Mugwump's Fish World

THE POND-THE FRESHWATER PLACE => Angelfish => Topic started by: waterboy on April 13, 2019, 02:00:51 PM

Title: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 13, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
I have a BSP/Blue Silver Het for bg pair. She is a niece. I just moved a spawn from a 10 gallon to a 45 and did a count.
Bulgarian Seal Point - 7
Platinum Seal Point - 7
Lace Pinoy (D/+) - 5
Hybrid Pinoy (D/g) - 4
Blue Silver - 5
Platinum - 4
This is a typical spawn size for this pair, nowhere near the 2-3 hundred I am used to. This is the only pair I have spawning now.  Have lots of older ones, both hets and BSPs, but they seem very reluctant to spawn. Some are 14 months old.  I am beginning to worry that the Seal Point line may go away due to lack of breeding.  I have been putting "Possible pairs" together in spawning tanks but so far no action.  As long as this pair keeps spawning I am getting a steady supply of "Hopefuls", but they aren't going to keep it up forever.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 13, 2019, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: waterboy on April 13, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
I have a BSP/Blue Silver Het for bg pair. She is a niece. I just moved a spawn from a 10 gallon to a 45 and did a count.
Bulgarian Seal Point - 7
Platinum Seal Point - 7
Lace Pinoy (D/+) - 5
Hybrid Pinoy (D/g) - 4
Blue Silver - 5
Platinum - 4
This is a typical spawn size for this pair, nowhere near the 2-3 hundred I am used to. This is the only pair I have spawning now.  Have lots of older ones, both hets and BSPs, but they seem very reluctant to spawn. Some are 14 months old.  I am beginning to worry that the Seal Point line may go away due to lack of breeding.  I have been putting "Possible pairs" together in spawning tanks but so far no action.  As long as this pair keeps spawning I am getting a steady supply of "Hopefuls", but they aren't going to keep it up forever.

..yes, I agree.....they seem to be a real delicate strain......nerve racking delicate too....
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 13, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
They are just driving me crazy.  They look healthy and strong but just aren't interested in spawning. A few female-female het spawnings and that is it.  That must be common for the strain.  If I ever could get a couple spawning pairs I would do some crosses to try to get some strength back into the line. That and sell of the excess that I have. There have been quite a few imported and as far as I know no-one is selling any in the US. Besides Joel of course.  You would think there would be a lot more of them out there than there are.  Right now I think Joel and I are the only ones that have had spawns from them other than the lady in Oregon who eventually lost all hers.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 13, 2019, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: waterboy on April 13, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
They are just driving me crazy.  They look healthy and strong but just aren't interested in spawning. A few female-female het spawnings and that is it.  That must be common for the strain.  If I ever could get a couple spawning pairs I would do some crosses to try to get some strength back into the line. That and sell of the excess that I have. There have been quite a few imported and as far as I know no-one is selling any in the US. Besides Joel of course.  You would think there would be a lot more of them out there than there are.  Right now I think Joel and I are the only ones that have had spawns from them other than the lady in Oregon who eventually lost all hers.

...hopefully I'll join you two soon......today I saw his tube down a bit....and she freak'n has to be ready... ;)
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: wsantia1 on April 13, 2019, 07:04:27 PM
I hope you guys find out soon. I have a funky bunch of angels that have seal point traits that I know nothing about except that they came from Europe. They have a reddish hue but are definitely not Koi. huh
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 13, 2019, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on April 13, 2019, 07:04:27 PM
I hope you guys find out soon. I have a funky bunch of angels that have seal point traits that I know nothing about except that they came from Europe. They have a reddish hue but are definitely not Koi. huh

(D/Gm - S/S - bg/bg).... +/pb and pb/pb is possible.

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22550101_1573365496017597_7844392683196161442_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=13b379bf233dc2047118f2f474134273&oe=5D4D9D32)
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: wsantia1 on April 13, 2019, 08:10:01 PM
Hmmm!!!  I can't wait to breed them.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 14, 2019, 08:53:07 AM
Nice looking Angels.  Put me on the list for some babies when you get some.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 14, 2019, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: waterboy on April 14, 2019, 08:53:07 AM
Nice looking Angels.  Put me on the list for some babies when you get some.

...me too...me too.... :) |^| :)
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 14, 2019, 12:19:29 PM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 13, 2019, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: wsantia1 on April 13, 2019, 07:04:27 PM
I hope you guys find out soon. I have a funky bunch of angels that have seal point traits that I know nothing about except that they came from Europe. They have a reddish hue but are definitely not Koi. huh

(D/Gm - S/S - bg/bg).... +/pb and pb/pb is possible.

