Mugwump's Fish World

THE POND-THE FRESHWATER PLACE => Angelfish => Topic started by: Babers on January 23, 2020, 12:08:12 PM

Title: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on January 23, 2020, 12:08:12 PM
So I didn't stick to the plan of the 2 females on each side of the tank.

I decided to put 5 females in a 55 tank and added him. It's only been an hour and there's been a lot of commotion going one. We'll see what happens....
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
..the hormones must be crazy in there now....LOL...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Ron Sower on January 23, 2020, 02:22:19 PM
...woohoo... |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on January 23, 2020, 04:31:59 PM
Neato, hope you end up with lots of spawns.  You got two slates in there? Could get lucky and have him spawn with two females at once.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2020, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: waterboy on January 23, 2020, 04:31:59 PM
Neato, hope you end up with lots of spawns.  You got two slates in there? Could get lucky and have him spawn with two females at once.

... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on January 23, 2020, 06:11:55 PM
I actually do have a couple slates in there and the females are trying to establish their territories.  Crossing my fingers. The females seemed shocked that there's a male in with them lol.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on January 23, 2020, 06:16:54 PM
Quote from: Babers on January 23, 2020, 06:11:55 PM
I actually do have a couple slates in there and the females are trying to establish their territories.  Crossing my fingers. The females seemed shocked that there's a male in with them lol.

.... |^|...sounds promising..
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 09, 2020, 09:42:52 AM
There is a lot of commotion In the tank. Removed 2 underdog females. All 3 remaining females continue to chase each other. All papilla are slightly out. I added another slate so each female will have their own spot. I was hoping this will decrease the chasing. All females look like they want the male but the male can't focus on one female. They clean on and off but nothing yet.

Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
So after 3 weeks, I removed 2 more females and left the male with one of the females yesterday. The 2 were hanging out more compared to the other ones...it felt like forever.

Here's the papilla of the female yesterday....
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Here she is today....cleaning the slate a lot with the male. I think she's getting close...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
..like waiting in a maternity ward..... huh
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on February 12, 2020, 01:27:34 PM
She wants to spawn alright. Now just need to see if the male is interested enough to help.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on February 12, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
..like waiting in a maternity ward..... huh


Exactly how it feels like.

QuoteShe wants to spawn alright. Now just need to see if the male is interested enough to help.

Hope he does his part too...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 06:25:18 PM
She spawned but I'm not sure if he did his thing. Missed it. Grrr.was waiting all day, then I made supper and we ate and that's when she spawned. I think she's done. All I can tell is his papilla is out also.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 12, 2020, 06:42:41 PM
..fingers crossed..... |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: wsantia1 on February 12, 2020, 07:05:40 PM
Fingers crossed here too.  |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Ron Sower on February 12, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
..heck...I'll even cross my fingers, toes, legs and eyes too!...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 08:54:04 PM
LOL....Thanks guys! I've got everything crossed here also.

Pulled the eggs....we'll see how they turn out tomorrow morning if they turn white or not.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 12, 2020, 09:31:56 PM
Here they are (sorry for the smudges on the tank). No white so far after a couple hours.....but it's too early still.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 14, 2020, 06:30:46 PM
48 hours....approx 50% turned white...and I've got wiggler!!! You can see their little tails and some are hanging on side of slate. Not bad for their first time together.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Ron Sower on February 14, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
 :-X you
Quote from: Babers on February 14, 2020, 06:30:46 PM
48 hours....approx 50% turned white...and I've got wiggler!!! You can see their little tails and some are hanging on side of slate. Not bad for their first time together.
....congrats!...now the hard part starts!... growing them up! ...good luck...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on February 14, 2020, 11:07:04 PM
Neato.  |^|  |^|  |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 15, 2020, 04:29:04 AM
Most excellent !  |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 23, 2020, 08:14:28 PM
They spawned 8 days after the first one also. Same schedule as the albino Dantums. Got wigglers again.... :D
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 24, 2020, 04:32:15 AM
Quote from: Babers on February 23, 2020, 08:14:28 PM
They spawned 8 days after the first one also. Same schedule as the albino Dantums. Got wigglers again.... :D

.....cool beans!  :)
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 26, 2020, 12:51:33 PM
Just a picture of the male again after 6 weeks of having him here...bottom picture was day 1 when I got him
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 26, 2020, 01:09:54 PM
...sure likes your water, huh?.... :)....he looks great !
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: wsantia1 on February 27, 2020, 07:16:14 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on February 26, 2020, 01:09:54 PM
...sure likes your water, huh?.... :)....he looks great !

