linkname=na&ns_fee=0 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35057641?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=inxmail_newsletter&ns_campaign=bbcnewsmagazine_news__&ns_linkname=na&ns_fee=0)
Dennis
The GOP must have loved her.
This week in the latest twist on what has already been an extremely odd GOP primary, we learned that front-runner Donald Trump will not participate in Thursday night?s debate on Fox News. In what might be the final straw in his peculiar political tactics, Trump claimed he wouldn?t join the debate if Fox News commentator Megyn Kelly were a moderator. He even taped a video saying that he was justified since everyone knew that Kelly was biased against him.
But then it got weirder. Fox News backed Kelly and issued a statement ?Capitulating to politicians? ultimatums about a debate moderator violates all journalistic standards.? This from the network that has the reputation of the most biased, factually inaccurate reporting available on television today.
In addition to Fox News posing as a real news outlet, with serious interest in reporting, they also went after Trump with mockery and snark: ?the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. ? A nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings.?
It?s important to pause and digest the absolutely odd conjunction of Fox News blustering about its journalistic integrity and going after Trump with the sort of satirical sarcasm we get on late night comedy treatments of Trump. If you read that statement about Putin and Twitter followers without attribution, you might think that Stephen Colbert had penned it.
This was all the perfect setup for Michael Moore, who entered the circus performance for an interview with Megyn Kelly to promote his new film ?Where to Invade Next.?
Moore had made his mark on Fox News when he sparred with Bill O?Reilly in a famous interview back in July of 2004 after the two crossed paths at the Democratic National Convention and O?Reilly decided to have him on his show. The idea was to debate the claims offered in Moore?s controversial film ?Fahrenheit 9/11,? which made the case that George Bush lied to the U.S. public when he launched the Iraq War.
While that interview was legendary, it was nothing like the Kelly interview with Moore. Moore is an artful interviewee, using his considerable talents as a comedian to move the interviewer off of his or her talking points. In the O?Reilly interview he kept going back to the key question: Would you send your child to fight in Iraq?
?I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and ? you would?? ?I would sacrifice myself,? O?Reilly said. ?Where can we sign him up?? Moore replied, to which O?Reilly responded, ?You?d love to get rid of me.?
That exchange allowed Moore to reveal the deep contradictions in O?Reilly?s war-mongering rhetoric. Eventually O?Reilly is revealed as all bluster, no credibility?which is pretty much the Fox News profile.
But if Bill O?Reilly has been the ?papa bear? of Fox News, it is Kelly whom the network sees as its future. With an aging audience, Kelly is the network?s one hope of drawing in younger viewers. Kelly?s style, though, is a hybrid. Her reporting a sort of Frankenstein. At times, she hits hard ?with her probing question on Trump?s misogyny at the first GOP debate as a prime example. At other times, she echoes the Fox News idiocy like the time she insisted that Santa Claus and Jesus were white.
Moore?s interview really took her down the rabbit hole, though.
In a tweet setting up his visit Moore referred to Fox News as Beelzebub?s Den and Lucifer?s Lair. His plan, though, was to enter as an invader, a merciful one, but still an invader.
This, of course, was a reference to his new film, ?Where to Invade Next,? which is already being heralded by conservatives as an attack on the nation, more of the anti-American drivel they expect from libtards.
Except, as the interview reveals, those ideas are fictionalizations of Moore, who is about as patriotic as anyone could be. The only difference is that his idea of what would make America great is not the same as that of his so-called patriotic, Tea Party detractors.
His film is as much a love letter to America as any he has ever done. He visits other nations to ?invade? them for good social policies ? social policies that in most cases were originally modeled after U.S. ideas. Mocking the militaristic bent of much U.S. politics today, he reverses the trend and turns an ?invasion? into a learning expedition.
As he explained during the interview, and as Kelly herself would tweet later, ?If you watch my films you will know three things about me: I love this country, I have a heart, and you will laugh.?
The interview, though, did not focus much on the film. Instead it focused on Moore congratulating Kelly for scaring Trump so much that he ran away from the debate. He started by saying, ?I feel bad for you. What?s he afraid of? I?m sitting here, I don?t feel any fear.? Kelly replied that she was a ?pussycat.?
Then Moore played on the idea that Trump was bullying her, but that she had achieved what none of the other candidates could do: She exposed him for the megalomaniacal, controlling fraud he is. No serious presidential candidate can survive if they refuse to do a moderated debate because they don?t like the journalist on the dais.
But it was what came next that really exposed the hybrid, odd place that Kelly is in as a Fox News reporter. Kelly wanted to call out Moore for both supporting Hillary Clinton and calling her ?disgusting.? It was the sort of ?gotcha? that is bread and butter dumb reporting on Fox News. Moore, though, was able to calmly and rationally explain how he could both support her, especially in light of the ways she is so often viciously attacked in the media, and also criticize her for campaign tactics against Barack Obama.
Channeling the sort of ?invading? he does in his film, where he is both optimistic and critical, Moore schooled Kelly in political nuance.
The display went on as Kelly called him out for statements critical of Obama. As Moore reasonably explained that he could support the president and also expect more of him, Kelly found herself in the odd role of needing to take a side. So if Moore criticized Obama, Kelly couldn?t just agree with him. She had to disagree by actually defending him. When Moore explained he had wanted him to close Guant?namo, Kelly replied, ?He tried. You?re tough.?
That?s the thing, though. Moore is anything but tough. The interview showed his genuine warmth and congeniality. But in the land of Fox News you are either all in or at war. Kelly?s interview tactics simply couldn?t handle the idea that you could have complex opinions about a candidate.
And it also meant that she varied from being tough on Moore and charmed by him. The back-and-forth she went through was delicious to watch because it showed how Kelly herself is caught between being a reasonable, smart journalist and being a Fox News pitbull.
Moore?s smartest move, though, was to also refuse to pretend that Fox News itself isn?t a major player in GOP politics. As the interview was winding down, he made sure to make an important intervention: ?To get elected president in this country, you have to come on this network, you have to play ball with this network. Donald Trump today said, ?I?m not playing ball with this network.? That?s historic, and it will be interesting to see where the real power is.?
?You?ve made this happen,? Moore told Kelly. ?You caused a crisis upstairs here.? It all made Kelly uncomfortable, leading her to say she had only asked a question. But Moore wouldn?t let her play it down: ?You asked a great question, by the way! The war on women!?
?Now you?re really ruining my rep, I?ve got to get out of here,? Kelly said with a laugh.
The thing is that Moore did a lot more in his interview with Kelly than ruin her rep. He revealed the odd place she has found herself in as both the mouthpiece for reductive, binary, reactionary, right-wing thinking and also the voice of reason on a channel dominated by angry, white men. And that?s why we should all be asking where Michael Moore plans to invade next.
Sophia A. McClennen is Professor of International Affairs and Comparative Literature at the Pennsylvania State University. She writes on the intersections between culture, politics, and society. Her latest book, co-authored with Remy M. Maisel, is, Is Satire Saving Our Nation? Mockery and American Politics.
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/28/theres_no_beating_megyn_kelly_what_donald_trump_should_have_learned_from_her_fox_news_interview_with_michael_moore/
All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?
(//http://?)
The FiveThirtyEight.com site (part of ESPN, also does sports odds) tracks all decent polls and weights them based on how good their methods are (lots of obscure statistics reasons) and by their past history of how accurately they predict particular elections.
Here is their summary of the IOWA primaries:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/)
Switch to see others by selecting with the drop down menu at the top.
Quote from: BillT on January 28, 2016, 07:40:12 PM
All sides are very selective about which poll that they choose to flaunt....and there are many to choose from too...Iowa poll, Mass. Poll, polls for different age groups, yada yada..........who do we believe....?
(//http://?)
The FiveThirtyEight.com site (part of ESPN, also does sports odds) tracks all decent polls and weights them based on how good their methods are (lots of obscure statistics reasons) and by their past history of how accurately they predict particular elections.
Here is their summary of the IOWA primaries:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/iowa-republican/)
Switch to see others by selecting with the drop down menu at the top.
Interesting for sure..........thanks
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)
Quote from: BillT on January 29, 2016, 02:58:58 AM
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)
;D
Quote from: Mugwump on January 29, 2016, 05:47:10 AM
Quote from: BillT on January 29, 2016, 02:58:58 AM
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)
;D
It just made me hungry for donuts. Just not that one. |^|
Quote from: wsantia1 on January 29, 2016, 05:50:52 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 29, 2016, 05:47:10 AM
Quote from: BillT on January 29, 2016, 02:58:58 AM
Portland welcomes the Bundy gang with a donut:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article (http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/01/ammon_bundy_gets_his_own_voodo.html#incart_most-commented_portland_article)
;D
It just made me hungry for donuts. Just not that one. |^|
LOLOLOL...+1 |^|
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Pres. Obama issued the ninth veto of his presidency last Tuesday, rejecting a Republican resolution that would have overturned federal regulations on clean water. This vote took place in the middle of the Flint water crisis. Unbelievable!
Read more here: http://on.msnbc.com/1Sm3V5P
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/danzcolorplus6567.jpg)
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lol. My favorite Trump related thing was when he spoke to Liberty University and quoted from 2 Corinthians. Jerry Falwell still indorsed him ???
Quote from: LizStreithorst on February 01, 2016, 02:23:42 PM
Jerry Falwell still indorsed him ???
He must be like Lazarus..... Jerry passed away May 15, 2007.
Dennis
Forgive my mistake. It was Jerry Falwell JR. Trump spoke at a conservative Christian college and said, "Two Corinthians", and the prez of the university still endorsed him? I can't wrap my mind around that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/01/liberty-university-president-jerry-falwell-jr-insists-his-endorsement-of-donald-trump-is-a-personal-one/
Quote from: Mugwump on January 30, 2016, 06:29:28 AM
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Pres. Obama issued the ninth veto of his presidency last Tuesday, rejecting a Republican resolution that would have overturned federal regulations on clean water. This vote took place in the middle of the Flint water crisis. Unbelievable!
Read more here: http://on.msnbc.com/1Sm3V5P
MSNBC. Lest it be taken out of context why not post what the GOP is afraid this administration would do Jon?
I'll do it for you.
QuoteThe GOP says the administration is seeking to assert federal control over puddles, ditches, areas that are occasionally wet and other large sections of private or state land in violation of the intent of the Clean Water Act.
They say the rule would be disastrous to farmers, developers, landowners and other businesses that would need a federal permit for routine tasks such as digging ditches.
?The federal government shouldn?t be regulating every drop of water,? said House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Bill Shuster (R-Pa.), whose panel has authority over water policy.
?Just about every wet area in the country is open to federal regulation under this rule,? he added. ?The rights of landowners and local governments will be trampled.?
Given that you can be arrested for collecting rain water in some states I would err on the side of caution. I can guarantee you Jon Republicans don't want dirty air, water etc. You just can't trust what Hussein and his ilk will do.
I don't know anything about the clean water act,other then if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 12:19:25 AM
....if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.
Unfortunately that seems to be the motto these days. I can remember a day when I was proud to say I was a Republican, buts these haters that have taken over the party have ruined that sentiment.....
Dennis
Cruz Victory Gives Hope To Despised People Everywhere
By Andy Borowitz
Dozens of pariahs said that the Cruz triumph meant that ?the sky?s the limit? for widely hated people like them.
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 04:25:03 AM
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 12:19:25 AM
....if the GOP is against it,it must make sense and be a great idea.
Unfortunately that seems to be the motto these days. I can remember a day when I was proud to say I was a Republican, buts these haters that have taken over the party have ruined that sentiment.....
Dennis
Pretty much feel the same Dennis. I hate telling people I am a Republican. Usually I answer I am a Conservative. Look at all the damn RINOs. Like Ryan. More like Boehner lite.
Time for term limits for congress. And a term in prison for Hillary.
A term in prison for Hillary,whatever you do don't let facts get in the way,just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.
(https://giant.gfycat.com/CornyDesertedAmmonite.gif)
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 10:32:50 AM
...just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.
So that means you are Okay with her taking money from foreign governments while she was Secretary of State for the USA?
It's not been that long ago that behavior like that would have been deemed treason, and she would be swinging at the federal prison in Leavenworth Kansas.
They are not going to do anything, she one of the 'in' crowd.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 10:32:50 AM
...just put her in prison to satisfy your blind hatred.
So that means you are Okay with her taking money from foreign governments while she was Secretary of State for the USA?
It's not been that long ago that behavior like that would have been deemed treason, and she would be swinging at the federal prison in Leavenworth Kansas.
They are not going to do anything, she one of the 'in' crowd.
Dennis
Still questionable tho...
"Origin:With respect to this piece's myriad assertions about the Clinton Foundation, we are in the process of researching those claims. We do know, however, that it was not authored by syndicated columnist and political commentator Charles Krauthammer, to whom it has since become widely attributed:
Incorrect Attribution (speculation)
In January 2016, the above excerpt escalated in e-mail popularity. The assertion, attributed to media personality Charles Krauthammer, was that the Clinton Foundation was an elaborate money laundering scheme aimed at collecting untraceable funds.
While the screed was circulated widely, it didn't appear to have been written by Charles Krauthammer. We were unable to locate any credible iterations of it bylined or credited to him; additionally, early iterations from October 2015 merely mentioned Krauthammer at the start of the missive (but not as an author of the piece):
On 23 December 2015, iterations began appearing with a novel attribution: Charles Krauthammer. However, the earliest versions dated back to May 2015, and none at that time gave any credit to Krauthammer.
At the same time, a near-identical version of the text appeared as a comment on a 12 May 2015 blog post, without attribution. A 25 May 2015 iteration (also in the comments of an unrelated blog post) credited a "Dave Hollenbeck" as a possible author, and a 24 May 2015 version similarly credited Hollenbeck. On that date, a version appeared on Facebook; Krauthammer's name was neither appended nor even mentioned:
It has been surmised, but never proven....but...who knows.... huh
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her.
Quote from: Mugwump on February 02, 2016, 07:16:16 PM
It has been surmised, but never proven....but...who knows.... huh
I listened to a show on NPR months ago with one of Hillary's top aids stating the money was all legal and above board. She said basically the same for Hillary's own personal 'mail server' that was much more secure than the one provided by the federal government.
The only thing the aid failed to mention Hillary's ocean front property.....
https://youtu.be/nNlMzNUDM8s
Dennis
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 07:34:51 PM
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her.
At some point we have to start holding these people accountable for their actions.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: ghonk on February 02, 2016, 07:34:51 PM
You're right Dennis,drag the bitch from the podium and hang her.
At some point we have to start holding these people accountable for their actions.
Dennis
The court of public skepticism shouldn't be the venue tho.....face it the Clinton's have plenty of money/credit.....Bill's books and speaking engagements alone will cover the property with that 'chump' change....... LOL
Put the witch hunt to rest......if it happens, it happens......it's just hype and the truth may never be separated from it..... huh
So you are saying we just give them a pass?
Dennis
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking.
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking. (//http://?%20Put%20the%20witch%20hunt%20to%20rest.%20Just%20asking.)
Kinda makes sense to me.
I think there were similar ideas about the Bush crew, but they are no longer active in politics, so no one really cares much about them now.
Going after retired politicians for past deeds just not something done very often in American politics. I think it goes along with a long time view that American politics should not be like the other civs that preceded us and killed their old leaders when a new one took over. Too vindictive.
The dominant view through American history has been to let old politicians go away and die. This was done a lot after the Civil War.
However, since Hillary is alive and politic'ing, she is drawing attention which does not seem unjustified since she is seeking a political office.
Legally, innocent till proven guilty. Politically, she has potential problems that may become bigger with time or may not. This is part of the choices Democrats face in choosing between her and Sanders. This is just something she will have to live with.
On the other hand, the Republicans currently seem to really like attacking Democrats in this way. Perhaps it because of their inability to get their ideas accepted sufficiently in elections. It seems to me, that this is just another case of them going way overboard in their complaints and reliance on questionable assumptions.
Quote from: JR on February 02, 2016, 08:37:20 PM
I try not to talk politics on any forums it never ends well for me. I just want to ask you one thing Jon. If it was Democrats going after a Republican For the same thing they are going after Clinton for. Would you say the same thing? Put the witch hunt to rest. Just asking.
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 02, 2016, 08:31:44 PM
So you are saying we just give them a pass?
Dennis
It was Dennis's words about a 'pass'....I never said that.....I merely stated that nothing has ever been proven....and actually the mud slinging on the Repub side is mostly the same way.....just mud throwing....and lots of it..oh, and it'll get worse here soon too..
All this rhetoric thrown around is just to cast doubt about a candidates character....some of the mud will likely stick too...but I tired of not hearing anything about what some of these candidates will do if elected...attack politics leaves me cold....
We've had some fun in this thread posting junk about candidates....but if you were going to the polls to vote, and had to read our banter...you'd think it was a TV sitcom comedy....All of the candidates have been thrown under the bus here....usually by one of those extreme mud slinging, implicating, political cartoons...or a satirist making us laugh....and we've fallen for it..to the point of getting personal about it.... isn't it a statement of the country's mood about politics that we've allowed ourselves to get sucked in....?
I want to vote for the best possible person to lead our country..screw the parties..attack ads and all too....unfortunately this time around our choices are pretty slim....they each bring credibility doubts with them about having the tools to lead.....
..and now, Trump gets nominated for the Nobel Peace prize...
Quote from: Mugwump on February 03, 2016, 06:56:17 AM
I want to vote for the best possible person to lead our country..screw the parties..attack ads and all too....unfortunately this time around our choices are pretty slim....they each bring credibility doubts with them about having the tools to lead.....
Amen to that. |^|
Dennis
PSA, you won't find this info elsewhere:
Here is a link to a pretty good little article on the positions of the various candidates (including now former candidates) on a variety of scientific issues: funding, NASA, Climate change, vaccines, and GMO crops.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/science-campaign-trail-where-presidential-candidates-stand?utm_campaign=email-news-latest&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=251897 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/science-campaign-trail-where-presidential-candidates-stand?utm_campaign=email-news-latest&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=251897)
Interestingly, there is a fair amount of diversity in the Republican statements on climate change.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1517459_999441546733490_4102851214284863069_n.jpg?oh=afc559501a9ecdc2cfe3a345b76de0a7&oe=57707C05)
Dennis
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Dennis
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The two parties are so different from each other these days that it is as if they are from separate universes, or are addressing different species of creature. The fundamental issue to be decided this election is whether the American people intend to continue as people of reasoning, or whether to abandon it altogether and follow Trump or Cruz down the rabbit hole.
Hillary?s humility moment: A rabbi walks into a Town Hall and asks a question you?d never hear in the GOP debates
Watching the Democrats' town hall on CNN felt like entering an alternate election universe, where calm prevails
The only downside to being a Democrat in this election cycle?besides the looming, horrible fear that we could lose the White House, the only major segment of the American government that is currently controlled this party?is that while the primary process for the Republicans is a continued race to the bottom, the primary process for this party is a careful, shades-of-gray conversation about different versions of progressivism. It?s not a conversation with a lot of fireworks, although certainly both candidates? supporters have their own exciting hashtags. Instead, after tonight?s Democratic presidential candidates town hall on CNN, hosted by Anderson Cooper, one is left feeling a little listless and introspective, pondering the difference between campaigning and policymaking, integrity and the appearance of it, ?I am but dust and ashes? and ?the world was created for me.?
That last dichotomy was presented by a rabbi in the audience?Rabbi Jonathan Spira-Savett, of Temple Beth Abraham in Nashua, to be exact. Per CNN?s transcript:
Rabbi Simcha Bunim taught that every person has to have two pockets, and in each pocket they have to carry a different note. And the note in one pocket says the universe was created for me. And in the other pocket the note says I am just dust and ashes.
I want you to take a moment and think about what you would tell us about your two pockets. How do you cultivate the ego, the ego that we all know you must have?a person must have to be the leader of the free world?and also the humility to recognize that we know that you can?t be expected to be wise about all the things that the president has to be responsible for?
Spira-Savett?s question is one of balance, which is discussed more here, and it was directed specifically at Former Secretary Hillary Clinton?meaning that each candidate?s half of the town hall each contained a sprinkle of Jewish spirituality. It is a totally bizarre question to ask a presidential candidate. It?s difficult to imagine a question about the fundamental struggles of being a person directed at either Donald Trump or Senator Marco Rubio, while Megyn Kelly and Dr. Ben Carson looked on. But it was kind of a glorious one, too, and one that gets to the heart of why Democrats are Democrats. Being president is not just about winning, as Trump has repeatedly insisted it is. It?s about maintaining both your own humanity and the humanity of those you?re serving, and that is a wrenching tension that has grayed the hair of every president since Reagan.
The rabbi asked about finding a way between two apparent polar opposites, and that is a question that came up again and again last night. Moderate and progressive; big money and small donations. Likeability and electability and viability and longevity. Appearance and reality. [Senator Bernie Sanders chuckled when Cooper asked him about his Larry David impersonation. ?Are you doing your Larry David right now?? the moderator asked. ?I am Larry David,? Sanders retorted.] Sanders has a tendency to appear hectoring, while Clinton appears defensive; both were at their relative best, which included falling back on their own well-worn talking points from time to time. Clinton experienced some hiccups, because she?s under the delusion that she deserves the presidency. Sanders avoided questions about process, because his campaign rests on the enthusiasm for revolution, not the aftermath. Neither has the sheer charisma of Bill Clinton or the youthful enthusiasm of Barack Obama; both raise serious questions they haven?t quite yet answered.
But both are tolerable candidates. The town hall was transport to an alternate universe where these aren?t just our primary candidates, they?re our candidates, period; where we have the luxury of choosing between two sane and well-intentioned humans to be our next president. The Republican candidates barely came up at all, in either the questions or the responses. Instead Clinton and Sanders discussed their policies, each other, and when absolutely necessary, themselves?with more calm and honesty than either have delivered since this primary began. The town hall was about bringing together opposites and having a reasonable discussion about them, but outside, the storm that is going to be the general election is beginning to whip up to fever pitch, just like that blizzard that is apparently opening up over New Hampshire on Election Day.
Last night?s show was a little oasis of taking the measure of shades of gray, in an election where my choice, at least, is made mostly by other people. The dream of the town hall is a nice one, too, a bubble separate from the dust and ashes that make up most of American politics.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/04/hillarys_humility_moment_a_rabbi_walks_into_a_town_hall_and_asks_a_question_youd_never_hear_in_the_gop_debates/
Monica Lewinsky released the following statement on Hilary Clinton's run for President:
--
"I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. The last Clinton presidency left a bad taste in my mouth.
As we get closer to the 2016 election year, citizens must remember that they cannot even trust Hillary Clinton to create American jobs.
The last time she had a meaningful job, she outsourced it to me and I simply blew it."
You would think that bad taste would be gone by now.
Quote from: JR on February 05, 2016, 07:03:32 AM
You would think that bad taste would be gone by now.
LOL....I always wondered if she 'Tripp'd' when leaving the White House?
Quote from: Mugwump on February 05, 2016, 07:00:36 AM
Monica Lewinsky released the following statement on Hilary Clinton's run for President:
--
"I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. The last Clinton presidency left a bad taste in my mouth.
As we get closer to the 2016 election year, citizens must remember that they cannot even trust Hillary Clinton to create American jobs.
The last time she had a meaningful job, she outsourced it to me and I simply blew it."
Well we've come full-circle..... another lap anyone?
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 11, 2015, 08:10:10 AM
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Dennis
Dennis
Bernie Sanders Doesn?t Know Diddly-Squat About Wall Street
But if he did, he might like it.
by
William D. Cohan
?I do not know any progressive who has a super-PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street," the avuncular socialist and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders told Anderson Cooper at Wednesday evening?s Democratic town-hall event. ?That?s just not progressive.?
Indeed, Senator Sanders has gotten a lot of mileage by bashing Wall Street ?billionaires.? His call for a ?political revolution? usually includes a reference or two to how Wall Street is full of greedy bankers who ?drove this economy to its knees? in 2008 and should return the favor of being bailed out by transferring some of their wealth to the struggling American middle class.
These are great applause lines, and it?s easy to see why. Since the full extent of the financial crisis began unfolding eight years ago, the general public has come to view bankers as a group of reprobates who, for large fees, packaged up shoddy home mortgages as securities and sold them off around the world as good investments?even when, in many cases, they knew full well that they were not. The fact that the Department of Justice let the wrongdoers off scot-free has only exacerbated this ire.
Sanders is right that Wall Street still needs reform. The Dodd-Frank regulations fail to measure up; Wall Street lobbyists and $1000-an-hour attorneys work away each day to gut the meager reforms signed into law by President Barack Obama in July 2010. It is also unconscionable that Wall Street?s compensation system continues to reward bankers, traders, and executives to take big risks with other people?s money in hopes of getting big year-end bonuses. Thanks to this system, which has been prevalent since the 1970s, when Wall Street transformed itself from a bunch of undercapitalized private partnerships (where those partners had serious capital at risk every day) to a group of behemoth public companies (where the risk is borne by creditors and shareholders while the rewards go to the employees), Wall Street has become ground zero for one financial crisis after another.
But Sanders never talks about the compensation system on Wall Street. In fact, he rarely mentions anything concrete at all. Instead, he dwells on bizarre and nebulous notions such as imposing ?a tax on Wall Street speculation,? as he did during his speech on Monday night. This tax, Sanders noted, will generate ?hundreds of billions? of dollars in annual revenue and help pay for his proposed program to make tuition free at public colleges and universities.
ut what exactly is Sanders proposing and does it make any sense? The answer to the first question is: it is difficult to tell. The candidate?s website does not really flesh out the idea, other than to say that the tax ?will reduce risky and unproductive high-speed trading and other forms of Wall Street speculation.? If one goes back to a bill that Sanders introduced in the Senate last May, there is slightly more meat on these bones; still, the proposed legislation seems to have very little to do with actually taxing ?Wall Street speculation? and more to do with taxing every trading transaction?the buying and selling of stocks and bonds and derivatives?that Wall Street and hedge funds engage in. This, of course, makes no sense whatsoever?why tax the very behavior the system depends upon??and it is probably why Sanders?s legislation went nowhere and why he doesn?t talk about it anymore.
Even if Sanders eventually elaborates on his plan more fully, does taxing Wall Street speculation even make any sense? That one is simple: nope, and it actually reveals the candidate?s ignorance about our banking system. Simply put, Wall Street?s purpose is to re-allocate capital from people who have it (savers) to those who want it (borrowers) and then use it to grow businesses that employ billions of people around the globe and help give them a modicum of wealth that they did not have before. One man?s speculation, in other words, is another man?s risk-taking. Without people willing to take those risks, and having the chance to reap their reward, there wouldn?t be an Apple, a Google, a Facebook, or countless other large corporations. The billions of people around the world who are employed by thriving companies would lose their jobs.
On a more prosaic level, few of the local businesses associated with Sanders?s home turf, Vermont, would ever exist without Wall street, either. After all, who might prop up the capital for those inns or ski shops or cheese stores or small manufacturers or maple-syrup producers? Indeed, some 80 percent of American industry is comprised of small businesses, nearly all of which are financed by debt.
Other tenets of Sanders?s poorly articulated economic agenda include breaking up the ?Too Big to Fail? banks and reinstituting some form of the Glass-Steagall Act, which in the 1930s forced investment banking to be separated from commercial banking and was repealed in 1999. These ideas are both nonsensical and archaic and show, again, that Sanders and his advisers have little if any understanding of how Wall Street works and?like it or not?how important its proper functioning is to our way of life.
If Sanders was serious about reform, a good place to start would be through overhauling the compensation system so that risk-taking remains encouraged but the traders, bankers, and executives who take those risks are also held accountable for them, financially and legally, when they go wrong. If you really want to change people?s behavior, you have to change what you reward them to do. And if we could do that, I bet even Bernie Sanders would learn to appreciate Wall Street, too.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/02/bernie-sanders-doesnt-understand-wall-street
..thanks to the OP....
George Carlin said, ?The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.?)
He also said that we are so obsessed with germs, that they swab a convicts arm with alcohol before administering a lethal injection.
A true philosopher, I never tire of listening to him on YouTube.
Dennis
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(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/danzcolorplus6570.jpg)
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Chris-Christie-Quits-728x375-1454958674.jpg)
NEW HAMPSHIRE (Satire from The Borowitz Report)?In a stunning announcement on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said that he was dropping out of the Presidential race to focus his energies on tormenting Florida Senator Marco Rubio full-time.
?At the end of the day, running for President was interfering with what I really love, which is making Marco Rubio?s life a living hell,? he said. ?Now I can get up every morning and spend all day just doing that.?
Christie said that he had tired of fielding questions about ISIS, immigration, and the economy and having to find some contrived way of answering them with a scathing attack on Rubio. ?Don?t get me wrong, I was great at it,? he said. ?But it?ll be so much easier to just get out there and start tearing him apart with no pretext whatsoever.?
The New Jersey governor, who plans to bring his message of character assassination to all fifty states, did not indicate how he would finance this mission. ?I?ll pay for it myself if I have to,? he said. ?If, looking back on my life, I can say that I ground Marco Rubio into the dirt, I will die a happy man.?
Asked what his first stop would be after leaving the campaign trail, Christie said, ?I want to reconnect with my family, hug my kids, and tell them what a douche Marco is.?
Big business Hillary will say anything to get into the White House.....
https://youtu.be/vczoazK1mxU
Dennis
Wow...they went back 13yrs to take sound bites about topics that everyone wobbled on..including our Presidents and Congressmen?....not to mention the public in general?.....boy, it's a good thing to think and change one's mind and views........unless you're a candidate....LOL
Oh....Bernie doesn't have a 'Super PAC'.....but.....it top five contributors are tech company's....oh my
before you run off to check Hillary's....it was George Spiros.....7 million big ones...but.....she doesn't say she doesn't have the 'Super PAC's'....interesting, Bernie gets the big money too.....but likes the illusion that he can't be bought.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL......gotta love politics....all this will only get worse too....enjoy.... ;D
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I can't stomach politicians. :(
Quote from: wsantia1 on February 11, 2016, 01:51:46 PM
I can't stomach politicians. :(
|^|..especially during election years too....
Quote from: wsantia1 on February 11, 2016, 01:51:46 PM
I can't stomach politicians. :(
Come one Willie, we ALL love Hillary LOL
https://youtu.be/kypl1MYuKDY
Dennis
LOL...Dennis. are you trolling? ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 05:54:24 AM
LOL...Dennis. are you trolling? ;D
Just entertaining myself. LOL
I had no idea of the amount of video based on Hillies antics to be found on YouTube. It's breathtaking. LOL I may just be getting started! |^|
Dennis
...LOL....have at it... |^|
....Can you imagine this type of campaigning back in 'Ike's' day?....Kay Summersby and all....JFK and his harem...'tail gunner Joe'..'Pumpkin papers'...yada yada.....there would have been some ugly vids floating around, just like what we have gotten for the last 20+ years....
I can't wait for it to be over with.
Then they can start bitching about how Clinton is destroying this once great nation, for the next 8 years.
I wonder if she's going to be a undercover Muslim too,or maybe a in the closet lesbian.
(http://img.humorsharing.com/media/images/1602/i_at_last_its_friday_gifs_007_56bda25a8ba17.gif)
Quote from: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 09:08:08 AM
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I love Bernie. He's a young old guy. This is the worst possible time for him to become president. Our country is not ready for him :( My heart is still on his side. My head tells different.
Trump's Book Store
So, I was walking through Chicago and I saw that there was a "Muslim Book Store.?
I was wondering what exactly was a Muslim bookstore, so I went in.
As I was wandering around taking a look, the clerk stopped me and asked if he could help me.
I imagine I didn't look like his normal clientele, so I asked, "Do you have a copy of Donald Trump's new book on his U.S. Immigration Policy regarding Muslims and Illegal Mexicans??
The clerk said, "F**k off, get out and stay out!?
I said, "Yes, that's the one. Do you have it in paperback?"
Quote from: Mugwump on February 12, 2016, 07:09:15 PM
Trump's Book Store
So, I was walking through Chicago and I saw that there was a "Muslim Book Store.?
I was wondering what exactly was a Muslim bookstore, so I went in.
As I was wandering around taking a look, the clerk stopped me and asked if he could help me.
I imagine I didn't look like his normal clientele, so I asked, "Do you have a copy of Donald Trump's new book on his U.S. Immigration Policy regarding Muslims and Illegal Mexicans??
|^| |^| He is such an easy target. Why people like him so much is over my head.
The clerk said, "F**k off, get out and stay out!?
I said, "Yes, that's the one. Do you have it in paperback?"
Justice Antonin Scalia dead at 79.....
I've been learning more about him. All I knew before that he was a big deal conservative justice who's beautifully written descents were often quoted on NPR. Turns out that he was a guy who I would disagree with but respect.
The Republicans have all but vowed to refuse to accept anyone who Obama nominates, regardless of who it is ::) I am sick to death our country being so polarized. I have but one friend who I can get into a shouting spitting argument about politics with and not make an enemy of. What our country needs is more respect for the integrity of a man who can disagree and still be respected. We have a senator, Thad Cochran, down here. I disagree with him but I still respect him.
Rubio Abruptly Departs G.O.P. Debate After Low-Battery Warning
By Andy Borowitz
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Marco-Low-Battery-690x460-1455378823.jpg)
GREENVILLE, South Carolina (The Borowitz Report)?Senator Marco Rubio of Florida was forced to leave Saturday night?s crucial Republican Presidential debate after suffering what aides called a ?low-battery warning.?
Rubio?s abrupt departure occurred immediately following his opening statement, which started in a spirited manner but concluded with the senator uttering the word ?Obama? no fewer than a dozen times in succession.
With the other candidates and debate moderators looking on, Rubio?s eyes appeared to roll back in his head, which fell forward and came to rest on his podium.
As the unconscious Rubio stood motionless onstage, moderators momentarily panicked.
?We didn?t know what was going on,? the moderator, John Dickerson, said. ?This is the sort of thing we?ve come to expect from Ben Carson, but not Rubio.?
Aides immediately rushed onstage and removed Rubio, who is expected to return to the campaign trail on Sunday.
?This is on us,? a Rubio aide said. ?Fully charged, Marco is capable of going for up to ten hours.?
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12744633_1068060973286956_4286538927128628399_n.jpg?oh=a9d52fe45a9cc6bde1b41a081f6918f3&oe=5766DF9B)
Let's put it off and let Hillary pick one! I'm sure she's got a long list of folks who know the laws and how to work around them..... LOL
https://youtu.be/ueDWLP2nOtU
Dennis
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf
Quote from: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf
She is probably hoping she gets to pick..... she is liable to need a good judge before it's all over! :D :D :D
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 15, 2016, 11:01:29 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on February 15, 2016, 10:28:39 AM
...LOL.......sarcasm much.... wfwf
She is probably hoping she gets to pick..... she is liable to need a good judge before it's all over! :D :D :D
Dennis
Naw...if they had anything real on her...they'd have already used the opportunity......these are sleazy 'Repub's' remember... ;D..oh goodness, where's Lindsey?....
If I remember right in 07 Schumer said about the same thing McConnell just said. Bush had about 8 months left in his term. The Republicans cried as much as the Democrats are now.
Quote from: JR on February 15, 2016, 06:24:44 PM
If I remember right in 07 Schumer said about the same thing McConnell just said. Bush had about 8 months left in his term. The Republicans cried as much as the Democrats are now.
Yup...sometime around 2000 too, when Ike was in his last year...
https://youtu.be/1G-oHzb6DX8
Dennis
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
Quote from: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 06:15:00 AM
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
I always assumed we would afford it the same way the rest of the FREE world affords theirs. Our health care sucks in every way compared to other countries.....
I think the real question should be, How can we NOT afford it?
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 16, 2016, 06:22:12 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on February 16, 2016, 06:15:00 AM
?Funding H.R. 676: The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act ? How we can afford a national single-payer health plan in 2014,? by Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
I always assumed we would afford it the same way the rest of the FREE world affords theirs. Our health care sucks in every way compared to other countries.....
I think the real question should be, How can we NOT afford it?
Dennis
...and to think that if Congress had only worked with the President, we might be closer to that......too many outside $$$'s muddling the water
ClubOrlov
published on tuesdays
So far I have mostly tried to ignore the US presidential race. It's a distraction from doing things that are either pleasant or useful?of which it is neither. I haven't always tried to completely ignore these torrents of nonsense that erupt every four years like a gushing sewer, but, in general, I was never interested in the outcome, because in all but one case I genuinely disliked all of the candidates. Jimmy Carter is the only one whose hand I would shake. I wouldn't want to breathe the same air with any of the others?all lizard-brained miscreants who have left a slimy trail through the White House.
As I understand it, the way this system is supposed to work is as follows. There is just one good, solid reason to vote for the Democratic candidate: to keep out the Republicans, who are so much worse than the Democrats. And there is just one good, solid reason to vote for the Republican candidate: to keep out the Democrats, who are so much worse than the Republicans. Now, you may ask yourself, How is it possible for both sides to be worse at the same time? Well, you are right, that's not possible. Obviously, they have to take turns at becoming the worst. Whoever happens to be in office adds another turn to the downward spiral.
This seems like a good, solid arrangement?if the goal is to produce the most bloated, corrupt, criminal, warmongering, terrorist-coddling, bankrupt government the Earth has ever known?it is, indeed, all of these things. But it has just one tiny flaw: getting people to vote for you by teaching them to hate the other side is effective, but it's purely negative. To introduce a positive, aspirational element, it is necessary to somehow make people feel that it is possible to bring about political change by voting for someone within the Democratic or the Republican party. Of course, this is sheer nonsense, because the only people pulling the strings are the ones who write the checks, and you don't get to vote for any of them. But people don't want to believe that they are completely powerless, and the same people who fell for it in thinking that they could bring about change by voting for Obama are now falling for it again, thinking that they can bring about change by voting for Bernie. No, you can't possibly ever change things by voting for the Democratic/Republican duopoly. Oh, and you can't possibly ever change things by voting against it either. Sorry, Jill Stein.
So that's how it goes, generally, getting worse and worse each time. But things can't just continue to going from bad to worse forever; eventually, something has to give. At some point there must come a phase transition, or an inflection point, or some sort of political collapse scenario. And this year seems somewhat atypical because the quality of the candidates is so poor.
On the Democratic side, we have Hillary the Giant Flying Lizard, but she seems rather impaired by just about everything she has ever done, some of which was so illegal that it will be hard to keep her from being indicted prior to the election. She seems only popular in the sense that, if she were stuffed and mounted and put on display, lots of folks would pay good money to take turns throwing things at her. And then we have Bernie, the pied piper for the ?I can't believe I can't change things by voting? crowd. He seems to be doing a good job of it?as if that mattered.
On the Republican side we have Donald and the Seven Dwarfs. I previously wrote that I consider Donald to be a mannequin worthy of being installed as a figurehead at the to-be-rebranded Trump White House and Casino (it is beneath my dignity to mention any of the Dwarfs by name) but Donald has a problem: he sometime tells the truth. In the most recent debate with the Dwarfs he said that Bush lied in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. Candidates must lie?lie like, you know, like they are running for office. And the problem with telling the truth is that it becomes hard to stop. What bit of truthiness is he going to deliver next? That 9/11 was an inside job? That Osama bin Laden worked for the CIA, and that his death was faked? That the Boston Marathon bombing was staged, and the two Chechen lads were patsies? That the US military is a complete waste of money and cannot win? That the financial and economic collapse of the US is now unavoidable? Even if he can stop himself from letting any more truthiness leak out, the trust has been broken: now that he's dropped the T-bomb, how can he be relied upon to lie like he's supposed to?
And so we may be treated to quite a spectacle: the Flying Lizard, slouching toward a federal penitentiary, squaring off against the Donald the T-bomber. That would be fun to watch. Or maybe the Lizard will implode on impact with the voting booth and then we'll have Bernie vs. the T-bomber. Being a batty old bugger, and not wanting to be outdone, he might drop some T-bombs of his own. That would be fun to watch too.
Not that any of this matters, of course, because the country's trajectory is all set. And no matter who gets elected?Bernie or Donald?on their first day at the White House they will be shown a short video which will explain to them what exactly they need to do to avoid being assassinated. But I won't be around to see any of that. I've seen enough. This summer I am sailing off: out Port Royal Sound, then across the Gulf Stream and over to the Abacos, then a series of pleasant day-sails down the Bahamas chain with breaks for fishing, snorkeling and partying with other sailors (I know, life is so hard!), then through the Windward Passage, a stop at Port Antonio in Jamaica, and then onward across the Caribbean to an undisclosed location. Please let me know if you want to crew. I guarantee that there will be absolutely no election coverage aboard the boat.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2016/02/what-are-we-smelling.html#more
So why do people hate Hillary so much? Most people have never even met her. I remember the right wing hate machine went after her the moment Bill was elected. At first they made fun of her appearance "not feminine enough, and who does her hair?" Sexist comments, but she listened and got a makeover. Then she became a "Bitch", a term I've come to understand as meaning "any strong woman that terrifies the caveman conservatives that want women to stay subversive to men."
To be blunt, most attacks I've seen against Hillary are sexist in nature.
How many people know that Hillary started off as Republican? If political ambition was all she was about why in the world would she change her party affiliation to Democrat in ARKANSAS?
The truth is that Mrs. Clinton is still fairly conservative. She's also a "hawk" militarily, meaning she has not hesitated to advocate a military solution when further diplomacy might have been the best option. I suspect Hillary was an Eisenhower Republican, disillusioned by Nixon, as I suspect many Republicans were in her day. Furthermore, the Democratic Party is now far more conservative than it was in the days of Kennedy. So she sits politically, more in tune with Eisenhower than Reagan.
So just what are people afraid of? Many have heard stories about her temper--mostly as it has been directed (justly no doubt) at her errant husband. However, I've never heard of her throwing a temper tantrum in the Senate isles or anywhere else. It is also worth noting that all the many people who have worked for her over the years attest that she is a good boss. Demanding, yes, sometimes preoccupied (goes with the territory IMO), but fair and generous in her praise. She has expressed genuine concern about her colleagues and subordinates, and she has been unerringly polite and gracious in public.
Now contrast this with some of Hillary's past colleagues in the Senate and current competitors for the presidency. Front runners Cruz and Trump are positively famous for blowing their stacks, shaming and abusing their staff, and even occasionally ranting and raving. Cruz in particular is HATED by his colleagues in the Senate.
So what is the real fear?
Then are some that worry electing Mrs. Clinton to the Presidency will spread the disease of Clintonism. But what are the symptoms of this dread malady on the body politic? Low unemployment? High growth? Low inflation? Soaring productivity?
Too liberal? But too liberal compared with whom? Charles Schumer? Paul Wellstone? Brian Schatz? Chris Murphy? Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders?
So what are the Hillary-bashers so scared of?
I agree with you. Hillary's biggest problems are that the country had never been so divided, and that she doesn't have the charm that Obama and her husband have. She is most certainly strong. She has withstood the slings and arrows for a very long time now.
Bernie would be wonderful, but his agenda is way too liberal for our time. He's my first best choice but if he were to be elected our country would become even more divided. Is that not the last thing we need?
Quote from: LizStreithorst on February 16, 2016, 02:48:33 PM
I agree with you. Hillary's biggest problems are that the country had never been so divided, and that she doesn't have the charm that Obama and her husband have. She is most certainly strong. She has withstood the slings and arrows for a very long time now.
Bernie would be wonderful, but his agenda is way too liberal for our time. He's my first best choice but if he were to be elected our country would become even more divided. Is that not the last thing we need?
I agree with both of you.
Is anyone else listening to the President's speech live? I am.
https://youtu.be/3XriXDtfqCg
Dennis
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL......said as only the 'Great One' could say it.....good one Dennis |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
lol. That was too funny. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^| mim mim mim mim mim
That was perfection, Dennis. Thanks
I know I like to pick on poor old Hillary, but NO ONE is safe. LOL
Dennis
What states does Sanders have to win, to win nomination?
