Mugwump's Fish World

THE POND-THE FRESHWATER PLACE => Angelfish => Topic started by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 02:09:02 PM

Title: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 02:09:02 PM
Getting 4 more Albino Dantums from Angels Plus to cross with the 6 i got from Mike Troxell @ Gold Coast Aquatics. 

I assume they haven't had any new blood added to them since they  were developed.
So trying to avoid sibling crosses when possible.

Ideally I want to add from another 2 sources,which would give me 6 possible non sibling cross options.

A-B
A-C
A-D
B-C
B-D
C-D


Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 02:13:58 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 02:09:02 PM
Getting 4 more Albino Dantums from Angels Plus to cross with the ones i got from Mike Troxell @ Gold Coast Aquatics. 

I assume they haven't had any new blood added to them since they  were developed.
So trying to avoid sibling crosses when possible.

Ideally I want to add from another 2 sources,which would give me 6 possible non sibling cross options.

A-B
A-C
A-D
B-C
B-D
C-D

...I'd be pretty sure that most all are from the original pool.... huh..but if any did out crossed already they would be Mike's.....tho hard to out cross without really knowing what their makeup really is....?..I say Mike because at least he has workable altums......if they were truly in their to begin with... huh
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 03:23:07 PM
I doubt they have Altum blood.
I originally thought they were a high percentage blood Rio Nanay,with the albino gene coming from a domestic.

A guy in Europe,can't remember where, has some albino fish that he claims aren't related to Dantums.
They look very similar to if not identical to them,claims the parents are from 2 different batches of non albino    WILD CAUGHT fish.

If that is true then they are a natural albino/het albino Rio Nanay/Peruvian.
Which would mean that Dantums possibly are also.

Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 03:47:56 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 03:23:07 PM
I doubt they have Altum blood.
I originally thought they were a high percentage blood Rio Nanay,with the albino gene coming from a domestic.

A guy in Europe,can't remember where, has some albino fish that he claims aren't related to Dantums.
They look very similar to if not identical to them,claims the parents are from 2 different batches of non albino    WILD CAUGHT fish.

If that is true then they are a natural albino/het albino Rio Nanay/Peruvian.
Which would mean that Dantums possibly are also.

.....sounds like Corporate sales to me......seems that the Dantum original breeder can't remember where his came from either.....lotta memory loss going on over there... :),,,but good for $$$'s
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 03:59:37 PM
I also have a theory,which I posted about at TAF years ago,and got no reply to it.
That Dantums aren't albino,but rather amelanistic or something SIMULAR.

Which would explain why a cross to a albino domestic produces no albinos in a cross.

There have also been at least 3 reports of Dantums developing dark pigment.
Where they no longer even look albino,including in their eyes.

And then later LOSE the pigment  ,and appear albino again. 

Steve Rybicki had it happen to a group of his,and also Rob from TAF and TAS.
 

Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 03:47:56 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 03:23:07 PM
I doubt they have Altum blood.
I originally thought they were a high percentage blood Rio Nanay,with the albino gene coming from a domestic.

A guy in Europe,can't remember where, has some albino fish that he claims aren't related to Dantums.
They look very similar to if not identical to them,claims the parents are from 2 different batches of non albino    WILD CAUGHT fish.

If that is true then they are a natural albino/het albino Rio Nanay/Peruvian.
Which would mean that Dantums possibly are also.

.....sounds like Corporate sales to me......seems that the Dantum original breeder can't remember where his came from either.....lotta memory loss going on over there... :),,,but good for $$$'s

Danziger said HIS original  stock  was purchase at a show,if I remember correctly.
Think he said the seller was German or the show was in Germany,so it's POSSIBLE that there was a language barrier,which might be the reason for the confusion of what they were actually suppose to be.