+1 I agree.  |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 28, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
He did get chunkier too. I think he's loving his space and the food too. Been feeding him 2-3 times a day of frozen foods and flakes alternating. They get about 30% water change daily too. Talking about being treated like a king   mim
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 28, 2020, 06:26:11 PM
Quote from: Babers on February 28, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
He did get chunkier too. I think he's loving his space and the food too. Been feeding him 2-3 times a day of frozen foods and flakes alternating. They get about 30% water change daily too. Talking about being treated like a king   mim

..what a stud..... w!w |^| w!w
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on February 29, 2020, 02:18:39 PM
Okay....my first spawn didn't make it. I had them floating in the parent tank in a 2.5 gal and forgot until all of them just died on 2nd hatch day that my temp water was 86 degrees (I kept my breeders at this temp). I also used H2O2 to hatch them (not sure if this was a factor). But I think I cooked them.

Second spawn...I pulled them and hatched them with MB at an independent tank. They did good and went freeswimming yesterday. Eating good so far.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on February 29, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: Babers on February 29, 2020, 02:18:39 PM
Okay....my first spawn didn't make it. I had them floating in the parent tank in a 2.5 gal and forgot until all of them just died on 2nd hatch day that my temp water was 86 degrees (I kept my breeders at this temp). I also used H2O2 to hatch them (not sure if this was a factor). But I think I cooked them.

Second spawn...I pulled them and hatched them with MB at an independent tank. They did good and went freeswimming yesterday. Eating good so far.

..good luck  |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on February 29, 2020, 11:15:40 PM
Great news!  Looks like you are back in the BSP business. That's a BSP/BSP pair right? I sure would be interested in what the babies turn out to be.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 01, 2020, 04:22:57 AM
Quote from: waterboy on February 29, 2020, 11:15:40 PM
Great news!  Looks like you are back in the BSP business. That's a BSP/BSP pair right? I sure would be interested in what the babies turn out to be.

....I'm following too...... :)
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 01, 2020, 10:06:09 AM
I hope so Dale....

Curious also what they will be. It's a descent batch so it should give us a good result of the mix, if any. ....thinking lighter and slightly darker ones....either D/D or D/g or D/+ mix.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: wsantia1 on March 01, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 01, 2020, 04:22:57 AM
Quote from: waterboy on February 29, 2020, 11:15:40 PM
Great news!  Looks like you are back in the BSP business. That's a BSP/BSP pair right? I sure would be interested in what the babies turn out to be.

....I'm following too...... :)

Me too. |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 05, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Third spawn....wigglers today. Descent hatch rate. Better than 2nd.

Second spawn continues to eat great. Still in the Angelsplus gallon rearing jar. 6th day freeswimming. Will plan to transfer to a 2.5 over the weekend. Getting crowded in the jar.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 05, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Babers on March 05, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Third spawn....wigglers today. Descent hatch rate. Better than 2nd.

Second spawn continues to eat great. Still in the Angelsplus gallon rearing jar. 6th day freeswimming. Will plan to transfer to a 2.5 over the weekend. Getting crowded in the jar.

..Super !.... |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 07, 2020, 07:17:08 AM
So....my guess on the babies...

If one parent has D/g and the other has D/g also:

D/D 25% darker Sealpoints
D/g 50% Standard Sealpoints
g/g 25% Platinum Sealpoints

All of the above we know what they look like.



But if one parent has D/g and the other has D/+: (both parents have dark fins, so not sure about this. But just in case a D/+ bg/bg dark fins didn't fade)

D/D 25% darker Sealpoints
D/g 25% Sealpoints
D/+ 25% Sealpoints
+/g 25% ????

I know what the first 3 looks like. But I'm wondering what the +/g bg/bg angels will look like? Do you guys think they will look like regular silvers? Will the silvers have greenish body with darker fins that can be differentiated with non-bg/bg? Or will the bg/bg be hidden?

Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 07, 2020, 08:18:25 AM
Quote from: Babers on March 07, 2020, 07:17:08 AM
So....my guess on the babies...

If one parent has D/g and the other has D/g also:

D/D 25% darker Sealpoints
D/g 50% Standard Sealpoints
g/g 25% Platinum Sealpoints

All of the above we know what they look like.



But if one parent has D/g and the other has D/+: (both parents have dark fins, so not sure about this. But just in case a D/+ bg/bg dark fins didn't fade)

D/D 25% darker Sealpoints
D/g 25% Sealpoints
D/+ 25% Sealpoints
+/g 25% ????

I know what the first 3 looks like. But I'm wondering what the +/g bg/bg angels will look like? Do you guys think they will look like regular silvers? Will the silvers have greenish body with darker fins that can be differentiated with non-bg/bg? Or will the bg/bg be hidden?

....is pb in there?..het?..Hom?.....I'm was thinking bg is epistatic to pb ?....yes/no?
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on March 07, 2020, 08:26:19 AM
I don't have any Idea what they would look like. Maybe a Silver with a green tint like some pinoys.  Yes I would like to know if the +/g,pb/pb,bg/bg is Blue or not. I am curious about everything about Seal Points.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 07, 2020, 09:53:34 AM
Edited.


Yes...both are pb/pb. I just simplified it to avoid confusion on the genes. Epistatic? Maybe there's an effect....bg without the blue looks like greener compared to the ones with blue. I don't think both gets masked in the presence on both in one fish...probably gets less pronounced?? You can definitely tell that there's blue on the bsp. 

Hmmm.....I think you're onto something Jon. We'll just have to wait if you can tell on a blue silver if it has bg/bg. Maybe it does mask it...

Green tint like pinoys....those would be nice Dale.

I'm getting confused the more I think about this thing...

At this time nothing too noticeable yet on the babies.

Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 07, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Quote from: Babers on March 07, 2020, 09:53:34 AM
Edited.


Yes...both are pb/pb. I just simplified it to avoid confusion on the genes. Epistatic? Maybe there's an effect....bg without the blue looks like greener compared to the ones with blue. I don't think both gets masked in the presence on both in one fish. You can definitely tell that there's blue on the bsp.  Hmmm.....I think you're onto something Jon. We'll just have to wait if you can tell on a blue silver if it has bg/bg.

Green tint like pinoys....those would be nice Dale.

I'm getting confused the more I think about this thing...

At this time nothing too noticeable yet on the babies.

...headlights on the fry ?
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 07, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
Too early...but I think I'm beginning to see it.

Quote from: Mugwump on March 07, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Quote from: Babers on March 07, 2020, 09:53:34 AM
Edited.


Yes...both are pb/pb. I just simplified it to avoid confusion on the genes. Epistatic? Maybe there's an effect....bg without the blue looks like greener compared to the ones with blue. I don't think both gets masked in the presence on both in one fish. You can definitely tell that there's blue on the bsp.  Hmmm.....I think you're onto something Jon. We'll just have to wait if you can tell on a blue silver if it has bg/bg.

Green tint like pinoys....those would be nice Dale.

I'm getting confused the more I think about this thing...

At this time nothing too noticeable yet on the babies.

...headlights on the fry ?
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 07, 2020, 10:32:11 AM
Here they are at 8 days freeswimming. I was trying to count and get an approximate. I think the ones that are on the foam sitting at the bottom (trying to scour the bbs still), I counted 80...didn't count the others anymore. At least that gives me an approximate number.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 07, 2020, 10:43:03 AM
 |^|...nice spawn... :)
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 07, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
He is doing really good knowing that this was his only second try.
I think making them pair up, instead of forcing the pair, did help a lot. Seems like the pair really have a good bond. They don't get aggressive towards one another at all, unlike others that sometimes gets too rough with its partner.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 09, 2020, 12:20:57 PM
Transferred the fry yesterday. I just transferred them to a 29 gal tank. So far doing good.

The new batch went freeswimming late last night. Started feeding this morning. So far good orange bellies.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on March 09, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Love those little Orange bellies. That always makes my day.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 09, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: waterboy on March 09, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Love those little Orange bellies. That always makes my day.