538 analysis:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/)
Quote from: BillT on February 17, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
What states does Sanders have to win, to win nomination?
538 analysis:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/)
I'm sure it'll get interesting, but most these polls rely on speculation.......we'll just have to wait and see, I guess..... huh
Don?t get too attached to these: The state-by-state estimates are pretty rough. But they?re calibrated in such a way2 so as to provide a reasonable benchmark of what a 50-50 race would look like. Maybe Michigan is less favorable to Sanders than this estimate holds, for example. That?s fine, but it means he?ll need to make up ground in another state.The starting point for these estimates is state-by-state polling from Morning Consult, a non-partisan polling and media firm that has surveyed about 8,000 Democrats online since Jan. 1. That?s a lot of responses, although not enough to provide an adequate sample size for all 50 states; while there are about 800 respondents from California in the sample, for instance, there are only a dozen or so from Montana.
Hillary will probably be indicted by then and it won't make any difference LOL
https://youtu.be/zG8OQRoKJs4
Dennis
(http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/blogs/trumptourism.jpg?itok=fMaoSPsM)
A Canadian island is urging Americans to make it their new home should Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump win the White House in November.
?Hi Americans!? a statement on a tourism website for Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, reads. "Donald Trump may become the next president of your country. If that happens, and you decide to get the hell out of there, might I suggest moving to Cape Breton Island?"
The statement adds: "Don?t wait until Election Day to find somewhere else to live!
?Start now ? that way, on Election Day, you just hop on a bus to start your new life in Cape Breton, where women can get abortions, Muslim people can roam freely and the only ?walls? are holding up the roofs of our extremely affordable houses.?
The website then explained its rationale for seeking potential American residents disgusted by the prospect of a Trump administration.
?We are an island about the same size as the Hawaiian Big Island on the east coast of Canada,? its statement reads. "We always rank high on travel magazine lists of beautiful islands, but we are experiencing a bit of a population problem at the moment.
?We need people [and] we need you! This is not a joke! See for yourself ? you belong here on Cape Breton Island, where healthcare is free, you know your neighbors and they look out for you and nobody has a hand gun.?
Cape Breton Island also details some of its unique features as a North Atlantic tourist destination.
?In Cape Breton, we value diversity,? its tourism site reads. "Here, you can hear a number of other languages, like French and Mi?kmaq, even Gaelic! But everybody speaks English, too, just like you.
?Yes, this is Canada, but Cape Breton isn?t frozen all year round! Our summers are delightful with highs in the 80-degree range. Winters here are very similar to the Northeast USA."
I wonder what the IT market looks like there?? I always loved Canada as a child..... great people and beautiful country. It always amazed me how clean they kept things compared to our littering ways here in the USA.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:38:40 PM
Hillary will probably be indicted by then and it won't make any difference LOL
https://youtu.be/zG8OQRoKJs4
Dennis
...says Issa.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....worst scenario...a fine and slap on the wrist.....
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers. LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:53:18 PM
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers. LOL
Dennis
Which were perfectly legal, until the 'Repub's' passed a motion not to allow private server storage anymore....then they try to retro charge her after the fact....lots a mud slinging and false statements to go around by both sides, huh?
Jon you love Hillary more than Slick Willie himself. LOL Of course, I probably love her more than Billy Bob, I'm definitely more faithful..... LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Jon you love Hillary more than Slick Willie himself. LOL Of course, I probably love her more than Billy Bob, I'm definitely more faithful..... LOL
Dennis
naw....I'm not in love with her, but having Bill back in action is intriguing ...no?....Bernie has a good heart, however, unattainable intentions....and if he turns red as a beet during debates....Putin will put him in a box....poof....
Quote from: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 03:03:11 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:53:18 PM
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers. LOL
Dennis
Which were perfectly legal, until the 'Repub's' passed a motion not to allow private server storage anymore....then they try to retro charge her after the fact....lots a mud slinging and false statements to go around by both sides, huh?
Actually Jon it wasn't "perfectly legal".
There are four laws she broke.
Section 1924 of Title 18 of the U.S. Crimes and Criminal Procedure Code is one.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on February 18, 2016, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on February 17, 2016, 03:03:11 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on February 17, 2016, 02:53:18 PM
Yep, Hillary ought to market those broom-closet super secure mail servers. LOL
Dennis
Which were perfectly legal, until the 'Repub's' passed a motion not to allow private server storage anymore....then they try to retro charge her after the fact....lots a mud slinging and false statements to go around by both sides, huh?
Actually Jon it wasn't "perfectly legal".
There are four laws she broke.
Section 1924 of Title 18 of the U.S. Crimes and Criminal Procedure Code is one.
.....for her to store on her computer instead of Government servers was legal when she started doing it......this was changed after the fact.....as far as the content stored, yes...it's still she said, they said....as for laws broken, that has yet to be proven, except according to Fox Entertainment....
Conspiracy Theorists Say Republican Party Did Not Die from Natural Causes
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Conspiracy-Theory-Republican-Party-690x460-1455811220.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Conspiracy theorists believe that the Republican Party did not die from natural causes but was instead the target of an elaborately planned killing, a leading conspiracy theorist has confirmed.
Harland Dorrinson, whose basement walls are covered with photos of suspects in the killing of the G.O.P., has spent countless hours connecting those photos with different colors of yarn in the hopes that a larger pattern would emerge.
?Because the Republican Party is one hundred and sixty-one years old, it?s assumed that it was time for it to die,? he said. ?The truth is, that?s exactly what the people who killed it want us to think.?
While some conspiracy theorists have focussed on the billionaire Donald J. Trump as the most likely suspect in the death of the Republican Party, Dorrinson favors a ?two-killer? theory that involves Arizona Senator John McCain and former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.
?McCain tapped Palin to be his running mate, and that led directly to people like Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, and Donald Trump being considered credible candidates,? he said. ?There is no logical reason why McCain would have chosen Palin unless he wanted to kill the Republican Party.?
In addition to the McCain-Palin cabal, Dorrinson is considering a host of other suspects, including the industrialists David and Charles Koch, the Fox News chairman Roger Ailes, and the novelist Ayn Rand.
?The only suspect I have definitively ruled out is Mitch McConnell,? he said. ?No matter how hard I tried, I couldn?t imagine a scenario where he accomplished something.?
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12743534_10207887329968337_8240180190847319266_n.jpg?oh=75edd7094e9a4699f87a96f7f6f0d91e&oe=57693E7B)
https://youtu.be/0OwPPOu1yk4
Dennis
LOL...going to steal that top pic.....LOL.... |^|
If the climate is changing and getting hotter, than each year should be hotter than the next.
now its each month is hotter (than the same month in the previous year I guess):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/20/its-official-2015-smashed-2014s-global-temperature-record-it-wasnt-even-close/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/20/its-official-2015-smashed-2014s-global-temperature-record-it-wasnt-even-close/)
Sea level rise will not be equal everywhere. The ice on Greenland and Antarctica have a gravitational attraction on oceanic water. When the ice caps melt, that gravitational attraction will decrease letting more water flow away from those locations and pile up elsewhere. Its kind of like the tides (due to lunar gravitation).
http://nautil.us/issue/33/attraction/why-our-intuition-about-sea_level-rise-is-wrong (http://nautil.us/issue/33/attraction/why-our-intuition-about-sea_level-rise-is-wrong)
Apparently this will be bad news for the east coast.
Quote from: BillT on February 19, 2016, 05:00:22 PM
If the climate is changing and getting hotter, than each year should be hotter than the next.
now its each month is hotter (than the same month in the previous year I guess):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/20/its-official-2015-smashed-2014s-global-temperature-record-it-wasnt-even-close/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/20/its-official-2015-smashed-2014s-global-temperature-record-it-wasnt-even-close/)
Sea level rise will not be equal everywhere. The ice on Greenland and Antarctica have a gravitational attraction on oceanic water. When the ice caps melt, that gravitational attraction will decrease letting more water flow away from those locations and pile up elsewhere. Its kind of like the tides (due to lunar gravitation).
http://nautil.us/issue/33/attraction/why-our-intuition-about-sea_level-rise-is-wrong (http://nautil.us/issue/33/attraction/why-our-intuition-about-sea_level-rise-is-wrong)
Apparently this will be bad news for the east coast.
I don't think that we'll see the full effect in our lifetime. nor our kids in their's either....
I would agree with that.
Quote from: BillT on February 19, 2016, 05:48:18 PM
I would agree with that.
by the by, our very strong El Nino, which is a good part of the 2015 heat spike...is usually followed by a strong La Nina....with our El Nino fading fast, we could enjoy a nice cooler summer ?????
If so, it might be patchy.
Nicer in some places but worse in others.
Oh, and yeah, that Ted Cruz picture is great!
http://www.mapquest.com/avoidtrump/?ncid=bannadusmq000001 (http://www.mapquest.com/avoidtrump/?ncid=bannadusmq000001)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12573037_1019405251435919_2553561667376810670_n.jpg?oh=84ff2880f6589277fb3e4c64b17b5494&oe=575C6418)
The cop. You know it has to be someone else fault Never the parents our the kids.
I'm one to follow my heart but when it comes to this election I'll be following my head. I will not vote for the guy I love because I don't think that he would not be good for the country as a whole right now. We as a country are so divided now. My man would only make it worse. There are republicans who would divide us further. Once upon a time I wanted the guy with the hair to get the nomination because he would surely loose. Now I'm not so sure. People I like are for him ???
As it stands I hope that it comes down to Rubio and Clinton. I would suffer some if Marco were to will but I wouldn't have to pick up my life and move to that lovely Canadian island =;-)
Obama Signs Executive Order Relocating Congress to Guant?namo
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Borowitz-Obamas-Popularity-Soars-690.jpg)
WASHINGTON (Satire from The Borowitz Report)?Making good on one of his key campaign promises, President Obama signed an executive order on Tuesday relocating the United States Congress to Guant?namo Bay, Cuba.
The President seemed to relish signing the order, calling the relocation a ?win-win for America,? and indicating that Congress could be moved to its new headquarters ?immediately.?
?We don?t envision doing any renovations to the facility down there,? he said. ?It is ready to house Congress right now.?
The President did not specify what the current U.S. Capitol building would be used for in the future, but he hinted that it could be the setting for historic re?nactments in the manner of Colonial Williamsburg.
?I think it could be fascinating to school groups,? he said. ?It could really take them back to the olden days when it was a real, functioning place.?
Minutes after the President signed the order, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) called it ?an outrage? and ?grounds for impeachment,? but Obama appeared to take such howls of protest in stride.
?If Congress believes that this executive order is illegal, they can take it up with the Supreme Court,? he said. ?Oh wait?we don?t have a Supreme Court.?
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12745688_1209261115754055_7215865865084731861_n.jpg?oh=60f9a3bccd415b0439bb3c2abcae70e8&oe=57233CE6)
The Governing Cancer of Our Time
David Brooks
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIOSHHTUcAA3Iho.jpg)
We live in a big, diverse society. There are essentially two ways to maintain order and get things done in such a society ? politics or some form of dictatorship. Either through compromise or brute force. Our founding fathers chose politics.
Politics is an activity in which you recognize the simultaneous existence of different groups, interests and opinions. You try to find some way to balance or reconcile or compromise those interests, or at least a majority of them. You follow a set of rules, enshrined in a constitution or in custom, to help you reach these compromises in a way everybody considers legitimate.
The downside of politics is that people never really get everything they want. It?s messy, limited and no issue is ever really settled. Politics is a muddled activity in which people have to recognize restraints and settle for less than they want. Disappointment is normal.
But that?s sort of the beauty of politics, too. It involves an endless conversation in which we learn about other people and see things from their vantage point and try to balance their needs against our own. Plus, it?s better than the alternative: rule by some authoritarian tyrant who tries to govern by clobbering everyone in his way.
As Bernard Crick wrote in his book, ?In Defence of Politics,? ?Politics is a way of ruling divided societies without undue violence.?
Over the past generation we have seen the rise of a group of people who are against politics. These groups ? best exemplified by the Tea Party but not exclusive to the right ? want to elect people who have no political experience. They want ?outsiders.? They delegitimize compromise and deal-making. They?re willing to trample the customs and rules that give legitimacy to legislative decision-making if it helps them gain power.
Ultimately, they don?t recognize other people. They suffer from a form of political narcissism, in which they don?t accept the legitimacy of other interests and opinions. They don?t recognize restraints. They want total victories for themselves and their doctrine.
This antipolitics tendency has had a wretched effect on our democracy. It has led to a series of overlapping downward spirals:
The antipolitics people elect legislators who have no political skills or experience. That incompetence leads to dysfunctional government, which leads to more disgust with government, which leads to a demand for even more outsiders.
The antipolitics people don?t accept that politics is a limited activity. They make soaring promises and raise ridiculous expectations. When those expectations are not met, voters grow cynical and, disgusted, turn even further in the direction of antipolitics.
The antipolitics people refuse compromise and so block the legislative process. The absence of accomplishment destroys public trust. The decline in trust makes deal-making harder.
We?re now at a point where the Senate says it won?t even hold hearings on a presidential Supreme Court nominee, in clear defiance of custom and the Constitution. We?re now at a point in which politicians live in fear if they try to compromise and legislate. We?re now at a point in which normal political conversation has broken down. People feel unheard, which makes them shout even louder, which further destroys conversation.
And in walks Donald Trump. People say that Trump is an unconventional candidate and that he represents a break from politics as usual. That?s not true. Trump is the culmination of the trends we have been seeing for the last 30 years: the desire for outsiders; the bashing style of rhetoric that makes conversation impossible; the decline of coherent political parties; the declining importance of policy; the tendency to fight cultural battles and identity wars through political means.
Trump represents the path the founders rejected. There is a hint of violence undergirding his campaign. There is always a whiff, and sometimes more than a whiff, of ?I?d like to punch him in the face.?
I printed out a Times list of the insults Trump has hurled on Twitter. The list took up 33 pages. Trump?s style is bashing and pummeling. Everyone who opposes or disagrees with him is an idiot, a moron or a loser. The implied promise of his campaign is that he will come to Washington and bully his way through.
Trump?s supporters aren?t looking for a political process to address their needs. They are looking for a superhero. As the political scientist Matthew MacWilliams found, the one trait that best predicts whether you?re a Trump supporter is how high you score on tests that measure authoritarianism.
This isn?t just an American phenomenon. Politics is in retreat and authoritarianism is on the rise worldwide. The answer to Trump is politics. It?s acknowledging other people exist. It?s taking pleasure in that difference and hammering out workable arrangements. As Harold Laski put it, ?We shall make the basis of our state consent to disagreement. Therein shall we ensure its deepest harmony.?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/26/opinion/the-governing-cancer-of-our-time.html
..Classic...
https://www.facebook.com/JimmyKimmelLive/videos/10153934150233374/ (https://www.facebook.com/JimmyKimmelLive/videos/10153934150233374/)
Happy super Tuesday everyone wfwf
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 01, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
Happy super Tuesday everyone wfwf
...it'll be an interesting day for sure...
Quote from: Mugwump on March 01, 2016, 08:33:11 AM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 01, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
Happy super Tuesday everyone wfwf
...it'll be an interesting day for sure...
Sheesh!!! wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf
For some reason my chrome browser is showing up Drumpf . ;D
Quote from: ghonk on March 01, 2016, 09:52:45 AM
For some reason my chrome browser is showing up Drumpf . ;D
+1...that it is... wfwf
All is not lost, folks. Today is also National Peanut Butter Day :)
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 01, 2016, 01:53:30 PM
All is not lost, folks. Today is also National Peanut Butter Day :)
Yup....just scarfed up a PBJ too.... |^|
Quote from: Mugwump on March 01, 2016, 02:13:28 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 01, 2016, 01:53:30 PM
All is not lost, folks. Today is also National Peanut Butter Day :)
Yup....just scarfed up a PBJ too.... |^|
I would venture most scarf a sandwich down not up.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 01, 2016, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 01, 2016, 02:13:28 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 01, 2016, 01:53:30 PM
All is not lost, folks. Today is also National Peanut Butter Day :)
Yup....just scarfed up a PBJ too.... |^|
I would venture most scarf a sandwich down not up.
..nope.....scarfed up off my plate.... ;D
U.S. government posts $55 billion budget surplus in January
The U.S. government posted a $55 billion budget surplus in January, up from an $18 billion deficit in the same month a year ago, the Treasury Department said on Wednesday.
Analysts polled by Reuters had expected a $45 billion surplus for last month. Treasury officials said the surplus was boosted by the highest receipts on record for the month of January.
Receipts last month totaled $314 billion, while outlays stood at $258 billion.
Increased receipts of individual and social insurance taxes contributed to the surplus, a Treasury official said.
Differences in monthly calendar adjustments, including $42 billion in outlays as a result of a benefits payments shift into December 2015, also contributed to the surplus.
Accounting for those adjustments, the January surplus was $15 billion, compared to an adjusted $2 billion surplus in the same month a year ago.
The current fiscal year-to-date deficit stood at $160 billion, compared to a deficit of $194 billion at the same point last year.
(Reporting by Megan Cassella; Editing by Paul Simao)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-budget-idUSKCN0VJ2AN
Republicans are reaping what they've sown.....
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/harry-reid-donald-trump-republicans-220116?cmpid=sf (http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/harry-reid-donald-trump-republicans-220116?cmpid=sf)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 03, 2016, 07:06:32 AM
Republicans are reaping what they've sown.....
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/harry-reid-donald-trump-republicans-220116?cmpid=sf (http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/harry-reid-donald-trump-republicans-220116?cmpid=sf)
Dennis
...boy, how true.....scary, huh?
Frank Drumpf
Representative Emily Virgin
22 hours ago
The House is currently considering a measure that would kick 111,000 people off Medicaid in Oklahoma. This is in addition to the Oklahomans who are not eligible for Medicaid because our state has not accepted federal dollars to expand the program. This is par for the course this legislative session -- the measures we have seen thus far have focused on balancing the budget on the backs of low-income individuals.
And this is coming from a body that constantly (just yesterday, in fact) talks about being "pro-life."...
How do they think this is going to solve anything? Are people going to stop being sick now? Great plan, Republican House. Great plan. Why not put some of that economic burden on some of the health insurance companies who make billions every year instead of the poor, working class? Guess who is going to have to help those who walk-in uninsured and become bankrupt due to medical expenses? That's right, the American tax-payers. And now they just made that process a whole lot more expensive. I swear, I've never seen such stupidity coming from the right.
FOX23 News
I guess we might get to see how well this works out. Oklahoma, like Missouri, has refused to take the allocated (or "free", depending on your level of understanding of what government actually exists for...) money offered by the Federal government to extend its Medicaid programs. My guess is there will be a new migration of poor Okies, much like in the Great Depression.
FOX23 News
Quote from: Mugwump on March 03, 2016, 03:34:18 AM
U.S. government posts $55 billion budget surplus in January
The U.S. government posted a $55 billion budget surplus in January, up from an $18 billion deficit in the same month a year ago, the Treasury Department said on Wednesday.
Analysts polled by Reuters had expected a $45 billion surplus for last month. Treasury officials said the surplus was boosted by the highest receipts on record for the month of January.
Receipts last month totaled $314 billion, while outlays stood at $258 billion.
Increased receipts of individual and social insurance taxes contributed to the surplus, a Treasury official said.
Differences in monthly calendar adjustments, including $42 billion in outlays as a result of a benefits payments shift into December 2015, also contributed to the surplus.
Accounting for those adjustments, the January surplus was $15 billion, compared to an adjusted $2 billion surplus in the same month a year ago.
The current fiscal year-to-date deficit stood at $160 billion, compared to a deficit of $194 billion at the same point last year.
(Reporting by Megan Cassella; Editing by Paul Simao)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-budget-idUSKCN0VJ2AN
So in reality we have $25 billion in extra money. When do I get my share of that extra cash?
QuoteAlready, the Treasury appears to be taking a hit. Total receipts were up 2% in January, but corporate tax collection fell by 8% in the month. For the fiscal year, corporate receipts are down 10%. The Congressional Budget Office said in a report last week that the tax deal reduced companies? liabilities and may have affected the timing of tax payments. The agreement extended several provisions retroactively to the beginning of 2015.
The CBO is projecting a deficit of $544 billion for fiscal 2016, which would be more than $100 billion above the shortfall for 2015.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/25tji9l.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10303755_781636561941708_3145846532719037499_n.png?oh=ad66ec7cb115be99e4eff20664a9f6ad&oe=575ED3D3)
Dennis
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/danzcolorplus6594.jpg)
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 06, 2016, 08:27:34 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10303755_781636561941708_3145846532719037499_n.png?oh=ad66ec7cb115be99e4eff20664a9f6ad&oe=575ED3D3)
Dennis
She also got 4 men killed. Lost $6 billion during her stay at the State Department.
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 07, 2016, 09:20:56 AM
I don't agree with everything this guy says, but I do respect him for having an opinion and not being afraid to express it.....
Dennis
I though religion was off limits on the forum.
Yes, it is.....bad enough we post the political crap....but better politics on this one thread. than anyplace else on the forum.....
Hey G,you mean you're not blaming the 4 deaths on Obama,you're slipping.
Quote from: ghonk on March 07, 2016, 09:51:26 AM
I though religion was off limits on the forum.
ALL gone..... I guess I wasn't paying much attention to his religious BS, my bad. ???
Dennis
MAHER 2016
https://youtu.be/bq7k7S0O7n8
Dennis
Quote from: ghonk on March 07, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
Hey G,you mean you're not blaming the 4 deaths on Obama,you're slipping.
Got to put the blame where it belongs. She's the one that claimed she could answer the 3 am call and all she did was roll over. She even took responsibility for getting them killed.
Some people think the Republican party may break up.
Here's some analysis and history on party break-ups:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-political-parties-splinter/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-political-parties-splinter/)
Good article. Thanks. I myself have not seen so much division in the parties since the civil rights/Vietnam era. Back then is was the Democratic party falling to pieces.
Although they were working on it for about 20 years before that time, this is when much of the Democratic party's loss of their "solid South" occurred.
A lot of that was due to the voting rights act and other things Johnson did, which was followed up by Nixon's "Southern strategy".
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/10624709_1239226942758865_834592009925496842_n.jpg?oh=75fd0fe54d97ed8c84cf421e51e04e2e&oe=5797FD98)
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/14da3754fb3390b9ff39487f10434310/tumblr_o3uuq0E2w61qz6f9yo1_500.jpg)
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/10/graydon-carter-donald-trump
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 11, 2016, 07:25:03 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/10/graydon-carter-donald-trump
LOL.... ?Short-Fingered Vulgarian?
Perfect, isn't it?
Quote from: Mugwump on March 11, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/14da3754fb3390b9ff39487f10434310/tumblr_o3uuq0E2w61qz6f9yo1_500.jpg)
It approxi-quote Bloom County: "That which gives reason to live".
(http://56.media.tumblr.com/940301eec089eb306fd17ad2251ce2d0/tumblr_o3hbwfPDii1qauaefo1_1280.jpg)
If 473 people in a developing country were somehow responsible for 2.9 million votes in an election, we?d call that fraud. Our government would refuse to recognize such a leader ? particularly if those 473 people didn?t represent anything remotely similar to the actual will of the people. We?d call the election a sham and demand they do it over in a ?free and fair? manner.
Yet, that's exactly what's happening in the Democratic Party. It would appear that our democracy isn't as true as we make it out to be.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210)
Dennis
...but the door swings both ways here...the Repub's are as guilty as any....plus they are the party of severe gerrymandering to block out the voters in districts to their advantage...
Oh yea, no doubt. It's just that the article was about the dems.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 12, 2016, 08:48:49 AM
Oh yea, no doubt. It's just that the article was about the dems.....
Dennis
I know....and the reply was about showing equal guilt ..... ;D
My take on politics....What a crock!!!
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 12, 2016, 06:43:51 AM
If 473 people in a developing country were somehow responsible for 2.9 million votes in an election, we?d call that fraud. Our government would refuse to recognize such a leader ? particularly if those 473 people didn?t represent anything remotely similar to the actual will of the people. We?d call the election a sham and demand they do it over in a ?free and fair? manner.
Yet, that's exactly what's happening in the Democratic Party. It would appear that our democracy isn't as true as we make it out to be.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210)
Dennis
I think that it lines up perfectly with the democrat mantra. Taker from those who have and make and give to those that don't. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Hillary needs more votes.
Personally I vote for her.
To go to prison.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 12, 2016, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 12, 2016, 06:43:51 AM
If 473 people in a developing country were somehow responsible for 2.9 million votes in an election, we?d call that fraud. Our government would refuse to recognize such a leader ? particularly if those 473 people didn?t represent anything remotely similar to the actual will of the people. We?d call the election a sham and demand they do it over in a ?free and fair? manner.
Yet, that's exactly what's happening in the Democratic Party. It would appear that our democracy isn't as true as we make it out to be.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210)
Dennis
I think that it lines up perfectly with the democrat mantra. Taker from those who have and make and give to those that don't. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Hillary needs more votes.
Personally I vote for her.
To go to prison.
And I vote for Trump!
To Go To HELL!!!
Quote from: wsantia1 on March 12, 2016, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 12, 2016, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on March 12, 2016, 06:43:51 AM
If 473 people in a developing country were somehow responsible for 2.9 million votes in an election, we?d call that fraud. Our government would refuse to recognize such a leader ? particularly if those 473 people didn?t represent anything remotely similar to the actual will of the people. We?d call the election a sham and demand they do it over in a ?free and fair? manner.
Yet, that's exactly what's happening in the Democratic Party. It would appear that our democracy isn't as true as we make it out to be.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-superdelegates-corrupt-tool-party-establishments-article-1.2555210)
Dennis
I think that it lines up perfectly with the democrat mantra. Taker from those who have and make and give to those that don't. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Hillary needs more votes.
Personally I vote for her.
To go to prison.
And I vote for Trump!
To Go To HELL!!!
LOL.....he got hell in Chicago.... |^|
A very good read....
////////////////
I?m a Democrat who believes that we need a healthy Republican Party?a party that?s strong in the places ours is weak.
Democrats need Republicans to point out where tax dollars are being wasted, programs are being abused, and regulations aren?t worth the cost. We need them pushing us to reform education, and rein in the cost of government-funded health care and retirement benefits. We need them to fight with us over the right amount of immigration and gun control; over the right level to set the minimum wage; over the right price to put on carbon pollution.
Democrats need Republicans to argue that military action is sometimes necessary and even just, and that our right to privacy must be balanced with our desire for security. We need them to remind us about the importance of faith, family, and personal responsibility. We need them to call us out when we?re acting smug, self-righteous, and morally superior (oh, you didn?t think people noticed?)
Democrats have plenty of other problems, too. Our politicians can be overly cautious, packaged, and calculating; a little too close to Wall Street and too tied to Washington. Our presidential candidates hover around the age of 70, our bench of talent is too shallow, and the drop-off in young voters since 2008 is one of the reasons we got our asses handed to us in the off-year elections of 2010 and 2014, costing us control of Congress as well as dozens of governorships and state legislatures.
Still, for all of our faults and challenges, the Democratic Party is a functioning institution. Our leaders in Congress command a high degree of respect and loyalty among Democrats in the House and Senate. Our primary is a contest between a candidate of the center-left and the far-left who have both showered praise on the leader they?re vying to succeed. And though Barack Obama has had his share of mistakes and disappointments, he has also quietly and steadily become one of the party?s most beloved and consequential presidents of all time. If Obama could run for a third term against any candidate we?ve seen, he would easily win.
The Republican Party, on the other hand, is no longer a functioning institution. It is a failed state, overrun by a nihilistic insurgency that is about to depose the establishment conservatives who let them in through the front door. It is a party that cannot govern itself, let alone the rest of the country.
In Washington, there is much pearl-clutching and think-piecing about how the storied party of Lincoln and Reagan could have possibly been hijacked by the likes of Donald Trump and former Zodiac Killer Ted Cruz?as if, until this campaign, the Republican Party had been humming along smoothly as a big tent full of cheery capitalists enthused about freedom; as if we didn?t know about the crazies they hide in the attic between elections.
But of course, we did know. Many of us have seen this chaos coming for quite some time.
I first saw it in 2008, when the Republican Party?s original grifter, Sarah Palin, told an angry mob that Barack Hussein Obama ?didn?t see America like they did?; that he was ?palling around with terrorists,? plural. I saw it when she stood by and said nothing as the mob shouted ?treason!? and ?terrorist!? I saw it in the look on John McCain?s face when he was booed at a town hall meeting after telling a woman that Obama was a ?decent family man,? and not an untrustworthy Arab, like she believed?a look that said, ?What have I done??
I saw the chaos coming in the early years of the Obama Administration, when the opposition was less guttural but just as strident; when the Republican leadership ordered its members to oppose every part of the president?s agenda; when they openly strategized that the path back to power required denying Obama a single moment of bipartisan cooperation?even during a national crisis; even before he announced what was in a proposal; even when he offered a health care plan that looked just like the Republican alternative to Hillarycare in 1993; a plan that was nearly identical to the reform that had just been passed by the Republican Governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney.
I saw the insurgency take shape in the apocalyptic response to a piece of legislation so radical that it maintained America?s system of private health insurance. But this time, it wasn?t enough for Republican politicians to simply oppose Obamacare?to say, ?I think it costs too much because of X? or ?I don?t think it will work because of Y.? Instead, they were advised by party strategists to tell their constituents that Obamacare was ?a government takeover? because ?takeovers are like coups?they both lead to dictators and a loss of freedom.?
What followed were the absurdist claims that Obamacare included death panels. We heard perpetually confused brain surgeon Ben Carson say that the bill was ?the worst thing that happened in this nation since slavery.? We watched a Congressman interrupt the President of the United States during a live national address to call him a liar for claiming that Obamacare wouldn?t insure illegal immigrants?which, by every account, was 100 percent true.
Is it any wonder, then, that Tea Partiers took to the streets? Is it really so shocking that one of them waved a sign outside the Capitol which threatened gun violence if Republicans failed to stop the Affordable Care Act? And when the bill still passed with a majority of votes in both houses of Congress?a radical strategy that Obama learned about from the Constitution?is it terribly surprising that Tea Partiers were swept into power on a wave of anti-government rage that was stoked by Fox and Rush and millions of dollars in bullshit ads?
We saw what came next. Over and over, President Obama would try to negotiate with Speaker Boehner on taxes and spending. The negotiations would fail. And Official Washington would blame the two men for not recreating its favorite wet dream: Ronald Reagan and Tip O?Neill, solving the world?s problems with a glass of whiskey and a handshake after a hard day?s work.
Obama liked Boehner. He?d say the Speaker reminded him of the Republicans with whom he used to play cards and cut deals in the Illinois state Senate. Obama also knew the truth about Boehner: he was a man who wanted to compromise, but couldn?t. The Tea Partiers wouldn?t let him. The only Obama plan they?d ever pass would have to give Republicans 100 percent of what they wanted?all spending cuts, no taxes, full repeal of Obamacare, defunding Planned Parenthood, and on and on. If these demands weren?t met, they would shut down the government, or force a default on our debt that would cause an even bigger crisis than the Great Recession. And if Boehner chose to go around the Tea Party?if he decided to pass anything with the help of Democratic votes ? the Tea Party would choose a new Speaker.
For a long time, Boehner decided to keep his job. He thought he could appease the hostage-takers, even though he was one of the hostages. And most establishment Republicans followed the same strategy?wink, nod, give the crazies just a little bit of what they want.
In the 2012 election, I watched Mitt Romney, the man who was once my moderate governor, say that 47 percent of Americans ?believe that they are victims? and that he could ?never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.? I watched him publicly embrace the endorsement of a man who funded an investigation to prove that the President of the United States was a Kenyan-born imposter?a decision that helped legitimize Donald J. Trump, the monster who now haunts America?s waking nightmare.
I saw Jeb Bush, who once called it an ?act of love? to accept undocumented immigrants, say that America should only accept terrorized refugees who are Christian. I saw Marco Rubio, who once had the courage to work with President Obama to reform immigration, say that President Obama has hurt and weakened America?deliberately. And even now, as the party now faces the prospect of nominating a xenophobic demagogue who was, of all things, a Clinton donor, elected Republicans stand quietly by and repeat their hostage statements:
?I intend to support the nominee,? says Paul Ryan, moments after he called out Trump?s flirtation with the KKK. ?I intend to support the nominee,? says Mitch McConnell, as he rallies the Senate to block hearings for Obama?s Supreme Court choice before even knowing who it is?one final attempt to delegitimize this President on his way out the door. ?I intend to support the nominee,? say the presidential candidates, who, at the last debate, couldn?t even bring themselves to condemn Trump for the hate and violence he?s incited at his rallies. And now, finally, after scenes of chaos at a rally that had to be cancelled in Chicago, Rubio and Kasich are wavering on that pledge with that same mixture of shock and sadness we saw from John McCain at that Town Hall in 2008: ?What have I done??
It?s a funny thing about appeasement. The conservative hawks are right?it doesn?t work. At the end of the day, the Tea Party did force John Boehner out of office. No one clapped for Jeb. No one cared about Mitt?s speech. Little Marco is on life support. John Kasich is 0-20. And the party is left to choose between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump: the crazy insider vs. the crazy outsider; one of the most hated men in Washington vs. one of the most hateful men in America. And even if Hillary beats them in November, which I believe she will, the forces that have been unleashed will not go quietly into the night. You can already hear what they?ll say in order to rob her of the same legitimacy they tried to steal from Obama: ?She?d be in jail if his Justice Department didn?t protect her.?
In the last few months, I?ve become frustrated, and at times scared, by this stark reality?which, I can tell you, doesn?t happen easily to an Obama Kool-Aid drinker like me. What?s worse is that I can?t seem to tear myself away from it all?the Nazi-like oaths, the dick-measuring debates, the Twitter taunting. You start to understand why the crazy is so addictive.
I was asked to offer some commentary one of these debates recently, and before I left for the studio, I started scrolling through the news to make sure that I was up to date on Donald Trump?s latest reaction to Donald Trump?s latest performance. But when I arrived at the studio, the guest before me was a man named Brent Brown, a lifelong Republican who had voted against Obama twice, and was particularly vocal in his opposition to Obamacare. Brown also had a serious autoimmune disease that nearly killed him because he couldn?t afford treatment. And the Affordable Care Act saved his life. And he wrote this beautiful letter to Obama that ends with, ?Thank you for serving me when I didn?t vote you. Thank you for being my President.?
I sat there and watched the clip of Brent introducing Obama at a rally in Milwaukee that day, and then being interviewed by Chris Hayes. His voice was halting, a little unsure, like it was the first time he had ever spoken in public. And I thought about what it took for him to get there?to beat his illness, to write that letter, to go to that rally, to sit in front that television camera, to say, ?You know what? I changed my mind.? It?s the kind of courage and grace you rarely see in public life, but it probably exists in more places than we imagine.
The President often says, ?We are not as divided as our politics suggests.?
Now, more than ever, I hope that he?s right.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/13/how-the-republican-party-became-a-failed-state.html
The Democrats went though their period of huge decisiveness while the Republicans stood strong together. Now it is the Republican's turn. They will suffer for a few years and then get their act together. I agree that it's sad. Compromise is not a bad word. Compromise is necessary if we are to move forward. The Repubs have turned "comprise" to meaning compromising your interrogatory. They will figure it out and we will get back to normal. I have faith. A country that keeps being so divided will not stand.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 14, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
The Democrats went though their period of huge decisiveness while the Republicans stood strong together. Now it is the Republican's turn. They will suffer for a few years and then get their act together. I agree that it's sad. Compromise is not a bad word. Compromise is necessary if we are to move forward. The Repubs have turned "comprise" to meaning compromising your interrogatory. They will figure it out and we will get back to normal. I have faith. A country that keeps being so divided will not stand.
..that's the scary part....will they learn from all of this....or just dig in their heels?
..will we
all learn from this?....hopefully
Marth, who is Brazilian but pays attention to American politics says that Americans are not stupid, that we sometimes just act that way for a while. Marth is smart.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 14, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
The Democrats went though their period of huge decisiveness while the Republicans stood strong together. Now it is the Republican's turn. They will suffer for a few years and then get their act together. I agree that it's sad. Compromise is not a bad word. Compromise is necessary if we are to move forward. The Repubs have turned "comprise" to meaning compromising your interrogatory. They will figure it out and we will get back to normal. I have faith. A country that keeps being so divided will not stand.
On that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
Lately it seems that our illustrious repubican leaders roll over and play dead ala Bohner and now Paul Ryan along with Mitch McConnell, John McCain etc. None of them stand for a damn thing and cave to the libs every time.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 14, 2016, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 14, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
The Democrats went though their period of huge decisiveness while the Republicans stood strong together. Now it is the Republican's turn. They will suffer for a few years and then get their act together. I agree that it's sad. Compromise is not a bad word. Compromise is necessary if we are to move forward. The Repubs have turned "comprise" to meaning compromising your interrogatory. They will figure it out and we will get back to normal. I have faith. A country that keeps being so divided will not stand.
On that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
Lately it seems that our illustrious repubican leaders roll over and play dead ala Bohner and now Paul Ryan along with Mitch McConnell, John McCain etc. None of them stand for a damn thing and cave to the libs every time.
..you mean cave to the 'tea party bozos' every time..... ;D
QuoteOn that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
I would agree with this.
QuoteLately it seems that our illustrious repubican leaders roll over and play dead ala Bohner and now Paul Ryan along with Mitch McConnell, John McCain etc. None of them stand for a damn thing and cave to the libs every time.
I have a different take on this though:
The "establishment" Republicans have made lots of promises to parts their base which they seem to have little or no interest in keeping. Thus those people are unhappy, frustrated, and pissed off. No surprise.
From the Democratic point of view, many on your list have also made promises or agreements to Democrats which they have later turned their backs on. This is often viewed as "caving to their base", even when they understand the flaws of their actions.
It's indicative of hypocrisy, something the political career often favors and certainly not limited to Republicans.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/borowitz-sanders-vegan-thugs-trump.jpg)
CINCINNATI (The Borowitz Report)?Republican front-runner Donald Trump was crying foul on Monday after Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders allegedly dispatched an army of vegan thugs to attack a rally of peace-loving Nazis in Cincinnati.
According to Trump, he had begun to address a group of ?orderly and civil Nazis? at a downtown arena when his audience was suddenly set upon by an unruly mob of angry vegans, many menacingly clad in Birkenstocks and sustainable garments.
The Sanders supporters, singing an alarmingly militant version of Simon & Garfunkel?s ?America,? marched into the arena and began ?intimidating and threatening? the Nazis, Trump said.
?Make no mistake about who is starting the violence at these rallies,? Trump said. ?It?s the vegans.?
Carol Foyler, a Nazi from suburban Cincinnati, said that she feared for her life when one of the vegans ?ripped a Trump sign? from her hands and ?tried to recycle it.?
Harland Dorrinson, a Kentucky Nazi who drove to Ohio to hear Trump speak, said he would never have attended the rally if he had known ?there would be troublemaking vegans there.?
?One of them tried to swing an NPR tote bag at my head,? the terrified Nazi said.
Quote from: Mugwump on March 14, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 14, 2016, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 14, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
The Democrats went though their period of huge decisiveness while the Republicans stood strong together. Now it is the Republican's turn. They will suffer for a few years and then get their act together. I agree that it's sad. Compromise is not a bad word. Compromise is necessary if we are to move forward. The Repubs have turned "comprise" to meaning compromising your interrogatory. They will figure it out and we will get back to normal. I have faith. A country that keeps being so divided will not stand.
On that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
Lately it seems that our illustrious repubican leaders roll over and play dead ala Bohner and now Paul Ryan along with Mitch McConnell, John McCain etc. None of them stand for a damn thing and cave to the libs every time.
..you mean cave to the 'tea party bozos' every time..... ;D
I'll take those tea party "bozos" and any republican that will obey their oath to uphold the Constitution. Very few democrats will do it. And it seems that many repugs are unwilling to lately also. I don't give a damn what party you are so long as you uphold the law of the land.
Quote from: BillT on March 14, 2016, 04:19:26 PM
QuoteOn that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
I would agree with this.
QuoteLately it seems that our illustrious repubican leaders roll over and play dead ala Bohner and now Paul Ryan along with Mitch McConnell, John McCain etc. None of them stand for a damn thing and cave to the libs every time.
I have a different take on this though:
The "establishment" Republicans have made lots of promises to parts their base which they seem to have little or no interest in keeping. Thus those people are unhappy, frustrated, and pissed off. No surprise.
From the Democratic point of view, many on your list have also made promises or agreements to Democrats which they have later turned their backs on. This is often viewed as "caving to their base", even when they understand the flaws of their actions.
It's indicative of hypocrisy, something the political career often favors and certainly not limited to Republicans.
Well we are still waiting for the tax cuts the Dems promised Ronnie.
And yeah, I am pissed at the actions of the current establishment repugs. We gave them a mandate. They don't want to listen then they need to go. So much for getting rid of HusseinCare.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/64833_10154148870803682_1797386008083029266_n.jpg?oh=fc03fc5212b316703eee041b746cb061&oe=5754CF26)
https://www.facebook.com/CollegeHumor/videos/10153552513872807/ (https://www.facebook.com/CollegeHumor/videos/10153552513872807/)
QuoteQuote
On that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
I would agree with this.
QuoteWell we are still waiting for the tax cuts the Dems promised Ronnie.
I think you might have misunderstood me.
Reagan made lots of deals with the Democrats. Among other things, this resulted in many tax increases (way more than Obama), in order to fix his budget problems, caused by his crazy pursuit of deficit spending, driven by ill-advised tax cuts combined with military spending increases.
(http://56.media.tumblr.com/7425dd55340dfab083b84f84578ddad2/tumblr_o43iiy543E1tjjzxpo1_400.jpg)
Anonymous declares war on Trump...
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/03/15/hacker-group-anonymous-declares-total-war-on-donald-trump.html (http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/03/15/hacker-group-anonymous-declares-total-war-on-donald-trump.html)
Quote from: Mugwump on March 16, 2016, 05:43:16 AM
(http://56.media.tumblr.com/7425dd55340dfab083b84f84578ddad2/tumblr_o43iiy543E1tjjzxpo1_400.jpg)
Missing one word however.
LEGAL!.
Most of us have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.
Quote from: BillT on March 15, 2016, 11:52:19 PM
QuoteQuote
On that we can agree. Reagan was great at the give and take.
I would agree with this.
QuoteWell we are still waiting for the tax cuts the Dems promised Ronnie.
I think you might have misunderstood me.
Reagan made lots of deals with the Democrats. Among other things, this resulted in many tax increases (way more than Obama), in order to fix his budget problems, caused by his crazy pursuit of deficit spending, driven by ill-advised tax cuts combined with military spending increases.
A little history: Reagan pushed through two major tax bills, one in 1981 that was an across-the-board tax cut of about 23 percent and one in 1986 that lowered marginal rates while hacking away at the number of deductions. Because both bills lowered the top marginal tax rate -- it went from 70 percent in 1980 to 28 percent in 1987
You also need to remember Reagan had a tax and spend democrat house for most of his tenure. And the dems held the house and senate from 1957-1997 save six years where Republicans had the senate for 6 years. 40 years of control by democrats yet you blame the best POTUS of our time.
And before you cite Clintons "surplus" remember when that occurred Clinton had a Red house not a blue one. If not for that Clinton would have taxed us almost as much as Hussein.