The seller might have been calling them  Altum blood, but meaning Peruvian Altum,which Peruvians are commonly referred  as.     
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Albino Dantum Angelfish Mystery.





https://angelsplus.com/blogs/news/albino-dantum-angelfish-mystery
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Albino Dantum Angelfish Mystery.

https://angelsplus.com/blogs/news/albino-dantum-angelfish-mystery

...and it's all speculation.....remember David's 'trademark' bluff...... :)
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 22, 2019, 12:38:25 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Albino Dantum Angelfish Mystery.

https://angelsplus.com/blogs/news/albino-dantum-angelfish-mystery

...and it's all speculation.....remember David's 'trademark' bluff...... :)

What's speculation?
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on June 22, 2019, 04:35:10 AM
Quote from: ghonk on June 22, 2019, 12:38:25 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on June 21, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Quote from: ghonk on June 21, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Albino Dantum Angelfish Mystery.

https://angelsplus.com/blogs/news/albino-dantum-angelfish-mystery

...and it's all speculation.....remember David's 'trademark' bluff...... :)

What's speculation?

....as to what they are......
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 22, 2019, 01:59:16 PM
Oh okay,i though you might be saying speculation  if they   can gain  pigment where they no longer look albino,and then lose it again where they look albino.

Steve's and Rob's (TAF & TAS) Dantums both did.
I also sold a group and the buyer said his turned dark too,he accused me of selling him FAKE Dantums,and  tried to get paypal to refund him.

The origin will never be known now,if they are a natural mutation of a wild type fish,or a wild X domestic cross.

But there absolutely is something DIFFERENT about them.
Ability to gain a lose pigment to the degree they do,including the eyes.

And also either the albino gene being in a different location or something else going on as to why no albinos are produced in a regular albino cross,which has been proven. 


Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 26, 2019, 03:31:29 PM
Got them,1 has a broken anal fin from shipping which sucks.
Other then that I think they are awesome.

Going to call this Line B,for broken fin. ;D

My plan is to cross these with my other ones,Line A.
   
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 26, 2019, 03:32:08 PM
 
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on June 26, 2019, 03:33:11 PM
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on June 26, 2019, 04:56:57 PM
..good luck, Greg....let me know what happens... :)
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: GeorgeG on September 07, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I am not going to be any help but I have been growing some out some Albino Dantums also from Gold Coast Aquatics and I have a few that were sold on Aquabid. They are in a 180 and the oldest should be spawning but may all be one sex. The GCA are a little younger and may still be to young to spawn. I also have some medium size Albino Dantums from Angels plus on the way I am putting in a 100 gal tank.

I was thinking of maybe buying 2 of either the Atabapo or Orinoco Altum from Wattley and get another group of Dantums and grow them together and see what happens in a few years. I only have a 125 for a tank empty. My other 100 has some Albino Blue Pearlscales from Dave Carlson and wanted to mix a couple with the Dantums and hope for a pair.

Lots of Dreams but that maybe a year off they way things are going.
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 05, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
Well I think I finally    got a pair of Albino Dantums forming,almost 13 months old.
If so I will add the other 4  to my younger ones at about 9 months,hopefully shake things up and get a non related pair from them.
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 06, 2020, 01:13:28 AM
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: wsantia1 on January 06, 2020, 05:34:37 AM
Nice looking Dantums Greg. |^| |^| |^|
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on January 06, 2020, 05:39:34 AM
Quote from: wsantia1 on January 06, 2020, 05:34:37 AM
Nice looking Dantums Greg. |^| |^| |^|

..+1  |^|
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 06, 2020, 05:52:13 AM
Thanks Willie and Jon.
They all have their own SPOT,except when the lights go out and then they huddle together like buddies.  ;D
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 06, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Babers on January 10, 2020, 09:42:06 PM
Your dantums look great! Won't be long now. Hope you get tons of babies from them
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
They are being difficult.
I think I have ID'ed 2 females out of the 6,i'm GUESSING the other 4 are males by their behavior  and body shape.

2 POSSIBLE pairs look like they are trying to form.

Here is the problem,it looks like what I think are the males are trying PREVENT the females from spawning.

When they attempt to pick at the slates the other fish chases them away from it.
One that i'm guessing to be male even almost guards the slate. huh

At times they show pairing behavior,at other times what i'm calling males are just showing territorial behavior towards  the females.

Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on January 11, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
They are being difficult.
I think I have ID'ed 2 females out of the 6,i'm GUESSING the other 4 are males by their behavior  and body shape.