+1  |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 10, 2020, 10:39:20 AM
Video: 11 days freeswimming in 29 gal tank....and a preview of the next spawn....

https://youtu.be/ujTsAqKVFxo
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 10, 2020, 10:40:34 AM
Looking really sweet Joel.....nice job  |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on March 10, 2020, 03:03:15 PM
Nice.  Do I see black ones in there? If parents are both bg/bg how can you have black ones? Maybe my old eyes are failing.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 10, 2020, 03:12:16 PM
No black ones. Just shadows. Some are slightly darker though....probably the D/D's
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 14, 2020, 11:53:36 AM
Just an update on the fry. 15 days old freeswimming. I can see different shades of fry.

https://youtu.be/AKgDkuUCCT8
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: waterboy on March 14, 2020, 12:27:17 PM
Joel, I always put the slate in the jar so that the eggs face down, you have them facing up.  I thought it helped to keep things from settling on them. Maybe I am wrong and it doesn't make any difference as long as there is good circulation.
Looks like two nice batches.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 14, 2020, 12:46:34 PM
I used to do it facedown but it kept blowing the babies off the slate then they end up at the bottom of the container and sometimes they die. My experience anyways. But I've see people do it differently. Sometimes the air blowing directly on the eggs...I do mine on the side of the slate.
The keyword is good circulation of water like you said. As long as it's circulating and keeping things from settling on the slate/eggs,it's okay. This is what works for me.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 15, 2020, 08:51:14 PM
The headlight
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Mugwump on March 16, 2020, 04:05:33 AM
.....cool beans..... |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: wsantia1 on March 16, 2020, 05:05:39 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on March 16, 2020, 04:05:33 AM
.....cool beans..... |^|

+1
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on March 22, 2020, 08:15:29 AM
I think I know what the parents are now. I didn't count the babies but I know I can see Darker BSP, Regular BSP, and Platinum BSP. No silvers.

Safe to conclude that both parents are:
D/g - pb/pb - bg/bg (mix of veil and regular fin)
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on April 10, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
So...after looking at the babies again, the platinum Sealpoints do actually only have +/g (not g/g). Raiko is calling this as the "New Platinum".... Either one gold or no gold, does not make a difference. Per Raiko, the presence of g/g on a platinum angel will mask the bg, thus the fish will look like a regular platinum (no gray fins).

So...I think one parent is D/g and the other one is D/+.

.... huh  huh huh
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on April 10, 2020, 02:20:40 PM
Also decided to trim the dorsal of the male BSP. It was bothering me...

Here he is now...
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Barb on April 10, 2020, 03:39:30 PM
Wow, what a gorgeous fish!  BSP, is that Bulgarian Seal Point? I haven't seen them before this forum.
Barb
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: LizStreithorst on April 10, 2020, 04:43:20 PM
Much better.  It was bothering me, too.  You did a good job.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: wsantia1 on April 10, 2020, 05:48:35 PM
Great looking Angel and great trim job. |^| |^| |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on April 10, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
Yes Barb. I do love the color. Hard to get a good picture to showcase their shape and color. Just have to hit the angle just right.

Liz...I contemplated if I will do it, since I know the bend is not a genetic defect anyway. But just can't ignore it anymore.

Thanks Willie.
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Babers on April 11, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: Babers on March 05, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Third spawn....wigglers today. Descent hatch rate. Better than 2nd.

I moved the 3rd batch of spawn today to 2 40-gal breeders....I didn't count each kind...but I counted the total babies....437! Wow!
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: Barb on April 11, 2020, 07:56:23 PM
Jon would be proud of you Joel.  I have 9 of his beautiful Koi angels, they are well cared for here!
Barb
Title: Re: The search begins...
Post by: ghonk on April 12, 2020, 04:45:57 AM
Quote from: Babers on April 11, 2020, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: Babers on March 05, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Third spawn....wigglers today. Descent hatch rate. Better than 2nd.

I moved the 3rd batch of spawn today to 2 40-gal breeders....I didn't count each kind...but I counted the total babies....437! Wow!

Damn that's a nice size group.