QuoteQuoteA little history: Reagan pushed through two major tax bills, one in 1981 that was an across-the-board tax cut of about 23 percent and one in 1986 that lowered marginal rates while hacking away at the number of deductions. Because both bills lowered the top marginal tax rate -- it went from 70 percent in 1980 to 28 percent in 1987
This is where income inequality got its big push forward. Go 0.1%ers!!!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xThuWsCJLa8GtKY2FG/giphy.gif)
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 16, 2016, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 16, 2016, 05:43:16 AM
(http://56.media.tumblr.com/7425dd55340dfab083b84f84578ddad2/tumblr_o43iiy543E1tjjzxpo1_400.jpg)
Missing one word however.
LEGAL!.
Most of us have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.
How about if those LEGAL immigrants were Muslims,or non whites.
The same people that are bitching about the illegals would be singing the same old tune,only in a different key.
Trump Voters? Aversion To Foreign-Sounding Names Cost Him Delegates
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-voters-aversion-to-foreign-sounding-names-cost-him-delegates/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-voters-aversion-to-foreign-sounding-names-cost-him-delegates/)
Is it really that big?
https://youtu.be/uG5kSgJtyQg
Quote from: ghonk on March 16, 2016, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 16, 2016, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 16, 2016, 05:43:16 AM
(http://56.media.tumblr.com/7425dd55340dfab083b84f84578ddad2/tumblr_o43iiy543E1tjjzxpo1_400.jpg)
Missing one word however.
LEGAL!.
Most of us have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.
How about if those LEGAL immigrants were Muslims,or non whites.
The same people that are bitching about the illegals would be singing the same old tune,only in a different key.
Interesting question. I might no someone who can actually answer that.
Wait. That would be me. Seems I am married to a legal resident alien. Have been since 1980. December 13 1980. Even have a kid with that alien. She is "non white". English is also her second language.
I'll wait while you extract your foot from your mouth.
How about the millions of religiously intolerant and/or racists in the country,you know,a big part of Drumpf's camp.
I was talking about the illegal immigrant haters in general,not you personally,but congratulations to you anyway.
If you are concerned about extraction, you need to seek out those Drumpf supporters who have their head jammed up his ass,and see if you can help them out.
Donald Trump winning the US presidency is considered one of the top 10 risks facing the world, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit.
The research firm warns he could disrupt the global economy and heighten political and security risks in the US.
However, it does not expect Mr Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton who it sees as "his most likely Democratic contender".
He is rated as riskier than Britain leaving the European Union or an armed clash in the South China Sea.
China encountering a "hard landing" or sharp economic slowdown and Russia's interventions in Ukraine and Syria preceding a new "cold war" are among the events seen as more dangerous.
"Thus far Mr Trump has given very few details of his policies - and these tend to be prone to constant revision," the EIU said in its global risk assessment, which looks at impact and probability.
The EIU ranking uses a scale of one to 25, with Mr Trump garnering a rating of 12, the same level of risk as "the rising threat of jihadi terrorism destabilising the global economy".
"He has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably Nafta, and has repeatedly labelled China as a 'currency manipulator'," the EIU said.
It warned his strong language directed towards Mexico and China in particular "could escalate rapidly into a trade war".
Mr Trump has called for a "big big wall" to be built on the US-Mexican border, paid for by Mexico, to keep its illegal immigrants and drug dealers out of the United States.
'Innate hostility'
On the campaign trail, Mr Trump has advocated killing the families of terrorists and invading Syria to eradicate the so-called Islamic State group and appropriate its oil.
"His militaristic tendencies towards the Middle East and ban on all Muslim travel to the US would be a potent recruitment tool for jihadi groups, increasing their threat both within the region and beyond," the EIU added.
Critics of Mr Trump have raised similar concerns.
However, the businessman is moving closer to clinching the Republican presidential nominee ticket after winning most of the popular vote.
Mr Trump, who has no prior political experience, has said his supporters would "riot" if he was denied the nomination.
In the event he does win the nomination and presidency, the EIU forecasts that domestic and foreign policymaking will be undermined.
"Innate hostility within the Republican hierarchy towards Mr Trump, combined with the inevitable virulent Democratic opposition, will see many of his more radical policies blocked in Congress," it said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35828747 (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35828747)
Quote from: ghonk on March 16, 2016, 11:53:46 PM
How about the millions of religiously intolerant and/or racists in the country,you know,a big part of Drumpf's camp.
I was talking about the illegal immigrant haters in general,not you personally,but congratulations to you anyway.
If you are concerned about extraction, you need to seek out those Drumpf supporters who have their head jammed up his ass,and see if you can help them out.
Since I am around a bunch of immigrants the general consensus is they don't particularly care for the illegals either. Kind of the "I came in the legal way and followed the laws you came and didn't" type attitude.
If you're here illegally you broke US law. Why should you be rewarded? If I kill you should I be rewarded?
As for the Muslims just look at what's going on in countries where the "refugees" were allowed in. Face it. They've been problematic since the beginning of time. Look at the crusades. And it seems the Founding Fathers had problems with them also.
Alas, I also am friends with many of the Muslim faith. And they are good friends. Too bad they don't like bacon.
Looking at your comments however I understand how tolerant the left is for free speech. We have that right. Unless of course it disagrees with you.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 17, 2016, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: ghonk on March 16, 2016, 11:53:46 PM
How about the millions of religiously intolerant and/or racists in the country,you know,a big part of Drumpf's camp.
I was talking about the illegal immigrant haters in general,not you personally,but congratulations to you anyway.
If you are concerned about extraction, you need to seek out those Drumpf supporters who have their head jammed up his ass,and see if you can help them out.
Since I am around a bunch of immigrants the general consensus is they don't particularly care for the illegals either. Kind of the "I came in the legal way and followed the laws you came and didn't" type attitude.
If you're here illegally you broke US law. Why should you be rewarded? If I kill you should I be rewarded?
As for the Muslims just look at what's going on in countries where the "refugees" were allowed in. Face it. They've been problematic since the beginning of time. Look at the crusades. And it seems the Founding Fathers had problems with them also.
Alas, I also am friends with many of the Muslim faith. And they are good friends. Too bad they don't like bacon.
Looking at your comments however I understand how tolerant the left is for free speech. We have that right. Unless of course it disagrees with you.
Muslims haven't been any more problematic since the beginning of time then Christians have been,and if what you say is true then the Founding Fathers were religiously intolerant themselves,and is not something that should be celebrated.
Common guys, can't we give it a rest?
Quote from: ghonk on March 17, 2016, 01:21:42 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 17, 2016, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: ghonk on March 16, 2016, 11:53:46 PM
How about the millions of religiously intolerant and/or racists in the country,you know,a big part of Drumpf's camp.
I was talking about the illegal immigrant haters in general,not you personally,but congratulations to you anyway.
If you are concerned about extraction, you need to seek out those Drumpf supporters who have their head jammed up his ass,and see if you can help them out.
Since I am around a bunch of immigrants the general consensus is they don't particularly care for the illegals either. Kind of the "I came in the legal way and followed the laws you came and didn't" type attitude.
If you're here illegally you broke US law. Why should you be rewarded? If I kill you should I be rewarded?
As for the Muslims just look at what's going on in countries where the "refugees" were allowed in. Face it. They've been problematic since the beginning of time. Look at the crusades. And it seems the Founding Fathers had problems with them also.
Alas, I also am friends with many of the Muslim faith. And they are good friends. Too bad they don't like bacon.
Looking at your comments however I understand how tolerant the left is for free speech. We have that right. Unless of course it disagrees with you.
Muslims haven't been any more problematic since the beginning of time then Christians have been,and if what you say is true then the Founding Fathers were religiously intolerant themselves,and is not something that should be celebrated.
Little tough to have tolerance when they pretty much want to behead you. Of course I realize that is not true for the majority that hold it as a religion unto itself but it is hard to tell the difference.
Remember the Crusades were to reclaim the Holy Land that Muslims conquered.
QuoteSo what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression?an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/mayweb-only/52.0.html
...Politics...ok.........Religion?....nada.....let's back to Trump bashing....besides, it's more fun.. |^|
Hell, there are people I like who voted for Trump. I think he's a joke, you think he's a joke but a very great number of voting republicans think that he is like the second coming.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/10363733_10206159464887522_6164427770612007279_n.jpg?oh=9692a63f8b592f400ca1e3d8c4b59a6b&oe=57544295)
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 17, 2016, 01:35:05 PM
Hell, there are people I like who voted for Trump. I think he's a joke, you think he's a joke but a very great number of voting republicans think that he is like the second coming.
I've been labeled, by certain members of my family, as a pot-stirrer. That's what I like about Trump. He's stirring that pot that has gotten pretty stagnant.
You can stir the pot,but unfortunately some of the time you still have the scum floating around in there.
Quote from: ghonk on March 17, 2016, 02:44:34 PM
You can stir the pot,but unfortunately some of the time you still have the scum floating around in there.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on March 17, 2016, 01:35:56 PM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/10363733_10206159464887522_6164427770612007279_n.jpg?oh=9692a63f8b592f400ca1e3d8c4b59a6b&oe=57544295)
Obama created jobs. Taking 1 full time 40 hour job and making 4 10 hour jobs is a net increase of 3 jobs yet no more hours were worked.
94 million people are no longer counted in the workforce. If we get another 60 million not counted unemployment would be 2%.
Cut the deficit yet has doubled the debt in 7 years.
Percentages don't tell the whole story and really if the deficit were truly reduced we wouldn't keep needing to increase the debt ceiling every year. remember doing that is unpatriotic according to Barry.
Quote?Think about it this way,? Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense wrote to us in an email. ?I like to compare budget numbers to diets. Bob weighs 400 pounds and loses 60 pounds in a year. Ralph is 210 pounds and loses 40 pounds in a year. Bob has lost more weight than Ralph, but Ralph is losing it faster, at a 19% rate versus a 15% rate.?
More people now are on food stamps than ever before.
While GM is still around they pay no taxes on any profits for a total of 10 years and we, the taxpayer lost over $25 billion.
Let's not forget about the 36+ companies he "invested" in (like Solyndra) that went belly up and we lost tons. Also the money left on the table with Tesla.
Our economy is so great 47 million people are on food stamps. A substantial increase under Barry.
Oh those pesky facts.
Oh yeah, and I have a wall close to Mexico you might want to buy, real cheap.
Take 1 full time 40 hour job and make 4 10 hour jobs.
If you are going to make stuff up why not make it 10 4 hour jobs,or how about 40 1 hour jobs.
(http://i.imgbox.com/qfx6AdfI.jpg)
(http://i.imgbox.com/qLAjhYWN.jpg)
(http://i.imgbox.com/x7Ks9Tex.jpg)
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/danzcolorplus6614.jpg)
(http://)
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Borowitz-Reassuring-News-690.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?President Obama is planning to take the nation?s nuclear launch codes with him when he leaves office, in January of 2017, the President announced in a nationally televised address on Thursday.
The President was quick to acknowledge that his decision to hold on to the launch codes was unorthodox, but said that he was doing it ?to reassure the American people.?
?In recent weeks, there has been a rising level of alarm about who might have access to these codes going forward,? Obama said. ?As a result, it occurred to me that the safest thing would be if I just held on to them for the foreseeable future.?
The President stressed, however, that he would follow through on his plan to keep custody of the launch codes ?only if it is necessary.?
?We?re just going to have to see how everything plays out,? he said.
At the conclusion of his address, Obama held up the nuclear ?football,? the briefcase containing the nation?s nuclear codes, to display it for the national television audience.
?You can all sleep well at night,? he said. ?I got this.?
*
LOLOLOLOL.....likely so true....so true... wfwf
The Oregon revenuers are collecting three times the expected amount of Marijuana taxes.
Quote from: BillT on March 18, 2016, 11:55:07 AM
The Oregon revenuers are collecting three times the expected amount of Marijuana taxes.
w!w =;-) w!w
I've been thinking.
This could happen from the Democratic point of view:
Hillary gets nomination. She's pretty much got it sowed up now, unless something serious comes (rather than what most Demos thing of as the GOP fictions we hear now). This is always a possibility though.
Sander does win. Some of his followers are less inclined to vote for Hillary (bad for politics). One of the traditional ways to heal up these kind of differences (not so much in the case of a blood feud as they have in the GOP) is to Pick someone for Vice President form the aggrieved group.
Sanders would probably not work (for many reasons), but someone who would, would be Elizabeth Warren (one of my favorite politicians). I would have liked to see her run for President, but no!!!
With Hillary & Elizabeth they would have the Girl Team, which I think would has a nice ring to it campaign-wise.
If Hillary gets indicted or something, Warren is the automatic back-up, which would be fine with me.
After the thing or things (meaning candidates) that come out of the current Republican party mess, they could well lose the Presidency and the Senate.
Hillary or Elizabeth appoint Obama to the Supreme Court.
The GOP should not have been such jerks!
Quote from: ghonk on March 18, 2016, 03:14:13 AM
Take 1 full time 40 hour job and make 4 10 hour jobs.
If you are going to make stuff up why not make it 10 4 hour jobs,or how about 40 1 hour jobs.
Alas. The sad part is I am not making it up. I've watched it happen. Where my wife works they won't hire on for more than 12 hour weeks.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 20, 2016, 07:43:31 PM
Quote from: ghonk on March 18, 2016, 03:14:13 AM
Take 1 full time 40 hour job and make 4 10 hour jobs.
If you are going to make stuff up why not make it 10 4 hour jobs,or how about 40 1 hour jobs.
Alas. The sad part is I am not making it up. I've watched it happen. Where my wife works they won't hire on for more than 12 hour weeks.
I think 4 10 hour jobs is an extreme example,not that it isn't possible but i doubt it's the norm.
I have HEARD of SOME companies hiring 2 part timers rather then 1 full time worker.
Supposedly so they don't have to offer health insurance,i think that is what i read.
*
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boweryboogie.com%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2Fdump-trump-1.png&f=1)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/53wnsm.jpg)
I love it when Mitt posts about Donald. It makes me think.....
"It takes one to know one!"
Dennis
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/947318_1095144017245318_4228656010528111164_n.png?oh=59cfdda5fb2e0c9ea7df2dfabeda89df&oe=578D98DF)
I know. I live in Mississippi. We are a tea party State. All the Republicans say "no" to everything >:( I couldn't get it the first year but didn't have to pay the penalty. I had to pay the penalty this time because I made a couple grand more >:( My State did not expand Medicare >:( >:( >:( Thank God I've aged in to a Socialist thing called Medicare.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 03:52:48 PM
I know. I live in Mississippi. We are a tea party State. All the Republicans say "no" to everything >:( I couldn't get it the first year but didn't have to pay the penalty. I had to pay the penalty this time because I made a couple grand more >:( My State did not expand Medicare >:( >:( >:( Thank God I've aged in to a Socialist thing called Medicare.
..being retired does have a few 'perk's'.... |^|
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
Yep, no way in hell.....
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-le-1023-friday-bernie-sanders-socialism-20151023-story.html
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QZZbv6d9Hswey8U/giphy.gif)
LOL..! Wonder if Bernie bites too????
Quote from: Mugwump on March 25, 2016, 01:50:04 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QZZbv6d9Hswey8U/giphy.gif)
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 26, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
Please don't tell me that you think it should be done away with.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 26, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
It's doing fine, but would be much more solvent if Congress stopped using it like a piggy bank, and reimbursed for all the funds that were pirated...
Quote from: Mugwump on March 27, 2016, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 26, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
It's doing fine, but would be much more solvent if Congress stopped using it like a piggy bank, and reimbursed for all the funds that were pirated...
+1
Quote from: ghonk on March 27, 2016, 02:25:56 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 26, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
Please don't tell me that you think it should be done away with.
It will do itself in of its own staggering weight. The worker per retiree rate is falling fast. It is not self sustaining. Most of the major shifts in worker-to-beneficiary ratios before the 1960s are attributable to the dynamics of the program's maturity. In the early stages of the program, many paid in and few received benefits, and the revenue collected greatly exceeded the benefits being paid out. What appeared to be the program's advantage, however, turned out to be misleading. Between 1945 and 1965, the decline in worker-to-beneficiary ratios went from 41 to 4 workers per beneficiary.
The Social Security program matured in the 1960s, when Americans were consistently having fewer children, living longer, and earning wages at a slower rate than the rate of growth in the number of retirees. As these trends have continued, today there are just 2.9 workers per retiree?and this amount is expected to drop to two workers per retiree by 2030.
The program was stable when there were more than 3 workers per beneficiary. However, future projections indicate that the ratio will continue to fall from two workers to one, at which point the program in its current structure becomes financially unsustainable.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 27, 2016, 10:26:06 PM
Quote from: ghonk on March 27, 2016, 02:25:56 AM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 26, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on March 24, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Can you even imagine them trying to get ss and Medicare passed these days? No way, no how.
SS. Largest legal Ponzi in the world. And is there really any wonder why it's failing?
Please don't tell me that you think it should be done away with.
It will do itself in of its own staggering weight. The worker per retiree rate is falling fast. It is not self sustaining. Most of the major shifts in worker-to-beneficiary ratios before the 1960s are attributable to the dynamics of the program's maturity. In the early stages of the program, many paid in and few received benefits, and the revenue collected greatly exceeded the benefits being paid out. What appeared to be the program's advantage, however, turned out to be misleading. Between 1945 and 1965, the decline in worker-to-beneficiary ratios went from 41 to 4 workers per beneficiary.
The Social Security program matured in the 1960s, when Americans were consistently having fewer children, living longer, and earning wages at a slower rate than the rate of growth in the number of retirees. As these trends have continued, today there are just 2.9 workers per retiree?and this amount is expected to drop to two workers per retiree by 2030.
The program was stable when there were more than 3 workers per beneficiary. However, future projections indicate that the ratio will continue to fall from two workers to one, at which point the program in its current structure becomes financially unsustainable.
..nice cut and paste....but it still doesn't take into account for the government pilfering it over the years....the return of those funds and subtle tweaks to the age requirements will have it going for a long, long time......I'm surprised that you're biting the hand that will feed you...
Part of it was cut and paste Jon.
I did the research on how SS worked a few years ago.
The site I copied parts from was only to save me from retyping.
Stealing from it however is still a moot point. As you have less workers supported the retirees it has to fall apart. Just like any Ponzi Jon.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 28, 2016, 02:38:07 PM
Part of it was cut and paste Jon.
I did the research on how SS worked a few years ago.
The site I copied parts from was only to save me from retyping.
Stealing from it however is still a moot point. As you have less workers supported the retirees it has to fall apart. Just like any Ponzi Jon.
So what's the answer,in your opinion?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 28, 2016, 02:38:07 PM
Part of it was cut and paste Jon.
I did the research on how SS worked a few years ago.
The site I copied parts from was only to save me from retyping.
Stealing from it however is still a moot point. As you have less workers supported the retirees it has to fall apart. Just like any Ponzi Jon.
....
but it still doesn't take into account for the government pilfering it over the years....the return of those funds and subtle tweaks to the age requirements will have it going for a long, long time...
Jon the bipartisan theft of SS funds is irrelevant. It was designed for 41 workers supporting each retiree. It's now 2.8 per retiree. You can replace all the money pilfered, with interest, without the new money coming in a Ponzi fails. There is no amount of "twerking" that will fix the lack of those who pay in. Having 94 million people off the rolls and not counted in unemployment figures doesn't help either.
And the left over ravioli were even better tonight.
Paul's rent is $1000 a month,he gets paid weekly and budgets $200 a week towards the next payment.
But Paul also has a cocaine habit,and spends about $150 out of that $200 every friday night on his binges.
Paul now lives in his car,if only he would have budgeted $250 a week rather then the $200 he wouldn't have this problem.
Paul wants to know if you can spare some of that Ravioli.
The pilfered money does matter because with it SS will with stand the 'boomer' bubble. There are plenty of young folks working, and factoring the longer life expectancy, and adjusting the ages for benefits accordingly...all will be fine...or are you stumping/trolling to promote Ryan's plan which sounds like a government run, individual 401K/IRA, that basically benefits the rich/stock market...? sure that'll work...not...........take a look at the young electorate, these young folks are lucky they can tie their shoes...
SS was never meant to be a person's entire retirement package....it was meant as a stop gap for those without any retirement at all. We as workers/citizens have contributed to the fund all our lives. It is not entitlement....we paid for it. The pool was robbed period. Bitch all you want, but you're griping up the wrong tree.....
Quote from: Mugwump on March 29, 2016, 07:41:30 AM
Bitch all you want, but you're griping up the wrong tree.....
Amen.
Dennis
THE HAIRCUT
Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting.
One day a florist went to a barber for a haircut. After the cut, he asked about his bill, and the barber replied, 'I cannot accept money from you, I'm doing community service this week.'
The florist was pleased and left the shop.
When the barber went to open his shop the next morning, there was a 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for
him at his door.
Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill , the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from you, I'm doing community service this week.' The cop was happy and left the shop.
The next morning when the barber went to open up, there was a 'thank you ' card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.
Then a Congressman came in for a haircut, and when he went to pay his bill , the barber again replied, 'I can not accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The Congressman was very happy and left the shop.
The next morning, when the barber went to open up, there
were a dozen Congressmen lined up waiting for a free haircut.
And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between the citizens of our country and the politicians who run it.
Oh boy...this will work, huh ?.... huh
More than 5,000 support petition to allow guns at Republican National Convention in Cleveland
By Doug Livingston
Beacon Journal staff writer
Published: March 24, 2016 - 12:13 PM | Updated: March 25, 2016 - 10:28 AM
Support has more than quadrupled overnight for a petition to allow firearms at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.
The petition, filed by ?Americans for Responsible Open Carry,? was filed Monday on Change.org, an online forum. By Wednesday, 630 supporters had signed the request to carry firearms in and around Quicken Loans Arena, which will host the 2016 Republican National Convention from July 18-21.
With a goal of 5,000 signatures, the petition topped 5,300 by 6 p.m. Thursday.
The Ohio Republican Party, which is sending one of 50 state delegations to Cleveland this summer to nominate the party?s next presidential candidate, said it was not aware of the petition.
Nor was the host committee overseeing the convention, although it noted that the Secret Service, in conjunction with Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, state and federal authorities, is handling security for the event.
?They are coordinating and will be continuously refining security plans leading up to the national convention,? said Alee Lockman, a spokesperson for the Republican National Convention.
The Secret Service banned guns at the GOP convention in Florida four years ago.
The www.change.org/p/quicken-loans-arena-allow-open-carry-of-firearms-at-the-quicken-loans-arena-during-the-rnc-convention-in-july-2">petition calls for:
? Quicken Loans Arena to suspend its open-carry ban during the convention. (The arena actually cites Ohio law on concealed carry in prohibiting firearms.)
? The National Rifle Association to make ?an immediate condemnation of the egregious affront to the Second Amendment,? referring to Ohio law that allows for guns in many but not all public places. (The NRA declined to comment for this story.)
? Ohio Gov. John Kasich to exercise his executive authority to override the ?gun-free zone? loophole in state law.
? Chairman Reince Priebus and the Republican National Committee to explain how ?a venue so unfriendly to Second Amendment rights was chosen for the Republican Convention? and create a backup plan to move the convention (two years in the making) to another city should demands not be met.
? The three remaining Republican candidates for president to continue their pledge to protect the Second Amendment by pressuring the RNC and Quicken Loans Arena.
For or against?
?Americans for Responsible Open Carry,? the name of the group supposedly behind the effort, appears nowhere else online. The group accepts online messages only from networked supporters.
And it?s unclear if the petition or its supporters care to unravel or uphold gun rights.
As signee Bryan Finch of San Luis Obispo, Calif., said in the petition?s comment section: ?I?m signing this because they hate our freedom, also I?m kinda hoping there?ll be a bloodbath at the RNC.?
The petition has drawn considerable criticism on Change.org, an online forum hosting crowd-sourced petitions.
?These guys should work with my other favorite charity ? Americans for Responsible Drunk Driving. They?re also doing great work in the field of horrible ideas,? read the most-liked comment, posted anonymously.
The petitioners, who claim a ?God-given? right to carry, suggest that armed, law-abiding citizens will make the event more secure in a city full of crime.
?Cleveland, Ohio is consistently ranked as one of the top ten most dangerous cities in America,? the petition stated, referencing a Forbes story. ?By forcing attendees to leave their firearms at home, the RNC and Quicken Loans Arena are putting tens of thousands of people at risk both inside and outside of the convention site.?
Criticism of the effort is split between those fundamentally opposing open carry and a more nuanced attack on the Republican Party for not standing behind its traditional support for an uninhibited right to have and hold firearms.
?Hypocrisy is the death of political parties. Stand by your frothy principles, or shut up about them,? wrote a commentator from California, whose argument that Republicans tend to support unabridged gun rights but do not always hold events at open-carry friendly venues has been made before by progressive organizations.
The debate over gun violence and Second Amendment rights is no stranger to RNC host city Cleveland.
The 2014 police shooting of Tamir Rice, 12, forced gun advocates and residents to reconsider police-community relationships, especially after a consent decree from the U.S. Department of Justice highlighted issues with city police and use of deadly force.
The controversy bubbled up in December as a white man exercised his right to openly display an assault rifle while walking the streets of Akron.
Ohio, an open-carry state, does not prohibit law-abiding citizens who are eligible to own guns from walking in public with a loaded weapon, although firearms are not permitted at the Statehouse in Columbus and, even if concealed, can be banned by individual businesses and property owners.
Arena policy
Quicken Loans Arena, for example, forbids guns or ?weapons of any kind? at its heavily attended events.
Venue policy states: ?In accordance with the Ohio?s ?concealed carry? law and the right for private entities to ban handguns on their premises, firearms and other weapons of any kind are strictly forbidden on the premises of Quicken Loans Arena.?
Guns also were banned at the 2012 Republican convention in Florida. The Tampa Tribune reported then that the Secret Service and Tampa trumped state laws that ?block the city from acting to limit guns.?
Doug Livingston can be reached at 330-996-3792 or dlivingston@thebeaconjournal.com. Follow on Twitter: @ABJDoug.
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/more-than-5-000-support-petition-to-allow-guns-at-republican-national-convention-in-cleveland-1.671384
Quote from: ghonk on March 28, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 28, 2016, 02:38:07 PM
Part of it was cut and paste Jon.
I did the research on how SS worked a few years ago.
The site I copied parts from was only to save me from retyping.
Stealing from it however is still a moot point. As you have less workers supported the retirees it has to fall apart. Just like any Ponzi Jon.
So what's the answer,in your opinion?
To be honest? I really don't know. I do know we need some kind of a safety net if you will. Just not sure how to run it. Definitely not another Ponzi.
Quote from: ghonk on March 29, 2016, 01:50:05 AM
Paul's rent is $1000 a month,he gets paid weekly and budgets $200 a week towards the next payment.
But Paul also has a cocaine habit,and spends about $150 out of that $200 every friday night on his binges.
Paul now lives in his car,if only he would have budgeted $250 a week rather then the $200 he wouldn't have this problem.
Paul wants to know if you can spare some of that Ravioli.
Sorry to hear about "Paul's" cocaine habit. Hope you find help with that "Paul".
Quote from: Mugwump on March 29, 2016, 07:41:30 AM
The pilfered money does matter because with it SS will with stand the 'boomer' bubble. There are plenty of young folks working, and factoring the longer life expectancy, and adjusting the ages for benefits accordingly...all will be fine...or are you stumping/trolling to promote Ryan's plan which sounds like a government run, individual 401K/IRA, that basically benefits the rich/stock market...? sure that'll work...not...........take a look at the young electorate, these young folks are lucky they can tie their shoes...
SS was never meant to be a person's entire retirement package....it was meant as a stop gap for those without any retirement at all. We as workers/citizens have contributed to the fund all our lives. It is not entitlement....we paid for it. The pool was robbed period. Bitch all you want, but you're griping up the wrong tree.....
Jon statistically it is incorrect. SS started with 40+ people per retiree. It's now less than 2.
I am not paying for my own retirement. I am in effect paying yours. The next generation is paying mine. Just like the Ponzi it is. The difference is there are now less people paying into it. You just can't make up workers. Right now we have over 94 million former workers, people who can't find a job and yet are not counted on any unemployment rolls. That number goes up each month. And that number takes away from the SS contributions.
In my opinion SS is in fact an entitlement. We are entitled to that money because we contributed into the fund. Welfare and all the other non contributory programs are, in my opinion not entitlements, just another handout instead of a hand up. Another program that is a total failure.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on March 29, 2016, 09:01:22 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 29, 2016, 07:41:30 AM
The pilfered money does matter because with it SS will with stand the 'boomer' bubble. There are plenty of young folks working, and factoring the longer life expectancy, and adjusting the ages for benefits accordingly...all will be fine...or are you stumping/trolling to promote Ryan's plan which sounds like a government run, individual 401K/IRA, that basically benefits the rich/stock market...? sure that'll work...not...........take a look at the young electorate, these young folks are lucky they can tie their shoes...
SS was never meant to be a person's entire retirement package....it was meant as a stop gap for those without any retirement at all. We as workers/citizens have contributed to the fund all our lives. It is not entitlement....we paid for it. The pool was robbed period. Bitch all you want, but you're griping up the wrong tree.....
Jon statistically it is incorrect. SS started with 40+ people per retiree. It's now less than 2.
I am not paying for my own retirement. I am in effect paying yours. The next generation is paying mine. Just like the Ponzi it is. The difference is there are now less people paying into it. You just can't make up workers. Right now we have over 94 million former workers, people who can't find a job and yet are not counted on any unemployment rolls. That number goes up each month. And that number takes away from the SS contributions.
In my opinion SS is in fact an entitlement. We are entitled to that money because we contributed into the fund. Welfare and all the other non contributory programs are, in my opinion not entitlements, just another handout instead of a hand up. Another program that is a total failure.
You're not talking rationally....of course you're paying in for your own retirement....dollars don't have participants names on them, it's a retirement pool.....and a pool that would accrue much more needed funds, if those funds that were 'lifted' would be returned.....you can't compare the numbers of contributors in the past to present day, or future dollars/per....the dynamics of the core population/salaries made/etc have changed drastically from the onset, to today's numbers.....you can't mix your apples and oranges to justify spewing sour grapes in your thoughts, and predictions...
...and in today's conservative lingo....
"In present-day politics, the term "entitlement programs" is used as a snarl word by conservative politicians and pundits to describe any benefits program that uses tax dollars. Generally speaking, they use the term to encompass the collective social programs established by prior generations: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and WIC are all included in this grouping. Conservative arguments against entitlement programs range from privatization to dissolution, claiming that the entities are mismanaged, too expensive, and/or rife with corruption."
Quote from: Mugwump on March 29, 2016, 08:02:41 AM
Oh boy...this will work, huh ?.... huh
More than 5,000 support petition to allow guns at Republican National Convention in Cleveland
By Doug Livingston
Beacon Journal staff writer
Published: March 24, 2016 - 12:13 PM | Updated: March 25, 2016 - 10:28 AM
Support has more than quadrupled overnight for a petition to allow firearms at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.
The petition, filed by ?Americans for Responsible Open Carry,? was filed Monday on Change.org, an online forum. By Wednesday, 630 supporters had signed the request to carry firearms in and around Quicken Loans Arena, which will host the 2016 Republican National Convention from July 18-21.
With a goal of 5,000 signatures, the petition topped 5,300 by 6 p.m. Thursday.
The Ohio Republican Party, which is sending one of 50 state delegations to Cleveland this summer to nominate the party?s next presidential candidate, said it was not aware of the petition.
Nor was the host committee overseeing the convention, although it noted that the Secret Service, in conjunction with Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, state and federal authorities, is handling security for the event.
?They are coordinating and will be continuously refining security plans leading up to the national convention,? said Alee Lockman, a spokesperson for the Republican National Convention.
The Secret Service banned guns at the GOP convention in Florida four years ago.
The www.change.org/p/quicken-loans-arena-allow-open-carry-of-firearms-at-the-quicken-loans-arena-during-the-rnc-convention-in-july-2">petition calls for:
? Quicken Loans Arena to suspend its open-carry ban during the convention. (The arena actually cites Ohio law on concealed carry in prohibiting firearms.)
? The National Rifle Association to make ?an immediate condemnation of the egregious affront to the Second Amendment,? referring to Ohio law that allows for guns in many but not all public places. (The NRA declined to comment for this story.)
? Ohio Gov. John Kasich to exercise his executive authority to override the ?gun-free zone? loophole in state law.
? Chairman Reince Priebus and the Republican National Committee to explain how ?a venue so unfriendly to Second Amendment rights was chosen for the Republican Convention? and create a backup plan to move the convention (two years in the making) to another city should demands not be met.
? The three remaining Republican candidates for president to continue their pledge to protect the Second Amendment by pressuring the RNC and Quicken Loans Arena.
For or against?
?Americans for Responsible Open Carry,? the name of the group supposedly behind the effort, appears nowhere else online. The group accepts online messages only from networked supporters.
And it?s unclear if the petition or its supporters care to unravel or uphold gun rights.
As signee Bryan Finch of San Luis Obispo, Calif., said in the petition?s comment section: ?I?m signing this because they hate our freedom, also I?m kinda hoping there?ll be a bloodbath at the RNC.?
The petition has drawn considerable criticism on Change.org, an online forum hosting crowd-sourced petitions.
?These guys should work with my other favorite charity ? Americans for Responsible Drunk Driving. They?re also doing great work in the field of horrible ideas,? read the most-liked comment, posted anonymously.
The petitioners, who claim a ?God-given? right to carry, suggest that armed, law-abiding citizens will make the event more secure in a city full of crime.
?Cleveland, Ohio is consistently ranked as one of the top ten most dangerous cities in America,? the petition stated, referencing a Forbes story. ?By forcing attendees to leave their firearms at home, the RNC and Quicken Loans Arena are putting tens of thousands of people at risk both inside and outside of the convention site.?
Criticism of the effort is split between those fundamentally opposing open carry and a more nuanced attack on the Republican Party for not standing behind its traditional support for an uninhibited right to have and hold firearms.
?Hypocrisy is the death of political parties. Stand by your frothy principles, or shut up about them,? wrote a commentator from California, whose argument that Republicans tend to support unabridged gun rights but do not always hold events at open-carry friendly venues has been made before by progressive organizations.
The debate over gun violence and Second Amendment rights is no stranger to RNC host city Cleveland.
The 2014 police shooting of Tamir Rice, 12, forced gun advocates and residents to reconsider police-community relationships, especially after a consent decree from the U.S. Department of Justice highlighted issues with city police and use of deadly force.
The controversy bubbled up in December as a white man exercised his right to openly display an assault rifle while walking the streets of Akron.
Ohio, an open-carry state, does not prohibit law-abiding citizens who are eligible to own guns from walking in public with a loaded weapon, although firearms are not permitted at the Statehouse in Columbus and, even if concealed, can be banned by individual businesses and property owners.
Arena policy
Quicken Loans Arena, for example, forbids guns or ?weapons of any kind? at its heavily attended events.
Venue policy states: ?In accordance with the Ohio?s ?concealed carry? law and the right for private entities to ban handguns on their premises, firearms and other weapons of any kind are strictly forbidden on the premises of Quicken Loans Arena.?
Guns also were banned at the 2012 Republican convention in Florida. The Tampa Tribune reported then that the Secret Service and Tampa trumped state laws that ?block the city from acting to limit guns.?
Doug Livingston can be reached at 330-996-3792 or dlivingston@thebeaconjournal.com. Follow on Twitter: @ABJDoug.
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/more-than-5-000-support-petition-to-allow-guns-at-republican-national-convention-in-cleveland-1.671384
So who started the petition..??
""Who was behind the petition?
Its content led us to believe it was likely a conservative gun rights advocate who wrote the 800-word memo in hopes of stirring a grassroots movement. But the Internet is a funny - and often anonymous - place.
There's no name attached to the petition, only the handle The Hyperationalist.
A quick Google search led to a Twitter page (@Hyperationalist) and a blog with a Gmail address. I fired off an email, asking a bunch of boilerplate questions and included a plea for the Hyperationalist's identity.
Then I waited.
Around 7:15p Monday, the phone rang.
"Hi, this is the Hyperationalist. You can call me Jim," the voice on the line said.
A few things you should know about Jim: He declined to disclose his last name or any potentially identifying information, but I was able to corroborate his identity as the author of the petition with an employee of Change.org.
Jim wouldn't say where he lives, only that he has roots in Philadelphia and works in the public health sector. Jim is a self-described liberal Democrat who intends to vote for Hillary Clinton should she become the Democratic nominee. He isn't affiliated with a campaign or any advocacy group, but did some volunteer work on Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign. Jim is no fan of guns and he's "pretty passionate" about his activism, he says.
Jim says he wrote the petition knowing it was somewhat preposterous -- that law enforcement would never allow the Republican presidential candidates inside an arena with potentially thousands of armed individuals. "There were never going to be guns at the convention. Not a million signatures were going to make that happen," Jim said.
But he also knew that if the Republican candidates sincerely meant what they have been saying about expanding Second Amendment rights, it would logically follow that they should support a move to allow firearms at the convention. "If they can't live in accordance with the policies they impose upon us, they owe us that rational conversation," Jim said.
He continued, "I thought, 'How do we square how unsafe they're going to be with what they say makes them safe?"' The petition was born.
"I take them at their word," Jim said. "[Open carry is] a state law in Ohio. I don't want them to have a terrible event happen [at the convention] and then say if it hadn't been a gun-free zone, fewer people would have died."
Max Burns, a spokesman for Change.org, said support for the petition shot up dramatically over the weekend and it's still going strong.
So is the petition satirical? Jim says not exactly. "I'm 100 percent sincere in my conviction that guns should be allowed at the GOP convention. [It would be a reflection of] the policies they sought to impose around the nation."
He balked at the suggestion he was an Internet troll, arguing the petition is a genuine political statement.
Jim also mused on the logic of why he - the gun control advocate - had to start the petition. "If they believe this so strongly - that gun-free zones are dangerous - why am I the one raising the stink," he remarked. "I think they should take up the cause. It would bring them up on intellectual consistency."
Cruz and Kasich punted when asked about the petition Monday. Both candidates said they would defer to the Secret Service's judgment on the matter. Trump told ABC News he couldn't say whether he'd support the petition because he hadn't read it as of Sunday. ""
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1917796_10154084198518748_8181982482668623314_n.jpg?oh=76dfd5b98241c6a4fe5b859bd25bd07b&oe=577AAE87)
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/americas-ponzi-scheme-why-social-security-needs-to-retire/
From liberal PBS
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/18/5-facts-about-social-security/
2
Social Security is, and always has been, an inter-generational transfer of wealth. The taxes paid by today?s workers and their employers don?t go into dedicated individual accounts (although 32% of Americans think they do, according to the 2014 Pew Research survey). Nor do Social Security checks represent a return on invested capital, though you might be forgiven for thinking so since the ?personalized Social Security statements? that used to be mailed out once a year and now are available online detail your payment history and projected monthly benefits. Rather, the benefits received by today?s retirees are funded by the taxes paid by today?s workers; when those workers retire, their benefits will be paid for by the next generation of workers? taxes (caveat: see Point 3). Your benefit amount is based on your earnings history and age at retirement, not on how much you and your employer paid in Social Security taxes (although for most people, taxes paid are closely tied to their earnings).
QuoteFrom liberal PBS
Just goes to show you that now all that is PBS is liberal.
The same is true of other places you are afraid of, like the NY Times.
These places present views from more than one side. Pretty scary!
By the way all this stuff is a bunch of opinions without any real facts being referenced.
(http://images.dailykos.com/images/221961/story_image/1279ckCOMIC-trump-republican-monster.png?1457566600)
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/04/01/lepage-refuses-to-swear-in-senator-elect-over-spat-with-democrats/
(http://49.media.tumblr.com/b03943b3c728562036767d3ac302c84e/tumblr_o4l8akqq5U1toamj8o1_1280.gif)
I love your poking Trump. It's hilarious.
He does have successful companies though. In many countries. He's pretty much proven he can in fact negotiate with foreign leaders.
And really what does a POTUS really do? Negotiates with foreign leaders and Congress. We know he can do that. And when he's negotiating, whether for himself or another business man who is he negotiating the best deal for? Of course the person who he's making the deal for. So if he were negotiating the deal for the US one would suspect the winner would on fact be the US.
What about Hillary? She stated we lost no one in Libya. Chris Stevens and 3 others were unavailable for comment. She rolled over and went back to sleep when the 3 am phone call came in.
While in the State Dept she did lose $6 billion.
And what about the farce known as the Clinton Foundation?
All those foreign leaders that have "donated" to it?
She's going to fight Wall Street? She gets a bunch of money from there.
And the uranium sold to the Russians? Lying about the Libya attacks and what prompted them? Hint. It wasn't a movie trailer.
She loves talking about how much Wall Street people make but she makes more for one speech than a teacher can expect to make in 10 years.
feel the Bern. My father fought a socialist so you can vote on in as POTUS?
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 08, 2016, 09:59:54 AM
I love your poking Trump. It's hilarious.
He does have successful companies though. In many countries. He's pretty much proven he can in fact negotiate with foreign leaders.
And really what does a POTUS really do? Negotiates with foreign leaders and Congress. We know he can do that. And when he's negotiating, whether for himself or another business man who is he negotiating the best deal for? Of course the person who he's making the deal for. So if he were negotiating the deal for the US one would suspect the winner would on fact be the US.
What about Hillary? She stated we lost no one in Libya. Chris Stevens and 3 others were unavailable for comment. She rolled over and went back to sleep when the 3 am phone call came in.
While in the State Dept she did lose $6 billion.
And what about the farce known as the Clinton Foundation?
All those foreign leaders that have "donated" to it?
She's going to fight Wall Street? She gets a bunch of money from there.
And the uranium sold to the Russians? Lying about the Libya attacks and what prompted them? Hint. It wasn't a movie trailer.
She loves talking about how much Wall Street people make but she makes more for one speech than a teacher can expect to make in 10 years.
feel the Bern. My father fought a socialist so you can vote on in as POTUS?
I love how you bash Hillary, then Congratulate Trump on being able to offend the world with his mouth....let alone omit all his misgivings....LOL...
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/acf3ef1/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fda%2Fc5%2Fc835081947858586cd60934ec93f%2F7-steve-artley.jpg)
Jon, I didn't bash Hillary at all. I just listed her accomplishments.
No. I am not a Trump supporter. I voted for someone else in the FL Primary.
Again, he is already dealing with a few of the ME leaders.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 08, 2016, 01:31:21 PM
Jon, I didn't bash Hillary at all. I just listed her accomplishments.
No. I am not a Trump supporter. I voted for someone else in the FL Primary.
Again, he is already dealing with a few of the ME leaders.
...well good luck with your poster boy.....LOL
Mug. that was a great cartoon!
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 08, 2016, 01:31:21 PM
Again, he is already dealing with a few of the ME leaders.
And not very successfully LOL Maybe he's to involved trying to figure out how to keep up with Megyn Kelly LOL
Dennis
George Carlin had it right....yeppers...
https://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/videos/1076338492428653/ (https://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/videos/1076338492428653/)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 10, 2016, 06:30:11 PM
George Carlin had it right....yeppers...
https://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/videos/1076338492428653/ (https://www.facebook.com/brandon.weber.upw/videos/1076338492428653/)
Yes he sure did. lol |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
(http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5709b9a41e0000b3007069bd.png)
I heard about that on NPR. They said they won't be making fake headlines for the other candidates. shame...
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12993356_1059501450739427_2136622227718077777_n.jpg?oh=a16d53458a3136eb0d221771fc121fbd&oe=578107C7)
Dennis
|^| |^| |^|
Quote from: BallAquatics on April 10, 2016, 09:42:40 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12993356_1059501450739427_2136622227718077777_n.jpg?oh=a16d53458a3136eb0d221771fc121fbd&oe=578107C7)
Dennis
Oh yes they have. They've collected their paychecks.
...did you really expect them to do anything??