2 POSSIBLE pairs look like they are trying to form.

Here is the problem,it looks like what I think are the males are trying PREVENT the females from spawning.

When they attempt to pick at the slates the other fish chases them away from it.
One that i'm guessing to be male even almost guards the slate. huh

At times they show pairing behavior,at other times what i'm calling males are just showing territorial behavior towards  the females.

..have you tried pulling the 'pairs' to there own tanks?.....too many hormones popping in the pair off tank me thinks.. :)..introducing the females 1st to their respective tanks.... :)

..that way he will be going into her tank... ;)
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 11, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
They are being difficult.
I think I have ID'ed 2 females out of the 6,i'm GUESSING the other 4 are males by their behavior  and body shape.

2 POSSIBLE pairs look like they are trying to form.

Here is the problem,it looks like what I think are the males are trying PREVENT the females from spawning.

When they attempt to pick at the slates the other fish chases them away from it.
One that i'm guessing to be male even almost guards the slate. huh

At times they show pairing behavior,at other times what i'm calling males are just showing territorial behavior towards  the females.

..have you tried pulling the 'pairs' to there own tanks?.....too many hormones popping in the pair off tank me thinks.. :)..introducing the females 1st to their respective tanks.... :)

..that way he will be going into her tank... ;)


I was trying to let them pair in the tank they are in now,and let them spawm,hoping that it would bond the pair,and then move them to their own tank.

I am debating just pulling a likely pair and see what happens,if they can't get their act together soon that's what I will try.

My FEAR is that they will go at it after the move and beat the crap out of each other.
Martin has a pair that is showing aggression toward each other,or were at one time. 
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Mugwump on January 11, 2020, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on January 11, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
Quote from: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
They are being difficult.
I think I have ID'ed 2 females out of the 6,i'm GUESSING the other 4 are males by their behavior  and body shape.

2 POSSIBLE pairs look like they are trying to form.

Here is the problem,it looks like what I think are the males are trying PREVENT the females from spawning.

When they attempt to pick at the slates the other fish chases them away from it.
One that i'm guessing to be male even almost guards the slate. huh

At times they show pairing behavior,at other times what i'm calling males are just showing territorial behavior towards  the females.

..have you tried pulling the 'pairs' to there own tanks?.....too many hormones popping in the pair off tank me thinks.. :)..introducing the females 1st to their respective tanks.... :)

..that way he will be going into her tank... ;)


I was trying to let them pair in the tank they are in now,and let them spawm,hoping that it would bond the pair,and then move them to their own tank.

I am debating just pulling a likely pair and see what happens,if they can't get their act together soon that's what I will try.

My FEAR is that they will go at it after the move and beat the crap out of each other.
Martin has a pair that is showing aggression toward each other,or were at one time.

..interesting...you both have aggressive pairs......,,your dilemma makes sense now......
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 11, 2020, 06:43:52 PM
 I think Martin has 3 pairs from his group,i'm going to contact him and see how his are getting along now.

I had what originally looked like a pair,another male GANGSTERED the female.
The rejected male is the one that  now looks like it is trying to pair with the other female,but is also the one guarding the slate and keeping her away.




Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: Babers on January 12, 2020, 01:19:45 AM
If you separate the pair, you can try putting a divider between the male and female then remove after a week. Just to be cautious.
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 18, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
Pulled a pair of dantums 3 days ago,ZERO aggression so far.
Getting along much better then when I had them with the others.

Still have the other 4 in a 55,split the tank with an eggcrate divider with the likely pair on one side,hopefully they will get along as well as the other pair.
Title: Re: More Dantums.
Post by: ghonk on January 24, 2020, 09:28:54 PM
Currently have 2 pairs separated.
3 days ago one females tube was out and she looked frantic to lay,male still chasing her away from the slate when she tried to clean.

As a last resort I switched males,he initially tried to stop her from cleaning to,but she was persistent and soon after started laying.

Yep ,you guessed it, she ate them as she laid,^%$&@* ^%$*.
Looked like the male MIGHT have  been ready to make a pass, if she would stop gobbling  them up.

I had an appointment so couldn't stay for the show.
Hopefully she will lay again soon,and didn't like the taste to much. ;D