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22550101_1573365496017597_7844392683196161442_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=13b379bf233dc2047118f2f474134273&oe=5D4D9D32)

Could they be Gm/Gm,S/S,bg/bg?  I have some KOI, it would only take me two years to find out. LOL
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 14, 2019, 01:07:28 PM
I think you'll need a 'D' for that bsp look in the fins....
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 14, 2019, 11:12:57 PM
That is possible, but the black in the Gm might be enough. Might be a worth while cross if I ever get any to breed.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Babers on April 15, 2019, 05:36:58 PM
Only One way to find out...if you want to do the project...Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) s/s bg/bg....after you cross their babies. I think the bg/bg alone can give the fins a slightly darker tint...like the platinum Sealpoint. Or maybe like you said...the Gm will add to get darker fins.

I have a BSP that is paired up with one of the Tancho Super Red. That one will give me the D/gm s/s bg/bg (in both pb/pb and +/pb)....and albino counterparts.....after 2 years....if the fu&#ers decide to lay eggs...lol
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 15, 2019, 06:52:33 PM
Quote from: Babers on April 15, 2019, 05:36:58 PM
Only One way to find out...if you want to do the project...Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) s/s bg/bg....after you cross their babies. I think the bg/bg alone can give the fins a slightly darker tint...like the platinum Sealpoint. Or maybe like you said...the Gm will add to get darker fins.

I have a BSP that is paired up with one of the Tancho Super Red. That one will give me the D/gm s/s bg/bg (in both pb/pb and +/pb)....and albino counterparts.....after 2 years....if the fu&#ers decide to lay eggs...lol

...that would be Gm/Gm (or Gm/g) s/s bg/bg....right?
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Babers on April 15, 2019, 07:02:33 PM
Maybe...to retain the dark fins as they mature. I can only guess at this time.  2c2 huh

Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 15, 2019, 07:13:59 PM
Quote from: Babers on April 15, 2019, 07:02:33 PM
Maybe...to retain the dark fins as they mature. I can only guess at this time.  2c2 huh

....No...you wrote "".Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) s/s bg/bg..""

so a koi would have to be .Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/g) s/s bg/bg.....not  Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) S/S bg/bg...
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Babers on April 15, 2019, 07:33:16 PM
You're right. I thought you were talking about the gold part of the BSP to retain the dark fins as they get older. Has to be Gm/g (Gm/Gm)  to be a Koi is right. |^|
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 16, 2019, 04:14:42 AM
Quote from: Babers on April 15, 2019, 07:33:16 PM
You're right. I thought you were talking about the gold part of the BSP to retain the dark fins as they get older. Has to be Gm/g (Gm/Gm)  to be a Koi is right. |^|

... |^|
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 16, 2019, 08:41:19 AM
Quote from: Mugwump on April 15, 2019, 07:13:59 PM
Quote from: Babers on April 15, 2019, 07:02:33 PM
Maybe...to retain the dark fins as they mature. I can only guess at this time.  2c2 huh

....No...you wrote "".Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) s/s bg/bg..""

so a koi would have to be .Koi x Platinum Sealpoint. That would give you Gm/Gm (or Gm/g) s/s bg/bg.....not  Gm/Gm (or Gm/+) S/S bg/bg...

The lack of stripes has traditionally meant a S/S gene, but at this point I am not sure you even need the S/S gene.  I think the bg/bg gene pretty much does the same thing as the S/S. Neither of my breeders has a Stripeless gene and I get BSPs.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Babers on April 16, 2019, 09:59:24 AM
You will get BSP regardless of the stripeless gene....as long as you have a D and bg/bg.

The ones I have...stripes are still present, except it's reverse.

Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 19, 2019, 12:15:46 PM
Well the last original BSP I bought from Joel is no more.  They spawned yesterday and as I was writing the spawn number and date on the tank....Thunk...he hit the glass a ton. Don't know if he got spooked or was defending the spawn.  Unusual for him to defend as it is usually the female that attacks when I pull a spawn. I left him laying on the bottom still breathing as I thought he might recover. Went down this morning, he didn't recover.  No more baby BSPs for a while. 
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Mugwump on April 19, 2019, 02:30:27 PM
Dale...that sucks.....I'm so sorry to hear that....
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: Babers on April 19, 2019, 07:34:56 PM
Sorry to hear that Dale. That's terrible.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: wsantia1 on April 20, 2019, 06:37:44 AM
Sorry to hear that Dale.
Title: Re: Bulgarian Seal Points
Post by: waterboy on April 20, 2019, 09:40:09 AM
Thanks guys. Yea it is sort of a downer. But I have lots of his kids around all I have to do is wait until they start breeding, if they ever do. Definitely won't be selling any until (or if) I can get a couple good breeding pairs.