Quote from: Mugwump on April 11, 2016, 07:09:24 AM
...did you really expect them to do anything??
Yea, silly me, I keep forgetting that they are special and pampered. Must be nice to have a job where the boss is more worried about their cell phone contracts as compared to whether you actually do your job or not. I'm still hopeful the good folks of this country will wake up and throw them all out on their collective asses.
Dennis
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/9ab5f4f4e7c355d75f8d5d110fbfb172/tumblr_o4vhw1x3AC1v1imkwo1_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders Will Become Democratic Nominee Even If Clinton Leads in Delegates
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/sanders-become-democratic-nominee-even-if-clinton-leads-in-delegates_b_9657952.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/sanders-become-democratic-nominee-even-if-clinton-leads-in-delegates_b_9657952.html)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on April 14, 2016, 06:02:02 AM
Bernie Sanders Will Become Democratic Nominee Even If Clinton Leads in Delegates
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/sanders-become-democratic-nominee-even-if-clinton-leads-in-delegates_b_9657952.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/sanders-become-democratic-nominee-even-if-clinton-leads-in-delegates_b_9657952.html)
Dennis
He seems to be consistent with his Hillary bashing, Bernie hyping....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/ (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 14, 2016, 06:24:47 AM
He seems to be consistent with his Hillary bashing, Bernie hyping....
LOL She just makes it sooo easy. If they ever remake 101 Dalmatians, she should play Cruella de Vil LOL no acting required! ;D ;D ;D
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Cruella_de_Vil.gif)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on April 14, 2016, 06:39:17 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 14, 2016, 06:24:47 AM
He seems to be consistent with his Hillary bashing, Bernie hyping....
LOL She just makes it sooo easy. If they ever remake 101 Dalmatians, she should play Cruella de Vil LOL no acting required! ;D ;D ;D
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Cruella_de_Vil.gif)
Dennis
....except she's not that pretty.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hee hee hee. Thanks Jon, you just made my day!
Dennis
Good story. Very funny and insightful. http://www.npr.org/2016/04/15/474411511/gop-efforts-to-take-down-trump-echo-2011-white-house-correspondents-dinner
say Repub's......
(http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/slideshows/work-cartoons/work-cartoons-11-ss.jpg)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12998573_10208151416875507_6805543611753473000_n.jpg?oh=c05d69eecfa070d7d787159daf167174&oe=57777B11)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12993437_10208144161534128_4152219224404600838_n.jpg?oh=ec5a679c557ae8ea2198d91f538b0192&oe=57B188B7)
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....love it !!
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12933167_994108227303403_45370402498654766_n.jpg?oh=30d3e0362f954972deed2209836b0b8e&oe=577BACAA)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 16, 2016, 03:56:49 PM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12993437_10208144161534128_4152219224404600838_n.jpg?oh=ec5a679c557ae8ea2198d91f538b0192&oe=57B188B7)
As much as i hate to say it, i probably wouldn't step on his fingers.
But i sure as hell wouldn't try to pull him up either.
Quote from: ghonk on April 16, 2016, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 16, 2016, 03:56:49 PM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12993437_10208144161534128_4152219224404600838_n.jpg?oh=ec5a679c557ae8ea2198d91f538b0192&oe=57B188B7)
As much as i hate to say it, i probably wouldn't step on his fingers.
But i sure as hell wouldn't try to pull him up either.
I would do nothing.
[/quote]
I would do nothing.
[/quote]
Is it because you would be laughing to hard to help? ;D
His hands look larger than they actually are in that pic.
Quote from: ghonk on April 16, 2016, 05:10:20 PM
I would do nothing.
[/quote]
Is it because you would be laughing to hard to help? ;D
[/quote]
no...likely because he'd be taking a leak on him and only has one hand free.... ;D |^| ;D
Quote from: Mugwump on April 16, 2016, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: ghonk on April 16, 2016, 05:10:20 PM
I would do nothing.
Is it because you would be laughing to hard to help? ;D
[/quote]
no...likely because he'd be taking a leak on him and only has one hand free.... ;D |^| ;D
[/quote]
I'd be laughing too hard while taking a leak on his head. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Quote from: wsantia1 on April 16, 2016, 06:54:23 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 16, 2016, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: ghonk on April 16, 2016, 05:10:20 PM
I would do nothing.
Is it because you would be laughing to hard to help? ;D
no...likely because he'd be taking a leak on him and only has one hand free.... ;D |^| ;D
[/quote]
I'd be laughing too hard while taking a leak on his head. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
[/quote]
...maybe Bernie's boidy will kelp him...?
On second though,i would step on his fingers.
If no one was watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSm68IEDDT0
I'd see how good he really is at making a deal.
thanks to OP.... |^|
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGDzmK1iXHUPqSY/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 19, 2016, 06:36:51 AM
thanks to OP.... |^|
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGDzmK1iXHUPqSY/giphy.gif)
I know I recognized Ted Cruz from somewhere. mim mim mim
That's really a cheap shot at Al Lewis..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Lewis_(actor) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Lewis_(actor))
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on April 19, 2016, 08:00:17 AM
That's really a cheap shot at Al Lewis..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Lewis_(actor) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Lewis_(actor))
Dennis
yes it is....... |^|
Which is older,a vampire or Ted's idea's of how the country should be run?
And Ted is much scarier,a vampire just wants to suck out all of your blood until your dead.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/01/3745131/ted-cruz-iowa-win/
If Trump wins the election it'll be the first time in history that a billionaire moved into public housing vacated by a black family!
I heard this morning on NPR that George Wallace's daughter is going to be on this afternoon talking about how Donald is very much like her father.....
https://youtu.be/L1rd6xfGg5s
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage)
Dennis
I heard it too. Should be a good story.
Quote from: BallAquatics on April 22, 2016, 10:52:36 AM
I heard this morning on NPR that George Wallace's daughter is going to be on this afternoon talking about how Donald is very much like her father.....
Was she bragging or complaining?
It didn't sound like she was bragging, but it was just a promo. I'm looking forward to hearing the full story.
George Wallace is an interesting case.
He was virulently anti-integration for quite a while, but after he got shot he made a political come back (which was much more pro-black) and got elected with a lot of black support.
Somewhat like Lyndon Johnson, who as a senator had a lot of history backing anti-black legislation, but then became president and was then one of the most progressive presidents wrt racial issues.
He also predicted, when he was getting these things done, that the democrats would lose the "Solid South". Now its the "Solid South" for the GOP.
Johnson said that southern democrats would be lost for a generation. It's been longer than a generation.
Yes it has.
Not the story I thought it would be but still an excellent comparison. http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage
Home> Newsroom> Must Read> Must Reads
College Could Be Free In America If Corporations Paid Reagan-Era Taxes
By: Shahien Nasiripour
The Huffington Post
Thursday, April 21, 2016
If corporations paid the same tax rate as they did under Ronald Reagan, governments in the U.S. would have enough money to fund prekindergarten for every 4-year-old in America and higher education for every American attending public colleges and universities, according to a Huffington Post review of government data.
Corporations paid an effective tax rate of 31.7 percent on average during Reagan?s eight years in the White House, according to Commerce Department figures that measure corporate profits and taxes paid to local, state, federal and foreign governments.
But in the seven full years President Barack Obama has occupied the post, corporations have enjoyed a 22.8 percent effective tax rate on their profits, Commerce Department data show.
The average annual difference, if applying Reagan-era tax rates to Obama-era profits, comes out to $166.7 billion.
That?s enough to cover the estimated $25 billion in annual costs to allow every 4-year-old in the nation to attend public pre-K programs and the close to $65 billion that students spend on tuition to attend public colleges and universities, leaving close to $78 billion ? roughly the amount that the federal government spent on food stamps during the most recent fiscal year ? left over to fund other public policy priorities in the U.S. and abroad.
-more-
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/college-could-be-free-in-america-if-corporations-paid-reagan-era-taxes (http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/college-could-be-free-in-america-if-corporations-paid-reagan-era-taxes)
The IRS is collecting record revenues these last couple of years. How much more of OUR money do they want to confiscate? We don't have an income problem. We have a spending problem.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/13/1-48-trillion-government-collects-record-high-taxes-in-first-half-fiscal-2016.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/15/feds-tax-take-hits-all-time-high/?page=all
In the not-too-distant past, talk in the political world of the U.S. budget deficit was all the rage. As the Tea Party ?movement? took shape, conservatives quite literally took to the streets to express their fear that President Obama and Democrats were failing to address the ?out of control? deficit.
Congressional Republicans agreed. As recently as 2013, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was asked about the radicalism of his political agenda and he responded, ?[W]hat I would say is extreme is a trillion-dollar deficit every year.? Around the same time, then-House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) argued that Congress should be ?focused on trying to deal with the ultimate problem, which is this growing deficit.?
The Republican rhetoric was ridiculously wrong. We don?t have a trillion-dollar deficit; the deficit isn?t the ultimate problem; and it?s not growing.
Strong growth in individual tax collection drove the U.S. budget deficit to a fresh Obama-era low in fiscal 2015, the Treasury Department said Thursday.
For the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30 the shortfall was $439 billion, a decrease of 9%, or $44 billion, from last year. The deficit is the smallest of Barack Obama?s presidency and the lowest since 2007 in both dollar terms and as a percentage of gross domestic product.
Keep in mind, in the Obama era, the deficit has shrunk by $1 trillion. That?s ?trillion,? with a ?t.? As a percentage of the economy, the deficit is now down to just 2.5%, which is below the average of the past half-century, and down from 9.8% when the president took office.
Revisiting our coverage from several months ago, I looked for press releases from the ?Obama is turning us into Greece!? crowd, eager to see them celebrate President Obama?s striking record on deficit reduction, but so far, nothing has turned up. Maybe they?re busy.
And in practical terms, that?s a shame. The vast majority of Americans are absolutely certain ? thanks to deceptive Republican rhetoric and unfortunate news coverage ? that the deficit has soared in the Obama era. Late last year, a Bloomberg Politics Poll found that 73% of the public believes the deficit has gotten bigger over the last six years.
The year before, the same pollster found that only 6% of Americans realized the deficit was shrinking. It helps explain why the president hasn?t gotten any credit for deficit reduction, which seems like the sort of development Tea Partiers and the Beltway?s Very Serious People should consider an extraordinary accomplishment.
As we talked about last year, it?s tempting to conclude that the public?s confusion doesn?t matter. In the Clinton era, the deficit disappeared entirely, and Americans had no idea.
But there?s another side to this. Whether or not Americans know and/or understand the basics of the fiscal argument may not have a practical impact on the debate itself, but the fact remains that voters are ultimately responsible for electing policymakers. If Americans believe, incorrectly, that the deficit is getting bigger, these same voters may be inclined to vote for candidates who?ll slash public investments and undermine social-insurance programs ? which would have real-world consequences.
Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don?t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.
That said, if we?re going to have a fiscal debate, it should at least be rooted in reality, not silly misconceptions. And the reality is, we?re witnessing deficit reduction at a truly remarkable clip. Every conservative complaint about fiscal recklessness and irresponsibility in the Obama era is quantifiably ridiculous.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/deficit-shrinks-1-trillion-obama-era (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/deficit-shrinks-1-trillion-obama-era)
So Jon then you're beloved Clinton was in reality a jackass for having a surplus instead of running up the spending.
GWB was then a genius because he did spend.
Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don?t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.
The long-term outlook for the federal budget has worsened dramatically over the past several years, in the wake of the 2007?2009 recession and slow recovery. Between 2008 and 2012, financial turmoil and a severe drop in economic activity, combined with various policies implemented in response to those conditions, sharply reduced federal revenues and increased spending. As a result, budget deficits rose: They totaled $5.6 trillion in those five years, and in four of the five years, they were larger relative to the size of the economy than they had been in any year since 1946. Because of the large deficits, federal debt held by the public soared, nearly doubling during the period. It is now equivalent to about 74 percent of the economy?s annual output, or gross domestic product (GDP)?a higher percentage than at any point in U.S. history except a seven-year period around World War II.
If current law remained generally unchanged in the future, federal debt held by the public would decline slightly relative to GDP over the next few years, CBO projects. After that, however, growing budget deficits?caused mainly by the aging of the population and rising health care costs?would push debt back to, and then above, its current high level. The deficit would grow from less than 3 percent of GDP this year to more than 6 percent in 2040. At that point, 25 years from now, federal debt held by the public would exceed 100 percent of GDP.
Moreover, debt would still be on an upward path relative to the size of the economy. Consequently, the policy changes needed to reduce debt to any given amount would become larger and larger over time. The rising debt could not be sustained indefinitely; the government?s creditors would eventually begin to doubt its ability to cut spending or raise revenues by enough to pay its debt obligations, forcing the government to pay much higher interest rates to borrow money.
What Is the Outlook for the Budget in the Next 10 Years?
The economy?s gradual recovery from the recession, the waning budgetary effects of policies enacted in response to the weak economy, and other changes to tax and spending laws will cause the deficit to shrink in 2015 to its smallest percentage of GDP since 2007, CBO projects?2.7 percent, a much smaller percentage than the recent peak of nearly 10 percent in 2009. Throughout the next decade, however, an aging population, rising health care costs per person, and an increasing number of recipients of exchange subsidies and Medicaid benefits attributable to the Affordable Care Act would push up spending for some of the largest federal programs if current laws governing those programs remained unchanged. Moreover, CBO expects interest rates to rebound in coming years from their current unusually low levels, raising the government?s interest payments on debt.
Budget deficits would not substantially increase at first, but eventually they would begin to rise. They would approach 4 percent of GDP toward the end of the 10-year period spanned by CBO?s baseline budget projections, the agency anticipates. Deficits over the entire period would total about $7.4 trillion.
With deficits projected to remain close to their current percentage of GDP for the next few years, federal debt held by the public would remain at a very high level, between 73 percent and 74 percent of GDP, from 2016 through 2021. Thereafter, the larger deficits would boost debt?to 78 percent of GDP by the end of 2025.
What Is the Outlook for the Budget Through 2040?
To analyze the state of the budget in the long term, CBO has extrapolated its 10-year baseline projections through 2040, yielding a set of extended baseline projections that span a total of 25 years. (Both sets of projections generally incorporate the assumption that current law will not change.) Mainly because of the aging of the population and rising health care costs, the extended baseline projections show revenues that fall well short of spending over the long term, producing a substantial imbalance in the federal budget. As a result, budget deficits are projected to rise steadily and, by 2040, to raise federal debt held by the public to a percentage of GDP seen at only one previous time in U.S. history?the final year of World War II and the following year.\
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/50250
Under the President?s proposals, the federal budget deficit would decline in 2017 and 2018. After that, however, outlays would rise more quickly than revenues, so deficits would grow. As a result, federal debt held by the public would grow as well. By 2026?the end of the period covered by the President?s budget?such debt would be higher than it is now, measured as a percentage of the nation?s economic output, and it would be rising.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51383
When was the last time we actually had a budget anyway? Seems Harry tabled about every one of them and we've been on CR forever.
I wonder if people actually understand how our process works and what a "cut" truly is.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 23, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
So Jon then you're beloved Clinton was in reality a jackass for having a surplus instead of running up the spending.
GWB was then a genius because he did spend.
Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don?t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.
LOL.....look at what you wrote.....LOL...the Repub's are holding up those very spending objectives in Congress....and have been.....and no, really...supply side economics doesn't work......but then you know that right?....and I think you have it wrong about borrowing more too....geez Louise....then you'd blame the high deficit on President Obama........typical rightie wants his cake and eat it too......LOLOLOLOL.....
I see that you're 'cherry pick'n articles again.....how convenient.. |^|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy8tIA50YM4
It begins.............
>>>>>>>>>>>
ColoradoCare is a resident-owned, non-governmental health care financing system designed to ensure comprehensive, quality, accessible, lifetime health care for every Colorado resident. The benefit package would enhance the comprehensive health care services required by Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act. Premiums would be collected from Coloradans based on income, securing health care regardless of financial circumstance. This efficient, universal system would operate in the interests of Coloradans. By eliminating layers of bureaucracy and reducing administrative and other nonmedical costs, ColoradoCare would cover all residents and cost less than the current system.
Comprehensive benefits must include primary and specialty care; hospitalization; prescription drugs and medical equipment; mental health and substance use services, including behavioral health treatment; emergency and urgent care; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; pediatric care including oral, vision and hearing services; laboratory services; maternity and newborn care; and palliative and end-of-life care. Additional benefits can be provided.
ColoradoCare replaces the medical portion of Workers? Compensation. There will be no deductibles. Designated primary and preventive care services have no co-payments. Any other co-payments or cost-sharing must have ColoradoCare?s prior approval and can be waived to insure access to proper care. ColoradoCare will assure statewide access to emergency and trauma services. Beneficiaries will choose their primary care professionals. Beneficiaries temporarily living or traveling in another state will receive coverage.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/13096311_10209603361226781_896407216562791825_n.jpg?oh=58bfe3ac373bc6d5a1ac83c7c2a4d37c&oe=57760581)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 23, 2016, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 23, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
So Jon then you're beloved Clinton was in reality a jackass for having a surplus instead of running up the spending.
GWB was then a genius because he did spend.
Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don?t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.
LOL.....look at what you wrote.....LOL...the Repub's are holding up those very spending objectives in Congress....and have been.....and no, really...supply side economics doesn't work......but then you know that right?....and I think you have it wrong about borrowing more too....geez Louise....then you'd blame the high deficit on President Obama........typical rightie wants his cake and eat it too......LOLOLOLOL.....
I see that you're 'cherry pick'n articles again.....how convenient.. |^|
Getting in touch with the liberal side. Unlike them however I do show the facts.
What value is having cake and not being able to eat it? That's just stupid.
That postscript is from the Rachel Maddow you posted. Your point?
True Conservatives want to reign in spending not add to it.
We also know Keynesian economics doesn't work. That was proven during FDR and now during Hussein. We've thrown trillions into the economy and it is no better.
I'll take a bit of that supply side stuff. Worked for Reagan.
http://www.cato.org/blog/four-reasons-why-keynesian-stimulus-does-not-work
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2013/10/19/history-shows-keynesian-economics-doesnt-work.html
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 25, 2016, 11:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 23, 2016, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on April 23, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
So Jon then you're beloved Clinton was in reality a jackass for having a surplus instead of running up the spending.
GWB was then a genius because he did spend.
Postscript: To reiterate a point that bears repeating, I don?t necessarily consider this sharp reduction in the deficit to be good news. If it were up to me, federal officials would be borrowing more, not less, taking advantage of low interest rates, investing heavily in infrastructure and economic development, creating millions of jobs, and leaving deficit reduction for another day.
LOL.....look at what you wrote.....LOL...the Repub's are holding up those very spending objectives in Congress....and have been.....and no, really...supply side economics doesn't work......but then you know that right?....and I think you have it wrong about borrowing more too....geez Louise....then you'd blame the high deficit on President Obama........typical rightie wants his cake and eat it too......LOLOLOLOL.....
I see that you're 'cherry pick'n articles again.....how convenient.. |^|
Getting in touch with the liberal side. Unlike them however I do show the facts.
What value is having cake and not being able to eat it? That's just stupid.
That postscript is from the Rachel Maddow you posted. Your point?
True Conservatives want to reign in spending not add to it.
We also know Keynesian economics doesn't work. That was proven during FDR and now during Hussein. We've thrown trillions into the economy and it is no better.
I'll take a bit of that supply side stuff. Worked for Reagan.
...no, supply side economics didn't work for Reagan.....LOL...it was a disaster...and Clinton rescued us....
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/13015534_843951149050257_6097011562785776595_n.jpg?oh=21d33f42a48082feb7ed2082fa0e66e5&oe=57BE18D1)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 25, 2016, 12:52:58 PM
...and Clinton rescued us....
...among other things LOL
https://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs
...and then, there's Little Bill...
https://youtu.be/o_S9JQIdVUk
Dennis
LOL..........what a pair......we're so lucky too....it could have been another Reagan..OOOooooh Nooooo....or a Bush....??...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXL7C0JQDM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXL7C0JQDM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BIW6qyrdu4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BIW6qyrdu4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxHBx6H-xFo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxHBx6H-xFo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbSON75XvDw
(http://s32.postimg.org/kc3j855s5/Cartoon_Lounge_Trump_Cartoons02_1200.jpg)
Current opinions on Climate Change (AKA Global Warming).
Polling shows increased interest:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-and-republicans-are-growing-more-worried-over-climate-change/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-and-republicans-are-growing-more-worried-over-climate-change/)
Quote from: BillT on April 27, 2016, 05:38:12 PM
Current opinions on Climate Change (AKA Global Warming).
Polling shows increased interest:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-and-republicans-are-growing-more-worried-over-climate-change/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-and-republicans-are-growing-more-worried-over-climate-change/)
...yup, ya think?.....about time....sheesh....
Frank Zappa ?
'Republicans stand for raw, unbridled evil and greed and ignorance smothered in balloons and ribbons.'
LOL....
"contrary to the perception that the Republican establishment wants anyone but Trump:
"When specifically asked his opinions on Ted Cruz, Boehner made a face, drawing laughter from the crowd.
?Lucifer in the flesh,? the former speaker said. ?I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.?
Boehner described other Republican candidates as friends. In particular, the former speaker said he has played golf with Donald Trump for years and that they were ?texting buddies....?
Boehner for the most part accepted Trump as the presumptive Republican nominee, though he did express his surprise at the candidate?s success. While he did not praise Trump?s policies, the Speaker did say he would vote for Trump in the general election if he becomes the Republican nominee. The former Speaker said he would not, however, vote for Cruz."
Boehner didn't like much of anyone in that press conference. He got his feelings hurt when his own guys threw him out. I can't blame him.
Thank God I'm not a republican. It would be a bitch having to choose between Turmp and Boehner. I feel sorry for the republican party. They are in a huge mess. Their constituency is in a shambles.
http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html
(http://www.aquaboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5105&d=1461874488)
Trump Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3iysadPoM
(https://scontent.fphx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12961485_1379308742094804_2081691581277619921_n.jpg?oh=1e88ff6441bab546294a3af236dc8a03&oe=57AE4BD3)
Quote from: Mugwump on April 30, 2016, 07:28:26 AM
(https://scontent.fphx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12961485_1379308742094804_2081691581277619921_n.jpg?oh=1e88ff6441bab546294a3af236dc8a03&oe=57AE4BD3)
That's just the way I see it.
Seems to sum it up well.
*
So, Trump is the Republican nominee and a lot of Republicans are unset.
Is that because they think:
A) Republican conservatism (poorly defined IMO) is dead (or at least disrupted)?
or
B) Because they are afraid the Republican party is going to lose in lots of races?
Is that a trick question. ;D
I'm going to go out on a limb and say B.
Quote from: BillT on May 04, 2016, 07:01:15 PM
So, Trump is the Republican nominee and a lot of Republicans are unset.
On NPR yesterday, I listened to it explained that Trump was the most Democrat of all the Republican candidates. The fellow doing the explaining said Trump has a long history of supporting Democrat beliefs and politicians and that he was afraid he would continue in these endeavors.
Sort of like, he was saying one thing and going to do something different after being elected. Can you imagine that!!! LOL
Dennis
lol Imagine that ::)
https://www.facebook.com/snl/videos/10154130374836303/ (https://www.facebook.com/snl/videos/10154130374836303/)
YOUNGSTOWN, OH ? Local Donald Trump supporter David Kearney informed reporters Thursday that, although his preferred candidate had already effectively secured the GOP nomination for president, he still planned on rioting at the Republican National Convention anyway. ?I guess there?s not going to be a contested convention thing, but I definitely still want to head over to Cleveland and smash some stuff,? said Kearney, adding that regardless of how many delegates Trump amassed, he planned to show up outside Quicken Loans Arena with a baseball bat on July 18 ready to take out a considerable amount of aggression. ?One way or another, I?m going to spend the day yelling at and attacking anyone who crosses my path. I already had my heart set on picking up a garbage can and chucking it through a window, and this doesn?t change a thing. I?ve been looking forward to raising hell in the streets for months.? Kearney admitted, however, that it would be nice to be able to simply relax and enjoy setting a police car on fire without having to worry about whether or not Trump would be the Republican nominee.
http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-supporter-still-planning-rioting-national-co-52878
"Weekend at Bernie's"....???......LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/8273_995734480521594_4310760231751915785_n.jpg?oh=b696a4661eb071055968b26a25813359&oe=57E6DD8E)
Here is an old but funny tweet from Patton Oswald that I just recently found:
Ammon Bundy stares from the back of a police van.
Will his cause be remembered?
A heron glides through the moonlight,
clutching a dildo.
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are in a bar. Donald leans over, and with a smile on his face, says, ?The media is really tearing you apart for that scandal.?
Hillary: ?You mean my lying about Benghazi??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?You mean the massive voter fraud??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?You mean the military not getting their votes counted??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Using my secret private server with classified material to hide my activities??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything lse??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, hiring cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?You mean the drones being operated in our own country without the benefit of the law??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it declared bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity deals??
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?The funding of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine that led to the toppling of the democratically elected president and to the biggest crisis that country has had since WWII??
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Turning Libya into chaos??
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Being the mastermind of the so-called ?Arab Spring? that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa ?
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi and go to sleep?
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends??
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Encouraging and supporting the murders of Palestinians and the destruction of their homes, towns and villages by Israel ??
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the ?moderate? terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII
Trump: ?No the other one:?
Hillary: ?Leaving Iraq in chaos? ?
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?The DOJ spying on the press??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and three months later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?The NSA monitoring citizens? ??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress??
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?Threats to all of Bill?s former mistresses to keep them quiet?
Trump: ?No, the other one.?
Hillary: ?I give up! ? Oh wait, I think I?ve got it! When I stole the White House furniture and silverware when Bill left office??
Trump: ?THAT?S IT! I almost forgot about that one?.
Dennis
LOL......saw that....or similar.....'righties' never give up in there slander tactics..... wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf
Quote from: Mugwump on May 10, 2016, 05:31:45 PM
LOL......saw that....or similar.....'righties' never give up in there slander tactics..... wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf wfwf
Because that's all they are good for,and they will believe anything they are told if it's true of not.
I would call then sheep, but that would be insulting,since sheep are actually good for something,meat,wool etc.
The only thing they have left to do now is start working on their conspiracy theories,for when their boy get slaughtered in november.
Here is an interesting article.
To me it is centered on the difference between serious minded conservatives and the more tactically oriented political hacks (who will do anything if it supports their side (this would include many ideologues)):
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/the-fall-of-the-heritage-foundation-and-the-death-of-republican-ideas/279955/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/the-fall-of-the-heritage-foundation-and-the-death-of-republican-ideas/279955/)
I don't disagree with all Republican thought.
They have come up with good ideas in the past.
Several of their best ideas have been abandoned to the Democrats (probably because if the Democrats touched them, they became icky).
Hopefully they can start doing it again.
Or whatever may become of the Republican party.
Donald Trump was visiting a primary school in Orlando and visited a grade four class.
They were in the middle of a discussion related to meanings of some words.
The teacher asked Mr.Trump if he would like to lead the discussion on the word "tragedy."
So the illustrious Republican candidate asked the class for an example of a 'tragedy'.
One little boy stood up and offered: "If my best friend, who lives on a farm, is playing inthe field and a tractor runs him over and kills him, that would be a tragedy."
"No," said Trump, "that would be an accident."
A little girl raised her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50 children drove off a cliff, killing everyone, that would be a tragedy."
"I'm afraid not," explained Trump. "That's what we would call a greatloss."
The room went silent. No other child volunteered. Trump searched the room.
"Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of a tragedy?"
Finally at the back of the room, Little Johnny raised his hand. The teacher held her breath.
In a quiet voice he said: "If the plane carrying you Mr. Trump was struck by a 'friendly fire' missile and blown to smithereens that would be a tragedy."
"Fantastic!" exclaimed Trump, "That's right. And can you tell me why that would be a tragedy?"
"Well," says Johnny, "It has to be a tragedy, because it sure as hell wouldn't be a great loss.... and you can bet your sweet ass it wouldn't be an accident either!"
What has become of the people in Texas ??.....are they that stupid?
======
Houston School Officials Call Police After Student Tries Buying Lunch With $2 Bill
Although now in low circulation, the $2 bill is a real thing but some people who have never seen one invariably think it's funny money.
HOUSTON, TX -- There are some people who've never seen a $2 bill, including, it would seem police, school officials and cafeteria workers in Houston who were convinced an eighth-grader was using counterfeit money to buy chicken nuggets during lunch.
But the $2 bill is a real thing -- a legal denomination of U.S. currency first issued in the early part of the 20th century, produced until 1966 and then reissued ten years later. It's got a picture of Thomas Jefferson on the front and a reproduction of The Declaration of Independence by John Trumbull on the reverse side.
Some of us remember as kids occasionally coming across such bills, which are now seldom seen in circulation. They weren't too much in demand among merchants, prompting the U.S. Treasury to pull back on their production.
But they're out there, and they're perfectly legal to use.
Yet when student Danesiah Neal tried to pay for her chicken nuggets with such a bill, the purchase was flagged. Police were called.
According to media reports, the scene of the "crime" was Fort Bend Independent School District's Christa McAuliffe Middle School, just outside Houston proper.
?I went to the lunch line, and they said my $2 bill was fake,? the eighth-grader told KTRK-TV. ?They gave it to the police. Then they sent me to the police office. A police officer said I could be in big trouble.?
School officials then called the student's grandmother, who had given her the bill: " 'Did you give Danesiah a $2 bill for lunch?' " the grandmother, Sharon Kay Joseph, recalled being asked. "He told me it was fake."
Doggedly on the case, police then located the convenience store where the student claimed she had been given the bill as part of her change after a purchase. Then, a crack team of Houston detectives took the circa-1953 bill to a nearby bank, where it was scrutinized and examined before being deemed legitimate legal tender.
?He brought me my $2 bill back,? Joseph told KTRK of being visited by a school official after the misunderstanding. "He didn?t apologize. He should have, and the school should have because they pulled Danesiah out of lunch, and she didn?t eat lunch that day because they took her money.?
Charges were not filed. But the grandmother is still upset over the entire episode.
?It was very outrageous for them to do it,? Joseph said. ?There was no need for police involvement. They?re charging kids like they?re adults now.?
I have a couple of $2 bills laying around somewhere.
This is a poor combination of really stupid (or to be nicer, ignorant) people, thinking (for no apparent reason) that they know what they are talking about, and being too arrogant or insecure to apologize or admit they were wrong.
Sounds just like a "conservative".
Quote from: BillT on May 14, 2016, 11:41:42 AM
I have a couple of $2 bills laying around somewhere.
This is a poor combination of really stupid (or to be nicer, ignorant) people, thinking (for no apparent reason) that they know what they are talking about, and being too arrogant or insecure to apologize or admit they were wrong.
Sounds just like a "conservative".
+1
Quote from: Mugwump on May 14, 2016, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: BillT on May 14, 2016, 11:41:42 AM
I have a couple of $2 bills laying around somewhere.
This is a poor combination of really stupid (or to be nicer, ignorant) people, thinking (for no apparent reason) that they know what they are talking about, and being too arrogant or insecure to apologize or admit they were wrong.
Sounds just like a "conservative".
+1
+2
Quote from: Mugwump on May 14, 2016, 07:30:25 AM
What has become of the people in Texas ??.....are they that stupid?
Yep. After all they did put Ted Cruz in the Senate. huh
Quote from: wsantia1 on May 14, 2016, 12:26:45 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on May 14, 2016, 07:30:25 AM
What has become of the people in Texas ??.....are they that stupid?
Yep. After all they did put Ted Cruz in the Senate. huh
LOL..... |^|
I sold a piece of vintage audio on craigslist last year,and the guy paid me with 6 old $20 bills,from the 70's if i remember correctly.
So i go to the gas station to buy some cigarettes and the cashier wouldn't accept one of them,said her scanner AND drop box that has a scanner both rejected it.
She asked me if i had something else,so i give her another one of the 20's,nope same thing.
Now she has ME thinking maybe i got ripped off,remembering hearing that fake bills are sometimes passed off on CL purchases.
So now i go home and start examining them with a magnifying glass,look real to me,just printed before the security features were added.
Now i guess i have to take them to the bank and deposit them,and use my debit card before i can buy anything.
OH WAIT,what happens if the bank tells me they are fake,and they sure as hell aren't going to give them back to me.
Well that's NOT an option, :).
I ended up buying a multi meter at menards with 4 of them,which i DID NOT need,and took it back the next day for a refund.
My fishing license with another at walmart,AFTER the cashier had to get the bill OK'ed by a manager.
And some smokes at a different gas station,after the guy almost stared a hole through my last 20.
Stupid stupid stupid. I think that the reason that an apology was not offered because admitting that they had been wrong would have opened them up to a law suit. People in authority these days say that "mistakes were made" rather than, "Forgive me, I made a mistake."
(http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/images/hilary.jpg)
https://youtu.be/SAzIahY2Rps
Dennis
...Whoa...a lotta hate coming outta that clip.....the makers are worse than their subject this time around......that's a piece of work....wow
Quote from: Mugwump on May 15, 2016, 07:47:45 AM
...Whoa...a lotta hate coming outta that clip.....the makers are worse than their subject this time around......that's a piece of work....wow
I'm sure The Donald will have some nice gotcha moments coming up soon with all of the BS he is spewing.
Yes, it's hard to swallow that politics in this country have degenerated to a choice between these two sad sacks.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on May 15, 2016, 08:17:52 AM
Yes, it's hard to swallow that politics in this country have degenerated to a choice between these two sad sacks.....
Dennis
I agree. huh
I will take Clinton in a heartbeat over what the GOP had to offer,2 psychopaths in Trump and Cruz.
How many did they start out with,was it 16.And the crazier they were the more support they got.
What does that tell you about the GOP party?
The halfway sane ones DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE.
TRUMPKIN
Ben Carson: Former GOP Candidate Names Potential Vice President Nominees for Donald Trump
Carson, who is part of Trump's vice presidential search committee, named Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie as potentials for the role to The Washington Post.
...run....run....run.......HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Mugwump on May 16, 2016, 11:03:31 AM
Ben Carson: Former GOP Candidate Names Potential Vice President Nominees for Donald Drumpf
Carson, who is part of Drumpf's vice presidential search committee, named Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie as potentials for the role to The Washington Post.
...run....run....run.......HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can't make this shit up.
I don't know anything about Kasich,must be the only sane one in the bunch.
Which means he can't possibly be the choice,wouldn't want to break with the party line.
You know,a turd in a suit/skirt.
Kasich is the only sane one.
Here is a NY Times article on GMO foods and labeling that makes sense to me (GMO OK, but label well):
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/opinion/i-run-a-gmo-company-and-i-support-gmo-labeling.html?emc=edit_th_20160516&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/opinion/i-run-a-gmo-company-and-i-support-gmo-labeling.html?emc=edit_th_20160516&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13245278_10154884724143327_6855681254396546646_n.jpg?oh=2316c8bf6c1c1656a4410e6dee4efaf8&oe=57A73B02)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13177858_10154878531998327_4138797243031807570_n.jpg?oh=b8078b3df96bbe57103b12f38f5aea32&oe=57E2BC9E)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13178953_1336618036354530_8212102637225793328_n.jpg?oh=cb07674a3df0ba961dabeed1fddfb2f9&oe=579F82F6)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174021_1196864160347518_363859082671934544_n.jpg?oh=3aee131f40387880608ff84f21646540&oe=5799F684)
Dennis - bored at 5:00AM.....
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/6273a94/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F72%2F3d%2F8197623140f7a63497dab97f1e85%2Fbulgaria.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/691e108/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F9f%2F3b%2Fd76beaf740b291550f41cb95acda%2Fuae.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/4a44c49/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F09%2F1e%2Fe430dc5249bba06798ec6ec20479%2F3-joel-pett-lexington-herald-leader.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/cc68b05/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F82%2F11%2Fd798b73c4c6683f3f1f08e2eb2ac%2F6-david-horsey-los-angeles-times-and-tribune-media.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/45a2c32/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F21%2F5a%2F2d16415a4cd2a3685d9cb230baa1%2F8-tim-egan-deep-cover.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/acf3ef1/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fda%2Fc5%2Fc835081947858586cd60934ec93f%2F7-steve-artley.jpg)
(http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/bd05a3d/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F60%2F37%2Fd34274974270a2e536b80f2a0095%2F12-steve-kelley-creators.jpg)
(http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/files/20_178803.jpg?resize=807x807)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZHhC-q-AZV8/VylM0KK5dxI/AAAAAAABJMA/ojqlgqdv6_k2b71wspoFoNCjQnH35twgwCLcB/s1600/Capture.JPG)
Obama Alienates Millions with Incendiary Pro-Knowledge Remarks
By Andy Borowitz
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ObamaRutgers-1200.jpg)
NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY (The Borowitz Report)?President Obama handed the Republican Party a gift for the general election by making a series of offensive pro-knowledge remarks at Rutgers University over the weekend, a leading Republican official said on Monday.
According to Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, the President?s inflammatory comments, in which he offered full-throated praise for such controversial fields of knowledge as math and science, are sure to come back to haunt the Democrats in November.
?If President Obama was trying to alienate millions of Americans in one speech, mission accomplished,? Priebus told Fox News. ?When I watched him speak, I said to myself, ?Well, Christmas came early this year.? ?
While many Republicans expected Obama to walk back his ill-advised praise of knowledge, facts, and evidence, the White House as of Monday morning had refused to do so.
?The President seems to be doubling down on this, which is not surprising,? Priebus said. ?This is a man who never met a fact he didn?t like.?
The R.N.C. chairman said that the Party was already creating negative ads that would make extensive use of the President?s polarizing pro-knowledge rant.
?This fall, we will ask the American people, ?Do you want four more years of knowledge, or do you want something else?? ? Priebus said. ?Because the Republican Party has something else.?
Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Passes 400 ppm mark.
Up more than 1/8 since between 1985 and 1990 with no sign of slowing down (see graph)!
Too bad for future generations.
It won't be us, it will be our descendants! :(
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-soars-past-crucial-milestone?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-16&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=491753 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-soars-past-crucial-milestone?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-16&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=491753)
Quote from: BillT on May 17, 2016, 12:53:39 PM
Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Passes 400 ppm mark.
Up more than 1/8 since between 1985 and 1990 with no sign of slowing down (see graph)!
Too bad for future generations.
It won't be us, it will be our descendants! :(
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-soars-past-crucial-milestone?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-16&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=491753 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-soars-past-crucial-milestone?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-16&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=491753)
I know.....sad :'(
It's being reported that Drumpf has narrowed his VP choice down to two.
Cookie and Wizzo.
*
Scientific review of GMO organisms:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/us-panel-releases-consensus-genetically-engineered-crops?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-17&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=494353 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/us-panel-releases-consensus-genetically-engineered-crops?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-05-17&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=494353)
https://youtu.be/D-y_N4u0uRQ
https://youtu.be/CT_uEV3q_ak
Dennis
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12032987_1016625291715666_8215595855332744284_n.jpg?oh=e4a4a06a8892328e3c04d095e74bc014&oe=57E65665)
Quote from: Mugwump on May 19, 2016, 08:08:58 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12032987_1016625291715666_8215595855332744284_n.jpg?oh=e4a4a06a8892328e3c04d095e74bc014&oe=57E65665)
lol. How true.
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/ced41bd65488a0b24b3a043d3ae695b0/tumblr_o6hjuugkCz1qzofaho1_500.jpg)
Einstein developed this remarkable theory:
Energy = Mass x Speed of Light squared.......
A brilliant genius as we all know.
A lesser known application of Einstein's formula determined: If you were to strip naked and run around in a circle at the speed of light it could be possible for you to sodomize yourself!
-
Should you determine that you are not physically capable of achieving that speed at your age, you can easily achieve the same result by voting Donald Trump in the 2016 election.
...and on the other hand...
(https://gpaspectrum.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/nathan2.png?w=441&h=368)
Dennis
(http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-03-at-11.06.03-AM-1024x547.jpg)
Dennis
Meanwhile in Texas.....
"And THIS is why good grammar (including punctuation and singular/plural tense agreement) is important even in the age of Twitter. The reactionary right-wing Texas Republican Party platform declares: "Homosexuality is a chosen behavior that is contrary to the fundamental unchanging truths that has been ordained by God in the Bible, recognized by our nations founders, and shared by the majority of Texans.""
I'm thinking Sanders is turning into the bitter old guy version of John McCain,
but he's doing it before he even finishes losing.
Quote from: BillT on May 21, 2016, 12:00:24 PM
I'm thinking Sanders is turning into the bitter old guy version of John McCain,
but he's doing it before he even finishes losing.
I feel the same way. I liked what he was doing but he is turning me off now. huh
Quote from: BillT on May 21, 2016, 12:00:24 PM
I'm thinking Sanders is turning into the bitter old guy version of John McCain,
but he's doing it before he even finishes losing.
...'bitter' being the key word there......and yes, not the Bernie that we've seen earlier in the campaign season...even his supporters act different now....more violent....??.....
I expect they are a select few of his followers, but mass media like controversy (= ratings = money).
Quote from: BillT on May 21, 2016, 12:43:51 PM
I expect they are a select few of his followers, but mass media like controversy (= ratings = money).
Or, not even his followers. These days when an opportunity presents it's self, the fruit loops come out of the woodwork.
The dysfunction of the Democratic party isn't helping either.
Dennis
I think that all his talk about the election process being rigged sounds like our friend Trump. I liked him but I have started linking him less. He seems to be getting too big for his britches.
Quotethe fruit loops come out of the woodwork
I like this line.
To me, it embodies one of the appealing aspects on McCain.
Also I would like to see some fruit loops come out of the woodwork.
Bernie now seems to contrast Humbert Humphrey. My dad liked him a lot when I was a kid.
He was know as the Happy Warrior.
Always upbeat, kept plugging on for his causes.
*
*
(http://i.imgbox.com/DYAb5Ghg.jpg)
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_960w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/05/27/Foreign/Images/APTOPIX_Dem_2016_Clinton_Hickenlooper-38d4d.jpg&w=800)
North Korea endorses Trump.
Quote from: ghonk on May 31, 2016, 06:07:41 PM
North Korea endorses Trump.
(CNN)A North Korean state media website on Tuesday published an op-ed praising Donald Trump, who said two weeks ago he would be willing to speak directly to Pyongyang's young leader, Kim Jong Un.
Writing in DPRK Today, a self-described Chinese North Korean scholar named Han Yong Mook called the presumptive Republican nominee "wise" and a "far-sighted presidential candidate."
"The president that U.S. citizens must vote for is not that dull Hillary -- who claimed to adapt the Iranian model to resolve nuclear issues on the Korean Peninsula -- but Trump, who spoke of holding direct conversation with North Korea," he wrote.
The piece, translated by NK Today, an independent news site focused on North Korea, highlighted Trump's skepticism of American alliances in East Asia. The billionaire businessman also mused about withdrawing some or all of the more than 75,000 U.S. troops currently stationed in South Korea and Japan.
"Japan is better if it protects itself against this maniac of North Korea," Trump told CNN's Anderson Cooper in March. "We are better off, frankly, if South Korea is going to start protecting itself ... they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us."
"Who knew that the slogan 'Yankee Go Home' would come true like this?," the DPRK Today article said. "The day when the 'Yankee Go Home' slogan becomes real would be the day of Korean Unification."
The Heritage Foundation's Bruce Klingner, a former CIA officer, told CNN that Pyongyang would welcome any move -- by any potential leader -- to effectively weaken the U.S. relationship with South Korea and Japan.
"North Korea has had a long standing objective to divide the U.S. from its allies, to remove U.S. forces or at least reduce them on the peninsula," he said. "If they see a future policy-maker as advocating the removal of U.S. forces, that fulfills their objectives, so they would be in favor of anyone who's willing to do that."
The North Korean regime does not publicly support reunification of the Korean Peninsula and in the last week forcefully rejected Trump's initial nod at new engagement, calling it a "kind of propaganda or advertisement."
"This is useless, just a gesture for the presidential election," So Se Pyong, North Korea's ambassador to the U.N., told Reuters last week. "There is no meaning, no sincerity."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/31/politics/north-korea-donald-trump-wise-hillary-clinton-dull/
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/dcf63ece94f593964aaf88468250c92a/tumblr_o5dn9oaKPY1rse1ipo1_1280.jpg)
Quote from: Mugwump on May 31, 2016, 06:21:02 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/dcf63ece94f593964aaf88468250c92a/tumblr_o5dn9oaKPY1rse1ipo1_1280.jpg)
It's already happening. >:(
..yes, and for quite some time too...............agree, sad... wfwf
*
http://faxo.com/donald-trump-wins-by-a-nose-less-70701
Wittle Donnie had a poopy diaper.
...Sanders and Trump debate...........
It's a shame the debate didn't happen. Trump proposed it. Bernie said he was willing. Then the donald pussied out.
I only watched the highlights of Clinton's ROAST of Drumpf,going to see if i can find the whole speech.
It's being reported that Drumpf retreated to a corner,assumed a fetal position and mumbled to himself for several hours afterward.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 02, 2016, 07:46:33 PM
It's a shame the debate didn't happen. Trump proposed it. Bernie said he was willing. Then the donald pussied out.
Actually he didn't do it because the network wouldn't put up enough money to help women's causes. Trump wanted it as a fundraiser for women's causes.
Quote from: GraphicGr8s on June 03, 2016, 08:34:11 AM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 02, 2016, 07:46:33 PM
It's a shame the debate didn't happen. Trump proposed it. Bernie said he was willing. Then the donald pussied out.
Actually he didn't do it because the network wouldn't put up enough money to help women's causes. Trump wanted it as a fundraiser for women's causes.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....sure.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
The two men had been kicking around the idea of a debate since Trump appeared on Jimmy Kimmel Live, where Kimmel said that Sanders had passed along an invitation for Trump to debate him. Trump initially said he was open to the idea, then at a news conference he suggested he would debate on the condition that the networks donate $10 million to $15 million to charities that support women?s health causes.
But after Sanders? campaign manager pressed the issue, releasing a statement saying that the Sanders campaign had received offers from two networks wishing to host the debate and make ?a major contribution to charity,? Trump released a statement that seemingly sounded the death knell for that idea:
Based on the fact that the Democratic nominating process is totally rigged and Crooked Hillary Clinton and Deborah Wasserman Schultz will not allow Bernie Sanders to win, and now that I am the presumptive Republican nominee, it seems inappropriate that I would debate the second place finisher. Likewise, the networks want to make a killing on these events and are not proving to be too generous to charitable causes, in this case, women?s health issues. Therefore, as much as I want to debate Bernie Sanders ? and it would be an easy payday ? I will wait to debate the first place finisher in the Democratic Party, probably Crooked Hillary Clinton, or whoever it may be.
Sanders is trailing Hillary Clinton in the Democratic nomination race by hundreds of delegates and has repeatedly said he would look forward to debating Trump, while Clinton declined an invitation from Fox News to debate Sanders before the California primary.
Sanders told reporters in California that he hoped Mr. Trump would change his mind. ?Well, Mr. Trump, what are you afraid of?? Sanders said. ?If you?re so tough, let?s sit down and have that debate.?
First Amendment: Legal Experts Say GOP Presidential Candidate Donald Trump Could Threaten Rule of Law
Legal experts told The New York Times that Trump, who has criticized the press and proposed to ban Muslims from entering the U.S., could test the guarantees of religious freedom and freedom of speech.
Trump Shuttle: Donald Trump Airline Refused to Hire Veteran Due to Military Commitment, Report Says
The Huffington Post reported on a third case in which Donald Trump allegedly fired or refused to hire military reservists. Beattie's 1991 lawsuit against Trump was settled with a consent judgment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dan-rather-on-donald-trump_us_57507b87e4b0eb20fa0d2da2?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_1051584&
*
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/danzcolorplus6903.jpg)
Quote from: Mugwump on June 03, 2016, 07:35:31 PM
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/danzcolorplus6903.jpg)
Nice cartoon, but this guy needs lessons in drawing cannon carriages for cannons on ships:
four small wheels not two big ones.
...LOL.....Bill it's a 'toon'.... w!w
Yea but it could be a better one.
I know it wants to better itself!
Quote from: BillT on June 03, 2016, 09:14:04 PM
Yea but it could be a better one.
I know it wants to better itself!
...you may be right?.... huh
4 wheels could have suggested stability,so in this case 1 wheel would have been the best option.
Quote from: ghonk on June 04, 2016, 06:49:47 AM
4 wheels could have suggested stability,so in this case 1 wheel would have been the best option.
LOL...good thought...
And the cannon pointing in the other direction,and i have no doubt Drumpf's crew would still be frothing at the mouth.
The ship looks abandoned.
Sadly not the case in real life.
*
Conservative businessman Donald J. Trump is now the Republican nominee for President in 2016! Against all odds, Trump defeated the political establishment and 16 well-seasoned opponents, and still remains with record-high poll numbers.
Now, Trump?s campaign manager Corey Lewandowski appeared on CBS? This Morning and explained exactly who Trump is looking for in a Vice Presidential running mate.
This is a major hint, and fits perfectly with the unorthodox campaign Trump is running. Incredible!
As Lewandowksi explained, Trump will pick ?someone who has federal elective experience so they understand how to make sure that they can get his legislative agenda done.?
That means rumored candidates such as Gov. Chris Christie (NJ), Gov. Rick Scott (FL) and Gov. Rick Perry (TX) would be disqualified.
However, conservatives such as Gov. Mike Pence (IN) fits the description, because he?s a former Congressman. Also, this means former head of state George Bush is ? by far ? the most likely candidate, as he has extensive Federal legislative experience and was an early Trump supporter.
Lewandowski opined that the Federal agenda Trump needs help with includes, ?tax cuts for the middle class, reducing our debt ? creating a better economy, renegotiating our bad trade deals.?
This is a bombshell scoop and should be interesting news leading up to the RNC convention in Cleveland, Ohio:
What do you think about Trump likely picking George Bush as his VP running mate?
Won't happen. Sounds like a joke to me.
Bush wasn't an early Trump supporter. He ran against him and they were very antagonistic.
It will be interesting to see who he chooses. He's been pretty weird and negative recently.
He going to have to say something that seriously addresses some issue eventually, or else anybody will be able to beat him.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/27/campaign-not-doing-trump-hotels-any-favors-as-bookings-plummet-report.html
I so want it to be done and over with. Just 5 more months of suffering. Bernie will fall into line, I feel it. I yearn for a third party candidate. I am too old to move from the place I love to Canada.
There are a lot of "third parties" (libertarian for example ("the only party with two elected Republicans on their ticket")), just not so many good parties.
Party On!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYoOPgeTMQc
Here is a question that should be asked of Donald Trump, but has not been yet:
Donald Trump claims judges of Mexican or Islamic decent could be biased against him because of his political stands.
If Trump were black or some other minority and
he had made disparaging remarks about whites,
would a white judge be so mindlessly assumed to be biased against him?
All I can say about that is that it's a good thing I'm not a judge. My huge bias against racists would so overcome me that I'd have to recuse myself. Apparently the judge in this case is ignoring Trump's disgusting remarks and will judge the case according to it merits. It's the way the United States is supposed to work.
What I don't understand is why trump's catering to the lowest common denominator and inciting fear and loathing of "the other" has worked so well for him? I just don't get it. We all came from immigrants in this country except the poor Native Americans who were doing just fine until we came along.
"On Point" had a really good show today about Trump and his motives and why he acts the way he does. Should be available as a pod cast be too long.....
Dennis
QuoteWhat I don't understand is why trump's catering to the lowest common denominator and inciting fear and loathing of "the other" has worked so well for him? I just don't get it. We all came from immigrants in this country except the poor Native Americans who were doing just fine until we came along.
IMHO, its a combination of several reasons:
1) The Republican base (those most inclined to vote in their primaries) are predominated by people who respond well to that kind of message.
Over the past 10-20 years the Republican party has been kind of purging itself of those more moderate elements who used to be in the GOP. These people were popularly known as RINOs (Republican In Name Only) and as they left the party, the overall political extremeness of the party has gone right-ward. Many older moderate Republicans have said that the party left them (moved to the right).
2) In a propagandistic exercise, the continual drilling in to the Fox News listening base of a bunch of made up stuff and intentional degradation of just about everyone who is not Republican has increased their uninformed and highly emotional dislike of non-GOPers.
3) The playing to the racist base elements (along with others like non-racist Christian groups) for 15 or 20 years during elections, but never fulfilling their promises to those people has made them more pissed off. This was probably done (by the "leaders") for several reasons like they promised things that simply could not happen (for constitutional reasons) or for reasons of political expediency (like not wanting to turn off whole demographic groups like hispanics or blacks). In reaction many of the base elements are turning to more extreme characters that they feel might do better by them.
4) Trump has clearly attracted a lot of racists to the GOP who might not normally find people to support. A lot of the GOP has what look like racist policies (such as preventing minorities and other non-GOP aligned people from voting) but they hide their nastiness behind more politically correct words that don't provoke as much of a response. Trump openness about his racism has brought them troglodytes out of the woodwork (or some Trump supporters would say brought new people into the party), which is further driving the party to the right (also know as wrong).
This has worked well for him within the GOP, but probably won't in the wider general population.
Trump may change his approach (if he is able to control himself like a normal politician) or he may not. I am expecting that he won't.
Its my feeling they are in a vicious cycle of going more right and attracting even further more right people to their shrinking group. The more establishment GOPers are afraid of this trend because in the long run it will doom them to insignificance unless they change direction.
*
The "I'm votin for Trump" starter kit.
Other than the "FOX News", that's pretty much how I was raised. Nothing wrong with Lynyrd Skynyrd or the NRA in my opinion. Hell I even drove a truck for a bit..... it might have stuck, but I wasn't 21 and the company couldn't insure me... LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 06, 2016, 04:10:48 PM
"On Point" had a really good show today about Trump and his motives and why he acts the way he does. Should be available as a pod cast be too long.....
Dennis
That program doesn't air here until 9 pm. If I zonk out before they I will listen to the pod cast. Thanks, Dennis.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 06, 2016, 04:10:48 PM
"On Point" had a really good show today about Trump and his motives and why he acts the way he does. Should be available as a pod cast be too long.....
Dennis
That program doesn't air here until 9 pm. If I zonk out before they I will listen to the pod cast. Thanks, Dennis.
9PM...??.....naw, I'll either have my nose in a book, or be zonked out too....
That's when they air it on MY NPR affiliate, not on yours. I'm sure that I will fade out before it airs tonight. I'll listen to the pod cast tomorrow.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 07:19:07 PM
That's when they air it on MY NPR affiliate, not on yours. I'm sure that I will fade out before it airs tonight. I'll listen to the pod cast tomorrow.
....heck, I'm not even gonna check...... wfwf.....
I never listen to that show on the air. I just get the podcasts automatically and toss the ones I'm not interested in.
Congrats Hillary. I heard the news first on the BBC of all places.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 10:02:51 PM
Congrats Hillary. I heard the news first on the BBC of all places.
+1.... |^|
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 06:48:01 AM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 10:02:51 PM
Congrats Hillary. I heard the news first on the BBC of all places.
+1.... |^|
+2 Now Bernie needs to stop what he is doing and try to help unify the party but he won't. huh
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 08:17:34 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 06:48:01 AM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 10:02:51 PM
Congrats Hillary. I heard the news first on the BBC of all places.
+1.... |^|
+2 Now Bernie needs to stop what he is doing and try to help unify the party but he won't. huh
...his true colors are showing now....Hillary could seal the deal, and wrap it up, by choosing him as VP....
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 08:28:24 AM
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 08:17:34 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 06:48:01 AM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 06, 2016, 10:02:51 PM
Congrats Hillary. I heard the news first on the BBC of all places.
+1.... |^|
+2 Now Bernie needs to stop what he is doing and try to help unify the party but he won't. huh
...his true colors are showing now....Hillary could seal the deal, and wrap it up, by choosing him as VP....
That was my thought exactly. If she does that sh will blow the Donald away.
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 08:28:24 AM
....Hillary could seal the deal, and wrap it up, by choosing him as VP....
LOL How early in the morning do you guys start smoking that stuff???
Dennis
It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues.....
https://youtu.be/eyPZFi2b380
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 07, 2016, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 08:28:24 AM
....Hillary could seal the deal, and wrap it up, by choosing him as VP....
LOL How early in the morning do you guys start smoking that stuff???
Dennis
LOL...........we can only hope......and an all female ticket is too much to hope for ....but would be nice..... |^|
What If??
A big earthquake with the strength of 8.1 on the Richter scale hits
the Middle East.
Two million Muslims die and over a million are injured.
Iraq, Iran and Syria are totally ruined and the governments don't
know where to start with providing help to rebuild.
The rest of the world is in shock.
Britain is sending troops to help keep the peace.
Saudi Arabia is sending oil & monetary assistance.
Latin American countries are sending clothing.
New Zealand and Australia are sending sheep, cattle and food crops.
The Asian countries are sending labor to assist in rebuilding the
infrastructure.
Canada is sending medical teams and supplies.
President Donald Trump, not to be outdone, is sending two million
replacement Muslims.
God Bless President Trump.
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 01:19:35 PM
......and an all female ticket is too much to hope for ....but would be nice..... |^|
I could live with Graphic's scenario where Elizabeth Warren gets the nod and then Hillary goes to jail with Warren becoming President. Maybe
she would appoint Bernie at that point LOL
Frankly, I don't see Hillary beating Trump. There are far too many people who don't care for Trump but would be willing to flip the old saying, "better the devil you know (than the devil you don't)", to avoid more of the same ole same ole from Hillary and her kind.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 07, 2016, 01:32:00 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 01:19:35 PM
......and an all female ticket is too much to hope for ....but would be nice..... |^|
I could live with Graphic's scenario where Elizabeth Warren gets the nod and then Hillary goes to jail with Warren becoming President. Maybe she would appoint Bernie at that point LOL
Frankly, I don't see Hillary beating Trump. There are far too many people who don't care for Trump but would be willing to flip the old saying, "better the devil you know (than the devil you don't)", to avoid more of the same ole same ole from Hillary and her kind.....
Dennis
I'm afraid I don't believe that.........the Repub hype has been relentless, but soon the electorate will see the difference between a 'grownup' in the room and a racially unstable bigot spoiled brat.....I cannot see where anyone would want this man dictating foreign policy, or steering the economy....that's down right scary......you think the VietNam draft sent people to Canada....LOL.....it'll be an exodus.....
I could live with Graphic's scenario where Elizabeth Warren gets the nod and then Hillary goes to jail with Warren becoming President. Maybe she would appoint Bernie at that point LOL (http://i%20could%20live%20with%20graphic's%20scenario%20where%20Elizabeth%20Warren%20gets%20the%20nod%20and%20then%20Hillary%20goes%20to%20jail%20with%20Warren%20becoming%20President. %20Maybe%20she%20would%20appoint%20Bernie%20at%20that%20point %20%20LOL)
That was my scenario Dennis. the part about the Supreme Court may be a bit extreme, but the Veep part still seems pretty solid to me:
Quote from: BillT on March 18, 2016, 06:27:23 PM
I've been thinking.
This could happen from the Democratic point of view:
Hillary gets nomination. She's pretty much got it sowed up now, unless something serious comes (rather than what most Demos thing of as the GOP fictions we hear now). This is always a possibility though.
Sander does win. Some of his followers are less inclined to vote for Hillary (bad for politics). One of the traditional ways to heal up these kind of differences (not so much in the case of a blood feud as they have in the GOP) is to Pick someone for Vice President form the aggrieved group.
Sanders would probably not work (for many reasons), but someone who would, would be Elizabeth Warren (one of my favorite politicians). I would have liked to see her run for President, but no!!!
With Hillary & Elizabeth they would have the Girl Team, which I think would has a nice ring to it campaign-wise.
If Hillary gets indicted or something, Warren is the automatic back-up, which would be fine with me.
After the thing or things (meaning candidates) that come out of the current Republican party mess, they could well lose the Presidency and the Senate.
Hillary or Elizabeth appoint Obama to the Supreme Court.
The GOP should not have been such jerks!
It seems very unlikely that Sanders will be selected as Veep to me for a lot of tactical and personal political reasons.
I'm not sure what happens if the Veep becomes president. It used to remain empty till the next election with the potential transfer of power going to the Speaker of the House, but things might have changed after the Nixon/Ford thing.
If it has changed, I would expect an appointment by the Chief Executive would require approval by a legislative branch entity like the Senate.
Unless Trump starts acting more like a responsible person, I have a strong feeling that Hillary (or just about anyone) will tear him up like Goldwater was in 1964.
If he were able to act normal and less like a dictator, he has a chance, but not 50-50.
He seems to think that his personality along got him through the primaries (which it did) and wants to continue that approach in the general election. Too bad for him (and the Republican party).
I don't think that it will be Bernie ether. My first thought was Elizabeth Warren. I hope so, but I doubt it.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 03:52:08 PM
I don't think that it will be Bernie ether. My first thought was Elizabeth Warren. I hope so, but I doubt it.
...oh I doubt Bernie too....but it would heal the campaign's riff a bit if she/he would....Elizabeth's ok....but she's said no before, I thought... huh huh
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 03:55:10 PM
....Elizabeth's ok....but she's said no before, I thought... huh huh
I'm sure she's got good reason..... She would certainly make Hillary a great "Al Gore". Once upon a time, Albert was Tennessee's Golden Boy..... before his entanglement with the Clinton clan.... LOL
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 07, 2016, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 03:55:10 PM
....Elizabeth's ok....but she's said no before, I thought... huh huh
I'm sure she's got good reason..... She would certainly make Hillary a great "Al Gore". Once upon a time, Albert was Tennessee's Golden Boy..... before his entanglement with the Clinton clan.... LOL
Dennis
It wasn't the Clinton's that did him in...........it was the Bush boys counting the 'hanging chads'......
breaking news...The donald said that his comments about the judge had been misconstrued. What he said sounded pretty straight forward to me.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
breaking news...The donald said that his comments about the judge had been misconstrued. What he said sounded pretty straight forward to me.
They sounded pretty straight forward to me too. He is so full of BS. Being that I am from his home town I have heard nothing but crap from this guy most of my life. Now the rest of the country hears it too. huh
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
breaking news...The donald said that his comments about the judge had been misconstrued. What he said sounded pretty straight forward to me.
They sounded pretty straight forward to me too. He is so full of BS. Being that I am from his home town I have heard nothing but crap from this guy most of my life. Now the rest of the country hears it too. huh
Yeah, but the don't believe in in NY.....LOL....
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 04:23:54 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
breaking news...The donald said that his comments about the judge had been misconstrued. What he said sounded pretty straight forward to me.
They sounded pretty straight forward to me too. He is so full of BS. Being that I am from his home town I have heard nothing but crap from this guy most of my life. Now the rest of the country hears it too. huh
Yeah, but the don't believe in in NY.....LOL....
It's funny that while he won the NY GOP primary, the one county that he lost was his own (Manhattan). lol
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 04:23:54 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on June 07, 2016, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
breaking news...The donald said that his comments about the judge had been misconstrued. What he said sounded pretty straight forward to me.
They sounded pretty straight forward to me too. He is so full of BS. Being that I am from his home town I have heard nothing but crap from this guy most of my life. Now the rest of the country hears it too. huh
Yeah, but the don't believe in in NY.....LOL....
It's funny that while he won the NY GOP primary, the one county that he lost was his own (Manhattan). lol
LOL....+1
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 04:04:35 PM
It wasn't the Clinton's that did him in...........it was the Bush boys counting the 'hanging chads'......
He didn't even carry his home state of Tennessee.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 07, 2016, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 07, 2016, 04:04:35 PM
It wasn't the Clinton's that did him in...........it was the Bush boys counting the 'hanging chads'......
He didn't even carry his home state of Tennessee.....
Dennis
...so what???....and he wasn't the first, and won't be the last.........another man's trash, is another man's.........
What did Gore in was being so offended by Bill's sex scandal that he didn't want Clinton campaigning for him. Gore, the stiff one needed the guy with charm working for him. As far as I'm concerned, gore shot himself in the foot. Look at all the war and strife that might had been avoided had he won.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
What did Gore in was being so offended by Bill's sex scandal that he didn't want Clinton campaigning for him. Gore, the stiff one needed the guy with charm working for him. As far as I'm concerned, gore shot himself in the foot. Look at all the war and strife that might had been avoided had he won.
Yup........Gore wasn't the shiniest apple on the tree, that's for sure.....but way brighter than GW....either one...LOL
I have to disagree. Daddy Bush had different views from mine but at least he was smart. Unfortunately he didn't pass the smart gene on.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 07:02:36 PM
I have to disagree. Daddy Bush had different views from mine but at least he was smart. Unfortunately he didn't pass the smart gene on.
...being brighter than Jr doesn't take much....but he was a legit 'Vet'...so I can cut him some slack.. |^|
We shall have to agree to disagree on daddy. I think he was a brain. I just didn't like his ideas. We agree on Jr. dumb as a stump.
Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 12:55:10 PM
....Elizabeth's ok....but she's said no before, I thought... huh huh
I'm sure she's got good reason..... She would certainly make Hillary a great "Al Gore". Once upon a time, Albert was Tennessee's Golden Boy..... before his entanglement with the Clinton clan.... LOL
She did say no before. She may change her mind.
From Hillary's point of view there are many pluses:
1) Strengthen ties to the Bernie wing of the party (they love her)
2) She has already shown that she would be a great bulldog. A bulldog is someone to make attacks on the opponent (Trump). This spares the Presidential candidate from doing the attacking, which can look back at times.
3) In my opinion, she would be a deterrent to any ideas of impreachment (many of the congressional clowns have spoken of this with respect to Obama, it seems to be a quest item for them) because that would put Elizabeth in as President and they would thing she is worse (at least the establishment GOP would).
From Elizabeth's point of view:
1) good: Good for the party and the left in general if she get Hillary elected.
2) bad: loses at lot of power in the Senate if the Dem's get control of the senate
3) being Veep vs chairman of some big Senate committee probably has less power, but the last few Dom veeps have had some decent project or influence with the big guy (or perhaps girl in this case). Depends.
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 06, 2016, 04:10:48 PM
"On Point" had a really good show today about Trump and his motives and why he acts the way he does. Should be available as a pod cast be too long.....
Dennis
I stayed up to listen to it last night but I was so tired it went in one ear and out the other. I listened to the podcast just now. Excellent interview with David Frum was excellent. Alas, even he couldn't make me figure out what people see in the donald. The same type of folks were all about Joe McCarthy back a long time ago. They live among us. Sometimes they come out and they have come out now. I see the same with mosquito's. They don't bother me for years on end but once every 8 years or so they are so bad nobody can go outside. At least they go away as I'm sure these people will as well.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 07, 2016, 08:29:33 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 06, 2016, 04:10:48 PM
"On Point" had a really good show today about Trump and his motives and why he acts the way he does. Should be available as a pod cast be too long.....
Dennis
I stayed up to listen to it last night but I was so tired it went in one ear and out the other. I listened to the podcast just now. Excellent interview with David Frum was excellent. Alas, even he couldn't make me figure out what people see in the donald. The same type of folks were all about Joe McCarthy back a long time ago. They live among us. Sometimes they come out and they have come out now. I see the same with mosquito's. They don't bother me for years on end but once every 8 years or so they are so bad nobody can go outside. At least they go away as I'm sure these people will as well.
Quote from: BillT on June 07, 2016, 08:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on Today at 12:55:10 PM
....Elizabeth's ok....but she's said no before, I thought... huh huh
I'm sure she's got good reason..... She would certainly make Hillary a great "Al Gore". Once upon a time, Albert was Tennessee's Golden Boy..... before his entanglement with the Clinton clan.... LOL
She did say no before. She may change her mind.
From Hillary's point of view there are many pluses:
1) Strengthen ties to the Bernie wing of the party (they love her)
2) She has already shown that she would be a great bulldog. A bulldog is someone to make attacks on the opponent (Trump). This spares the Presidential candidate from doing the attacking, which can look back at times.
3) In my opinion, she would be a deterrent to any ideas of impreachment (many of the congressional clowns have spoken of this with respect to Obama, it seems to be a quest item for them) because that would put Elizabeth in as President and they would thing she is worse (at least the establishment GOP would).
From Elizabeth's point of view:
1) good: Good for the party and the left in general if she get Hillary elected.
2) bad: loses at lot of power in the Senate if the Dem's get control of the senate
3) being Veep vs chairman of some big Senate committee probably has less power, but the last few Dom veeps have had some decent project or influence with the big guy (or perhaps girl in this case). Depends.
Obama had to ask Hillary 3 times before she agreed to be Secretary of State. thoughtful people often need time to think about a big decision before they make the leap. Light you said, the Dems here lately have a good record of having important vice presidents. Warren could have a lot of power as VP because she would have the President's ear.
Did anyone listen to Trump's speech tonight? He read it off a teleprompter! I could tell by the language and I could tell when he added his own few words here and there because they were such simple words and he chose the wrong words a coupe of times. I got a stern talking to from Ryan. He listened to advice once. I can't see it lasting. Nobody can control an ego maniac for long.
I have it on,but muted it as soon as he said 4-5 words fearing i would puke.
I hate him with a PASSION,he's just about everything i hate in people all rolled into one.
I despise racists,religiously intolerant/bigots and ARROGANT people,and Trump is all of that with a silver spoon up his ass.
ANSWER THE QUESTION ALREADY
http://www.businessinsider.com/painful-bob-corker-interview-donald-trump-2016-6?utm_source=referral&utm_medium=aol
http://www.businessinsider.com/footage-things-donald-trump-claimed-did-not-say-hillary-clinton-2016-6
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/donald-trump-narcissism-therapists
https://youtu.be/Sk3sURDS4IA
https://youtu.be/RbmS3tQJ7Os
Dennis
OMG LOL mim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pex6o6f3YE
Yep, he's quite the Bozo. If Hilary can't win the election over him, she certainly won't have a better opportunity or lesser opponent.
Dennis
That was hilarious.
...ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...for Dennis |^|
(https://masterchan.org:8081/media/m/images/570168189.jpg)
The Mistrust of Science
By Atul Gawande , June 10, 2016
The following was delivered as the commencement address at the California Institute of Technology, on Friday, June 10th.
If this place has done its job?and I suspect it has?you?re all scientists now. Sorry, English and history graduates, even you are, too. Science is not a major or a career. It is a commitment to a systematic way of thinking, an allegiance to a way of building knowledge and explaining the universe through testing and factual observation. The thing is, that isn?t a normal way of thinking. It is unnatural and counterintuitive. It has to be learned. Scientific explanation stands in contrast to the wisdom of divinity and experience and common sense. Common sense once told us that the sun moves across the sky and that being out in the cold produced colds. But a scientific mind recognized that these intuitions were only hypotheses. They had to be tested.
When I came to college from my Ohio home town, the most intellectually unnerving thing I discovered was how wrong many of my assumptions were about how the world works?whether the natural or the human-made world. I looked to my professors and fellow-students to supply my replacement ideas. Then I returned home with some of those ideas and told my parents everything they?d got wrong (which they just loved). But, even then, I was just replacing one set of received beliefs for another. It took me a long time to recognize the particular mind-set that scientists have. The great physicist Edwin Hubble, speaking at Caltech?s commencement in 1938, said a scientist has ?a healthy skepticism, suspended judgement, and disciplined imagination??not only about other people?s ideas but also about his or her own. The scientist has an experimental mind, not a litigious one.
As a student, this seemed to me more than a way of thinking. It was a way of being?a weird way of being. You are supposed to have skepticism and imagination, but not too much. You are supposed to suspend judgment, yet exercise it. Ultimately, you hope to observe the world with an open mind, gathering facts and testing your predictions and expectations against them. Then you make up your mind and either affirm or reject the ideas at hand. But you also hope to accept that nothing is ever completely settled, that all knowledge is just probable knowledge. A contradictory piece of evidence can always emerge. Hubble said it best when he said, ?The scientist explains the world by successive approximations.?
The scientific orientation has proved immensely powerful. It has allowed us to nearly double our lifespan during the past century, to increase our global abundance, and to deepen our understanding of the nature of the universe. Yet scientific knowledge is not necessarily trusted. Partly, that?s because it is incomplete. But even where the knowledge provided by science is overwhelming, people often resist it?sometimes outright deny it. Many people continue to believe, for instance, despite massive evidence to the contrary, that childhood vaccines cause autism (they do not); that people are safer owning a gun (they are not); that genetically modified crops are harmful (on balance, they have been beneficial); that climate change is not happening (it is).
Vaccine fears, for example, have persisted despite decades of research showing them to be unfounded. Some twenty-five years ago, a statistical analysis suggested a possible association between autism and thimerosal, a preservative used in vaccines to prevent bacterial contamination. The analysis turned out to be flawed, but fears took hold. Scientists then carried out hundreds of studies, and found no link. Still, fears persisted. Countries removed the preservative but experienced no reduction in autism?yet fears grew. A British study claimed a connection between the onset of autism in eight children and the timing of their vaccinations for measles, mumps, and rubella. That paper was retracted due to findings of fraud: the lead author had falsified and misrepresented the data on the children. Repeated efforts to confirm the findings were unsuccessful. Nonetheless, vaccine rates plunged, leading to outbreaks of measles and mumps that, last year, sickened tens of thousands of children across the U.S., Canada, and Europe, and resulted in deaths.
People are prone to resist scientific claims when they clash with intuitive beliefs. They don?t see measles or mumps around anymore. They do see children with autism. And they see a mom who says, ?My child was perfectly fine until he got a vaccine and became autistic.?
Now, you can tell them that correlation is not causation. You can say that children get a vaccine every two to three months for the first couple years of their life, so the onset of any illness is bound to follow vaccination for many kids. You can say that the science shows no connection. But once an idea has got embedded and become widespread, it becomes very difficult to dig it out of people?s brains?especially when they do not trust scientific authorities. And we are experiencing a significant decline in trust in scientific authorities.
The sociologist Gordon Gauchat studied U.S. survey data from 1974 to 2010 and found some deeply alarming trends. Despite increasing education levels, the public?s trust in the scientific community has been decreasing. This is particularly true among conservatives, even educated conservatives. In 1974, conservatives with college degrees had the highest level of trust in science and the scientific community. Today, they have the lowest.
Today, we have multiple factions putting themselves forward as what Gauchat describes as their own cultural domains, ?generating their own knowledge base that is often in conflict with the cultural authority of the scientific community.? Some are religious groups (challenging evolution, for instance). Some are industry groups (as with climate skepticism). Others tilt more to the left (such as those that reject the medical establishment). As varied as these groups are, they are all alike in one way. They all harbor sacred beliefs that they do not consider open to question.
To defend those beliefs, few dismiss the authority of science. They dismiss the authority of the scientific community. People don?t argue back by claiming divine authority anymore. They argue back by claiming to have the truer scientific authority. It can make matters incredibly confusing. You have to be able to recognize the difference between claims of science and those of pseudoscience.
Science?s defenders have identified five hallmark moves of pseudoscientists. They argue that the scientific consensus emerges from a conspiracy to suppress dissenting views. They produce fake experts, who have views contrary to established knowledge but do not actually have a credible scientific track record. They cherry-pick the data and papers that challenge the dominant view as a means of discrediting an entire field. They deploy false analogies and other logical fallacies. And they set impossible expectations of research: when scientists produce one level of certainty, the pseudoscientists insist they achieve another.
It?s not that some of these approaches never provide valid arguments. Sometimes an analogy is useful, or higher levels of certainty are required. But when you see several or all of these tactics deployed, you know that you?re not dealing with a scientific claim anymore. Pseudoscience is the form of science without the substance.
The challenge of what to do about this?how to defend science as a more valid approach to explaining the world?has actually been addressed by science itself. Scientists have done experiments. In 2011, two Australian researchers compiled many of the findings in ?The Debunking Handbook.? The results are sobering. The evidence is that rebutting bad science doesn?t work; in fact, it commonly backfires. Describing facts that contradict an unscientific belief actually spreads familiarity with the belief and strengthens the conviction of believers. That?s just the way the brain operates; misinformation sticks, in part because it gets incorporated into a person?s mental model of how the world works. Stripping out the misinformation therefore fails, because it threatens to leave a painful gap in that mental model?or no model at all.
So, then, what is a science believer to do? Is the future just an unending battle of warring claims? Not necessarily. Emerging from the findings was also evidence that suggested how you might build trust in science. Rebutting bad science may not be effective, but asserting the true facts of good science is. And including the narrative that explains them is even better. You don?t focus on what?s wrong with the vaccine myths, for instance. Instead, you point out: giving children vaccines has proved far safer than not. How do we know? Because of a massive body of evidence, including the fact that we?ve tried the alternate experiment before. Between 1989 and 1991, vaccination among poor urban children in the U.S. dropped. And the result was fifty-five thousand cases of measles and a hundred and twenty-three deaths.
The other important thing is to expose the bad science tactics that are being used to mislead people. Bad science has a pattern, and helping people recognize the pattern arms them to come to more scientific beliefs themselves. Having a scientific understanding of the world is fundamentally about how you judge which information to trust. It doesn?t mean poring through the evidence on every question yourself. You can?t. Knowledge has become too vast and complex for any one person, scientist or otherwise, to convincingly master more than corners of it.
Few working scientists can give a ground-up explanation of the phenomenon they study; they rely on information and techniques borrowed from other scientists. Knowledge and the virtues of the scientific orientation live far more in the community than the individual. When we talk of a ?scientific community,? we are pointing to something critical: that advanced science is a social enterprise, characterized by an intricate division of cognitive labor. Individual scientists, no less than the quacks, can be famously bull-headed, overly enamored of pet theories, dismissive of new evidence, and heedless of their fallibility. (Hence Max Planck?s observation that science advances one funeral at a time.) But as a community endeavor, it is beautifully self-correcting.
Beautifully organized, however, it is not. Seen up close, the scientific community?with its muddled peer-review process, badly written journal articles, subtly contemptuous letters to the editor, overtly contemptuous subreddit threads, and pompous pronouncements of the academy? looks like a rickety vehicle for getting to truth. Yet the hive mind swarms ever forward. It now advances knowledge in almost every realm of existence?even the humanities, where neuroscience and computerization are shaping understanding of everything from free will to how art and literature have evolved over time.
Today, you become part of the scientific community, arguably the most powerful collective enterprise in human history. In doing so, you also inherit a role in explaining it and helping it reclaim territory of trust at a time when that territory has been shrinking. In my clinic and my work in public health, I regularly encounter people who are deeply skeptical of even the most basic knowledge established by what journalists label ?mainstream? science (as if the other thing is anything like science)?whether it?s facts about physiology, nutrition, disease, medicines, you name it. The doubting is usually among my most, not least, educated patients. Education may expose people to science, but it has a countervailing effect as well, leading people to be more individualistic and ideological.
The mistake, then, is to believe that the educational credentials you get today give you any special authority on truth. What you have gained is far more important: an understanding of what real truth-seeking looks like. It is the effort not of a single person but of a group of people?the bigger the better?pursuing ideas with curiosity, inquisitiveness, openness, and discipline. As scientists, in other words.
Even more than what you think, how you think matters. The stakes for understanding this could not be higher than they are today, because we are not just battling for what it means to be scientists. We are battling for what it means to be citizens.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-mistrust-of-science (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-mistrust-of-science)
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Quote from: Mugwump on June 16, 2016, 06:14:01 AM
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/511ac16927c37c514fe1802afe5a73c3/tumblr_o8s95nXiPK1tjjzxpo1_500.jpg)
If it's not made in Mexico it's made in China. huh
*
I liked the science article Jon.
*
His numbers are way down. A lot of people still like him here in MS but the way Mississippi goes is not always the way the country goes.
The more he opens his mouth the lower his numbers get.
I have wondered this evening if he really does not want to be President? May be he knows he could never handle the job. May be all he wanted to do is attract attention to himself so he could feel like a big deal to himself.
Every time he has opens his mouth here lately he turns off another group of potential voters. Keep it up Mr. Trump.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 17, 2016, 08:09:41 PM
I have wondered this evening if he really does not want to be President? May be he knows he could never handle the job. May be all he wanted to do is attract attention to himself so he could feel like a big deal to himself.
Every time he has opens his mouth here lately he turns off another group of potential voters. Keep it up Mr. Trump.
I agree. I think it was never his intention to get this far. The RNC and the rest of the GOP candidates messed this up. huh
As a "bleeding heart liberal" I can't help but feel sorry for the GOP. It used to be a good party with views different from mine. It has mostly taken over by fearful xenophobic folks who have been fooled by a con man. I hope that the poor party can reinvent itself. If it is to survive it will have no choice after the election.
Here's an opinion piece on the pathetic state of the Republican party and its lack of any moral direction other than "party first".
Like Liz said, its a sad thing.
Sad for them and more importantly, sad for the country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/opinion/campaign-stops/a-week-for-all-time.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/opinion/campaign-stops/a-week-for-all-time.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article)
Good article that I'd have missed of not for you.
The thing I most cannot figure out is why our powerful country of ours has become so fearful of everything. Whatever happened to:
?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.?
― Emma Lazarus
Quote from: LizStreithorst on June 18, 2016, 03:05:39 PM
Good article that I'd have missed of not for you.
The thing I most cannot figure out is why our powerful country of ours has become so fearful of everything. Whatever happened to:
?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.?
― Emma Lazarus
I have wondered too, Liz....but....there's still some of us here....
The right wing guys have made a political issue out of being afraid of everything (including lots of different kinds of people) as they are continually looking for new wedge issues.
Their media have gone crazy on this stuff and as a result,
they are a bunch of pathetic fraidy cats.
One year ago today ? on June 16, 2015 ? Donald Trump officially announced his candidacy to be president of the United States. Today, he is the presumptive Republican nominee.
No one could have predicted the last 12 months, which have been full of offensive declarations, laugh-out-loud quotes, and moments so unbelievable you couldn't make them up if you tried. Luckily, we didn't have to ? the headlines wrote themselves. Here are 95 actual news headlines we published over the last year. These are all real. This is real life.
1. Donald Trump officially announces he's running for president [June 16, 2015]
2. Report: Donald Trump campaign paid actors $50 to come to his presidential announcement [June 18, 2015]
3. Donald Trump: Mitt Romney was a 'frozen jellyfish' in 2012 race [July 9, 2015]
4. Donald Trump and escaped Mexican drug lord El Chapo threaten each other on Twitter [July 13, 2015]
5. Donald Trump on John McCain: 'I like people who weren't captured' [July 18, 2015]
6. Trump believes America is falling to pieces because no one read his book [July 27, 2015]
7. Donald Trump didn't own a computer until 2007, doesn't really do 'the email thing' [July 29, 2015]
8. Donald Trump issues a press release crowning himself the 'unequivocal winner' of the debate [August 7, 2015]
9. Donald Trump said Megyn Kelly had 'blood coming out of her wherever' during debate [August 8, 2015]
10. Donald Trump boasts he has 'one of the great memories of all time' ? and can't remember the last time he apologized [August 19, 2015]
11. Donald Trump says he'd use ISIS to 'scare the pope' into supporting capitalism [August 20, 2015]
12. Donald Trump impersonates Asian negotiators during Iowa rally [August 25, 2015]
13. Trump squeezes in 33 insults about the Bush family in a 35-minute interview [August 27, 2015]
14. Donald Trump wants to play a game of golf with Jeb Bush 'for the presidency' [September 2, 2015]
15. Ben Carson was the first physician to successfully separate conjoined twins. But Donald Trump thinks he's 'overrated as a doctor.' [September 11, 2015]
16. Donald Trump told Jimmy Fallon he doesn't apologize because he's never wrong [September 12, 2015]
17. Trump compares the Bible to 'a great movie' [September 16, 2015]
18. Donald Trump: 'I love the Muslims' [September 20, 2015]
19. Donald Trump boycotts Fox News [September 3, 2015]
20. Donald Trump's 25-year quest to prove that his fingers aren't short [October 7, 2015]
21. Donald Trump says Bowe Bergdahl 'should have been executed' [October 8, 2015]
22. Donald Trump: I don't think getting rid of Saddam Hussein was 'a helpful thing' [October 13, 2015]
23. Donald Trump said his career hasn't been 'easy' because he needed a 'small loan' to get started. It was $1 million from his father. [October 26, 2015]
24. Watch Donald Trump ace Drake's dancing in this 'Hotline Bling' spoof [November 8, 2015]
25. Donald Trump suggests boycotting Starbucks over holiday cup debacle [November 9, 2015]
26. Donald Trump tells a space-loving 10-year-old to forget NASA ? we need to fix potholes [November 11, 2015]
27. Trump likens Carson's 'pathological' temper to child molesting: 'You don't cure these people' [November 12, 2015]
28. Donald Trump demands to know, 'How stupid are the people of Iowa?' [November 13, 2015]
29. Donald Trump is incorrectly claiming Arabs in New Jersey openly cheered the 9/11 attacks [November 22, 2015]
30. Trump on black protester attacked after disrupting his speech: 'Maybe he should've been roughed up' [November 22, 2015]
31. Trump: 'You bet your ass I would' approve waterboarding ? even if it doesn't work [November 24, 2015]
32. Donald Trump calls for a 'complete shutdown' of Muslims entering the U.S. [December 7, 2015]
33. Trump: I will talk to Bill Gates about 'closing that internet up' [December 8, 2015]
34. Donald Trump trashes Time's Person of the Year decision after being named a runner-up [December 9, 2015]
35. White supremacist groups credit surging interest to Donald Trump: 'He's certainly creating a movement' [December 10, 2015]
36. Of course this note from Donald Trump's doctor describes his test results as 'astonishingly excellent' [December 14, 2015]
37. Vladimir Putin weighs in on Donald Trump: 'Talented, without any doubt' [December 17, 2015]
38. Donald Trump says as much as he hates some reporters, 'I'd never kill them' [December 22, 2015]
39. Al Qaeda group uses Donald Trump footage in recruitment video [January 2, 2016]
40. Trump leads first national 2016 poll by 17 points [January 5, 2016]
41. Donald Trump now has a band of children singing his praises at rallies [January 14, 2016]
42. Donald Trump says he could 'shoot somebody' and not lose voters [January 24, 2016]
43. Trump got confused in church and put money in the communion plate [February 1, 2016]
44. Donald Trump: I'll bring back 'a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding' [February 6, 2016]
45. PolitiFact finds that only 1 percent of the things Donald Trump says are entirely true [February 19, 2016]
46. Former KKK grand wizard David Duke is hoping for a President Trump [February 25, 2016]
47. Donald Trump just made funny faces with a water bottle and yelled 'It's Rubio!' [February 26, 2016]
48. Trump reportedly canceled all TV appearances Tuesday because he didn't like the way he looked [March 8, 2016]
49. Donald Trump even decides what Chris Christie eats [March 8, 2016]
50. Donald Trump pushes branded steaks, wine, and water during bizarre victory speech [March 8, 2016]
51. Americans think Donald Trump is as qualified as Taylor Swift to make a Supreme Court appointment [March 10, 2016]
52. You can tell what mood Donald Trump is in based on the color of his hat [March 15, 2016]
53. Donald Trump got asked who he consults with on foreign policy. His answer: 'Myself' [March 16, 2016]
54. A whopping 54 percent of Americans would really like to punch Donald Trump in the face [March 21, 2016]
55. Donald Trump just offered a seemingly random woman a job during his news conference [March 21, 2016]
56. Donald Trump had to clarify that he's ruled out Muslim internment camps [March 27, 2016]
57. Donald Trump claims to Sean Hannity that a pen-wielding ex-Breitbart reporter threatened him first [March 30, 2016]
58. Donald Trump says his 'very rich Muslim' friends think his proposed Muslim ban is a 'great thing' [March 31, 2016]
59. Donald Trump thinks acting presidential would be 'boring as hell' [April 4, 2016]
60. Donald Trump asks Pittsburgh crowd how Joe Paterno ? who died in 2012 ? is doing [April 13, 2016]
61. Trump's favorite Bible passage is 'an eye for an eye,' because of course it is [April 14, 2016]
62. Donald Trump says it was a 'great honor' to vote for himself in New York primary [April 19, 2016]
63. Donald Trump thinks he'd be doing America a favor by chasing out celebrities like Lena Dunham and Rosie O'Donnell [April 26, 2016]
64. Donald Trump claims that if Hillary Clinton was a man 'I don't think she'd get 5 percent of the vote' [April 26, 2016]
65. Donald Trump just kind of accused Ted Cruz's father of helping to assassinate JFK [May 3, 2016]
66. Donald Trump thinks he'll be president for 16 years [May 4, 2016]
67. Trump celebrates Cinco De Mayo with a tweet: 'I love Hispanics!' [May 5, 2016]
68. In first rally as presumptive nominee, Donald Trump mimes coal mining, slams modern hair spray [May 6, 2016]
69. Donald Trump yadda yaddas his past support for the Iraq war: 'Blah, blah, blah, yes, I guess' [May 6, 2016]
70. Donald Trump: 'Everything I say right now?is a suggestion' [May 13, 2016]
71. This New York Times investigation uncovered troubling anecdotes about Trump's private interactions with women [May 14, 2016]
72. Donald Trump says his campaign will be a 'complete waste of time' if he doesn't become president [May 17, 2016]
73. Donald Trump says the most dangerous place he's ever been is Brooklyn [May 18, 2016]
74. Donald Trump accuses Bill Clinton of 'rape' on Fox News [May 19, 2016]
75. Experts say U.S. would need internment camps, police state to carry out Trump's promises [May 19, 2016]
76. Donald Trump pokes fun at Chris Christie's weight at Chris Christie fundraiser [May 20, 2016]
77. Donald Trump mimes shooting the San Bernardino attackers [May 20, 2016]
78. Donald Trump finally donates that $1 million to veterans he said he gave in January [May 25, 2016]
79. The Trump campaign accidentally sent Politico its secret Hillary Clinton attack plan [May 25, 2016]
80. Donald Trump admits he has a penchant for using aliases [May 26, 2016]
81. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC all broadcast Trump's empty podium instead of Clinton's big speech [May 26, 2016]
82. Ben Carson warns of 'tremendous carnage and death' if we don't elect Donald Trump [May 31, 2016]
83. Donald Trump apparently doesn't know what the Brexit is [June 1, 2016]
84. Trump will soon be briefed on top secret information and officials worry he'll blab [June 2, 2016]
85. Trump: Judge has 'absolute conflict' due to 'Mexican heritage' [June 2, 2016]
86. Donald Trump, criticizing the media, points out someone at rally: 'Look at my African-American' [June 4, 2016]
87. Donald Trump says he was 'the one that really broke the glass ceiling on behalf of women' [June 7, 2016]
88. Report: Trump sought investment in partnerships with Gadhafi [June 7, 2016]
89. Conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt likens Donald Trump to 'stage-four cancer' [June 8, 2016]
90. Donald Trump's plan to turn New York red in November? Bumper stickers. [June 9, 2016]
91. Trump expands slogan to 'Make America Great Again for Everyone" [June 11, 2016]
92. Donald Trump literally hugged a flag to show his patriotism [June 12, 2016]
93. Donald Trump defends his criticism of Muslims: 'I was right, I have been right, and I am right' [June 13, 2016]
94. Donald Trump just suggested Obama is a secret Muslim ? again [June 13, 2016]
95. Donald Trump claims 'assimilation' among Muslim Americans is close to 'nonexistent' [June 15, 2016]
Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee to be president of the United States.
http://theweek.com/articles/623349/here-are-95-actual-news-headlines-weve-published-about-donald-trump-real-life
U.N. Warns Trump May Be 7 Months Away From Acquiring Nuclear Weapons
NEW YORK?According to an alarming new global risk report published Tuesday by the United Nations Office for Disarmament Affairs, presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump may be just seven months away from acquiring nuclear weapons. ?A year ago, the threat didn?t seem great enough to warrant serious concern, but at this moment, a nuclear-capable Trump is now a very real and very imminent possibility,? said UNODA high representative Kim Won-soo, adding that the agency?s current projections showed Trump potentially procuring nuclear weapons, as well as advanced ballistic missile technology, as early as January of next year. ?The longer we wait to act, the closer he comes to obtaining a nuclear arsenal. The final red line for preventing him from acquiring this devastating capability comes in early November. If he is not properly dealt with before then, there will be no way to stop him from going nuclear.? While U.N. officials said the international community should prepare for the destabilizing effects of Trump acquiring such weapons, they still held out hope that citizens of his nation might yet rise up against him and topple the extremist before he posed a global existential threat.
http://www.theonion.com/article/un-warns-trump-may-be-7-months-away-acquiring-nucl-53093
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj9M34DzAKo
(http://49.media.tumblr.com/c71c12d74b5d9773ac49bea5f16e1272/tumblr_o3jk9fmUgl1u58bayo1_540.gif)
He just fired his main campaign adviser who said that he suggest to Trump that he "be Trump". We will see is he is able to exercise self restraint now. Personally, I doubt it. He gets off saying outrageous things that draw attention him like a small spoiled child will so. (If all else fails have a tantrum)
A Tale of Two Parties
Paul Krugman
Do you remember what happened when the Berlin Wall fell? Until that moment, nobody realized just how decadent Communism had become. It had tanks, guns, and nukes, but nobody really believed in its ideology anymore; its officials and enforcers were mere careerists, who folded at the first shock.
It seems to me that you need to think about what happened to the G.O.P. this election cycle the same way.
The Republican establishment was easily overthrown because it was already hollow at the core. Donald Trump?s taunts about ?low-energy? Jeb Bush and ?little Marco? Rubio worked because they contained a large element of truth. When Mr. Bush and Mr. Rubio dutifully repeated the usual conservative clich?s, you could see that there was no sense of conviction behind their recitations. All it took was the huffing and puffing of a loud-mouthed showman to blow their houses down.
But as Mr. Trump is finding out, the Democratic establishment is different.
As some political scientists are now acknowledging, America?s two major parties are not at all symmetric. The G.O.P. is, or was until Mr. Trump arrived, a top-down hierarchical structure enforcing a strict, ideologically pure party line. The Democrats, by contrast, are a ?coalition of social groups,? from teachers? unions to Planned Parenthood, seeking specific benefits from government action.
This diversity of interests sometimes reduces Democrats? effectiveness: the old Will Rogers joke, ?I am not a member of any organized political party ? I?m a Democrat? still rings true. But it also means that the Democratic establishment, such as it is, is resilient against Trump-style coups.
But wait: Didn?t Hillary Clinton face her own insurgency in the person of Bernie Sanders, which she barely turned back? Actually, no.
For one thing, it wasn?t all that close. Mrs. Clinton won pledged delegates by almost four times Barack Obama?s margin in 2008; she won the popular vote by double digits.
Nor did she win by burying her rival in cash. In fact, Mr. Sanders outspent her all the way, spending twice on much as she did on ads in New York, which she won by 16 percentage points.
Also, Mrs. Clinton faced immense, bizarre hostility from the news media. Last week Harvard?s Shorenstein Center released a report on media treatment of the candidates during 2015, showing that Mrs. Clinton received by far the most unfavorable coverage. Even when reports focused on issues rather than alleged scandals, 84 percent of her coverage was negative ? twice as high as for Mr. Trump. As the report notes, ?Clinton?s negative coverage can be equated to millions of dollars in attack ads, with her on the receiving end.?
And yet she won, fairly easily, because she had the solid support of key elements of the Democratic coalition, especially nonwhite voters.
But will this resilience persist in the general election? Early indications are that it will. Mr. Trump briefly pulled close in the polls after he clinched the Republican nomination, but he has been plunging ever since. And that?s despite the refusal of Mr. Sanders to concede or endorse the presumptive nominee, with at least some Bernie or Busters still telling pollsters that they won?t back her.
Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is flailing. He?s tried all the tactics that worked for him in the Republican contest ? insults, derisive nicknames, boasts ? but none of it is sticking. Conventional wisdom said that he would be helped by a terrorist attack, but the atrocity in Orlando seems to have hurt him instead: Mrs. Clinton?s response looked presidential, his didn?t.
Worse yet from his point of view, there?s a concerted effort by Democrats ? Mrs. Clinton herself, Elizabeth Warren, President Obama, and more ? to make the great ridiculer look ridiculous (which he is). And it seems to be working.
Why is Mrs. Clinton holding up so well against Mr. Trump, when establishment Republicans were so hapless? Partly it?s because America as a whole, unlike the Republican base, isn?t dominated by angry white men; partly it?s because, as anyone watching the Benghazi hearing realized, Mrs. Clinton herself is a lot tougher than anyone on the other side.
But a big factor, I?d argue, is that the Democratic establishment in general is fairly robust. I?m not saying that its members are angels, which they aren?t. Some, no doubt, are personally corrupt. But the various groups making up the party?s coalition really care about and believe in their positions ? they?re not just saying what the Koch brothers pay them to say.
So pay no attention to anyone claiming that Trumpism reflects either the magical powers of the candidate or some broad, bipartisan upsurge of rage against the establishment. What worked in the primary won?t work in the general election, because only one party?s establishment was already dead inside.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/opinion/a-tale-of-two-parties.html
*
I have a question. I just found a site for Democrats called Occupy Democrats. I liked it but can't help but think it's propaganda since it is totally one sided. It got me wondering where die hard republicans go to get their on line propaganda? I googled around using words other than propaganda but I couldn't find what I was looking for.
Don't worry. I'm like a leopard. I can't change my spots. I want to try to wrap head why they think the way they think.
Try googling "tea party", "red state", "illegal immigrant", "small government", "climate change wrong" some other slogan they use.
It'll probably lead you somewhere.
(https://masterchan.org:8081/media/m/images/121906530.gif)
Liz if you want to go there here are 3 Right wing news, The conservative Republic and conservative post. Now be very very careful b4 you go there you may hurt your self. I know I did when I came across occupy Democrats. My computer all most explooded
Thanks, JR. I know that it will be hard for me but I'd like to try. I'll have to get well fortified with beer before I take on the challenge.
http://www.newser.com/story/226994/heartbreaking-image-of-girl-standing-on-toilet-goes-viral.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=aol&utm_campaign=rss_curated
Cash-Strapped Trump Campaign Auctions Chris Christie on eBay
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Borowitz-NewCrisisforTrump-1200.jpg)
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?In what some are calling a sign of its desperation to raise cash, the Presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump is auctioning off New Jersey Governor Chris Christie on the popular e-commerce site eBay, campaign officials have confirmed.
Christie, who is described on the site as being in lightly used but good condition, is believed to be the first sitting governor ever to be auctioned on the Internet.
According to the description of Christie on eBay, the governor can perform a full range of escort duties and has ?extensive experience in chauffeuring, door-opening, umbrella-holding, reflexive clapping, and soothing end-of-the-day foot massages.?
Speaking at Trump Tower, in Manhattan, the presumptive Republican nominee said that he was still considering financing his general-election campaign himself, but he added, ?First I wanted to see what I could get for Chris.?
When asked about his latest service to the Trump campaign, Christie told a reporter, ?Get away from me. Just get away or I?ll hurt you.?
No bids,so they had to relist him.
I see that the GOP NRA whores are never going to get it right,time to get rid of ALL of those POS.
Quote from: ghonk on June 23, 2016, 07:14:49 AM
I see that the GOP NRA whores are never going to get it right,time to get rid of ALL of those POS.
Agreed. When I heard this on NPR this morning it reminded me of the political BS that goes on in 3rd World Countries.....
Dennis
British Lose Right to Claim That Americans Are Dumber
By Andy Borowitz , 10:37 A.M.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Borowitz-BritishLoseRighttoClaimThatAmericansAreDumber-1200.jpg)
LONDON (The Borowitz Report)?Across the United Kingdom on Friday, Britons mourned their long-cherished right to claim that Americans were significantly dumber than they are.
Luxuriating in the superiority of their intellect over Americans? has long been a favorite pastime in Britain, surpassing in popularity such games as cricket, darts, and snooker.
But, according to Alistair Dorrinson, a pub owner in North London, British voters have done irreparable damage to the ?most enjoyable sport this nation has ever known: namely, treating Americans like idiots.?
?When our countrymen cast their votes yesterday, they didn?t realize they were destroying the most precious leisure activity this nation has ever known,? he said. ?Wankers.?
In the face of this startling display of national idiocy, Dorrinson still mustered some of the resilience for which the British people are known. ?This is a dark day,? he said. ?But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.?
I don't believe that we will become even dumber that the Brits come November. I will be happy to concede the prize for dumbest to them.
*
*
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-baffles-bizarre-appearance-scotland
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13434846_1168531609906558_2667656014910306316_n.jpg?oh=0d1548a8c5d00d2b0eaa101699126916&oe=57F2E885)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjI1S3ynME7hrXjy/giphy.gif)
Elizabeth Warren rocks! I believe that she will choose to stay in the senate but she has what Clinton lacks. She can connect with the people. Hillary is a total wonk. It't hard for people to connect with her because she is not inspiring,
Borowitz Report
Trump?s Bid to Become Born-Again Fails as Jesus Turns Down Friend Request
By Andy Borowitz , 11:21 A.M.
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Borowitz-TrumpRejection-1200.jpg)
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?The billionaire Donald J. Trump?s bid to become a born-again Christian failed over the weekend after Jesus Christ turned down his friend request, campaign officials have acknowledged.
Jesus, who has not generally been active on Facebook, made a rare appearance on the social network on Monday to announce His decision to ignore the presumptive Republican nominee?s request for a personal relationship with Him.
In a brief post, Jesus offered the following explanation: ?Just everything.?
The turndown from Jesus Christ, the inspiration behind one of the world?s most prominent religions, caps what has been a tough month for the Trump campaign.
Privately, campaign staffers fretted that the candidate would pen a disparaging tweet about Jesus, which might alienate evangelical voters in key battleground states.
But, at a rally in Pennsylvania, Trump made no reference to Jesus, and instead touted endorsements he had received from Gary Busey, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Joe (the Plumber) Wurzelbacher.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/13501715_10153424695320904_732020075494282623_n.jpg?oh=71cff25f0958d571d602c53d42f9442f&oe=57F836AE)
Dennis
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13325470_1215080225169659_310618135209703845_n.jpg?oh=94da2df01f59d5eef1bc02ae0a35af94&oe=57EDB467)
Dennis
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13339570_1214632438547771_8299203741881883_n.jpg?oh=fd7e7d4b49581830ee00f0e30ce02925&oe=57FDB2EA)
Dennis
Since neither party has supplied me with a suitable candidate, I've been looking at this fellow.....
https://youtu.be/L6in32I0l08
http://www.isidewith.com (http://www.isidewith.com)
Dennis
I've seen his name popping up too....
Almost had coffee coming out my nose when I got this result.....
Dennis
https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2012/02/problem-of-gary-johnsons-libertarian-affiliation/ (https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2012/02/problem-of-gary-johnsons-libertarian-affiliation/)
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/05/28/ouch-libertarian-frontrunner-gary-johnson-gets-booed-at-partys-convention-n2170139 (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/05/28/ouch-libertarian-frontrunner-gary-johnson-gets-booed-at-partys-convention-n2170139)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm (http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/07/presidential-hopeful-gary-johnson-is-no-libertarian-hes-a-pro-pot-trump (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/07/presidential-hopeful-gary-johnson-is-no-libertarian-hes-a-pro-pot-trump)
.....
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 28, 2016, 02:24:12 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13339570_1214632438547771_8299203741881883_n.jpg?oh=fd7e7d4b49581830ee00f0e30ce02925&oe=57FDB2EA)
Dennis
Keeping the gun nuts in check.
Quote from: ghonk on June 28, 2016, 04:28:41 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 28, 2016, 02:24:12 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13339570_1214632438547771_8299203741881883_n.jpg?oh=fd7e7d4b49581830ee00f0e30ce02925&oe=57FDB2EA)
Dennis
Keeping the gun nuts in check.
These guys would be responsible gun owners (or perhaps just carriers).
Quote from: BallAquatics on June 28, 2016, 02:58:25 PM
Almost had coffee coming out my nose when I got this result.....
Dennis
Its a policies vs. personalities issue.
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/47517fd9e71f4e07f494fe5da43f2ac0/tumblr_o9h3ln2qKO1qzft56o1_640.jpg)
EU referendum local results 2016 vs. Mad cow disease outbreak areas 1992
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
NOVEMBER 9th,2016
...that artist is pretty sicko.....
....the hate on both sides is sad.....it's bizarre to see this whole election process going on.....
Quote from: Mugwump on June 29, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
NOVEMBER 9th,2016
...that artist is pretty sicko.....
....the hate on both sides is sad.....it's bizarre to see this whole election process going on.....
Yup...and I thought this election campaigning couldn't get any worse after the last one! huh :-[ :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Mugwump on June 29, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
NOVEMBER 9th,2016
...that artist is pretty sicko.....
....the hate on both sides is sad.....it's bizarre to see this whole election process going on.....
True both sides do it,like posting pics of them being tortured in benghazi , and aborted fetuses to make their point,that's what i consider sick.
I'm going to delete the DRAWING,but i sure wouldn't mind if he blew his own brains out,and if someone wants to help him out i wouldn't lose any sleep over it either.
Quote from: Ron Sower on June 29, 2016, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 29, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
NOVEMBER 9th,2016
...that artist is pretty sicko.....
....the hate on both sides is sad.....it's bizarre to see this whole election process going on.....
Yup...and I thought this election campaigning couldn't get any worse after the last one! huh :-[ :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
And that hate for Obama has never stopped,most of it for the simple reason that one of his parents was black.
The good news is many of Drumpf's supporters will likely crawl back in their caves after the election,hopefully for another 40 years,like they did when Wallace croaked.
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: Ron Sower on June 29, 2016, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 29, 2016, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: ghonk on June 29, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
NOVEMBER 9th,2016
...that artist is pretty sicko.....
....the hate on both sides is sad.....it's bizarre to see this whole election process going on.....
Yup...and I thought this election campaigning couldn't get any worse after the last one! huh :-[ :( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
And that hate for Obama has never stopped,most of it for the simple reason that one of his parents was black.
The good news is many of Drumpf's supporters will likely crawl back in their caves after the election,hopefully for another 40 years,like they did when Wallace croaked.
I agree Greg....there is a lot of 'closet' bigotry in our population, plus a lot of sickos willing to get a kick out of just fanning the flames of hatred....I liked it better when they were silent and held their cards close to their chests.....heck, we knew who they are anyway....
Republican Donald Trump needs help paying for his US presidential campaign - and he's been asking foreign politicians to cough up.
His efforts appear to be generating more anger than interest, however - and even if he did find a receptive audience overseas, any financial assistance he receives would be a violation of US law. Even the act of asking could get the Trump camp a rebuke from the US government.
Members of parliament in the UK, Iceland, Canada and Australia have reported that they are being inundated on their official government emails accounts with fund-raising pleas from the Trump campaign - some from the candidate himself and others from his sons.
One pitch praised British voters for voting to leave the European Union, heralding that they had "taken their country back" - a line Mr Trump himself used while talking to the press at one of his golf courses in Scotland.
On Tuesday Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale took to the floor of the House of Commons to complain about what he called "intemperate spam" from the Republican standard-bearer.
SNP MP Natalie McGarry tweeted a copy of an email signed by one of Donald Trump's sons and offered her own, sharper reply.
"Given his rhetoric on migrants, refugees and immigration, it seems quite extraordinary that he would be asking foreign nationals for money; especially people who view his dangerous divisiveness with horror," she wrote.
At least three Icelandic politicians have received emails condemning "crooked" Hillary Clinton and pledging to match any contributions to his campaign, according to Iceland Monitor.
Australian MP Tim Watts tweets that he has received at least four emails since Friday.
US law prohibits a political campaign from "knowingly" soliciting or accepting donations from foreign nationals. On Wednesday two US public interest groups announced they were filing a formal complaint with the Federal Elections Commission - which oversees US election law.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36599724 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36599724)
Quote from: Mugwump on July 01, 2016, 06:58:36 AM
Republican Donald Trump needs help paying for his US presidential campaign - and he's been asking foreign politicians to cough up.
His efforts appear to be generating more anger than interest, however - and even if he did find a receptive audience overseas, any financial assistance he receives would be a violation of US law. Even the act of asking could get the Trump camp a rebuke from the US government.
Members of parliament in the UK, Iceland, Canada and Australia have reported that they are being inundated on their official government emails accounts with fund-raising pleas from the Trump campaign - some from the candidate himself and others from his sons.
One pitch praised British voters for voting to leave the European Union, heralding that they had "taken their country back" - a line Mr Trump himself used while talking to the press at one of his golf courses in Scotland.
On Tuesday Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale took to the floor of the House of Commons to complain about what he called "intemperate spam" from the Republican standard-bearer.
SNP MP Natalie McGarry tweeted a copy of an email signed by one of Donald Trump's sons and offered her own, sharper reply.
"Given his rhetoric on migrants, refugees and immigration, it seems quite extraordinary that he would be asking foreign nationals for money; especially people who view his dangerous divisiveness with horror," she wrote.
At least three Icelandic politicians have received emails condemning "crooked" Hillary Clinton and pledging to match any contributions to his campaign, according to Iceland Monitor.
Australian MP Tim Watts tweets that he has received at least four emails since Friday.
US law prohibits a political campaign from "knowingly" soliciting or accepting donations from foreign nationals. On Wednesday two US public interest groups announced they were filing a formal complaint with the Federal Elections Commission - which oversees US election law.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36599724 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36599724)
lol
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/9695c8c2971f2be0bc75a7ff2fec160a/tumblr_o9ndzx9efj1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13508877_1172947906131595_2202681611220019376_n.jpg?oh=f91d6a1831691f67c4d2abf51094dd41&oe=57ED0FED)
Dennis
I know how you feel, Dennis. I agree with you. But let them talk of shutting down military base and the locals go crazy because the base adds to their economy and jobs will be lost.
After WWII we got too big for our britches and decided that every once in a while we should go kick some ass for no logical reason. It has always done way much harm than good.
I will still vote for Hillary.
At some time, those in favor of military spending (companies and their lackeys) deciding to spread out bases and production projects to many different places in many different states to distribute the political support for military spending. This has been successful. Congress now approves spending and projects in excess of what the military want.
NASA has to some extent pursued a similar approach. However, not as successfully. Perhaps because they have less money to spread around. Too bad IMHO.
Borowitz Report
Congressional Republicans Vote to Abolish F.B.I.
By Andy Borowitz , July 5, 2016
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/%E2%80%8BBorowitz-CongressionalRepublicansVotetoAbolishFBI-1200.jpg)
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?In a stunning rebuke to one of the nation?s oldest and most established law-enforcement agencies, House Republicans voted unanimously on Tuesday to abolish the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Unlike most House measures, which come up for a vote only after months or even years of sluggish effort, the bill to eliminate the F.B.I. was drafted in a matter of minutes on Tuesday morning, Republican staffers confirmed.
House Speaker Paul Ryan offered no specific reason for the Republicans? sudden frenzy of activity to abolish the F.B.I., but said that the Bureau represented ?big government at its worst.?
?This is an agency that, when given even the simplest task to do, can?t manage to do it right,? he said.
Representative Trey Gowdy of South Carolina bemoaned the F.B.I.?s ?bloated and wasteful? annual budget of eight billion dollars, which he said could easily pay for an additional eleven hundred Benghazi investigations.
when I read FBI, my thoughts went to agent Gibbs from NCIS immediantly,lol
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13466407_1056348154446463_111799701764429002_n.jpg?oh=825e378de571ff6abea897e1673f9c52&oe=57F13D7F)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 08, 2016, 09:07:45 AM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13466407_1056348154446463_111799701764429002_n.jpg?oh=825e378de571ff6abea897e1673f9c52&oe=57F13D7F)
Dennis
I know....it's a real strange election...I saw somewhere that Trump eluded to not even serving in office, should he win....HUH??
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/13599975_10157018699065462_9075558116967841500_n.jpg?oh=3abbe47b621acd3ba6645dafebc0474a&oe=57EC9960)
Dennis
..says it all....
https://www.facebook.com/PoliticallyIncorrectpage/videos/1015494638501654/ (https://www.facebook.com/PoliticallyIncorrectpage/videos/1015494638501654/)
Ben Sasse: Nebraska Senator to Skip GOP Convention to 'Watch Some Dumpster Fires,' Spokesman Says
Sasse plans to "take his kids to watch some dumpster fires across the state
, all of which enjoy more popularity than the current front runners,"
*
Donald Trump would be the only national leader in the world to reject climate science
Helena Horton 13 July 2016
Donald Trump, if he becomes president, will be the only national leader in the world to reject climate science.
This was highlighted by a new Sierra Club report which warned of the isolation of the US when it comes to climate change.
His attitude towards climate science puts him behind even with Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, Zimbabwe?s Robert Mugabe and Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea.
The report found universal acceptance for climate science among all 195 countries recognized by the US state department.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/donald-trump-would-be-the-only-national-leader-in-the-world-to-r/
Bernie Sanders supporters aren't thrilled with how the primary election came out ? and they plan on making quite the stink about it!
According to reports, the Vermont Senator's convention delegates are holding a "fart-in" at the upcoming Democratic National Convention to protest the nomination of Hillary Clinton!
Despite Sanders officially endorsing Clinton on Tuesday, supporters plan on eating as many beans as they can before entering the convention hall and ripping out an odorous message to the Democratic Party!
They need to open their eyes. Would they rather have the donald than Hillar?.
Philadelphia International Airport: Facility's Workers Vote to Strike During Democratic National Convention
Workers voted 461-5 Tuesday to strike during the convention taking place July 25-28. They are seeking better scheduling and the ability to unionize, among others, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported.
I see nothing but trouble brewing here.......wow...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CLEVELAND ? Cleveland officials said Wednesday that they will uphold the right of protesters at the Republican National Convention to carry firearms even as they expressed opposition to the state?s open carry laws.
Speaking to reporters in advance of the Republican National Convention next week, both Cleveland Mayor Frank G. Jackson and police Chief Calvin Williams they were bound by the state?s laws allowing people to carry guns even if they disagreed with them.
?Our intent is to follow the law. And if the law says you can have open carry, that?s what it says. Whether I agree with it or not is another issue,? said Mayor Jackson in a press conference.
That was a sentiment also echoed by the city?s police chief. Asked if he would prefer that people be prevented from carrying weapons at the Republican National convention, Chief Williams said, ?Of course.?
?It?s the law in this state. As police chief, I?m bound to uphold the law in this state,? he added.
Just days after five Dallas police officers were shot dead by a gunman with a high-powered rifle at a protest against the police killings of two black men earlier last week, several groups of demonstrators have suggested that they may bring weapons to the protests at or around the convention.
The group Oath Keepers said this week that they would appear at the RNC armed, while the chairman of the New Black Panther Party also said that his group may carry weapons at an event designed to protest police brutality in advance of the RNC. Event organizers of the police brutality event later said that no armed demonstrators were expected.
Cleveland has banned a wide array of items inside a broad zone in downtown Cleveland around the convention site, including water guns, toy guns, knives, aerosol cans, rope, tennis balls and others. But because of Ohio?s open carry laws, protesters who legally own a firearm will be allowed to carry it near the convention center.
The Secret Service bans guns within a much smaller security perimeter around the Quicken Loans Arena where the event is being held. That area is only open to credentialed attendees of the convention.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/13/ahead-of-gop-convention-cleveland-officials-affirm-protesters-may-carry-guns/#livefyre-comment
Quote from: Mugwump on July 14, 2016, 08:55:58 AM
I see nothing but trouble brewing here.......wow...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CLEVELAND ? Cleveland officials said Wednesday that they will uphold the right of protesters at the Republican National Convention to carry firearms even as they expressed opposition to the state?s open carry laws.
Speaking to reporters in advance of the Republican National Convention next week, both Cleveland Mayor Frank G. Jackson and police Chief Calvin Williams they were bound by the state?s laws allowing people to carry guns even if they disagreed with them.
?Our intent is to follow the law. And if the law says you can have open carry, that?s what it says. Whether I agree with it or not is another issue,? said Mayor Jackson in a press conference.
That was a sentiment also echoed by the city?s police chief. Asked if he would prefer that people be prevented from carrying weapons at the Republican National convention, Chief Williams said, ?Of course.?
?It?s the law in this state. As police chief, I?m bound to uphold the law in this state,? he added.
Just days after five Dallas police officers were shot dead by a gunman with a high-powered rifle at a protest against the police killings of two black men earlier last week, several groups of demonstrators have suggested that they may bring weapons to the protests at or around the convention.
The group Oath Keepers said this week that they would appear at the RNC armed, while the chairman of the New Black Panther Party also said that his group may carry weapons at an event designed to protest police brutality in advance of the RNC. Event organizers of the police brutality event later said that no armed demonstrators were expected.
Cleveland has banned a wide array of items inside a broad zone in downtown Cleveland around the convention site, including water guns, toy guns, knives, aerosol cans, rope, tennis balls and others. But because of Ohio?s open carry laws, protesters who legally own a firearm will be allowed to carry it near the convention center.
The Secret Service bans guns within a much smaller security perimeter around the Quicken Loans Arena where the event is being held. That area is only open to credentialed attendees of the convention.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/13/ahead-of-gop-convention-cleveland-officials-affirm-protesters-may-carry-guns/#livefyre-comment
WTF. :o :o :o :o :o
That's what you get when you are still pretending it's the wild west.
...well the GOP convention begins.....hold onto your hats folks.............here we go....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 18, 2016, 01:18:50 PM
...well the GOP convention begins.....hold onto your hats folks.............here we go....
I refuse to watch any of it. wfwf wfwf wfwf
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 18, 2016, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 18, 2016, 01:18:50 PM
...well the GOP convention begins.....hold onto your hats folks.............here we go....
I refuse to watch any of it. wfwf wfwf wfwf
...reports are that it's already getting pretty rowdy...... huh....even Cruz supporters are threatening to hold things up.....
(http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/article30955970.ece/BINARY/w940/banned-items-at-US-conventionV3.jpg)
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/welcome-to-ohio-sign-state-border-55398744.jpg)
Dennis
I'm listening to it out of a sense of duty.
It's on again with some guy from from a neighboring state speaking. I will do my best to listen for another half hour. It will be a hard slog. All the fear mongering and veiled raciest rhetoric makes me crazy. Now there's a guy from TX speaking. He hasn't said anything that makes me want to move to Canada yet.
I know a lot of people who like drumph. I like them! I just don't understand their way of thinking. I am trying.
I lasted an hour. Time to turn the radio off and hit the sack. I only heard one decent speech. It was from a lady whose son was killed in Benghazi.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13707797_919418688185747_6513147188298436438_n.jpg?oh=b4e539ee9ab1a4dac61757a65724aa9b&oe=582EFDC0)
Quote from: Mugwump on July 19, 2016, 08:18:46 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13707797_919418688185747_6513147188298436438_n.jpg?oh=b4e539ee9ab1a4dac61757a65724aa9b&oe=582EFDC0)
So funny. Part of it was almost word for word from Michelle's speech. huh
*
http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/trump-pence-interview-with-60-minutes/
The convention is on the radio again. I need a night off from the blather. I can only take so much...
Watch too much of that stuff and you could get brain damage. ???
I am listening to music. I turned off NPR down in the fish room, too. I couldn't' even subject the fish to it.
I will try again tomorrow. I have friends and know people I have deep respect for who are dyed in the wool republicans. I'm a dyed in the wool bleeding heart pinko liberal. I would like to better understand the views of the other side. I have a feeling that listening to the RNC is not the best way to understand it. I will have to look for another way.
Hi everyone I know most of you don't agree with me but that's ok. I'm having more fun here than I have in a long time. I wish our gov would have suspended open carry bet you thought you would never hear that from me. He needs to get his candy azz here. I have lost a lot of respect for him. The ppl are great here. A lot of great speakers here. Talk at you all later
You're at the convention?
Have fun. Should be very interesting.
Don't get shot.
I actually feel sorry for Melania,how in the hell could you live in the same house with that disgusting POS,but i guess 100's of millions or billions must ease the pain somewhat.
I feel bad for her too. This almost looks like a kind of sabotage. A speechwriter, or ghostwriter, or Melania herself would know better than to leave Michelle's words that intact.
Is it even possible to plagiarize such clich?d phrases? :P
Quote from: wallace on July 20, 2016, 01:24:20 PM
I feel bad for her too. This almost looks like a kind of sabotage. A speechwriter, or ghostwriter, or Melania herself would know better than to leave Michelle's words that intact.
Is it even possible to plagiarize such clich?d phrases? :P
It was a stupid mistake period.....I'm afraid that she just did what the campaign team wanted....I don't think she wrote, but just like a puppet, read it off the teleprompter.....
Remember that Trump, and team, thrive on doing the absurd tho....so was it planned?
Looks like some loyal 'Troompite' took the fall for her....
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13710026_1092661894106061_8323298730842697753_n.jpg?oh=a23b815ad8ca0da5cfa35487395fba0b&oe=57EE7876)
Quote from: Mugwump on July 20, 2016, 02:05:35 PM
Looks like some loyal 'Troompite' took the fall for her....
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13710026_1092661894106061_8323298730842697753_n.jpg?oh=a23b815ad8ca0da5cfa35487395fba0b&oe=57EE7876)
What a bunch of crap. Besides Melania even claimed on one show that she wrote the speech herself. She's full of crap too.
I just think it funny that they are arguing about making what is basically a
statement of personal ethics from the HATED and REVILED first lady Obama and claiming its theirs.
While continuing to hate all things Obama because they are so ethically bad.
It works for their followers, but it will probably wear thin with a more general population.
It was more interesting tonight. Ted Cruz made one hell of a rousing speech. I would never vote for him either but It was the first rousing speech I've heard. He did not endorse drumph. Drumph is set to speak next. His son in introducing him now. I would like to sleep but I need to stay up and listen to what he has to say for as long as I can stand it.
Oh heck. Newt is speaking next. I need to hit the sack.
Today was a rough one. Missed the shuttle bus had to walk to the convention hall. There is some crazy folks out there. Both sides are very passionate. One old boy spit on my grandson he got knocked on his azz. Told Matt not to wear his Trump Shirt. The police are on top of it. They are doing a outstanding job. I saw police from at least 15 different states. One more day of this madness and I will be back home. Liz I like Newt he had a great speech. I wish he had been the VP pick. Talk at you all later.
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/357c42a80ce2ad55b0ff7d78d5ecaac5/tumblr_oakpodp14E1tvbnqlo1_640.jpg)
Quote from: JR on July 20, 2016, 10:54:32 PM
Today was a rough one. Missed the shuttle bus had to walk to the convention hall. There is some crazy folks out there. Both sides are very passionate. One old boy spit on my grandson he got knocked on his azz. Told Matt not to wear his Trump Shirt. The police are on top of it. They are doing a outstanding job. I saw police from at least 15 different states. One more day of this madness and I will be back home. Liz I like Newt he had a great speech. I wish he had been the VP pick. Talk at you all later.
JR, I left the radio on went to bed and know that Newt did make a good speech. I was falling into the arms of Morpheus so I couldn't remember a thing he said when I woke up. I heard parts of Mike Spence's too. I heard some when I was kinda sleeping and I heard excerpts the next morning. It was an excellent speech. The crowd got pissed off at the end when he told them to vote their conscionus.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 21, 2016, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: JR on July 20, 2016, 10:54:32 PM
Today was a rough one. Missed the shuttle bus had to walk to the convention hall. There is some crazy folks out there. Both sides are very passionate. One old boy spit on my grandson he got knocked on his azz. Told Matt not to wear his Trump Shirt. The police are on top of it. They are doing a outstanding job. I saw police from at least 15 different states. One more day of this madness and I will be back home. Liz I like Newt he had a great speech. I wish he had been the VP pick. Talk at you all later.
JR, I left the radio on went to bed and know that Newt did make a good speech. I was falling into the arms of Morpheus so I couldn't remember a thing he said when I woke up. I heard parts of Mike Spence's too. I heard some when I was kinda sleeping and I heard excerpts the next morning. It was an excellent speech. The crowd got pissed off at the end when he told them to vote their conscionus.
...that was Cruz....
(https://andelino.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/rip-republican-party-01.jpg?w=456&h=305)
Dennis
Quote from: Mugwump on July 21, 2016, 04:08:28 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 21, 2016, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: JR on July 20, 2016, 10:54:32 PM
Today was a rough one. Missed the shuttle bus had to walk to the convention hall. There is some crazy folks out there. Both sides are very passionate. One old boy spit on my grandson he got knocked on his azz. Told Matt not to wear his Trump Shirt. The police are on top of it. They are doing a outstanding job. I saw police from at least 15 different states. One more day of this madness and I will be back home. Liz I like Newt he had a great speech. I wish he had been the VP pick. Talk at you all later.
JR, I left the radio on went to bed and know that Newt did make a good speech. I was falling into the arms of Morpheus so I couldn't remember a thing he said when I woke up. I heard parts of Mike Spence's too. I heard some when I was kinda sleeping and I heard excerpts the next morning. It was an excellent speech. The crowd got pissed off at the end when he told them to vote their conscionus.
...that was Cruz....
No...Cruz got booed off the stage for saying it but Spence said it too and was booed. I'm quite sure I'm right but I could be wrong. JR was there. He will confirm or deny.
Tonight we get the donald. I don't expect he'll speak until 10 pm. I will miss it. I will be asleep. It's for the best, I suppose. I have not yet heard a speech form him that didn't make me sick. IMO he's a simpleton who has the gift of being able to manipulate people. He has cheated students in his "Trump University" which was never a university but a scam to take money from people trying to get a head and invested their hard earned to get nothing in return Even the teachers who worked for him said as much. I'd like to know why that is no longer in the news? He has something like 3,000 law suits against him. He does not live up to his word. He has filed bankruptcy to avoid having to pay people he owes money to.
This man who is so thin skinned and so egocentric to be offended about being called a short fingered vulgarian to be offended by it...This man who was so offended by the president's jabs and the press dinner where jabs are a given that he refused his invitation to this one...This man who only caters to people's fears thinks that he has a chance to win the presidency? It ain't gonna happen.
I thought when he first decided to run that he would be the greatest gift of an opponent that Hillary could ever have. Just wait until November and you will see that I am correct.
I knew Cruz said it, and wouldn't endorse Heir Donald.....but didn't hear Pence thank heavens
...Cruz does have nuts tho........he stood up for what he believes....I'll give him that... |^|
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 21, 2016, 04:46:31 PM
I thought when he first decided to run that he would be the greatest gift of an opponent that Hillary could ever have. Just wait until November and you will see that I am correct.
Not sure I agree, but I can see your logic.....
Better the devil you know...
Dennis
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/96c06b293a965ecb3783acf6242cc873/tumblr_n4emt00cKk1tnk01yo1_500.gif)
http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/2016/07/21/486862069?showDate=2016-07-21
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 21, 2016, 05:27:44 PM
http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/2016/07/21/486862069?showDate=2016-07-21
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/danzcolorplus7036.jpg)
OMG, it's on the radio again and some crazy man is speaking. I don't think I'll last as long tonight as I lasted last night.
(http://tedmccagg.typepad.com/.a/6a01053651288d970c01b8d206f18f970c-800wi)
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/10580266_1100002933371094_8676555756777670063_n.jpg?oh=0e966544ffc2de9d90dc109aa1130a5b&oe=57EEC42D)
Dennis
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/a7f57ab7ea14de5e7378a7acb2641b81/tumblr_oaksvjl3xb1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10387579_10154136688499255_2363743427567508546_n.jpg?oh=795667137b65c1a65f8ef222cef64efb&oe=582A623D)
Daddy Drumpf is it okay if i speak,only with permission Mikey.
Now shut up so i can hear myself talk.
Quote from: ghonk on July 23, 2016, 07:43:17 AM
Daddy Drumpf is it okay if i speak,only with permission Mikey.
Now shut up so i can hear myself talk.
I like how he is already "jokingly" pinning a loss on Pence. I don't think he was kidding. He will use Pence as his fall guy. Also, Pence looks very uncomfortable to me in that role. huh
I instinctively mute the TV or turn the channel every time before Trump can say more then 2-3 words,it's not only what he says but the way he says it too,a truly sickening man.
Like it or not, this is why Trump stands a very good chance of being the next President.....
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/ (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/)
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 23, 2016, 05:13:16 PM
Like it or not, this is why Trump stands a very good chance of being the next President.....
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/ (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/)
Dennis
Ahem....from the "American Conservative"....and Dreher of all people?.....sheesh of course he'll spew such terrible rhetoric....good grief....come on...LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....
Laugh all you want. I hear much the same thing from folks all the time. I think way too many people just see the same ole big time politics when they look at Hillary.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 23, 2016, 06:04:47 PM
Laugh all you want. I hear much the same thing from folks all the time. I think way too many people just see the same ole big time politics when they look at Hillary.
Dennis
I'm not biting.... 8)
LOL I'm not trying to bait you. LOL
It will probably be the first time we have a President who got elected not on their own merit, but because the voters disliked the other candidate more than the one they voted for. That's just sad any way you look at it.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 23, 2016, 06:39:17 PM
LOL I'm not trying to bait you. LOL
It will probably be the first time we have a President who got elected not on their own merit, but because the voters disliked the other candidate more than the one they voted for. That's just sad any way you look at it.
Dennis
yes it, ...and to think about how many may not vote at all, or for a 3rd party is even scarier.....it will put Heir Frumpf in the White House with his crazy mentality......hide the 'red' button....I truly dread the thought.....he has no freak'n clue....none what so ever....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 23, 2016, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: BallAquatics on July 23, 2016, 06:39:17 PM
LOL I'm not trying to bait you. LOL
It will probably be the first time we have a President who got elected not on their own merit, but because the voters disliked the other candidate more than the one they voted for. That's just sad any way you look at it.
Dennis
yes it, ...and to think about how many may not vote at all, or for a 3rd party is even scarier.....it will put Heir Frumpf in the White House with his crazy mentality......hide the 'red' button....I truly dread the thought.....he has no freak'n clue....none what so ever....
He thinks it's a freaking reality show. huh
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 23, 2016, 07:21:50 PM
He thinks it's a freaking reality show. huh
And in reality he's a freak show.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p417x417/13731582_10157865793680377_6332660646513541797_n.jpg?oh=736bfe52953c6d58617e18cd585dec7b&oe=5821980B)
(http://i.imgbox.com/Ac3Gx6DL.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13690786_1248703568521776_2641158509178439614_n.jpg?oh=bcab33250dc64d2c2d0ab8381e8aaaab&oe=583542DD)
Dennis
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13726777_913771996751_5671327797048655982_n.jpg?oh=f325a4898935241f2244b522a992f1c3&oe=57E86F2D)
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/danzcolorplus7039.jpg)
That's been old news for a good while.
(http://www.danzigercartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/danzcolorplus7038.jpg)
Over the last year there has been a recurrent refrain about the seeming bromance between Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. More seriously, but relatedly, many believe Trump is an admirer and would-be emulator of Putin's increasingly autocratic and illiberal rule. But there's quite a bit more to the story. At a minimum, Trump appears to have a deep financial dependence on Russian money from persons close to Putin. And this is matched to a conspicuous solicitousness to Russian foreign policy interests where they come into conflict with US policies which go back decades through administrations of both parties. There is also something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of evidence suggesting Putin-backed financial support for Trump or a non-tacit alliance between the two men.
Let me start by saying I'm no Russia hawk. I have long been skeptical of US efforts to extend security guarantees to countries within what the Russians consider their 'near abroad' or extend such guarantees and police Russian interactions with new states which for centuries were part of either the Russian Empire or the USSR. This isn't a matter of indifference to these countries. It is based on my belief in seriously thinking through the potential costs of such policies. In the case of the Baltics, those countries are now part of NATO. Security commitments have been made which absolutely must be kept. But there are many other areas where such commitments have not been made. My point in raising this is that I do not come to this question or these policies as someone looking for confrontation or cold relations with Russia.
Let's start with the basic facts. There is a lot of Russian money flowing into Trump's coffers and he is conspicuously solicitous of Russian foreign policy priorities.
I'll list off some facts.
1. All the other discussions of Trump's finances aside, his debt load has grown dramatically over the last year, from $350 million to $630 million. This is in just one year while his liquid assets have also decreased. Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks.
2. Post-bankruptcy Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin. Here's a good overview from The Washington Post, with one morsel for illustration ...
Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world.
?Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,? Trump?s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. ?We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.?
3. One example of this is the Trump Soho development in Manhattan, one of Trump's largest recent endeavors. The project was the hit with a series of lawsuits in response to some typically Trumpian efforts to defraud investors by making fraudulent claims about the financial health of the project. Emerging out of that litigation however was news about secret financing for the project from Russia and Kazakhstan. Most attention about the project has focused on the presence of a twice imprisoned Russian immigrant with extensive ties to the Russian criminal underworld. But that's not the most salient part of the story. As the Times put it,"Mr. Lauria brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians ?in favor with? President Vladimir V. Putin, according to a lawsuit against Bayrock by one of its former executives. The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a ?strategic partner,? along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt."
Another suit alleged the project "occasionally received unexplained infusions of cash from accounts in Kazakhstan and Russia."
Sounds completely legit.
Read both articles: After his bankruptcy and business failures roughly a decade ago Trump has had an increasingly difficult time finding sources of capital for new investments. As I noted above, Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks with the exception of Deutschebank, which is of course a foreign bank with a major US presence. He has steadied and rebuilt his financial empire with a heavy reliance on capital from Russia. At a minimum the Trump organization is receiving lots of investment capital from people close to Vladimir Putin.
Trump's tax returns would likely clarify the depth of his connections to and dependence on Russian capital aligned with Putin. And in case you're keeping score at home: no, that's not reassuring.
4. Then there's Paul Manafort, Trump's nominal 'campaign chair' who now functions as campaign manager and top advisor. Manafort spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor for Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close Putin ally. Manafort is running Trump's campaign.
5. Trump's foreign policy advisor on Russia and Europe is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom. If you're not familiar with Gazprom, imagine if most or all of the US energy industry were rolled up into a single company and it were personally controlled by the US President who used it as a source of revenue and patronage. That is Gazprom's role in the Russian political and economic system. It is no exaggeration to say that you cannot be involved with Gazprom at the very high level which Page has been without being wholly in alignment with Putin's policies. Those ties also allow Putin to put Page out of business at any time.
6. Over the course of the last year, Putin has aligned all Russian state controlled media behind Trump. As Frank Foer explains here, this fits a pattern with how Putin has sought to prop up rightist/nationalist politicians across Europe, often with direct or covert infusions of money. In some cases this is because they support Russia-backed policies; in others it is simply because they sow discord in Western aligned states. Of course, Trump has repeatedly praised Putin, not only in the abstract but often for the authoritarian policies and patterns of government which have most soured his reputation around the world.
7. Here's where it gets more interesting. This is one of a handful of developments that tipped me from seeing all this as just a part of Trump's larger shadiness to something more specific and ominous about the relationship between Putin and Trump. As TPM's Tierney Sneed explained in this article, one of the most enduring dynamics of GOP conventions (there's a comparable dynamic on the Dem side) is more mainstream nominees battling conservative activists over the party platform, with activists trying to check all the hardline ideological boxes and the nominees trying to soften most or all of those edges. This is one thing that made the Trump convention very different. The Trump Camp was totally indifferent to the platform. So party activists were able to write one of the most conservative platforms in history. Not with Trump's backing but because he simply didn't care. With one big exception: Trump's team mobilized the nominee's traditional mix of cajoling and strong-arming on one point: changing the party platform on assistance to Ukraine against Russian military operations in eastern Ukraine. For what it's worth (and it's not worth much) I am quite skeptical of most Republicans call for aggressively arming Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. But the single-mindedness of this focus on this one issue - in the context of total indifference to everything else in the platform - speaks volumes.
This does not mean Trump is controlled by or in the pay of Russia or Putin. It can just as easily be explained by having many of his top advisors having spent years working in Putin's orbit and being aligned with his thinking and agenda. But it is certainly no coincidence. Again, in the context of near total indifference to the platform and willingness to let party activists write it in any way they want, his team zeroed in on one fairly obscure plank to exert maximum force and it just happens to be the one most important to Putin in terms of US policy.
Add to this that his most conspicuous foreign policy statements track not only with Putin's positions but those in which Putin is most intensely interested. Aside from Ukraine, Trump's suggestion that the US and thus NATO might not come to the defense of NATO member states in the Baltics in the case of a Russian invasion is a case in point.
There are many other things people are alleging about hacking and all manner of other mysteries. But those points are highly speculative, some verging on conspiratorial in their thinking. I ignore them here because I've wanted to focus on unimpeachable, undisputed and publicly known facts. These alone paint a stark and highly troubling picture.
To put this all into perspective, if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction, combined with this much solicitousness of Putin's policy agenda, it would set off alarm bells galore. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. And yet Putin is not the CEO of an American corporation. He's the autocrat who rules a foreign state, with an increasingly hostile posture towards the United States and a substantial stockpile of nuclear weapons. The stakes involved in finding out 'what's going on' as Trump might put it are quite a bit higher.
There is something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence for a financial relationship between Trump and Putin or a non-tacit alliance between the two men. Even if you draw no adverse conclusions, Trump's financial empire is heavily leveraged and has a deep reliance on capital infusions from oligarchs and other sources of wealth aligned with Putin. That's simply not something that can be waved off or ignored.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-russia-connections
I don't believe it although I've heard it and know that Trump is only about Trump. I refuse to believe that even he would stoop so low.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 01:38:35 PM
I don't believe it although I've heard it and know that Trump is only about Trump. I refuse to believe that even he would stoop so low.
The man will do anything for a buck.....it wouldn't surprise me a bit....we'll see....if this can be written, then there must be other eyes watching him too..
Quote from: Mugwump on July 25, 2016, 01:51:49 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 01:38:35 PM
I don't believe it although I've heard it and know that Trump is only about Trump. I refuse to believe that even he would stoop so low.
The man will do anything for a buck.....it wouldn't surprise me a bit....we'll see....if this can be written, then there must be other eyes watching him too..
It would not surprise me it this is true.
Nobody should have breathed a word of it until there was proof. It would insure a win for Hilary if it's proven to be true. It will bite her in the ass if it's just a suspicion.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 03:06:34 PM
Nobody should have breathed a word of it until there was proof. It would insure a win for Hilary if it's proven to be true. It will bite her in the ass if it's just a suspicion.
Why will it bite her in the ass?.....she's not the one say'n anything about it, nor the DNC.....
Trump has already spoken about it. It's not important to the ill informed that Hillary has said nothing. They will put it on her.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
Trump has already spoken about it. It's not important to the ill informed that Hillary has said nothing. They will put it on her.
...nope....it's his boo boo to explain..he's a loner on this one....but the Frumpetts will still love him ...most are commies by nature anyway.... huh
They are not in any way commies. I have nothing against Communists other than the fact that that economic system has never worked on a large scale. If they are anything they lean toward Nazism.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 04:17:04 PM
They are not in any way commies. I have nothing against Communists other than the fact that that economic system has never worked on a large scale. If they are anything they lean toward Nazism.
..ok, that'll work too.... |^| |^| |^| |^|....Nazi's in Putin's hip pocket, right?
Could be. I won't believe it until it's proven to me.
NPR is all over this story. They have pointed toward things the tech people say is the way the Russians do it. I need proof. Someone needs to 'splain to me what the way the Russians do it in a way I and other normal people can understand it.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 07:01:11 PM
NPR is all over this story. They have pointed toward things the tech people say is the way the Russians do it. I need proof. Someone needs to 'splain to me what the way the Russians do it in a way I and other normal people can understand it.
...everyone has a posting/writing, etc style.....Russian techs do too....just like us......
I can understand that. I believe that I have a recognizable writing style. It's forceful yet kind. In person I'm kind but can be forceful. I rather like my style.
Trump has his style of speaking It hasmuch in common with Putin's style.
They will not change the minds of Trump supporters until they have proof and I don't know if they can ever get proof. I will have to withhold judgement for now. I don't want to believe even Trump would have sanctioned this although he has said that the admires Putin. I can see Putin having done it behind Trump's back because he wants Trump to win.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 07:46:30 PM
I can understand that. I believe that I have a recognizable writing style. It's forceful yet kind. In person I'm kind but can be forceful. I rather like my style.
Trump has his style of speaking It hasmuch in common with Putin's style.
They will not change the minds of Trump supporters until they have proof and I don't know if they can ever get proof. I will have to withhold judgement for now. I don't want to believe even Trump would have sanctioned this although he has said that the admires Putin. I can see Putin having done it behind Trump's back because he wants Trump to win.
...well, we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.....both candidates will get their Nat'l security briefings next week....
Al Franken is speaking to the DNC. Excellent speech.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 07:57:44 PM
Al Franken is speaking to the DNC. Excellent speech.
Cory Booker just knocked one out of the park.
I heard some guy speak who knocked out of the park. I think that he's from Newark NJ. I don't know if it is the guy you are referring to, Willie. I was in the bath tub and I never caught his name and I didn't recognize his voice.
OMG. Michelle Obama is speaking. I must put off sleeping until she has finished.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on July 25, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
I heard some guy speak who knocked out of the park. I think that he's from Newark NJ. I don't know if it is the guy you are referring to, Willie. I was in the bath tub and I never caught his name and I didn't recognize his voice.
Yes it was Liz. Cory Booker. Junior Senator from New Jersey.
Elizabeth Warren just spoke.
She is my favorite Democrat because I like her ideas.
However, she's a kind of quite speaker, not a shouter or really charismatic, unlike Bernie.
Also unlike Bernie, she has the details and can get things done in congress.
(http://65.media.tumblr.com/0ba8eea116f3f720a4d4dae4b74b40c5/tumblr_oav4d8M89H1qzft56o1_1280.jpg)
DNC live stream....
https://www.demconvention.com/ (https://www.demconvention.com/)
(http://65.media.tumblr.com/5cfaa553d32f267040f3160b445f7a70/tumblr_oaxqrrOHzo1qjg6rwo1_1280.png)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-j-zaremski/trumps-mental-disorder-it_b_10337952.html
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/a-neuroscientist-explains-trump-has-a-mental-disorder-that-makes-him-a-dangerous-world-leader/
http://bigthink.com/artful-choice/less-than-artful-choices-narcissistic-personality-disorder-according-to-donald-trump
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
Lol. I was listening to this just yesterday. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 28, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
Lol. I was listening to this just yesterday. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
|^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|......good minds think alike..... w!w
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 28, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
Lol. I was listening to this just yesterday. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
|^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|......good minds think alike..... w!w
This is them now. They no longer call themselves war but these are mostly the same guys. Lee Oskar is still with the group.
http://lowriderband.com/ (http://lowriderband.com/)
..yup...you're on it.... 8)
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 28, 2016, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on July 28, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 28, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
Lol. I was listening to this just yesterday. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
|^| |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|......good minds think alike..... w!w
This is them now. They no longer call themselves war but these are mostly the same guys. Lee Oskar is still with the group.
http://lowriderband.com/ (http://lowriderband.com/)
...nice....very nice....thanks
Shirts from the Democratic Convention:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/27/us/elections/democratic-convention-shirts-clinton-philadelphia.html?emc=edit_th_20160729&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/27/us/elections/democratic-convention-shirts-clinton-philadelphia.html?emc=edit_th_20160729&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0)
Quote from: BillT on July 29, 2016, 11:27:24 AM
Shirts from the Democratic Convention:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/27/us/elections/democratic-convention-shirts-clinton-philadelphia.html?emc=edit_th_20160729&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/27/us/elections/democratic-convention-shirts-clinton-philadelphia.html?emc=edit_th_20160729&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697&_r=0)
LOL...some real beaut's in there.... |^|
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754179_1059289167442308_2891978699274791461_n.jpg?oh=52624879cea7bf7a458180126cbf6376&oe=583525E9)
Watch out Hillary. The Donald announced to day that he was taking off the gloves. "no Mr. nice guy" he said. I heard the soundbite and laughed out loud.
A better strategy might be to reboot his brain before he tries any debates.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13654123_1195763217183397_3301592884262150434_n.png?oh=dbc90230687af3957b7b92b46aae8fc3&oe=58214664)
Read in the local newspaper yesterday that they will be judging pot from different growers at the upcoming State Fair.
Quote from: BillT on July 31, 2016, 02:12:15 PM
Read in the local newspaper yesterday that they will be judging pot from different growers at the upcoming State Fair.
cool beans..........a lot of judges will be needed tho......LOL...unless it's just a beauty contest?...but like 4H, I'll bet they auction off the 'stock' too....
Quote from: Mugwump on July 31, 2016, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: BillT on July 31, 2016, 02:12:15 PM
Read in the local newspaper yesterday that they will be judging pot from different growers at the upcoming State Fair.
cool beans..........a lot of judges will be needed tho......LOL...unless it's just a beauty contest?...but like 4H, I'll bet they auction off the 'stock' too....
Yeah some of the stuff now you take a couple hits and you are baked.
Quote from: ghonk on July 31, 2016, 10:30:03 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on July 31, 2016, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: BillT on July 31, 2016, 02:12:15 PM
Read in the local newspaper yesterday that they will be judging pot from different growers at the upcoming State Fair.
cool beans..........a lot of judges will be needed tho......LOL...unless it's just a beauty contest?...but like 4H, I'll bet they auction off the 'stock' too....
Yeah some of the stuff now you take a couple hits and you are baked.
In Oregon, they are ery regulated and have to put labels on what they sell (legally) which have the % (by weight) of THC (the main get high ingredient) and others such as CBD (which are sought for medical purposes).
I have seen some pot strains with >20% THC and maybe 0.1% CBD, and others with a fraction of1% THC and close to 20% CBD.
20% by weight means that 20% (1/5) of the weight of the plant part (partially dried) is that particular chemical. That seems like a lot to me, but these are only the buds, not the whole plant.
Pot has been getting stronger:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/pot-getting-potent/ (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/pot-getting-potent/)
Why Scientists Like Obama:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/politics/obama-to-leave-the-white-house-a-nerdier-place-than-he-found-it.html?emc=edit_th_20160801&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/politics/obama-to-leave-the-white-house-a-nerdier-place-than-he-found-it.html?emc=edit_th_20160801&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/obama-white-house-science-fair.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/obama-white-house-science-fair.html)
Quote from: BillT on August 01, 2016, 01:00:06 PM
Why Scientists Like Obama:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/politics/obama-to-leave-the-white-house-a-nerdier-place-than-he-found-it.html?emc=edit_th_20160801&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/politics/obama-to-leave-the-white-house-a-nerdier-place-than-he-found-it.html?emc=edit_th_20160801&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/obama-white-house-science-fair.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/obama-white-house-science-fair.html)
I like him too.....most won't admit it, but he'll be missed when he leaves office.........he's a class act |^|
Zika virus in Florida:
the prognosis:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/zika-has-gained-foothold-florida-unlikely-become-widespread-united-states?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-07-29&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=674310 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/zika-has-gained-foothold-florida-unlikely-become-widespread-united-states?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-07-29&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=674310)
Of course, Congress is dragging their feet on any funding for it.
Quote from: BillT on August 01, 2016, 01:28:33 PM
Zika virus in Florida:
the prognosis:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/zika-has-gained-foothold-florida-unlikely-become-widespread-united-states?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-07-29&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=674310 (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/zika-has-gained-foothold-florida-unlikely-become-widespread-united-states?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-07-29&et_rid=33537079&et_cid=674310)
Of course, Congress is dragging their feet on any funding for it.
...and their response........"thanks Obama"..........idiots
By Laurie Penny / medium.com
?America is great because America is good.?- Hillary Clinton.
?We dream of a brand new start-
But we dream in the dark, for the most part.?
? Lin-Manuel Miranda, Hamilton.
When I was a child, I always half-suspected that America wasn?t real. It had to be made up. It was too good and too simple a story to make sense in the everyday world of bus stops and breakfast cereals and adults who invariably let you down.
Living and sometimes working here as a grown-up has not changed my opinion. Right now, backstage at the Democratic Convention in Philadelphia, I can see the story being written in real time.
I?m writing this from the sopping wet-media refugee tent behind the perimeter, as the Star Spangled Banner echoes from a television screen somewhere out of sight. I?ve spent the past ten days having my eyes dazzled backstage at the biggest show on earth. The American political machine is trying to pilot its next season. Last week we had ten thousand terrifying Republicans going for a straight up tits-teeth-and-ammo exhibition, peddling fear and flag-waggery with a promise to rain down terrible vengeance on everything that irritates you. Like your immigrant neighbors. Like women who get above themselves. Like having to mind your manners.
This week it?s the Democrats, with their tired-looking cast-members repeating lines that sounded hokey the first time in between guest appearances by beloved celebrities all hoping the networks won?t cancel. They?ve got the script and they?ve got the stars, but they?re still trying to find the right narrative arc, because the American public?s disbelief is rapidly losing suspension. This is not politics, not as I know it at home. This is something else. This is pantomime.
There is a certain look that I?ve been sharing with other visiting foreign journalists this week and it is just that ? a look, sometimes with the hands spread in a horrified half shrug, because sometimes there are just no words, even when there have to be, you know, because that?s how we make rent.
How to possibly express the choreographed insanity of this brassy, breadless circus? How are we meant to actually communicate like human beings when we are trapped here, sweating on the floor of the dream factory as they hand out buttons and baseball caps plastered with empty slogans? It reminds me, more than anything else, of a music festival, down to the overpriced snacks, the complicated entry system, the constant impression that the weather is trying to kill you, and the way that normal rules are suspended as we pretend, briefly, that another world is possible. Specifically, world where the political process is simple and unsaleable, and strong leaders can change things for the better. A world where hope is feasible and our votes matter and we all go, as Philip Larkin once said, down the long slide to happiness, endlessly.
This is not how it?s done in Britain. Have you seen our politicians? George Osborne looks like he?s lied for so long his two faces can?t stand to be on the same head anymore and are frantically pulling apart. Boris Johnson is what would happen if you took Donald Trump out of the oven too early and left him to rot on an English lawn.
Then there?s our conferences. In Britain, party conferences are square, airless affairs in seaside towns where squashed-looking people in suits eat warm quiche at the back of policy roundtables and protesters get rained on outside. I have been to a number of these things, and their version of putting on a show usually comes down to parties in a local restaurant with the occasional glass of free buck?s fizz and bitchy political correspondents smoking outside, hoping the Deputy Leader will put in an appearance, or maybe, if we?re lucky, Tony Robinson off Time Team.
In America, by contrast, party is a verb.
American politicians know that they are in showbusiness and generally have the terrifying teeth and hair to prove it, although a few of them get to be character actors. The conventions are the press matinee. Sequins, sparkles, wild promises, your favourite celebrities, pizza costs seven dollars a slice, the stadium is lit, balloons fall like platitudes from the rafters, the camera zooms in on the delegates weeping with joy.
It?s all designed to make you feel good. The question is -what kind of good do you want to feel?
Donald Trump makes you feel good like a line of cocaine or an adulterous orgasm makes you feel good. His puffed-up pridemongering appeals to the cowed, craving animal inside every citizen that wants to vote for cake today and fuck the other guy. Why? Because it feels good, and because so little else does.
But the Democrats? They make you feel good.
They make you feel worthy, and pure, and moral, or at least like you could be all those things if you tried. They make you feel like you?re a good person for trying. They make you feel like liberalism is a position that makes sense. Everyone wants to believe that they are a good person. Americans want to believe it more, perhaps, than the rest of us, because their nation has done and continues to do some very bad things both in the world and to its own people in the name of a dream that is still a nightmare for millions.
America is still, fundamentally, a nation of puritans. That?s why this convention feels, at every stage, like a cross between a rock concert and a church revival. America is soaked in the language and practice of religion and wants to believe in its own goodness ? in right as well as might. The signs handed out to delegates on Day One of the DNC said ?Love Trumps Hate?. On Day Two, they said ?Do The Most Good?. Most of the taglines could have been lifted from the Bible ? the Good News version, not the King James. The Democrats are still pushing the Gospels on a suspicious, skeptical congregation that?s starting to lose faith in the hereafter. The Republicans, meanwhile, have run rabid and are reading straight from Revelations.
Of course, like every story in the religious mode, American presidential politics is a fairytale.
It?s fairytale designed?like all fairytales?to tell lost, frightened children that darkness can be overcome if they are well-behaved and listen to their elders. It?s a fairytale not just because no nation has a monopoly on morality, but because nation states themselves have never been the vector of human goodness and never will be. America The Brave is a bedtime story, the kind you tell to scared kids who know full well that the monsters are real. But for a moment there, I still wanted Obama to tuck me in.
President Barack Obama is a man put on this earth to make incremental social change exciting. I saw him speak last night on a ten-foot television screen across a bar filled with tired reporters from all over the world, and I found myself remembering what it meant, in 2008, watching the lifestream from a filthy front room in Turnpike Lane, to believe?in that vague, childlike way?in hope. Hope without affect, a thing with feathers but no bones. I felt my heart twitch under my ribs. I felt proud to be an American citizen. It took me ten full minutes to remember that I wasn?t one.
This is not practical politics. This is pure pageantry, pure mythmaking in a nation that has always survived by singing a song of itself. A nation of three hundred million souls and half a billion guns torn apart by violence and uncertainty, held together by pomp and circumstance and precious little else. What is on show at the conventions is very different from the politics that exist, day to day, month to month, as a material force in people?s material lives. The conventions are a bubble universe where we all, press and public and PR people and random rain-soaked flunkies, try to float on suspension-strings of disbelief. We know we?re being lied to. Those complaining about the lies have missed the point.
Of course the Democrats are lying to you, and of course that hurts more than the brazen untruthiness of Trump and his trashcan-fire rhetoric. What did you expect? What?s happening is here is more than just lies. What speaker after party-faithful speaker is doing, as they take the stage with the rosy-cheeks of actors carved in wood and worked by levers, is telling stories. Functionally, it?s the same thing, but telling stories is a larger and stranger thing than lying, in the way that war is a larger and stranger thing than murder.
Lying is wrong, but party politics is a project of public mythmaking and manipulation so enormous that it crushes the concept of falsehood. In the writer?s room of US politics, the scriptwriters have move beyond lies to the management of truth, the creation of a master story that can explain all the other stories, sweep them up, make us want to turn the page, knowing we can never truly choose our own adventure.
Sohere it is. Here?s the story the Democrats are selling. They cannot persuade America, or the world, that liberalism is plausible, that change will come in a way that makes a meaningful difference to millions of lives; what they are offering, in practical terms, is the vestige of democracy against the certainty of dictatorship. They are offering things not getting quite so much worse quite so fast. That?s a hard sell. Here?s how they?re going to spin it. Here?s the question on the table for American voters that will decide the fate of the world in the next decade.
What sort of person are you? Would you rather feel good, or do good? Can you swallow your pride, humble yourself and vote for the lesser evil?
People need something to believe in. Believing you can be a better person isn?t the worst option of the many on offer right now. Particularly as belief is, in its own way, a sort of magic. You can believe things so hard and so desperately that they come halfway true.
Hillary Clinton is not offering you a vision of a better future. She is offering you a vision of yourself as a better person, a person who can turn their face away from swivel-eyed, silent-screaming evil, a person who can vote to humble themselves like good parishoners before the altar of liberal equivocation and the drag-end of the American dream. As visions go, it?s viscerally disappointing. I know you wanted more. We all did. But the alternative is fear in the dark, and a horror story whose win conditions can only be negotiated downwards.
When I was a child, I thought America was made up. Now I know it for sure. I?ve been to the haunted house where hundreds of millions of ordinary people scream in dark corners for a story worth believing, clinging to what W.H. Auden called the ?euphoric dream? of everyday redemption ? ?Lest we should see where we are, lost in a haunted wood, children afraid of the night, who have never been happy or good.?
America has never been happy, or good. But if it stops believing that it can be, the whole damn world is going to suffer.
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/american-horror-story/
CONIGULU
Sacrifice
By Robert Kagan August 1
Robert Kagan is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing columnist for The Post.
One wonders if Republican leaders have begun to realize that they may have hitched their fate and the fate of their party to a man with a disordered personality. We can leave it to the professionals to determine exactly what to call it. Suffice to say that Donald Trump?s response to the assorted speakers at the Democratic National Convention has not been rational.
Why denigrate the parents of a soldier who died serving his country in Iraq? And why keep it going for four days? Why assail the record of a decorated general who commanded U.S. forces in Afghanistan? Why make fun of the stature of a popular former mayor of New York? Surely Trump must know that at any convention, including his own, people get up and criticize the opposition party?s nominee. They get their shots in, just as your party got its shots in. And then you move on to the next phase of the campaign. You don?t take a crack at every single person who criticized you. And you especially don?t pick fights that you can?t possibly win, such as against a grieving Gold Star mother or a general. It?s simply not in your interest to do so.
The fact that Trump could not help himself, that he clearly did, as he said, want to ?hit? everyone who spoke against him at the Democratic convention, suggests that there really is something wrong with the man. It is not just that he is incapable of empathy. It is not just that he feels he must respond to every criticism he receives by attacking and denigrating the critic, no matter how small or inconsequential the criticism. If you are a Republican, the real problem, and the thing that ought to keep you up nights as we head into the final 100 days of this campaign, is that the man cannot control himself. He cannot hold back even when it is manifestly in his interest to do so. What?s more, his psychological pathologies are ultimately self-destructive. (Disclosure: I was a guest speaker at a fundraiser for Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton last month; I have no role with her campaign.)
Robert Kagan is a neocon, who among others likes Hillary because she is expected to ramp up the wars they want.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/
Quote from: wallace on August 03, 2016, 05:03:56 PM
Robert Kagan is a neocon, who among others likes Hillary because she is expected to ramp up the wars they want.
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/
Well, she labeled him as such...and likely because of her sentiment regarding the Israeli and Palestine conflict...she's not fond of Hillary either because she doesn't appear to like any US moves/aid, etc to Israel....
I'll admit he leans farther right than most...but she's apparently not to fond of trump for his slant on middle east folks either...
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/donald-trump-anti-muslim-hysteria-and-hypocrites-who-enabled-his-rise (https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/donald-trump-anti-muslim-hysteria-and-hypocrites-who-enabled-his-rise)
The only thing that I don't like about Hilary is her hawkishness. She has admitted to having made mistakes. I hope that she has learned from her mistakes.
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/7ab8dd95a76830c39cb308808152fc8a/tumblr_obb6v4EWEK1vcpbzio1_1280.jpg)
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/9598a1e8fcca4d8781e29763d9216434/tumblr_obb0j4ezqo1vcpbzio1_1280.jpg)
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WASHINGTON, D.C. (The Borowitz Report)?A humanitarian crisis has been unfolding over the past week as Republican refugees seeking asylum have overrun the Democratic National Committee headquarters, in Washington, D.C.
D.N.C. staffers have confirmed that they were woefully unprepared for the masses of desperate Republicans who have shown up at the D.N.C.?s door, looking for safe harbor.
?These people have been brutalized for months and have decided to risk everything to save themselves and their families,? D.N.C. staffer Tracy Klugian said. ?When they tell you their stories, they are absolutely heartbreaking.?
Meg Whitman, who is sixty, said she left her entire life as a Republican behind after witnessing unspeakable horrors under the new G.O.P. regime.
Taking comfort from a blanket and a cup of coffee provided by D.N.C. staffers, Whitman appeared to be in a state of shock about where life under a failed state had brought her.
?I never thought I?d find myself in a place like this,? she said as she took in the unfamiliar surroundings of the D.N.C. headquarters. ?Still, anything has to be better than where I came from.?
When asked if she had any regrets about her decision to flee, Whitman choked back tears before responding. ?I had no choice,? she said. ?There is no respect for human life there.?
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Harvard Republican Club
Yesterday at 1:30pm ?
Dear Members and Alumni,
In every presidential election since 1888, the members and Executive Board of the Harvard Republican Club have gathered to discuss, debate, and eventually endorse the standard-bearer of our party. But for the first time in 128 years, we, the oldest College Republicans chapter in the nation, will not be endorsing the Republican nominee.
Donald Trump holds views that are antithetical to our values not only as Republicans, but as Americans. The rhetoric he espouses ?from racist slander to misogynistic taunts? is not consistent with our conservative principles, and his repeated mocking of the disabled and belittling of the sacrifices made by prisoners of war, Gold Star families, and Purple Heart recipients is not only bad politics, but absurdly cruel.
If enacted, Donald Trump?s platform would endanger our security both at home and abroad. Domestically, his protectionist trade policies and draconian immigration restrictions would enlarge our federal deficit, raise prices for consumers, and throw our economy back into recession. Trump?s global outlook, steeped in isolationism, is considerably out-of-step with the traditional Republican stance as well. The flippancy with which he is willing to abdicate the United States? responsibility to lead is alarming. Calling for the US? withdrawal from NATO and actively endorsing nuclear proliferation, Donald Trump?s foreign policy would wreak havoc on the established world order which has held aggressive foreign powers in check since World War II.
Perhaps most importantly, however, Donald Trump simply does not possess the temperament and character necessary to lead the United States through an increasingly perilous world. The last week should have made obvious to all what has been obvious to most for more than a year. In response to any slight ?perceived or real? Donald Trump lashes out viciously and irresponsibly. In Trump?s eyes, disagreement with his actions or his policies warrants incessant name calling and derision: stupid, lying, fat, ugly, weak, failing, idiot ?and that?s just his ?fellow? Republicans.
He isn?t eschewing political correctness. He is eschewing basic human decency.
Donald Trump, despite spending more than a year on the campaign trail, has either refused or been unable to educate himself on issues that matter most to Americans like us. He speaks only in platitudes, about greatness, success, and winning. Time and time again, Trump has demonstrated his complete lack of knowledge on critical matters, meandering from position to position over the course of the election. When confronted about these frequent reversals, Trump lies in a manner more brazen and shameless than anything politics has ever seen.
Millions of people across the country are feeling despondent. Their hours have been cut, wages slashed, jobs even shipped overseas. But Donald Trump doesn?t have a plan to fix that. He has a plan to exploit that.
Donald Trump is a threat to the survival of the Republic. His authoritarian tendencies and flirtations with fascism are unparalleled in the history of our democracy. He hopes to divide us by race, by class, and by religion, instilling enough fear and anxiety to propel himself to the White House. He is looking to to pit neighbor against neighbor, friend against friend, American against American. We will not stand for this vitriolic rhetoric that is poisoning our country and our children.
President Reagan called on us to maintain this, our shining city on a hill. He called on us to maintain freedom abroad by keeping a strong presence in the world. He called on us to maintain liberty at home by upholding the democratic process and respecting our opponents. He called on us to maintain decency in our hearts by loving our neighbor.
He would be ashamed of Donald Trump. We are too.
This fall, we will instead focus our efforts on reclaiming the Republican Party from those who have done it considerable harm, campaigning for candidates who will uphold the conservative principles that have defined the Republican Party for generations. We will work to ensure both chambers of Congress remain in Republican hands, continuing to protect against executive overreach regardless of who wins the election this November.
We call on our party?s elected leaders to renounce their support of Donald Trump, and urge our fellow College Republicans to join us in condemning and withholding their endorsement from this dangerous man. The conservative movement in America should not and will not go quietly into the night.
A longtime student of American democracy, Alexis de Tocqueville once said, ?America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.?
De Tocqueville believed in the United States. Americans are a decent people. We work hard, protect our own, and look out for one another in times of need, regardless of the color of our skin, the God we worship, or our party registration. Donald Trump may not believe in that America, but we do. And that America will never cease to be great.
The Harvard Republican Club
Yep it was easy to be proud to be a Republican back then.....
https://youtu.be/WiSyGi7IQvk
Dennis
Great speech. the Republican party was not always the way is is today. It's strange to me to see the Democrats united and the Republican party is such disarray.
I don't think the Democrats are all that united. There are a LOT of Democrats who don't like Hillary and are still very verbal about it. If she can't get into the White House this time, she will definitely never have a better opportunity or a lesser opponent.
Dennis
Quote from: BallAquatics on August 05, 2016, 06:52:27 PM
I don't think the Democrats are all that united. There are a LOT of Democrats who don't like Hillary and are still very verbal about it. If she can't get into the White House this time, she will definitely never have a better opportunity or a lesser opponent.
Dennis
There won't be a next time, Dennis....
The Dems aren't what they used to be either... if you're an old fashioned working class new-deal democrat there isn't much to like about Hillary.
I never was a fan of the republican party,and that's putting it mildly,but the GOP of the past are looking like Geniuses compared to what they have going on now.
Teabaggers ,and spineless sheep who are ONLY concerned about keeping their jobs, with a disgusting mentally ill man as their presidential candidate.
The Repubs have different views from mine. I think that they can be good. I try to keep an open mind.
Right now they are in the processes of destroying themselves but they will come to their seances after they loose the presidential election by a huge margin, which they will .
I don't think they will come to their senses,they will just try to do a better job of hiding their true agenda.
I disagree.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 05, 2016, 07:53:58 PM
I disagree.
..if they do, it'll be a long steep hill to climb....it took them almost 3 decades to get this way....and tougher changing back to anything similar to respectability...
Look at the state of the Democratic party in the 70's and later. Yes, it takes time...a long time but it's either regroup and learn to work together or fall apart.
Quote from: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 05, 2016, 07:53:58 PM
I disagree.
..if they do, it'll be a long steep hill to climb....it took them almost 3 decades to get this way....and tougher changing back to anything similar to respectability...
I'll see your 3 and raise it 3 more decades to Ike. ;D
Quote from: wallace on August 05, 2016, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on August 05, 2016, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 05, 2016, 07:53:58 PM
I disagree.
..if they do, it'll be a long steep hill to climb....it took them almost 3 decades to get this way....and tougher changing back to anything similar to respectability...
I'll see your 3 and raise it 3 more decades to Ike. ;D
....Good old Ike....I still have one of the buttons here somewhere...I helped pass them around town back then...
During a 33-year career at the Central Intelligence Agency, I served presidents of both parties ? three Republicans and three Democrats. I was at President George W. Bush?s side when we were attacked on Sept. 11; as deputy director of the agency, I was with President Obama when we killed Osama bin Laden in 2011.
I am neither a registered Democrat nor a registered Republican. In my 40 years of voting, I have pulled the lever for candidates of both parties. As a government official, I have always been silent about my preference for president.
No longer. On Nov. 8, I will vote for Hillary Clinton. Between now and then, I will do everything I can to ensure that she is elected as our 45th president.
Two strongly held beliefs have brought me to this decision. First, Mrs. Clinton is highly qualified to be commander in chief. I trust she will deliver on the most important duty of a president ? keeping our nation safe. Second, Donald J. Trump is not only unqualified for the job, but he may well pose a threat to our national security.
I spent four years working with Mrs. Clinton when she was secretary of state, most often in the White House Situation Room. In these critically important meetings, I found her to be prepared, detail-oriented, thoughtful, inquisitive and willing to change her mind if presented with a compelling argument.
I also saw the secretary?s commitment to our nation?s security; her belief that America is an exceptional nation that must lead in the world for the country to remain secure and prosperous; her understanding that diplomacy can be effective only if the country is perceived as willing and able to use force if necessary; and, most important, her capacity to make the most difficult decision of all ? whether to put young American women and men in harm?s way.
Mrs. Clinton was an early advocate of the raid that brought Bin Laden to justice, in opposition to some of her most important colleagues on the National Security Council. During the early debates about how we should respond to the Syrian civil war, she was a strong proponent of a more aggressive approach, one that might have prevented the Islamic State from gaining a foothold in Syria.
I never saw her bring politics into the Situation Room. In fact, I saw the opposite. When some wanted to delay the Bin Laden raid by one day because the White House Correspondents Dinner might be disrupted, she said, ?Screw the White House Correspondents Dinner.?
In sharp contrast to Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Trump has no experience on national security. Even more important, the character traits he has exhibited during the primary season suggest he would be a poor, even dangerous, commander in chief.
These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law.
The dangers that flow from Mr. Trump?s character are not just risks that would emerge if he became president. It is already damaging our national security.
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia was a career intelligence officer, trained to identify vulnerabilities in an individual and to exploit them. That is exactly what he did early in the primaries. Mr. Putin played upon Mr. Trump?s vulnerabilities by complimenting him. He responded just as Mr. Putin had calculated.
Mr. Putin is a great leader, Mr. Trump says, ignoring that he has killed and jailed journalists and political opponents, has invaded two of his neighbors and is driving his economy to ruin. Mr. Trump has also taken policy positions consistent with Russian, not American, interests ? endorsing Russian espionage against the United States, supporting Russia?s annexation of Crimea and giving a green light to a possible Russian invasion of the Baltic States.
In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.
Mr. Trump has also undermined security with his call for barring Muslims from entering the country. This position, which so clearly contradicts the foundational values of our nation, plays into the hands of the jihadist narrative that our fight against terrorism is a war between religions.
In fact, many Muslim Americans play critical roles in protecting our country, including the man, whom I cannot identify, who ran the C.I.A.?s Counterterrorism Center for nearly a decade and who I believe is most responsible for keeping America safe since the Sept. 11 attacks.
My training as an intelligence officer taught me to call it as I see it. This is what I did for the C.I.A. This is what I am doing now. Our nation will be much safer with Hillary Clinton as president.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html
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Dennis
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html
LOL
Reagan Republican: Trump is the emperor with no clothes
Frank Lavin
Editor's note: A former government official in Republican administrations since the presidency of Ronald Reagan, Frank Lavin is the CEO of Export Now, a company that helps U.S. brands sell online in China. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.
(CNN) I had the honor of serving as Ronald Reagan's White House political director from 1987 to 1989, so I can claim some insight on U.S. politics. My central conclusion on the 2016 race: It might not be entirely clear that Hillary Clinton deserves to win the presidency, but it is thunderingly clear that Donald Trump deserves to lose.
From this premise, I will do something that I have not done in 40 years of voting: I will vote for the Democratic nominee for president. The depressing truth of the Republican nominee is that Donald Trump talks a great game but he is the emperor who wears no clothes.
Trump falls short in terms of the character and behavior needed to perform as president. This defect is crippling and ensures he would fail in office. Trump is a bigot, a bully, and devoid of grace or magnanimity. His thin-skinned belligerence toward every challenge, rebuke, or criticism would promise the nation a series of a high-voltage quarrels. His casual dishonesty, his policy laziness, and his lack of self-awareness would mean four years of a careening pin-ball journey that would ricochet from missteps to crisis to misunderstandings to clarifications to retractions.
This decision is not an easy one. I proudly served in every Republican administration over the past 40 years: Ambassador and Undersecretary for George W. Bush, Commerce Department official for George H. W. Bush, and several White House and State Department assignments for Ronald Reagan beyond the political director role.
I have seen presidents work with difficult people and difficult issues. It requires a blend of strategic vision and tactical flexibility, combined with optimism and good humor. A president needs the thick skin to ignore criticism and the management discipline to stay fixed on goals. Trump, on the other hand, manages to pick fights that are unrelated to his goals.
The most pronounced example in this regard was his tasteless criticism of the family of deceased Army Capt. Humayun Khan. We owe that young man our gratitude for the ultimate sacrifice. And we owe his parents our respect for the dignity with which they reproached Mr. Trump for his grotesqueries.
Less poignant is a part of the Trump story that ought to have particular resonance with Republicans: his four business bankruptcies, more than a trivial matter for a party that prides itself on thrift, sound money, and prudential management.
The bankruptcies reflect a man who either lacks reasonable business judgment or reasonable business ethics. By themselves, four bankruptcies are pretty bad. But four bankruptcies and a private jet is deplorable. How can everyone lose money in the collapse of a project yet Trump flies away again and again?
In the early days of my startup, there was a moment when I could have shut the firm, declared bankruptcy, and walked away from my obligations, but I have employees, investors, clients, and customers -- all of whom rely on my commitment. I have a moral obligation to stand by people who are standing by me. No wonder so many Americans are skeptical of market economics if the system can be so easily manipulated by Trump.
Keep Trump comments in perspective
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, one bankruptcy may be regarded as a misfortune, but four begins to look like carelessness. We can suppose that Trump has every legal right to declare bankruptcies and to walk away with millions. And voters have every legal right to vote against him for those actions.
There are many issues on which Hillary Clinton and I are not in agreement. However on the core foreign policy issues our country faces -- alliance relationships, security commitments, and international engagement -- she comes closer to Republican views than does Trump. And Donald Trump makes me cringe. I am voting for Hillary. And I vote in Ohio.
Note: The author is the brother of Carl Lavin, Vice President of News and Opinion at CNN Digital.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/07/opinions/reagan-republican-trump-no-clothes-lavin/index.html
Borowitz Report
Trump Economic Plan Calls for Every American to Inherit Millions from Father
By Andy Borowitz , 11:52 A.M.
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DETROIT (The Borowitz Report)?At a speech in Detroit on Monday, the Republican Presidential nominee, Donald J. Trump, spelled out the details of his economic plan, which calls for every American to inherit millions of dollars from his or her father.
?There are people at my rallies, desperate people, desperate because they want jobs,? he told his luncheon audience at the Detroit Economic Club. ?Once they inherit millions from their father, they will never want a job again.?
Using an anecdote to show how his economic plan would work, Trump explained, ?A man with zero dollars who inherited forty million dollars from his father would become forty million dollars wealthier.?
?We are going to make America rich again,? he said.
Tearing into ?the failed economic policies of the Obama Administration,? he argued that children in China are inheriting money from their fathers at a much higher rate than American children are.
?We don?t win at anything anymore,? he said. ?We don?t win at inheriting.?
Trump?s plan for wealth creation drew strong praise from his team of economic advisers, including Ivanka, Eric, Tiffany, Barron, and Donald Trump, Jr.
http://time.com/4444125/trump-gop-security-experts/
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?The Republican nominee Donald Trump tore into the media on Thursday for what he called their ?extremely unfair practice? of reporting the things he says.
?I?ll say something at a rally and I look out and see all these TV cameras taking every word down,? Trump told Fox News? Sean Hannity. ?No one in politics has ever been subjected to this kind of treatment.?
?It?s unbelievable and, frankly, very unethical,? he added.
At a rally in Florida, the candidate lashed out at a TV cameraman whom he caught in the act of recording his words for broadcasting purposes.
?Look at him over there, picking up everything I?m saying, folks,? Trump shouted. ?Get him out of here.?
In his interview with Fox, Trump hinted that he might drop out of this fall?s televised Presidential debates if the media continues its practice of reporting the things he says.
?I?ve always said that I would be willing to debate if I?m treated fairly,? Trump told Hannity. ?But if the media keeps recording everything I say, word for word, and then playing it back so that everyone in the country hears exactly what I said, I would consider that very, very unfair.?
Soon there will be something called a "Trumpism". It will mean sticking you foot so far in your mouth that you choke on it.
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 11, 2016, 05:17:03 PM
Soon there will be something called a "Trumpism". It will mean sticking you foot so far in your mouth that you choke on it.
"Humpty Trumpy sat on a wall....." :P
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Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 11, 2016, 05:17:03 PM
Soon there will be something called a "Trumpism". It will mean sticking you foot so far in your mouth that you choke on it.
Joe Biden holds that distinction. Good old Foot In Mouth Joe.
This describes the major fault line in the Republican party:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/opinion/pieces-of-silver.html?emc=edit_th_20160812&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/opinion/pieces-of-silver.html?emc=edit_th_20160812&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
Here is the text:
Pieces of Silver
Paul Krugman AUG. 12, 2016
By now, it?s obvious to everyone with open eyes that Donald Trump is an ignorant, wildly dishonest, erratic, immature, bullying egomaniac. On the other hand, he?s a terrible person. But despite some high-profile defections, most senior figures in the Republican Party ? very much including Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, and Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader ? are still supporting him, threats of violence and all. Why?
One answer is that these were never men and women of principle. I know that many in the news media are still determined to portray Mr. Ryan, in particular, as an honest man serious about policy, but his actual policy proposals have always been transparent con jobs.
Another answer is that in an era of intense partisanship, the greatest risk facing many Republican politicians isn?t that of losing in the general election, it?s that of losing to an extremist primary challenger. This makes them afraid to cross Mr. Trump, whose ugliness channels the true feelings of the party?s base.
But there?s a third answer, which can be summarized in one number: 34.
What?s that? It?s the Congressional Budget Office?s estimate of the average federal tax rate for the top 1 percent in 2013, the latest year available. And it?s up from just 28.2 in 2008, because President Obama allowed the high-end Bush tax cuts to expire and imposed new taxes to pay for a dramatic expansion of health coverage under the Affordable Care Act. Taxes on the really, really rich have gone up even more.
If Hillary Clinton wins, taxes on the elite will at minimum stay at this level, and may even go up significantly if Democrats do well enough in congressional races to enable her to pass new legislation. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimates that her tax plan would raise the average tax rate for the top 1 percent by another 3.4 percentage points, and the rate for the top 0.1 percent by five points.
But if ?populist? Donald Trump wins, taxes on the wealthy will go way down; in particular, Mr. Trump is calling for elimination of the inheritance tax, which these days hits only a tiny number of really yuuuge estates (a married couple doesn?t pay any tax unless its estate is worth more than $10.9 million).
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So if you?re wealthy, or you?re someone who has built a career by reliably serving the interests of the wealthy, the choice is clear ? as long as you don?t care too much about stuff like shunning racism, preserving democracy and freedom of religion, or for that matter avoiding nuclear war, Mr. Trump is your guy.
And that?s pretty much how the Republican establishment still sees it. Getting rid of the estate tax is ?the linchpin of the conservative movement,? one major donor told Bloomberg?s Sahil Kapur. Gotta get those priorities straight.
Should we be shocked at the willingness of leading Republicans to make this bargain? Well, we should be shocked ? we should never, ever start accepting this sort of thing as normal politics. But we shouldn?t be surprised, because it?s just an extension of the devil?s bargain the economic right has been making for decades, going all the way back to Nixon?s ?Southern strategy.?
Don?t take my word for it; listen to the conservatives who have reached their limit. Recently Avik Roy, a leading Republican health-policy expert, had the personal and moral courage to admit what liberals (and political scientists) have been saying for years: ?In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.?
Just to be clear, I?m not saying that top Republicans were or are personally bigoted ? but that doesn?t matter. What does matter is that they were willing to curry favor with bigots in the service of tax cuts for the rich and financial deregulation. Remember, Mitt Romney eagerly accepted a Trump endorsement in 2012, knowing full well that he was welcoming a racist conspiracy theorist into his camp.
All that has happened this year is a move of those white nationalists from part of the supporting cast to a starring role. So when Republicans who went along with the earlier strategy draw the line at Mr. Trump, they?re not really taking a stand on principle; they?re just complaining about the price. And the party?s top leadership isn?t even willing to do that.
If this election goes the way it probably will, a few months from now those leading Republicans will be trying to pretend that they never really supported their party?s nominee, that in their hearts they always knew he was the wrong man.
But whatever doubts they may be feeling don?t excuse their actions, and in fact make them even less forgivable. For the fact is that right now, when it matters, they have decided that lower tax rates on the rich are sufficient payment for betraying American ideals and putting the republic as we know it in danger.
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I will always love Bernie.
I think the only way democratic socialism could have been reintroduced to the American mainstream after the cold war was to have a likeable grandpa with frizzy hair and a solid marriage. -and the fact that people are fed up.
I agree. It's because people are afraid of the word. They don't know what it means, but they think that it is evil huh
This reflects the depth of education (or the lack of it) in certain parts of the electorate.
Quote from: BillT on August 12, 2016, 08:10:15 PM
This reflects the depth of education (or the lack of it) in certain parts of the electorate.
Educate me...! I'm ready to listen.
Yes, explain to me how socialism is good.
Quote from: waterboy on August 13, 2016, 09:29:45 AM
Yes, explain to me how socialism is good.
...not thinking that he says it's 'good'....merely misunderstood.... huh huh huh....but huh
'Socialism' is one of those words that has been put to so many uses that it has become useless.
One little example: there are some socialists who would call the fire department a socialist institution, and others who would call it state capitalism. Ben Franklin just called it a good idea.
The primary misunderstanding about socialism is that it is the same or very similar to as communism.
Communism usually includes ideas like:
- all property belongs to the state
- uses state propaganda to enforce public support
- uses police/military coercion to make people do what they want
Socialism does not do these things (certainly not to the extent a communism state does.
Socialist ideas today might include things like:
- people can have private property
- a single payer health care system (as in the UK)
- a social security system (which the Libertarian party platform wants to eliminate)
- fire departments (as described above, first created by Ben Franklin)
- public libraries (also a Franklin invention)
- public schools
- more stuff (I am just waking up)
The key feature is a government run shared social investment for common good.
http://labs.time.com/story/can-time-predict-your-politics/
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 14, 2016, 08:51:39 AM
http://labs.time.com/story/can-time-predict-your-politics/
...right where I thought it to be.... |^|
I have to reject that test... its one-dimensional and based on too few questions. Here is a two-dimensional one that does a little better.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
Quote from: wallace on August 14, 2016, 10:50:47 AM
I have to reject that test... its one-dimensional and based on too few questions. Here is a two-dimensional one that does a little better.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
...aw...take it anyway, even if you don't like the answer....... huh
It's a fun test, Dan. It's nothing serious. I don't need a serious test to tell me where I stand. I'm me. I already know. I think that it's cool that they nailed me perfectly by asking questions like whether I prefer cans or dogs.
I would have to agree with Wallace.
I took the first test and came out mid-conservative (seems wrong to me), but I took his test and came out close to Gandhi.
Well I think these tests themselves are more interesting than the results.. lol
I like dogs and cats equally and there wasn't a dang button at the midpoint. The test puts me around 10:30 AM.
Politics isn't about left versus right; its about top versus bottom.
-Jim Hightower
There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos.
-Jim Hightower
Bill, I suspect that a majority of the American people would be in the Ghandi quadrant (me too). The telling thing is that our 'representatives' are clearly northeast of the people, a fact that is easily verified by polling data.
Quote from: wallace on August 14, 2016, 01:22:55 PM
Bill, I suspect that a majority of the American people would be in the Ghandi quadrant (me too). The telling thing is that our 'representatives' are clearly northeast of the people, a fact that is easily verified by polling data.
.....'Polling data'....LOL....don't get me started.... 2c2
Quote from: LizStreithorst on August 14, 2016, 08:51:39 AM
http://labs.time.com/story/can-time-predict-your-politics/
I am in between a liberal and moderate. I know that but I am also open to conservative ideas (ask my kids). Just don't try to shove it down my throat and make a rational argument.
Quote from: wallace on August 14, 2016, 10:50:47 AM
I have to reject that test... its one-dimensional and based on too few questions. Here is a two-dimensional one that does a little better.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
I reject the dog and cat question because while I prefer dogs to cats my favorite personal pet was a big black & white male cat (Maurice) that I had about 35 years ago. Kobe (my dog) comes in a close second for now.
I came out in the middle between liberal and moderate, too. I'm a dog person. I like cats to, but I am firmly in the dog camp. Who knows why but the test put me right where I belong.
*
When I put good, common sense answers in I got conservative. When I redid i and put in dumb ass answers I got liberal all the way.
The GOP is ass backwards on every issue,every one of them.
Time to gut congress of the teabaggers and like minded.
Borowitz Report
Trump Blames Bad Poll Numbers on Existence of Numerical System
By Andy Borowitz , August 15, 2016
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Borowitz-TrumpBlamesBadPollNumbersonExistenceofNumericalSystem-1200.jpg)
YOUNGSTOWN, OHIO (The Borowitz Report)?Donald J. Trump lashed out at a new target on Monday, blaming his bad poll numbers on the existence of the numerical system.
In sometimes rambling remarks at an outdoor rally in Ohio, the Republican Presidential nominee called the numerical system ?rigged? and unleashed a torrent of abuse on numbers themselves, calling them ?disgusting? and ?the lowest form of life.?
?It?s why I won?t release my taxes,? he said. ?They?re full of goddam numbers.?
While Republican candidates in the past have attempted to exploit their supporters? distrust of math, Trump is believed to be the first nominee to call into question the numerical system itself.
Behind the scenes, G.O.P. insiders fretted that, in attacking the very existence of numbers, Trump was veering wildly off message.
?He should be talking about Hillary Clinton, and instead he?s going off on integers,? one insider said.
Officially, aides remained upbeat about the campaign and denied reports that Trump was spending an increasingly large portion of each day angrily muttering to himself and chewing on paper.
WITH TRUMP CERTAIN TO LOSE, YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT A PROGRESSIVE CLINTON
...
As leading Republicans desert the sinking ship of Trump?s GOP, America?s two-party system itself has temporarily become a one-party system. And within that one party, the political process bears a striking resemblance to dynastic succession. Party office-holders selected Clinton as their candidate long ago, apparently determined to elevate her despite every possible objection, every potential legal problem. The Democratic National Committee helped out, too, as WikiLeaks tells us. So did President Barack Obama, that former paladin for openness, who in the past several years did nearly everything in his power to suppress challenges to Clinton and thus ensure she would continue his legacy of tepid, bank-friendly neoliberalism.
My leftist friends persuaded themselves that this stuff didn?t really matter, that Clinton?s many concessions to Sanders? supporters were permanent concessions. But with the convention over and the struggle with Sanders behind her, headlines show Clinton triangulating to the right, scooping up the dollars and the endorsement, and the elites shaken loose in the great Republican wreck.
She is reaching out to the foreign policy establishment and the neocons. She is reaching out to Republican office-holders. She is reaching out to Silicon Valley. And, of course, she is reaching out to Wall Street. In her big speech in Michigan on Thursday she cast herself as the candidate who could bring bickering groups together and win policy victories through really comprehensive convenings. ...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/13/trump-clinton-election-chances-moderate-policies-economy
New York City Parks: Department Reportedly Criticizes 'Unpermitted Erection' of Nude Donald Trump Statue
"NYC Parks stands firmly against any unpermitted erection in city parks, no matter how small," spokesman Sam Biederman reportedly said. Similar statues appeared in multiple cities Thursday.
LOL..... wfwf
The night that Obama and Hillary invented ISIS
It was late one night in the White House when Obama first came up with the idea for ISIS. He hadn?t been sleeping well. Michelle told him to take some deep breaths, have some hot milk, and rewatch Princess Bride, but he?d made it all the way to the Billy Crystal scene, and he was out of milk, and Michelle had started snoring. The snoring was loud and nasty and kind of wet-sounding, like a broken boat was giving birth to another boat. He had to get out of there.
First, he headed down to the Oval Office and tried to sleep on the couch, but it wasn?t long enough for his legs, and it smelled like generals? butts. For a long time, he just wandered around the West Wing alone. He was sad and tired and had the nervous feeling that he was doing something he shouldn?t. He peeked into people?s desk drawers and found pictures of cats and dogs and babies. He was thinking about stealing a Kind bar off one of his interns? desks, when suddenly a word appeared to him: ISIS. He grabbed a Post-It note and wrote it down. What was it? What did it mean?
It wasn?t until months later, at Coachella, that the idea started to take shape. Obama loved electronic music ? the beats, the lights, the DJs, the wonderful fans ? and every year, for just one day, the Secret Service allowed him to go to the music festival. They would hang back, and he would wear sunglasses, a flower crown, a neon tank top, and a tight European-style bathing suit and just dance. The people who did recognize him were too drunk and high to convince anyone of what they?d seen. (?Hey, bro, it?s the president!? ?Yeah, bro!?) The president would block it all out and surrender to the thumping, sick beat. He had done a tiny bit of molly with a French Canadian woman named Bonjour when the word ?ISIS? came back to him. Ever since he was a little boy, he had wanted to start an international terrorist organization of his own. He?d just never had the right idea. People had been starting terrorist groups for years, and he knew that if he wanted to break into the market, he needed some big new shtick. Wait. Of course. He went into his wallet and dug out the crumpled Post-It note. Yes. He would be the first American president to start an international terrorist organization, and it would be called ISIS. Bonjour was naked now, trying to bend a glow stick around one of her breasts. He gave her his flower crown, got in an Uber, and drove straight back to Washington. By the time he got home, he had a plan.
At first it was difficult to get people to believe he wasn?t kidding. ?I want to be the founder of a new terrorist group,? he?d tell them. They?d laugh and say something like, ?Hey, Mr. President, please don?t ever say that again publicly!? Obama felt like one of the characters trying to start a luxury denim business on the HBO show How to Make It in America. Then, finally, he decided the only person who could really help him was Hillary.
They were down in the kitchen one night eating Popsicles and staring into each other?s eyes when he asked if he could tell her a secret. Hillary laughed and said, ?Is it about how you?re really a terrorist?? He looked at her and said, ?Yes, actually.? She stopped eating her Popsicle. ?Donald Trump was right about you?? He nodded. ?About everything.?
He explained that he had actually been born in Kenya in 1919, and that he was 97 years old. He?d made an American birth certificate out of simple graph paper and aged it with tea bags. (?Honestly, it took me, like, 20 minutes.?) He explained that his parents told him from an early age that he should grow up to become the president of the United States so that he could eventually destroy the country from the inside.
?Isn?t that the plot of the first season of Homeland?? Hillary asked. Obama nodded. ?Kind of. Also a little bit of The Americans.?
No one had come close to guessing his secret, until Donald Trump. He didn?t know what had given it away. He?d been so careful. Had Donald Trump figured out the secret messages he was sending through his Portuguese water dog, Bo? ?Wait, what?? Hillary asked. She was starting to freak out. Obama explained that Bo was actually a supercomputer programmed to bark out messages in Morse code to terrorist organizations around the world, and he thought there was a chance that Donald Trump had seen that Bo?s eyes were really tiny LED screens. ?Did you know that when Bo barks,? Obama said, ?he?s just repeating the word dog over and over again in a robot voice??
Hillary was quiet for a long time. She had stopped eating her Popsicle, and the whole thing had just melted away. Now her fingers were stuck together, and it looked like she had one weird fish-hand. When she finally spoke, it was almost a whisper. ?You?re a 97-year-old Kenyan Muslim man who was sent here by your ancestors to destroy America?? Obama nodded. Hillary made a strange sound and cried out, ?I feel like I?m short-circuiting!? Obama did his best to comfort her. ?Bo does that sometimes. Then he?ll go outside and poop out a printer cartridge.?
Hillary was breathing hard. She walked the length of the kitchen, then walked the width of the kitchen, and then surprised herself by doing the first tumbling pass in Aly Raisman?s floor routine. Obama knew it was dangerous to tell someone his secrets, but it was such a relief. He felt light and loose. He felt 87 again. He took her hands into his. ?I?m sorry my fingers are stuck together like a fish-hand,? Hillary apologized. ?Do you mean a fin?? Obama asked. They both chuckled with their mouths closed. Hillary told him that she would probably need more time to process everything. Then he leaned down and said in a soft, strong voice: ?But I haven?t even told you the best part yet. I?m going to start my own terrorist group and call it ISIS.?
?Isis??
?No, ISIS. All caps.?
Hillary and Obama talked for hours that night. When they got tired of the kitchen, they moved outside to the Rose Garden with a six-pack, a joint, and, like, a ton of cheese. They lay with their backs on the wet grass and looked up into the hazy Washington sky as Obama told her everything he imagined for the new terrorist group, and she listened and laughed and gradually finished the beer. When she felt sleepy, she put her head just inside one of his arms, closed her eyes, and let the sound of his plans to annihilate the Western world wash over her like the hot summer air. She interrupted him once to point out how weird roses look at night. He said he didn?t want to talk about that and told her, in a cool way, to stop smoking all the weed. She interrupted again to show him that she could eat cheese and take a hit at the same time, but he was not as impressed as she thought he?d be. He told her ?like for real? they had to focus right now on starting a terrorist group, and she laughed for what felt like an hour and 45 minutes.
He was starting to regret telling her about ISIS, when suddenly she sat up, looked him right in the eye, and said, ?We?ll wait until I?m president, and then we will secretly destroy America together.? Her words shot through him. His heart was beating fast. That was it. That was the plan he had been waiting for, and it was beautiful. In the dim light, he could see dirt sticking to her face where the Popsicle had been. She looked scary, like Jodie Foster in Nell. A weirdly big piece of cheese fell out of her hair. He couldn?t stop smiling. For the first time in his life, he felt completely understood. They put their heads back in the grass, and he tried to remember the lyrics to ?Wonderwall? as she secretly ate the cheese that had been in her hair. Pretty soon, it was morning again.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/night-that-obama-and-hillary-founded-isis.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rouDIzhgVcY
Wow. That was superb. A guy like that could for sure win. Say nothing. Have a good face and a good hand shake. Bring out the positive and intimate that you can fix everything wrong. Well done.
Pretty fun, but the end makes him sound like a compromiser.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Zdx97A63s
Borowitz Report
Republicans to Pull Money from Trump Ads and Spend it on Alcohol
By Andy Borowitz , 10:46 A.M.
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?Calling it ?the best use of our resources at this time,? the Republican National Committee has decided to pull money originally earmarked for Trump campaign ads and spend it on alcohol instead.
According to the R.N.C. chairman, Reince Priebus, the decision to reallocate the funds from television advertising to alcoholic beverages came after a careful review of the polling in crucial battleground states.
?With about seventy days to go until the election, we had to consider what was the optimal way for us to get through those seventy days,? he said. ?We are confident that we have found that way.?
?The decision was unanimous,? he added.
In the crucial state of Pennsylvania, twenty thousand litres of vodka, gin, tequila, and an assortment of fine whiskeys are already being distributed to Republican Party offices.
?It?s questionable whether the ads we were thinking of buying for Trump would work,? Harland Dorrinson, the Pennsylvania G.O.P. chairman, said. ?We received the first shipment of alcohol this afternoon, and I can tell you that it?s already working.?
According to the most recent filing with the Federal Election Commission, after the outlays for wine and spirits, the R.N.C. will still have a million dollars in cash on hand, which will go to beer.
I would turn Republican for beer, but they won't be sending any to Mississippi. My state will joyfully vote overwhelmingly for Trump even if they're not drunk.
I believe that giving beer away to voters on election day (or maybe just before) used to be a common way for politicians to try to influence voters.
Sadly, times have changed.
Here's a weird one, Trump/Pence not yet on ballot in Minnesota:
http://www.kare11.com/news/politics/trump-pence-not-yet-on-mn-ballot/307472506 (http://www.kare11.com/news/politics/trump-pence-not-yet-on-mn-ballot/307472506)
Guess they fixed it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/)
Deadline was Monday.
Quote from: BillT on August 25, 2016, 02:40:51 PM
Guess they fixed it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/25/how-donald-trump-almost-missed-the-ballot-in-minnesota-and-what-that-says-about-his-campaign/)
Deadline was Monday.
barely......LOL...
http://candidates.sos.state.mn.us/CandidateFilingResults.aspx?county=0&municipality=0&schooldistrict=0&hospitaldistrict=0&level=0&party=0&federal=True&judicial=False&executive=True&senate=True&representative=True&title=U.S.+President+%26+Vice+President&office=0&candidateid=0 (http://candidates.sos.state.mn.us/CandidateFilingResults.aspx?county=0&municipality=0&schooldistrict=0&hospitaldistrict=0&level=0&party=0&federal=True&judicial=False&executive=True&senate=True&representative=True&title=U.S.+President+%26+Vice+President&office=0&candidateid=0)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13770366_1708967936030350_3262105882728066541_n.jpg?oh=a5d239b7efb79e88a7d1458900f211f6&oe=584337A6)
(https://pics.onsizzle.com/and-the-hard-ta-swallow-sandwich-of-boloney-w-russian-dresatn-3262669.png)
Quote from: Mugwump on August 30, 2016, 05:55:59 AM
(https://pics.onsizzle.com/and-the-hard-ta-swallow-sandwich-of-boloney-w-russian-dresatn-3262669.png)
Love it. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
When 110 Republicans decided not to vote for Trump:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/29/us/politics/at-least-110-republican-leaders-wont-vote-for-donald-trump-heres-when-they-reached-their-breaking-point.html?nlid=38810697&src=recpb (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/29/us/politics/at-least-110-republican-leaders-wont-vote-for-donald-trump-heres-when-they-reached-their-breaking-point.html?nlid=38810697&src=recpb)
Trump has already shown he is poor at:
personnel decisions,
being aware of facts,
now we can see how good he is at preparation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate.html?emc=edit_th_20160830&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate.html?emc=edit_th_20160830&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
Quote from: BillT on August 30, 2016, 04:34:58 PM
Trump has already shown he is poor at:
personnel decisions,
being aware of facts,
now we can see how good he is at preparation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate.html?emc=edit_th_20160830&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate.html?emc=edit_th_20160830&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
If he goes through with the debate. huh
Bedwetter?s Mother Sees Image of Donald Trump in Son?s Sheets
http://nationalreport.net/bedwetters-mother-sees-image-donald-trump-sons-sheets/ (http://nationalreport.net/bedwetters-mother-sees-image-donald-trump-sons-sheets/)
CINCINNATI, Ohio ? Like many youngsters, 6-year-old Rogelio Fuentes recently awoke to a pair of soggy pajamas and a set of wet bed sheets ? a normal part of childhood development, many doctors say. But thanks to a sharp-eyed mother on laundry day, Rogelio?s nocturnal incontinence has brought him the 15 minutes of fame promised to everyone by the late ?pop? artist, Andy Warhol.
The stain little Rogelio left in his wake bore an uncanny resemblance to the GOP?s presumptive nominee, Donald J. Trump, according to the child?s mother, Daisy.
This event is not number one, but number two in a series of Fuentes family excretory events calling attention to Trump. Nearly one year ago, Daisy claimed to see an image of Trump?s face in her own stool ? a story widely slammed as a tastelessly cruel, left-wing prank, perpetrated by Trump?s enemies, and some say, by the Clinton campaign.
Little Rogelio says he was embarrassed when his story first leaked, but now is proud that the tale has spread. These days, the first grader says he wants to be president someday, ?just like Donald Trump!?
?My sister Blanca, she cries all day,? said Rogelio, ?because she didn?t ?make a Trump? yet, so my mother told her to pray. I hope she makes one soon, because she feels very sad.?
?Everyone says we do these things to get revenge on Donald Trump because we?re Mexican immigrants, but it?s a stinking lie,? says Daisy.
The Fuentes family entered the country legally, and want ?the bad ones? to stay out, just as Donald Trump does.
?All good citizens should do their duty and make America great again! says Daisy.?
?Last year, my husband got all stressed out because too many people put candles next to my Trump dump. Finally, he got disgusted and flushed him down the toilet, and then he told everybody to get the hell out. He?s a Democrat, and he just doesn?t understand. It was sad, because the Ripley?s Believe it or Not people were coming the next day.?
Daisy, ?a part time seamstress? plans to stitch a flag from Rogelio?s sheet, and fly it from her front yard ?for all the world to admire,? right next to her ?Trump 2016? lawn sign.
?This is causing a little strain between me and my husband, but we made a deal. He?s coming with me to the Republican convention, and I?ll go with him to the Democrat convention over in Philly.?
?I guess we?ll both be holding our noses a little,? she added.
Borowitz Report
Obama Pays Mexico Five Billion Dollars to Keep Donald Trump
By Andy Borowitz , August 31, 2016
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)?President Barack Obama defended his decision on Wednesday to issue a payment of five billion dollars to Mexico to compel that nation to retain custody of Donald J. Trump.
The payment, which will be delivered to the Mexican government in hard American currency by Wednesday afternoon, will insure that Trump will remain in Mexico for the rest of his natural life.
?I have been assured by the government of Mexico that Mr. Trump will be well taken care of and, if he proves to be a productive member of their society, will be provided a pathway to Mexican citizenship,? Obama said.
While the transfer of funds to Mexico sparked howls of protest from some Trump supporters, it was hailed by congressional Democrats, as well as by over a hundred Republicans currently running for re?lection, including Arizona Senator John McCain.
The President bristled at the suggestion that paying Mexico to keep Trump was ?reverse ransom? and an extravagant use of taxpayer money. ?There is only one accurate word for this payment: a bargain,? he said.
(http://i.imgbox.com/DzLAVHBT.jpg)
September 1, 2016
Mexican President Says He Made Trump Pay for Lunch
By Andy Borowitz
MEXICO CITY (The Borowitz Report)?The war of words between Donald J. Trump and Mexican President Enrique Pe?a Nieto continued on Thursday as Pe?a Nieto vehemently asserted that he made the Republican Presidential nominee pay for lunch during his visit to Mexico City.
?As soon as we sat down to order, I made it very clear that I had no intention of paying for lunch,? Pe?a Nieto said. ?And when the check arrived, I made absolutely no move to pick it up.?
To support his claim, Pe?a Nieto tweeted out a photo of himself seated at a table with an aggrieved-looking Trump, who appears to be placing an American Express card on top of a restaurant check.
Responding to the Mexican President?s claim, the Trump campaign issued a statement of its own. ?As anyone who has read ?The Art of the Deal? knows, Donald J. Trump is a master negotiator,? the statement began. ?While he did pay for Pe?a Nieto?s lunch, he extracted a commitment from the Mexican President to pick up the check the next time they go to dinner. It?s a well-established fact that dinner is far, far more expensive than lunch. Yet again, Donald Trump entered into a negotiation and won big.?
Minutes after the Trump campaign released its statement, Pe?a Nieto took to Twitter again, where he indicated he had ?no intention? of ever having dinner with Trump.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14192713_1673071546345486_4033721519149554094_n.jpg?oh=776e924671979e62694676be6bc1f887&oe=58398C81)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14192734_1318839658127590_178656814813748213_n.jpg?oh=7855dbd7f30529a5ceac9e9497adbc00&oe=583C3BCD)
It seems that Trump is using campaign funds to line his own pocket. How you ask? By using his own facilities for political functions and to pay himself back out of the campaign funds at ridiculously inflated prices.
He is also using an older jet that burns fuel at the rate of $10,000 per hour. Other candidates have defrayed the cost of their chartered jets by letting the press corps ride along for a fee. But not Trump. And of course campaign funds are being used to pay for this consumption.
Can you imagine being trapped on a plane with crazy Donnie boy for several hours,terrifying.
I decided that it was time to replace my Bernie bumper sticker with a Hillary one. It won't make me popular down here in Trump country. Having a Bernie one is bad enough but having a Hillary one will be seen as consorting with Satan. Oh well huh I treat everyone with respect regardless of their political leanings. If they can't do the same with me, it's their problem.
Same as I did with my Bernie T shirt I bought the "pride" Hillary bumper because with all the rainbow colors it is the prettiest one. I'm not gay but I don't give a rat's if they think I am. I'm more concerned about Charlotte being harmed in some way because I'm for Hillary.
Bette Midler
"So, Donald Trump says he?s going to fire all of our military?s generals. Where is he going to get all new ones? The General Store?"
...nyuk nyuk nyuk...
I'm sure he can find as many qualified generals that meet his standards as he wants at Dollar General.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYtkQTe0V2g
..sound familiar... huh
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13102797_1598021133845366_4365495786493520982_n.jpg?oh=f34bd1f9e5ceaaf09991be4993588a0c&oe=587BF8F6)
LOL Trump is such an obnoxious contemptible person that he makes Hillary look good in comparison. LOL
Dennis
Funny, I was thinking just the opposite.
Quote from: waterboy on September 11, 2016, 10:18:58 AM
Funny, I was thinking just the opposite.
LOL..if it was the opposite, it wouldn't be funny.... w!w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3RnrIZxGyE
Yep,it's a sad situation. In this corner we have an arrogant ass, and in this corner we have a political big wig who thinks they are above the law..... great choices huh
Dennis
Borowitz Report
Poll: Unconscious Clinton More Fit to Be President Than Conscious Trump
By Andy Borowitz , September 11, 2016
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)?In a positive development for the Democratic nominee for President, a new poll released on Sunday reveals that likely voters find an unconscious Hillary Clinton ?substantially more fit? to be President than a conscious Donald Trump.
In a hypothetical matchup between a Clinton who has been rendered completely unconscious and a fully sentient Trump, voters chose an inert Clinton over an ambulatory Trump by a margin of nine percentage points.
A spokesperson for the Clinton campaign hailed the findings. ?We have every reason to believe that Hillary Clinton will be a fully conscious President,? the spokesperson said. ?But even if she is not, she is still the far better choice.?
The same poll revealed that a broad majority of voters found an unconscious Donald Trump more fit to be President than a conscious one.
Finally, when asked about the Libertarian Presidential candidate Gary Johnson, a significant number of voters were undecided as to whether Johnson was conscious or unconscious.
*********** CLINTON 2016 ***********
***AT LEAST SHE'S NOT MENTALLY ILL***
Quote from: BallAquatics on September 12, 2016, 06:07:15 AM
Yep,it's a sad situation. In this corner we have an arrogant ass, and in this corner we have a political big wig who thinks they are above the law..... great choices huh
Dennis
Yeah, its not pretty. Four more years of same old same old, or worse, while people get angrier... then we could end up with a demagogue capable of winning.
[/quote]
Yeah, its not pretty. Four more years of same old same old, or worse, while people get angrier... then we could end up with a demagogue capable of winning.
[/quote]
That's 8 more years. |^|
Same old same old isn't all that bad as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I'd like things to be better but I'm not up for a revolution.
Same old is fine for lots of people. If you are retired or have a settled job and finances. Many young people are looking at a future that is bleaker than ours was.... also same-old means a gradual worsening of the standard of living for working people and a more precarious job picture. So I'm not looking at same-old from a personal perspective, more at how it effects the future health of society.
Quote from: wallace on September 12, 2016, 02:59:16 PM
Same old is fine for lots of people. If you are retired or have a settled job and finances. Many young people are looking at a future that is bleaker than ours was.... also same-old means a gradual worsening of the standard of living for working people and a more precarious job picture. So I'm not looking at same-old from a personal perspective, more at how it effects the future health of society.
Yes, it's not too late for everyone to have a conscious now.....but this isn't new stuff because of Trump/Hillary.....we lost our government back in the Reagan days...too many big changes without considering the long term effect on the country....first off the top of my head...'trickle down economics'...but that alone is enough...
http://25logicalreasonstovotefordonaldtrump.com/ (http://25logicalreasonstovotefordonaldtrump.com/)
Quote from: Mugwump on September 13, 2016, 08:17:43 AM
http://25logicalreasonstovotefordonaldtrump.com/ (http://25logicalreasonstovotefordonaldtrump.com/)
|^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8KLYMx9kko
lol. I thought that I was the only one in the United States that didn't like him. I guess I'm just the only one in Mississippi wfwf
I remember those time too well. huh
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13615381_981541531964671_4345517149801517782_n.jpg?oh=510cd8b7e5659cd937f71c7c48aa3240&oe=587CE076)
A Republican Considers Fox News:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opinion/its-not-too-late-to-fix-fox-news.html?emc=edit_th_20160919&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opinion/its-not-too-late-to-fix-fox-news.html?emc=edit_th_20160919&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=38810697)
Its the usual arguments, but from a Republican.
Lol.....
Republicans can't get many votes talking about their real agenda, so they spent the last 20 or 30 years using propaganda services like Fox to fill people's heads with nonsense. Now they are wringing their hands over Trump, the poor devils. The Dems are partly to blame too... at the same time, they forgot that their party was the party of working people and lost much of their base.
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/e947bce4217963f46b43a1e0a68f6c19/tumblr_o46zgtIJ4k1qlu11ko1_400.gif)
To bad it was only a sign. ;D
Don't be that way. That's the way Trump is. It's better to go high than sink low.
I just put my Hillary bumper sticker on Charlotte. I left the Bernie sticker on her out of respect for Bernie.
Borowitz Report
Endorsement of Trump to Play Key Role in Christie?s Insanity Defense
By Andy Borowitz , 12:57 P.M.
TRENTON (The Borowitz Report)?If Chris Christie faces prosecution for an alleged role in the so-called Bridgegate scandal, his endorsement of Donald Trump could play a crucial role in an insanity defense, legal experts believe.
Harland Dorrinson, a defense attorney who has represented many politicians in high-profile criminal cases, believes that Christie?s endorsement of Trump earlier this year could persuade a jury that the New Jersey Governor is ?completely incapable of rational thought.?
?An insanity defense is always a long shot, because the bar for insanity is set very high,? Dorrinson said. ?Having said that, I believe that Christie?s endorsement of Trump easily meets that standard.?
If Christie is prosecuted, his defense team is likely to show the jury footage of Trump routinely humiliating the New Jersey Governor on the campaign trail. ?It will become abundantly clear that Christie endorsed Trump and received absolutely no conceivable benefit for doing so,? Dorrinson said. ?Legally speaking, the only word for that is insane.?
Additionally, Christie?s lawyers can argue that he begged Trump to name him his Vice-Presidential nominee, even after it was painfully obvious that the billionaire had no intention of doing so. ?Seriously, that was crazy,? Dorrinson said.
If Christie?s legal team succeeds with an insanity defense, the New Jersey Governor could avoid prison and be sent to a psychiatric facility instead, Dorrinson believes. ?As long as he?s being held someplace where he can do no harm, the people of New Jersey should be happy,? he said.
Very good.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CszjNccWYAAItsG.jpg)
Oh those well informed Ftrumpf people......
https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/10154541061806800/ (https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/10154541061806800/)
LOL,yep that's brain dead Donnie boy minions for you.
What a sick joke those people are. huh
Quote from: wsantia1 on September 21, 2016, 06:44:50 PM
What a sick joke those people are. huh
Rebels without a clue,but that's okay,they will go back to their caves until the next George Wallace III comes along.
I got teased at school when Wallace was running. There are plenty of knuckle-draggers out there... and they vote, some of them.
(http://s25.postimg.org/5nr464san/51vc_Zzi_VJVL_SS500.jpg)
Hochschild formulates a ?deep story? to explain the worldview of her tea party neighbors. Imagine that you are standing in a line of people that rises up over a hillside. On the other side of the hill is the American Dream. You work hard, sometimes in dangerous work. You lead a moral life, honoring family, country, community and God and make sacrifices, such as serving in the military. You are waiting patiently, but the line is stalling, even moving backward at times. When you look forward, you see people cutting in line. Some of them are new immigrants and people of color.
At the head of line, waving in the line-cutters, is Barack Obama and the liberal coastal elites. While calling you a racist, they side with the line-cutters. Heck, they even appear to value the lives of pelicans higher than your life and livelihood in the name of abstract environmentalism.
You are not a racist?you have worked all your life along side African-Americans and Latinos. But you resent it when people cut in line. And you don?t like it when liberals insult you because of your Christianity, commitment to marriage, and Southern culture. All this makes you feel like you are a stranger in your own land.
What the Tea Party and Donald Trump have to offer is they at least see you. You are not invisible. And they invoke memories of a time when you weren?t a stranger in your own land. They don?t dismiss you as racists and rednecks.
When Hillary Clinton calls you a ?deplorable,? you know that?s what the liberal elites secretly say behind closed doors. As Joe Bageant wrote in his marvelous book, Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America?s Class War, most liberals don?t have a clue how to engage with white working class communities. They presume people are too racist, dumb or manipulated by the Koch brothers to vote for their real economic class interests, rather than understand the economic, cultural and identity reasons why people might distrust the Democratic party establishment and liberal agenda.
Over three decades of stagnant wages and sluggish growth in rural and small town America have fueled the regressive populist moment. One solution is to get the stalled-out line moving again by raising wages, expanding opportunities, savings, wealth creation, and homeownership.
http://thenewpress.com/books/strangers-their-own-land
Quote from: wallace on September 23, 2016, 11:36:44 AM
Hochschild formulates a ?deep story? to explain the worldview of her tea party neighbors. Imagine that you are standing in a line of people that rises up over a hillside. On the other side of the hill is the American Dream. You work hard, sometimes in dangerous work. You lead a moral life, honoring family, country, community and God and make sacrifices, such as serving in the military. You are waiting patiently, but the line is stalling, even moving backward at times. When you look forward, you see people cutting in line. Some of them are new immigrants and people of color.
At the head of line, waving in the line-cutters, is Barack Obama and the liberal coastal elites. While calling you a racist, they side with the line-cutters. Heck, they even appear to value the lives of pelicans higher than your life and livelihood in the name of abstract environmentalism.
You are not a racist?you have worked all your life along side African-Americans and Latinos. But you resent it when people cut in line. And you don?t like it when liberals insult you because of your Christianity, commitment to marriage, and Southern culture. All this makes you feel like you are a stranger in your own land.
What the Tea Party and Donald Trump have to offer is they at least see you. You are not invisible. And they invoke memories of a time when you weren?t a stranger in your own land. They don?t dismiss you as racists and rednecks.
When Hillary Clinton calls you a ?deplorable,? you know that?s what the liberal elites secretly say behind closed doors. As Joe Bageant wrote in his marvelous book, Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America?s Class War, most liberals don?t have a clue how to engage with white working class communities. They presume people are too racist, dumb or manipulated by the Koch brothers to vote for their real economic class interests, rather than understand the economic, cultural and identity reasons why people might distrust the Democratic party establishment and liberal agenda.
Over three decades of stagnant wages and sluggish growth in rural and small town America have fueled the regressive populist moment. One solution is to get the stalled-out line moving again by raising wages, expanding opportunities, savings, wealth creation, and homeownership.
http://thenewpress.com/books/strangers-their-own-land
The whole piece is based on a racist opinion that thwarts any attempt to make rational sense of it all. It does seem almost written by a 'tea party' person. Some of the points are close to correct.....but the author lost me when he mentioned the current President as an enabler. That alone is not true, other than being black himself, he has played no part in what is written. You cannot lay the blame of decades of racial issues at his feet and claim they were his fault.
I am not trying to start an argument and I know this is a GOP, Trump bashing thread, but I thought this was a pretty good analogy. Just because you don't believe in illegal immigration or rioting in the streets doesn't make you a racist. If everybody in the line had the same moral fortitude and desire to achieve there would be no line cutters. It's the "get something for nothing" and the "me alone, screw the rest of you" people that are the problem. And the people that tolerate that behavior and even encourage it are the scourge of the land. I won't even mention our current presidents refusal to follow the immigration law.
Quote from: waterboy on September 23, 2016, 01:35:32 PM
I am not trying to start an argument and I know this is a GOP, Trump bashing thread, but I thought this was a pretty good analogy. Just because you don't believe in illegal immigration or rioting in the streets doesn't make you a racist. If everybody in the line had the same moral fortitude and desire to achieve there would be no line cutters. It's the "get something for nothing" and the "me alone, screw the rest of you" people that are the problem. And the people that tolerate that behavior and even encourage it are the scourge of the land. I won't even mention our current presidents refusal to follow the immigration law.
Dale, this thread has a bunch of Hillary bashing as well....LOL..there is no argument really, anyone is entitled to state his/her opinion. However, I just wanted to point out that the made up analogy in the essay doesn't completely fly.....fact is that we aren't accepting mass immigrants from the middle east as toted by some...
"immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region resided in the United States, representing 2.5 percent of the nation?s 41.3 million immigrants. Migration from the MENA region to the United States, motivated mainly by political instability in the region and economic opportunities abroad, began in the 18th century and has occurred in three phases."Plus trying to put the blame on the current regime is ludicrous. I believe in the 'American Dream' too, but there are many more things causing the economy to be in favor of the ultra rich, and corporations. We can go back as far as the great 'trickle down; economics...it does not work and has caused the middle class to take a major hit...companies relocating away from the US...and many more things have caused the middle class woes..
One of the reasons that I can not support Mr. Trump is because he lays the blame all the immigrants, and has rallied folks against them...calling them names, and blaming them for crime, and folks losing their jobs to them....balderdash....do you really that he will be a President of all the people?...no way...even his own party has recognized that they don't want him....that should tell folks something...
When the author above wrote this....
"At the head of line, waving in the line-cutters, is Barack Obama and the liberal coastal elites. While calling you a racist, they side with the line-cutters. Heck, they even appear to value the lives of pelicans higher than your life and livelihood in the name of abstract environmentalism."
..it was written to incite, nothing else.....this wasn't an essay, it's just plan propaganda....
Am I happy about the choices for President this year...no, not really....but I know that I won't be voting for a hate monger.....
Never try to rationalize the tea party,they are scum,all of them.
Just like MOST of crazy Donnie boys supporters,just ask one of them a question and see.
What a hate-filled individual you are. You are the reason many former members here no longer feel welcome and don't post anymore. You have done damage due to your opinions that you share way too often. Well done, if you had this in mind.
Barb, former member at Mugs
Was talking to my brother yesterday,who moved to NC a few years ago.
Not only do many people there see blacks and latinos as the one ones TAKING THEIR JOBS,but also them damn yankees.
Always looking to blame someone else for their failures and screwed up life.
Hey here's an idea,lay off the meth and prescription medication and maybe you will be able to pass a drug test.
Quote from: Barb on September 23, 2016, 05:46:12 PM
What a hate-filled individual you are. You are the reason many former members here no longer feel welcome and don't post anymore. You have done damage due to your opinions that you share way too often. Well done, if you had this in mind.
Barb, former member at Mugs
Are you talking to me,if you are you must be part of the tea clan ,or a crazy Donnie boy minion..Those would be the hate-filled ones you are thinking of.
Bye.
Greg, you're insensitive and you're a bully.
Quote from: ghonk on September 23, 2016, 05:49:07 PM
Was talking to my brother yesterday,who moved to NC a few years ago.
Not only do many people there see blacks and latinos as the one ones TAKING THEIR JOBS,but also them damn yankees.
Always looking to blame someone else for their failures and screwed up life.
Hey here's an idea,lay off the meth and prescription medication and maybe you will be able to pass a drug test.
...Uncalled for Greg.....chill....
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 23, 2016, 06:05:54 PM
Greg, you're insensitive and you're a bully.
..seems so.....what's up with all the hate, Greg?....not everyone agrees with everyone....
Quote from: LizStreithorst on September 23, 2016, 06:05:54 PM
Greg, you're insensitive and you're a bully.
LOL,i'm a bully,ARE YOU KIDDING ME.
You need to take look in the mirror,or better yet read some of your own posts,or ask some members at simply.
You're the one that has NO self control,just like crazy Donnie boy, i'm surprised you aren't one of his minions.
...topic now locked.....enough's enough............